HR 2421 WILL GIVE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMPLETE CONTROL OF LAND, WATER & PEOPLE!!!

Author Topic: HR 2421 WILL GIVE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMPLETE CONTROL OF LAND, WATER & PEOPLE!!!  (Read 7821 times)

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Offline Optimus

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If this passes we will lose all our rights to private property!!! Will put the federal government in complete control of water, public and private land use!!!!

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.2421:


H.R. 2421: A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing
http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?81c1f71a-09ec-4289-ab53-40a9493e56b0
By Linda Runbeck, 2/6/2008 9:25:26 AM

Property owners should not underestimate the vast “takings” that would occur if a bill pending in Congress is enacted. The bill, called the Clean Water Restoration Act (H.R. 2421), authored by Rep. James Oberstar, is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Under the guise of clean water, the bill gives unlimited authority to the federal government to control land, water and people. The bill would invalidate two recent decisions by U.S. Supreme Court that reined in federal regulators at the EPA and Corps of Engineers for their unfair treatment of landowners under the Clean Water Act of 1972.

For the first time ever, if the bill passes, the federal government would control not only ditches, ponds, prairie potholes, and wetlands, but also all man-made water impoundments, and even areas that are mostly dry land.

For the first time ever, the feds would gain authority over all “activities affecting these waters”, which, due to the ambiguity of the language, means whatever activities they choose to interfere with.

The bill comes complete with criminal penalties! Our federal government would be sending people to prison for moving clean gravel (termed a “pollutant”) from one part of their property to another. That was actually occurring under the Corps’ established guidelines until the Supreme Court struck them down in 2006—yet that’s exactly what Oberstar wants to restore.

If the bill is enacted, estimates are that 30 percent of current agricultural cropland would be eliminated. Outdoor recreation lovers would be wise to sell their snowmobiles and ATVs because the restrictions will apply to private land as well as public lands. Costs and delays in securing federal permits will impede a host of economic activities and infrastructure projects such as real estate development, electric transmission, mining and energy development, solid waste disposal, and road-building, to name a few.

Oberstar insists that his bill “restores” the original intent of Congress, “does not expand federal authority” and clarifies the current “regulatory morass.”. That is most deceiving.

In fact, federal law previously gave jurisdiction only over “navigable” waters, a clear limitation of federal authority. This bill also regulates “activities” never before regulated under the Clean Water Act. Such undefined terminology as “activities” and “affecting” will result in extraordinary chaos, confusion and uncertainty with only the courts to sort it out.

If the American people truly desire nationwide federal land use control and protection for wet land (notice the two words), then Congress should do it the right way. It should pass explicit legislation to do just that instead of sneaking in a massive change under the radar in the name of clean water as Oberstar is trying to do. The way to begin is by defeating H.R. 2421, an ill-conceived and shocking piece of federal legislation.

Linda Runbeck, president of the American Property Coalition, is a former MN state senator.

Also check out this!!

Congress Moves To Seize
Control Of All US Water
From Bathtubs To Baptismal Fonts, Congress Moves
To Give the Corps of Engineers Control Of All U.S. Waters
Land Rights Network
American Land Rights Association

http://www.rense.com/general80/cpn.htm
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
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Offline Optimus

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Re: HR 2421 IS A HUGE WATER AND LAND GRAB!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 01:37:31 AM »
Diverse Groups Protest Federal 'Water Grab' Bill
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22615

A diverse group of grassroots organizations and business and civic groups has come together to oppose the proposed Federal Clean Water Restoration Act, which many call the Federal Water Grab Bill.

The bill would strip state oversight of minor waterways and for the first time give federal bureaucrats control over millions of acres of drainage ditches, seasonal ponds, and small waterways that have no significant impact on larger bodies of water.


Nationwide Opposition

Opposition to the federal proposal was expressed on December 5 when members of Congress, state legislators, the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, Property Rights Alliance, Partnership for America, and Americans for American Energy joined the National Farm Bureau Federation, American Property Coalition, and Western Business Roundtable on the steps of the Longworth House Office Building in Washington, DC.

Strong opposition also has been expressed outside of Washington in town meetings, state capitols, and newspaper editorials across the country.

"The scope of this legislation is breathtaking," said Larry Wooten, president of the North Carolina Farm Bureau. "It will raise costs for farmers and homeowners while also burdening state and local governments."


Huge Power Shift

"By eliminating one word--navigable--and replacing it with the term 'waters of the United States,' the legislation would give the federal government authority over anything that is wet, as well as any activity on land that could affect water," explained the North Carolina Coalition for Clean Water in a December 18 news release.

"That term has always been used to signal a balance between federal and state authority," noted Don Parrish, senior director of regulatory relations for the American Farm Bureau Federation (AFBF).

