WHAT THE EU TREATY OF LISBON DOES(legally accurate).

[White Rose Sophie]

*breaks into song*

"Strangers in the night,exchanging glances,do do do dodo do"(thats all I know).

I bet thats the first time thats ever happened.   

See, I can tell u r Irish.  (I think the next verse is "lovers at first sight".....)   LOL

[Sub-X]

EU “contempt for democracy” - Already implementing the Lisbon Treaty without it being legal
http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=874
By Bruno Waterfield in Brussels
12.04.2009

EU trains a new diplomatic corps - without waiting for Lisbon Treaty

The European Union was accused of “contempt for democracy” on Sunday after it emerged that hundreds of members of a new diplomatic service are being trained - even though the Lisbon Treaty that creates it has not come into effect.

Five hundred and thirty staff from the European Commission have already begun training to build a “shared diplomatic culture and an esprit de corps” for the EU’s putative External Action Service (EEAS).

Irish voters blocked the Lisbon Treaty, which provides the legal basis for a new Euro-diplomatic corps, when they rejected the renamed EU Constitution in a referendum last June.

The disclosure that the Commission has simply pressed on regardless and begun training the euro-diplomats […]. Ireland is expected to hold a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in October.

Declan Ganley, an Irish campaigner for a “No” vote, said: “It is cause for serious concern that, by implementing the Lisbon Treaty, EU institutions are manifesting outright contempt for democracy.”

Privately, EU officials are aware of the sensitivity of going ahead with training a euro-diplomatic corps. “We are trying to push the envelope as far as we can within the current environment,” said one official in “European Voice”, a Brussels weekly.

Staff are being discreetly trained, “without being too obvious”, on 59 courses with the help of foreign ministries from 17 member states, according to EU sources.

The training aims to foster a “specifically European dimension of diplomacy” and to “create a sense of common European purpose” for the new service. Ireland is one of four EU member states - the others are Poland, the Czech Republic and Germany - which have yet to ratify the Lisbon Treaty. Under the EU’s founding rules, no treaty of this kind can come into effect without the unanimous approval of all member states.

The Conservatives demanded to know whether the Foreign Office was among the national governments aiding the training courses. Mark Francois, the Conservative spokesman on the EU, said: “This project shows just how much more power Brussels would gain over our foreign policy. It is outrageous that the British people are being denied any say over it. That’s why the Conservatives will be campaigning for a referendum in the European elections.”

Secret negotiations, revealed last year by The Daily Telegraph, have agreed that the EEAS will take over the EU’s existing representative offices - there are currently more than 160 across the world - which will be granted the same legal diplomatic status as national embassies.

The new EU service will rival established national diplomatic corps. Britain, with one of the world’s largest diplomatic services, maintains 139 Embassies and High Commissions. Britain narrowly blocked a proposal to call the EU’s representative offices the “Embassies of the Union” during secret talks last spring.

The EEAS will be overseen by a new European “foreign minister”, renamed the “High Representative of the Union”. If Ireland’s voters approve the Lisbon Treaty in a second referendum, this official will be selected, along with a new EU president, at a summit in December.

Privately, officials are concerned that disclosure of the EU’s pre-emptive moves could sway Irish voters and make a “Yes” vote in the referendum harder to achieve. Secret minutes on the EEAS negotiations recognise the need “to remain cautious in presenting these issues” ahead of the second Irish vote.

[Sub-X]

EU to Make Ireland a Subject State
http://www.oneworldscam.com/eu_ireland_superstate.htm

The Irish Constitution is to be amended with a new Bill called the '28th Amendment'. This will makeIreland a subject-state to the EU Empire, putting our Nation under the control of a foreign parliament.

If the Lisbon Treaty is ratified, part of the Bill will see a new Article '29.4.11' inserted into the Irish Constitution.

Article 29.4.11 states that:

      'No provision of this Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by the obligations of membership of the European Union to in subsection 10 of this section, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State.'

There are enormous implications for the Irish people in this, as all foreign laws will take precedence over Irish laws. Irish wages, our social beliefs, state benefits, down to the rights of Irish citizens will be affected. Our security will no longer be guaranteed and we are likely to see an increase in Taxes, while Irish pensions, welfare payments and children benefits are to be equalized down. This will put enormous strain on Irish families, especially those from low-income backgrounds.

Pensions and Welfare payments could be halved over the next ten years, as the EU proposes that they are equalized out with Eastern European payments, and secondly as the Irish economy goes into recession, Revenue Taxes are likely to be ciphered off to EU bureaucrats and to subsidies their Privatization of semi-state bodies.

The EU is allocating over € 500 billion in its current 2006 - 2013 budget to big businesses under the guise of Research & Development. Small and medium sized businesses are being forced out of production bit by bit, while the Home Economy is being replaced by industrial slavery.

Ireland's prosperity will be severely threatened because of the EU Imperialist economic policy. Our Sovereignty will become meaningless, as Dáil Éireann is transformed into a Home Rule parliament. This will put us in a worse position that the 'Act of Union' with England in 1800.

The Eire go Brach campaign is calling on Irish people to defend their freedom and their rights of self-government. 'We have a natural entitlement to control our own destinies and to profit upon our own labours, free from the repressive control of an EU Super-state'.

Irish patriots fought against the tyranny of foreign rule for generations, and today we must cherish that freedom gained through their sacrifice for our welfare. We were bullied into voting for the EU in the 2nd Nice referendum under lies of economic sanctions and dangers to our economy.

This time the facts are more evident, highlighting the reality that if we vote for the Lisbon Treaty, we will lose Money, Power and Freedom. The Eire go Brach campaign calls for Irish people to defend our Sovereignty from the encroachment of a foreign empire - an empire that has only its own interests at mind. It is of no value to the Irish people.

The EU is undemocratic, unaccountable and totally out of touch with the people from all the various nations across Europe. That alone is enough of a reason to reject the EU Treaty, not only for Ireland but for all the people across the entire European Community.

http://eiregobrach.ie/Campaign.htm

[White Rose Sophie]

Ah, that's the tactic.  Don't worry about another Lisbon vote, just amend the Irish Constitution and the outcome of the '2nd' vote is immaterial. Jeez - don't the people SEE this?

Then again......Americans don't see what's going on right under their noses either. 

[Sub-X]

We have a lot going on here with 3 budgets within a year,the poor getting screwed(as usual)banking and property developer scandals as well as Idol,Big Brother and the Obama's new puppy,who has time to be thinking about such trivial things like the destruction of our Constitution and our freedoms.

You guys have Obama (BTW has he walked on water yet ) 

[White Rose Sophie]

We have a lot going on here with 3 budgets within a year,the poor getting screwed(as usual)banking and property developer scandals as well as Idol,Big Brother and the Obama's new puppy,who has time to be thinking about such trivial things like the destruction of our Constitution and our freedoms.

You guys have Obama (BTW has he walked on water yet ) 

Not yet.  His first task was to turn Repubwater into Whine.

[oshea.declan]

Eamon de Valera spoke out over 50 years ago about the dangers of becoming entangled in a European Union
http://info-wars.org/?p=1402

It came in a speech to the Dail on July 12, 1955 - almost 53 years to the day before the vote on the Lisbon Treaty in 2008- when he had returned from a meeting in Strasbourg.

