Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?

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donovanalpha

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If you do believe that the Book of Revelations is prophecy from on high then you've got another thing comin', Bubba!

The Book of Revelations is not prophecy but is in fact a business plan crafted by the architects of Free Masonry from way way back.  Revelations has been added and subtracted from the Bible and edited and subverted so many times that it would make your head spin.  The Vatican revamped it right around 500 AD to what it is today and is the "mothership" of the predictive programming that would later be helmed by science fiction propagandists like H.G. Wells to condition us to accept their "plan for humanity.

The Book of Revelations was not written by an apostle.  The Book of Revelations is Blasphemy.  I'm here to tell you, SON!  And there is a passage in there that tries to frighten you into questioning the authority of this so-called prophecy.  Of course there is!  Typical FEAR-MONGERING from the so called "powers that be".  Same rings true today.  Not much has changed in 2000 years.

So here is my announcement to all you Christians that believe in "all this must happen because it is written" nonsense:  WAKE UP!  All this CAN be changed.  Revelations is THEIR vision and they want us to lay down and accept these changes as "ordained" and "irreversible".  Quit being a pawn.  Be a knight against the New World Order and CHECK MATE THESE MUDDER FUDDERS!

Offline Bossgator

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 07:35:17 am »
Umm, those prophecies are from the author (John), that were revealed to him by an angel sent by God, so the story goes.

No question your entitled to have an opinion like anyone else. However, the general rule of thumb here is that we don't pay much attention to posts that are backed by NOTHING but personal opinion. If your going to claim something, your going to get people's attention only by backing up what you say with some kind of research/facts.

My point:

You say..."And there is a passage in there that tries to frighten you into questioning the authority of this so-called prophecy."

Firstly, you reference the most popular book of all time, but not the "passage" itself. Care to tell which one? It would help your accusations. I also want to think that you misspoke, instead of you not knowing proper sentence structure. Read that sentence again. Why in the world would there be a passage that tries to convince the reader via fear to question (believe) what the Book itself is saying? Surely you misspoke!

Second, you say "...to all you Christians...", I think it's safe to say that you don't believe the Bible. Your intitled to your own beliefs. However, if you were to be well read, you would know that Christians are infact on your side! They are just as opposed to the NWO as anyone for the very fact what the Book of Revelations claims will take place.

And finally, you say the author was not an apostle (which is contrary to what most theological experts generally agree John was an apostle, who was exiled on the island of Patmos which is in the Greek isles, and is still called that to this day). What is the basis of your claim? Again, back up what your saying my friend, and you'll have an easier time warning people to stop being a pawn.

Personally, I have my doubts about Christianity, as well as any other religions, but I at least try to educate myself on my beliefs. You'd be better served by doing the same.
In the end, all that's left is the truth! - Bossgator

When in politics and faced with two men who are both evil, do you choose the lesser of those two evils? NO! Execute them both and find someone who is *not* evil.

donovanalpha

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MY INTENT
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 08:17:10 am »
My intent is to engage discourse and stimulate interest in topics that I find worthy of discussion.  To implore me to disclose my full body of research would take up too much of my time and would be counterproductive to this forum.  I am merely putting the idea out there.  I believe it because of what I have learned (in my estimation) to be true.  See for yourself and show me where I am wrong and I will counter or concede to whatever it is you attest to the contrary.

Offline Bossgator

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Re: MY INTENT
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 09:17:07 am »
My suggestion of providing hard evidence is not asking for every little piece you have, but do give people some whenever you can. That only helps the discourse to evolve on a more solid ground. Afterall, our efforts are intended to point people to the facts, and not just our opinions and feelings.
In the end, all that's left is the truth! - Bossgator

When in politics and faced with two men who are both evil, do you choose the lesser of those two evils? NO! Execute them both and find someone who is *not* evil.

Offline The Constitutionalist

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Re: MY INTENT
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 10:21:06 am »
My intent is to engage discourse and stimulate interest in topics that I find worthy of discussion.  To implore me to disclose my full body of research would take up too much of my time and would be counterproductive to this forum.  I am merely putting the idea out there.  I believe it because of what I have learned (in my estimation) to be true.  See for yourself and show me where I am wrong and I will counter or concede to whatever it is you attest to the contrary.

And we should care, why?  I don't see anywhere that anyone is imploring you to do anything, as of yet.  I'm pretty sure that the "letter of intent" section of the forums is a bit further down on the topics list.  Say, ummmm, at the bottom? ::)  It appears that starting a topic such as this one is counterproductive and a waste of OUR time and also using up valuable server resources.

