Banks Foreclosing on Churches in Record Numbers

[jofortruth]

Banks Foreclosing on Churches in Record Numbers
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/09/us-usa-housing-churches-idUSBRE82803120120309

[MonkeyPuppet]

Churches are notorious for horrid bookkeeping, wasteful spending and for having PAID workers embezzle large sums of money.

My father is a pastor and has seen it all.  He's the ONLY pastor I've met that refuses to take a salary from a church.

That is another disturbing aspect of typical church finances... most pastors get paid for running their mouth instead of actually working for a living and donating their time and treasure like everyone else.

For the most part, these churches are losing their earthly temples due to THEIR OWN greed and sloth... funny how us non-religious types see it so clearly.

[America2]

Groover said the church did not default by missing monthly payments, but is in trouble because the loan ballooned.

"We don't have a million dollars to pay off the loan. I don't know what church does. The idea of auctioning off a church is senseless," he said.

Then why in the world did his church take out this million dollar loan in the first place Did he really think they can have their cake AND eat it too?

[Geolibertarian]

Of all the churches being foreclosed on, I'm very curious to know how many are on the FEMA payroll:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLhsv9HhplU
     http://www.prisonplanet.com/church-organization-refuses-to-divulge-if-pastors-are-on-fema-payroll.html

If my hunch is correct, few if any are.

[MonkeyPuppet]

Of all the churches being foreclosed on, I'm very curious to know how many are on the FEMA payroll:

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLhsv9HhplU
     http://www.prisonplanet.com/church-organization-refuses-to-divulge-if-pastors-are-on-fema-payroll.html

If my hunch is correct, few if any are.

That's definitely an angle worth checking into, but so far it looks like the typical church bookkeeping biting them in the ass.  When we see mass home foreclosures, we are not quick to question whether the homeowners are outspoken patriots and protesters.  We see it as a mix of irresponsible borrowing and predatory lending.  Just a thought.

I've seen the effects of the backroom deals and embezzling at several churches.  It is rampant.  They borrow all kinds of money and use very little of what comes in to pay the loans down... knowing that banks are not quick to foreclose on churches.  Many so-called "elders" live in very nice houses, drive new cars and eat out regularly... all on the church's dime.  Sure, they're offering their time and wisdom to the church, but at an exorbitant cost.  As we see here, that cost could very well be the church itself.

[Geolibertarian]

That's definitely an angle worth checking into, but so far it looks like the typical church bookkeeping biting them in the ass.  When we see mass home foreclosures, we are not quick to question whether the homeowners are outspoken patriots and protesters.  We see it as a mix of irresponsible borrowing and predatory lending.  Just a thought.

I've seen the effects of the backroom deals and embezzling at several churches.  It is rampant.  They borrow all kinds of money and use very little of what comes in to pay the loans down... knowing that banks are not quick to foreclose on churches.  Many so-called "elders" live in very nice houses, drive new cars and eat out regularly... all on the church's dime.  Sure, they're offering their time and wisdom to the church, but at an exorbitant cost.  As we see here, that cost could very well be the church itself.

Of course all that is true, but it misses the point. That point is that, if the church in question is on the FEMA payroll, isn't it reasonable to assume that it will get "bailed out" of any financial mess its prostitute leaders get it into?

The banker-owned "U.S." government certainly had no problem wasting trillions of dollars bailing out a handful of derivatives-infected mega-banks. By contrast, how much would it cost to bailout the average mega-church? A few million, perhaps?

[chris jones]

 Play ball, and all is well. I am probably missing something here, but exactly what churches are being targeted.
Is is just those who's pastors have refused alliance with FEMA, DHS, etc.

