Pentagon: What happened on 9/11

[Byrne0ut]

how do you become a moderator on this site?

[Freeski]

how do you become a moderator on this site?

Dibs on Hero Moderator!

[Biggs]

So, you're saying no passenger planes parts were found, and if they were they were planted, that pretty much sums up your arguement from what I've read over and over and over
http://www.rense.com/general32/phot.htm

http://debris.0catch.com/

Now show me the parts of the whatever it is now that you say hit the pentagon.

this one you always trot out like a little bit of  gospel, except it does not actually match the diagram that you provide with it, indeed it is not even close.

[smokecheck]

 Can someone explain where the two Rolls Royce jet engines, made of titanium went?

[jimd3100]

Can someone explain where the two Rolls Royce jet engines, made of titanium went?

Yea, it's in the post above you contrary what Biggs says
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml
http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/rb211a.jpg

[yanaar]

You've been deleting my posts again there Jimbo.  I'm sure you have an excellent explanation, so I'm not going to bother asking for one, and you don't need to bother to post it...  since it's already in your loaded question anway.

Any post that is at odds with what you think gets deleted.  Great moderating... but then... you're not a real moderator, are you?  More like a dis-info agent... and a clever one at that.

[markshark4]

Flight 77 was too high to have struck the pentagon at 9:37:46 AM, according to the plane's own black box/flight data recorder!
  

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org


Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org


OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF  9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA

Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain their 2002 report, "Flight Path Study-American Airlines Flight 77", consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 77's Flight Data Recorder (FDR).



The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:

1. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.

2. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.

3. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.  

4. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.  

5. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.



In August, 2006, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001 .  However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall.

The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon.

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001. We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon.

As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people?

Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information please visit pilotsfor911truth.org.

For complete member list please visit http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

For detailed analysis, please view Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Two - Flight Of American 77


http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_bals_080418_official_account_of_.htm

 

[Biggs]

interesting post, many thanks.

Flight 77 was too high to have struck the pentagon at 9:37:46 AM, according to the plane's own black box/flight data recorder!
  

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org


Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org


OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF  9/11 FLIGHT CONTRADICTED BY GOVERNMENT'S OWN DATA

Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain their 2002 report, "Flight Path Study-American Airlines Flight 77", consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 77's Flight Data Recorder (FDR).



The data provided by the NTSB contradict the 9/11 Commission Report in several significant ways:

1. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support official events.

2. All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.

3. The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.  

4. The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.  

5. If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100 feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.



In August, 2006, members of Pilots for 9/11 Truth received these documents from the NTSB and began a close analysis of the data they contain. After expert review and cross check, Pilots for 9/11 Truth has concluded that the information in these NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon on the morning of September 11, 2001.

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, which relied heavily upon the NTSB Flight Path Study, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon at 9:37:46 AM on the morning of September 11, 2001 .  However, the reported impact time according to the NTSB Flight Path Study is 09:37:45. Also according to reports, American Airlines Flight 77 struck the Pentagon and by doing so, struck down 5 light poles on Highway 27 in its path to the west wall.

The information provided by the NTSB does not support the 9/11 Commission Report of American Airlines Flight 77 impact with the Pentagon.

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is committed to discovering the truth surrounding the events of September 11, 2001. We have contacted both the NTSB and the FBI regarding these and other inconsistencies. To date, they have refused to comment on, correct, refute, retract or offer side-letters that might explain the discrepancies between what they claim are the data extracted from the FDR of AA Flight 77 and the official story alleging its crash into the Pentagon.

As concerned citizens and professionals in the aviation industry, Pilots for 9/11 Truth asks, why have these discrepancies not been addressed by agencies within the United States Government? Why have they falsely represented their own data to the American people?

Pilots for 9/11 Truth takes the position that an official government inquiry into these discrepancies is warranted and long overdue. We call upon our fellow citizens to write to their Congressional representatives to inform them of these discrepancies and call for an immediate investigation into this matter. For more information please visit pilotsfor911truth.org.

