IRS Told to Target groups with “tea party” or “patriot” Names in 2012 Election?

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Offline Sasha

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1883: Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746. is an interesting case ruling on the subject that says very explicity that we can't be taxed on labor, that, "it is the foundation of all other property so it is the most sacred and inviolable."
http://www.voluntarytax.info/Taxes_on_labor.htm

Being no expert on tax law, I was playing toward the history of the Fed Res and the IRS itself, so the article is somewhat relevant.  Perhaps the problem is with the differentiation of direct vs indirect taxation:

After the 1895 Pollock ruling (essentially, that taxes on income from property should be treated as direct taxes), this provision made it difficult for Congress to impose a national income tax that applied to all forms of income until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913. After the Sixteenth Amendment, no Federal income taxes are required to be apportioned, regardless of whether they are direct taxes (taxes on income from property) or indirect taxes (all other income taxes). - wiki
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Offline MonkeyPuppet

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1883: Butchers' Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746. is an interesting case ruling on the subject that says very explicity that we can't be taxed on labor, that, "it is the foundation of all other property so it is the most sacred and inviolable."
http://www.voluntarytax.info/Taxes_on_labor.htm

Being no expert on tax law, I was playing toward the history of the Fed Res and the IRS itself, so the article is somewhat relevant.  Perhaps the problem is with the differentiation of direct vs indirect taxation:

After the 1895 Pollock ruling (essentially, that taxes on income from property should be treated as direct taxes), this provision made it difficult for Congress to impose a national income tax that applied to all forms of income until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913. After the Sixteenth Amendment, no Federal income taxes are required to be apportioned, regardless of whether they are direct taxes (taxes on income from property) or indirect taxes (all other income taxes). - wiki


That last sentence makes no sense whatsoever... not when we consider the words of the Supreme Court post-16th.

Brushaber v. Union Pacific
"Indeed, in the light of the history which we have given and of the decision in the Pollock Case, and the ground upon which the ruling in that case was based, there is no escape from the conclusion that the Amendment was drawn for the purpose of doing away for the future with the principle upon which the Pollock Case was decided; that is, of determining whether a tax on income was direct not by a consideration of the burden placed on the taxed income upon which it directly operated, but by taking into view the burden which resulted on the property from which the income was derived, since in express terms the Amendment provides that income taxes, from whatever source the income may be derived, shall not be subject to the regulation of apportionment. From this in substance it indisputably arises, first, that all the contentions which we have previously noticed concerning the assumed limitations to be implied from the language of the Amendment as to the nature and character of the income taxes which it authorizes find no support in the text and are in irreconcilable conflict with the very purpose which the Amendment was adopted to accomplish

Second, that the contention that the Amendment treats a tax on income as a direct tax although it is relieved from apportionment and is necessarily therefore not subject to the rule of uniformity as such rule only applies to taxes which are not direct, thus destroying the two great classifications which have been recognized and enforced from the beginning, is also wholly without foundation since the command of the Amendment that all income taxes shall not be subject to apportionment by a consideration of the sources from which the taxed income may be derived forbids the application to such taxes of the rule applied in the Pollock Case by which alone such taxes were removed from the great class of excises, duties, and imposts subject to the rule of uniformity, and were placed under the other or direct class. This must be unless it can be said that although the Constitution, as a result of the Amendment, in express terms excludes the criterion of source of income, that criterion yet remains for the purpose of destroying the classifications of the Constitution by taking an excise out of the class to which it belongs and transferring it to a class in which it cannot be placed consistently with the requirements of the Constitution.

Indeed, from another point of view, the Amendment demonstrates that no such purpose was intended, and on the contrary shows that it was drawn with the object of maintaining the limitations of the Constitution and harmonizing their operation.[/color]
"

Brushaber is referred to time and again by other subsequent cases and remains THE landmark case clarifying the narrow purpose of the 16th Amendment.

Income Tax: Shattering The Myths
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Offline No2NWO

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White House counsel kept IRS probe results from Obama

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/us-usa-irs-idUSBRE94F10Y20130521

More lies please!!!  ::)
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Offline pac522

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It's not like the IRS was created when then Federal Reserve Act came into being.  Even if it suffered a massive slap on the wrist, the revenue laws of the United States will still need to be enforced by some agency. 

