Pentagon: What happened on 9/11

[Weston White]

And here we have a perfect example of someone who supports the 9/11 debunkers who say, it was a giant conspiracy involving thousands of people. We have planted lightpoles, which means someone planted them and no one saw this. Of course you have no evidence of this it's just something you made up, but in your eyes, that's good enough. Of course we do have evidence that they were knocked over by a plane as dozens of witnesses have said. But since your ego wont allow you to consider that you could be wrong, this is dismissed, because protecting your fragile ego is more important than the truth, which makes you irrelevant. And for some reason you want to claim LLoyd England is involved in the crime of the century. He has to be according to you since he is the elderly black cab driver who had the lightpole crash through his windshield. He drove this cab in this area for 30 years, which evidently means nothing to you. And what did he gain? Well, I'd say nothing according to this article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4111-2004Feb1?language=printer

Which makes you rather pathetic to accuse this poor guy of being a mass murderer. I guess I've been wasting time going after the CIA and the whitehouse, when we have this dangerous elderly cab driver on the loose....

LLoyd England? Who said he was a murder now? Oh yea that was you and your delusional reasoning, right! Who cares about LLoyd England, really? At worst he is a liar that played a small part of 9/11 facade "terrorist" fantasy story and at the most he likely knows next to nothing about anything 9/11 related. All I can say is look at his vehicle, the only thing damaged is the windshield, how do you explain that? You can't!

A light pole gets knocked down by a passing ~500 KMPH object and then it bounces out of his moving vehicle and lands backwards? WTF! He does not get any injuries from the large object smashing through the center of his entire windshield? WTF! He comes to a perfect stop within 100 feet in the middle of a multi-lane expressway without causing a single accident and without skidding and he comes to a complete stop right in front of the next fallen light pole and with his vehicle blocking all three lanes of travel (from my research a vehicle going 45+ MPH is not able to stop gracefully in that short of a distance)? WTF!

Besides LLoyd England himself stated he saw, felt, and heard no plane passing, he only heard an explosion about 15-30 seconds later, so in that logic the 757 must have gone into cloak mode, switched on its anti-gravity field and then time warped for that 15-30 seconds and then reappeared already inside the Pentagon, which would also explain why you are not able to see the 757 passing by on the released footage. Yea see now it all makes sense to me, thanks for the awakening.

[jimd3100]

LLoyd England? Who said he was a murder now? Oh yea that was you and your delusional reasoning, right! Who cares about LLoyd England, really? At worst he is a liar that played a small part of 9/11 facade "terrorist" fantasy story and at the most he likely knows next to nothing about anything 9/11 related. All I can say is look at his vehicle, the only thing damaged is the windshield, how do you explain that? You can't!

A light pole gets knocked down by a passing ~500 KMPH object and then it bounces out of his moving vehicle and lands backwards? WTF! He does not get any injuries from the large object smashing through the center of his entire windshield? WTF! He comes to a perfect stop within 100 feet in the middle of a multi-lane expressway without causing a single accident and without skidding and he comes to a complete stop right in front of the next fallen light pole and with his vehicle blocking all three lanes of travel (from my research a vehicle going 45+ MPH is not able to stop gracefully in the short of a distance)? WTF!

Besides LLoyd England himself stated he saw, felt, and heard no plane passing, he only heard an explosion about 15-30 seconds later, so in that logic the 757 must have gone into cloak mode by then and then time warped for that 15-30 seconds and then reappeared already inside the Pentagon, which would also explain why you are not able to see the 757 passing by on the released footage. Yea see now it all makes sense to me, thanks for the awakening.

You have done an excellent job of exposing the perpetrators of 9/11 we must notify the authorities of this dangerous elderly cab driver. Maybe they can get him to talk. Perhaps he himself is the mastermind of 9/11. And you call me delusional.LOL.

[Weston White]

No there's not. There are edits. Is it really that hard for you to face reality. He was there and saw a big jet hit. Now you have to call him a mass murdering liar.

So you discount the counter reports that do not share your view of this incident, either then, is this correct? Though this somehow forces me to paint everybody as a murdering liar? I think I understand now.

Actually, I feel that all civilian witnesses can do and say what they like, they are free Americans and hold no obligation so say the truth, lie, remain silent, or a combination of three. In actuality who knows to what faith or morals they hold their allegiances or obligations, so what they do or say means little to me, they hold no higher oath or obligation to me or to you. At best their testomy is worth a footnote one way or the other (in support or against the mountian of available evidence).

It is obvious that the witnesses, give conflicting information, this I realize, so I do not really play the witnesses said this and witnesses said that game, rather I focus on logic and what makes sense, the governments conflicting claims as well as their complete lack of accountability, not to mention the visible evidence and laws of physics, common sense, etc.

[Weston White]

You have done an excellent job of exposing the perpetrators of 9/11 we must notify the authorities of this dangerous elderly cab driver. Maybe they can get him to talk. Perhaps he himself is the mastermind of 9/11. And you call me delusional.LOL.

What are you talking about? Sorry, you lost me now.

[Amishism]

What about the TREES?!!

[Weston White]

Do you have the relative dementions of where the wings should have chopped the trees in half? Given the angle and position of the aircraft upon approach? Wow, I never even noticed the trees before, except for that one in the released footage. lol

[Brocke]

What about the TREES?!!

Here are some images, they don't show the trees well though.

http://photo.livevideo.com/photo/22BA20E12E004C7B9BB02547ED6B669F/pentagon-damage-september-11-2001-1-of-6.aspx

[Weston White]

...involving thousands of people.

Do you really think that an agency such as Blackwater USA would have any qualms about serving as the "man handlers/henchmen/labor/crew” in an event such as 9/11? Also, come on 1000’s, that is somewhat overzealous isn’t it? I would say so.