For complete member list please visit http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

For detailed analysis, please view Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Two - Flight Of American 77


http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_bals_080418_official_account_of_.htm

 

[markshark4]

According to the 9/11 Commission: Flight 77 was going 530 mph when it crashed into the pentagon.

According to Boeing: A 757 can't even fly that fast at sea level, or that low to the ground, only at 35,000 feet where the air is MUCH more thin!





"The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane."

-Danielle O'Brien
Dulles Air Traffic Controller










Another strange anomaly:

Flight 77 only had 60 passengers out of 180 possible, only a 30% occupancy.

Also, Eleven out of those were employed by the Pentagon or contractors apparently involved in the Star Wars-linked work, related to the tracking of airborne objects.

Stanley Hall - Director of Program Management for Raytheon, where he helped to develop and build anti-radar technology.  He was described as "our dean of electronic warfare."

John Yamnicky Sr. - Engaged in top secret Pentagon work at Veridian Engineering, on air-to-air missile programmes.  "He had done a number of black programs - which means top secret," said his son. "We were given no details."

John Sammartino - An engineer for XonTech Inc, whose website says it specializes in software systems for identifying enemy missiles.

Leonard Taylor - A technical manager for XonTech Inc.

Robert Ploger - Worked for twenty years at Lockheed Martin, where he was a manager in the Systems and Software Architecture Department.

Chandler Keller - A lead propulsion engineer and a project manager with Boeing Satellite Systems.

Ruben Ornedo - Also a propulsion engineer with Boeing, although perhaps in a different division.

Dong Lee - Also described as an engineer with Boeing.  He is listed in the media but does not appear on the flight manifest.

Robert Penninger - An electrical engineer with BAE Systems, another company with a large presence in the high-tech defence sector.

Wilson Flagg - A US Navy Admiral and Pilot with American Airlines.

So not only did they all work for the government, AND the Pentagon, but they were all specifically involved with Star Wars-linked work, related to the tracking of airborne objects.

That is a pretty big coincidence IMO, there is no obvious explanation for this either, such as a conference they were all attending.

Something isn't right here, it reminds me of the time I looked at all the Chairmen for the 12 member banks of the Federal Reserve and noticed the strange coincidence of how many were also members of the CFR.






What about the eye witnesses though?

I personally believe them, but ...

Just because they saw a plane, it doesn't necessarily mean they saw Flight 77.

And even if they did see Flight 77, which I think they did, it doesn't mean it hit the pentagon.





They won't release the camera footage, so that leaves you with a very small amount of crash debris to prove that a 757 hit the pentagon, most of which is very ambiguous like this ...

Supposedly this is either a compressor rotor, engine disc RB 211 or Honeywell APU from a 757:



Maybe not though, scroll down to the Article [PDF]

The Probable Pentagon Attack Aircraft by Karl W. Schwarz

http://www.physics911.net/

[Biggs]

certainly detailed examination of the piece pictured and the dioagrams that are said to match this, do not in my view show an exact match, it is less glaring a difference than the perforated cylinder I mention above but is nevertheless disimilar enough to need further examination.

[markshark4]

certainly detailed examination of the piece pictured and the dioagrams that are said to match this, do not in my view show an exact match, it is less glaring a difference than the perforated cylinder I mention above but is nevertheless disimilar enough to need further examination.

I'm confused, do you agree or disagree with the article from physics911.net?

What do you think that part is?

[Solon]

The no-plane hit the Pentagon myth was created by Pentagon psyops to manipulate their own personnel so that they reject 9/11 Truth.  It is quintessential disinformation. 

[Biggs]

I'm confused, do you agree or disagree with the article from physics911.net?

What do you think that part is?

I have not read the article, I am referring to pictures of the piece in question referenced against engine part diagrams that have been on this thread and elsewhere - in my view the pictures and diagrams do not match very closely, however, it is less glaring a mismatch than the perforated cylinder piece.

I will read the article and let you know what I think.

[Biggs]

I'm confused, do you agree or disagree with the article from physics911.net?

What do you think that part is?

LOL, I see what the confusion is, my fault I was not being specific enough in my post. I was referring to the shown parts not matching the 757 engine diagrams posted by jimd and others in many different places on the net.

