Mother Jones: IRAQ WAR is the true cause of the RECESSION!

[Dig]

Economy a Casualty of War
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/02/iraq-war-recession.html
By Nick Baumann February 29, 2008



vs.

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has blamed the Iraq war for sending the United States into a recession. On Wednesday, he told a London think tank that the war caused the credit crunch and the housing crisis that are propelling the current economic downturn. Testifying before the Senate's Joint Economic Committee the following day, he said our involvement in Iraq has long been "weakening the American economy" and "a day of reckoning" has finally arrived.

Stiglitz's contention that the war is causing the nation's economic woes has become an increasingly popular meme in Democratic circles. (And a source of indignation in Republican ones. Before Stiglitz's testimony, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said, "People like Joe Stiglitz lack the courage to consider the cost of doing nothing and the cost of failure.") Rep. Barbara Lee (D-Calif.), a leading anti-war voice and cochair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, is among leading Democrats who echo Stiglitz's view. "The war is the primary reason for this recession and we have to drum that home," she told me. Meanwhile, a coalition of progressive and anti-war groups—including MoveOn.org and Americans United for Change—announced a $20 million campaign to convince voters that the war is related to the nation's ongoing economic troubles, an effort that is headlined by former Senator John Edwards and his wife Elizabeth.

Polls show that voters trust the Democrats over the Republicans to manage both the Iraq War and the economy, so pitching these two issues as interconnected could make political sense. The war and the economy are undoubtedly linked, but there's a potential problem for anyone who claims the war led to a recession: Many economists say this isn't so.

"I hate the war; I'm happy to trash it," says Dean Baker, the codirector of the progressive-leaning Center for Economic and Policy Research. "There are lots of bad things you could say about it. It didn't cause the recession."

When President Bush said last week that "spending in the war might help with jobs" and that "this economy is down because we built too many houses and the economy’s adjusting," even well-known Bush-basher Paul Krugman had to concede the point. In a blog post, he wrote, "Hate to say this, but he’s right."

Baker also agrees with the president on the cause of the recession. "It's the housing bubble," he says, adding that there's "no ambiguity."

Desmond Lachman, an economist and resident fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, says that simply removing the billions of dollars a year in Iraq spending from the economy without replacing it could actually make the recession worse, because the spending drives demand and keeps people employed. "War spending helped the U.S. get out of the Great Depression," Lachman says.

The idea that Bush's war is linked with Bush's recession is obviously politically attractive for the Democrats. It's an argument they could use with fiscal and budgetary conservatives who might normally be inclined to vote Republican.

But arguing a causal relationship could be perilous. Faiz Shakir, the research director at the Center for American Progress, which is part of the "Iraq/Recession" coalition, said the groups behind the campaign don't intend to assert a cause-and-effect link between the war and the economy. Instead, he says, they will make the less controversial argument that the same money could be better spent at home. "We are certainly linking Iraq and the economy together, and we are talking about priorities," he says. "All of us believe there are numerous factors that have caused the recession. The Iraq War should be considered as one small piece of what has caused the recession, however it shouldn't be the overarching narrative of what is driving it." Just the same, at least one of CAP's partners in the campaign, MoveOn.org, makes explicit reference to what it calls the "Iraq recession." And Moira Mack, a spokeswoman for the campaign, has spoken of the war and the "resulting economic downturn."

To keep from being contradicted by otherwise friendly economists, anti-war activists ought to be careful they don't go too far and turn arguments about spending priorities into sound bytes about cause and effect.

[chris jones]

Sure, we agree wholeheartedly, it was the housing bubble that caused our problems. Though this as never happened in the history of mankind, this is the reason.
The war and genocide, the bombs and bullets, the stealth bombers, the robot seekers, the megabombs, did not cost a thing. They were gifts, and the trillions they speak of spent on our war are prefabricated lies.
I like that the  HOUSING BUBBLE. Who invented that may I ask. Anyone know, it sounds like very political rhetoric.

Gosh, gee, golly, so that the reason we ae going into depression.
Gee whillikers, I wondered why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not to worry, Ill just wiggle my flag my  and turn in all those dissenters, we will get back to normal once we are rid of them we will get things right in our land. All that is left to do is finish killing those monsters in Iraq, and bomb Iran, then Afghanistan, then maby Turkey or wherever as we are the only nation that kills for liberty and justice, the land of the free and the brave.
Once we rid the world of those people who do not agree with our president , we are completly free. Gota go and buy my kids some flags, there is a parade today. Oh gee, what fun this is.Im so patriotic. S.M. I'm getting goosebumps thinking aout it, a parade and all those jet flying overhead, the drums beating, WOW>

[Biggs]

I agree that without doubt the Iraq war has had a huge negative influence on the global economy and the US economy, it has cost trillions and has hurt the USA big time - pluis the rest of us with higher oil prices, increased international tensions etc etc.

But I am afraid that the Great Credit Bubble, more simplistically known as the housing bubble is indeed a real phenomena.

Both are true rather than it being an either or situation, which is why the US is going to be in recession (or wildly high inflation) for the next decade rather than merely one or two years.

[darsie]

The message is beat out day after day. The US is bankrupt.

Only the rapacious and unremitting plunder of other countries resources - carried out by the US government's current superior military power - will do anything at all - economically to address the US government's financial plight.

[Biggs]

The message is beat out day after day. The US is bankrupt.

Only the rapacious and unremitting plunder of other countries resources - carried out by the US government's current superior military power - will do anything at all - economically to address the US government's financial plight.

that does appear to be the hope of many of the pro-imperialists, however, it is a false hope as although money does go to oil and arms companies and create wealth and jobs there, it is taken away from other more important sectors of the economy with a net result of wealth destruction.

[yanaar]

local governance... alternative currencies.  Check out "Eco-village at Ithaca." 

[goulash]

amen to   the last post  i m poor and happy™

[Joe(WI)]

Ummm, question to all candidates excluding Mr. Paul, then why on earth do you disagree with your own parties and want continual war fiasco???

And to Mr. Paul, please refrain from and saying "I told you so." Nobody likes a sore winner.

[rick reuben]

Stiglitz and his co-author were on Democracy Now! Friday for the full hour- very good interview:
link to find transcripts and .mp3's
It may turn out that the rising cost of bread and gasoline might break some of the robots' loyalty to the 9/11 myth- if they can grasp that they transferred over $3 trillion to the military-industrial complex for a war and all they got back was a destroyed dollar, monster recession, and no measurable benefits for security ( but they got a police state ), *maybe* the drones will connect the dots, and start to figure out that the economy is their punishment for falling for the 9/11 hoax.

[Joe(WI)]

I hope so Sane, I asked if people in Dakkau actually continued to blame themselves for their plight, answer was they will always blame someone else.

I'd like Alex to interview a holocaust survivor, I bet that interview would be gold.

[Biggs]

and wasn't it money well spent to rebuild and pacify the nation making ti safe for the residents to go about their peaceful moderate lives.............................errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........................oh wait a minute - latest news................

Last Updated: Thursday, 6 March 2008, 19:35 GMT

Dozens killed in Baghdad attacks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7282145.stm


Baghdad map
At least 54 people have been killed by two bomb attacks in a shopping area in the centre of the Iraqi capital Baghdad, security officials say.

The blasts in the Karada district left another 130 people injured.

A witness at the scene described people holding body parts and a woman crying as rescuers searched for her sons.

Iraqi government figures this week showed that the number of Iraqi civilians killed in February was a third higher than in January.

It reversed six months of falling death tolls attributed to a surge in US troop numbers, the formation of anti-al-Qaeda militias by Sunni Arab tribes and a freeze in activities of the Mehdi Army militia loyal to radical Shia cleric Moqtada Sadr.

Teenagers

Thursday's blasts occurred within a few minutes of each other, police said.


