Remove killer Andrew JAckson from the $20?

[cowman000]

There are some people that want to remove jackson from the $20

Remove Jackson....
www.removejackson.com


There is a petition here...

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-united-states-government-remove-andrew-jackson-for-the-20


what do you think?

[Modzilla_Kicker]

Well, one thing's for sure, which is that if u count on listening on just Mr. Alex Color Blind Jones 6 days a week/884 hrs a year, u can bet ur bottom dollar that u will be kept in absolute pitch-black darkness regarding real history from an unbiased perspective, let alone from the cultural and emotional perspective of the conquered people. What's the difference between this nazi and some zionazi stealing lands and mass murdering ppl for the sake of their 'republic' or 'nation of israel' or whatever national supremacy motive they come up with? They surely are loyal to their own kind, but are the definition of evil when it comes to dealing with outsiders. I find the argument that the us constitution was not written to include non-whites more plausible than ever, if these were the kind of ppl that were among its framers. Moreover, it would make AJ 's argument that these were simply porch masons, hence righteous ppl at heart, seems more of the whitewashing and spinning and doctoring of history in favor of certain races that we've become accustomed to.

[Brocke]

According to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, [there was a] reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900.

[...]


native american smallpox plague

To address this issue properly we must begin with the most important reason for the Indians’ catastrophic decline—namely, the spread of highly contagious diseases to which they had no immunity. This phenomenon is known by scholars as a"virgin-soil epidemic"; in North America, it was the norm.

The most lethal of the pathogens introduced by the Europeans was smallpox, which sometimes incapacitated so many adults at once that deaths from hunger and starvation ran as high as deaths from disease; in several cases, entire tribes were rendered extinct. Other killers included measles, influenza, whooping cough, diphtheria, typhus, bubonic plague, cholera, and scarlet fever. Although syphilis was apparently native to parts of the Western hemisphere, it, too, was probably introduced into North America by Europeans.

About all this there is no essential disagreement. The most hideous enemy of native Americans was not the white man and his weaponry, concludes Alfred Crosby,"but the invisible killers which those men brought in their blood and breath." It is thought that between 75 to 90 percent of all Indian deaths resulted from these killers.

11,763,000 estimated total deaths

8,822,250 to 10,586,700 from disease not direct murder.

This leaves

1,176,300 to 2,940,750 Native Americans that died from causes other than disease.

Remember this is between the years 1500 and 1900.


corpses Lakota Sioux Indians

Indians Conflicts & Removals 1776-1973
(1973) Wounded Knee II - 2
(1890) Wounded Knee - 178
(1864) Sand Creek Massacre - 200
(1862) Dakota War of 1862 - 38 prisoners executed
(1876) Battle of Little Big Horn - 136 (high estimate)
(1838) Cherokee Removal - 4,000
(1817-58) Seminole Wars I,II, & III - 1475 (likely high as 10,000)
(1831) Choctaw Removal - 2,500
(1812) Red Stick War of the Muscogee or Creek- 3,000
(1791) Battle of the Wabash - 21
(1830) Indian Removal Act



Between 1812 - 1838
19,500 Native Americans killed

Andrew Jackson (1767–1845)
President from  - March 4, 1829 to March 4, 1837

At most as Acting President he is responsible for an estimated 19,500 Native American deaths.


Now let look at another president in comparison...



Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882–1945)
President - March 4, 1933 to April 12, 1945

1931 to 1940 - Famine killed 7,394,000 people in USA



ref.
1. http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html
2. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Native_Americans_were_killed_by_the_US_government#ixzz1kGheMitt
3. http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/19-05-2008/105255-famine-1/

[WLGarrison]

Chief Junaluska, who saved Jackson’s life at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend, was among the veterans of Horseshoe Bend removed to Oklahoma. At the time of the removal he reportedly made the comment:
"If I had known Jackson would remove the Cherokee from our ancestral lands, I would have never saved him that day on the Tallapoosa River."  http://www.tennesseehistory.com/class/horseshoe.htm

A lot of Native American history and resources can be found at this site http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/program/

[WLGarrison]

According to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, [there was a] reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900.

[...]


native american smallpox plague

To address this issue properly we must begin with the most important reason for the Indians’ catastrophic decline—namely, the spread of highly contagious diseases to which they had no immunity. This phenomenon is known by scholars as a"virgin-soil epidemic"; in North America, it was the norm.