I was not referring to the A3 theory at all.

anyway, am reading article now.

[markshark4]

9/11 Aircraft ‘Black Box’ Serial Numbers Mysteriously Absent

Aidan Monaghan
911 Blogger
February 26, 2008

  
With flight data recorder serial number data that is virtually always provided within NTSB reports of major U.S. commercial airline crashes that occur within U.S. territory, one can trace an installed device to a particular registered aircraft through manufacturer or Federal Aviation Administration records.  
  
Of all major U.S. airline crashes within the U.S. investigated and published by the National Transportation Safety Board during the past 20 years, the 9/11 ‘black boxes’ are virtually the ONLY ones without listed serial numbers.


NTSB American Airlines flight 77 flight data recorder report, not noting a device serial number:

http://www.911myths.com…


NTSB United Airlines flight 93 flight data recorder report, not noting a device serial number:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/…


The United States government alleges that 4 registered Boeing commercial passenger aircraft were used in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, yet has failed to produce any physical evidence collected from the 3 9/11 crash scenes positively tied to these federally registered United and American airlines aircraft. Despite the release of abundant information regarding the 9/11 flights and the aircraft reportedly used, specific information that would confirm official allegations regarding the identity of these aircraft has been mysteriously withheld or denied upon request.

The federally registered aircraft reportedly used during the 9/11 attacks:

- American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA), United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA), American Airlines flight 77 (N644AA) and United Airlines flight 93 (N591UA).

With flight data recorder serial number data that is virtually always provided within NTSB reports of major U.S. commercial airline crashes that occur within U.S. territory, one can trace an installed device to a particular registered aircraft through manufacturer or Federal Aviation Administration records.

 

Infowars ran this story back in February, I'm wondering if this has been confirmed or debunked.  I noticed the article even cited a debunker site (911 Myths) which makes me think this is true.

That's a pretty big deal if the four 9/11 ‘black boxes’ are the ONLY ones without listed serial numbers over the past 20 years!

http://www.infowars.com/?p=477

^^^ Check out comment #111 on Controlled Demolition Inc., it's pretty interesting!

[A K]

77 and 93 were both shot down.

[markshark4]

Craig Ranke CIT calls the Howard Stern Show!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU8flH9ZdDs

[pcc]

hey guys..just read this thread, and although its past the discussion point I think, here is what I discovered..some time ago..
no one would read the link the first time I posted it..so I posted almost the whole thing here..

http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=204394

and as far as the "star witness" to the global hawk: Sam Danner..he was a contributor to another forum..I confronted him there..after which, he promptly took his ball and went home..
if you go to the link you will find not only the link given several times by Jim..and two other links to aerospace web articles that deal with the questionable wheel, and the assessment of the degree "ground effects" would have had on low altitude flying..
no real proof mind you..but an excellent argument that cannot be refuted..at least not by using facts

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/read/112928

[A K]

Watch a real jet crash.  Look at the near perfect lawn at the Pentagon.  Compare it to the massive fireball and devastation from a real jet crash.  It is very hard to reconcile what we see here with the minimal damage at the Pentagon. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbIr3gH4P2o

[jimd3100]

The reason most of you who think a missile hit the pentagon believe that, is because of the loose change movie. I've already shown you that there actually is not one reason to think a missile hit the pentagon. Not one. However there are lots of reasons for believing a large plane did. But you just can't admit it. That you could have been duped. Jim Hoffman can admit it. Lots of folks were duped by the DisInfo infiltration. If 9/11 was an inside job, you better believe that a 9/11 truth movement would be hit with infiltration and disInfo. We know what it is. It is no planes and it started at the pentagon. The best cointelpro agents are in fact not cointelpro agents at all. For an explanation of that... you can hear Hoffman explain it here....
http://visibility911.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=186639

So does that mean I think the Loose change crew are DisInfo agents? No. In fact I have bought all their movies and support them. But that doesn't mean I agree with everything they ever say. They get stuff wrong. So do I. And so do you. The question is, are they legit, and really after the truth? I believe they are.

But for some reason some of you just refuse to see how you've been duped into the "no plane at the pentagon" BS. It is in fact a no plane theory, started by no planers.