I understand it wasn't created with the Federal Reserve Act but the idea was hatched with that Act. What I'm saying is even though not a single cent of income tax collected goes to paying down the debt, you stop printing money from debt and there is no reason to have the personal income tax. The charade is over. As far as the legitimate revenue laws, well that's not even up for debate.
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Offline MonkeyPuppet

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I understand it wasn't created with the Federal Reserve Act but the idea was hatched with that Act.


This is pure supposition with no foundation.  The Bureau of Internal Revenue was created in 1862.  It didn't get its name changed to IRS until 1953.



What I'm saying is even though not a single cent of income tax collected goes to paying down the debt, you stop printing money from debt and there is no reason to have the personal income tax.


That's the catch, though... the income tax, as written, doesn't even apply to the average American living and working within the 50 states of the union.  The only evidence of liability is created solely by third party information return filings regardless of actual fact.  The IRS is not imposing federal revenue laws upon people arbitrarily.  They have those W2's and 1099's to "prove" you are among those made liable... they just don't care if the implication is accurate.



The charade is over. As far as the legitimate revenue laws, well that's not even up for debate.


They should be since so many claim they are illegitimate with virtually zero understanding of them, the concept of jurisdiction and that of statutory construction, regulations, Treasury Decisions and case law.  I'm simply arguing the fact that, as written, the internal revenue laws are 100% Constitutional.  As for scrutiny of those who foolishly believe their are required to register or file with the IRS for some special status just to exist... if the IRS, by order of whomever, plays favorites, I don't really care.

I'm simply trying to point out that while one may be used to bolster the other, it doesn't mean that if one goes down, the other fails.  If the FED were abolished today, the American People would still believe they owe a portion of their earnings to the federal government.  If the IRS were abolished today, the American People would still believe they owe a portion of their earnings to the federal government.  That false belief would provide for any replacement of either to continue the lie unabated.

So yeah, the debate is always far removed from the importance of whether or not the federal income tax actually applies to the majority of Americans and is almost always misdirected to just how much they're willing to allow criminals to steal from them... the criminals in this case being their payers who fraudulently send erroneous information returns purporting something that is untrue.

But, by all means, continue blaming everyone but those responsible.

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Offline TahoeBlue

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So this does seem to be cannon fodder to turn attention away from
Benghazi


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_IRS_POLITICAL_GROUPS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-05-21-11-18-04
...
Asked by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, whether he owed conservative groups an apology, Shulman said, "I'm certainly not personally responsible for creating a list that had inappropriate criteria on it."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/us-usa-irs-idUSBRE94F10Y20130521
IRS officials tell Congress they were unaware of targeting
By John Whitesides and Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON | Tue May 21, 2013 11:48am EDT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Top Internal Revenue Service officials told Congress on Tuesday they were unaware of the agency's targeting of conservative groups for extra tax scrutiny until recently and were not deliberately misleading lawmakers last year when they did not reveal the practice.

Exasperated senators questioned the truthfulness of former IRS Commissioner Douglas Shulman, who led the agency from 2008 to 2012, and outgoing acting IRS chief Steven Miller. Republican Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah accused IRS leaders of a "lie by omission
...

"The full set of facts around these circumstances came out last week ... until that point I did not have a full set of facts," Shulman said on Tuesday.

"What I knew sometime in the spring of 2012 was that there was a list that was being used. I knew that the word "Tea Party" was on the list. I didn't know what other words were on the list," he said.

A Treasury Department watchdog has said he informed Shulman about an investigation into the matter in May 2012, but assumed IRS officials would have told Shulman about potential targeting problems before that.

Lawmakers said they were disappointed in the answers, but Miller and Shulman denied they had hidden the truth from Congress. "I did not lie, sir," Miller told Hatch
...

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/05/irs-scandal-doug-shulman-91665.html
Former IRS chief Doug Shulman 'dismayed' at targeting
By LAUREN FRENCH | 5/21/13 11:07 AM EDT  Updated: 5/21/13 12:23 PM EDT   

Former IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman told a Senate panel he was “dismayed” and “saddened” after reading an inspector general report last week that concluded agency employees wrongly targeted conservative groups seeking a tax exemption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Shulman

Douglas H. Shulman (born 1967) was the U.S. Commissioner of Internal Revenue. His appointment by then-president George W. Bush was confirmed by the full U.S. Senate on March 14, 2008[1] and he was sworn in on March 24, 2008.[2] He formerly served as vice chairman of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) (successor to NASD) and sat on the board at the Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTCC) .[3]
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Offline TahoeBlue

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Protected IRS joker to take the fifth

Right. Yeah. A buffer. The family had a lot of buffers. 

