Are Church Confessions Safe? Court To Hear Arguments

[Dok]

Are Church Confessions Safe? Court To Hear Arguments

In a case that could set national precedent, the three-judge Michigan Court of Appeals panel plans to hear arguments Thursday about whether a pastor’s testimony related to a possible confession in a child sexual assault case may be used in court.

rest: http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/02/08/court-to-hear-arguments-about-pastors-testimony/

[Georgiacopguy]

All the more reason to not confess to a priest.

[Dok]

All the more reason to not confess to a priest.

Not just a priest, the confession was made to a Pastor. And it was apparently a Pastor that got the ball rolling. The thing about this is this piece from the article.

“If the pastor is allowed to testify, think about what it would do to the burden of proof. I mean, you’re presumed innocent and if a pastor gets up on the stand to testify, most of the jury members are going to take his word, and I think that eliminates the presumption of innocence,” Cassar told WWJ’s Roberta Jasina.

With the Governments Clergy Responce Teams, and most Pastors, Reverends and Priest being part of 501c3 Government ran churches, you dont even need to confess anymore. Teh Gov has an allstar grade A whitness already lined up. You see my point?

[tritonman]

Wow, how in the hell would this not be considered"hearsay" and not admissable.?

[Geolibertarian]

Are Church Confessions Safe?

Bottom line: whatever wasn't "safe" to do in Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia probably isn't "safe" to do in what used to be "America."

And who do we thank for this?

Lesser evil voters:

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=81509.msg959150#msg959150

[Kilika]

Well, they've already sold out their congregations, so I guess next they'll sell themselves for an expert witness fee. 

[Constitutionary]

A Priest or a Pastor that hears a confession cannot be subpeanoed by a court of law.

This has been legally well established.

[Geolibertarian]

A Priest or a Pastor that hears a confession cannot be subpeanoed by a court of law.

This has been legally well established.

It's been equally well established that a U.S. President cannot use taxpayer money to invade a foreign nation without at least consulting Congress beforehand.

Yet that didn't stop either Obama or Bush before him from doing whatever the hell he wanted anyway, did it?

Time to wake up and smell the Nazi empire that used to be "America."

[masterofthemoon]

They have never been safe. The vatican wields extreme control over certain catholic politicians by bugging the confessionals and using them as blackmail, particularly in Italy.

[Constitutionary]

It's been equally well established that a U.S. President cannot use taxpayer money to invade a foreign nation without at least consulting Congress beforehand.

Yet that didn't stop either Obama or Bush before him from doing whatever the hell he wanted anyway, did it?

Time to wake up and smell the Nazi empire that used to be "America."

You are right but what Bush & Obama did on the national level Priests and Pastors won't do on the state level.  The Judicial Branches on the states' level haven't succumb to Globalism yet....

[Dok]

They have never been safe. The vatican wields extreme control over certain catholic politicians by bugging the confessionals and using them as blackmail, particularly in Italy.

That is the whole purpose of the Babylonian/catholic confessional. You do not need any man, as man cannot forgive sins. We can go straight to Jesus on this.

[DAVIDE MTL]

That is the whole purpose of the Babylonian/catholic confessional. You do not need any man, as man cannot forgive sins. We can go straight to Jesus on this.

I hate to be the sound of reason and to disturb the party but sometimes I wonder if you guys have actually read  a bible,
 John 20:21-23
Then Jesus said to them again,Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so I send you. and when he had said this. he breathed on them,and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose sins you shall forgive , they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

So you must confess your mortal sins to a traditional Catholic priest, which isn't easy to find these days. So technically these days I would agree that for the most part with today's church's, confession isn't safe, and most are invalid.

[tritonman]

Don't worry davy your not the voice of reason as you feared. But then you already knew that when you failed on the same attmpt at hoodwinking about priest in that other thread. LOL, You don't give up, I'll give you that.  Priest and apostles are two entirely different creatures.  ONe represented Christ the other a babylonian cult that Christ will overcome.  Perhaps you should read the bible instead of offering such tripe to others.

[Dok]

I hate to be the sound of reason and to disturb the party but sometimes I wonder if you guys have actually read  a bible,
 John 20:21-23
Then Jesus said to them again,Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so I send you. and when he had said this. he breathed on them,and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose sins you shall forgive , they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

So you must confess your mortal sins to a traditional Catholic priest, which isn't easy to find these days. So technically these days I would agree that for the most part with today's church's, confession isn't safe, and most are invalid.