Has anyone stood up and asked their spiritual leaders if the Christ condones genocide, military invasion, the slaughter of innocents.  WELL< Give it a try, ASK, its eye opening.
 How many parishioners have questioned,,Not many, or are they ostracized if they do, heresy is to question the acts of our Gov and their military.
   Send cooky's, comic books, cute cards from the kids, and tell the grunts to have faith.
I can't say in all honesty what the true reasoning is, however this underlying reasoning ( go along) may just be a percentage of their action being taken.
   Frankly, the actual history of organized religion displays the fact they have had their part in many political affairs, if only to support them and in some cases serious involvement and serious persuasive acts.
 We have a phys co in Uganda waving the bible, spouting the ten commandment and slaughtering.
Hypocritical, OK, but a fine historical replay of latter century me thodry..The truth is the closet to divinity humans can search for.

[Kilika]

Churches are notorious for horrid bookkeeping, wasteful spending and for having PAID workers embezzle large sums of money.

My father is a pastor and has seen it all.  He's the ONLY pastor I've met that refuses to take a salary from a church.

That is another disturbing aspect of typical church finances... most pastors get paid for running their mouth instead of actually working for a living and donating their time and treasure like everyone else.

For the most part, these churches are losing their earthly temples due to THEIR OWN greed and sloth... funny how us non-religious types see it so clearly.

Your not the only one that sees it!

And if you want the truth to why, it's because there is no life in those organizations. They are not real. They are false "churches". They are what is called "churchianity". They aren't real Christians.

As for which are FEMA-approved, hard to say, but that wouldn't surprise me if the feds went after churches that don't join the FEMA team.

[America2]

Your not the only one that sees it!

And if you want the truth to why, it's because there is no life in those organizations. They are not real. They are false "churches". They are what is called "churchianity". They aren't real Christians.

As for which are FEMA-approved, hard to say, but that wouldn't surprise me if the feds went after churches that don't join the FEMA team.

FWIW, the pastor at my mom's church is on the road driving around during the week(after the Sunday service, that is) - supposedly, he's a Director of some "missions board"(or something like that). Maybe he's sincere, I don't know - but whether he is or not, this is NOT the job of a pastor to drive around the road serving other jobs throughout the week. His job is to GUARD, NUTURE, CARE FOR, etc the flock. Jesus told Peter to "Feed my sheep". He(nor anyone else) is NOT doing that when they're striving for CAREERS like this, which would make them HIRELINGS, as Jesus says.

And the pastor at my previous church in Louisiana openly admitted to the congregation on a Sunday service years ago that he would fly to Washington DC to fellowship with Bobby Jindal(when he was Congressman, he's now governor of the state). For one, Jindal is Catholic, and two, obviously, this pastor has no business flying around the country hanging out with his friends when he should be feeding and taking care of the flock back home. And I doubt if he used his own money to pay for the airline tickets as well.

There's just no discernment in the modern-day church now largely b/c the pastors are self-centered and have no love for the flock. Also, read Randall Baer's "Inside the New Age Nightmare" - he ended up getting out of the New Age movement after being in there for awhile, and converted to Christianity. However, he said that he ended up getting his foot in the New Age door as a teenager b/c when he would ask questions to adults in the church, as well as a chaplain, they reacted to him pretty coldly. I believe this was back in the 50's when he was a teenager, however, it was the 50's when LBJ got 501c3 for churches passed(which corrupted churches who took this status). I too share Baer's experience with this b/c when I was a boy, the adults(Sun school teachers et al) had this same attitude as well.

[larsonstdoc]

FWIW, the pastor at my mom's church is on the road driving around during the week(after the Sunday service, that is) - supposedly, he's a Director of some "missions board"(or something like that). Maybe he's sincere, I don't know - but whether he is or not, this is NOT the job of a pastor to drive around the road serving other jobs throughout the week. His job is to GUARD, NUTURE, CARE FOR, etc the flock. Jesus told Peter to "Feed my sheep". He(nor anyone else) is NOT doing that when they're striving for CAREERS like this, which would make them HIRELINGS, as Jesus says.

And the pastor at my previous church in Louisiana openly admitted to the congregation on a Sunday service years ago that he would fly to Washington DC to fellowship with Bobby Jindal(when he was Congressman, he's now governor of the state). For one, Jindal is Catholic, and two, obviously, this pastor has no business flying around the country hanging out with his friends when he should be feeding and taking care of the flock back home. And I doubt if he used his own money to pay for the airline tickets as well.