De Valera had been to a council of Europe meeting at a time when Ireland was being courted as a member of a new European alliance. In a speech to a packed chamber, the then Taoiseach warned Ireland could lose its independence, control of the economy and become subject to laws that were not in our interests. He also warned about the dangers of a European Constitution and getting entangled in European-led military adventures, over which we would have no control.



“We have always realised that we are one nation and that, as far as physical resources were concerned, our resources were not great.

We also realise that, small as were our physical resources, there were spiritual ones which were of great value; and we never doubted that our nation, though a small one, in the material sense, could play a very important part in international affairs.”

“In a Council of Europe it would have been most unwise for our people to enter into a political federation which would mean that you had a European parliament deciding the economic circumstances, for example, of our life here.

For economic and other reasons we had refused to be satisfied with a representative of, say, one in six, as was our representative in the British parliament.

Our representative in the European Assembly was, I think, something like four out of 120 or some number of that magnitude.

That is, instead of being out-voted on matters that we would have regarded as important interests to us by five or six to one, we would have been out-voted by 30 or 40 to one.

We did not strive to get out of that domination [British] of our affairs by outside force, or we did not get out of that position to get into a worse one.

One of the things that made me unhappy at Strasbourg was that I saw that at the first meeting of the Assembly, instead of trying to provide organs for co-operation, there was an attempt to provide a full-blooded political constitution, there were members who were actually dividing themselves into socialists parties, and so on.”

Regarding neutrality:

“In every war fought, those who are fighting will always find good and moral causes for the fight…if the world does not learn wisdom and if there are to be future wars, there will be no dearth of good causes which war will be supposed to further.

A small nation has to be extremely cautious when it enters into alliances which bring it, willy nilly, into those wars…we would not be consulted in how a war would be started - the great powers would do that - and when it ended, no matter who won…we would not be consulted as to the terms on which it should end.”

                                                                                                                                        Eamon De Valera

[Sub-X]

Great find Declan 


Yep we have only had our own Constitution for 93 years and seems like their sick of it already.There a certain thing that I would not be in agreement with "Dev" on but this is definitely not one of them.All the reasons mentioned are most of the reasons why it would be such a bad idea to get further into bed with Europe.

[oshea.declan]

Fine Gael Undermines Neutrality and The Irish Constitution



Kenny must learn the facts on neutrality



    Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny was questioned on RTE    Radio’s ‘This Week’ programme on Sunday by Gerald Barry on the statement by Captain Billy Timmins that Ireland should abandon neutrality and join EU common defence arrangements.

Mr Kenny responded that “there is a constitutional prohibition on Ireland abandoning neutrality” and then proceeded to misinterpret and downplay what Capt Timmins had said at the Fine Gael Ard Fheis.

When further prompted that Capt Timmins had said Ireland should be part of a common EU defence, Mr Kenny repeated: “There is, as you know, a constitutional prohibition on ending neutrality and that ultimately is a matter for the Irish people.”

This is not correct.

Bunreacht na hEireann contains no prohibition whatsoever on Ireland abandoning neutrality. Ireland does not have any constitutional provision or article dealing with neutrality. In Ireland’s case, neutrality is a declared policy of successive Irish governments, since at least 1939.

This commits the Government to comply with international laws and treaties on neutrality, particularly The Hague Convention V 1907 on Neutrality, which forbids the passage of belligerent troops through a state such as Ireland that declares itself to be a neutral state.

The Irish people have consistently supported a continuation of neutrality, and the Irish Peace and Neutrality Alliance is campaigning to have positive neutrality enshrined as an article in the Irish Constitution.

Before Mr Kenny and Capt Timmins send Irish soldiers off to another European war, as their ‘forefathers’ John Redmond and Major Willie Redmond did in 1914, the least they might do is read Bunreacht na hEireann.

At least Willie Redmond went to fight and die in World War I. Given his military service, Capt Timmins might be prepared to do likewise.

However, history should warn us that politicians normally fight to the last drop of everyone else’s blood.

Edward Horgan
Commandant (retd)
International Secretary Irish Peace and neutrality alliance
Castletroy, co Limerick



http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/kenny-must-learn-the-facts-on-neutrality-1700717.html

[White Rose Sophie]

Fine Gael Undermines Neutrality and The Irish Constitution



Kenny must learn the facts on neutrality



   

However, history should warn us that politicians normally fight to the last drop of everyone else’s blood.

Edward Horgan
Commandant (retd)
International Secretary Irish Peace and neutrality alliance
Castletroy, co Limerick


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/kenny-must-learn-the-facts-on-neutrality-1700717.html

That is a magnificent quote.  I think I'm gonna use it on a sign.   

[Sub-X]

Europe's eyes back on Ireland as Czechs approve Lisbon
http://www.topnews.in/europes-eyes-back-ireland-czechs-approve-lisbon-2163252
7 May 2009

Dublin - With the Czech Republic's parliament approving the Lisbon Treaty this week, the eyes of Europe will now once again be on Ireland, which rejected the treaty in a June 2008 referendum.

Irish acceptance has to be achieved before the treaty, aimed at streamlining decision-making in the 27-member European Union, can come into force. Even though the Czech parliament has now approved the treaty, Czech President Vaclav Klaus has hinted he won't sign it until Ireland reverses its rejection.

"The Lisbon Treaty is dead for the moment. It is dead because one member state of the European Union turned it down in a referendum," the eurosceptic Klaus told reporters after the vote. "Therefore, my decision on its ratification is not on the agenda for the time being."

Last June, 53.4 per cent of Irish voters rejected the treaty, motivated by a myriad of concerns including fears about neutrality and a loss of influence in Europe, and worries that the country's favourable corporate tax regime would be jeopardized by EU tax harmonization.

However, the global recession has changed everything with Ireland harder hit than almost any other European country. Tax revenues, overly dependent on the construction and property sectors, have collapsed, forcing steep government borrowing, while unemployment has risen sharply. It is predicted that gross domestic product
(GDP) will decline by as much as 10 per cent this year.

Understandably, a country buffeted by such harsh economic winds has become keenly aware of the benefits of EU membership, with Iceland serving as the perfect example of what can befall a small, independent country in these tough times.

As a consequence, an Irish Times TNS/mrbi poll of 1,000 voters in February found that 51 per cent of Irish voters would now back the treaty if Ireland is given guarantees on key concerns such as taxation, abortion and neutrality. The no vote has declined to 33 per cent.

Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen has committed to rerunning the referendum. After an EU summit in Brussels in December at which he received assurances, he said that "on the basis of today's agreement ... I am prepared to go back to the Irish people next year."

No date has been set for the second referendum but it is expected to be held this autumn.

Cowen's problem is that while polls have shown growing support for the treaty, his government is widely unpopular, blamed by many for the demise of the so-called Celtic Tiger which saw a decade of runaway growth.

His Fianna Fail party is expected to take a hammering in June European and local elections and party strategists will be hoping that by the time a Lisbon rerun comes around the electorate will have already exorcized its anti-government rage, allowing the treaty to be judged on its merits alone.

As with the original referendum, all the main political parties are backing the treaty. The main opposition will again come from the Libertas movement of millionaire entrepreneur Declan Ganley.

Libertas describes itself as "a pan-European political movement dedicated to creating a new, democratic, accountable and open European Union" and is fielding candidates across Europe for June's European Parliament elections. Ganley himself is running in Ireland's North-West constituency.