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-top-irs-official-fifth-amendment-20130521,0,6645565.story
Top IRS official will invoke 5th Amendment
By Richard Simon and Joseph Tanfani
May 21, 2013, 1:08 p.m.

WASHINGTON – A top IRS official in the division that reviews nonprofit groups will invoke the Fifth Amendment and refuse to answer questions before a House committee investigating the agency’s improper screening of conservative nonprofit groups.


Lois Lerner, the head of the exempt organizations division of the IRS, won’t answer questions about what she knew about the improper screening – or why she didn’t reveal it to Congress, according to a letter from her defense lawyer, William W. Taylor 3rd.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline No2NWO

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Offline larsonstdoc

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Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #88 on: May 22, 2013, 10:08:03 AM »
http://www.c-span.org/

  It's best to watch these hearings with A FIFTH OF WHISKEY IN FRONT OF YOU.
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Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #89 on: May 22, 2013, 10:17:49 AM »


  I HAVE NOT DONE ANYTHING WRONG.  I HAVE NOT BROKEN ANY LAWS.
                                                             ---Lois Lerner
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #90 on: May 22, 2013, 10:21:48 AM »

  10:18 AM Eastern

  Issa orders Lerner and her lawyers out of the hearing.
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Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2013, 10:24:25 AM »


  10:20 eastern

  Issa dismisses Lerner and her lawyers the 2nd time.  They leave.
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Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #92 on: May 22, 2013, 10:29:33 AM »


  The hearing continues without Lerner.
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Offline jerryweaver

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #93 on: May 22, 2013, 10:33:41 AM »
http://www.c-span.org/

  It's best to watch these hearings with A FIFTH OF WHISKEY IN FRONT OF YOU.

That is funny!! Is that invoking the FIFTH?  I'm working on giving up the chemical crutch. Apparently the cure is compartmentalization ( self lobotomy ) .

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2013, 10:42:29 AM »
That is funny!! Is that invoking the FIFTH?  I'm working on giving up the chemical crutch. Apparently the cure is compartmentalization ( self lobotomy ) .

  LOL.  I tell you what.  If you or I were facing an audit, the IRS wouldn't let us plead the 5th.  A guy like Dean Martin might grab a 5th.
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Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2013, 10:52:19 AM »
Comments about Lerner from another forum....


She should have been made to sit there and answer every single question with the 5th!


Well, we need to waterboard her now. How else will we find out the truth.


CRIMINAL SOCIOPATH

Makes you want to quit paying your taxes to choke hold the "Central Government" and starve them out of existence, doesn't it?


I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2013, 10:57:21 AM »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/irs-official-lois-lerner-i-have-not-done-anything-wrong_728791.html

  videos at the link.....

            IRS Official Lois Lerner: 'I Have Not Done Anything Wrong'
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Offline jofortruth

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2013, 11:06:28 AM »
If she is innocent, why not tell the truth? If I was accused of something I was innocent of, I would want to clear my name.

She may have just implicated herself by taking the plea! However, I am sure it's her high paid lawyer that told her to do that! This is also a way to keep the scandal silent in general, IMO! She may flub up and tell on others by mistake during her testimony. Can't risk that!   ::)

Hiding the truth once again! Makes her look guilty doesn't it? or at least she knew something!

A typical move used by the elite and their minions, and those who are guilty! Funny how they trash the Constitution on all other points, but love the 5th plea!

 ::)
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Offline jerryweaver

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2013, 11:13:04 AM »
Was that " Oh this is horrible how can we fix it and move on with the raping of the productive class by the parasites in central banking?"