There's just no discernment in the modern-day church now largely b/c the pastors are self-centered and have no love for the flock. Also, read Randall Baer's "Inside the New Age Nightmare" - he ended up getting out of the New Age movement after being in there for awhile, and converted to Christianity. However, he said that he ended up getting his foot in the New Age door as a teenager b/c when he would ask questions to adults in the church, as well as a chaplain, they reacted to him pretty coldly. I believe this was back in the 50's when he was a teenager, however, it was the 50's when LBJ got 501c3 for churches passed(which corrupted churches who took this status). I too share Baer's experience with this b/c when I was a boy, the adults(Sun school teachers et al) had this same attitude as well.

  Nice post America2.  If God used His power to shut down the "we're in it for the money" churches, there would be very left in business.

[jofortruth]

I agree with America2 on this!

The weakminded Pastors have been coopted just like the spineless Congressmen. They have opted for "Power" and "Prestige" over "Passion and "Priority" for and of their local congregation.

You can thank the Bush & Obama "Faith Based" program for this coopting. Some of these pastors thought they were being welcomed in to have a voice in Washington, but instead they have been railroaded into going along with Washington and overtaken by their powerful feelings of being one of the boyz!

There is nothing more shameful than people who don't know their duty, and who abandon it for "money" and "power" (whether real or not)! By "going along to get along", they have made a serious mistake (some willingly) and have defiled their churches and themselves.

When they allowed themselves to be bought by Washington, they in turn have destroyed their ministry and turned toward the Elite One World Religion that is being foisted on the people of America!

[Leftovers]

The foreclosed churches are being bought by other churches..I saw a news story on it...

[jofortruth]

The foreclosed churches are being bought by other churches..I saw a news story on it...

Can you give us a link? So are they consolidating like in everything else? Then what will be left? One world religion and the few who have been bought off?

Would like to see an article on what you saw!

[Geolibertarian]

The foreclosed churches are being bought by other churches..I saw a news story on it...

"Other churches" whose appointed leaders are undoubtedly on the FEMA payroll.

I think We Are Change activists should start asking some of these so-called "pastors" whether they've accepted any money or received any training from FEMA, and upload the unintentionally revealing responses to youtube.

[kerrymti]

I remember growing up in a fairly large church (highest attendance was around 2,500 on Sunday morning).  Anyway, the pastor did not take a salary, he did live in a house the church owned, but received no compensation (he had a second job).  Our church would have fund raisers to raise money for new building projects.  Once we had raised enough money to complete the project, we would begin the project.  If we got in the middle of it and something unexpected came up and we did not have enough to complete it, we would have more fund raisers and raise the money.  We did not take out loans!

[chris jones]

"Other churches" whose appointed leaders are undoubtedly on the FEMA payroll.

I think We Are Change activists should start asking some of these so-called "pastors" whether they've accepted any money or received any training from FEMA, and upload the unintentionally revealing responses to youtube.

Geo,   what hits me is these $$ pastors could put up a smoke screen, safety of the flock etc.
  I'd just give a pint of blood to see how pulpit thumpers react if asked, " Are we, the USA, invading, waring and torturing in the beleif we are following the Christs message."
  Not to get into a lot of scripture, but I do remember a verse, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they are the true children of God" probably not worded properly but close. 

[Geolibertarian]

Geo,   what hits me is these $$ pastors could put up a smoke screen, safety of the flock etc.

The obvious response to which is: "Excuse me, pastor, but how many people of faith in Nazi Germany were told the same exact thing?"

Not to get into a lot of scripture, but I do remember a verse, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they are the true children of God" probably not worded properly but close.