The most lethal of the pathogens introduced by the Europeans was smallpox, which sometimes incapacitated so many adults at once that deaths from hunger and starvation ran as high as deaths from disease; in several cases, entire tribes were rendered extinct. Other killers included measles, influenza, whooping cough, diphtheria, typhus, bubonic plague, cholera, and scarlet fever. Although syphilis was apparently native to parts of the Western hemisphere, it, too, was probably introduced into North America by Europeans.

About all this there is no essential disagreement. The most hideous enemy of native Americans was not the white man and his weaponry, concludes Alfred Crosby,"but the invisible killers which those men brought in their blood and breath." It is thought that between 75 to 90 percent of all Indian deaths resulted from these killers.

11,763,000 estimated total deaths

8,822,250 to 10,586,700 from disease not direct murder.

This leaves

1,176,300 to 2,940,750 Native Americans that died from causes other than disease.

Remember this is between the years 1500 and 1900.


corpses Lakota Sioux Indians

Indians Conflicts & Removals 1776-1973
(1973) Wounded Knee II - 2
(1890) Wounded Knee - 178
(1864) Sand Creek Massacre - 200
(1862) Dakota War of 1862 - 38 prisoners executed
(1876) Battle of Little Big Horn - 136 (high estimate)
(1838) Cherokee Removal - 4,000
(1817-58) Seminole Wars I,II, & III - 1475 (likely high as 10,000)
(1831) Choctaw Removal - 2,500
(1812) Red Stick War of the Muscogee or Creek- 3,000
(1791) Battle of the Wabash - 21
(1830) Indian Removal Act



Between 1812 - 1838
19,500 Native Americans killed

Andrew Jackson (1767–1845)
President from  - March 4, 1829 to March 4, 1837

At most as Acting President he is responsible for an estimated 19,500 Native American deaths.


Now let look at another president in comparison...



Franklin D. Roosevelt (1882–1945)
President - March 4, 1933 to April 12, 1945

1931 to 1940 - Famine killed 7,394,000 people in USA



ref.
1. http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html
2. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Native_Americans_were_killed_by_the_US_government#ixzz1kGheMitt
3. http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/19-05-2008/105255-famine-1/

Hi Brocke, do you have a better source than Pravda for the 7,394,000 dead in an American famine?

[Georgiacopguy]

Well, one thing's for sure, which is that if u count on listening on just Mr. Alex Color Blind Jones 6 days a week/884 hrs a year, u can bet ur bottom dollar that u will be kept in absolute pitch-black darkness regarding real history from an unbiased perspective, let alone from the cultural and emotional perspective of the conquered people. .

I've noticed you've used this phrasing several tiemso f late...Are you not a fan of Alex?

[Brocke]

Researcher: Famine Killed 7 Million in U.S. During “Great Depression”
http://www.infowars.com/researcher-famine-killed-7-million-in-us-during-great-depression/

American Holocaust 1 of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO-eVe2xJZs
The Dust Bowl, stock market crash and Great Depression resulted in the deaths of an estimated 7.5 million Americans...


Of course you could always just stick with the standard text book version if you like...

The Library of Congress > Teachers > Classroom Materials > Presentations and Activities > Timeline

The Great Depression began in 1929 when, in a period of ten weeks, stocks on the New York Stock Exchange lost 50 percent of their value. As stocks continued to fall during the early 1930s, businesses failed, and unemployment rose dramatically. By 1932, one of every four workers was unemployed. Banks failed and life savings were lost, leaving many Americans destitute. With no job and no savings, thousands of Americans lost their homes. The poor congregated in cardboard shacks in so-called Hoovervilles on the edges of cities across the nation; hundreds of thousands of the unemployed roamed the country on foot and in boxcars in futile search of jobs. Although few starved, hunger and malnutrition affected many.

http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/timeline/depwwii/depress/

[Modzilla_Kicker]

I've noticed you've used this phrasing several tiemso f late...Are you not a fan of Alex?