That's to each other, not to some man for the absolvment of sin. If i sin against you like steal your rake. i should seek your forgiveness, and it is up to you to forgive or not. That forgiveness does not absolve me from the sin of stealing the rake or the thought of it. That can only come from the Lord. No man, be it apostle or catholic fish head priest can forgive any sin. It is a reiteration on Matt 5.

Catholic's distortin Gods Word for 2000 years... soon to end...

[Kilika]

So you must confess your mortal sins to a traditional Catholic priest,

Salvation is only through a catholic priest? May God have mercy on you!

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6 (KJB)

[EvadingGrid]

Not more catholic bashing...

[Dok]

Not more catholic bashing...

Whos bashing catholics?

So we cant post truth anymore? oh thats right...

[tritonman]

Not more catholic bashing...

Please show us the bashing so we will know what to look for.

[tritonman]

Let the catholics bash away, we are able to withstand their attacks, and they are amusing.

[Kilika]

38   And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 
39   But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. 
Acts 5:38,39 (KJB)

[DAVIDE MTL]

That's to each other, not to some man for the absolvment of sin. If i sin against you like steal your rake. i should seek your forgiveness, and it is up to you to forgive or not. That forgiveness does not absolve me from the sin of stealing the rake or the thought of it. That can only come from the Lord. No man, be it apostle or catholic fish head priest can forgive any sin. It is a reiteration on Matt 5.

Catholic's distortin Gods Word for 2000 years... soon to end...

Out of all your distortions of the Bible you have posted this could very well be the biggest...it is so far from what Christ teached that it leaves me speechless, while this will probably fall on deaf ears I write nonetheless for others who care about the truth

Jesus says that whoever's sins you forgive they are forgiven, and whoever's sins you retain, they are not forgiven. Nothing could be more clear. The Apostles could only determine which sins to forgive and which sins to forgive if they had heard a confession of sins. This passage proves that Jesus instituted confession to priests.

AS SON OF MAN,JESUS HAD POWER ON EARTH TO FORGIVE SINS AND HE CAN AND DID TRANSFER THAT POWER TO OTHERS

even though the meaning of John 20:23 is obvious,there's another point that must be noted in this regard. In Matthew 9:6-8 we read
"But (Jesus saith) that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy) arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house...But when the multitudes saw it,they marvelled, and glorified God, who had given such power to men."
Jesus was both God and man, but notice that this passage emphasizes that He had authority as the Son of man to forgive sins. Since Jesus had authority to forgive sins as the Son of man-as  is also made clear in Mt 28:18, when He says that He has been given all power in Heaven and Earth-then He can transfer that authority to others. Look at John 20-21 again

[tritonman]

That is a new low I agree davy, but on your part not Dok's. lol
I suppose if popes can claim to be the vicar of Christ, you thought there would be no problem claiming that priests are apostles.   You were wrong of course.

[DAVIDE MTL]

That is a new low I agree davy, but on your part not Dok's. lol
I suppose if popes can claim to be the vicar of Christ, you thought there would be no problem claiming that priests are apostles.   You were wrong of course.

so are you part of the same cult as Dok cuz it seems you are giving different answers, you are saying the Apostles were given the power to forgive sins but not priests where as Dok had some other ridiculous notion ...my question is if Jesus set up a Church would the priests not follow in the tradition of the Apostles...or should they follow some other man made tradition fromthe church of trotman?

[Kilika]

my question is if Jesus set up a Church would the priests not follow in the tradition of the Apostles

Jesus did set up a body of believers calle "churches", starting with the first 12, called apostles, and there were after that another 70 or so, and so on as it grew and the gospel spread.

The mistake you make is thinking that there is priests, and then there are "lay persons", which is in TOTAL contradiction, and fabrication by the catholic cult for the love of money, to sound doctrine. ALL believers are equal within the body of Christ, as we are "one in Christ". Real believers sit and reign WITH Jesus Christ. I will bow to no man except "the man Christ Jesus".

The hiearchy of the catholic cult is a fabrication of man, and not in scripture at all.

Instead of humbling yourselves, you have exhalted yourselves and taken upon titles and made merchandise of the people, and you WILL be abased.