[Weston White]

The (what appears to be) far tree on the right looks well clear of the right wing of the aircraft, but the other I can't really see in those photos, it looks like they have been removed through, one way or the other (meaning they could have been precut, I don't recall seeing trees lying down in any photos of the scattered "aircraft" equipment through).

[Brocke]

Do you really think that an agency such as Blackwater USA would have any qualms about serving as the "man handlers/henchmen/labor/crew” in an event such as 9/11? Also, come on 1000’s, that is somewhat overzealous isn’t it? I would say so.

It wouldn't take much to silence many people. Most witnesses would not be sure what they saw and with a little coaching from Homeland Security/NSA/DOD/FBI they would "remember" what they were supposed to. Those that were insistent that they saw something other than the official story would be sworn (threatened) to silence. The rest of the masses would be fed the desired story through the regular channels (MSM). After that all you have to do is "plug" any leaks.

I'm sure this happens all the time.

[abbadon]

It wouldn't take much to silence many people. Most witnesses would not be sure what they saw and with a little coaching from Homeland Security/NSA/DOD/FBI they would "remember" what they were supposed to. Those that were insistent that they saw something other than the official story would be sworn (threatened) to silence. The rest of the masses would be fed the desired story through the regular channels (MSM). After that all you have to do is "plug" any leaks.

I'm sure this happens all the time.

best way to discredit eyewitnesses is to say a diffrent story, if there is 4 diffrent stories and diffrent aircraft that rules out eyewitnesses for having any proof, but as jim and biffa(seems they are not truth seekers) they hang on to the fairy tales of a few eyewitnesses. hell lets say its UFOs then we are all wrong.

But its fun that atleast 2 cops saying that the plane did not come from the official direction, so that makes the hole in last ring a big fako.

[jimd3100]

I never said a missile hit pentagon, i was just showing your friend that the eyewitnesses contradict them selfs.

Well, thats the point after all. He never contradicted himself. It is people like you who edit what he said. Which shows us who the liars really are. He claimed from day one that a plane hit the building. And to this very day, you lie about what he said while claiming he is the liar. You are just proving why no one should listen to a thing you say.

[jimd3100]

It is obvious that the witnesses, give conflicting information, this I realize, so I do not really play the witnesses said this and witnesses said that game,

Right, unless they are pentagon police who give the wrong direction of the plane approach, while saying they saw with their own eyes, the plane hit the building.

[abbadon]

Well, thats the point after all. He never contradicted himself. It is people like you who edit what he said. Which shows us who the liars really are. He claimed from day one that a plane hit the building. And to this very day, you lie about what he said while claiming he is the liar. You are just proving why no one should listen to a thing you say.

i never edited anything, you assume too much and making an asshat of yourself now. if you dont have any information stop posting now your just seeking attention. until you get some facts, information thats debatable dont post. And instead of looking at the information your making an aggressive stance on your point which also shows who you are. If it was the dark ages you would still believe the earth was flat huh?

[jimd3100]

i never edited anything, you assume too much and making an asshat of yourself now. if you dont have any information stop posting now your just seeking attention. until you get some facts, information thats debatable dont post. And istead of looking at the information your making an aggressive stance on your point which also shows who you are.

Yes, I appreciate how you point out that I have not shown any facts. Like unedited witness footage, or articles proving your accomplice Lloyd England gained nothing from 9/11, and research proving Stubblebine is an agent, and on and on...these are not facts in your eyes, nothing compared to the "facts" you have posted like planted lightpoles no rush hour traffic, witnesses who are part of the plot and so on. You're a real asset to the "truth" movement.

[abbadon]

Yes, I appreciate how you point out that I have not shown any facts. Like unedited witness footage, or articles proving your accomplice Lloyd England gained nothing from 9/11, and research proving Stubblebine is an agent, and on and on...these are not facts in your eyes, nothing compared to the "facts" you have posted like planted lightpoles no rush hour traffic, witnesses who are part of the plot and so on. You're a real asset to the "truth" movement.

never posted about eyewitnesses being part of a plot(only that people say diffrent things and just because 1 says one thing you dont have to believe it right. Different people diffrent perception and interpretations). havent stated that lightpoles was staged... read the posts fist before you accuse?
you assume to much.
you must be proud of your self

[Biffa]

As far as I can see the only interesting things that have been said are:

Abaddon’s eyewitnesses saying that they saw something other than a plane. clearly at least one of the quotes is a misquote. The first one on the list in fact. It gets even worse, they actually said that they saw planes! Great job! This is why we have to discuss this and not take your word for it

The other thing is what AlexStratus said – the plane could not fly in the way it did, so low to the ground. I admit that I don’t really know how the flight manoueveured in the last minutes. How do we know for example that the plane flew 2 feet off the ground, and didn’t just fly in at a low angle. How do you know this, is this from Pilots’s for 911 truth, or in some report?
Oh I forgot, I’m on the ‘shitlist’.
You say you are a pilot, ok enlighten us some more with your piloting and 911 knowledge and research please.

Biffa, any relation to Hiram Abiff? lol   

That’s a good one 

Is your friend Stubblebine an important source for you?

[abbadon]

As far as I can see the only interesting things that have been said are:

Abaddon’s eyewitnesses saying that they saw something other than a plane. clearly at least one of the quotes is a misquote. The first one on the list in fact. It gets even worse, they actually said that they saw planes! Great job! This is why we have to discuss this and not take your word for it

i never base facts on what people see, do you? it seems so, you seem quite stuck on the eyewitnesses. If i say i saw god this night would you believe me? even some eyewitnesses saying the plane didnt have any windows or marking, some say it was grey or white or even silver. so that rulles out any eyewitnesses since people are saying alot of things that contradict eachother, and as i SAID you cant base witnesses as facts.
"try" to read posts, look at links etc not hard to click. hell you can reply with empty arguments.

http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view2777166.html

[Dig]

Abbadon, If the following is the kind of research you are calling "incontrovertible,"  I would suspect every single one of your posts as disinfo:

Greetings all, love this forum and all the good posts from people.
Some information like FEMA camps, the fiat empire i never know until some few months ago when i started to look around. Digging and digging you put one and one together and there is lies everywhere.