Offline lee51

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2013, 11:44:23 AM »
so next time when I'm audited, I can plead the fifth--after the example of Lerner?

but Rep. Gowdy was sure angry at what she did--25 second video of his thoughts on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFxXcBVIBjk

Offline jerryweaver

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #100 on: May 22, 2013, 11:47:30 AM »
so next time when I'm audited, I can plead the fifth--after the example of Lerner?

but Rep. Gowdy was sure angry at what she did--25 second video of his thoughts on this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFxXcBVIBjk

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Offline jerryweaver

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #101 on: May 22, 2013, 11:56:53 AM »
Former Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Douglas Shulman, ... of the IRS and is now the director of the IRS' Affordable Care Act office.

Uh Oh. Probably should stay away from the Doctor now.

Offline TahoeBlue

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http://uneditedpolitics.com/treasury-secretary-jack-lew-repeatedly-refuses-to-say-if-lois-lerner-did-anything-wrong-52213/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=treasury-secretary-jack-lew-repeatedly-refuses-to-say-if-lois-lerner-did-anything-wrong-52213

Posted on May 22, 2013
Treasury Secretary Jack Lew Repeatedly Refuses To Say If Lois Lerner Did Anything Wrong – 5/22/13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S39uVf0DpBU&feature=player_embedded


| - - -

From drudge: WH refuses to release emails to Treasury/IRS:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-misses-filing-deadline-fails-comply-congressional-demand-all-communications-wh

IRS Misses Filing Deadline: Fails to Comply With Congressional Demand for All Communications With WH About Targeting Conservatives

May 22, 2013

...
Crucial evidence needed to develop an accurate answer to that question would include the records of any communications that went back and forth between the IRS and the White House on the topic

In a May 14 letter signed by Chairman Dave Camp and Ranking Member Sander Levin, the House Ways and Means Committee demanded precisely those records from the IRS. In the same letter, the committee also demanded the records of any communications between IRS and the Treasury on the matter, plus other information and records that would help the committee understand the facts about IRS actions that subjected to heightened scrutiny conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status.

Chairman Camp and Ranking Member Levin gave the IRS a deadline of Tuesday, May 21 to comply with their committee’s demand for the information and records.
...
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2013, 02:36:43 PM »
Former Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Douglas Shulman, ... of the IRS and is now the director of the IRS' Affordable Care Act office.

Uh Oh. Probably should stay away from the Doctor now.

  Alex has told us for months that the IRS will be intimately connected to healthcare.

  Remember, Obamacare is more about CONTROL than healthcare.  YOUR PAPERS PLEASE.

  With premiums going up 100 to 400%, healthcare will hardly BE AFFORDABLE.

  After paying your premiums, you might not have enough money to put gas in your truck/car TO GET TO THE DOCTOR.

  LIVING IN THE USA WILL TRULY BE A NIGHTMARE AFTER OBAMACARE IS FULLY ENACTED IN JAN. 2014---High premiums, rationing, deathcare, many doctors quitting/retiring therefore you will get less care, etc.   
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2013, 02:55:46 PM »
  Alex has told us for months that the IRS will be intimately connected to healthcare.

  Remember, Obamacare is more about CONTROL than healthcare.  YOUR PAPERS PLEASE.

  With premiums going up 100 to 400%, healthcare will hardly BE AFFORDABLE.

  After paying your premiums, you might not have enough money to put gas in your truck/car TO GET TO THE DOCTOR.

  LIVING IN THE USA WILL TRULY BE A NIGHTMARE AFTER OBAMACARE IS FULLY ENACTED IN JAN. 2014---High premiums, rationing, deathcare, many doctors quitting/retiring therefore you will get less care, etc.   

Then add 10s of millions of illegals becoming legal, bringing in millions more of their family members, using government assistance programs, competing for jobs, and voting.  Can you say "Third World nation"?
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Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #105 on: May 22, 2013, 03:03:43 PM »
Then add 10s of millions of illegals becoming legal, bringing in millions more of their family members, using government assistance programs, competing for jobs, and voting.  Can you say "Third World nation"?

  And when that all happens, the Chinese will open factories in what was once America, and the Americans will be working for less than the Chinese.  WE MAY HAVE A NEW DESIGNATION---4TH WORLD NATION.
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Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #106 on: May 22, 2013, 03:09:39 PM »
  And when that all happens, the Chinese will open factories in what was once America, and the Americans will be working for less than the Chinese.  WE MAY HAVE A NEW DESIGNATION---4TH WORLD NATION.

