The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21

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Online TahoeBlue

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Just a comment that with all the forest fires across the country ( going on for years! ) and the relative shut down of the timber industry for years ( raising the prices of lumber and homes) . One has to wonder at the millions upon millions of dollars worth of timber going up in flames in uncontrollable fires in a multi-year  drought season. ??? Why ?

The country spends millions (billions?) of dollars fighting these fires Why?  So we don't have logging roads as access and fire breaks?

This post is just a first shot at this subject...



http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/reforms-needed-to-protect-forests-strengthen-timber-industry/article_48daf5a0-fea4-11e2-bb1c-001a4bcf887a.html

Reforms needed to protect forests, strengthen timber industry
August 06, 2013 8:15 am  •  Guest column by STEVE DAINES
...
A U.S. Forest Service official recently acknowledged that the abundance of litigation has played a “huge role” in blocking responsible timber sales in Montana and other Region 1 states, including projects supported by collaborative groups consisting of timber and conservation leaders.

“It has virtually shut things down on the National Forest,” U.S. Forest Service Deputy Chief Jim Hubbard stated during a recent Natural Resources Committee hearing.

The result: Montana used to be home to more than 30 lumber mills. Now we have just seven.

This has left numerous Montana counties without the necessary funds to provide for communities’ needs, like emergency services and pay for teachers. It has also left our forests more vulnerable to wildfire. Last summer, Montana experienced one of the worst fire seasons in our state’s history, and this year’s fires have already consumed thousands of acres of trees. This is unacceptable.

Over the past few months, I’ve met with managers of Montana’s lumber mills, conservation groups and local elected officials to have candid conversations about how we can revitalize our timber industry and keep our forests healthy.

Because as most Montanans recognize, the responsible and active management of our national forests is critical for the health of Montana’s economy, as well as the health of our forests themselves.

That’s why I’m proud to have helped introduce the Restoring Healthy Forests for Healthy Communities Act. This bill will help revitalize the timber industry throughout Montana and create thousands of good, long-term jobs. It also tackles beetle kill, protecting our environment for future generations and reducing the threat of catastrophic wildfires in Montana.

The Restoring Healthy Forests for Healthy Communities Act will cut the red tape that has held up responsible forest management and timber production. It includes comprehensive reforms to discourage and limit the flood of frivolous appeals and litigation. It also requires the Forest Service to increase timber harvests on non-wilderness lands, now that it will have much-needed latitude to do its work. This improved management will protect the health of our forests and watersheds, the safety of our communities and jobs in the timber industry.
...


[ Fire ruin the value of trees for lumber: ]

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/forestryextension/Forestfires1.php

FOREST FIRE DAMAGE HURTS FUTURE VALUE OF TIMBER

 The real damage from a forest fire is rarely obvious. When a tree is exposed to forest fire, the lumber value continues to decline throughout the tree's life span.

 Forest fires in Kentucky usually burn close to the ground so they usually don't kill trees. Come springtime, the trees leaf out giving the false impression that the fire did no harm. However forest fires cause trees to continue to lose hardwood lumber value throughout their life spans-- even if there are no obvious, visible signs of damage.

Forest fires create entrances for diseases and insects; staining the wood that could be used for lumber; and cause rot to begin and continue. This means you'll get lower prices when you attempt to sell timber that has been exposed to fire. Foresters and log buyers can detect a past forest fire in a timber stand, even if the area has been fire free for many years.

 Keep fires out of your stands to maintain and increase the future value of your timber.

 Two fire seasons exist for Kentucky, one in the early spring (mid February to early May) and the other late fall (October through December). Conditions of warm temperatures, low humidity and a leaves on the ground dried by the sun are very conducive to forest fires.

 It's important to remember that any land owner found responsible for a fire getting out of hand is accountable for the entire cost of suppressing that fire.


http://www.blm.gov/or/districts/roseburg/plans/collab_forestry/files/TrueCostOfWilfire.pdf
The True Cost of Wildfire in the Western U.S.


Promoting science-based forest management that serves the values of society and ensures the health and sustainability of western forests.
Original publication date: April 2009 Conclusions and recommendations updated: April 2010

Introduction

The millions of dollars spent to extinguish large wildfires are widely reported and used to underscore the severity of these events.

Extinguishing a large wildfire, however, accounts for only a fraction of the total costs associated with a wildfire event. Residents in the
wildland-urban interface (WUI) are generally seen as the most vulnerable to fire, but a fuller accounting of the costs of fire also
reveals impacts to all Americans and gives a better picture of the losses incurred when our forests burn.

A full accounting considers long-term and complex costs, including impacts to watersheds, ecosystems, infrastructure, businesses,
individuals, and the local and national economy. Specifically, these costs include property losses (insured and uninsured), postfire
impacts (such as flooding and erosion), air and water quality damages, healthcare costs, injuries and fatalities, lost revenues (to
residents evacuated by the fire, and to local businesses), infrastructure shutdowns (such as highways, airports, and railroads), and a host of
ecosystem service costs that may extend into the distant future
.

Day-lighting the true costs of fire highlights opportunities to use active management to curb escalating costs. Unhealthy forests can increase
the risk of fire.1 Investing in active forest management is therefore valuable in the same way as investing in one’s own preventative
health care. Upfront costs can be imposing, and while the benefits may seem uncertain, good health results in cost savings that benefit
the individual, family, and society. This analogy helps to highlight the importance of fostering resilient ecosystems before fires occur, as a
tool for reducing the costs associated with suppression and recovery as well as extending the potential benefits of fire.

This report begins with an analysis of the many costs associated with wildfire. Several case studies illustrate a range of the full extent
of fire impacts
, suggesting patterns that can be included in future budgeting and planning processes at all levels of government.

The true costs of wildfire are shown to be far greater than the costs usually reported to the public, anywhere from 2 to 30 times the more commonly reported suppression costs.

Finally, a series of recommendations help focus the way these costs might be better considered. As the number of acres burned each year continues to increase, there is a justifiable sense of urgency. With a new administration and an incoming Congress with many new faces, the Western Forestry Leadership Coalition sees a fresh opportunity to address this long-standing forest management challenge.
...

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GAO-04-705/pdf/GAOREPORTS-GAO-04-705.pdf

WILDLAND FIRES Forest Service and BLM Need Better Information and a Systematic Approach for Assessing the Risks of Environmental Effects
June 2004

Wildland fires can have dramatic effects on environmental resources and ecosystems, including production of large amounts of smoke, loss of trees,
and erosion of soil into streams and lakes.

However, fires can also benefit resources by recycling soil nutrients, renewing vegetation growth, and adding gravel to streams, which improves spawning habitat for fish. The 20 wildland fires that we surveyed burned over 158,000 acres of federal land and had complex, wide-ranging, and sometimes contradictory, effects on both individual resources, such as trees and streams, and ecosystems. For example, the short-term effects of the Missionary Ridge fire in Colorado that burned almost 50,000 acres of trees and other vegetation included increased debris and sediment that affected water quality in some areas. However, in other areas, officials said even dramatic changes to streams would not be detrimental in the long term.

The Forest Service and BLM gather specific information on the environmental effects of individual wildland fires, such as soil erosion. The
agencies do not, however, gather comprehensive data on the severity of wildland fire effects on broad landscapes and ecosystems
—that is, large
areas that may involve one or more fires. The agencies recently developed a monitoring framework to gather severity data for fires, but they have not yet
implemented it. These data are needed to monitor the progress of the agencies’ actions to restore and maintain resilient fire-adapted ecosystems, a
goal of the National Fire Plan.

The National Fire Plan directs the Forest Service and BLM to target their fuel reduction activities with the purpose of lowering the risk of environmental
effects from wildland fires in areas that face the greatest losses. However, the agencies do not systematically assess the risks across landscapes that
fires pose to different environmental resources or ecosystems or the risks of taking no action on fuel reduction projects.

At the landscape level,

the Forest Service and BLM do not have a formal framework for systematically assessing the risk of fire to resources and ecosystems, although some of the forests and BLM field offices have developed risk assessments on their own or in collaboration with regional, state, or local efforts.

At the project level,
while the agencies recognize the need to better analyze the risk of acting to reduce fuels versus not doing so, neither fire planning guidance nor National
Environmental Policy Act guidance specify how to do this. Opportunities exist to clarify how the agencies should analyze the effects of not taking
action to reduce fuels. The agencies can clarify interim guidance to implement the Healthy Forests Restoration Act, and the agencies can, in
conjunction with CEQ, further develop the lessons learned from a CEQ demonstration program carried out in 2003.

Without a risk-based approach,  these agencies cannot target their fuel reduction projects across landscapes or make fully informed decisions about which effects and project alternatives are more desirable.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 02:11:25 PM »

  Thanks for posting this Tahoe Blue.

  Yes, all of this stuff is happening in Montana.