There is so much information from out ancient times warning us what is to come and how it is today.

I can put a nice huge wall of text which ain't stimulating at all right? so i searched and searched and found some vids that explains alot of ancient facts, today and the future and some of my own theories (hope it hasn't been posted here yet).
Alot of info can also be found in books...

I try not to put up so much text here but ill start from the beginning.
But to know what we are up against we must look back, learn from the past.
Some facts and ideas may be far fetched so just have an open mind.

Our creation.

our origin and secrets in our history some basic info about our reptilian gods world over and some info about planet X:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYoLjfZhsVI

There are gold mines that are over 100000 years old in africa...
Before our creation igigi and a lesser subhuman worked for the gods called annunaki, but an rebellion occurred and they where wiped out as those that tried to help us Igigi.
So they created another race which could be easily controlled.
The gods created 2 species of human, one called Adam and the other later one EVA.
We later on was given the gift of reproducing so man got children. Our daughters was pretty and appealing to the annunaki gods so they breeded with them creating the race Nephelim (giants and heroes of old like akilles, herkules, alexander. The giants was huge some even was up to 36ft tall which they found a skeleton in soudi arabia, they where cruel and ate humans so a war broke out leading to wipe of the line of EVA and giants). Even war amongst the annunaki happened, enlil and enki. But they had to make peace becasue of the returning of nibiru (planet x)
So some of them left earth with the minerals and "food" but some stayed behind and was given orders from"anu".
Oh btw after the great flood 3 giants survived 1 of them was goliath.

rank of the gods
Anu (leaders, never came to earth was in heaven)
Annunaki (those from heaven to earth came, before the return of planet x
          they had a big war between them but had a truce when planet x came.)
Igigi (lesser gods)

Here is a 3 part series of the annunaki our reptilian gods:
reptilians amongst us from ancient times to now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paFHBhfIGyI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JvJqZ7vzTw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltsbiS4NV18

This is also about the annunaki and the nephilim
this is a 6 part series containing some new info.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPZXi4n8-58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnfs3qcbtbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4is2kdUVcU0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlZ6GcZWrRk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAIrumWHa1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqxhNLF_AWs

and some information in the future.

some more info about the reptilian gods that is shown everywhere in our history and today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhPXbhSe8M

One fun part is that the reptilians ate humans in a form of sacrifice, look at the rituals in bohemian grove to the owl god Moloch

occult symbols used by the new world order, Illuminati, skull and bones and many more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37Uf7-hmxiI
its everywhere....

Bohemian club
human sacrifice to the god moloch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHz3z0b3fWM

"Moloch, sometimes Ba'al Moloch, known as the Sacred Bull,
was widely worshipped in the ancient Near East and wherever
Punic culture extended (including, but not limited to, the Ammonites,
Edomites and the Moabites). Baal Moloch was conceived under the form of a
calf or an ox or depicted as a man with the head of a bull.

Hadad, Baal or simply the King identified the god within his cult.
The name Moloch is the name he was known by among his worshippers,
but is a Hebrew translation. (MLK has been found on stele at the
infant necropolis in Carthage). The written form Μολώχ Moloch
(in the Septuagint Greek translation of the Old Testament), or Molech
(Hebrew), is the word Melech or king, transformed by interposing the vowels of bosheth or 'shameful thing'."

vid about moloch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMMImXbcj2

He is sometimes also called Milcom in the Old Testament (1 Kings 11:5, 1 Kings 11:33, 2 Kings 23:13 and Zephaniah 1:5)"
some info. this is a bit rogh numbers but in 2001-2005 there where 6000000 missing people in the us which 3/4 was children.


Where does the Illuminati come from?
Freemasonry, first appeared as the knight templars creators of the first ever know banking system.
Mainstream history tells them to be defenders of the weak and the pilgrims, but that isnt correct.
There are alot of facts proven that they had their own agenda. They became stinking rich, the last free pope wanted them all dead so they went underground. What was their goal? holy grael? which shows today it means bloodline, maybe the genetics of the ancient annunaki?
Templars didn't worship jesus nor god but another diety. "baphomet also relates to baal, baal moloch" nice hit hrm also a skull (skull and bones)

well after the almost wiped out of the templas as i said went underground. Freemasonry (lodges) came out in the opened in Scotland at 16th century and in england at 17th century. An grand freemasonry came in France and england at the same time.
Same symbols came up and they spread like a wildfire all over europe and to America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZQXUcqiJvo another nice vid. There is alot of information out there just to look.

The fight americans had for their freedom was primarly to break free fromt he crappy money system they have now (england had it back then also, same system as templar oder).

Founding both north and south in the civil american war.
You can look up about the fiat empire. Good info there how the federal reserve wanted in at ww1 (forced lucitania with ammunition into german waters)  and weapons.
Created the big depression so they could buy all the big banks all over europe, and not only banks.
ww2 was just a test for how well it worked, hitler was a Freemason and a part of the illuminati.
USA sold oil to the germans and hitler put all gold he could find in the "banks later sent out to america"
USA also helped russians in the great war...
Vietnam was staged so they could get more money, no viatnamese PT boat attacked the american ships just lies.
US money went also to the russian factories founding the weapons to the north viatnamese. American wasnt allowed for follow them into neighboring countries, even strict rules for engagement on sam sites(alot more crap there).
Korean war was just a drag out for the banks to earn more money (both sides got US money)...
There is alot more information and i feel like hitting my head against the wall sometimes because there is too much of it.