It's already happening.  Apple will supposedly be building some Macs in Texas - where Chinese electronic manufacturer Foxconn already has factories.  Not hard to figure out that Foxconn will do the manufacturing.  So Americans (let's face it, probably illegals) will be working for a Chinese company where employees regularly commit suicide.
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Offline TahoeBlue

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #107 on: May 22, 2013, 03:11:41 PM »
I was shock at Issa's comment , He THANKED HER?:


http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/05/22/irss-lerner-testimony-i-did-not-break-any-laws/

May 22, 2013, 11:30 AM
.
IRS’s Lerner Testimony: ‘I Did Not Break Any Laws’
...

MS. LERNER: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Lois Lerner, and I’m the director of exempt organizations at the Internal Revenue Service. I have been a government employee for over 34 years.
... blah blah blah ,,,
..
Because I’m asserting my right not to testify, I know that some people will assume that I’ve done something wrong. I have not. One of the basic functions of the Fifth Amendment is to protect innocent individuals, and that is the protection I’m invoking today.

Thank you.

REP. ISSA: Thank you for your testimony.
...

MS. LERNER: I will not answer any questions or testify about the subject matter of this committee’s meeting.

REP. ISSA: We will take your refusal as a refusal to testify. The witness and counsel are dismissed
.
...
REP. ISSA: Thank you. We’ll pause for a moment.

(Pause.)

Ms. Lerner, I’ll ask you just a couple of additional questions. Is it possible that we could narrow the scope of questions and that there are some areas that you would be able to answer any questions on here today?

MS. LERNER: I will not answer any questions or testify today
.
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2013, 03:17:04 PM »
It's already happening.  Apple will supposedly be building some Macs in Texas - where Chinese electronic manufacturer Foxconn already has factories.  Not hard to figure out that Foxconn will do the manufacturing.  So Americans (let's face it, probably illegals) will be working for a Chinese company where employees regularly commit suicide.

  Yep and I heard that some of the companies in China have SUICIDE NETS around their buildings to keep their workers from committing suicide.   They also have signs in the factories that say IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR JOB, WE CAN REPLACE YOU WITH ONE OF THE MILLIONS THAT ARE UNEMPLOYED (something to that effect).
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/05/22/the-insiders-a-special-prosecutor-in-the-irs-matter-is-inevitable/


more at the link

  This is a no-brainer WITH ALL THE WITNESSES NOT COOPERATING and/or lying.


The Insiders: A special prosecutor in the IRS matter is inevitable


This administration’s management of the Obama Internal Revenue Service scandal so far consists of a slow-walking, rolling disclosure of facts; equal parts equivocation, amnesia and indignation from IRS witnesses; deer-in-the-headlights non-responses by the White House press secretary; parsed, lawyerly statements from the president himself; and now one of the central key players is taking the Fifth. And all this comes from what the president claimed would be the “most transparent administration ever…”
If we give the president the benefit of the doubt and assume he knows the truth is going to come out, the question remains: Does the administration appoint the special prosecutor sooner or later? The calculus inside the White House is how to best protect the president’s political interests. They have two options. They could delay the appointment and let more of the story develop, weather the ugly piecemeal disclosures, give the players time to get their stories straight and lawyer-up and hope Republicans continue their overreach, giving the whole affair a nutty partisan patina. Or, they could accelerate the appointment of a special prosecutor, thereby slowing the congressional inquiries and giving Jay Carney some relief from his daily embarrassing routine by supplying him with the escape hatch of not being allowed to comment on matters associated with the special prosecutor’s ongoing investigation. Not to mention, the White House all the while could blast the appointed counsel as a partisan ideologue à la the hatchet job that was done on Ken Starr.
Anyway, if the president is innocent, he will end up needing and wanting a special prosecutor sooner rather than later. If he and his White House already have too much to hide, then they must clam up, cry partisanship and hope their allies on the Hill and in the media have the stamina for the long, hard slog ahead.
- – - – -
My personal favorite of all the new revelations from the Obama IRS scandal is that White House Counsel Kathryn Ruemmler told White House Chief of Staff Denis McDonough about the impending IRS inspector general report, but of course the White House chief of staff did not tell the president.
I sat in a White House chief of staff’s office every day for more than two years. The only reason the legal counsel would tell the chief of staff about an impending report or disclosure would be so the chief of staff could tell the president. The legal counsel would assume the chief of staff would know how and when to bring up the matter. The chief of staff would be expected to know if there were additional factors surrounding the issue that needed to be considered before the president was told, or whether or not others needed to be included in the conversation when the information was shared with the president. There are many valid reasons why the chief of staff would tell the president, but I can’t think of a reason why he and the legal counsel would both agree that this news nugget would go no further. It’s very odd.