"When the word 'navigable' is taken out, [it makes] everything federal water--without regard to volume and flow. That means gutters, ditches, seasonal wet spots, even groundwater. That's a very big deal," Parrish said.


Unprecedented Federal Power

Even supporters of the proposed legislation acknowledge it is a monumental expansion of federal power. In an interview with the December 19 Sioux Falls Argus Leader, Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) argued even seasonal puddles in America's farm belt, known as "prairie potholes," would come under federal jurisdiction.

"Most of the ducks that migrate across our skies in the spring and fall are hatched and raised on prairies," Dingell asserted.

"Remove [the puddles] and you remove the ducks," Dingell claimed.


Farmers in Crosshairs

"Farmers and ranchers are especially concerned about the combination of these [changes] to a law that has already proved its effectiveness," countered John Youngberg, vice president of governmental affairs for the Montana Farm Bureau Federation, in the December 15 Twin Falls, Idaho Ag Weekly.

"With these changes," Youngberg said, "ordinary roadside ditches, stock tanks, and ponds would be subject to extensive regulation and permitting. Even low spots in fields farmed for decades would be subject to extensive reviews."

Parrish expressed similar concern. "We're strongly opposed to H.R. 2421. There are at least a half dozen things we find problematic with this bill," he said.

"For the first time ever, federal agencies would gain authority over all 'activities' affecting these waters," said American Property Coalition President Linda Runbeck. "Under the bill's broad definition of water, few activities would not be regulated by EPA or the Corps of Engineers, whether or not they take place in water."
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline Optimus

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Simple Words On Water Policy Carry A Big Stick
http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2007/11/18/news/opinion/opin45.txt
By John Youngberg

Imagine you wanted to change the slope of your lawn slightly, and you learned you first needed to obtain an expensive federal permit because the work would alter the way rainwater runs off. Or say you needed to wait years to build a dock, place a culvert in a driveway ditch or install a grass buffer strip to control erosion.

If those examples make you as a homeowner think the federal government is spending too much time coming up with ways to needlessly complicate your life, then consider the potential of a bill before Congress right now -H.R. 2421, the Clean Water Restoration Act. The title sounds harmless, but if its supporters have their way, federal bureaucrats are liable to visit farms, ranches and, yes, even suburban lawns to gauge how your normal activities are affecting every drop of water that falls on your land.

That may seem like a stretch, but it’s true. H.R. 2421 would enable federal agencies to dole out permits for routine actions by farmers, ranchers and ordinary homeowners because it would expand federal regulation to “all” waters. Just think about that word—all—for a moment. All means absolutely everything.

Montana is a dry state, but during certain spring months, if we’re lucky, there tends to be water running in otherwise dry areas and we suddenly have ditches full of water in our fields, also fondly called prairie potholes. If this legislation passes, those intermittent wet areas would suddenly fall under the jurisdiction of the Clean Water Act.

The heart of the issue goes back to the enactment of the Clean Water Act in 1972. There’s no question our country’s waterways are cleaner now than before this law came into effect. Farmers and ranchers are very supportive of clean water. Our rivers, lakes and streams have benefited, and we are better for it. That very effective law, however, also recognizes that it is not appropriate to regulate all water.

H.R. 2421 would expand the reach of the Clean Water Act dramatically because of the addition of the word “all.” Backers of the bill are showing an alarming lack of tractor-seat common sense. The net effect would hand the federal government the authority to regulate almost anything that comes into contact with water, anywhere in the U.S. That’s significant because water and land use decisions largely have been up to state and local authorities all along; federal departments and agencies traditionally look at water protection from a broader perspective.
 

Now consider two additional words: navigable waters. Those words also carry great meaning. They, too, could affect farmers, ranchers and homeowners in new, important ways.

That’s because H.R. 2421 would delete “navigable waters” from the existing Clean Water Act. This seemingly simple step would further ensure that “all” means “ALL.” That is, all waters and waterways would be subject to federal regulation and oversight, no matter how small or insignificant those waters may appear when looking at them or even stepping over them. For the landowner, this legislation means a lot of hassle, expense and time in court.

Farmers and ranchers are especially concerned about the combination of these edits to a law that has already proved its effectiveness. With these changes, ordinary roadside ditches, stock tanks and ponds would be subject to extensive regulation and permitting. Even low spots in fields farmed for decades would be subject to extensive reviews. An amazing 55 million acres of dry, productive, prior converted cropland would be affected by this additional, unnecessary regulation. And there is nothing in H.R. 2421 to protect homeowners from extensive regulations either. Quite simply, H.R. 2421 is overkill.

The fact is the Clean Water Act is working well as it is. Millions of acres of wetlands are currently protected, and farmers and ranchers are hard at work to ensure our natural resources are around for future generations to enjoy. In fact, plans to restore, improve and protect 3 million acres of wetlands by 2009 are well ahead of schedule, with nearly 2.8 million acres of wetlands restored since the initiative was formed in 2004. That is called cooperative conservation—while H.R. 2421 would strip farmers’ ethic of stewardship to the bone.

In addition, millions of Americans today are drinking cleaner, safer water thanks to the Clean Water Act as originally written, combined with additional regulations already in place at the state and local levels, as well as countless voluntary efforts.

All these positive changes have come about without adding the word “all” and deleting the words “navigable waters” from the current Clean Water Act. They happened because the focus was on getting the most important things right, and that’s what we still need—because when everything’s important, nothing’s important. When it comes to something as important as our water, let’s continue to keep the focus on the truly essential words.

By John Youngberg is vice president of governmental affairs for the Montana Farm Bureau Federation.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline Optimus

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Can you imagine the implications this will have if this shit passes?!

We will have to get federal permits just to be able to mow the lawn or plant a garden!! >:(
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline Optimus

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ACTION ALERT
Clean Water Act Threatens Property Rights

http://capwiz.com/jbs/issues/alert/?alertid=10264721

The Clean Water Restoration Act of 2007 would amend the Federal Water Pollution Control Act to clarify the jurisdiction over the waters in the United States. The bill (H.R. 2421 and S. 1870) states three primary purposes:

    • To reaffirm the original intent of Congress in enacting the Federal Water Pollution Control Act Amendments of 1972 (86 Stat. 816) to restore and maintain the chemical, physical, and biological integrity of the waters of the United States.

    • To clearly define the waters of the United States that are subject to the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (33 U.S.C. 1251 et seq.).

    • To provide protection to the waters of the United States to the fullest extent of the legislative authority of Congress under the Constitution.


The bill erroneously assumes federal authority over all the waters within the United States:

    The term `waters of the United States' means all waters subject to the ebb and flow of the tide, the territorial seas, and all interstate and intrastate waters and their tributaries, including lakes, rivers, streams (including intermittent streams), mudflats, sandflats, wetlands, sloughs, prairie potholes, wet meadows, playa lakes, natural ponds, and all impoundments of the foregoing, to the fullest extent that these waters, or activities affecting these waters, are subject to the legislative power of Congress under the Constitution.'

If passed, the Clean Water Restoration Act of 2007 would threaten the property of an unknown number of people who own land where any "waters of the United States" may flow. Congress should oppose any bill that could place privately-owned property in the jurisdiction of the federal government.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
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Offline pac522

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Can you imagine the implications this will have if this shit passes?!

I've seen it, firsthand living in Kenner, a subburb of New Orleans. The Corps of Engineers can fark up a wetdream.
This country did not achieve greatness with the mindset of "safety first" but rather "live free or die".

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Offline Optimus

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“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline chilicharger665

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Oh great. Here comes "water conservation" so mother earth can live. Al Gore will probably be spouting propaganda about this as well...

Offline Optimus

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WE OWN EVERY DROP OF WATER!
NO USING ANY WATER SOURCES
WITHOUT PERMITS!
FINES WILL BE IMPOSED!






















“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline goulash

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yea  but think of the fluoride   deals  water the next war  500 million  u n world get your chips ready
peace  is war enjoy ..where's the  war  were  always at war ™ ' said harry i do like  it so'

the real cost of  war

Offline Overcast

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Oh, it's a "Clean Water" Act - I'm SURE it will pass..
And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!

Offline KI4BNC

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(PLEASE UNDERSTAND I ONLY POST ON WHAT I HAVE HEARD AND READ)Ok I will try this again(without spellcheck this time-Last night/early this morning I tried to make my first post to this forum,and when I tried to use the spellcheck feature my post went away.)
I am kinda new to this so forgive me if I get off topic,I will get back around to it eventually.
I have only been digging for a short time,but the seeds were planted a long time ago.I think that Willie might be right.When you factor the bills they are trying to pass undercover and riddled with stuff that the media doesn't report on it is kinda unnerving. H.R. 2421,S1959 and hr1955,and (un?)res 21 I feel like the move to a police state is closer at hand than I feared.They could have us by the shorthairs in a matter of days...maybe.I am angered that it takes so long for these things to come to light but that may be my fault for not eating the red pill sooner.I am trying to spoonfeed what I find to my wife who is taking it grudgeingly in small doses,and the people close to me.What bothers me most is the control factor.Is it me or does this pretty much mean it is a done deal?When I read that the situation only has to be a threat I liked to have fell out of my chair.As I said before,maybe it is because I only recently ate the red one.
Also since my last post flew to limbo I would like to ask any moderator to send me a pm or email as I have a question or 2(just trivial stuff really about posting here and my ucp)
I will keep researching and reading and spreading the word(ever so carefully)
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Offline Optimus

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Water Rights Threatened
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/water_rights_126.html

New ‘CleanWater RestorationAct’ gives federal government unfettered control over almost every puddle of water in the United States—including your back yard

LURKING IN BOTH HOUSES of Congress is chilling legislation that would allow federal bureaucrats to enter your yard and order you to enlarge, fill-in or otherwise deal with a puddle, creek, lake or any bit of water.

Consider the language in the Clean Water Restoration Act, which would effectively amend the Clean Water Restoration Act of 2002 by replacing the words “navigable waters’ with “waters of the United States.”

This would give the Army Corps of Engineers jurisdiction over everything from “bathtubs to baptismal fonts,” according to the American Land Rights Association. The association said the act defines waters of the United States “with such breathtaking scope” that federal agencies would be required to regulate every liquid square inch of the country.

This is the exact definition as proposed: “The term ‘waters of the United States’means all waters subject to ebb and flow of the tides, the territorial seas, and all interstate and intrastate waters and their tributaries, including lakes, rivers, streams (including intermittent streams), mud flats, sand flats, wetland, sloughs, prairie potholes, wet meadows, playa lakes [a flat, dried-up area, especially a desert basin], natural ponds and all impoundment of the foregoing, to the fullest extent that these waters are subject to the legislative power of Congress under the Constitution.” (Did they overlook anything?)

The legislation (S 1870) is pending before the Senate Environmental and Pubic Works Committee (phone 202-224-8832) and before the House (HR 2421) Natural Resources Committee (phone 202-225-6065).
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

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Offline Kregener

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FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMPLETE CONTROL OF LAND, WATER & PEOPLE!!!

What part of that is not already true today?
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Offline KI4BNC

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PEOPLE
those that would give up a little liberty to obtain a little security,deserve neither and will lose both.

Offline White Rose Sophie

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Seizing All U.S. Water
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2008, 03:56:56 PM »
Well, isn't this interesting?

http://www.rense.com/general80/cpn.htm

Excerpt:

From Bathtubs To Baptismal Fonts, Congress Moves
To Give the Corps of Engineers Control Of All U.S. Waters
Land Rights Network
American Land Rights Association
2-7-8
 

Issue: Having been slapped down by the U. S. Supreme Court's recent decision that the words "navigable waters" in the Clean Water Act limited federal agencies to regulation of navigable waters only. Democrats and liberal Republicans in Congress are striking back.
 
They are attempting to pass the Clean Water Restoration Act of 2007 (HR2421 and S1870) that would amend the 1972 Clean Water Act and replace the words "navigable waters" with "waters of the United States." Further, it defines "waters of the United States" with such breathtaking scope that federal agencies would be required to regulate use of every square inch of the U.S., both public and private.
 
The proposed definition states: "The term 'waters of the United States' means all waters subject to ebb and flow of the tides, the territorial seas, and all interstate and intrastate waters and their tributaries, including lakes, rivers, streams (including intermittent streams), mudflats, sandflats, wetlands, sloughs, prairie potholes, wet meadows, playa lakes [a flat dried up area, esp. a desert basin.] natural ponds and all impoundment of the foregoing, to the fullest extent that these waters are subject to the legislative power of Congress under the Constitution."

Obviously, those behind this legislation have only contempt for the Constitution, limited government and private property rights. To understand what the framers of the Constitution intended, one need only look to their writings and the writings of those from whom they took wisdom and direction. A few of thousands of quotes follow:
 
Quote 1: "The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the law of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'Thou shalt not covet' and 'Thou shalt not steal' were not commandments from Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free." - John Adams, A Defence of the Constitution of the United States against the Attacks of M. Turgot, 1787.
 
Quote 2: "What a man has honestly acquired is absolutely his own, which he may freely give, but cannot be taken from him without his consent." - Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Circular Letter, 1768.
 
Quote 3: ".'tis not without reason that [man] seeks out, and is willing to join in society with others who are already united, or have a mind to unite for the mutual preservation of their lives, liberties and estates which I call by the name of property." - John Locke, Second Treatise of Government, 1690
 
Quote 4: "The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable." - Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations, 1776
 


The article gives further methods of combatting this by contacting your member of Congress and "BEING ALL OVER THEM" in white-hot fury!   ;D

I apologize if this is elsewhere on the forum, or in an inappropriate place. MODS - pls move if it belongs in a different thread.   ;)