Bush did like hitler to stage an "attack" on their own lands as an excuse to attack.
Afghanistan, Iraq (lots and lots of money)
The chaos in iraq gives alot of money still (staging false attacks like the 2 SAS men dressed up as arabs shooting the civilians).
The assassination in pakistan an excuse to send troops there (will come)

American national guard leaving america leaving it the hands of the illuminati/NWO/annunaki.

what may happen?
Directive 51, civilian labor camps orders (210-35)
as an example...

someone is just waiting for the go signal, maybe year 2008 but looking as they are hurrying their plans it might be soon.
plans? maybe nuking large population sites, keeping the chaos to a minimum, putting survivors in camps getting registers and implanted. perhaps.
Europe? alot of chemtrails these recent years myabe an viral infection killing almost everyone.

i could be wrong i could be right but there is alot of info, some insane but could be all logic.
Hope i didnt waste your time, and sorry for all the typos im just a silly swede that cant speak English hehe.
Be happy to mail or add me(msn)

[abbadon]

Abbadon, If the following is the kind of research you are calling "incontrovertible,"  I would suspect every single one of your posts as disinfo:

information about ancient history are just theories i never stated it as pure facts.

what does that post have to do with pentagon?
just lame posting something diffrent than the subject.
and what was disinformataion there?
Posting about a possible theory makes every post of diffrent subjects disinfo? lol

[jimd3100]

This was promoted by 'bedroom activists' like Dylan Avery, and NWO shills like Stubblebine. I notice for example, that Alex Jones has spotted it (the pentagon) for the red herring that it is for years and has said as much.

You seem to me to be a reasonable person, and I agree with most of what you say. But about Avery.......I too had some problems with some stuff in his films, and I sometimes wonder about his judgement because of some of his associates that he has had....however, I've come to the conclusion at this point that he and Bermas are legitimate truth seekers. I don't know these guys but have followed their work and with each new movie they get better and better...which shows me instead of defending a theory they have they are willing to go where the evidence takes them. I have a feeling you haven't seen their latest Loose change Final cut movie. I can't find any problems with that one. Because they seem to put the truth in higher regard than defending a theory they might have, I respect that. Take a look at their latest release the final cut and if you find fault with it let me know what it is. I think it shows how the evolution of their movies have progressed, which is a good thing in my eyes.

[Biffa]

information about ancient history are just theories i never stated it as pure facts.

what does that post have to do with pentagon?
just lame posting something diffrent than the subject.
and what was disinformataion there?
Posting about a possible theory makes every post of diffrent subjects disinfo? lol

Where are you from? English clearly isn't your first language.

[Biffa]

You seem to me to be a reasonable person, and I agree with most of what you say. But about Avery.......I too had some problems with some stuff in his films, and I sometimes wonder about his judgement because of some of his associates that he has had....however, I've come to the conclusion at this point that he and Bermas are legitimate truth seekers. I don't know these guys but have followed their work and with each new movie they get better and better...which shows me instead of defending a theory they have they are willing to go where the evidence takes them. I have a feeling you haven't seen their latest Loose change Final cut movie. I can't find any problems with that one. Because they seem to put the truth in higher regard than defending a theory they might have, I respect that. Take a look at their latest release the final cut and if you find fault with it let me know what it is. I think it shows how the evolution of their movies have progressed, which is a good thing in my eyes.

I think they are genuine charecters. But am I right in thinking they tend to come out with a lot of mixed up facts? Haven't they been consistently wrong about a lot of things?

I haven't seen the latest release, but from what I've read it contains the usual errors. NO real dis-respect to them, they've done a tremendous amount to raise awareness that there is quite a lot wrong with the people running their country. I will give it a watch I think, it is free afterall and it can't be worse than the others.
One thing that really annoys me, and it might be a bit petty, but when people don't research anything, but just accept it as the truth. They think that if you argue with them, you just havenet woken up to their theory, and that you need to watch Loose Change. Like Abbadon the foreign speaking troll was behaving like earlier. THERE ARE 100000 year old goldmines in Africa. If you ask him how that is possible though he will more than likely start accusing you of things like insulting him and being a troll.

I haven't watched the new Loose Change yet, but here are some criticisms that I read of it that may interest you, I haven't checked anything out here so people can decide for themselves:

'The film makes the claim that Satam Al Suqami's passport was in his pocket, but of course he has no way of knowing that.

It repeats the claim about the ISI connection and the wire transfer, it ignores the fact that that claim has never been verified came in the weeks of the attack.

They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.

Also it says that Hani Hanjour came to the US to become a pilot but failed to complete any courses, but did not finish them it neglects to mention he already had a license before he came.

It rattles on and on about the f**king wargames, but as I have linked to it before, actually helped to increase response time.

They also, once again, mention that free fall from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds. Then they show a tower collapse with a timer. The collapses started from the impact zones below the roof, so they can not be compared to the collapse times from the top of the towers. And still the collapses took longer than 9.2 seconds. But they still like to use that "suspicious" time.

It repeats the lie about the pentagon missile defenses, the pentagon had no missile defenses on Sept 11th 2001.

They mention the loss of financial information in the Pentagon impact, and then say "Rumsfeld publicly made this announcement" about the untracked $2.3 trillion.

Between September 2000 and June 2001, the FAA scrambled jets to intercept 67 times. Intercepts are routine and usually happen within 10 minutes.

However they provide no evidence to say that loss of financial information had anything to do with the $2.3 trillion. Also the use of the word "announcement" might lead people to think this was new information, when in fact he and others had mentioned it before, and the issue first came up in March 2000.

The film is a crook of shit dressing up conjecture and speculation and pretending it's proof.'

[Biffa]

point is?

POINT>.  WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU FROM? OR WHAT IS YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE?

[abbadon]

POINT>.  WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU FROM? OR WHAT IS YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE?

And why would i say that to you?
What is the motive by wanting to know where i live?
And yes english aint my first language, so?

[Biffa]

And why would i say that to you?
What is the motive by wanting to know where i live?
And yes english aint my first language, so?