I think it's safe to assume that the average FEMA pastor is much more fond of such verses as the following:

"Let all who are under a yoke as slaves regard their own masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be reviled." -- 1 Timothy 6:1

"Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." -- Colossians 3:22

"Slaves are to be submissive to their own masters in everything; they are to be well-pleasing, not argumentative." -- Titus 2:9

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ." -- Ephesians 6:5

[jofortruth]

Todays American Churches are Neutered - Pastor Chuck Baldwin on AJ's show last week revealed how America's Pastors have failed and caved in to the Elite evil, rather than stand up to it. At the moment they should not be quiet, they are quiet and are betraying their congregations. Our "leaders" are cowards in churches, cowards in Congress, cowards among the public. How shameful America has become:
http://www.infowars.com/todays-american-churches-are-neutered-pastor-chuck-baldwin-reports/

[America2]

Can you give us a link? So are they consolidating like in everything else? Then what will be left? One world religion and the few who have been bought off?

Would like to see an article on what you saw!

Corporate Church Hostile Takeover! 1/17/2012

By Bryan Delinger

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1171217591

Matthew 24:12. Here is the link to this news story on James Sundquist's website:

http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com/post/church-battles-to-keep-paramus-location-abc-news/

He provides the links to many articles showing how denominations like the Christian Missionary Alliance and Assemblies of God, are now stealing "paid for" church properties and selling them for a profit!!!

The articles also detail how the C&MA are removing the "credentials" of pastors who go against their authority!

The 501c3 "church" corporations are starting to implode!

[America2]

Survey Reveals Which Pastors Get Paid Most
http://www.christianpost.com/news/survey-reveals-which-pastors-get-paid-most-29537/

By Audrey Barrick , Christian Post Reporter

October 2, 2007|10:20 am

Presbyterian senior pastors have a higher salary than those of any other denomination, a new survey showed.

The average salary for the head pastor in Presbyterian churches was $78,000 (plus housing/parsonage), according to Christianity Today's latest church salary survey. Baptist senior pastors earned next to last with $67,000.

The survey found that Presbyterian churches have the highest-reported church income among churches with senior pastors, and some of that income goes to the head behind the pulpit.

Notably, however, while Baptist and Presbyterian churches that have youth pastors generate virtually identical church income, Baptist youth pastors earned near the top with a salary plus housing of $44,000 while Presbyterian youth pastors earned only $36,000.

Apparently, though, Baptist churches value youth ministry more, because they pay their youth pastors 20 percent more," according to Christianity Today.

Another surprising finding showed that female solo pastors earn more than their male counterparts. Although only 6 percent of survey respondents who identified themselves as solo pastors were women, they reported 10.4 percent higher total compensation and their average salary was 8.6 percent higher than men's ($49,219 compared to $45,259). Total compensation, which includes health insurance, retirement and continuing education, for women was $62,472 while that of men was $56,558.

Kevin Miller, executive vice-president and publisher of Christianity Today International, said the explanation for the salary difference is likely to be regional. Solo pastors receive the highest pay in the New England and Pacific states, considering the higher cost of living, Miller noted. "And these regions probably have the greatest cultural acceptance of women serving as solo pastors."

Nevertheless, the survey showed the still-prevalent cultural practice of paying women less than men. Besides solo pastors and secretaries, women were paid less than men in every other church position. Men earned about 30 percent more than women. Among senior pastors, men earned an average of $81,432 (salary plus benefits) while women earned only $66,218. Also, male custodian/maintenance workers earned an average of $36,057 compared to the $26,175 annual compensation for their female counterparts.

On another note, the survey found that the higher education a pastor has, the higher salary he or she earns. An additional college degree earns a pastor $7,000 to $15,000 more per year. Pastors with a bachelor's degree get a 10 percent boost in income and those with a master's degree get a 20 percent increase. And a doctorate degree results in an additional 15 percent boost.