So, I wonder if the people who convinced you a missile hit the pentagon would tell you themselves that they were wrong, and actually a large plane hit the pentagon, would you still not believe it?

Let's find out......

Here is Korey Rowe himself, the producer of Loose Change telling you this. This was recorded earlier this month. It's at the very beginning of this clip. His exact words are..."What we did learn after the 2nd edition, is that there is allot of evidence suggesting that a large plane did strike the pentagon".

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3634801432278945026&hl=en

He goes on to say, that there is no way Hani Hanjour flew that plane. Exactly! He and the others I think believe that the planes were switched. I don't really believe that, however I fully understand why he thinks that(operation northwoods)and this is a possibility worth exploring. The difference in northwoods was the planes were switched and the passenger lists to be put in the paper were to be fake. In other words the passengers wouldn't die. They did die on 9/11. I think if the planes were switched it was already done at the airport. But Like I said, this is worth exploring. He makes an excellent point about the E4b planes. This is important! However he also seems to think that no passengers from flight 77 were at the pentagon, and I don't know why he says that or came to that conclusion. The point here is he is now aware that a large plane hit the pentagon. We could use your help in stamping out the no plane at the pentagon DisInfo.

[Biggs]

The reason most of you who think a missile hit the pentagon believe that, is because of the loose change movie. I've already shown you that there actually is not one reason to think a missile hit the pentagon. Not one.

actually it is the damage at the pentagon that convinces people, has far more the appearance of a missile or small plane than a large plane.
regardless of loose change or anything else

[jimd3100]

actually it is the damage at the pentagon that convinces people, has far more the appearance of a missile or small plane than a large plane.
regardless of loose change or anything else

How does a missile or small plane knock down 5 light poles?

[Biggs]

How does a missile or small plane knock down 5 light poles?

it doesn't, but then large planes do not make little holes and break a couple of windows

[Brocke]

it doesn't, but then large planes do not make little holes and break a couple of windows

Good point Biggs!

[pac522]

And so we give the merry-go-round another spin!

[jimd3100]

it doesn't, but then large planes do not make little holes and break a couple of windows

And the entire first floor still isn't a little hole.
http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/smallhole.html

[jimd3100]

What is intersting is that WTC building 7 was not actually owned by Silverstein but by a financial Institution with ties to the federal reserve....
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=18571.msg93182#msg93182

It seems that flight 77 the plane that supposedly flew into the pentagon was not really owned by American Airlines but by a Financial Intuition with ties to the Federal Reserve.

The registration number for Flight 77 was n644AA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_77

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=644AA
Aircraft Registration prior to Deregistration

 Name     WILMINGTON TRUST COMPANY TRUSTEE 
Street  RODNEY SQ NORTH ATTN CORP TRT ADM 
City  WILMINGTON             State     DELAWARE            Zip Code      19890 
County  NEW CASTLE 
Country  UNITED STATES  

Who is this Wilmington Trust Company? Well, for starters they like to refer to themselves as WTC in their sec filings. Nice huh? They were founded by Dupont....."Wilmington Trust (NYSE: WL) was founded on July 8, 1903 as a banking, trust, and safe deposit company by DuPont president T. Coleman du Pont." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmington_Trust

BTW Dupont is like the beginning of the Military Industrial Complex...."is an American chemical company that was founded in July 1802 as a gunpowder mill by Eleuthère Irénée du Pont". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DuPont

Wilmington Trust Company(WTC)helps wealthy people get more wealthy.
"Wilmington Trust provides customized financial alternatives for three core lines of business: wealth advisory, corporate client, and regional banking services. Now in our second century of serving clients, we are one of the most respected independent financial services organizations in the U.S., known for our expertise, the quality of our staff and our services, and our client-centric approach." http://www.wilmingtontrust.com/wtcom/index.jsp?section=About

The CEO of Wilmington Trust got himself a position on the Federal Reserve......
"WILMINGTON, Del.--(Business Wire)--Wilmington Trust Corporation (NYSE:WL) announced that Chairman and
Chief Executive Officer Ted T. Cecala has been appointed to the Board
of Directors of the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia. He begins a
three-year term in January 2008.

   The Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia is one of 12 Federal
Reserve Banks across the United States."http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS187753+08-Jan-2008+BW20080108

Wilmington isn't exactly squeaky clean, seems they have gotten into a little trouble with the SEC before but that wasn't a problem for the FED.
http://www.sec.gov/news/digest/dig071204.txt

BTW the other American Airlines Jet involved in 9/11 was owned by another financial Institution for some reason. And it looks like Wilmington may have actually more Boeing passenger type planes. Why would they have an aircraft they own carry passengers around the U.S., by American Airlines?

http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft/registrations/wilmington-de-delaware.asp?spg=99

[pcc]

..

Watch a real jet crash.  Look at the near perfect lawn at the Pentagon.  Compare it to the massive fireball and devastation from a real jet crash.  It is very hard to reconcile what we see here with the minimal damage at the Pentagon. 

here is a quick easy read..says it well..

http://frustratingfraud.blogspot.com/2006/12/unmarked-pentalawn.html

and here is a source with more detail and overview..once again no real proof..but come on..

http://www.pehi.eu/disinformation/911/pentahole_dimensions_est.htm

~for believers, no evidence is needed..for skeptics, no amount will ever be enough..

[Biggs]

Good info on flight 77 and WTC7 Jim - the arrangement mentioned is quite normal being a simple lend lease or repurchase agreement, common enough for financial institutions to actually buy the planes and then the airline rents them over say 10 years or more. The financial institution can get large amounts of cash at lwoer rates than the airline so borrow the money to buy say 10 jets for $2billion and then rent them to the airline at a rate lower than the airline's borrowing cost and higher than their own, so everybody ends up better off. (a risk an insurance premium will also be included in the rental, driving it upwards, but the airline would have to have paid this anyway if they had bought their own planes)

However, most of these financial institutions that do this kind of deal with airlines will not be linked diretly to the Federal reserve.

[markshark4]

This is interesting ... I got the link from Jim Marrs book on 9/11. (The Terror Conspiracy)

Two civilian defense contractor employees working at commercial corporate facilities at Fort Collins-Loveland Municipal Airport claim ... in the months before the 9-11 attacks U.S. Air Force had military tech corps bring in A-3 Sky Warrior aircraft to be completely refitted and modified at the small civilian airport in Colorado.

The two witnesses say that separate military contractor teams working independently at different times refitted Douglas A-3 Sky Warriors with updated missiles, then other teams refitted sky warriors with Raytheon's Global Hawk unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) remote control systems. The CYCLOPS SYSTEM, an e-hijacking infrastructure tech equally in all Boeing 757/767s already that NORAD centrally can e-hijack, override pilots, & guide in real time.

A total makeover, seemingly for an operation more important and secret than use as a simple missile testing platform...for Hughes-Raytheon. Raytheon/TRW owned by Blackstone, private financial corp., CEO, Peter Peterson of NYC Fed. Reserve. Blackstone buys full WTC7 mortgage through in-house mil. contractor Raytheon/TRW mere months before 9-11 while other Raytheonites refit Sky Warriors as Global Hawks.

Jim Hoffman and Don Paul's 9/11 DVD 9/11 Guilt: The Proof is in your hands lists Peter Peterson (President of NY Federal Reserve Bank) as one of the top 5 conspirators behind 9/11!  
Larry Silverstein, Peter Peterson, David Rockefeller, Dick Cheney, George Bush.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/05/318250.shtml

[markshark4]

Coincidentally, five key Raytheon executives died on 9-11:

Stanley Hall--Director of Electronic warfare program management (American 77)

Peter Gay--VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made (American 11)

Kenneth Waldie--Senior Quality Control Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11)

David Kovalcin--Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems (American 11)

Herbert Homer--Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense (United 175)

Curiously, the five Raytheon executives chose three of the four doomed jets and all happened to fly on September 11. Have their family members been interviewed? Other co-workers? Defense Department officials?