Just curious... I see you've taken the pointless circular route of discussion. Tell me, or say that it is not my business if you feel so offended by being asked what you country are from. I am from England. Let me guess, you are from... Iceland.

[abbadon]

Just curious... I see you've taken the pointless circular route of discussion. Tell me, or say that it is not my business if you feel so offended by being asked what you country are from. I am from England. Let me guess, you are from... Iceland.

Why is stating that there wasn't a 757 that crashes into the pentagon is a pointless circular discussion?
Why is it wrong by stating so?

And why are you attacking my English writing??
Why are you so interested of where i live?

[jimd3100]

I haven't watched the new Loose Change yet, but here are some criticisms that I read of it that may interest you, I haven't checked anything out here so people can decide for themselves:

'The film makes the claim that Satam Al Suqami's passport was in his pocket, but of course he has no way of knowing that.

It repeats the claim about the ISI connection and the wire transfer, it ignores the fact that that claim has never been verified came in the weeks of the attack.

They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.

Also it says that Hani Hanjour came to the US to become a pilot but failed to complete any courses, but did not finish them it neglects to mention he already had a license before he came.

It rattles on and on about the f**king wargames, but as I have linked to it before, actually helped to increase response time.

They also, once again, mention that free fall from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds. Then they show a tower collapse with a timer. The collapses started from the impact zones below the roof, so they can not be compared to the collapse times from the top of the towers. And still the collapses took longer than 9.2 seconds. But they still like to use that "suspicious" time.

It repeats the lie about the pentagon missile defenses, the pentagon had no missile defenses on Sept 11th 2001.

They mention the loss of financial information in the Pentagon impact, and then say "Rumsfeld publicly made this announcement" about the untracked $2.3 trillion.

Between September 2000 and June 2001, the FAA scrambled jets to intercept 67 times. Intercepts are routine and usually happen within 10 minutes. Even shit for brains Jazzz, has been forced to drop this one.

However they provide no evidence to say that loss of financial information had anything to do with the $2.3 trillion. Also the use of the word "announcement" might lead people to think this was new information, when in fact he and others had mentioned it before, and the issue first came up in March 2000.

How's those for a start taffy? The film is a crook of shit dressing up conjecture and speculation and pretending it's proof.'

Satam Al Suqami's passport was in his pocket--true-that's an assumption. But where else would it be?

It repeats the claim about the ISI connection and the wire transfer, it ignores the fact that that claim has never been verified came in the weeks of the attack--there is confusion on when this transfer took place--August or September, but it was reported and never explained--did it actually not happen? I don't know-it was reported though


They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.---it is my understanding that hijacking drills were being conducted that day-hence fake insertions-not real planes--am I wrong about this?

Also it says that Hani Hanjour came to the US to become a pilot but failed to complete any courses, but did not finish them it neglects to mention he already had a license before he came.---actually this licence was issued by the FAA(in America)and was expired by the time 9/11 happened. It was testified to under oath at the moussoui trial  by instructors at a flight school he attended, that they couldn't believe he actually had an FAA issued license because of his horrible flying skills-and wanted to confirm that it was in fact real. The FAA said it was. The person who actually signed off on the licence from the FAA was some mysterious Arab who fled the country after 9/11

It rattles on and on about the f**king wargames, but as I have linked to it before, actually helped to increase response time.--that is what the military said at the 9/11 commission hearings. It is confirmed by the 9/11 commission themselves that the military lied at the hearings and we all know there was for all practical purposes no response from the military

They also, once again, mention that free fall from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds. Then they show a tower collapse with a timer. The collapses started from the impact zones below the roof, so they can not be compared to the collapse times from the top of the towers. And still the collapses took longer than 9.2 seconds. But they still like to use that "suspicious" time.--from page 305 of the 9/11 commission report "at 9:58:59 the south tower collapsed in ten seconds"


It repeats the lie about the pentagon missile defenses, the pentagon had no missile defenses on Sept 11th 2001.--due to national security issues..the government is not going to confirm or deny any type of defense of the pentagon

They mention the loss of financial information in the Pentagon impact, and then say "Rumsfeld publicly made this announcement" about the untracked $2.3 trillion.--it is my understanding the people who were auditing the pentagon books were placed in the area of the impact

Between September 2000 and June 2001, the FAA scrambled jets to intercept 67 times. Intercepts are routine and usually happen within 10 minutes. .., has been forced to drop this one.---the regulations for plane intercepts were changed in June of 2001


However they provide no evidence to say that loss of financial information had anything to do with the $2.3 trillion. Also the use of the word "announcement" might lead people to think this was new information, when in fact he and others had mentioned it before, and the issue first came up in March 2000.---true, this wasn't exactly new news, but like I said, it is my understanding that the auditors were placed in the area of impact--is that incorrect?

How's those for a start taffy? The film is a crook of shit dressing up conjecture and speculation and pretending it's proof.'--my name isn't taffy, I just asked if you had seen it, I assumed you hadn't, my assumption was correct, I think it's a huge improvement over the previous releases.

[Biffa]

Abbadon - Its fine, everyone can see that you are either a troll or an incredulous bullshitter. I expect you arr the latter. !00000 year old gold mines indeed!

I was trying to understand about all the garbled up writing. Noone but a deliberately argumentative person whould refuse that in a discussion of this kind, much less act offended You exhibit troll behaviour. Do you still think that I'm a troll?

Oh yeah and you got pwned by giving misleading quotes, and have not had the decency to admit it.

[abbadon]

Abbadon - Its fine, everyone can see that you are either a troll or an incredulous bullshitter. I expect your the latter. !00000 year old gold mines indeed!

I was trying to understand about all the garbled up writing. Noone but a deliberately argumentative person whould refuse that in a discussion of this kind, much less act offended You exhibit troll behaviour. Do you still think that I'm a troll?

Oh yeah and you got pwned by giving misleading quotes, and have not had the decency to admit it.

That post was just theories basted on old history and archaeological information, some is mythology and some religion. But this is a forum for theories right?
And that sane posted my thread about something else in a pentagon discussion thread.

so stating other than your thoughts is called trolling?
im debating about the 757 that hit pentagon, your talking about my english typing, where im from etc...

troll: "a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users" seems to fit you pretty well

[Biffa]

What about your mis-quoted 'quotes'. You where wrong. You wouldn't think so from the way you behave. And no this isn't a froum for 'theories' it is a forum to discuss the truth.

[abbadon]

What about your mis-quoted 'quotes'. You where wrong. You wouldn't think so from the way you behave. And no this isn't a froum for 'theories' it is a forum to discuss the truth.

I didnt say i based everything from what people are saying, i just showed people are saying diffrent things with makes it harder for people like you and Americans to finding out the truth of what really happened. we can speculate, thinking up solutions of what happened. And yes there is alot of Disinformation out there making it even harder to find real proof of what happened, mostly ending up that people dont bother finding out the truth. 

Like they cant even explaining the lost of huge amount of dollars disappearing from pentagon.

some of the 77 and news about it here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4648624627192508186&hl=en

[ghardy]

i wanna know where all the passenger plane wreckage was...i couldn't see any in the photos i have seen.

and yes, for the ground effect stuff, I agree.   As a pilot, just flying a cessna at 80Kt it is almost impossible to keep it near the ground.  This is a standard meneuver for a short-field take off; you have to push hard forward yoke, because it just wants to pop straigt up (and is a lot of fun), so i can only imaging a plane going 400KT with wings that size would behave. 

[Weston White]

Yes, I appreciate how you point out that I have not shown any facts. Like unedited witness footage, or articles proving your accomplice Lloyd England gained nothing from 9/11, and research proving Stubblebine is an agent, and on and on...these are not facts in your eyes, nothing compared to the "facts" you have posted like planted lightpoles no rush hour traffic, witnesses who are part of the plot and so on. You're a real asset to the "truth" movement.

Have you seen Llyod England’s personal financial assets? So what if the taxi cab business filed for bankruptcy. It is a bit presumptuous to assume he received no personal benefits from 9/11 or for that matter from the taxi cab company or anybody else.

[jimd3100]

Have you seen Llyod England’s personal financial assets? So what if the taxi cab business filed for bankruptcy. It is a bit presumptuous to assume he received no personal benefits from 9/11 or for that matter from the taxi cab company or anybody else.

So it's a bit presumptuous for me to assume he gained nothing financialy huh? But it's not presumptuous for you to say he's lieing and involved in 9/11? What was your evidence that he is lieing? Oh, yea, you have none, just a fairy tail of how lightpoles were planted and he ruins all that. Now here is my evidence that he didn't gain from 9/11....care to show us what yours is that he did? Or perhaps he just likes the idea of killing thousands and was happy to help?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4111-2004Feb1?language=printer


Messy End of an Institution
Capitol Cab's Name Sold in Bankruptcy Proceedings

By Krissah Williams
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 2, 2004; Page E03

Lloyde A. England sank onto the wooden bench in a D.C. courtroom as the last major asset of the company he joined in 1959 went to the highest bidder.

The logo, colors and radio-dispatch system of Capitol Cab Cooperative Association Inc., started by black cabbies in the 1930s, sold for $58,000.

 
Capitol Cab's logo will continue to zip around the city, but under new ownership.

"Now I've got to change my colors," said England, 70, as he stared down at the cowboy hat on his knee.
The ruling by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge S. Martin Teel Jr. marked the end of an era for England and his colleagues, who paid monthly dues in exchange for shares in the company. They have been bonded most of their adult lives by the orange stripe and the white picture of the Capitol building painted on their black cabs.

The cab company was a product of segregation, but by 1965 it was one of the largest cab companies in the country, with 1,565 members. In those days, England saw driving as the road to entrepreneurship. So did his friend and fellow Capitol Cab member John T. Bugg, who said, "I could have gotten a job, but I wouldn't have gotten nothing but work."

From its Northeast Washington headquarters, the association provided members with repairs, gasoline, auto loans and 24-hour radio dispatch. But in the 1990s the company outgrew the management abilities of its leaders, some members said. The tipping point was a $1 million investment in an insurance company, which failed. By 2001, Capitol Cab could no longer pay its bills.

The company filed for bankruptcy. Two years later its leaders hadn't come up with a plan for profitability. Last spring the bankruptcy court appointed lawyer Wendell W. Webster to sell assets to pay debts, which at the time totaled $2.8 million.

The headquarters sold for $3 million last year, but the company had continued to lose money and accrued taxes and other expenses from the sale of its assets, Webster said.

Capitol Cab was destroyed as much by political infighting as by financial problems, some members said. England and Bugg, who head Capitol Cab's unsecured creditors committee, have accused the company's elected leadership of financial irregularities -- an allegation that they were not able to prove in court during three years of bankruptcy proceedings, and which fellow Capitol Cab driver William Wright, 81, and other elected leaders of the cooperative deny.

"We were real successful for a while," Wright said. "Things started going bad. We had politics within the organization. The insurance company [failed.] That's the way it happened."
Last week, Bugg and England faced off against Wright for what is likely the last time. Wright won.

Wright, two dozen former Capitol Cab drivers and First Washington Insurance Co. bought the rights to the Capitol Cab name, according to court documents. First Washington is owned by Jerry Schaeffer, a white businessman who operates a number of large D.C. cab companies, including District Cab. Bugg and England said they are considering an appeal.
Unlike the Capitol Cab of old, the new company will be owned in a more conventional business arrangement by Wright and the other investors. Pending approval of the sale by regulators, many of the 100 or so men still driving cabs with the insignia will have to pay Wright to use its name.