  The Bozeman Tea Party is trying to fight the Agenda 21 Plans.  The UN wants to eventually have all Montanans live in a few bigger cities and turn the forests into habitats for animals.  IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

  THERE IS ALSO AN ANTI-FRACKING MOVEMENT UP HERE.  An individual is going around the state fighting them.  He claims we could have 20 Williston, ND-type towns here in MT.

  As for the forest fires, they seem to let them BURN AND BURN.  We have 3 of them less than 20 miles from our home.  At one of them, they keep letting the fire burn while 500 fighters sit at the camp eating 3 square meals per day.  MADNESS EVEN HERE IN MONTANA.

  I BELIEVE IF 50 MILLION HOMES BURNED TO THE GROUND IN AMERICA, MONTANA COULD SUPPLY ALL THE WOOD THEY NEED TO REBUILD THEM.

  MONTANA---THE LAST GREAT PLACE IN AMERICA---despite Ted Turner having a ranch here---rat bastard.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 04:40:50 PM »
I think after all the forests have burned up millions in timber they will have create new policies of forest management (the old ones)  ( since all the forests have burned and there is no more fuel to burn OK? mission complete!  But they will never admit their policies were WRONG oh no  ) -

http://www.hpj.com/archives/2013/apr13/apr15/GeneralTemplatesr.cfm

Bill would reduce excessive fuel loads on federal lands through livestock grazing and timber thinning

“The Public Lands Council, National Cattlemen’s Beef Association and Arizona Cattle Growers’ Association expressed strong support for the Catastrophic Wildfire Prevention Act of 2013 (H.R. 1345), reintroduced with bipartisan support by Rep. Paul Gosar, R-AZ. This bill, familiar from the last session of Congress, facilitates an expedited process to reduce hazardous fuel loads on federal lands through livestock grazing and timber harvesting.
 


The bill proposes to reduce the risk of catastrophic wildfire on areas managed by the U.S. Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management identified as high-risk. It would streamline analyses performed under the National Environmental Policy Act in those areas, expediting fuels-reduction activities such as livestock grazing and timber thinning. When threatened or endangered species are at risk, it would also allow for hazardous fuels-reduction projects to go forward under existing emergency provisions of the Endangered Species Act. Furthermore, it adds to last year’s legislation by including contract stewardship and good neighbor authority measures, which facilitate the completion of forest management projects through public-private partnerships and cooperation with state governments.

PLC President Brice Lee and NCBA President Scott George agreed that the bill addresses the significant issue of catastrophic wildfire in the West by reducing administrative delays, expediting forest management processes, and encouraging better forest health and economic development.


Last year, more than 9 million acres were burned in one of the worst fire seasons this country has seen in the last few decades. In that scenario, everyone bears the burden of habitat loss—ranchers, western communities, wildlife and the taxpayer, to name a few,” Lee said. “We hope that Congress acts swiftly and moves forward with passing this legislation, so that ranchers and entire communities do not remain vulnerable during what may be another devastating fire season this year.”

George added that fires threaten both rural and urban communities and impair the watersheds the public depends on.

“The red tape beleaguering USFS and the BLM when addressing wildfires is endangering the lives and operations of livestock producers, threatening the natural resources the public depends on, and hindering economic growth,” said George. “This bill seeks to put an end to these issues and allow for better management of public lands.”

...
The Catastrophic Wildfire Prevention Act of 2013 is a commonsense way to accomplish that and to prevent wildfires from destroying public and private lands across the West.”

Date: 4/15/2013

http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th/house-bill/1345
H.R.1345 - Catastrophic Wildfire Prevention Act of 2013 113th Congress (2013-2014

Sponsor: Rep. Gosar, Paul A. [R-AZ-4] (Introduced 03/21/2013)  

Cosponsors: 16

Latest Action: 04/23/2013 Referred to the Subcommittee on Conservation, Energy, and Forestry. [ dead dead dead !  Oh there is SO much more to burn in the west!!! ]
Major Recorded Votes: There are no Roll Call votes for this bill


| - - - - - -

DO NOTHING Jokers on House  Subcommittee on Conservation, Energy, and Forestry :

http://agriculture.house.gov/subcommittees/conservation-energy-and-forestry

Rep. Glenn Thompson, PA-5 Chairman Rep.
Timothy J. Walz, MN-1   Ranking Member

 
Members

Majority

Rep. Mike Rogers (AL-3)
Rep. Bob Gibbs (OH-7)
Rep. Scott R. Tipton (CO-3)
Rep. Eric A. "Rick" Crawford (AR-1)
Rep. Martha Roby (AL-2)
Rep. Reid J. Ribble (WI-8)
Rep. Kristi L. Noem (SD-At-Large)
Rep. Dan Benishek (MI-1)

 

Minority

Rep. Gloria Negrete McLeod (CA-35)
Rep. Ann M. Kuster (NH-2)
Rep. Richard M. Nolan (MN-8)
Rep. Mike McIntyre (NC-7)
Rep. Kurt Schrader (OR-5)
Rep. Suzan K. DelBene (WA-1)
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline Anon27

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 05:35:16 PM »
Agenda 21 - shakes head.

These f**ks are insane people ruled by insane objectives.
Ironically due to group think one is actually more likely to be labelled insane for saying so.

"Thanks to technological progress,
Big Brother can now be almost as omnipresent as God."

- Aldous Huxley

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 11:28:48 AM »
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/24/yosemite-wildfire-san-francisco-state-emergency
Yosemite wildfire: state of emergency declared for San Francisco

California governor Jerry Brown cites threats to electricity and water supplies as firefighters consider asking for military help



Reuters in San Francisco   
theguardian.com, Saturday 24 August 2013 01.29 EDT   

A wildfire raging at the edge of Yosemite national park is threatening power lines that provide electricity to San Francisco, prompting California governor Jerry Brown to declare a state of emergency.

The fire has damaged the electrical infrastructure serving the city, and forced the San Francisco Public Utilities Commission to shut down power lines, the governor said in his declaration.

There were no reports of blackouts in the city, which is about 200 miles west of the park.

The wildfire swept further into Yosemite national park on Friday, remaining largely unchecked as it threatened one of the country's major tourist destinations.

The so-called Rim Fire, which started last week in the Stanislaus national forest, had blackened 11,000 acres (4,450 hectares) at the north-eastern corner of Yosemite as of Friday afternoon after exploding in size overnight, park spokeswoman Kari Cobb said.

The blaze burning in the western Sierra Nevada mountains is now the fastest-moving of 50 large wildfires raging across the drought-parched US west that have strained resources and prompted fire managers to open talks with Pentagon commanders and Canadian officials about possible reinforcements.

The blaze, which has now charred a total of 165 square miles of forest land, mostly outside Yosemite, was about four miles west of Hetch Hetchy reservoir and some 20 miles from Yosemite Valley, the park's main tourist centre, Cobb said.

The reservoir provides water to 2.6 million customers in the San Francisco area. Should the blaze affect the reservoir, the city's water supply could be affected, Brown said in his declaration.

...

http://activefiremaps.fs.fed.us/

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 11:59:23 AM »


  We finally got a little rain last night---near Bozeman, MT.

  But with rain comes more lightning strikes.

  I do smell smoke this morning.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 12:01:14 PM »
  Thanks for posting this Tahoe Blue.

  Yes, all of this stuff is happening in Montana.

  The Bozeman Tea Party is trying to fight the Agenda 21 Plans.  The UN wants to eventually have all Montanans live in a few bigger cities and turn the forests into habitats for animals.  IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

  THERE IS ALSO AN ANTI-FRACKING MOVEMENT UP HERE.  An individual is going around the state fighting them.  He claims we could have 20 Williston, ND-type towns here in MT.

  As for the forest fires, they seem to let them BURN AND BURN.  We have 3 of them less than 20 miles from our home.  At one of them, they keep letting the fire burn while 500 fighters sit at the camp eating 3 square meals per day.  MADNESS EVEN HERE IN MONTANA.

  I BELIEVE IF 50 MILLION HOMES BURNED TO THE GROUND IN AMERICA, MONTANA COULD SUPPLY ALL THE WOOD THEY NEED TO REBUILD THEM.

  MONTANA---THE LAST GREAT PLACE IN AMERICA---despite Ted Turner having a ranch here---rat bastard.

Yes America could be supplying the WORLD with quality lumber at low costs but NO that would be TOO GOOD ... ( the same with Canada Northwest )

do a search on Pinchot , who started the forest service to create a timber monopoly   - oh he did it ...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 12:12:48 PM »
Yes America could be supplying the WORLD with quality lumber at low costs but NO that would be TOO GOOD ... ( the same with Canada Northwest )

do a search on Pinchot , who started the forest service to create a timber monopoly   - oh he did it ...


  Just think how many Americans could have jobs?  On some of these roads up here in Montana, you see miles and miles and miles of NOTHING BUT TREES.

  One bad thing here though.  We have pine beetles that are killing the trees.  After the beetles are done, the trees die---perfect kindling for forest fires---dry, dead trees.

  A friend of mine says he has a natural product to kill the pine beetle BUT THE GOVERNMENT WON'T HEAR HIS STORY.  He delves into natural herbs to help people with their sicknesses.  WHAT A COUNTRY.  ALL BY DESIGN.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 12:28:32 PM »
Love the “contrails” in the pic above.

When one looks at what is specifically government funded and defunded, the agenda becomes clear. Didn’t I read that timber sales and management funds were being cut while firefighting budgets were being increased? Sure is a big incentive for firefighters to start new fires. And since some of them are trained to do forensics to determine origin and cause, who better to start something undetectable due to “natural causes”?

Years ago, Forestry sold people on wood as a cheap alternative to oil. They argued abundance and safety from wildfires.

Then they regulated any commercial firewood startups to the point where firewood became too expensive for the end user. They imposed timber sale fees, insurance requirements, etc. I’ve even heard rumors that Forestry demanded that wood cutters charge a minimum price per cord for the end user. A lot of small businesses just gave up and shut down  They couldn’t compete with the big guys.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 12:37:37 PM »
Love the “contrails” in the pic above.

When one looks at what is specifically government funded and defunded, the agenda becomes clear. Didn’t I read that timber sales and management funds were being cut while firefighting budgets were being increased? Sure is a big incentive for firefighters to start new fires. And since some of them are trained to do forensics to determine origin and cause, who better to start something undetectable due to “natural causes”?

Years ago, Forestry sold people on wood as a cheap alternative to oil. They argued abundance and safety from wildfires.

Then they regulated any commercial firewood startups to the point where firewood became too expensive for the end user. They imposed timber sale fees, insurance requirements, etc. I’ve even heard rumors that Forestry demanded that wood cutters charge a minimum price per cord for the end user. A lot of small businesses just gave up and shut down  They couldn’t compete with the big guys.

  I have a friend who is a small operator--selling firewood to locals--and he is about the go out of business.  THE REASON---THE FOREST SERVICE IMPOSES MORE REGULATIONS YEAR AFTER YEAR.  He sits in meetings each spring and a forest service worker goes over the new regs.  Insanity created by the low-level lawyers.

  I don't doubt that there are fire fighters that would start new fires.  But it is so dry out here right now that a cigarette smoker could throw out a cigarette anywhere and start a fire.  Also a tailpipe in high grass could set off a fire.  OF COURSE THE BIG CULPRIT ARE LIGHTNING STRIKES.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2013, 01:09:22 PM »
The history is quite interesting. From what I understand, Forestry used to be under military jurisdiction, the US Calvary. During WWII, there was a huge propaganda campaign fearmongering that the Japanese were going to firebomb the west coast. I believe this justified the existence of another government agency.

Around the same time, Smokey the Bear was iconized by the Ad Council - an NGO that  has traditionally placed the blame for any social problem on the public at large. They produced PSAs telling the public how to behave.

Today the Forest Service in integrated. They have a highly efficient deployment system that can tap anybody in the US and fly them across the country within days with a few keystrokes. Every job is categorized, with a qualification checklist similar to an MOS. I would call this a paramilitary organization.

One can start here:
http://gacc.nifc.gov/

and drill down to track any and all wildfires in the US. Some sites have interactive maps with funding information. I have personally witnessed a wildfire that was budgeted for over 1 million USD per day.

With that kind of money flowing, a lot of people are actively looking to get a piece of it.

You can actually rent a car, boat, pickup, ATV, dozer, etc to Forestry during fire season. Some people have earned enough during the season to turn around and buy a new replacement for the equipment they contracted out to the government.

The “emergency” industry is big business right now. And human behavior is being driven by money.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline Honor18

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2013, 01:14:45 PM »
Have never dug into their history before but it looks interesting, Little off topic but over the last few months we have had Forestry Archeologists staying at the Hotel that I manage and I have tryed to get them to tell me what they have been looking at or for and they state that they are not allowed to talk about it.
     Also when those firefighters stayed here they actually had two guys with them that carried AR15 rifles they stated it was to deal with Wildlife but here in Florida about the only thing you would have to worry about would be a alligator which are quite easy to kill, found it interesting.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2013, 01:17:30 PM »
  Thank you One Revelator.  Your posts are interesting and informative.    

  IT'S US AGAINST THEM.
                                                                                                                                                                                                      
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2013, 01:17:58 PM »
a little history .... 1910 fire .... ( the fire started along the railroad tracks of the Northern Pacific Railroad that was built to bring back NON-Pinchot timber for railroad ties to build railroad tracks for Vanderbuilt (and steel rails by Carnagie) get the idea?

http://www.idahoforests.org/fires.htm
The West is Burning Up!

THE 1910 FIRE
 By Jim Petersen Evergreen Magazine, Winter Edition 1994-1995

It was the largest forest fire in American history. Maybe even the largest forest fire ever. No one knows for sure, but even now, it is hard to put into words what it did.

 For two terrifying days and night's - August 20 and 21, 1910 - the fire raged across three million acres of virgin timberland in northern Idaho and western Montana.   Many thought the world would end, and for 86, it did.

Most of what was destroyed fell to hurricane-force winds that turned the fire into a blowtorch. Re-constructing what happened leads to an almost impossible conclusion: Most of the cremation occurred in a six-hour period.

 A forester named Edward Stahl wrote of flames shooting hundreds of feet in the air, "fanned by a tornadic wind so violent that the flames flattened out ahead, swooping to earth in great darting curves, truly a veritable red demon from hell."

 Among the 86 who perished were 28 or 29 men - no one knows for sure - who tried to outrun their fate in a straight upstraight down canyon called Storm Creek.
 Two men too terrified to face death took their own lives. One jumped from a burning train and the other shot himself when he feared an approaching fire would overtake him. Two fire fighters fled into flames before the very eyes of horrified comrades huddled in a nearby stream.

 Hundreds more survived, many by the grace of God. Ranger Edward Pulaski, who became a hero at a place called the War Eagle Mine, led men with prayers on their lips through a pitch-black darkness punctuated by exploding trees and waves of flames that arced across the night sky.

 Perhaps, Edward Stahl would later say, "the men thought the small fires flickering dimly in the darkness were candles burning for the dead."
 "The fire turned trees and men into weird torches that exploded like Roman candles," one survivor told a newspaper reporter.
...
On July 1, 1904, Bill Greeley went to work for the Bureau of Forestry, a renamed version of the old Division of Forestry. He quickly became one of "Gifford Pinchot's boys" - a name given to young lions hand-picked by Pinchot, who headed the Bureau. More important though was the fact that Pinchot was a great friend of President Theodore Roosevelt, who in 1905 engineered the creation of the U.S. Forest Service, and named Pinchot its first chief forester.

Allies at first, Pinchot and Greeley later became the chief protagonists in a bitter and frequently very public debate over the Forest Service's relationship with private forest landowners. Pinchot did not trust them, and wanted their every move regulated by law; Greeley's experiences with lumbermen convinced him they could be trusted. Whatever doubts he may have had were erased by the 1910 fire. And looking back now, it is clear no single event did more to mold the U.S. Forest Service in its historic image than did the 1910 fire.
...
No official cause was ever listed for the 1910 fire. A bad electrical storm the night of July 15 touched off more than 3,000 fires in District One, but by August 19 - the night before the big blowup - the worst seemed to be over. But 1910 was also the driest year in anyone's memory. Snows melted early and the spring rains never came. By August, normally swift? running rivers had slowed to a crawl and many streams had simply disappeared into bedrock.
...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Pacific_Railway
Northern Pacific Railway



The Northern Pacific Railway (reporting mark NP) was a transcontinental railroad that operated across the northern tier of the western United States from Minnesota to the Pacific Coast. It was approved by Congress in 1864 and given nearly 40 million acres (160,000 km2) of land grants, which it used to raise money in Europe for construction.

Construction began in 1870 and the main line opened all the way from the Great Lakes to the Pacific when former president Ulysses S. Grant drove in the final "golden spike" in western Montana on Sept. 8, 1883. The railroad had about 6800 miles of track and served a large area, including extensive trackage in the states of Idaho, Minnesota, Montana, North Dakota, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin.

In addition the company had international branches to Winnipeg, Manitoba, and southeastern British Columbia, Canada. The main activities were shipping wheat and other farm products, cattle, timber and minerals; bringing in consumer goods, transporting passengers; and selling land. The company was headquartered first in Brainerd, Minnesota, then in Saint Paul, Minnesota. It had a tumultuous financial history, and in 1970 it merged with other lines to form the Burlington Northern Railroad.

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=LAH19010530.2.151
may 1901

RAILROAD WAR IS AT AN END . Struggle for Northern Pacific Ceases Gould and Vanderbilt Bring About the Peace Rockefeller-Gould Syndicate is Making an Effort to Secure Control of Delaware, Lackawanna and Western as an Eastern Outlet for Missouri Pacific System—Cowen Qnlts

NEW YORK. May 30.—Peace has been patched up between the HillMorgan combination, according to the World, and the Harriman-Kuhn-Loeb syndicate in the struggle for the control of the Northern Pacific Railroad. The friendliest feeling now exists, and an agreement has practically been reached, which will prevent any renewal of the strife. The amicable understanding was brought about through the friendly offices of George Gould and William K. Vanderbilt. Each side has ceased talking about its respective holdings in Northern Pacific stock. It is said that the Union Pacific railroad owns over $59,000,000 in securities of the Northern Pacific. James J. Hill, president of the Great Northern, is in the city. He has been in conference with representatives of the Northern Pacific and Union Pacific ever since his arrival. He refuses to say anything for publication either in regard to Northern Pacific affairs or the conflict with the Northern Pacific interests.
...

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2013, 01:25:52 PM »
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/56775494-68/fire-yellowstone-park-rain.html.csp

  We are going to Yellowstone tomorrow.  TOMORROW IS A FREE DAY AT ALL NATIONAL PARKS---NO FEE FOR ENTRY--AUGUST 25, 2013.  Usually the fee is $25.


Rain helps cool Yellowstone National Park wildfires

Yellowstone National Park, Wyo. • More rain helped to control five wildfires burning in mostly remote areas of Yellowstone National Park but park officials were still keeping an eye out for flare-ups.

The biggest of the fires, the 12-square-mile Alum Fire, remained active around its perimeter but wasn’t growing much. Heavy smoke from the fire 5 miles north of Lake Village briefly closed the road between Fishing Bridge and Canyon Village on Tuesday.

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The fire calmed down considerably after heavy rain Wednesday and more rain Thursday helped keep the flames tamped down.

"But we still have a lot of personnel and equipment on hand should drier, hotter conditions prompt them to grow again in the coming days," park spokesman Al Nash said Friday.

Areas north of the Alum Fire, along the Yellowstone River, remained closed Friday. Among them were the Mud Volcano area and backcountry trails in the Hayden Valley.

More rain from scattered thunderstorms was forecast.

Yellowstone’s other fires also were growing little. The Alder Fire had burned about 7 square miles of a peninsula at the south end of Yellowstone Lake.

Other fires in the park included the 150-acre Druid Fire on the north side of Druid Peak near the Northeast Entrance, and the 200-acre Snake Fire 3 miles east of the South Entrance.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2013, 01:27:37 PM »
Have never dug into their history before but it looks interesting, Little off topic but over the last few months we have had Forestry Archeologists staying at the Hotel that I manage and I have tryed to get them to tell me what they have been looking at or for and they state that they are not allowed to talk about it.
     Also when those firefighters stayed here they actually had two guys with them that carried AR15 rifles they stated it was to deal with Wildlife but here in Florida about the only thing you would have to worry about would be a alligator which are quite easy to kill, found it interesting.

Didn't I just read something about Forestry making an massive ammo purchase? AR15's aren't exactly a good hunting round. 223/5.56 is traditionally anti personnel. Most people would be better off with a shotgun with slugs for basic bear protection.

Since when the hell does Forestry have anything to do with state secrets? I do know that the DHS is involved with training Forestry personnel. The "forensics" course mentioned above was a DHS thing.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2013, 01:29:39 PM »
The history is quite interesting. From what I understand, Forestry used to be under military jurisdiction, the US Calvary. During WWII, there was a huge propaganda campaign fearmongering that the Japanese were going to firebomb the west coast. I believe this justified the existence of another government agency.

...
Today the Forest Service in integrated. They have a highly efficient deployment system that can tap anybody in the US and fly them across the country within days with a few keystrokes. Every job is categorized, with a qualification checklist similar to an MOS. I would call this a paramilitary organization.

One can start here:
http://gacc.nifc.gov/

and drill down to track any and all wildfires in the US. Some sites have interactive maps with funding information. I have personally witnessed a wildfire that was budgeted for over 1 million USD per day. With that kind of money flowing, a lot of people are actively looking to get a piece of it.

...
The “emergency” industry is big business right now. And human behavior is being driven by money.

Thanks for that link -  NGO's - internal government networks ,,, Tax dollars ->  Fed Budget --> back into an insiders pocket

http://www.nifc.gov/fireInfo/nfn.htm
August 24, 2013

Nationally, initial attack activity was heavy with over 300 new starts. Three new large fires were reported and four were contained. Firefighters have made great progress on many fires in Idaho, Utah, Nevada and Oregon. Incident management will continue to move resources as they become available to areas with higher concerns.

One MAFFS C-130 aircraft from the 153rd Airlift Wing, Cheyenne (Wyoming Air National Guard), one from the 302nd Airlift Wing, Colorado Springs (Air Force Reserve), and one from the 145th Airlift Wing (North Carolina Air National Guard) are supporting wildland fire suppression operations out of Boise, ID.

Two MAFFS from the 146th Airlift Wing (California Air National Guard) are supporting wildland fire suppression operations out of Channel Islands Air National Guard Station, CA.


http://www.146aw.ang.af.mil/


MAFFS 6, a C130J from the 146th Airlift Wing in Port Hueneme, Calif., drops a line of retardant over the trees in the mountains above Palm Springs July 19, 2013. The 146th Airlift Wing was activated July 18 to support CAL Fire and CAL OES on the Mountain fire and other potential wildfire activity throughout the state. (Air National Guard photo by: Senior Airman Nicholas Carzis.)
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2013, 01:33:59 PM »
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56769048-78/sltrib-http-com-csp.html.csp

  The Yellowstone Fire of 1988.  We still see dead trees standing that were destroyed by that fire.




A Look Back: The Tribune’s shots of the 1988 Yellowstone fire

Twenty-five years ago, Yellowstone National Park suffered the worst fires in its history.

Multiple fires raged in and around the park, beginning in early June and continuing through late September. A total of 51 fires were recorded during the summer, with nine being human-caused and 42 being sparked by lightning.

 
The fires affected 793,880 acres — about 36 percent of the park — and, on Sept. 8, forced the closure of Yellowstone to all but emergency personnel for the first time in the park’s history.

About 25,000 people fought the fires, which cost $120 million to suppress.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Online TahoeBlue

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Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2013, 02:22:07 PM »
  I have a friend who is a small operator--selling firewood to locals--and he is about the go out of business.  THE REASON---THE FOREST SERVICE IMPOSES MORE REGULATIONS YEAR AFTER YEAR.  He sits in meetings each spring and a forest service worker goes over the new regs.

Yeah, I'm seeing the same thing. The little guys that just want to help out the community by selling cheap firewood to elderly or fixed income types are being shut down. This keeps the price up for the few vendors that hold a monopoly.

Quote
  I don't doubt that there are fire fighters that would start new fires.  But it is so dry out here right now that a cigarette smoker could throw out a cigarette anywhere and start a fire.  Also a tailpipe in high grass could set off a fire.  OF COURSE THE BIG CULPRIT ARE LIGHTNING STRIKES.

When a fire is discovered and entered into the database, they must indicate a cause. Usually it's either listed as "human" or "lightning". If the word "human" appears, then there's a liability issue with fines involved. Most fires indicate the latter. But it would be easy for a trained individual to monitor fire conditions and light something during a time when known lightning is in the area. There is a financial incentive to do so. And it would be difficult to prove one way or another. Just sayin...

BTW, here’s the system they use to manage/deploy/track ALL personnel and equipment for firefighting inside the US.

http://ross.nwcg.gov/

“The National Interagency Resource Ordering and Status System (ROSS) operates in an estimated 400 interagency dispatch and coordination offices throughout the Nation. The ROSS tracks all tactical, logistical, service and support resources mobilized by the incident dispatch community.”

All dispatchers have access to this.

The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2013, 05:35:36 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/weather/2013/08/24/yosemite-area-wildfire-triples-in-size/?test=latestnews

  WOW! YOSEMITE IS  ABOUT 200 MILES FROM SF AND THEY GET MOST OF THEIR WATER FROM THERE.  INSANE!


California gov. declares state of emergency as wildfire spreads into Yosemite



  from the article...


San Francisco gets 85 percent of its water from the Yosemite-area Hetch Hetchy reservoir that is about 4 miles from the fire, though that had yet to be affected. But it was forced to shut down two of its three hydroelectric power stations in the area.

The city has so far been able to buy power on the open market and use existing supplies, but further disruptions or damage could have an effect, according to city power officials and the governor's statement.

The declaration frees funding and resources to help the city and makes it eligible for more federal funds to help with power shortages and outages or water problems.

I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2013, 05:38:17 PM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-fire-yosemite-20130822,0,6339838.story

Wildfire enters Yosemite, threatens San Francisco water, power

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Firefighters on Saturday battled to gain control of a fast-moving wildfire raging on the edge of Yosemite National Park that is threatening power and water supplies to San Francisco about 200 miles to the west.

The so-called Rim Fire, which had grown to just over 125,000 acres as of early Saturday, remained largely unchecked with extreme terrain hampering efforts at containment.

"We are making progress but unfortunately the steep terrain definitely has posed a major challenge," said Daniel Berlant, a spokesman for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Dude447

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2013, 06:55:16 PM »
Fire Activity Overview

SUMMARY:   National Interagency Fire Center
      National Fire News - Summary, National Preparedness Level, Statistics, Averages

ISSUED:   Saturday, August 24 2013

DETAILS:   

NOTE: This information will be updated daily.


Summary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nationally, initial attack activity was heavy with over 300 new starts. Three new large fires were reported and four were contained. Firefighters have made great progress on many fires in Idaho, Utah, Nevada and Oregon. Incident management will continue to move resources as they become available to areas with higher concerns.

One MAFFS C-130 aircraft from the 153rd Airlift Wing, Cheyenne (Wyoming Air National Guard), one from the 302nd Airlift Wing, Colorado Springs (Air Force Reserve), and one from the 145th Airlift Wing (North Carolina Air National Guard) are supporting wildland fire suppression operations out of Boise, ID. Two MAFFS from the 146th Airlift Wing (California Air National Guard) are supporting wildland fire suppression operations out of Channel Islands Air National Guard Station, CA.

Weather: Scattered showers and thunderstorms will form over the Four Corners region. Isolated to widely scattered thunderstorms will develop over parts of western Montana, central and northern Idaho and parts of Oregon and Washington. Windy conditions will develop across the Sierra and the western Great Basin. Temperatures in the West will be mild over the mountains and along the Northwest coast, but warmer in lower elevations. In the East, scattered showers and thunderstorms will develop across the Gulf Coast region. Scattered showers will move through the upper Midwest. Temperatures will remain very warm over the Plains and through the South, with mild conditions in the Great Lakes region and New England.


National Preparedness Level
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preparedness Level 5: Geographic Areas are experiencing major incidents which have the potential to exhaust all agency fire resources. 80 percent of Type 1 and 2 IMTs and crews are committed, as well as the majority of other national resources.


Daily Statistics 8/24/13
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of new large fires:  3

States currently reporting large fires: 
Alaska (1), Arizona (1), California (10), Idaho (11), Montana (5), Nevada (3), Oregon (6), Utah (2), Washington (3), Wyoming (1)

Number of active large fires:  43

Acres from active fires:  854,480

Fires contained on 8/23/13:  4

Year-to-date large fires contained:  277



Year-to-Date Statistics
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2013 (1/1/13 - 8/24/13)      Fires: 33,126      Acres: 3,541,193

2012 (1/1/12 - 8/24/12)      Fires: 43,237      Acres: 7,147,484

2011 (1/1/11 - 8/24/11)      Fires: 50,471      Acres: 6,620,448

2010 (1/1/10 - 8/24/10)      Fires: 42,415      Acres: 2,686,316

2009 (1/1/09 - 8/24/09)      Fires: 63,832      Acres: 5,147,710

2008 (1/1/08 - 8/24/08)      Fires: 63,108      Acres: 4,434,364

Fires: 63,799      Fires: 63,799      Acres: 6,854,854

2006 (1/1/06 - 8/24/06)      Fires: 78,037      Acres: 7,165,712

2005 (1/1/05 - 8/24/05)      Fires: 44,181      Acres: 6,818,389

2004 (1/1/03 - 8/24/04)      Fires: 54,266      Acres: 6,630,417



10-Year Average
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004-2013            Fires: 53,680      Acres: 5,711,326



Definitions
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Preparedness Level: The National Multi-Agency Coordination Group establishes Preparedness Levels throughout the calendar year to help assure that firefighting resources are ready to respond to new incidents. Preparedness Levels are dictated by burning conditions, fire activity, and resource availability. The five Preparedness Levels range from 1-5, with 5 being the highest level. Each Preparedness Level has specific management directions. As the Preparedness Levels rise, more federal and state employees become available for fire mobilization.

Wildfire: Any nonstructure fire, other than prescribed fire, that occurs in the wildland.

Large Incident: A fire of 100 acres or more occurring in timber, or a fire of 300 acres or more occurring in grass/sage.

IMT1: Type 1 Incident Management Team assigned to Fire.

IMT2: Type 2 Incident Management Team assigned to Fire.

WFU: Fire Use. A naturally ignited Fire that is managed to accomplish specific resource management objectives in predefined geographic areas as outlined in Fire Management Plans.

      

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2013, 10:57:13 AM »
Oh earlier this year was the AZ fires that killed 19 hotshots  wasn't that a tragedy waiting to happen with the policies in place from above?
Who is next to lose home and or life to this ?


http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jul/07/nation/la-na-fire-tic-toc-20130707
19 fallen Arizona firefighters showed courage to the end
As Arizona's Yarnell Hill fire took a sudden and deadly turn, 19 Granite Mountain Hotshot firefighters showed their resolve
July 7 2013

PRESCOTT, Ariz. — Hours before the Granite Mountain Interagency Hotshots climbed into the parched, craggy hills where they would die, one of them woke his father with a phone call.

"We have a fire in Yarnell," said Kevin Woyjeck. "It's big and getting bigger."

The lightning-sparked wildfire outside the tiny former gold-mining town had spread to 200 acres, sweeping over deep canyons and big boulders, taking fuel from chaparral rich with oils that burn hot and fast.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-arizona-firefighter-family-benefits-20130807,0,6537048.story
Fallen Arizona firefighter's family appeals for lifetime benefits
By Molly Hennessy-Fiske
August 7, 2013, 6:12 p.m.

Killeen, Texas—  Relatives of one of the 19 Arizona hotshots killed by a wildfire have launched an online petition to force the city of Prescott, Ariz., to provide his widow and young children with the same survivor benefits as other firefighters' families.

Andrew Ashcraft, 29, was a three-year city employee and one of the Granite Mountain Interagency Hotshot Crew members who were overrun by flames June 30 while battling a fast-moving blaze in the small town of Yarnell, about 35 miles south of Prescott. Only one member of the crew survived.

Ashcraft’s widow says she filed for the same benefits -- including income and health benefits -- as other families of hotshots killed in the Yarnell Hill fire, but was told last month that she didn't qualify because even though her husband was working full time when he died, he was technically a part-time employee.
...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/07/209892173/arizona-firefighters-widow-may-fight-city-over-benefits

The widow of a man who died fighting a wildfire this summer as part of a "hotshots" team based in Prescott, Ariz., says her attempts to be paid her late husband's lifetime benefits have been denied. The city's explanation is that Andrew Ashcraft, 29, was a seasonal employee, Juliann Ashcraft said Wednesday.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2013, 11:07:46 AM »
Oh does anyone remember when Los Alamos was evacuated and nuke secrets went missing?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Grande_Fire

The Cerro Grande Fire was a disastrous forest fire in New Mexico, United States of America, that occurred in May 2000. The fire started as a controlled burn, and became uncontrolled owing to high winds and drought conditions.

Over 400 families in the town of Los Alamos, New Mexico, lost their homes in the resulting 48,000-acre (190 km²) fire. Structures at Los Alamos National Laboratory were also destroyed or damaged, although without loss or destruction of any of the special nuclear material housed there. Amazingly, there was no loss of human life. The US General Accounting Office estimated total damages at $1 billion.


http://www.autentico.org/oa09454.php
LOS ALAMOS NUCLEAR SECRETS MISSING
by Joseph Hebert

WASHINGTON (June 12 2000) - Two computer hard drives containing an array of nuclear secrets have disappeared from a highly secured vault at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, prompting a top-level investigation, laboratory and Energy Department officials disclosed Monday.

Energy Department officials first learned that the nuclear secrets and other sensitive material were missing on June 1 and have not ruled out the possibility that the disappearance is related to the forest fire that threatened the lab and forced its evacuation last month.

Senior officials expressed doubt that it involved espionage.

''This is an extremely serious matter, and we are taking swift actions to deal with it,'' said John Browne, director of the federal nuclear weapons research lab. The facility was embroiled in an espionage controversy involving a former lab scientist for much of last year.

The two hard drives, each slightly larger than a deck of cards, contained material used by the Nuclear Emergency Search Team, or NEST, which is trained to respond to nuclear accidents or threat of terrorism. They contain detailed nuclear weapons data needed to render weapons safe in an emergency or as part of a threat by terrorists.

''It's very sensitive ... technical data,'' said retired Air Force Gen. Eugene Habiger, the Energy Department's top security official. He briefed Energy Secretary Bill Richardson on the disappearance Monday after a week-long investigation and search at the Los Alamos lab.

Habiger said in an interview that it is too early to determine what happened to the two hard drives.

But he said he has not ruled out the possibility that the materials might have been misplaced or destroyed during the confusion last month caused by the threat from a wildfire that destroyed much of the community of Los Alamos.

[ after the material had been copied - the drives were found .... ]

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/06/16/losalamos.disks/
Missing nuclear secrets found behind Los Alamos copy machine
June 16, 2000
 
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two missing computer hard drives containing sensitive nuclear weapons data from the Los Alamos National Laboratory have been recovered, federal authorities announced Friday

The drives were found behind a copy machine in a secure area of the laboratory that had previously been searched, sources told CNN
...


Oh now over ten years later were on fire AGAIN! ....

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/new-mexico-wildfires-force-evacuation-los-alamos-nuclear-labratory-article-1.129481
New Mexico wildfires force evacuation at Los Alamos nuclear labratory
By Lukas I. Alpert  / DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Monday, June 27, 2011, 8:14 AM..

Raging wildfires in New Mexico forced the evacuation of the famed nuclear lab at Los Alamos Monday, though officials insist that radioactive material is secure.

Fires have burned as close as one mile from the government lab - threatening buildings, power lines and gas lines, officials said.

"Lab emergency crews have been dispatched across the lab to protect key facilities and materials," said lab spokesman Jeff Berger.

"Protected areas include all hazardous and radioactive facilities and our proton accelerator and super-computing centers."

About 100 non-essential personnel were cleared from the area around the lab, where the first atomic bomb was built.

Gov. Susanna Martinez toured the lab's emergency operations center late Sunday and ordered the state National Guard to the area.

http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/06/28/6963132-mandatory-evacuation-ordered-as-blaze-threatens-los-alamos?lite
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2013, 01:13:01 PM »
Rim fire - Now the Sequoias are going up in flames along with all those peoples homes that live in the country side.
The Agenda 21 policies keep giving and giving...


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/25/yosemite-wildfire-strong-winds
Yosemite wildfire could worsen as firefighters brace for strong winds
Massive blaze burning in the vicinity of two ancient sequoia groves while thousands of rural homes also under threat


Inmate firefighters walk along state Highway 120 as firefighters continue to battle the Rim Fire near Yosemite. Photograph: Jae C Hong/AP

Firefighters braced for strong winds that could push a raging wildfire further into the north-west edge of Yosemite national park, threatening thousands of rural homes.

The massive blaze was also burning Sunday in the vicinity of two groves of giant sequoias that are unique the region, prompting park employees to take extra precautions of clearing brush and setting sprinklers.

The towering trees, which grow only on the western slopes of the Sierra Nevada and are among the largest and oldest living things on earth, can resist fire. However, dry conditions and heavy brush are forcing park officials to take extra precautions in the Tuolumne and Merced groves. About three dozen of the trees are affected.

"All of the plants and trees in Yosemite are important, but the giant sequoias are incredibly important both for what they are and as symbols of the National Park System," park spokesman Scott Gediman said Saturday.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2013, 06:44:46 PM »
Yosemite Rim Fire now a "crown fire"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2013/aug/24/wildfire-threatens-yosemite-national-park#/?picture=415808432&index=0
Wildfire threatens Yosemite national park – in pictures

Firefighters struggle to contain a huge wildfire that has crossed into California's Yosemite national park. The part of the park frequented by tourists remains open, but a state of emergency has been declared for San Fransisco, because of the threat to the city's power and water supplies

theguardian.com, Sunday 25 August 2013 09.45 EDT


A pine tree goes up in flames

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57599999/rim-fire-udpate-massive-yosemite-fire-creating-its-own-weather-pattern/
...

The high winds and movement of the fire from bone-dry brush on the ground to 100-foot oak and pine treetops have created dire conditions.
"A crown fire is much more difficult to fight," Berlant told The Associated Press Sunday. "Our firefighters are on the ground having to spray up."
...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/25/wildfire-san-francisco-yosemite-crown-fire
Wildfire containment efforts complicated by 'crown fire'

Biggest blaze in state history spreads across forest canopy in Yosemite national park as firefighters struggle to divert flames

Rory Carroll in Los Angeles
theguardian.com, Sunday 25 August 2013 17.22 EDT   

A total of 8,300 firefighters are battling nearly 400 square miles of fires across California.

Flames which leap across treetops creating a "crown fire" are complicating efforts to contain a huge wildfire in and around California's Yosemite national park.

The blaze raced across forest canopy as well as at ground level on Sunday, confronting firefighters with multiple challenges as the fire ravaged 207 square miles, one of the biggest in the state's history.

Helicopters and air tankers were supporting teams on the ground to try to contain and divert flames which threatened the Pine Mountain Lake community, said InciWeb, an inter-agency emergency services site.

"Direct attack is being used in some areas of the fire and more will be utilized as firefighters gain safe access." In steep, inaccessible terrain crews were using "indirect attack" to divert the blaze, it said.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2013, 09:02:10 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqJCJHDN-QU
WRCFresnoTV -- Show 34 -- Agenda 21/Aspen Fire - July 31 2013 -- G. Edward Griffin -- Jon Gold
WeAreChangeFresno76
Published on Aug 17, 2013 

WRCFresnoTV -- Show 34 -- Agenda 21/Aspen Fire -- G. Edward Griffin -- Jon Gold -- Peace, Love & Liberty

Sam and Charlie have a panel discussion with G.I. Jim and Carol Funkner about the Aspen Fire, Agenda 21 and how to stop the new world order.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2013, 07:11:10 PM »
So there are not ENOUGH fires yet for Agenda 21 !!!

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=81919


On August 22, 2013, the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) on NASA’s Aqua satellite acquired this image of the drought-fueled Rim fire burning in central California, near Yosemite National Park.

Red outlines indicate hot spots where MODIS detected unusually warm surface temperatures associated with fires. Winds blew a thick smoke plume toward the northeast. A smaller fire—American fire—burned to the north. The lower image is a photograph that shows the fire burning at night on August 21.

Started on August 17, 2013, the fast-moving fire had already charred more than 100,000 acres (40,000 hectares) by August 23, despite the efforts of more than 2,000 firefighters. Hundreds of people were forced to evacuate their homes, and roads in the area were closed. As of August 23, no structures had been reported destroyed, but the fire threatened the towns of Groveland and Pine Mountain Lake.

By late August, wildfires had burned 3.4 million acres in the United States, making 2013 somewhat less active than other recent years.

Over the last decade, fires charred 5.7 million acres on average by August 22, according to statistics published the National Interagency Fire Center[/b].
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2013, 09:11:35 PM »


  Report from Yellowstone National Park

  We went there yesterday  8-25-2013

  Only a few acres on fire---nothing big YET

  We have been blessed with quite a bit of rain.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2013, 11:13:48 PM »
We have been blessed with quite a bit of rain.

That’s usually what puts it out. That and a sharp rise in relative humidity. A lot of people don’t realize that wildfires are naturally occurring thanks to Smoky the Bear constantly wagging the finger at us. “Only you can prevent forest fires” is a boldfaced lie. It’s part of that cycle of life thing and needs to happen from time to time. Burn areas soon experience regrowth to allow a different habitat for different species of plants and animals. It was happening long before humans ever decided to try to control it.

Forestry can dump tons of retardant and buckets of water on such a large fire. They can doze fire breaks all day long. But all they’ll manage to do is possibly steer it a little and protect structures. They’re not going to put it out if the weather conditions are ripe for extreme fire behavior – low rh, fire  traveling uphill, dry fuel, etc.

Ultimately nature decides when fires start and when they stop. Whether humans control the weather or not is a different rabbit trail though.
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2013, 10:12:07 AM »
That’s usually what puts it out. That and a sharp rise in relative humidity. A lot of people don’t realize that wildfires are naturally occurring thanks to Smoky the Bear constantly wagging the finger at us. “Only you can prevent forest fires” is a boldfaced lie. It’s part of that cycle of life thing and needs to happen from time to time. Burn areas soon experience regrowth to allow a different habitat for different species of plants and animals. It was happening long before humans ever decided to try to control it.

Forestry can dump tons of retardant and buckets of water on such a large fire. They can doze fire breaks all day long. But all they’ll manage to do is possibly steer it a little and protect structures. They’re not going to put it out if the weather conditions are ripe for extreme fire behavior – low rh, fire  traveling uphill, dry fuel, etc.

Ultimately nature decides when fires start and when they stop. Whether humans control the weather or not is a different rabbit trail though.

  Thank you for the info.  We are still relatively hot here in Montana---90's every day.

  Yes I knew that most of these fires are caused by lightning.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2013, 10:57:14 AM »
more history: Logging and timber industry is now 25 percent of what (on federal lands) it was in 1980's:

http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=5319
U.S. Forest Service protects the northern spotted owl by limiting timber sales on August 7, 1986.
By David Wilma, February 28, 2003

On August 7, 1986, the U.S. Forest Service acts to protect the northern spotted owl (Strix occidentalis caurina ) from decline and extinction by limiting timber sales in mature portions of National Forests, which the animals need to live. The immediate impact is outcry from the forest products industry and from environmentalists.  The industry complains that the measure goes too far and will cost thousands of jobs, and environmentalists claim that not enough is being done to protect the species.

This is one in a long series of governmental actions and court decisions that will result in a reduction of more than 75 percent of the timber harvested annually from public lands.

Beginning in the early 1970s, biologists in Oregon recognized that the northern spotted owl needed old-growth forests (200-year-old forests that had never been logged or burned) for their habitats. The scientists estimated that one pair of owls needed hundreds of acres of forest habitat to survive.  The spotted owl was regarded as an indicator species, one whose numbers reflected the health of other species and the forest ecosystem. In 1976, the National Forest Management Act required the U.S. Forest Service to make plans for the maintenance of "viable populations of existing native and desired non-native vertebrate species in the planning area.”

In 1984, the Forest Service developed an environmental impact statement and a forest management plan that required forest managers to consider owl habitat in the sales of timber. This placed in jeopardy the supply of logs for logging companies and lumber mills. The reduced number of logs had an economic impact in the entire forest products industry and in dozens of communities in the Northwest.

In 1986, the Forest Service proposed to withhold from sale 2,200 acres of forest for each of the 512 known nesting pairs of owls. This launched a debate over whether the measures were too restrictive on the forest products industry or not enough to protect the owls, with conflicting arguments and contradictory evidence. After much discussion and public comment, a final management plan was adopted in December 1987.

Endangered Species Act

Also in December 1987, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service declined to list the northern spotted owl under the Endangered Species Act. Environmentalists sued the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) to list the species. In the litigation, the agency admitted that it had taken into account economics and politics in its decision not to list. By law, economics and politics are not to be considered in listing a species.

In June 1989, the Fish and Wildlife Service proposed listing the owl as threatened under the Endangered Species Act. Most Northwest timber sales simply stopped and loggers and mill workers were laid off.

Loggers and mill workers blamed environmentalists and the owl for the loss of jobs. Environmentalists blamed mechanization and log exports for the unemployment. Protests grew violent in some areas. Courts entered the dispute with decisions to resume or halt timber sales. The losing side appealed nearly every decision.

On June 26, 1990, the Fish and Wildlife Service formally listed the northern spotted owl as "threatened" under the Endangered Species Act throughout Oregon, Washington, and California. This impacted private and tribal lands in addition to federal lands since any "taking" of a species anywhere was prohibited. Taking included the loss of any habitat. The Fish and Wildlife Service delayed implementation until plans could be developed.

Judge Dwyer's Decision

On March 7, 1991, U.S. District Court Judge William Dwyer (1929-2002) ruled that the Forest Service Management Plan was inadequate under the law. By that time logging in National Forests had been cut by 50 percent.

In April 1994, the Clinton Administration presented Judge Dwyer with the Northwest Forest Plan that preserved 70 percent of federally owned old-growth forests -- reducing timber sales to less than a fourth of the 1980s. In addition the plan provided for restoration of watersheds that had been damaged by logging operations. Both sides in the dispute objected to the plan and went to court. In December 1994, Judge Dwyer held that the Northwest Forest Plan complied with the 1976 National Forest Management Act.

http://www.oregon.gov/odf/privateforests/docs/spottedowl.pdf

...
How Are Private Landowners Affected?
Less than ten percent of spotted owl habitat in Oregon is thought to exist on private forest land. All landowners and operators are required to follow the state requirements and avoid a “taking” as prohibited by the federal Endangered Species Act.

A taking is defined as harming, killing, pursuing or capturing a threatened or endangered species. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has established four guidelines that assist landowners and operators to avoid a taking. The federal Endangered Species Act creates different expectations for federal and private land. On federal
land, the act requires full measures be taken to provide recovery of a species. On private land, the act prohibits a taking of a threatened or endangered species. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is responsible for administering and enforcing the federal Endangered Species Act.


Oh there a " Mexican spotted owl too!!!


http://www.fws.gov/southwest/es/MSO_CH_overview_map_lg.html


Interesting comment :
http://www.opb.org/news/article/new-critical-habitat-map-out-for-spotted-owl/
New 'Critical Habitat' Map Out For Spotted Owl

OPB | Nov. 21, 2012 9:37 p.m. | Updated: Nov. 23, 2012 1:25 a.m. | Portland, Oregon

Erica  
• 9 months ago  △ ▽

Mr Partin,

Why did the barred owls move into their habitat? And why do devastating wild fires occur? The more forest you remove, the more barred owls you will see. They like open areas.....unlike the NSO that likes dense forest canopy. We removed a bunch of forest, so our solution should be to remove even more forest because the barred owls are going to win anyway? Awww, shucks! Makes total sense. Might as well chop the whole forest down so it doesn't catch on fire!! I mean, fire does nothing good in the woods, right?

Mind blowing to me that someone from the "American Forest Resource Council" is trying to deny the chain reaction of deforestation. 9 million acres is too much? What is the right amount? Mr. Partin and the timber industry don't care. What people care about is money NOW, you can't replace OGF, and your logging jobs will come and go in a flash (there is no longevity in logging old growth). Just remember, the NSO is a keystone species.....it's not just it alone, that's disappearing.

http://www.fws.gov/pacific/ecoservices/nsofch.html

2008 Final Revised Critical Habitat for the   Northern Spotted Owl



http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2012/11/obama_administration_increases.html
Obama administration increases 'critical habitat' for northern spotted owl

By  Scott Learn, The Oregonian  
on November 21, 2012 at 10:27 AM, updated November 21, 2012 at 7:19 PM

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service designated 9.6 million acres of critical habitat for  the northern spotted owl this morning, nearly double the last designation in 2008.

The acreage in Oregon, Washington and California won't be off limits to logging. But the service's decision requires heightened federal review of logging projects on lands owned by the U.S. Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, the bulk of the designated land.

The northern spotted owl has been at the center of the Northwest's timber wars since it was listed as threatened in 1990 under the Endangered Species Act.
...
Harvests in Oregon's federal forests totaled a half-billion board feet last year, down from 2.5 billion to 5 billion board feet in the 1980s.

Timber industry groups warned the expanded critical habitat could dampen efforts to increase logging on BLM lands in southwest Oregon, where rural counties are banking on revenues from increased timber sales.

The expanded area is also likely to increase lawsuits from environmental groups on individual timber sales across the spotted owl's range, said Jim Geisinger, executive vice president of Associated Oregon Loggers.
...

Tom Partin, president of the American Forest Resource Council, called the service's decision "flawed." It included land that doesn't host spotted owls, he said, and isn't necessary for owl conservation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscuit_Fire

The Biscuit Fire was a wildfire that took place in 2002 that burned nearly 500,000 acres (2,000 km²) in the Siskiyou National Forest in southern Oregon and northern California, in the Western United States. The fire was named after Biscuit Creek in southern Oregon.



...
Since the fire, the United States Forest Service has been trying to log most of the severely burnt area, despite ecologists' concerns about the Port Orford Cedar, which is threatened from a root fungus that is most commonly spread on car tires and shoes. This will be the largest recorded timber sale in U.S. history, and a landmark case setting the future for all fires in national forests. The cost of salvage logging far outweighed the proceeds from sales (-$1.9 million).

In 2006, a research paper on the effects of post-wildfire salvage logging caused a controversy within the forest sciences community.

http://rense.com/general34/sdsee.htm
Severe Oregon Fire Erased  Much Spotted Owl Habitat
 By Beth Quinn
 Correspondent - The Oregonian
 1-27-3

GRANTS PASS -- The Biscuit fire destroyed three of every four trees across hundreds of thousands of acres in the Siskiyou National Forest, much of it old- growth habitat for the northern spotted owl that was at the heart of battles between loggers and environmentalist 20 years ago.   
...
To jump-start the creation of new owl habitat, the Siskiyou Forest will consider opening 36,568 acres of late successional reserve to salvage logging as well as 15,150 acres already open to commercial harvest.  In addition, dead trees " considered hazards will be removed from campgrounds, fire lines and up to 300 miles of forest road. Foresters say removing dead trees and replanting areas where some old-growth trees survive would regrow forests that might support owls in 80 to 100 years

 But environmental groups plan to challenge salvage logging projects because most of the trees are with - in roadless areas. "We definitely have a problem with any kind of logging in roadless areas, late successional reserves or wild river corridors," said Barbara "Ullian of Cave Junction-based Siskiyou Regional Education Project. "They're trying to push the time- lines. They don't want to wait for the natural succession to happen, for the shrubs and brush species to establish themselves and then the conifers come up through the brush.   The threat of delays caused by such challenges and the extra costs involved in helicopter logging won't deter comrnercial loggers long-starved of the Sisikyou's famed 24-inch and larger Douglas fir trees, said Dave Hill of the Southern Oregon Timber Industries Association.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »


  Thanks for the spotted owl info TahoeBlue.

  Habitats for birds are SOME OF THE BIGGEST SCAMS OUT THERE.  A BIRD CAN GO TO A NEW HABITAT BETTER THAN ANY ANIMAL BECAUSE THE HAVE WINGS.

  More BS from the government and other weirdoes.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline One Revelator

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2013, 12:39:38 PM »
Looks like some good news for the Yosemite fire.

Quote
Yosemite Fire Update: Crews Finally Make Progress   

By: Brian Skoloff and Tracie Cone
Published: August 27, 2013

TUOLUMNE CITY, Calif.  -- Crews are finally gaining ground on a massive wildfire burning near Yosemite National Park as fire officials expressed optimism even as the blaze grew larger while containment jumped to 20 percent.

As flames lapped at the edge of the main reservoir that supplies San Francisco, fears that the inferno could disrupt water or power to the city diminished.

"It looks great out there. No concerns," Glen Stratton, an operations section chief on the blaze, said of the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir.

Nearly 3,700 firefighters battled the roughly 252-square-mile fire, the biggest wildfire on record in California's Sierra Nevada.

"A slight chance of thunderstorms is in the forecast for Tuesday and a flash flood watch is in effect for the burn area," said weather.com meteorologist Chris Dolce. "Although any rainfall would be helpful if storms do develop, the shifting winds associated with the storms could make firefighting conditions more difficult. The increased moisture will also keep humidity levels higher."

Crews remained confident they could protect hydroelectric transmission lines and other utility facilities at the reservoir, the chief source of San Francisco's famously pure drinking water.

"I don't foresee any problems," Stratton said.

More:
http://www.wunderground.com/news/yosemite-fire-progress-20130827
The number one cause of all human poverty, misery, and death is not global warming. It’s GLOBAL LYING.

Online TahoeBlue

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2013, 12:55:37 PM »
Looks like some good news for the Yosemite fire.


yes, there's nothing left to burn ... fire is hitting natural fire breaks....
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2013, 01:15:56 PM »
yes, there's nothing left to burn ... fire is hitting natural fire breaks....

  Good news for the San francisco area.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline chris jones

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2013, 04:30:03 PM »
  Thanks for the spotted owl info TahoeBlue.
  Habitats for birds are SOME OF THE BIGGEST SCAMS OUT THERE.  A BIRD CAN GO TO A NEW HABITAT BETTER THAN ANY ANIMAL BECAUSE THE HAVE WINGS.
  More BS from the government and other weirdoes.
           Just after the Gulf war I had a meeting with a guy from another country. Somewhere in the conversation he mentioned the Gulf War and held up a magazine with a seagull laying on an oil soaked beach. He said- laughingly, they care more about some seagulls than the humans..
  I didn't like this guy, it was business only, but I do remember feeling at a loss for words.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2013, 04:14:21 AM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/28/officials-say-yosemite-fire-unlikely-to-cause-disruptions-at-sf-bay-area-chief/

  Hey, I thought this fire at Yosemite was suppose to be out or contained yesterday.

Fast-moving grass fire threatens homes in California, as crews continue to battle Yosemite blaze

A fast-moving wildfire has burned at least two homes and is threatening dozens more in a crowded Northern California neighborhood, as officials elsewhere in the state hope cooler temperatures will help in the fight against a blaze near Yosemite National Park.

A fire department dispatcher in Fairfield, about 40 miles northeast of San Francisco, says two houses on Marigold Drive near Interstate 80 are engulfed in flames and nearby homes are being evacuated. The local fire department is getting help from the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.

Meanwhile, crews battling the massive wildfire near Yosemite are anticipating the temperatures and higher humidity this week may allow them to gain an upper hand in containing it.

The Rim Fire -- which is is threatening thousands of structures and historic giant sequoias -- remained 20 percent contained Tuesday.

The fire had ravaged 288 square miles by Tuesday night, the biggest in the Sierra's recorded history and one of the largest on record in California. Nearly 3,700 firefighters are currently battling the blaze, which is also a record.

As flames lapped at the edge of the main reservoir that supplies San Francisco, fears that the inferno could disrupt water or power to the city diminished. On Tuesday the fire moved into the watershed, which increases the chances of sediment runoff this winter.

"It looks great out there. No concerns," Glen Stratton, an operations section chief on the blaze, said of the Hetch Hetchy Reservoir.

Crews remained confident Tuesday that they could protect hydroelectric transmission lines and other utility facilities at the reservoir, the chief source of San Francisco's famously pure drinking water.

"I don't foresee any problems," Stratton said.

Utility officials monitored the basin's clarity and used a massive new $4.6 billion gravity-operated pipeline system to move water quickly to reservoirs closer to the city.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

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Re: The West on Fire - Forest and Timber Mis-Management and Agenda 21
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2013, 11:25:11 AM »
Bring in the drone...  bring in the predator drone ,,,, notice that although contained many more square miles are burned

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/predator-drone-deployed-rim-fire-fight-article-1.1440190
Predator drone joins Rim Fire fight as Yosemite blaze spreads

The unmanned aircraft will report flare-ups in real time to ground commanders. The California National Guard pilots the Predator from hundreds of miles away, providing new data on the raging wildfire.
 
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Thursday, August 29, 2013, 8:39 AM


GROVELAND, Calif. — As crews advanced against a giant wildfire around Yosemite National Park, fire commanders said they would maintain use of a Predator drone to give them early views of any new flare-ups across in the remote and rugged landscape.

The Rim Fire expanded to 301 square miles, but crews had a productive day Wednesday and containment increased to 30 percent. Cooler temperatures and lighter winds aided the firefighters.

Increasingly confident fire officials said they expect to fully surround the blaze in three weeks, although it will burn for much longer than that.

“We continue to get line around this fire,” California fire spokesman Daniel Berlant said. “It’s not nearly as active as it was last week.”

The California National Guard drone deployed Wednesday was being remotely piloted hundreds of miles away, allowing ground commanders to keep an eye out for new fires they otherwise wouldn’t have immediately seen.

...

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2013-260
NASA 'Eyes' Dissect California's Massive Rim Fire

August 27, 2013

The Rim Fire burning in and near Yosemite National Park in California continues to grow and move its way up in the record books. As of Aug. 27, CAL FIRE (California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection) reports that the fire, which started Aug. 17, had consumed nearly 180,000 acres, making it the seventh largest wildfire in California's recorded history. The fire is one of 10 active major wildfires burning across California as of Aug. 27.

 New satellite images from NASA's Aqua and Terra spacecraft illustrate some of the many facets of the fire's effects on the landscape and atmosphere. The fire's plume of carbon monoxide pollution is shown in a new image from Aqua's Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) instrument. The still image was acquired Aug. 26.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=PIA17427


NASA's Aqua Spacecraft Images Pollution from California's Rim Fire

The plume of carbon monoxide pollution from the Rim Fire burning in and near Yosemite National Park, Calif., is visible in this Aug. 26, 2013 image from the Atmospheric Infrared Sounder (AIRS) instrument on NASA's Aqua spacecraft. The image shows a three-day running average of daily measurements of carbon monoxide present at an altitude of 18,000 feet (5.5 kilometers), as well as its global transport. The abundance of carbon monoxide is shown in parts per billion, with the highest concentrations shown in yellows and reds. The carbon monoxide plume from the Rim fire now extends into Canada. Even more prominent in the image are the carbon monoxide emissions from widespread agricultural fires in Africa and South America, and fires in the northern forests of Asia


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-rim-fire-containment-20130828,0,2975657.story
Rim fire spreading more slowly; containment expected in 2 weeks


By Robert J. Lopez and Julie Cart
August 29, 2013, 2:00 a.m.

The rate of spread of the massive Rim fire near Yosemite National Park has slowed in recent days and firefighters expect to have it fully contained by Sept. 10, officials said.

"That's given us a greater opportunity to get in there and strengthen our containment lines," he told The Times.

He said fire commanders expect full containment of the blaze in the next two weeks.

Last week, the fire burned 30,000 acres in a 24-hour span and 50,000 acres in another 24-hour span, Berlant said. But in the last two days, the rate of fire spread has slowed to 10,000 acres one day and 5,000 on another

Incident Cmdr. Mike Wilkins requested the MQ-1 aircraft belonging to the California Air National Guard. The remotely piloted plane began flying Wednesday morning. It continued on a 20-hour mission throughout the day, alerting crews to a spot fire and providing a more comprehensive fire map.

The drone, about the size of a small Cessna plane, takes off from the Victorville Airport and is operated from March Air Reserve Base in Riverside, said Lt. Col. Tom Keegan of the National Guard.

Unmanned aircraft have been used sparingly on fires but are gaining traction as a cheaper, more efficient tool for fire bosses to better understand where fires are going and how they are behaving.

They are especially prized for their ability to beam real-time pictures directly to fire bosses, who can make tactical adjustments more quickly. The aircraft are equipped with infared heat sensors and a swiveling camera operated by a remote pilot.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MQ-1_Predator_unmanned_aircraft.jpg

MQ-1 Predator unmanned aircraft. (U.S. Air Force photo/Lt Col Leslie Pratt)
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5