JTCoyoté

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Re: MY INTENT
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 01:36:03 pm »
My intent is to engage discourse and stimulate interest in topics that I find worthy of discussion.  To implore me to disclose my full body of research would take up too much of my time and would be counterproductive to this forum.  I am merely putting the idea out there.  I believe it because of what I have learned (in my estimation) to be true.  See for yourself and show me where I am wrong and I will counter or concede to whatever it is you attest to the contrary.

A disclaimer of sorts, eh... for nothing that has brought to the fore as of yet... So you are asking us to believe whatever you may say later, without a shred of evidence of proof on your part because it would be to voluminous... and then you say you will counter or concede????  Red flags just went up buddy...

--Oldyoti

"Assertions of "conspiracy theory" touted by "conspiracy debunking hounds"... are designed to do nothing more than shout down or squelch honest debate. Within topics of controversy, there may or may not be "shenanigans", which only honest and unfettered discussion can determine." -- J.T. Coyoté


donovanalpha

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Re: MY INTENT
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 08:40:09 pm »
O.K., boys...here is an example of some of the content I am referencing to my ascertains in the POST: "Do you really believe that the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD"

Cutting Through Book 3 by Alan Watt
Esoteric Unveiled and Revelations in
High Masonic Tradition

Michael fought with his Angels, and the Dragon fought with his.
The compilers of Revelations wove the esoteric with the
exoteric, combining Egyptian, Persian and Babylonian
terminology and symbology together. On one side of the 'battle'
we see the 'good angels,' each angel's name ending with 'el,'
the semitic term for the sun. The 'good guys' were really the
summer signs of the Zodiac, the Hebrew names being Micha-el,
Abdi-el, Azra-el etc.. The' bad guys' bore the Egyptian names
for the winter months, their names ending with -on, the Egyptian
name for the sun; the sun in winter bringing signs of impending
evil. Therefore we have Abadd-on, Apolly-on etc..
Taken in context we see a Hebrew interpretation of a 'heavenly'
battle between the Egyptian and Hebrew 'gods,' for the exoteric
explanation. The 'Lord' of the Opposite,' was said to be
domiciled in the sign in opposition of where the sun happened
to be. This' contrary' god was called Beli-el. Baalzebub was
domiciled in Scorpio, which gives the 'kiss' of death to god's sun
every autumn, causing his 'fall.' The esoteric meaning is the
battle of winter against summer. The very word Autumn is
comprised of the Egyptian names Atum, old god of the world
and darkness, matter, and Aten, title of the 'beneficent' sun. Hell
was always said to be in the north, the great abyss referring to
the constellation Draco revolves in an endless serpentine loop.
Draco is one of the latin terms for 'snake.' Drag-on is an
Egyptian term for the north 'pole' where eternal winter was said
to hold his carnival or Circus(circuit}. Helping him were his
'Baals' and 'Ons' Of Chaldea and Egypt.

Revelations in the New Testament of the Christian book is written in the MYSTERY LANGUAGE with an esoteric shell for the masses to follow and argue about. That's why there are so many factions say no, it means this. No I have the answer. What they don't know is it's an esoteric writing coded within there and it has to do with time primarily and there's numbers in there and letters and symbology.

Here is Watt talking with Henrik Palmgren on Red Ice Creations Radio on the subject:

Henrik:  I would be interesting if you would have any takes on that and that is of course the Mayan people and I guess even the Mayan calendar in one sense -- have been curious to know if -- when the Vatican people I guess were going over there actually found some stuff that they themselves actually picked up on relating to the end of time or something like that in regards to picking up something from their religion.  You know they had the Quexacoatl character over there and so forth.  Is there something you can reintroduce -- do you know something about that?

Alan:  I think to be honest the whole Mayan thing is either over done or deliberately put there as a red herring.

Henrik:  Exactly, yes.

Alan:  It's fascinated people the whole thing and no one's deciphered any calendar yet.  That's the bottom line. In fact, they've had that stone for a hundred odd years and there's only some initial science fiction writers who've been asked to write about it as though it were a calendar. So it hasn't been deciphered. Now you have to realize too that like Adam Weishaupt said, "the greatest way to attract people into a movement is to give them a great mystery."

Henrik:  Yes, indeed.