Karada shopping district (file pic 2007)
Karada is a popular shopping area in central Baghdad


A roadside bomb exploded first in the predominantly Shia neighbourhood, which was followed a few minutes later by a bomb in a nearby rubbish bin, the Associated Press news agency reported, citing police and hospital officials.

Many of the victims were reported to be teenagers and young adults.

Hassan Abdullah, 25, told AP he was standing near the clothing shop he owns when the first explosion went off about 150 metres away.

He was walking towards the scene when the second explosion struck.

"I saw a leg and a hand falling near me as I was walking. The whole place was a mess," he said.

"Wounded people were crying for help and people started to run away."

[Dan]

Sure, we agree wholeheartedly, it was the housing bubble that caused our problems. Though this as never happened in the history of mankind, this is the reason.
The war and genocide, the bombs and bullets, the stealth bombers, the robot seekers, the megabombs, did not cost a thing. They were gifts, and the trillions they speak of spent on our war are prefabricated lies.

Hey now...., they were gifts.  From the Chinese.  Oh.....wait.....thats right.....they're not gifts, they're loans.  Well, it's only something like what, $billions$ a day?

We just built too many houses.  Too bad nobody told all of the homeless.

Dan

[Suriel]

What building is this?

[Biggs]

What building is this?

is it not one of Saddam's palaces or Mosques to commemorate the 'Whirlwind patriotic war' against Iran?

[mockingbird]

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of  all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

-Thomas Jefferson

As long as we have to keep paying interest on money we "borrow" from the evil ones, you can have a budget surplus of 500 billion, it won't matter because your local politician will tell you that it's going to be used to pay off the "debt".

Funny, growing up as a child, I didn't understand what all this "debt" was about, though now I am quite aware.

And they've been doing this inflation-deflation bit for years.  You have several amazing years beyond belief, and then you're as poor as dirt.  It happens every decade.

[Dan]

is it not one of Saddam's palaces or Mosques to commemorate the 'Whirlwind patriotic war' against Iran?

It is an amazing building.  Looks awesome.  Kinda creepy like a jail or something, but really cool too.

Speaking of amazing buildings......have you noticed that the most amazing and architecturally impressive buildings in modern times are being built by the Arabs?  Could tell a story about where the world is going as far as most powerfull people.

Dan

[chris jones]

Mother Jones.
No truer words were ever spoken. In fact I can never remember a war that did not deflate the economy. This to my knowlege is the first time we have gone to war illegaly, invaded illegaly, and killed hundred of thousands illegally and without the guidance of our constitution to add through lies and deceptions.
Vietnam started off in a advisory capacity by a treaty,, giving the profiteers, once JFK was killed room to manipulate, and escalate the war for fortunes, MIC.
Some have mentioned the housing bubble, I admit I am not up to date on Govermental finance, however if the fed. reserve was involded, my question is answered.

[Biggs]

the invasion of the Philippines 100 or so years ago was similar in some ways, but 'only' left 200,000 - 300,000 dead so was much smaller than Iraq

[Kregener]

Rest assured, our economic woes began WAY before our current crop of problems:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.

Alexander Tytler


This is a friggin' blueprint for what has happened to a once great Republic, and it was already underway when our grandfathers were supping on breastmilk.

[Dan]

People forget what it means to stand for freedom with every passing generation.  I did not have a rough childhood by any means, but my son is not gonna have it as bad as I did.  That mentality of caring for our children is what accounts for the downfall of great nations really.  I will shelter my child from the evilness of the world and he will grow up happy.  People do not realize that sheltering children make them ignorant to the struggles of life and the requirements of freedom.  Unfortunately, freedom has a price.  And I am not talking about the bullshit price we have heard all of our lives, you know, the fight for freedom, 8 thousand miles away in order to keep your "homeland" safe and free.  I am talking about founding father type prices.  I am talking about having the balls to stand up for what is right instead of what is safe and easy.  I am talking about taking on the powers that be in order to make a better life for your children.  That is the way people can stay free and still teach their kids the value of freedom and liberty.  No one life is more important than a nation that is free.
Once enough people realize this, then the revolution can proceed.

Dan