What if advanced robotics eliminates the need for human labor?
maim:
machines/computers already run so many aspects of our lives, and they havent taken over yet. no reason to assume they ever will.
Geolibertarian:
Quote from: maim on February 14, 2012, 11:17:00 AM
machines/computers already run so many aspects of our lives, and they havent taken over yet. no reason to assume they ever will.
Famous last words if ever I heard them.
Enjoy the bliss.
Modzilla_Kicker:
Quote
I voted 'other'.
In discussing such a fundamental existential issue, we have to return to the basics of who owns what. If the globalists created the earth and the air we breathe and our bodies, or they legitimately own it all, or we give ourselves over to them, then it is theirs to decide what is best for them. But if we believe in a Creator that creates life and everything that sustains it, then it goes without saying that those who want to play their globaloney control freak game can do so in a simulated fashion only. Because those that firmly believe in a Creator will have more than self-survival to guide their actions in this regard.
readislamicbooks.com/universe-has-been-created-for-man’s-service.html
Modzilla_Kicker:
Under a truly islamic system, certain restrictions on the ownership of basic natural resources and the zakat imposed on the produce of agricultural lands among other things ensure that the scenario whereby a tiny elite end up owning almost all the means of production to the exclusion of the masses, who are then deemed superfluous and obsolete, is not allowed to happen, that is if ppl do not give in to social darwinism and opt for a way of life that promotes a win-win situation for every human being.
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Commentary:
A: According to the Shafi, Maliki and Hanbali schools what is intended by water that the people share and therefore cannot buy and sell is the rain water, river water and the like, and not water from private sources such as a private well. The pastures are the open areas of land which are not owned by anyone, or land which is not being used for agriculture and has the normal vegetation for grazing cattle. Fire indicates any natural resources which are used to produce heat and energy, such as wood, coal and oil.
B: Other narrations also indicate that people can possess and sell water as long as the community was not in dire need of it.
C: It can be derived from these narrations that whatever the community is in need of must be provided and cannot be withheld privately to the disadvantage of the people. So the state is responsible to provide the people with access to water and energy as required to fulfill their needs, and all public utilities as necessitated by the time and place.
D: It is therefore not permissible to adopt the model of liberal privatization whereby even the essential public utilities are sold to private companies and are therefore not available except to those who pay for them, leading to a society where only those with material wealth can access vital services.
http://ahadith.co.uk/sixtysultaniyya.php?tid=19
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Economy in the Caliphate
During the medieval Arab Agricultural Revolution, a social transformation took place as a result of changing land ownership giving individuals of any gender,[16] ethnic or religious background the right to buy, sell, mortgage and inherit land. Based on the Quran, signatures were required on contracts for major financial transactions concerning agriculture, industry, commerce, and employment. Copies of the contract were usually kept by both parties involved.
There are similarities between Islamic economics and leftist or socialist economic policies. Islamic jurists have argued that privatization of resources of oil, gas, and other fire-producing fuels, agricultural land, and water is forbidden. The principle of public or joint ownership has been drawn by Muslim jurists from the following hadith of the Prophet of Islam:
Ibn Abbas reported that Muhammad said: "All Muslims are partners in three things—in water, herbage and fire." (Narrated in Abu Daud, & Ibn Majah)[17]]</ref> Anas added to the above hadith, "Its price is Haram (forbidden)"[18][dead link] Jurists have argued by qiyas that the above restriction on privatization can be extended to all essential resources that benefit the community as a whole.[17]
Aside from similarities to socialism, early forms of proto-capitalism and free markets were present in the Caliphate.[19] An early market economy and early form of merchant capitalism developed between the 8th and 12th centuries.[20] A vigorous monetary economy developed based on the wide circulation of a common currency (the dinar) and the integration of previously independent monetary areas. Business techniques and forms of business organization employed during this time included early contracts, bills of exchange, long-distance international trade, early forms of partnership (mufawada) such as limited partnerships (mudaraba), and early forms of credit, debt, profit, loss, capital (al-mal), capital accumulation (nama al-mal),[21] circulating capital, capital expenditure, revenue, cheques, promissory notes,[22] trusts (waqf), savings accounts, transactional accounts, pawning, loaning, exchange rates, bankers, money changers, ledgers, deposits, assignments, the double-entry bookkeeping system,[23] and lawsuits.[24] Organizational enterprises similar to corporations independent from the state also existed in the medieval Islamic world.[25][26] Many of these concepts were adopted and further advanced in medieval Europe from the 13th century onwards.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Islamic_economic_jurisprudence&mobileaction=disable_mobile_site
Brocke:
Your question assumes a population of unskilled laborers who need work.
There is a difference between "labor" and "skilled labor" and "craftsmanship".
We may get to the point where digging a hole is no longer a job that humans do. However, if you are digging a foundation for a building or a deep mine where you need to take into account precise specifications and an infinite number of variables, this is where hundreds of thousands of years of human experience working with tools, interacting with our environment and problem solving come into play. I doubt that physical power and computing power could ever replace the skills developed naturally by human experience.
If the market demands disposable junk then robots will suffice. If it demands quality, safety and longevity then human labor is inevitable. At the present moment in time we are worshiping disposable junk.
Ray Kurzweil is a vile anti-human retard. He would argue that instead of building a safer automobile we should build a stronger human exoskeleton. I work with computers every day and I can tell you that I would not want to be "melded" with one no matter how fast it was.
We do not need a future of robot factories. We need a future of human craftsman and artisans.
Factories suggest mass consumption and mass consumption suggests mass demand. After Ray Kurzweil's so called "convergence" where would the demand come from?
EXAMPLES of human excellence
The making of a Louis Vuitton shoe in Fiesso d'Artico, Italy
http://www.wimp.com/vuittonshoe/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrzNkhJsJm8
How Colt 1911 Handguns Are Made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOgqSIHPEM
Wooden boats built in Bodrum, Turkey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hctvrogbE5Q
Davies and Son 38 Savile Row - Cutting and Sewing a Savile Row Bespoke Suit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8vUoaeHTko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF2rNXcS7Uw
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