Ganley is confident of defeating the referendum again but most commentators believe that a badly shaken electorate coupled with a less complacent political establishment will ensure a yes vote for the Lisbon Treaty this time around. The Irish have form in this regard, originally rejecting the Nice Treaty in 2001 before accepting it in a rerun a year later.

Aside from in the Czech Republic and Ireland, the ratification has not been completed in Germany and Poland, whose presidents are yet to sign the charter.

[Sub-X]

Czechs Must OK Lisbon Treaty To Avoid Russian Influence - PM
http://news.morningstar.com/newsnet/ViewNews.aspx?article=/DJ/200905030902DOWJONESDJONLINE000278_univ.xml
3 May 2009

PRAGUE (AFP)--The Czech Republic should approve the European Union's reforming Lisbon Treaty to avoid falling under Russia's influence, Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek said Sunday.
"We must feel what is happening in Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia. Russia's assertivity should warn us that...there is a certain desire to pull us back in the sphere of its influence," he said in a television debate.

"All the cons (of the treaty) are nothing compared with what we might be in for in 10 or 15 years" if we fail to approve the treaty, said Topolanek, whose country holds the rotating E.U. presidency.

The Czech Republic, a former communist country, is one of the nations delaying the ratification of the treaty, along with Ireland which rejected it in a referendum last year and will hold another vote by November.

The treaty, which must be ratified by all E.U. member countries to take effect, was approved by the lower house of Czech parliament in February. The upper house is expected to vote on the text, intended to streamline decision- making in the wake of E.U. enlargement in 2004 and 2007, on May 6.

After that, it must be signed by its strong opponent President Vaclav Klaus.

Topolanek, whose center-right cabinet will be replaced next Friday after being toppled in March, said the treaty was "unlikely to be rejected" and he " recommended to support the ratification with all objections I have to it."

He also said Klaus should let the temporary prime minister, nonpartisan Jan Fischer, lead the E.U. council meeting in June, because the president has no executive powers under the Czech constitution.

Topolanek has been in charge of most presidency events up to now, but the staunchly euroskeptic Klaus may eclipse the internationally inexperienced Fischer now that Topolanek is gone - to the dismay of many E.U. officials.

It has already been announced that Klaus will be in charge of the E.U. summits with JapanMay 4, RussiaMay 21-22 and South KoreaMay 23.

"I would recommend the Czech prime minister should lead the June council meeting. Its agenda includes many things that need an executive leadership," said Topolanek.

But "if the president decides to represent the Czech Republic at an international event, no one can prevent him," he said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ireland must ratify the Treaty to avoid influence from aliens from other planets   (or if we don't believe that) the British Empire 

[Sub-X]

Klaus scorns senators over Lisbon
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8037441.stm
7 May 2009

Czech President Vaclav Klaus has said he has no intention of ratifying the EU's Lisbon Treaty for now, even though the Czech parliament has approved it.

Mr Klaus, one of the treaty's fiercest opponents, said he would wait for any new legal challenge before signing it.

He also poured scorn on senators who had changed their minds over the treaty, calling them cowardly.

The Lisbon Treaty, aimed at reforming the EU's decision-making process, must be ratified by all 27 member states.

Voters in the Republic of Ireland rejected the treaty in a referendum last year, but will most likely be asked to vote again in the autumn.

The treaty is seen by opponents as a way to impose a federalist agenda, undermining national sovereignty.

'Not dead'

Shortly after Czech senators voted 54-20 in favour of the Lisbon Treaty on Wednesday, President Klaus appeared live on television from Prague Castle to give his response.

Mr Klaus criticised senators who he said had caved in to pressure from politicians and the media, and "turned their backs on the Czech Republic's interests".

   
"The president is entitled to do whatever he wishes in the framework of his constitutional rights"
Karel Schwarzenberg-Czech Foreign Minister

"Our politicians have always found similar cowardly explanations: We are too small, too weak, we do not mean anything in the European context, we must fall into line, although we disagree with it," he said.

"I reject this. Either we regained sovereignty after the 1989 overthrow of the communist regime... or this was nothing but a tragic error," he continued.

The result depended on many members of the conservative Civic Democratic Party (ODS) led by outgoing Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek, putting their doubts aside and backing the plan.

   
LISBON TREATY PROGRESS
Approved by parliament: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, The Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, UK
Defeated by referendum: Irish Republic
Delays: Legal challenge holding up ratification in Germany, Polish and Czech presidents also resisting ratification


Mr Klaus said he would refuse to ratify the treaty, pending an attempt to have it reviewed by the Czech Constitutional Court, a process that could take several months.

"The treaty is dead for the moment because one member state rejected it in a referendum. This is why a decision on the ratification of the treaty is not on the agenda for me," he added.

The Czech Foreign Minister, Karel Schwarzenberg, told the BBC that Mr Klaus' opposition would not stop the treaty's eventual ratification.

"The president is entitled to do whatever he wishes in the framework of his constitutional rights. I do think it's lamentable, but the Lisbon Treaty isn't dead, as we proved today by ratifying it," he said.

[Sub-X]

Ireland "not alone on Lisbon" - Libertas
http://www.libertas.eu/en/news/9-news/307-ireland-qnot-alone-on-lisbonq-libertas

Ireland is "not on its own with regard to the Lisbon Treaty, whatever Brussels might want people to think" Libertas chairman, Declan Ganley has said. Ganley was responding to comments made by European politicians following the vote on the Treaty in the Czech Senate.

Commenting, Mr. Ganley said:
"Across Europe, people will be disappointed that the Czech Senate bowed to the bullying and browbeating of Brussels. Libertas is pleased that President Klaus has indicated that he will stand firm beside the people of Ireland and will not ratify it without their consent. We are also thankful to the President of Poland, who has said that he will also stand by the people of Ireland and will not ratify Lisbon without their consent.

People have claimed that Ireland is 'isolated', when in fact we're simply representing the majority of European opinion here. We remain an independent, sovereign, and proud nation. We know all too well that the solutions to the economic crisis are not to be found in a Brussels engorged with more power and free from all democratic oversight, as
would happen under Lisbon. The solutions are instead to be found in a Europe which listens to its own people. Now more than ever, Europe must heed our concerns, and respond to great issues like the economic crisis - something which the brutal assault on democratic decisions in France, Ireland, and the Netherlands shows that Brussels today is incapable of.

Whatever the elites in Brussels say, this Treaty is still dead. If there is another referendum in Ireland, it will be defeated. Before any referendum, Libertas is the only voice significantly strengthening the hand of those of us who favour democracy in the European Parliament.

These European Elections are a chance for the people of Ireland - and the people of Europe, to express their disgust at a political establishment that is out of ideas, dispossessed of any sense of accountability, and well past its sell by date. We have the chance to invest our trust in a new generation of young European leaders with new ideas, and a new vision. And on June 5th, millions of Europeans will vote to renew Europe once again"

[dogmadestroyer]

Not related to the excellent work in this thread... but Sub, its good to see you around again.

[Sub-X]

Not related to the excellent work in this thread... but Sub, its good to see you around again.

Ah Dogma,always a privilege and a pleasure to see you my friend 

Vote no to the Lisbon Treaty and EU militarisation Joe Higgins
http://www.socialistparty.net/pub/pages/socialist032feb08/3.html
Joe Higgins Column

In the Lisbon Treaty, the provisions relating to the foreign policy of the European Union and the proposed military strategy have very serious and far reaching implications. If Lisbon is ratified, no Member State could have an independent foreign policy that was in conflict with the EU majority. This means that , even if  a big majority of the Irish people vehemently opposed, let’s say, a particular EU military action outside of Europe, the Irish government  would be obliged to support that action internationally.