I used to believe everything aj said was not just his own spin, as so much of what passes off as news reports or fair and balance analysis.. AND i used to listen almost exclusively to him, until i started noticing a clear pattern of bias against or for certain things that i knew wasn't like he was constantly portraying them to be.. For ex, his bias in his portrayal of the obvious talmudic jewishness of most conspiracies in the world. So, by blatantly omitting to point out this commonality in so many spheres where they have fraudulently taken over, through masonry or otherwise, u cannot possibly get the real and impartial truth from him exclusively, and this needs to be made known, especially to the confused newbies out there that have lost faith in the presstitute and whoring media outlets.. Another one of the points that he spins a lot and which i take personal offence at is the growing number of converts to Islam in the US, which every times he ever mentions he make it out to be something that only low IQ ex-con do when in prison under threat of being abused by gangs. And i know that many of the conversions are the fruits of good and honorable and virtuous ppl like ex-pastor Yusuf Estes, who has preached extensively in US prisons and helped in many conversions, which makes aj's claim not only defamatory, but such an established pattern only points to deep-rooted ethnocentrism that drive one to lie by omission, misrepresentation and intentionally avoidinb deeper research before casting jugements making blanket accusations, which free speech should not be used for, esp for s.o. that claims to be an impartial researcher.

[CJ Wrigley]

There are some people that want to remove jackson from the $20

Remove Jackson....
www.removejackson.com


There is a petition here...

http://www.change.org/petitions/the-united-states-government-remove-andrew-jackson-for-the-20


what do you think?

I think that these people lack a clear knowledge on some of the things that Jackson did and lack an understand of relations with the Native Americans. I've studied a little into it and honestly I can see early on that it seems like there were a lot of cultural misunderstandings and differences that just made things more complex (i.e. some tribes not having a concept of property rights). That being said though I think that President Jackson would be happy to be taken off the $20 FEDERAL RESERVE Note...seeing as he brought down the national bank during his presidency. If they took him off for that I'd be all for it, however, I doubt that would happen as keeping him on just adds insult to a dead man.

[scary]

You know, some of us that on the frontlines of the story every day, protesting, organizing, campaigning for certain candidates.... let me tell you. I'm getting real tired of the Armchair Activists arguing every single damn thing to the core.

The reality of history is, that no one or thing is perfect, not this Republic, not a lot of things throughout our nation's history or other nation's history.

I always appreciate Jackson because he understood the threat of a Central Bank in the country, he is famous for saying "I killed the bank".... the central bank attempt of his day.... on his death bed.

I am glad that I have access to this new information, it appears that a lot of people have died due to his actions, I can't support that.


However,

Let me tell you one thing, if everyone in this thread, doesn't hit the streets, and get their ass out of the comfortable armchair in front of the comfortable computer and get busy working on a quest for freedom.... (Campaigning, Burning DVD's, Organizing clubs, ect.) Then you are aiding future events like the Indian Removal act to occur again, we are facing an attack on our liberty and personal safety. The amount of destruction that is about to be unleashed on the American Republic is untold, there are no words to express the extent of it.

So get your ass out and do something in the real world.

[Kilika]

That being said though I think that President Jackson would be happy to be taken off the $20 FEDERAL RESERVE Note...seeing as he brought down the national bank during his presidency.

That alone is reason enough. He was, and is, the only US president to zero out the US debt. We owed noone, then he left office and it was all down hill from there! I think he would be offended actually to be on any banker currency, regardless of his past sins against humanity.

[WLGarrison]

Researcher: Famine Killed 7 Million in U.S. During “Great Depression”
http://www.infowars.com/researcher-famine-killed-7-million-in-us-during-great-depression/

American Holocaust 1 of 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I've2xJZs
The Dust Bowl, stock market crash and Great Depression resulted in the deaths of an estimated 7.5 million Americans...


Of course you could always just stick with the standard text book version if you like...