Raytheon's top people tied to the Global Hawk remote control UAV aircraft systems all died on 9/11 without a grand jury probing their memos, electronic messages, phone records, meeting calendars, visits or calls to Ft. Collins-Loveland airport or testimony related to other related matters.


How do you explain the vapor trail?



Or that this is a shiny silver 100 ton/150 feet long 757?

If the government has nothing to hide, why are they hiding everything?

Where is the NTSB report?

They even pulled debris out of the ocean to do a report for TWA 800.

Where is all the camera footage?

[Biggs]

great info on A3 refits and raytheon exec Markshark, many thanks.

curious indeed that A3 had been refitted with remote control tech and that these persons all died, quite a coincidence indeed, or more's to the point no coicidence at all.

[Fleahman]

I have a hard time believing the story the media reported regarding the pentagon.  Not sure if it was a plane or missile, or even a missile fired from a helicopter.   But what I do is that too many coincidences surround that day.  The fact the "plane" crashed into the the only part of the building that was under renovations is certainly lucky. 

We can all agree that many details from that day are still fuzzy, just like the 5 frames released of the "plane" that hit the pentagon.  However, we can also all agree that there were plenty of cameras present to record the impact, and why those tapes have yet to surface seven years later is strange.  Especially considering all the controversy that surrounds the event.  If they have footage of a plane impacting the pentagon, why not release it?


I was arguing about 9/11 with a friend of a friend last night, he attends flight school on his 4th year and well on his way to having his commercial pilots license.  He adamantly argued that 9/11 was NOT an inside job.  He didn't even seem to know that WTC #7 had collapsed that day or that it was in the hands of the same man, larry silv$rstein who had the lease of the two towers.  His argument was basically "don't go there man".  Just didn't want to try to argue it, clearly he had argued about 911 on many a night.  So I dropped the issue, but I had to ask him just one last question:  "When you talk about 9/11 are you in the majority or the minority (with respect to his belief that 19 hi-jackers with boxcutters pulled off 911)?"    Definitely the minority he said. 

That tells me the truth movement is stronger than ever.  That more and more people are waking up.  We may never all be able to agree on what happened at the pentagon that day.  But I think we can all agree that we are not buying the official story they are selling.  There is no reason to continue keeping information and evidence from the general public, unless they have something to hide. 

[JEH]

OK, so let me get this straight. The US military is the mightiest ever with unbelievable technology and it spends trillions of our dollars and we all have all kinds of security to protect us from all the new enemies we create on a daily basis, but cave dwellers with 1 inch bladed knives can take down the pentagon, and do trillions of $ damage at wtc, enable a dictatorship to be created to destroy civil liberties and destroy the constitution which results in untold millions of deaths worldwide, economic disasters, bankrupt the USA, starvation and imprisonment of 15,000,000 amerikans that don't like the way things are going, and many wars to come while corporations and war profiteering brings in untold riches while forming a global industrial military complex. Right?

[JEH]

Pentagon: contruction work done before hand was in preparation of the planted explosives or a cruise missile. I say c missile because there IS a smoke plume like cruise missile has and one has to look hard, but you can barely see the top of the tailfin. Pentagon employees were suicided to cover up pentagon corruption. Funny, all those cameras and not one to show the airliner, what a crock! Just as in Pennsylvania, the pre dug hole months earlier with dry grass blades in it, the preps at wtc installing the demo's. this was all planned far in advance. The planes that hit wtc were military cargos loaded with expendables and thermate and anyone who knew too much. This plan did not rely on commercial flights, to much at stake. The commercial flight crap was just icing on the cake to piss off and frighten the public and kick off the bush terror wars and so on.

[JEH]

Just the fact alone that pole 1 appeared later after feds came proves a coverup and evidence being placed at the scene of the crime. Typical gov work, sloppy but effective. Good pics.

[markshark4]

Jimd3100, Biggs, and others, please help me educate people who STILL believe the official story ...

http://forums.mmaweekly.com/showthread.php?t=5198

[Biggs]

I do not have time right now, but have signed up to the forum and will join in later today.

[markshark4]

How do you explain the vapor trail?

Interesting theory on the vapor trail:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8&feature=related

[doublethink]

all of you, put your tin-foil hats back on