Paragraph 27 of Lisbon states:“The Member States shall support the Union’s external and security policy actively and unreservedly in a spirit of loyalty and mutual solidarity and shall comply with the Union’s action in this area.” Not only that, but according to Paragraph 50, Irish embassies around the world would be obliged to propagate the official EU line. “The diplomatic missions of Member States ... in third countries and international organisations shall cooperate and shall contribute to formulating and implementing the common approach.”

The supporters of the Treaty try to cover this up by insisting that the Treaty recognises the right of ‘neutral’ countries to opt out of any military campaign. This is true but they refuse to confirm that Ireland would be obliged to give political, moral and propaganda support. Of course the word ‘neutral’ is utterly debased and meaningless in the context of the Irish government’s logistical support to the US Army at Shannon Airport in the criminal invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Supporters of the treaty also pour scorn on the idea that the EU would ever be involved in an Iraq like situation claiming that the EU is entirely a project for peace. In fact it is not at all farfetched to warn of the militarisation of the EU as a step to backing up its economic weight around the world, in the same way as the United States uses its armed forces. The Common Foreign and Security Policy paragraphs speak of advancing the “vital interests” of the EU and authorises military action abroad under a very wide range of headings such as “joint disarmament operations...military advice and assistance...tasks of combat forces in crisis management,” and, of course, “the fight against terrorism.” In fact, the language of the Lisbon Treaty has uncanny echoes of that of the Bush administration in its justification for the invasion of Iraq.

Nor is it farfetched to sketch out an Iraq like situation involving the EU. Recently former British Prime Minister Blair, co-leader of the Iraq invasion, was mooted as one of the candidates for the new position of President of the European Council. According to the treaty, the President, who is appointed by the EU governments  “shall ensure the external representation of the Union on issues concerning the common foreign and security policy.”  No less than 15 EU Member States had troops in Iraq at some stage of the occupation. With right wing governments in power in the EU, with a character like Blair as the nominal Head of the Union and with vital interests at stake i.e. the securing of raw materials and the profits of the major corporations, we can well imagine foreign military adventures.

Lisbon, in fact, carefully creates the structures for armed intervention abroad. It demands increased military spending, and organises an EU armaments industry under the newly formed European Defence Agency. It also allows groups of the more powerful military powers within the Union to form military alliances among themselves which may then be authorised to act abroad on behalf of the EU. This would be an official EU operation and no matter what, Lisbon obliges all Member States to support it.

The militarisation strategy alone is reason enough to roundly reject the Lisbon Treaty. A ‘No’ vote in this regard is a ‘Yes’ to an end to the criminal waste of resources on armaments and to developing a foreign policy that is to the benefit of European workers and working people, the oppressed and the impoverished millions around the world.

[luckee1]

Not yet.  His first task was to turn Repubwater into Whine.

 

but o got the crown of thornz

Sub X outstanding thread!!!!

[Sub-X]

but o got the crown of thornz

Sub X outstanding thread!!!!

Thanking you Luckee 

In search of Europe: Ireland
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8039493.stm
8 May 2009

The Celtic Tiger's confidence has taken a battering from the recession - and the crisis might draw the Republic of Ireland closer to the EU again, the BBC's Jonny Dymond reports.

There is something about Ireland today that makes you want to weep.

Just 12 months ago this was still a country in great shape. It had over the preceding decade escaped from the shadow of Britain. It had reversed centuries of emigration, each departure an indictment of a failing economy.

It had become a successful, self-confident country, sucking in investment and labour, sending out its best, not as economic refugees but as advertisements for a vibrant modern country that had - shock, horror - outpaced its neighbour and one-time master.

It had even delighted in derailing the EU's best-laid plans, rejecting the Lisbon Treaty by a healthy margin on a decent turnout.

Now, as they did almost a year ago in that treaty referendum, placards battle for voters' attention on lampposts across the land.

But the economic bubble has burst with a vengeance; construction is at a standstill, house prices have slumped, unemployment is at 11.4% and rising very fast and once again citizens are looking abroad for work.

So if anyone is looking for any debate about anything other than the economy as European elections draw near, look elsewhere.

And the debate - such as it is - about the relationship with Europe is completely overshadowed by anguished discussion of the Lisbon Treaty.

Shattered crystal

Rachel, 37, a Dubliner strolling the streets of the south-eastern city of Waterford on a sunny evening, summed up much of the national mood.

"I voted 'No' in the last referendum on the treaty," she says, "because I wanted to give [the governing party] Fianna Fail a kick in the arse, and no-one explained it to me.

"But the world has fallen apart since then and I want to live in Ireland, not Iceland."

Two of three elderly ladies out for a walk voted "No" last time. In the next referendum, widely expected to come in October, they'll vote "Yes".

"The way things are, we have to," one says.

To see "the way things are" drive five minutes out of town. What was once a factory producing world-famous Waterford Crystal stands silent.

The visitors' centre, which used to draw more than a quarter of a million tourists a year to the town, now has a pathetic trickle going in and out, a good number of them wondering what happened to the factory tour they were promised.

Walter Cullen worked in the factory until the mid-1980s, before becoming a trade union official. Like many on the left, he opposes the Lisbon Treaty - a complex document aimed at streamlining EU institutions. But Walter can see which way the wind is blowing.

"I think that the next referendum will be about frightening people into voting for the treaty, because [they'll be told] if they don't vote for the treaty things will get worse for Ireland."

Walter stresses that he is still opposed to the treaty. But when pushed, he accepts that the economic weather has turned hard against him.

Brave Jonnie

The truth is that the government probably won't have to break sweat to "frighten" people into voting for the treaty. The crashing economy has already put the fear of God into them.

In a bid to escape the gloom I drove to Clonmel races, north of Waterford. I went in search of my namesake Brave Jonnie, running in the 1845.

His owner, farmer Damian Cassidy, voted "No" last time. Next time will be different.

"We weren't prepared for [the treaty], and that's why I went for a 'No'. This time I'm told that if I don't vote 'Yes' Ireland will be left behind. So I'm changing my vote so that I will vote 'Yes'."

In June last year, just as the Irish government was preparing to announce the conditions under which it would put the treaty again to the people, I asked a government official why he thought they could get a "Yes" second time around.
Betting at Clonmel races
Clonmel races: Rain clouds match the gloomy economic conditions

"Because," he said, with cool cynicism, "by then we will have revealed the treaty's opponents for the crackpots that they are and the recession will have terrified everyone into voting 'Yes'."

And so every jump in unemployment, every step backwards the Irish economy takes, must gladden the hearts of those who would drive the treaty through. It's this strange take on democracy that makes you want to weep.

I put 10 euros on Brave Jonnie. The trainer assured me he was a winner.

He trailed in fifth, under heavy clouds that swiftly turned to rain.

I always make lousy bets - which is which why I normally avoid the bookies. But I'd put very good money on a "Yes" to the treaty, come the next referendum.