[DAVIDE MTL]

Jesus did set up a body of believers calle "churches", starting with the first 12, called apostles, and there were after that another 70 or so, and so on as it grew and the gospel spread.

The mistake you make is thinking that there is priests, and then there are "lay persons", which is in TOTAL contradiction, and fabrication by the catholic cult for the love of money, to sound doctrine. ALL believers are equal within the body of Christ, as we are "one in Christ". Real believers sit and reign WITH Jesus Christ. I will bow to no man except "the man Christ Jesus".

The hiearchy of the catholic cult is a fabrication of man, and not in scripture at all.

Instead of humbling yourselves, you have exhalted yourselves and taken upon titles and made merchandise of the people, and you WILL be abased.

your cult is a fabrication of man

Matthew 18:16-18


But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

 17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

[chris jones]

 Why do we need a middle man?  Go strait to the boss, on bended knee and an open heart.
 The holy spirit, ho come I don't hear much about this this, wasn't this a promise from the Christ. If not,, how about a heads up.
   PS. We hear all kinds of folks taking God's name and J.Christ in vain, how many take the name of the holy spirit in vain, ever wonder why? I know there is scripture in this regard and I have a feeling you guys are aware of it.

[DAVIDE MTL]

Why do we need a middle man?  Go strait to the boss, on bended knee and an open heart.
 The holy spirit, ho come I don't hear much about this this, wasn't this a promise from the Christ. If not,, how about a heads up.
   PS. We hear all kinds of folks taking God's name and J.Christ in vain, how many take the name of the holy spirit in vain, ever wonder why? I know there is scripture in this regard and I have a feeling you guys are aware of it.

I'm not against talking to the boss directly, the thing is if you look at the old testament for starters ,one had to go to the priest to be forgiven, I could give you examples from the book of Leviticus also.
In Numbers 5:14-16 we read
"if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled...Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her...And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord."

In the New testament we have John 20:21-23
"Then said Jesus to them again,Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so i send you. And when he had said this, he breathed on them,and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: Whose sins you shall forgive,they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain,they are retained."

Some zealots on this site have massacred this passage to interpret it as some nonsensical meaning because they just can't stand the fact the Catholic teaching is the correct one. The truth is they are lazy,it's much easier to say a little confession in private then it is to open yourself up to a priest. I was that way too when I didn't know better.
The Church has taught that priests, in hearing confessions, stand in the place of Christ. They are not a barrier to Christ, but an avenue, a conduit of His reconciliation.

[tritonman]

I'm not against talking to the boss directly,

Caught you telling a LIE once again little davy.  Very naughty.  It really takes balls to say what you said as your lie is shown by yourself later in the same passage lol...
You are just to stupid to understand what you just said and that is hillarious.

[chris jones]

 We are all God's children, though some have been lost to the other side. Free will is the base and regs of human existance.
Some are desperate to be led, to conform to ideoligy as interpreted by those in high places.
 I admit to being a simple life form on this planet, I have attempted to rightly divide the word and in all honesty have found that interpretations vary according to the leadership which in some cases has proven to be corrupted.
 Example-Church-The house of the navalites, its difficult to beleive a church divided over the conflict that Adam was born without a naval or with one, but it happened, the church split over this issue.. Interetations and the divisions will allways be with us.
 That said, I'll stick to my form of worship, I'm not a new worlder, don't use crytall balls, nor worship idols, I simply pray from what I beleive is my heart and soul, if it be a sin then consider me a sinner and on the road to hell.
 The path to God for me , is simple, as I am basically a guy who has felt the sting of the reality in which we exist, whats that tunes verse, "I was blind but now I see".  I have no right to throw stones or declare my form of worship is the only true one, nor does anyone else in my humble oppinion.  Any sinner (for lack of a better term) who comes to a knowledge of God is on the right path, we all know deep down right from wrong, its a question of facing the inner truth.
 
 

[DAVIDE MTL]

Caught you telling a LIE once again little davy.  Very naughty.  It really takes balls to say what you said as your lie is shown by yourself later in the same passage lol...
You are just to stupid to understand what you just said and that is hillarious.

No you are too stupid to understand that praying to God everyday and going through a priest for confession,especially for mortal sins doesn't contradict, but you are probably too stupid to understand what I just wrote so what's the point...stupid.

[tritonman]

 
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