The 2008 Compensation Handbook for Church Staff, which releases this month, provides church employee compensation breakdowns for part-time, full-time, church size, income budget, and geographical setting. The report is based on research among nearly 2,100 American churches. It presents data on 13 church positions based on research among nearly 2,100 American churches that were surveyed between January 2007 and May 2007.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joh 10:7  Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8  All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10  The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joh 10:11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

[jofortruth]

Corporate Church Hostile Takeover! 1/17/2012

By Bryan Delinger

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1171217591

Matthew 24:12. Here is the link to this news story on James Sundquist's website:

http://www.perfectpeaceplan.com/post/church-battles-to-keep-paramus-location-abc-news/

He provides the links to many articles showing how denominations like the Christian Missionary Alliance and Assemblies of God, are now stealing "paid for" church properties and selling them for a profit!!!

The articles also detail how the C&MA are removing the "credentials" of pastors who go against their authority!

The 501c3 "church" corporations are starting to implode!

 

[Geolibertarian]

http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-many-churches-and-the-splc-have-in-common.html

What Many Churches And The SPLC Have In Common

Chuck Baldwin
March 30, 2012

Those of us who believe in constitutional government, the Bill of Rights, personal liberty, and State autonomy are beginning to taste what German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer and pastor Martin Niemoller experienced back in 1930’s Germany. These two great lovers of God and freedom were ostracized and eventually persecuted by both Germany’s political and social societies and by “German Christians.” History does have a way of repeating itself, doesn’t it?

Anyone who does not recognize that America is rapidly being transformed into a fascist state is as dumb as Balaam’s ass. No, dumber! At least the ass had the sense to stop when it realized it was heading smack into God’s wrath.

For all intents and purposes, the US Constitution is dead; the Bill of Rights is dead; the vision of the Founding Fathers is dead; and federalism and republicanism are also dead. What we have left is a blend of socialism, welfarism, fascism, statism, and warfarism, with fascism becoming the dominant “ism” of the bunch.

If you want to know where America is quickly heading, go watch the movie “The Hunger Games,” currently playing in theaters everywhere. Or read Orwell’s “1984,” or Huxley’s “Brave New World.” Or better yet, take your eyes off ESPN just long enough to take a good look outside. America, as “the land of the free,” is disappearing. It is already unrecognizable from the country I grew up in, not to mention the country that our Founding Fathers fought and died to create. What happened in fascist Germany is happening right now in America. And one of the telltale marks of this emerging fascist society is the way people who believe in constitutional government, liberty, and individualism are being treated by the mainstream media, mainstream religion, and mainstream politics.

For years, the mainstream media has characterized constitutionalists, patriots, and traditionalists as “far-right,” “extremist,” “radical,” etc. Establishment politicians in both major parties have likewise branded anyone who would not subscribe to their big-government agenda. Groups such as the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) have regurgitated the same inflammatory rhetoric, throwing “racist” and “anti-government” into the mix. And since 9/11/01, the Naziesque Department of Homeland Security has picked up the hype and fomented fear and suspicion of anyone so identified in the hearts of law enforcement personnel nationwide. Now, just like in Nazi Germany, even churches and professing Christians are getting into the act.

For the sake of their precious 501c3 non-profit corporation status, many churches are becoming little more than government disinformation centers. Instead of energizing men and women with the message of Christian liberty (of which the Gospel is at the center), churches are busily sedating them. The Caesars’ “bread and circus” scheme had nothing over the “music, smoke, and entertainment” scheme of the modern American church. Instead of giving young people the scriptural tools necessary to be the champions of liberty, they are providing the opiate by which they will sheepishly take the Mark of the Beast. And woe be unto any Christian who decides to step outside these politically correct religious boxes!

In his blockbuster book, “Hitler’s Cross,” Erwin Lutzer wrote, “The crisis of which he [Bonhoeffer] spoke was only partly a conflict between Hitler and Christianity. It was primarily a struggle of the church against itself; it was the struggle of the false and true, the swastika and the Cross. It was a struggle within a church that had voluntarily embraced the German nationalism of the day.”

Lutzer continued saying, “The ‘German Christians’…were committed to bringing the church in line with Nazism.” Again he wrote, “The ‘German Christians’ [were] also known as ‘The Faith Movement.’” And again, “These Christians adorned their altars with Nazi flags and had their congregations join in the Nazi salute.”