[Sub-X]

Lisbon Treaty shadow looms large over UK elections
http://www.euractiv.com/en/eu-elections/lisbon-treaty-shadow-looms-large-uk-elections/article-182100
7 May 2009

Despite having already ratified the Lisbon Treaty, the issue of UK ratification could come back to haunt this June's European elections, as the Conservative Party has made it a central plank of its electoral strategy. The extreme-right British National Party may also make use of the treaty issue to reap gains in what is generally expected to be a Eurosceptic majority vote.
Background:

The UK ratified the Lisbon Treaty by parliamentary majority in June 2008, the same month that Ireland voted 'no' by popular referendum (EurActiv 26/06/08).

However, the UK Conservatives have consistently attacked Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown for failing to hold a referendum on the issue, arguing that the Lisbon Treaty is merely a "rebranded" version of the European Constitution, which Brown pledged to put to the people in 2005.

Conservative leader David Cameron, who all current polls predict will be the UK's next PM, has promised to hold a referendum on Lisbon if he comes to power before the treaty is ratified in all member states and passed into EU law.

A general election in the UK will be held at the latest in June 2010, though some political analysts believe the beleaguered Brown government could fall before then.

As this year's European elections will be held under the Nice Treaty, the UK's total number of seats will fall from 78 to 72.

Since taking the reins of the Conservative party, David Cameron has consistently used the Lisbon Treaty issue as a stick with which to beat UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown. Indeed, in recent weeks, Cameron and other leading Tories have upped the ante.

Tory foreign affairs spokesman William Hague, last week described Brown's refusal to hold a referendum as a betrayal of voter trust which "debases the coinage of politics". As part of the Tories' election campaign, Cameron condemened the prime minister for "flip-flopping", and promised that if the "constitution [lisbon Treaty] were not in force at the time of the general election, a Conservative government would hold a referendum on it, urge a 'no' vote, and reverse Britain's ratification if successful".

To emphasise the point even further, the Lisbon Treaty is the first issue raised on the Tories' election campaign website for the 2009 elections. They have also launched an online campaign for an Irish-style referendum.

'Cameron doesn't have anything else to talk about,' say critics

Cameron's critics argue that his electoral strategy is designed to attract nationalist sentiment in the UK, while also covering up the fact that the Tories lack a coherent policy platform for the European elections.

"Resuscitating the Lisbon issue amounts to little more than flogging a dead horse," one analyst told EurActiv.

Prominent British Liberal MEP Andrew Duff claimed that Cameron has taken this line because "he doesn't have anything else to talk about".

Duff told EurActiv that the Tory leader is constrained by his party's powerful Eurosceptic wing from elaborating policy plans at the European level. "These elections will expose Cameron as someone whose only focus is on the national," he concluded.

Irish European Affairs Minister Dick Roche delivered an equally critical assessment. Speaking to EurActiv, he said that "these elections should be about contemporary EU issues," and argued that "the EU's critics in certain member states who complain about the democratic deficit are in fact contributing to that deficit by using these European Parliament elections for something other than their real purpose".

A Eurosceptic vote

European elections in the UK are more often than not an outlet for the country's considerable body of Eurosceptic opinion.

In the 2004 elections, the Tories won 27 seats to Labour's 19, while the UK's most strongly pro-EU party, the Liberal Democrats, won as many seats as the UK Independence Party (UKIP), whose goal is to withdraw Britain from the EU.

There has been widespread speculation that the far-right British National Party (BNP) could make gains at this year's elections. Labour party chair Harriet Harman earlier this year warned against the "very real risk" of the party winning more seats, warning mainstream parties that the BNP threat "cannot be ignored".

UKIP, meanwhile, is expected to post losses following their huge success in 2004.

Andrew Duff believes that the UK is experiencing a nationalistic phase in its history, as a result of which "the majority of UK parties are now opposed to the EU".

However, the Liberal MEP believes the multitude of anti-EU voices could, in effect, drown each other out. "The anti-European terrain is very crowded this year," he said, "but voters could be puzzled by the proliferation".

[luckee1]

OK, so the use of Voter fatigue didn't work so now the nwo will use the same tried and true tactic of forced economic hardship (no-one buy products from Ireland) again, to force their will on this beautiful country!

It makes one weep, with fury.

[White Rose Sophie]

Not related to the excellent work in this thread... but Sub, its good to see you around again.

DOGMA DUDE!!!!n  How ya been?   Hadn't seen the brewmeister around here for ages!!!   

(sorry, off topic)

[Rob Sandman]

Lisbon Treaty strengthens role of religion says EU
http://euobserver.com/9/28106
11 May 2009

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Securing a stronger consultative role for European religions in EU policy making is another good reason to support the Lisbon Treaty, say two of the EU's most senior officials.

Speaking after a meeting with European religious leaders on Monday (11 May), European Parliament President Hans-Gert Poettering said such discussions in the future could not be guaranteed without the full ratification of the Lisbon Treaty.

A number of religious and pro-life groups in Ireland are concerned that the Lisbon Treaty could allow abortion in "through the backdoor"

Mr Pottering said the annual inter-religious dialogue between European religious leaders and the EU institutions - formalised in 2005 - were carried out on the "basis of good will" rather than because of a legal obligation.

"If the Lisbon Treaty is not ratified, with the new leaderships in the commission and the parliament, they could abolish this dialogue because legally it's not binding," he said.

He added that it is the "responsibility of Ireland" to ensure the treaty comes into effect.

The Irish government is set to hold a second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty this autumn, following an initial rejection by a majority of Irish voters last June.

However, the document is also facing several legal challenges in Mr Pottering's home country of Germany and awaits presidential signatures in the Czech Republic and Poland.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso, who co-chaired the meeting with Mr Poettering, told journalists the Lisbon Treaty would also re-inforce dialogue between non-confessional organisations.

"One of the purposes of these meetings is to highlight how it is important in Europe to keep freedom of religion [and] also the freedom not to have a religion," he said.

The Church and Lisbon

"[The Lisbon Treaty] is the first time ever that our churches and our religious communities are included in the law of the European union," Mr Pottering said.

However, the EU's secularism, in particular politically unwillingness to include a reference to the Christian god in the Constitutional Treaty's preamble, was one reason given for conservative Christian groups' opposition to the Lisbon Treaty during the country's referendum on the document last June.

The Lisbon Treaty is a rewritten version of the Constitutional Treaty rejected by French and Dutch voters in 2005, containing many of the main proposals but doing away with reference to European symbols such as a European flag and anthem.

Also attending Monday's meeting was the Catholic archbishop for Dublin, Diarmuid Martin.

Mr Martin has increasingly voiced his support for the Lisbon treaty in recent months ahead of a second Irish referendum on the document this autumn.

"Ireland needs Europe but also Europe needs Ireland," he says. "Europe needs the diversity of its smaller nations and different cultures."

Mr Martin referred to the lack of understanding by Irish citizens ahead of the last year's referendum, adding that current debate was helping to provide "greater clarity ... on a number of issues that were of concern to the Irish electorate."

One issue of concern to Irish religious groups is the possibility that Ireland could be forced to accept abortion under European law if the Lisbon Treaty is ratified.

Abortion is not currently allowed under Irish legislation, a situation that has prompted three of its citizens to take legal cases to the European Court of Human Rights.

The Czech Republic, currently chairing the EU's six-month rotating presidency, is currently drafting three legal guarantees for the Irish government that would help ensure its sovereignty in the areas of taxation, defence and such social affairs in return for accepting the Treaty.

Doubts remain however over the genuine effectiveness of the three legal protocols that are likely to be introduced via an EU accession treaty, most probably that of Croatia.

