Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?

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worcesteradam

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The Haavara Agreement was an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933. The agreement was finalized after three months of talks by the Zionist Federation of Germany, the Anglo-Palestine Bank (under the directive of the Jewish Agency) and the economic authorities of Nazi Germany. The agreement was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement

For some reason no numbers are given.
1 Why?
2. Could this explain the disappearance of some Jews? Or not?

EvadingGrid

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2015, 12:55:06 PM »
I just read that, interesting link. I've heard of it before, but only as a fleeting reference.

Anyway, thought this fragment was worth reading.

 In 1940, representatives of the underground Zionist group Lehi met with von Hentig to propose direct military cooperation with the Nazis for the continuation of the transfer of European Jews to Palestine.

Oh, and in answer about numbers, I suspect not very many immigrants as the £1,ooo Sterling a head price was a stupid amount of money in the 1930's.

I looked it up.
Typical Earnings 1930's £150-200 a Year ( semi skilled normal man )
House price, nice 3 bed house large amount of land by american standards, £500
Interest Rate 2%, 10% deposit and loans limited to only 3 x salary.

So your looking at the price of 2 houses for the price of one ticket to dust and flies in 1930's palestine.

Guess not many people except for the Elite, would cough up for a ticket.


Very interesting topic .



worcesteradam

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 01:52:02 PM »
I have since found an estimate for numbers

Quote
The Transfer Agreement rescued some 60,000 German Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Transfer_Agreement

EvadingGrid

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 02:03:25 PM »
The figures come from Edwin Black, he is know for writing "IBM and the Holocaust"

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 03:14:12 PM »
sort of related: (interesting documentary)
As a side note it is interesting that the Nazi's interest in north Africa had a lot to do with the gold france (from Rothschild banks) had been shipped south into N. Africa and so the Nazi's were not so interested in Palestine so much   


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X45W1-XFn_g
HaDira - The Flat (2011 film German)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z94u_5qLxXU


From SS Official to Coke Executive - Leopold Von Mildenstein (on right)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2071620/reviews
The Flat More at IMDbPro »

Arnon Goldfinger's most recent documentary The Flat (best documentary awards at the Jerusalem and Haifa film festivals) starts as a typical family story. A few weeks after the director's grandmother dies the family starts looking into the things accumulated in her Tel Aviv flat. The apartment is full of objects gathered through a full life, and as it gradually empties and light starts penetrating the shady corners, details from a hidden past start to emerge. As many other immigrants coming from Europe Gerda and Kurt Tuchler had gathered not only things from a past time and an old country, but also photos and documents of a life that brought them from the Berlin between the two wars to Palestine which was to become the State of Israel.

Soon we learn that the Tuchlers seemed to be the kind of immigrants who kept not only memories and nostalgia, but a strong attraction and relationship with the old country. An intriguing story completely unknown to the third generation starts to uncover from the drawers and boxes left in the flat – photos, letters, newspapers from Nazi Germany and one of the strangest coins that ever existed, with a Magen David on one side and a swastika on the other.

The Tuchlers were friends with a family of high Nazi dignitaries named von Mildenstein, they traveled with them to Palestine after the Nazis came to power and before settling here definitively, and the trip was described in details by Leopold von Mildenstein in the German press of the time under the title 'A Nazi travels to Palestine'. Despite the fact that the story was researched and mentioned in the German and Israeli press after the war, the family knows close to nothing about it.

The film describes the process of gradual discovery which is not void of surprises, as they soon learn that the Tuchlers and the Mildensteins continued their friendly relations after the war, despite the fact that von Mildenstein seemed to have been quite an important figure in the Nazi regime, and related to the fate of the Jews (he was the one who recruited Eichman and preceded him in the position of responsible of the Jewish affairs). How much the Tuchlers knew about the activities of their German friend during the war and what these really were remains in part a mystery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_von_Mildenstein
Leopold Itz, Edler von Mildenstein (30 November 1902 – November 1968[1]) was an SS officer of the 1930s and 1940s who is remembered as a leader of the Nazi Party's support during the 1930s for the aims of Zionism.
...
Like the Haavara Agreement, Mildenstein's 1933 visit to Palestine and the medal to commemorate it were later sometimes used by anti-Israel authors to argue that there was a relationship between Nazism and Zionism
...
Goldfinger discovers that Mildenstein joined Goebbels Ministry of Propaganda in 1938. Mildenstein apparently worked as press officer for Coca Cola in West Germany until the public Eichmann hearings, in which Eichmann mentions him as "the specialist for the Jewish affairs
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

worcesteradam

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2015, 03:44:01 PM »
Really interesting find there Tahoe.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 04:25:39 PM »
Really interesting find there Tahoe.

thanks ...  here's a reference to the gold ... the Nazis were major thugee thieves ... once they had control of  their enemies assets in Germany/Austria then Poland, then Netherlands, then France , they were not much interested in Zionism (unless there would be large amounts of gold in Palestine or the ark of the covenant )  ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dakar
The Battle of Dakar, also known as Operation Menace, was an unsuccessful attempt in September 1940 by the Allies to capture the strategic port of Dakar in French West Africa (modern-day Senegal).
...
De Gaulle believed that he could persuade the French forces in Dakar to join the Allied cause. Much would be gained by this. Another Vichy French colony changing sides would have great political impact. Also the gold reserves of the Banque de France and the Polish government in exile were stored in Dakar; and the port of Dakar was far superior as a naval base to Freetown, Sierra Leone, which was the only Allied port in the area

| - - -

also:

http://libertyparkusafd.org/lp/hancock/CD-ROMS/GlobalFederation/Global%20-%2064%20-%20Trading%20With%20the%20Enemy%20%E2%80%93%20the%20Nazi-American%20Money%20Plot.html
Trading With the Enemy: the [SWISS} Nazi-American Money Plot
By Charles Higham
New York: 1983
...
   Early in 1940, McKittrick traveled to Berlin and held a meeting at the Reichsbank with Kurt von Schroder of the BIS and the Gestapo. They discussed doing business with each other's countries if war between them should come.

     Morgenthau grew more aggravated by McKittrick and the BIS as the war in Europe continued, but did not insist he be withdrawn. He was forced to rely upon Treasury Secret Service reports rather than upon Cochran for information on the BIS's doings.

He learned that in June 1940, Belgian BIS director Alexandre Galopin had intercepted $228 million in gold sent by the Belgian government to the Bank of France and had shifted it to Dakar in North Africa and thence the Reichsbank and Emil Puhl.
...

see http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/historys-biggest-robbery-nazis-stole-europes-gold/
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

worcesteradam

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2015, 11:10:35 AM »
More population movements of the time

Quote
The Nazi–Soviet population transfers were a series of population transfers between 1939 and 1941 of tens of thousands of ethnic Germans and ethnic Russians[citation needed] in an agreement according to the German–Soviet Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Demarcation between Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–Soviet_population_transfers

Numbers moved in total estimate given by wikipedia is 1,880,000

Quote
The Soviet advance into Poland in 1945 resulted in the ethnic German settlers being evacuated or fleeing from their "new homes" (in which Hitler had resettled them in 1939) to areas even further in the west to escape reprisals from the advancing Red Army. Considering that they had only been living in these homes for about 5 years at most, this was almost seen as a second forced resettlement for them (after the first in 1939) albeit under different circumstances. But this time practically all of them had to leave their belongings behind.

By 1950, a total of approximately 12 million Germans had fled or been expelled from east-central Europe into the areas which would become Allied-occupied Germany and Austria. Some sources put the total at 14 million, including migrants to Germany after 1950 and the children born to expelled parents. The largest numbers came from territories ultimately ceded to Poland and the Soviet Union (about 7 million), and from Czechoslovakia (about 3 million).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–50)

These numbers again are on a massive scale.
Could they have contributed in anyway to the holocaust numbers.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2015, 11:21:35 AM »
More population movements of the time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi–Soviet_population_transfers

Numbers moved in total estimate given by wikipedia is 1,880,000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–50)

These numbers again are on a massive scale.
Could they have contributed in anyway to the holocaust numbers.

The question is at the end of the war where was to food going ? Who was getting it ... the last priority in the Nazi's mind would be the prisoners .  Also the plan of the final solution seemed to purposely waste these people away while getting as much work out of them as possible.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/gcpol10.htm):

“Whereas according to the standards of the Physiological Committee of the Section of Hygiene of the League of Nations a hardworking man ought to receive in 24 hours about 4,800 calories and an average working man more than 3,600 calories, the prisoners at Auschwitz were getting at most from 1302 up to 1744 calories for 24 hours! 1744 calories daily represent a little less than the basic conversion of food into energy of a grown man, or in other words a little less than the amount needed by a man resting in a lying position, covered and motionless. A man who works, nourished in such a way is burning up his own tissues in order to cover the amount of energy expended. This inevitably results in the wasting away of his organism in a manner dangerous to life.

The diet of the prisoners working very hard outside the camp possessed such a calorific value. The prisoners who were working in the camp and whose work was also undoubtedly hard were getting at most 1302 calories for 24 hours, which was much below the amount necessary for the preservation of life when lying in bed.

The above given data explains in full why the prisoners of the Auschwitz concentration camp were dying in masses after a short period of time, and only those who had the chance of getting stolen food, or were getting parcels of food from their families at home, could preserve their life. All the other prisoners were doomed to destruction
”.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

worcesteradam

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2015, 12:08:20 PM »
Possibly true. I tend to think many were taken by train into the Soviet Union and disappeared.

Just a note: Interesting to compare the wiki Holocaust entry to the wiki Dekulkization entry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization

Is one just overblown or is the other one just neglected.
It sort of shows who won the war, I feel

worcesteradam

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2015, 11:08:46 AM »
Benjamin Netanyahu blames Haj Amin al-Husseini for the idea to exterminate the Jews, not Hitler.

Quote
Israel's Netanyahu stirs outrage by linking Palestinian cleric to Holocaust

If there is one place where the facts of the Holocaust are rarely contested, it is Israel. On Wednesday, however, public debate raged over comments by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who claimed that a key Palestinian cleric was a driving force behind Adolf Hitler’s attempt to exterminate the Jews.

Addressing the World Jewish Congress in Jerusalem on Tuesday, on the eve of his departure for a trip to Germany, Netanyahu said that Haj Amin Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, had planted the seed of the Holocaust during a meeting with the Fuehrer.

“Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews," Netanyahu said. "And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, 'If you expel them, they'll all come here.' 'So what should I do with them?'" he asked. He said, 'Burn them.'"

Netanyahu referred to a meeting that took place in November 1941 between Hitler and Husseini, a fierce Palestinian nationalist and Nazi sympathiser.

Husseini, said Netanyahu, had a “central role in fomenting the Final Solution,” the policy finalized at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942 to exterminate the Jews of Europe.

The comments caused an uproar Wednesday morning, infuriating both Israelis and Palestinians, who charged Netanyahu with rewriting history and exploiting the Holocaust for political gain.

“Also the son of an historian must state facts accurately,” opposition leader Isaac Herzog said, in a reference to the prime minister’s late father, a prominent historian. Herzog demanded that Netanyahu immediately correct what he called a “dangerous distortion of history” that reduced Hitler’s responsibility for Israel's tragedy. Herzog warned that Netanyahu’s words “fall into the hands of Holocaust deniers like a ripe fruit,” and muddy Israel’s conflict with the Palestinians. “Hitler did not need Husseini to order the killing of Jews,” Herzog added.

“Maybe Netanyahu wants to tell this to my relatives and another 200,000 Jews murdered in Lithuania before the mufti and Hitler met?” left-wing lawmaker Zehava Galon wrote on Facebook. “I am ashamed for you,” added Galon, who said Netanyahu disgraced Israel by “dragging through the mud” the memory of the Jewish victims of Nazi atrocity.

Another opposition lawmaker, Dov Khenin, demanded that the prime minister retract his words and apologize for what he called a “distortion of history that joins the murky wave of Holocaust denial.”

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israel-netanyahu-holocaust-20151021-story.html

Offline pac522

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2015, 04:04:40 PM »
Good thread. Without me reading this posts, since I am on my phone, I can say I have just been reading about this. What is my understanding right now is that Zionist leaders made an agreement with the British government to get Palestine before WWI. After WWII the Germans agreed to it's Jewish population a return to Palestine with their assets in tact. It seems that Britain controlled Palestine at the time and although they were to annex control, they still wanted to maintain and economical strangle hold on the area. They certainly didn't want the economic and military superpower that Germany was becoming to gain any control. So Britain had France come in to an alliance against Germany. They used Poland in the Great Game. And the Jewish People became expendable pawns. The real history we've been taught is far from the truth.

I am mostly making this post as a bookmark to read through later, but what I've stated is not far from the truth I think.
This country did not achieve greatness with the mindset of "safety first" but rather "live free or die".

Truth is the currency of love. R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution!

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The problem is the virus called the Illuminati.  ~EvadingGrid

The answer to 1984 is 1776.

Offline pac522

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2015, 05:42:00 PM »
Suggested reading. Giant text book, easy reading with pictures for documentation. I'm in the beginning of Volume 2 right now. The author MS King documents how many times the term 6 million Jews comes to public light through the Rothschild Zionist press. Great documentation for any that are interested.

Planet Rothschild: The Forbidden History of the New World Order (1763-2015)) (Volume 1)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1514877821/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687502&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1514878178&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0PEMVMHX61735PCJNAVD

Planet Rothschild: The Forbidden History of the New World Order (WW2 - 2015) (Volume 2)
http://www.amazon.com/Planet-Rothschild-Forbidden-History-Volume/dp/1514878178
This country did not achieve greatness with the mindset of "safety first" but rather "live free or die".

Truth is the currency of love. R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution!

We are all running on Gods laptop.
The problem is the virus called the Illuminati.  ~EvadingGrid

The answer to 1984 is 1776.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: Could the Nazis Haavara agreement have contributed to the Holocaust?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2017, 01:49:58 PM »

still available online in German ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X45W1-XFn_g
HaDira - The Flat (2011 film German)

sort of related: (interesting documentary)
As a side note it is interesting that the Nazi's interest in north Africa had a lot to do with the gold france (from Rothschild banks) had been shipped south into N. Africa and so the Nazi's were not so interested in Palestine so much   


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X45W1-XFn_g
HaDira - The Flat (2011 film German)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z94u_5qLxXU


From SS Official to Coke Executive - Leopold Von Mildenstein (on right)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2071620/reviews
The Flat More at IMDbPro »

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5