Alan:  And he was remember the founder of one the sects of the Illuminati so we should always take good note of what they say and so they're very good at giving us red herrings down through history to chase which always fascinates us and yet would bring you to the conclusion that they want to bring to or come to which is that there's nothing you can do about something, it's preordained, it's planned and then you go along with it. Now that's the same trick they use with Revelations in the Bible for thousands of years. You can't do anything about it. See it's written in that book. It's going to happen anyway. It's the same trick to make you believe that everything is futile. You just have to go along with things because you can't do anything about it.  This is predictive programming that's understood in the higher mystery schools.

So what are you going to do now?  Accuse me of plagiarism.  I'm not here making money, dude.  I listen to people and read and come up with conclusions based on what I believe to be true.  I didn't expect this place to be an arena to attack those with a common goal.  I am thoroughly disgusted with the treatment I've received here thus far.  Instead of welcoming me and offering constructive criticism you all want to ride your high horses and be divisive. 

JTCoyoté

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Re: MY INTENT
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2007, 09:17:57 pm »
No... you make a general statement pertaining to nothing in particular, but to set a stage for something that we know not... It could be anything... and then you expect agreement in those terms... Your intent is not you... we will welcome you gladly but your intent... well time will show that in any case...

Now this post, is more like it... a little specific substance... I know the material... In any case, I see Revelation as essentially a "corporate prospectus for world domination", written 3 to 5 hundred years after the New testament events... there are those who say it came even later... In any case, you must be tutored in the language of symbolism, or incredibly gifted of insight to truly understand it...

It was placed at the end of "the book" under wide dispute in the early 5th century and was anathematized as virtual heresy at the first Nicene Council in 381AD... but once it was in... it would remain there in the "teachings" easily accessed, to help the vile decedents along in their pursuit... as well as to let "the people" know what the elite were up too... IF... they were savvy enough to figure it out...

Everything is out in the open and always has been... whether or not you go with the duped masses, or if you have been taught to use your own intellect and instincts... as well as following an interest in probing history deeper than the more popularized form which was fashioned and promoted by the powers that be as another "red Herring"...

well... what does your gut say.... End-Game... or do we get to say "Gotcha"?

WELCOME aboard... by the way...  ;D

--Oldyoti

"The attacker must vanquish, the defender has only to prevail." -- Coyoté



 

Offline hyperqube

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 02:45:07 am »
nope, you've got it all wrong.

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 07:52:27 am »
I dont normally jump in on religious arguments, but as to the New Testament being the word of God:

"The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical[1] conference of bishops of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So man organized, picked parts they agreed on, re-wrote some others, all to fit their concensus (mis-spell?), including the divinity of Jesus. I'm not debating Jesus' divinity, only the fact that if God came down from heaven and said "JESUS IS DIVINE!" Their wouldnt have been a disagreement, ie:

"The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation. A third group (now known as homoiousians) tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance."

As far as John the "Revelator" is concerned :

"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed]"

It's everyone's right to believe what they will, but please don't use faith as a counter to every argument.
Interesting factoid about the names of the patriarchs however.

P.S. The last phrases buddy was talking about were these:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Couldnt I just ask for forgiveness after?

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 10:19:47 am »
Regardless of the bible of your choice, my point was that it's incorrect to say everyone agrees that John (revelations) was an apostle. You can go back to the greek or hebrew bible if you like but why stop there? The sumerian/babylonian creation epic, Enuma Elish (literally "in the beginning"), begins with the creation and leads all the way up to the great flood (at least as memory serves) matches the *insert your brand here* Bible almost verbatim, except that it was polytheistic. I see your "word of God" and raise you my "word of Gods" ......Peaces  :)

Offline Kregener

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 10:37:10 am »
Insert Twilight Zone theme music here...

 ::)

Isn't Mother Gaia calling you or something?
Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2007, 10:46:59 am »
Hey Kregener,

If you got a point to make, make it. Don't result to the same tactics as Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity by slinging condescending remarks. People pull the same kind of crap when attacking the Truth Movement and I think you can do better.

Offline Kregener

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2007, 10:54:51 am »
The thread was not started by a Christian as an attack on (insert demonic influence here), it was the other way around.

It almost ALWAYS is.

Go f**king f-i-g-u-r-e...
Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than going to a hospital makes you a doctor.

Stop thinking in terms of left and right and start thinking in terms of right and wrong

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2007, 11:07:12 am »
So either either add to the thread or stay out of it child. My original post was on whether or not the writer of Revelations was John the Apostle. How nice of you to determine that the oldest religion recorded in mankinds history (which was condensed into the Old Testament) worshipped demons.

Offline DCUBED

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 03:44:01 pm »
The book of Revelation was written by a man named John. He is said to write it while being exiled on an island for 25 years. This is when he saw three headed dragons and angels come out of the ocean and speak to him. If I were by myself on an island for 25 years I would start to see crazy shit too. I dont know the truth about the Bible, nor do I claim to know (I dont think anyone knows exactly) But I do think that there are encoded messages within the stories. I used to go to church everyday, but I havent gone for a while now because Im positive that the church isnt telling us the truth. They dont tell us what we're not supposed to know. So no, while I do believe in a Creator or God, I dont think the book of Revelations is a prophecy from God. I think that the Globalist or Illuminati will try to re-create Revelations so that the hard-core Christians will be duped into thinking that Jesus is coming back and will do whatever they are told. I dont care if the ground starts to shake, the sky opens up, and what looks like Jesus is falling from the heavens, I assure you....It's not Jesus. It will just be another Globalist staged event. And I dont doubt it will happen.
“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”  - Arthur Conan Doyle

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Offline hyperqube

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2007, 03:51:07 pm »
the book is a prophecy.  it is religion that that falsely interprets the events of revelation.  for example this thousand year reign of christ on earth.  how many christians believe this?? alot for sure yet it's nowhere in the bible.  it's funny that the jews were looking for an eartlhy kingdom also 2000 years ago and the christians are looking for the exact same thing. doh!

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2007, 05:46:57 pm »
Thank you guys for some stimulating discussions, you raise valid points, none of which actually attack the Christian faith. Although according to Kregener this thread was started by a demonic influence as an attack on Christians. Whereas I see none of these comments attacking Christianity but merely questioning any bible as the word of God. The Jews don't believe Jesus (who was a Jew) was divine, but consider him a prophet of god. The Muslims don't consider Jesus divine but a prophet. Even denying the divinity of Christ does not detract from the Christian faith because everything he said and did is worthy of respect, love and even worship. Though Jesus never said he was God, he did say he was the son of God, which in fact, everyone is the son or daughter of God the creator anyway. Prophecy was never one of the key elements in his teachings, which is why it is right to question revelations. There is probably a good reason Jesus never mentioned it. My point is, even the word of God can be corrupted by the hand of man.

Offline hyperqube

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2007, 06:18:05 pm »
it amazes me that anyone could think that Revelation was some sort of illuminati manifesto.  just whom do you think God is talking about here:

Quote
Revelation 6:15-17  And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


who are the ones building underground bases?? the NWO!

Offline Bossgator

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2007, 10:57:04 pm »
Uh, most Christians do in fact believe in the thousand year reign, and it is in fact in Revelations 20:1-7; the word thousand is said 6 times! A little more research might be in order.

And the Jews await the Messiah's arrival to this day. They don't believe the Messiah has appeared yet.

Funny underground bases are mentioned. Do some reading about the Bahia and their place on Mount Carmel in Haitha Isreal. An underground facility is exactly what they have, but they claim it is because Isreali building codes mandate it, which it does.
In the end, all that's left is the truth! - Bossgator

When in politics and faced with two men who are both evil, do you choose the lesser of those two evils? NO! Execute them both and find someone who is *not* evil.

JTCoyoté

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2007, 11:07:16 pm »
it amazes me that anyone could think that Revelation was some sort of illuminati manifesto.  just whom do you think God is talking about here:


who are the ones building underground bases?? the NWO!

I appreciate your sentiment... and understand exactly what it says and on this level it warns the wicked of their desert if they do not change their heart... however on another level in it's symbolism is says something quite a bit different... Read my second post here carefully...

Remember what Vernon Howell was doing with this book of the Bible?... Got him and a whole bunch of his fellow Davidians burned alive at the hands of the federal police...

Wicked and deceitfully are these rascals... and they have been since day one, make no mistake about it...

--Oldyoti

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Offline hyperqube

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2007, 01:59:29 am »
Quote
A little more research might be in order.

yeah, so that does not at all imply a millenial kingdom on earth, does it?? 

Quote
Revelation 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


doesn't this verse at all imply that this thousand year period is spiritual not earthly.  i mean to get there means for some losing their heads. 

Offline Dogstar2012

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2007, 06:11:37 am »
"Don't go stereo typing God and his people if you don't know how to recognize them...please and thank you."

 Oh I'm sorry, was revelations not in the King James Bible? I didn't know that. I also super apologize to anyone who was insulted by my stereotyping. Was it when I said that there is not 100% agreement on the identity of John who wrote revelations? Everyone is "his people" so please don't let your superiority complex cloud the issue. Unless you sent your $9.99 to heaven to receive your "God's People" diploma and Secret Bible De-coder Ring, then I will gladly concede you're one of his peeps and I'm not.

Offline Bossgator

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 11:39:58 pm »
Not completely sure hyperqube.

I think this thousand years is suppose to be in Heaven, because it sounds as though it begins after the return, and the battle of Meggido where Satan and his angels are defeated, and is cast into the pit. Like your reference, of verse 4, but I don't know if that would be spiritual as we know it. It does say that "...we shall be changed...in the twinkling of an eye...", so in that regard, I guess you could say a spiritual reign.

Those dead that remain, that don't experience the first ressurection seem to be the only ones left for Satan to rule over on earth after the thousand years.
In the end, all that's left is the truth! - Bossgator

When in politics and faced with two men who are both evil, do you choose the lesser of those two evils? NO! Execute them both and find someone who is *not* evil.

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2007, 10:50:28 am »
Umm, those prophecies are from the author (John), that were revealed to him by an angel sent by God, so the story goes.

No question your entitled to have an opinion like anyone else. However, the general rule of thumb here is that we don't pay much attention to posts that are backed by NOTHING but personal opinion. If your going to claim something, your going to get people's attention only by backing up what you say with some kind of research/facts.

My point:

You say..."And there is a passage in there that tries to frighten you into questioning the authority of this so-called prophecy."

Firstly, you reference the most popular book of all time, but not the "passage" itself. Care to tell which one? It would help your accusations. I also want to think that you misspoke, instead of you not knowing proper sentence structure. Read that sentence again. Why in the world would there be a passage that tries to convince the reader via fear to question (believe) what the Book itself is saying? Surely you misspoke!

Second, you say "...to all you Christians...", I think it's safe to say that you don't believe the Bible. Your intitled to your own beliefs. However, if you were to be well read, you would know that Christians are infact on your side! They are just as opposed to the NWO as anyone for the very fact what the Book of Revelations claims will take place.

And finally, you say the author was not an apostle (which is contrary to what most theological experts generally agree John was an apostle, who was exiled on the island of Patmos which is in the Greek isles, and is still called that to this day). What is the basis of your claim? Again, back up what your saying my friend, and you'll have an easier time warning people to stop being a pawn.

Personally, I have my doubts about Christianity, as well as any other religions, but I at least try to educate myself on my beliefs. You'd be better served by doing the same.
:o

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2007, 11:36:28 am »
I believe in Revelation not Revelations.  It is a complete Revelation to us through Jesus Christ.
Yes, I believe that the KJV Bible is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit.  It is by the  Holy Spirit that we understand His words.  Before I read my KJV Bible I ask for the Holy Spirit to open my heart, eyes and mind to His Word.  The more I read it, the more I understand.  If I were to ever recommend a particular Book of the Bible, it would be the Book Of John; for it is shallow enough for a baby to wade in, yet deep enough for an elephant to swim.  You see, the other perverted versions of the Bible, including the New KJV (NKJV) and NIV, Living Bible, etc, are  apostate.  I've noticed that when shopping in supposedly "Christian Book Stores", all the KJV Bilbes are at the back of the store, while all the polluted versions are right there in eyesight!  This is Satan's plan to throw Christians off the path of the Living Word, which is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  The most important aspect of Christian living is to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.  Remember, you and me are the Church.  The Church is not a building with a minister, for those are earthly entities, but "we, You, Me" are the church.  I broke with the camp a long time ago and do Home Bible Study, with my own ministry in helping others directly with my blessings and not through the collection plate in an earthly church building.   I believe we are all sinners saved through His Grace and that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are the Trinity and none other.    My friend, I recommend a great study book called "In Awe Of Thy Word".  It opened my eyes to so many things not  known before. 

Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed, and  a few to be chewed.  So, the KJV Bible, my friend, is a Book to be chewed. 

                      To understand it through and through
                               You must chew it til you do.

If you have $25.00 to spare, why not order "In Awe Of Thy Word by G.A. Riplinger.  It will be a blessing to you.  Some books can be purchased through Amazon, Jack Chick Publishers or as "used" though Amazon.  It will open your eyes and delight your spirit.   You sound as though you're searching, and I hope your Journey with The Word will change your world. 