A number of EU member states are also concerned that any Irish legal guarantees could result in the Lisbon ratification process being re-opened in their countries.

[White Rose Sophie]

Also attending Monday's meeting was the Catholic archbishop for Dublin, Diarmuid Martin.

Mr Martin has increasingly voiced his support for the Lisbon treaty in recent months ahead of a second Irish referendum on the document this autumn.

"Ireland needs Europe but also Europe needs Ireland," he says. "Europe needs the diversity of its smaller nations and different cultures."

Mr Martin referred to the lack of understanding by Irish citizens ahead of the last year's referendum, adding that current debate was helping to provide "greater clarity ... on a number of issues that were of concern to the Irish electorate."

WHAT?

Lack of F......ing Understanding?  No, you spawn of SATAN, they understood it ALL too well!!!   

Ah, now they line up the 'clergy' all in a row to add just a wee bit mor' pressure!!!!!!!  No buddy bein' goin' agin da church now, eh?  F' TARDS!!!!!

(sorry,    )

Betrayal from all sides.   

[luckee1]

Grneyelady, 

I have asked SubX if he had read a book by Seuman MacManus: "The Story of the Irish Race"  You will find that is part and parcel of religious leaders' constant betrayal of the people.  Actually all the recent posts in re: Ireland is a repeat of Ireland's History. 

[Sub-X]

Red C/SBP Lisbon poll: May 17th.


Yes 57

No 24

Don't know 19

[White Rose Sophie]

Grneyelady, 

I have asked SubX if he had read a book by Seuman MacManus: "The Story of the Irish Race"  You will find that is part and parcel of religious leaders' constant betrayal of the people.  Actually all the recent posts in re: Ireland is a repeat of Ireland's History. 

I'll add to my reading list.  Sounds most interesting.   

[Freeski]

Red C/SBP Lisbon poll: May 17th.


Yes 57

No 24

Don't know 19

Fixed

[Sub-X]

Minister's spin guru also helps Libertas
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ministers-spin-guru-also-helps-libertas-1742075.html
17 May 2009

Public relations "guru" Terry Prone, whose company has received almost €50,000 from the Department of Foreign Affairs to prepare a confidential "communications action plan" in advance of a second Lisbon Treaty vote, is advising two Libertas candidates in the European elections, the Sunday Independent can reveal.

A close confidante of Micheal Martin, the Foreign Affairs Minister, Ms Prone, who has advised a succession of high-profile Fianna Fail politicians in recent years, has left herself open to an accusation of a conflict of interest by now also providing media training to anti-Lisbon Treaty Libertas candidates.

An embarrassed Department of Foreign Affairs, which said it only became aware of Ms Prone's contract with Libertas "in recent days", yesterday said it could not confirm whether a conflict existed as it was "not privy to the media training content" provided by Ms Prone to the Libertas candidates.

The wife of Tom Savage, chairman of the RTE Authority, Ms Prone, of The Communications Clinic in Dublin, has refused to confirm or deny whether she is advising Caroline Simons and Raymond O'Malley, Libertas' candidates in Dublin and Ireland East respectively, because, she says, it would be "improper" to do so.

However, a spokesman for Libertas said he was "shocked" at the disclosure that Ms Prone's company had last November been awarded a contract by the Department of Foreign Affairs to prepare a plan on how to communicate Europe more effectively.

The Libertas spokesman confirmed that Ms Prone was personally providing "media training" to Ms Simons and Mr O'Malley. He said Libertas would be "reviewing" its contract with The Communications Clinic.

Having subsequently spoken to Ms Prone, the Libertas spokesman last night said he was "relatively satisfied" that a conflict of interest did not arise, although he added that he was "still surprised" at the revelation.

A spokesman for Mr Martin said that The Communications Clinic had informed the Department "in recent days" that it was providing media training to Libertas.

The Sunday Independent first made inquiries about the possible conflict on Wednesday. Mr Martin's spokesman added that Ms Prone's company had provided media training to candidates from the various political parties, including Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, Green Party and independent candidates as well as Libertas.

Libertas is a pan-European movement dedicated to what it calls "creating a new, democratic and open European Union, from the ground up". It successfully campaigned against the first Lisbon Treaty referendum last May and will campaign for a No vote in the referendum in October.

Last week, the Department of Foreign Affairs told the Sunday Independent: "A contract to the value of €48,000 was awarded to The Communications Clinic in November 2008 to develop a plan to communicate more effectively with the public about the EU and Ireland's EU membership.

"The tender process was carried out in accordance with Department of Finance procurement guidelines for contracts under €50,000.

"Six tenders were received in response to the invitation to tender. The Action Plan has been finalised and is in the process of being implemented by the Department of Foreign Affairs," the spokesperson added.

The invitation to tender document intimates that The Communications Clinic may be paid additional daily rate sums during the implementation of the plan.

As a public relations expert of many years' experience, there is no doubt that Ms Prone's company would have met all of the criteria laid down by the department, including to observe strict confidentiality.

Ms Prone declined to address the issue of a possible conflict of interest last week on the grounds that neither she nor her company can discuss services it provides to any political party or organisation.

However, a spokesman for Libertas was taken aback by the disclosure. He said: "When we hired The Communications Clinic we specifically asked if the company was in any way conflicted. I must say I am shocked by this disclosure," he said. He said that Ms Prone had already undertaken three of four proposed media training sessions with its two candidates.

He refused to reveal what The Communications Clinic had been paid by Libertas for its services.

However, sources close to Libertas said a "four-figure sum" was involved.

[Sub-X]

New EU political group open to Libertas members
http://euobserver.com/9/28128
14 May 2009

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - An emerging anti-federalist political group in the European Parliament would be open to take in Libertas members, if the anti-treaty party is unable to form a group itself.

The British Conservative party, the Czech Republic's ODS and Poland's Law and Justice party are currently in talks with several smaller parties to form a new anti-EU integration group after the elections next month.

The new group aims to unveil its name and full membership shortly after the election result on 7 June.

Jan Zahradil, the head of the ODS delegation in Brussels, told EUobserver on Thursday (14 May) that more than four smaller parties have already signed up, but do not want to go public yet.

"They are junior parties, the kind that might get one, two or three MEPs in the elections," he said.

The junior parties come from both 'old' and 'new' member states. Some of them are in the existing, right-leaning European People's Party (EPP-ED) and Union for Europe of the Nations (UEN) groups in parliament and some have never sent MEPs to Brussels before, the Czech politician revealed.

The new group expects to get at least 65 MEPs, which would make it the fourth largest in parliament.

Mr Zahradil said the group is also interested in taking in MEPs from the Libertas party, if Libertas politicians find themselves stranded after the EU vote.

"I believe we can negotiate on some of the political issues that are now being discussed within Libertas. My feeling is, they will not make it in seven countries. If they cannot establish their own group, in my opinion this [taking in Libertas MEPs] is perfectly negotiable," he said.

"I assume they wouldn't want to be 'non-inscrit'."

Under EU rules, a political movement has to have at least 25 MEPs coming from seven EU countries in order to form a "group." Group status gives the right to good places in parliament committees, access to meetings of top officials, more speaking time in plenary and greater financial resources.

Independent, or 'non-inscrit,' MEPs are usually condemned to obscurity.