The Library of Congress > Teachers > Classroom Materials > Presentations and Activities > Timeline

The Great Depression began in 1929 when, in a period of ten weeks, stocks on the New York Stock Exchange lost 50 percent of their value. As stocks continued to fall during the early 1930s, businesses failed, and unemployment rose dramatically. By 1932, one of every four workers was unemployed. Banks failed and life savings were lost, leaving many Americans destitute. With no job and no savings, thousands of Americans lost their homes. The poor congregated in cardboard shacks in so-called Hoovervilles on the edges of cities across the nation; hundreds of thousands of the unemployed roamed the country on foot and in boxcars in futile search of jobs. Although few starved, hunger and malnutrition affected many.

depress/

I have a problem with your source's data.  There was no population loss during the alleged famine years of 1932 & 1933.  In 1931 the US population was 124,039,648, and in 1934 it was 126, 373, 773.  That's a population growth of 2,334,125 during the famine years.  There was a decrease in the population growth rate during the Great Depression, but that was due to a decreased birth rate.  In 1900 the birth rate was 4.0 children per mom.  It dropped to 2.2 kids during the Great Depression.  In the postwar years it started to climb again reaching a peak of 3.7 kids in 1957.  By the 1980's in had dropped to 1.8 and remains around 2.0 with minor variations.  Are we in a famine now; we have a Great Depression level birth rate?  Check the data  below.
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/national/totals/pre-1980/tables/popclockest.txt
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/national/totals/pre-1980/tables/popclockest.txt

July 1, 1939      130,879,718          1,054,779              0.81
 July 1, 1938      129,824,939          1,000,110              0.77
 July 1, 1937      128,824,829            771,649              0.60
 July 1, 1936      128,053,180            802,948              0.63
 July 1, 1935      127,250,232            876,459              0.69
 July 1, 1934      126,373,773            795,010              0.63
 July 1, 1933      125,578,763            738,292              0.59
 July 1, 1932      124,840,471            800,823              0.64
 July 1, 1931      124,039,648            962,907              0.78
 July 1, 1930      123,076,741          1,309,741              1.07

[WLGarrison]

I forgot to include the link about the birth rates.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2000pubs/p20-526.pdf

[Brocke]

I have a problem with your source's data.  There was no population loss during the alleged famine years of 1932 & 1933.  In 1931 the US population was 124,039,648, and in 1934 it was 126, 373, 773.  That's a population growth of 2,334,125 during the famine years.  There was a decrease in the population growth rate during the Great Depression, but that was due to a decreased birth rate.  In 1900 the birth rate was 4.0 children per mom.  It dropped to 2.2 kids during the Great Depression.  In the postwar years it started to climb again reaching a peak of 3.7 kids in 1957.  By the 1980's in had dropped to 1.8 and remains around 2.0 with minor variations.  Are we in a famine now; we have a Great Depression level birth rate?  Check the data  below.
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/national/totals/pre-1980/tables/popclockest.txt
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/national/totals/pre-1980/tables/popclockest.txt

July 1, 1939      130,879,718          1,054,779              0.81
 July 1, 1938      129,824,939          1,000,110              0.77
 July 1, 1937      128,824,829            771,649              0.60
 July 1, 1936      128,053,180            802,948              0.63
 July 1, 1935      127,250,232            876,459              0.69
 July 1, 1934      126,373,773            795,010              0.63
 July 1, 1933      125,578,763            738,292              0.59
 July 1, 1932      124,840,471            800,823              0.64
 July 1, 1931      124,039,648            962,907              0.78
 July 1, 1930      123,076,741          1,309,741              1.07

The Great Depression Decade "Official Story"



1930-40

The 1924 immigration law and the Great Depression kept immigration below traditional levels. And Americans greatly reduced their fertility to respond to the dire economic times, cutting total population growth for the decade nearly in half from each of the previous three decades.


The previous decade had growth of 16.6 million
The following decade had growth of 20.1 million

1930-40 saw a statisical drop in population growth of 7.6 million.

http://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/overpopulation/comparisons-20th-century-growth-decade.html


Now I'm no statistician but this could be where the loss of 7.4 million could be hidden.

In my opinion the argument for an American famine is compelling. Especially considering the fact the at this time the US government and the country's intelligentsia has a love affair going with Stalin. I would suggest reading "The forgotten Man" by Amity Shlaes. She is columnist for Bloomberg and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. A member of the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal. In 2003, she spent several months at the American Academy in Berlin as the JP Morgan Fellow for finance and economy. She writes of a Soviet Junket in 1927 where a select group of American elite were sent to Russia to "study" Communism and report on it. The resulting report was of glowing support for Stalin ans his USSR. 6 years later the Holodomor famine began.