In Him, Our Lord
Arkansas Farmgirl
Leeann   

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2007, 11:41:53 am »
the book is a prophecy.  it is religion that that falsely interprets the events of revelation.  for example this thousand year reign of christ on earth.  how many christians believe this?? alot for sure yet it's nowhere in the bible.  it's funny that the jews were looking for an eartlhy kingdom also 2000 years ago and the christians are looking for the exact same thing. doh!
:D ;)

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2007, 11:44:02 am »
Umm, those prophecies are from the author (John), that were revealed to him by an angel sent by God, so the story goes.

No question your entitled to have an opinion like anyone else. However, the general rule of thumb here is that we don't pay much attention to posts that are backed by NOTHING but personal opinion. If your going to claim something, your going to get people's attention only by backing up what you say with some kind of research/facts.

My point:

You say..."And there is a passage in there that tries to frighten you into questioning the authority of this so-called prophecy."

Firstly, you reference the most popular book of all time, but not the "passage" itself. Care to tell which one? It would help your accusations. I also want to think that you misspoke, instead of you not knowing proper sentence structure. Read that sentence again. Why in the world would there be a passage that tries to convince the reader via fear to question (believe) what the Book itself is saying? Surely you misspoke!

Second, you say "...to all you Christians...", I think it's safe to say that you don't believe the Bible. Your intitled to your own beliefs. However, if you were to be well read, you would know that Christians are infact on your side! They are just as opposed to the NWO as anyone for the very fact what the Book of Revelations claims will take place.

And finally, you say the author was not an apostle (which is contrary to what most theological experts generally agree John was an apostle, who was exiled on the island of Patmos which is in the Greek isles, and is still called that to this day). What is the basis of your claim? Again, back up what your saying my friend, and you'll have an easier time warning people to stop being a pawn.

Personally, I have my doubts about Christianity, as well as any other religions, but I at least try to educate myself on my beliefs. You'd be better served by doing the same.
:)

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2007, 11:57:16 am »
Dear Mr. Dogsta:  You sound like a hurting and possibly angry young man.  Anger and confusion will only get in your way of "praying that the Holy Spirit" will enable you to understand His, our Lord Jesus Christ, also called the Word.

One, if truly searching for truth, must come with an open mind,heart and soul and be at
peace with the Lord.  Perhaps you may want to read my reply to the Revelation topic.
I believe you will make a wonderful searcher and student of the Word, once your anger
is simmered down.  There seems to be a fire inside of you and a hurting; and for that
I truly am sorry for you.  Everyday, at 10 am, just know that the Lord and myself will be
in dialogue for your behalf. These are turbulent times with unseen evil forces trying to
destroy us.  Believe it or not, the reason illiteracy is a problem in schools, is a plan of Satan to dumb people down, so they can't understand His Word.  Do you feel unloved or are you just
angry at everything in general?  Are you happy?  Praying and staying for you, Mr. Dogsta.
God's speed for your spiritual healing.   In the Rock Of All Ages, there is a "cleft" just for you
so hang on.

In Christ and no other,

Arkansas Farmgirl Leeann       

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2007, 12:09:51 pm »
Thank you guys for some stimulating discussions, you raise valid points, none of which actually attack the Christian faith. Although according to Kregener this thread was started by a demonic influence as an attack on Christians. Whereas I see none of these comments attacking Christianity but merely questioning any bible as the word of God. The Jews don't believe Jesus (who was a Jew) was divine, but consider him a prophet of god. The Muslims don't consider Jesus divine but a prophet. Even denying the divinity of Christ does not detract from the Christian faith because everything he said and did is worthy of respect, love and even worship. Though Jesus never said he was God, he did say he was the son of God, which in fact, everyone is the son or daughter of God the creator anyway. Prophecy was never one of the key elements in his teachings, which is why it is right to question revelations. There is probably a good reason Jesus never mentioned it. My point is, even the word of God can be corrupted by the hand of man.

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2007, 12:13:01 pm »
I dont normally jump in on religious arguments, but as to the New Testament being the word of God:

"The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical[1] conference of bishops of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So man organized, picked parts they agreed on, re-wrote some others, all to fit their concensus (mis-spell?), including the divinity of Jesus. I'm not debating Jesus' divinity, only the fact that if God came down from heaven and said "JESUS IS DIVINE!" Their wouldnt have been a disagreement, ie:

"The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation. A third group (now known as homoiousians) tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance."