Fitting in

Any potential link-up with Libertas, seen as a dangerous upstart by the EU establishment, might prove tricky for the British Conservatives and Poland's Law and Justice. Both parties see themselves as part of the political mainstream despite their anti-integrationist views.

A spokesman for the British Conservative EU delegation said it "does not give a running commentary" on the new group's formation. Law and Justice also declined to speak.

But Mr Zahradil said that some of Libertas' ideas fit in with the new group's agenda.

Both sides dislike the Lisbon treaty and oppose further transfer of national sovereignty to the EU, he explained. "If the Lisbon treaty did not come into force due the German court or the Irish referendum, we could live with that. The EU does not need this treaty," the Czech politician said.

The German constitutional court is currently debating the compatibility of the treaty with German law. It also faces a second referendum in Ireland, expected in October.

Mr Zahradil ruled out co-operation with any of the more controversial Libertas figures, however.

Czech Libertas candidate Vladimir Zelezny was this week convicted on tax evasion charges. The recent former head of Poland's far-right League of Polish Families party, Wojciech Wierzejski, is running for Libertas in Poland.

"We are not going to negotiate with people like the League of Polish Families," Mr Zahradil said.

Asked if Libertas' leader, Irish businessman Declan Ganley, would be welcome in the new group, the Czech politician cast doubt on Mr Ganley's intention to become an MEP if elected. "The question is, how serious he is in his own running," Mr Zahradil said.

In full swing

For its part, Libertas denied making any contingency plans for failure in the EU vote.

"Our sights are firmly set on forming a Libertas group within the European Parliament," a spokeswoman told this website. "We are not considering other options."

Libertas is this week making headlines across eastern Europe after paying Polish anti-Communist hero and Nobel laureate Lech Walesa to speak at its rallies in Rome and Madrid.

Mr Walesa in Madrid on Thursday voiced support for the Lisbon treaty and at the same time wished the anti-treaty party "success" for the sake of pluralism in EU debate.

"I'm here to talk about freedom and democracy, to say, we are building Europe together, that there is a place for everybody," he said. "I would talk with the devil himself, just to tell him, that I love God."

[Sub-X]

Red C/SBP Lisbon poll: May 17th.


Yes 57

No 24

Don't know 19

Sunday Business Post Red C Poll
http://www.irishelection.com/05/sunday-business-post-red-c-poll/
17 May 2009

Overall Opinion Poll Results - 1000 people polled.

Fianna Fáil 24 +1

Fine Gael 34 + 1

Labour 18 -1

Green Party 5 -2

Sinn Féin 7 +1

There are also Local and European Poll Results as party of this opinion poll - I (or Cian!) will add results later.  The only fact I remember from the blitz of figures is Declan Ganley at 5%

Lisbon Treaty Referendum

Lisbon yes 57 No 24

[Sub-X]

Support for EU treaty grows in Ireland
http://euobserver.com/9/28136
18 May 2009

Support for the EU's Lisbon Treaty among Irish citizens has grown in the past three months, with 52 percent saying they would vote "yes" if a second referendum was held on the issue, a poll conducted for the Irish Times shows.

The TNS mrbi poll, published Monday (18 May), indicates that the majority in favour of the treaty, rejected in a referendum in the country one year ago, has consolidated despite the growing unpopularity of the government.

The survey represents an increase of one percentage point of those in favour of the treaty compared to a similar poll in February and a drop of four points to 29 percent for those planning to vote No. There was a rise of three points - to 19 percent - of don't knows.

The survey also showed that Irish people overwhelmingly consider the country better off inside the European Union during the current economic crisis (79%), a drop of one point on the February poll.

Conducted from Tuesday to Thursday last week, among 2000 people, the poll was based on the assumption that the referendum will be held in autumn after Ireland has secured legal guarantees in three areas of concern - taxation, defence and abortion.

The results come despite the government's unpopularity. The main governing party, Fianna Fail, is polling at an all time low, largely due to the tough measures it has had to take in the face of the global financial crisis, which has wracked the country's economy.

EU leaders are expected to agree Ireland's Lisbon guarantees at a summit in June, paving the way for the government to announce the referendum date, expected in October.

In a shock vote almost a year ago, Irish voters rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 53.4 percent against to 46.6 in favour.

Since then parliamentary ratification has been completed in the other 26 member states but the treaty needs approval in all member states if it is to go into force.

The Polish and Czech presidents are holding off signing the document - completing ratification - until after the Irish vote and it is facing a legal challenge in Germany's constitutional court.

[Sub-X]

EU to approve Irish Lisbon 'guarantees'
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0512/eulisbon.html
12 May 2009

The Government says it wants some legally binding guarantees clarifying aspects of the Treaty before it can hold a second referendum.

It is expected that the guarantees will take the form of three statements regarding ethical issues, such as abortion, tax sovereignty and defence.

The summit will agree that these statements will be attached to the Lisbon Treaty as legally binding Protocols at the earliest opportunity - expected to be the accession treaty for Croatia (or possibly Iceland).

A similar formula was used by Denmark on protocols it secured after initially rejecting the Maastricht Treaty in a 1992 referendum.

In effect the three statements are likely to draw together in an explicit way all the existing 'guarantees' to show that the Lisbon Treaty does not bring about any changes in existing practice in these areas.

Of these three, the shortest is likely to be on tax sovereignty, which is likely to simply state that the Lisbon Treaty does not change the requirement for unanimity in tax matters in the EU.

This would make it explicitly clear that Ireland (and every other state) retains a veto over any proposals relating to taxation, such as a common consolidated corporate tax base.

On ethical issues, the text is expected to state that nothing in the charter of fundamental rights or the justice and home affairs provisions of the Lisbon Treaty will change the workings of the Irish constitution.

This would attempt to address concerns over the Irish constitutional position of the family and the constitutional ban on abortion being overturned (even thought the latter was addressed in the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 already).

The Defence issue is the subject of ongoing negotiations between Fianna Fail and the Green party.

Earlier this year the Green party leader John Gormley floated the suggestion that Ireland should withdraw from the European Defence Agency (which attempts to co-ordinate military research and development and procurement programmes).

This was rejected by Fianna Fail, which strongly opposes any opt outs from any part of the Treaty.

It is believed that a solution may come in the form of a domestic arrangement that may entail more oversight of EU military and defence matters by the Oireachtas.

This may come as part of a package of measures to improve Oireachtas engagement with European affairs, drawing on the recommendations from the Oireachtas sub committee on the Lisbon Treaty.

The issue of every country retaining a commissioner has already been addressed by the European Council conclusions in December, when governments agreed to use the provisions of the Lisbon Treaty to retain a commissioner for every member state.

But this can only happen if the Lisbon treaty is ratified in all states. Otherwise the current treaties will apply, which envisage a cut in the number of commissioners.

The Government considers this the biggest concession it has secured from the other EU states.

There will also be a statement that the EU attaches high importance to workers rights and the protection of workers. This will be declaratory, and will not have any legally binding effect.

Despite this diplomats say it has attracted more questions than any other issue from other governments.

This is because they are cautious to ensure that any language agreed for the Irish will not establish any new or unforeseen rights over and above those already established in EU law or the existing treaties.

The Czech EU presidency is hoping to reach agreement on the Irish texts several days before the EU summit, in the expectation that there will be little discussion of the matter at the summit itself, which takes place on the 18 and 19 of June.