The [Soviet] Junket of 1927
Evidence of socialist machinations within the American elite
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=156862.msg932831#msg932831


Soviet Famine of 1933 (Holodomor)

"This famine was deliberately engineered by the regime of Josef Stalin 79 years ago claimed millions of lives, mostly in Ukraine but also in some other parts of the Soviet Union. It is today considered one of the worst atrocities of the Soviet regime and a terrifying act of genocide. Even so, the famine of 1933 is relatively unknown. ... Estimates of how many people died in Stalin's engineered famine of 1933 vary. But they are staggering in their scale -- between 7 and 11 million people.
http://conservapedia.com/Joseph_Stalin#Famine_of_1933

The Great Famine-Genocide in Soviet Ukraine (Holodomor)
Yet, for decades, only Ukrainian émigré groups devoted significant attention to the famine. In official Soviet histories, meanwhile, the famine remained a "blank spot," described blandly as "difficulties on the grain-requisition front." What explains this silence? How could such a massive catastrophe provoke only ripples of concern among Western observers? Soviet efforts to cover up the famine come as no great surprise. Yet Western observers, in spite of widespread interest in the Soviet Union, wrote little of the famine.

Soviet Census (1937)
The Soviet Census held on January 6, 1937 was the most controversial of the censuses taken within the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The census results were destroyed and its organizers were sent to the Gulag as saboteurs because the census showed much lower population figures than anticipated...

...The multiple delays were most probably explained by the reluctance to show the catastrophic demographic results of collectivization and the Famine of 1932-1934, including the Holodomor.  The Soviet leadership had fanned great expectations of population growth...

...On the other hand, not registering deaths, especially those who died during the 1930s famines and prison inmates, was common. For example, during the Holodomor, starving peasants tried (despite the official ban) to escape to the cities where they could earn or beg for food. Many of them died in the streets. In 1933, the street-cleaning service of Kiev picked up 9,472 dead bodies. Only 3,991 of them were officially registered while 5,481 were disposed of without formal registration according to the instructions of the prosecutor's office...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Census_%281937%29


I would suggest, based on the evidence from the Holodomor famine, the the Soviet Junket of 1927, the obvious coverup by the Soviets of the population losses during the famine, the research by Boris Borisov and the coincidental fall in US population growth of 7.6 million, that there was indeed a famine in the US during the 1930's and millions died. The statistical coverup of this US famine is my conspiracy theory.

There is not much more I can say on the matter. If you are intent on hating Andrew Jackson because he is responsible for an estimated 20,000 Native Americans that is your prerogative. 6,500 of those were my ancestors, the Cherokee and Choctaw, yet I still believe that Jackson was one of the better presidents that we have had in office.

[WLGarrison]

I'm not a statistician either, and I don't know if 7.6 million deaths could be mathematically hidden without a lot of people noticing.  I kinda of doubt it because the dead had family & Friends.  I don't hate Jackson; I like his fiscal policies.  I just can't overlook his treatment of Native Americans

[ES]

Jackson killed Indians. Wow no shit. Unless you are from another country you should know this already.

[Georgiacopguy]

Jackson killed Indians. Wow no shit. Unless you are from another country you should know this already.

I know right. I doubt we could put anybody on the $20 bill and there not be somebody with some reason why it was not justified. But somebody has an OCD moment about something, and we never stop hearing about it.

[Brocke]

I'm not a statistician either, and I don't know if 7.6 million deaths could be mathematically hidden without a lot of people noticing.  I kinda of doubt it because the dead had family & Friends.  I don't hate Jackson; I like his fiscal policies.  I just can't overlook his treatment of Native Americans

As long as you are going to embrace the meme, let us not forget that Andrew Jackson had slaves.

Throughout his lifetime Jackson may have owned as many as 300 slaves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson


But then so did the Cherokee that suffered on the Trail of Tears.

The Indian Removal Act of 1830 led to the Trail of Tears. About 17,000 Cherokees — along with approximately 2,000 black slaves owned by Cherokees — were removed from their homes. The number of people who died as a result of the Trail of Tears has been variously estimated. American doctor and missionary Elizur Butler, who made the journey with one party, estimated 4,000 deaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history#United_States_of_America


It is easy for us to sit in judgement on the the men of the past. You do know that Native Americans used to kill and enslave each other long before the "white man" did.