I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2013, 03:40:24 PM »
http://www.drudgereport.com/

  Developing story at Drudge Report

   That's what I thought.  When she started giving an opening statement she lost her 5th Amendment rights.  THe opening statement opened her up for questioning.  HER LAWYERS ARE SOOOO STUPID. 

 
FLASH: ISSA TO SUBPOENA LOIS LERNER BACK TO COMMITTEE...
'Waived her fifth amendment rights' by giving opening statement...
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Monkeypox

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #111 on: May 22, 2013, 04:04:19 PM »
  Yep and I heard that some of the companies in China have SUICIDE NETS around their buildings to keep their workers from committing suicide.   They also have signs in the factories that say IF YOU DON'T LIKE YOUR JOB, WE CAN REPLACE YOU WITH ONE OF THE MILLIONS THAT ARE UNEMPLOYED (something to that effect).

Yep - Foxconn is the company with the suicide nets.
War Is Peace - Freedom Is Slavery - Ignorance Is Strength


"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #112 on: May 22, 2013, 04:08:50 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://news.cnet.com/2300-13579_3-10013733-14.html


                Suicide nets at Foxconn
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline chris jones

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #113 on: May 22, 2013, 04:15:16 PM »
 Power, arrogance.. fric & frac syndrome.
     Why don't they simple give the American people the bird!
     NOW-She has to report to the WH and get orders.

Offline lee51

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #114 on: May 22, 2013, 04:25:55 PM »
Rep. Trey Gowdy questions Mr. Shulman, former IRS Commissioner--at this short video.

Notice Mr. Shulman can hardly lift his head up and tries to skirt around the questions but Mr. Gowdy holds him to a direct answer.  In the end he just won't answer him.  Worth watching....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8WNgbRGcRQ

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #115 on: May 22, 2013, 04:44:45 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Shulman wants to find a hole to crawl in.

  Shulman can't say the words YES or NO.

  Gowdy is a great member of the committee.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline TahoeBlue

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Doug Shulman Juris (Law) Magna Cum Laude from Georgetown Law doesn't know the Constitution!
Doesn't know that TEA in TEA Party stands for TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Shulman
Douglas H. Shulman (born 1967) was the U.S. Commissioner of Internal Revenue. His appointment by then-president George W. Bush was confirmed by the full U.S. Senate on March 14, 2008[1] and he was sworn in on March 24, 2008.[2] He formerly served as vice chairman of the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) (successor to NASD) and sat on the board at the Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation (DTCC) .[3]

Shulman holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Williams College, a Master of Public Administration degree from Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government, and a

Juris Doctor degree magna cum laude from Georgetown University Law Center.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/22/awkward-former-irs-head-says-he-really-cant-recite-the-constitution-when-pressed-by-gop-rep/
Awkward: Former IRS Head  Doug Shulman  Says He ‘Really Can’t Recite the Constitution’ When Pressed by GOP Rep

May. 22, 2013 3:16pm Jonathon M. Seidl
...
Rep. Kerry Bentivolio (R-MI), while seemingly making a larger point, couldn’t get former IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman to acknowledge certain amendments to the Constitution.

After confirming that the IRS requires ethics training, Bentivolio was trying to figure out if the IRS required training on the Constitution. He may have got his answer despite Shulman’s response saying he couldn’t give one.

Did you study the Constitution?” Bentivolio asked.

I went to law school,” Shulman responded.

You went to law school. Did you study the Constitution?”

I believe I took Constitutional law, but I’m not prepared to take an exam at this time,” Shulman said with a chuckle. “Meaning I’ll answer any of your question but I can’t promise that I’m an expert.”

“Well, you know the First, Second Amendment and one of my favorites, the 19th, right? You know those?” Bentivolio asked.