[Sub-X]

Lisbon poll 'insignificant' - SF
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0518/breaking52.htm
18 May 2009

Sinn Féin MEP Mary Lou McDonald has indicated that the Irish Times poll which shows that 52 per cent would vote Yes on the Lisbon Treaty is insignificant, as the debate on the second referendum has not yet started.

Ms McDonald said that no real information has been made public about the changes or the ‘legal guarantees’ that the Government said it has received.

“In the absence of real information, how can people make an informed decision,” she said.

“The debate on Lisbon Two has not even begun yet. I think we all learned last time around that the public mood shifted and changed once people engaged with the issues.”

Ms McDonald said that people had voted No in June last year because of concerns they raised over many matters of substance. She said that a poll being conducted in the absence of the Government addressing those issues was “a rather strange way to proceed.”

She said that the Government now wished to portray a situation where defeat of Lisbon Treaty brought about Ireland’s economic woes.

“The fact is that responsibility for our soaring unemployment and our public finances lies squarely with the Government," she said.

“The fact also is that Lisbon Treaty will not get us out of the economic mess."

"Undoubtedly there will be those who use the economic recession and depression to browbeat those people into supporting a bad deal,” she said.

Roger Cole of the Peace and Neutrality Alliance said that the poll showed there would be a Yes vote to the treaty if there was a legal guarantee on neutrality.

He said the Alliance had been campaigning for such a legal guarantee since 1996 and therefore welcomed the result of the poll.

He said that it would now seek a Protocol to the treaty giving this guarantee and added: “There is no evidence whatsoever that Fianna Fáil has the slightest intention of supporting Irish neutrality.”

[Sub-X]

Call for Ireland to set referendum date
http://euobserver.com/9/28147
19 May 2009

The Irish government has been asked to set a date for its referendum on the Lisbon Treaty at an EU summit in June.

The call by Czech Europe minister Stefan Fule followed a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels on Monday (18 May) where member states agreed to draw up strong legal guarantees to try and persuade Irish voters to vote yes in its second referendum.

Mr Fule said he believed the government should make other member states "aware of the date" during the traditional summer gathering of EU leaders on 18-19 June once the guarantees have been agreed, although he noted that it is "first of all the sovereign decision of the Irish authorities."

The issue of the date did not come up during the actual meeting itself, an EU diplomat said.

The government is currently working with the Czech EU presidency on three legal guarantees that the Lisbon Treaty will not affect Irish sovereignty in tax, defence and ethical issues. There will also be a further declaration on workers' rights, but this will not be legally binding.

Irish officials have indicated the texts will be wrapped up in the week before the June summit and say they will start bilateral meetings with EU partners next week on the final wording of the guarantees.

So far, Dublin has refused to be drawn on a date until the guarantees are finalised, despite some impatience in some EU circles.

It is likely to ask Irish voters to go the polls on the Lisbon question around the beginning of October.

Although the topic is of great interest in Brussels, the Irish government has been too preoccupied with dealing with the fall-out from the global economic crisis and what it will mean for the local and European elections on 5 June to do much publicly about the Lisbon Treaty.


Related: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-gets-glimmer-of-hope-in-the--battle-for-lisbon-deal-1743447.html

[Sub-X]

Fears for Lisbon vote prompt delay in EU law
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0520/1224246952554.html
20 May 2009

INHERITANCE: THE EUROPEAN Commission has delayed a proposal to enable the EU-wide recognition of inheritance claims for fear of upsetting Irish voters ahead of a second Lisbon referendum.

The draft legislation is intended to cope with the increasingly common situation whereby EU citizens live in one country with certain inheritance rules, but they own property in other EU states.

It proposes to introduce common rules for member states to follow on which law should be used to judge such cross-border inheritance claims.

If the Government opted in to the measure, it could ultimately enable foreign laws to be implemented in Irish courts, which is a particularly sensitive issue for the legal profession.

“It was felt that the proposal was too sensitive in the lead-up to the referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, which is expected to be held in the autumn. So it was delayed,” one EU diplomat told The Irish Times yesterday.

Senior commission officials, including secretary general Catherine Day, are understood to have pulled the proposal in the spring.

The commission’s 2009 work programme initially proposed that the draft law would be published in March before being sent to the Council of Ministers for debate.

The decision to delay the proposal follows a similar move last year to quietly drop the commission’s controversial proposal to harmonise the corporate tax base in the EU.

This plan was seized on by No campaigners during the first Lisbon referendum and portrayed as a key threat to Ireland’s tax sovereignty even though the Government could choose to opt out of it.

The proposal on recognition of inheritance claims is controversial because it relates to family law, another area where Ireland is seeking specific guarantees related to the treaty.

The European Voice said the draft law could potentially have enabled relatives to “claw back” property or items given away by the deceased during their lifetime – a mechanism allowed under many EU states’ succession laws, but precluded by Irish and UK law.

According to commission estimates, the proposed legislation would affect about 450,000 successions every year.

Rules on which national law should apply in cross-border succession cases vary: some EU states follow the principle that the law should be determined by the nationality of the deceased, while others apply the law of the state where the deceased lived.

A Government spokeswoman said last night the Government had nothing to do with the commission’s decision to withdraw the proposal.

A commission spokesman also denied that the delay was due to the Irish referendum.

However, several EU diplomats confirmed the story, with one noting that everyone was focused on ensuring that potential land mines were avoided in the run-up to the autumn referendum, which will decide the fate of the treaty.

[Sub-X]

Lisbon legislation may be ready before recess
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0520/1224246952951.html
20 May 2009

THE LEGISLATION paving the way for a second Lisbon Treaty referendum could be available before the Dáil’s summer recess, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said.

“I cannot anticipate whether the legal guarantees that are being worked on will provide us with the outcome we desire based on the December European Council conclusions,” he said.

“However, if we get those, and if they are what are required, then of course that enables us to go to the people with a new package based on that detailed work being conducted and a decision of the European Council being made at the June meeting.”

Mr Cowen recalled that there was an agreement at the December meeting that, if the treaty came into force, all member states would retain a commissioner. It was also agreed that other concerns of the Irish people would be addressed satisfactorily, including appropriate legal guarantees. Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said Ireland had been bad-mouthed around Europe because of the last referendum result. Boo hoo 

“I hope the treaty is approved at the next referendum,” he added.

Mr Cowen said they had to approach the matter step-by-step, and it would not be appropriate to give an indication of detailed work in advance of it being completed.

Asked by Labour’s Joan Burton about the proposal to introduce legislation on blasphemy, Mr Cowen said it was a question of dealing with the issue in the interests of proceeding with the Defamation Bill while respecting the Constitution’s provisions on freedom of expression.

He said that Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern had been misrepresented as being motivated by other reasons. The Government was discussing the matter with the EU legal services and hoped to reach a conclusion by next month, he said.

[Freeski]

So I guess they're going to use the summer to brainwash the masses into believing that all of Europe will hate them if they reject the NWO?

[menace]

The bad mouthing along should be anothe to keep the Irish people from wanting to do any thing with the E.U.

[Sub-X]

Yes we are terrible,worse than the Nazi's and we eat our own children too 

I am sorry to say but this time round its a foregone conclusion,I have been shocked and amazed that some of the attitudes of some people asking who we think we are holding up the ratification of this treaty,how soon some people forget,we fought for years for independence from one empire to just hand it back to another.

How dare we indeed   

[Freeski]

And our enemy has an unlimited budget...