As far as John the "Revelator" is concerned :

"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed]"

It's everyone's right to believe what they will, but please don't use faith as a counter to every argument.
Interesting factoid about the names of the patriarchs however.

P.S. The last phrases buddy was talking about were these:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Couldnt I just ask for forgiveness after?

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 12:14:44 pm »
I dont normally jump in on religious arguments, but as to the New Testament being the word of God:

"The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical[1] conference of bishops of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So man organized, picked parts they agreed on, re-wrote some others, all to fit their concensus (mis-spell?), including the divinity of Jesus. I'm not debating Jesus' divinity, only the fact that if God came down from heaven and said "JESUS IS DIVINE!" Their wouldnt have been a disagreement, ie:

"The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation. A third group (now known as homoiousians) tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance."

As far as John the "Revelator" is concerned :

"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed]"

It's everyone's right to believe what they will, but please don't use faith as a counter to every argument.
Interesting factoid about the names of the patriarchs however.

P.S. The last phrases buddy was talking about were these:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Couldnt I just ask for forgiveness after?

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2007, 12:16:37 pm »
I dont normally jump in on religious arguments, but as to the New Testament being the word of God:

"The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical[1] conference of bishops of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So man organized, picked parts they agreed on, re-wrote some others, all to fit their concensus (mis-spell?), including the divinity of Jesus. I'm not debating Jesus' divinity, only the fact that if God came down from heaven and said "JESUS IS DIVINE!" Their wouldnt have been a disagreement, ie:

"The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation. A third group (now known as homoiousians) tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance."

As far as John the "Revelator" is concerned :

"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed]"

It's everyone's right to believe what they will, but please don't use faith as a counter to every argument.
Interesting factoid about the names of the patriarchs however.

P.S. The last phrases buddy was talking about were these:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Couldnt I just ask for forgiveness after?

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2007, 12:21:27 pm »
Apologies to Mr. Dogsta:  OOps! I messed up.  My message was actually for Mr. Hyperqube.
My eye-glasses for reading have failed me.  Please forgive me.  God Bless !  Arkansas Farmgirl
Hope you aren't "put out" with me. 


I  APOLOGIZE  TO  MR.  DOGSTA!!! 

Offline arkansas farmergirl

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2007, 12:33:07 pm »
the book is a prophecy.  it is religion that that falsely interprets the events of revelation.  for example this thousand year reign of christ on earth.  how many christians believe this?? alot for sure yet it's nowhere in the bible.  it's funny that the jews were looking for an eartlhy kingdom also 2000 years ago and the christians are looking for the exact same thing. doh!

Offline dixiechickie

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2007, 09:53:13 am »
If you do believe that the Book of Revelations is prophecy from on high then you've got another thing comin', Bubba!

The Book of Revelations is not prophecy but is in fact a business plan crafted by the architects of Free Masonry from way way back.  Revelations has been added and subtracted from the Bible and edited and subverted so many times that it would make your head spin.  The Vatican revamped it right around 500 AD to what it is today and is the "mothership" of the predictive programming that would later be helmed by science fiction propagandists like H.G. Wells to condition us to accept their "plan for humanity.

The Book of Revelations was not written by an apostle.  The Book of Revelations is Blasphemy.  I'm here to tell you, SON!  And there is a passage in there that tries to frighten you into questioning the authority of this so-called prophecy.  Of course there is!  Typical FEAR-MONGERING from the so called "powers that be".  Same rings true today.  Not much has changed in 2000 years.

So here is my announcement to all you Christians that believe in "all this must happen because it is written" nonsense:  WAKE UP!  All this CAN be changed.  Revelations is THEIR vision and they want us to lay down and accept these changes as "ordained" and "irreversible".  Quit being a pawn.  Be a knight against the New World Order and CHECK MATE THESE MUDDER FUDDERS!

As I just posted on another thread, Christianity is based on the truth. The FACT is, we have more than 5,000 fragments of the NT!!! No, despite what the Danci Con & others sell, these allegations have been thoroughly discredited time & time again. It has been long accepted by scholars that the book of Revelation was written (like ALL of the Christian canon) in the first century. Archeological discoveries has proven the "bible has been changed"  charge untrue. People putting forth this nonsense are using badly outdated sources. Please do at least familiarize yourself with actual facts. A really good "scholarly" site to learn about early Christianity is

Early Christian Writings
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

Offline other one

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2007, 10:09:00 am »
yeah, so that does not at all imply a millenial kingdom on earth, does it?? 


doesn't this verse at all imply that this thousand year period is spiritual not earthly.  i mean to get there means for some losing their heads. 

I think it speaks more of life after death....   for if you read in chapter 19, you will find that Jesus has just come down to earth and destroyed the evil people's power and locked Satan/Lucifer up for a thousand years.

Those who would not follow the beast and were killed will return with Christ and be part of the thousand year reign here on planet earth.   Satan will later be let out and once again deceive the antions and be destroyed while converging on the city of Jerusalem.
I think this should be considered the thousand year reign....   and not spiritually.

Offline dixiechickie

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2007, 11:24:10 am »
I dont normally jump in on religious arguments, but as to the New Testament being the word of God:

"The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day Iznik in Turkey), convoked by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical[1] conference of bishops of the early Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent 'general (ecumenical) councils of Bishops' (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy— the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom."

So man organized, picked parts they agreed on, re-wrote some others, all to fit their concensus (mis-spell?), including the divinity of Jesus. I'm not debating Jesus' divinity, only the fact that if God came down from heaven and said "JESUS IS DIVINE!" Their wouldnt have been a disagreement, ie:

"The Arian controversy was a Christological dispute that began in Alexandria between the followers of Arius (the Arians) and the followers of St. Alexander of Alexandria (now known as homoousians). Alexander and his followers believed that the Son was of the same substance as the Father, co-eternal with him. The Arians believed that they were different and that the Son, though he may be the most perfect of creations, was only a creation. A third group (now known as homoiousians) tried to make a compromise position, saying that the Father and the Son were of similar substance."

As far as John the "Revelator" is concerned :

"Although the traditional view still has many adherents, some modern scholars[citation needed] believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos refer to three separate individuals. Certain lines of evidence suggest that John of Patmos wrote only Revelation, not the Gospel of John nor the Epistles of John. For one, the author of Revelation identifies himself as "John" several times, but the author of the Gospel of John never identifies himself directly. While both works liken Jesus to a lamb, they consistently use different words for lamb when referring to him — the Gospel uses amnos, Revelation uses arnion.[9] Lastly, the Gospel is written in nearly flawless Greek, but Revelation contains grammatical errors and stylistic abnormalities which indicate its author may not have been as familiar with the Greek language as the Gospel's author.[citation needed]"

It's everyone's right to believe what they will, but please don't use faith as a counter to every argument.
Interesting factoid about the names of the patriarchs however.

P.S. The last phrases buddy was talking about were these:

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Couldnt I just ask for forgiveness after?

Orthodox Christianity is the same now as it was in the beginning. Constatine did not have anything to do with Christian doctrine or theology. The council of Nicea (like ALL of the councils btw) was in response to heresy, in this case the arian heresy.

The Council of Nicea
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/nicea.htm

And this site debunks alot of the nonsense spread on the internet regarding this issue

The Council of Nicaea (Nicea) and the Bible
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html

Did you qoute from a wikipedia article? There are plenty of scholarly sites/articles online that deal with these things. I am amazed that this type of misinformation continues when it's been so thoroughly discredited.

Offline hyperqube

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2007, 05:10:46 pm »
"discredited" is your opinion.  you keep saying that like, um, i'm gonna start believing it.  The Gospel as taught by Jesus could never have become the Roman state religion. sorry

Offline dixiechickie

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Re: Do you really believe the Book of Revelations is a prophecy from GOD?
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2007, 10:21:54 am »
"discredited" is your opinion.  you keep saying that like, um, i'm gonna start believing it.  The Gospel as taught by Jesus could never have become the Roman state religion. sorry

I really don't care what you believe. There is PROOF & EVIDENCE that it is so. Christianity is based on historical FACTS. It is the most well documented movement in history. Archeological evidence has only REINFORCED the FACT that Christian doctrine & theology HAS NOT been "corrupted".

All of the books of the cannonized NT were complete just a few years after the crucifiction. We still  have ALL of the writings of the early church fathers (written during the great persecution) as well  as the books themselves as PROOF. The books of the NT were approved writings in the early church and were in wide distribution HUNDREDS of years BEFORE Constatine  had his dream!!!

Please at least educate yourself with basic facts:
www.earlychristianwritings.com