Lutzer points out that the “German Christians” commonly sewed the Cross in the middle of the Nazi flag and enthusiastically embraced what they called Hitler’s “positive Christianity.” Lutzer rightly notes that Hitler successfully “Nazified” Germany’s churches, and that had he not done so, the history of Germany (and the world) would have been drastically different.

It was men such as Bonhoeffer and Niemoller who resisted Hitler’s “Nazification” and started what became known as “The Confessing Church.” These churches were comprised of pastors and Christians who would not subordinate the scriptures to the dominion and will of the state. They refused to sacrifice the Gospel message of Christian liberty to Hitler’s erroneous “Obey-the-government-no-matter-what” interpretation of Romans chapter 13. They refused to allow their churches to be bought off or bribed by government tax deductions and benefits.

How many churches were in “The Confessing Church”? Out of 14,000 evangelical churches in Germany at the time, approximately 800 stayed true to scripture. That’s right. About 5% of Germany’s churches and pastors refused to surrender to the fascist state emerging around them. And you know that those 800 churches paid a terrible price for their resolve. They were scorned and snubbed by their “Christian” brothers and sisters. They were called “extremist,” “radical,” and “anti-government.” Friends and coworkers ostracized them. The German national press corps marginalized them. They were blackballed, ridiculed, and shunned. And eventually, they were imprisoned, tortured, and even murdered.

And ladies and gentlemen, right now in these United States, Christians who are part of the modern “Confessing Church” are experiencing the same kind of mischaracterization, ridicule, and resentment by the mainstream media, the SPLC, and even fellow Christians. Yes, in America today, the SPLC and many churches have the denouncing and hatred of the uncompromising “Confessing Church” in common.

To those of us in the modern “Confessing Church,” I ask, “If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses?” (Jeremiah 12:5) In other words, if we cannot withstand a little ridicule, if we are unwilling to be ostracized, if we cannot take the mischaracterizations that we are experiencing now, what will we do when it gets serious? If the footmen tire you, what will the horsemen do? I say to you, “Quit you like men; be strong.” (I Corinthians 16:13) “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.” (Galatians 5:1)

And to those of you who think you can sit on the fence of popularity and acceptance and yet remain true to Christ and to the principles of liberty, which He established, you are sadly mistaken. If you think you can be neutral in this fight, you are deluded. If you think that when America has been thoroughly immersed in this baptism of fascism that you and your family will escape unscathed, you are dreaming. What we in the modern “Confessing Church” are experiencing, you will soon experience. Either that, or you will sell your soul and the souls of your children to Satan and his kingdom.

Someone rightly said, “It is dangerous to be right when your government is wrong.” Bonhoeffer and Niemoller discovered the truth of that statement; and so are many of us today. But as Sean Connery’s character said at the end of “The Wind And The Lion,” “Is there not one thing in your life that is worth losing everything for?” Ask yourself, are comfort, acceptance, money, and position, etc., worth losing your liberty for? No, they are not; but liberty IS worth losing everything for! At least Bonhoeffer and Niemoller thought so. So did America’s founders. And so do I!

[jofortruth]

http://www.aacb.com/publications/ed/index....llAction=Page+1
http://news.yahoo.com/banks-foreclosing-churches-record-numbers-020527024.html

See May 2012 Edition Economic Digest

A & A Contract Customs Brokers Ltd. <newsletter@aacb.com>

FORECLOSURES

Banks are foreclosing on America's churches in record numbers as lenders increasingly lose patience with religious facilities that have defaulted on their mortgages. Since 2010, 270 US churches have been sold after defaulting on their loans. In 2011, 138 churches were sold by banks. This compares to just 24 sales in 2008, before the economic downturn. The foreclosures have hit all denominations across the U.S., black and white, but with small to medium size houses of worship affected the most. The hardest hit areas are in California, Georgia, Florida and Michigan.[/color]

[chris jones]

The foreclosures have hit all denominations across the U.S., black and white, but with small to medium size houses of worship affected the most.
  Aces and eights.