"We'll continue on," Wright said. "We know we have a good name. We can regroup."

Anthony Williams, 70, a jewelry store owner who drove for Capitol Cab when he was a Howard University student, called the end of the cooperative a "downright disgrace." Williams and his cousin William Gray, also a former driver, failed to outbid Wright for rights to the company's name and logo. Wright initially bid $15,000. Gray and Williams thought that was too low. They started a bidding war last week that drove the price up.

Bugg and England were left having to pay their old enemies a fee, or drop the logo.

"You're going to turn around and look at these black men and say 'I'm going to take the colors off your car?' " Bugg said.

He and England are trying to come up with a new name and color scheme -- maybe blue over the orange band.

Standing next to England's Capitol Cab No. 677 after the bankruptcy proceeding, he and Bugg say they'll keep on driving.

"We don't have anything but our cars," England said.



Wait let me guess...since the lightpoles were planted...the witnesses were planted....The perps (England ) was planted, and I'm a planted agent...I'm going to take a wild guess and you believe this story was planted as well.....

[Weston White]

You have convinced yourself that a plane hitting the pentagon=official story of 9/11 is true.

If we all believed this then we would all agree that a plane did hit the Pentagon, though since we do not all agree on that this claim of your is just not so.

Therefor you must at all cost and logic hold on to the theory that a plane didn't hit the pentagon.

Exactly.

Despite the fact that a plane hitting the pentagon is smoking gun proof of an inside job,

…And the use of a missile and/or explosive is not?

which we have no proof of,

…Nobody has any actual proof (except Professor Jones), only speculation, being that the government is withholding it under “National Security” or has destroyed it or shipped it off to foreign countries such as China.

and we will say that it wasn't rush hour traffic, even though it was,

…Actually I feel the more traffic there was the more it actually proves that the scene was in fact staged and there was not actual aircraft that passed over the expressway.

in order to put the blame on regular citizens with nothing to gain,

…From reports I have looked into the majority of the witnesses are in conflict of interest, many are members of MSM, I would say they have much to gain from cooping with the government and much to loose if they do/did not. As well, who knows what sort of perks other witnesses could have received, i.e. U.S. Citizenship for those witnesses in the area at the time that seemed to barely be capable of speaking basic English, many of the witnesses could be spooks, agents, informants, Blackwater employees, staff workers for people such as Silberstein and Giuliani; witnesses could owe a dept to high ranking government officials or have been blackmailed.

you would think that if there were "suspicious witnesses" at the top of the list would be pentagon police...but no, we want to use them in our deluded thinking therefor they are "good witnesses" and show that the plane came from a different direction.

…I do not believe them to be good witnesses, I do not really trust them for that matter, though serve to show that the witnesses accounts, regardless of their views are not to be trusted, there are way to many conflicts in their statement from both sides of the table, thus all their testimony should be rejected altogether and rather the focus should be upon the evidence… and oh yea those 80+ CCTV tapes that the government refuses to release.

[Weston White]

You seem to me to be a reasonable person, and I agree with most of what you say. But about Avery.......I too had some problems with some stuff in his films, and I sometimes wonder about his judgement because of some of his associates that he has had....however, I've come to the conclusion at this point that he and Bermas are legitimate truth seekers. I don't know these guys but have followed their work and with each new movie they get better and better...which shows me instead of defending a theory they have they are willing to go where the evidence takes them. I have a feeling you haven't seen their latest Loose change Final cut movie. I can't find any problems with that one. Because they seem to put the truth in higher regard than defending a theory they might have, I respect that. Take a look at their latest release the final cut and if you find fault with it let me know what it is. I think it shows how the evolution of their movies have progressed, which is a good thing in my eyes.

Actually this is quite funny, because is that not Alex Jones in the flesh that I always see kicking it with the Loose Change Crew at every 9/11 related event they attend?

BTW, Avery admitted in a Final Cut interview that they had to alter their perspectives do to demands made by their sponsorship of the film... 

That reminds me what happened to Charlie Sheen I thought he was going to narrate this Final Cut film?

[Weston White]

The film makes the claim that Satam Al Suqami's passport was in his pocket, but of course he has no way of knowing that.

… Pocket, hand, carry on baggage, baggage in the cargo hold in a suitcase full of TNT does it really matter? Point is it was on the plane and made its way safely to the ground through a raging inferno without any damage… or are you suggesting the terrorist had pre-planted his passport near the WTC for whatever purpose? Perhaps as a Token of warship to Allah?

It repeats the claim about the ISI connection and the wire transfer, it ignores the fact that that claim has never been verified came in the weeks of the attack.

…This claim seems to be well supported and as in all 9/11 related aspects, there is nothing publicly released or let alone acknowledged by our government, thus do they really need to state this is speculation on our part for each and every point they make? In law when one party makes a claim and the other party remains silent the claim is assumed by the court to hold as true and correct, the government was called to task on this claim and guess what… they remained silent.

They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.

…In other words you believe what they want you to believe, you do not question their absurd excuses at the least? A plane cashed into a building and they missed it? They could not tell one planes call-sign/Identity from another? Geez, they make it seem as if people were purposely flying numerous planes around for the sole purpose of causing confusion; as if somebody was on a main police or fire radio channel pretending to be an officer or firefighter passing out utterly bogus radio traffic.

Also it says that Hani Hanjour came to the US to become a pilot but failed to complete any courses, but did not finish them it neglects to mention he already had a license before he came.

…Did not the flight instructor advise that he had still not completed his required in-flight operating hours so he would not qualify for a US license? As well he could not even gain the trust of the fly trainer to rent one of their little Cessna aircraft, correct? So hey lets just bring up as many non-issues as we possibly can and spend all of our time arguing about those! Though it sure does make you wonder how he got a valid USA pilots license in the first place, no doesn’t it?

It rattles on and on about the f**king wargames, but as I have linked to it before, actually helped to increase response time.

…Really, well I would sure hate to see the response time when the planes are grounded or in standby mode. I would have to say they really need to rethink their system then, because that NORAD is has to be the worst functioning military agency on the entire face of this planet! They have one simple task, one purpose, one goal, and they failed at it 4 out of 4 times, man that is just so sad to because 9/11 was their time to shine to! The one time they have been called upon to act in a real world scenario and they stumbled all over themselves. Well, at least they all got those promotions they all o’ so wanted. So at least there was a happy ending.

They also, once again, mention that free fall from the top of the towers would be 9.2 seconds. Then they show a tower collapse with a timer. The collapses started from the impact zones below the roof, so they can not be compared to the collapse times from the top of the towers. And still the collapses took longer than 9.2 seconds. But they still like to use that "suspicious" time.

...No the collapses actually start from about 15 floors above the impact zone, (right about now you should be saying something to the effect of: What is this you say? No, no, that is very, very strange, maybe I should review the collapses in slow motion and see for myself.)
9.2 seconds is an approximation and is actually very close to the actual freefall time it is accurate to within a few thousand milliseconds.

It repeats the lie about the pentagon missile defenses, the pentagon had no missile defenses on Sept 11th 2001.

…Really, says who? The evidence and the technology indicates otherwise. So they claim their batteries in Washington were not armed until 2002 and you just believe them? Laughable I say.

“In 1962, 82 Army National Guard units manned Nike Ajax air defense batteries in 15 states and the District of Columbia, according to a spokesman for the North American Aerospace Defense Command.”
http://www.ftmac.org/Lanike1.htm ...and that was in 1962, need I say more?

They mention the loss of financial information in the Pentagon impact, and then say "Rumsfeld publicly made this announcement" about the untracked $2.3 trillion.

…This is true, there is an actual news-press of him making this statement on 9/10/2001. I haven’t heard a word of this since 9/11, have you? http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=donald+rumsfield+2.3+trillion&sitesearch=

Between September 2000 and June 2001, the FAA scrambled jets to intercept 67 times. Intercepts are routine and usually happen within 10 minutes.

…Exactly, so what the hell happened on 9/11? 0 for 4, that is what happened!

However they provide no evidence to say that loss of financial information had anything to do with the $2.3 trillion. Also the use of the word "announcement" might lead people to think this was new information, when in fact he and others had mentioned it before, and the issue first came up in March 2000.

…I believe Rumsfeld said that was the reason they could not account for this unbelievably large missing sum of monies. It was new information because an official investigation was being started to look into this matter of great and substantial importance.

The film is a crook of shit dressing up conjecture and speculation and pretending it's proof.'

…Well, at least your point of view is not baised.

[Weston White]

So it's a bit presumptuous for me to assume he gained nothing financialy huh? But it's not presumptuous for you to say he's lieing and involved in 9/11? What was your evidence that he is lieing? Oh, yea, you have none, just a fairy tail of how lightpoles were planted and he ruins all that. Now here is my evidence that he didn't gain from 9/11....care to show us what yours is that he did? Or perhaps he just likes the idea of killing thousands and was happy to help?

...For one the photos of his vehicle, they do not jive with the official story. Notice the only thing damaged is the windshield, nothing else not the roof, not his vacancy sign, not his hood, not him, nothing but the window (and dashboard). The point of impact to his vehicle and the stopping location and position of his vehicle does not make sense either, (until you realize it was an arranged scene for a "photo-op").

At the most he was hired to play an acting part, they would not have told him everything that was going to happen or the reasons it was going to happen; at the most they would have told him to be a patriot, to serve his country, they would have possibly even said to him that this was for the betterment of your country, trust us, help your country to become a better place, all you have to do is... and that is it, nothing else.

Or perhaps England is being blackmailed or  maybe he really likes to gamble, heck, he could even be rationalizing the event to justify what the government had him do/paid him to do without telling him the whole story before hand. England could also be not all there mentally, or perhaps is not able to fathom his country (let alone another country) could do such a thing, thus he is not capable of registering the full scope of what occurred on 9/11. Perhaps he believes that all people are inherently good and would not dare do such a thing and believes 9/11 to be just a very terrible accident. Perhaps, he does not watch T.V. and is not even aware of what occurred at the WTC. There are all sorts of reasons that could explain why he would be less then honest (either willingly or unwillingly).

I feel I do no need to have to keep telling you that I do not think England had anything to do in anybodies death or is responsible for causing anybodies death, 9/11 would have occurred regardless if he took part in any capacity or not (or some other Joe for that matter), just as 9/11 would have occurred regardless if England’s vehicle was hit by a light pole or not (or anybody else’s vehicle for that matter), when accounting for the official story... or not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A4111-2004Feb1?language=printer

Yea, I read it the first time you posted it, so the business filed bankruptcy, which is an entirely separate entity then Lloyde England the individual, which it is a bit confusing though it seems as if England was part of a taxi cab union or was bonded for privilege. So it is not really a loss to him anyways, he is just on his own now so to say, until he decides to join up with a new company. Though being 70 years old, I would say time to apply for some of that federal government funding he has been saving up for his entire life and hang up his old cowboy hat and then take a seat on his retirement bench.

[jimd3100]

BTW, Avery admitted in a Final Cut interview that they had to alter their perspectives do to demands made by their sponsorship of the film... 

You know I wonder why you don't show us that interview? Oh...look I dug up this AP interview with D Avery about the Final Cut movie...I'll help you..here it is.....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3098453174045089000&q=%22dylan+avery%22+interview&total=23&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

At the 23:52 part he says "everything we bring up in this movie is a fact"....ok now you show me the part where he was demanded by sponsers to "alter their perspectives."   Now to me saying, "everything we bring up in this movie is a fact", means that he is in agreement with everything in this movie. But you think it means he was coarced? Why not just say he's a plant too?