“Excuse me,” a seemingly confused Shulman responded.

“You know those amendments. The Constitutional amendments,” Bentivolio said matter of factly. “You know the First, you know the Second, and you know the 19th.”

I don’t necessarily have the Constitution memorized, sir.”

“Okay, well, they’re pretty general in what each one is. Like the First Amendment is the freedom of the press, freedom of religion, and freedom to petition the government for a redress of grievances. First Amendment, right?”

“I really can’t recite the Constitution, sir,” Shulman concluded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IgMjyGkF2N8
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline jerryweaver

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The really bad joke is with no taxes and interest free money everybody gets rich including gooberment.

Offline lee51

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2013, 09:27:11 PM »
Just published about who really was in charge with the IRS--by Ben Swann (Reality Check)

Short video at link below

http://www.fox19.com/story/22380127/reality-check-exclusive-cincinnati-agent-giving-orders-in-irs-scandal

Reality Check Exclusive: Cincinnati agent giving orders in IRS scandal?

Posted: May 21, 2013 6:46 PM PDT Updated: May 21, 2013 7:31 PM PDT

The claim that the ongoing IRS scandal is limited to low level employees is falling apart.

The six Cincinnati workers we have identified, who sent scrutinizing letters to conservative groups with words including "patriot, liberty, tea party or 9-12" in their names are Mitchel Steele, Carly Young, Joseph Herr, Stephen Seok, Liz Hofacre and a woman identified only as Ms. Richards.
 
But was all of this done at the hands of a small group of Cincinnati employees working together?  During Friday's congressional hearing, that appeared to be the theme.  Now, that explanation just became less likely.
 
Thanks to two FOX19 sources connected to the IRS, we now understand the chain of command for these workers.
 
Mitchel Steele, Carly Young, Joseph Herr and Liz Hofacre are IRS agents.  Stephen Seok is a supervisor IRS agent.
 
But according to the IRS employee directory that FOX19 has obtained exclusively, each of these agents has a different manager and then above them a different territory manager.
 
That is important because while it may sound reasonable to the average person that these workers began targeting groups on their own, the IRS structure is designed to prevent that.
 
Here is how that works.
 
When an application for tax exempt status comes into the IRS, agents have 270 days to work through that application.  If the application is not processed within those 270 days it automatically triggers flags in the system.  When that happens, individual agents are required to input a status update on that individual case once a month, every month until the case is resolved.
 
Keep in mind, at least 300 groups were targeted out of Cincinnati alone.  Those applications spent anywhere from 18 months to nearly 3 years in the system and some still don't have their non-profit status.  300 groups multiplied by at least 18 months for each group, means thousands of red flags would have been generated in the system.
 
So who in the chain of command would have received all these flags?  The answer, according to the IRS directory,  one woman in Cincinnati, Cindy Thomas, the Program Manager of the Tax Exempt Division.  Because all six of our IRS workers have different individual and territory managers, Cindy Thomas is one manager they all have common.    
 
It turns out Cindy Thomas' name is one we have heard before.  The independent journalism group ProPublica says in November of 2012 they had requested information on conservatives groups that had received non-profit status.  Along with that information, the IRS released private information on nine conservative groups that had not yet been approved and personal information had not been redacted.  The person who signed off on that release, Cindy Thomas.
 
What this means for you... consider this chain of command since the story broke.
 
Former Acting IRS Commissioner Steven Miller… retires
 
Joseph Grant, Commissioner of Tax Exempt and Government Entities... retires.
 
Lois Lerner, Head of Exempt Organization…says she will invoke her 5th amendment right to not incriminate herself when called before Congress on Wednesday.
 
Holly Paz, Director of Exempt Organizations, subpoenaed to Washington to be interviewed by members of Congress.

All of this IRS leadership, in Washington D.C.
 
Then one level down is Cindy Thomas, the highest ranking employee in Cincinnati in this Tax Exempt and Government Entities Department that no one in Congress is talking to... yet.    
 
And that is Reality Check.

Offline No2NWO

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Re: Watch IRS Scum Lois Lerner Plead the 5th on C-SPAN3 LIVE
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2013, 10:35:02 PM »
"BEAT THEM BY NEVER JOINING THEM" ~ No2NWO
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions.