Pope openly calls for world government

[Jordan]

IMO, A4T is correct.  The 1st beast of Rev 13 is the religio-political system of Papal Rome, which is also called "the little horn" of Dan 7:8, both portray the same characteristics of this system, ex. :

-"blasphemy" against God (Biblical definition:  ability to forgive sin, claim prerogatives of God)
-"wears out the saints" (no other power murdered more Christians)
-"thinks to change times and laws" (changed the 10 commandment law)
-ruled for 1260 years (RCC reigned b/w 538AD - 1798AD)

The very fact that the beast is "worshipped" denotes a religious entity.  But this beast is unique in light of it's religious qualities but also possesses political aspects as well, hence, the description "diverse".  The previous beasts before it were strictly political or secular.

No other kingdom/power matches this beast power of Dan and Rev the way the Roman Catholic Church does. It's a perfect match! Many of the great reformers knew this truth also.

That would be interesting except the..... "bible" says it's a king / kingdom not a religious entity. 5 kingdoms have fallen not 5 papal systems or popes, they had a lot more then 5. So it fails the reality test right there. Caesar and many other leaders would demand worship and the roman catholic stooges can't turn on themselves and be alive to gloat afterwards as foretold in Revelation so that really doesn't make sense. No other power matches America and UK - none and the papal system is a pedophilic whore that rides on top of the political system pretending to be light.

So I doubt it.

[Freeski]

Not relevant, this is a chilhood thing. When I was about 7 years of age, a buddy of mine said to me his dad told him the dragon-the beast will controll the world.
 His dad had a huge glove and we began looking at it, Kid stuff, but what we both said at the same moment, GEEE look at the USA, it looks like a dragon.
  Kid stuff, I better shut the Frig up, could be allzhiemers begining.

Old and wise baby!

[All4truth]

Not relevant, this is a chilhood thing. When I was about 7 years of age, a buddy of mine said to me his dad told him the dragon-the beast will controll the world.
 His dad had a huge glove and we began looking at it, Kid stuff, but what we both said at the same moment, GEEE look at the USA, it looks like a dragon.
  Kid stuff, I better shut the Frig up, could be allzhiemers begining.

yeah, the US is the beast with 2 horns like a lamb and speaks as a dragon.  The US was seen everywhere as a great Christian nation, but the more it grew the more it began to speak as a dragon.  Now it as turned to dragon like behavior.  They will enforce the laws and rules of the first beast.  It's just starting now, with all the wars, watch where this will go.

Rev 13:11   ¶   And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.


Rev 13:12       And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.


Rev 13:13       And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,


Rev 13:14       And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


Rev 13:15       And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


Rev 13:16       And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:


Rev 13:17       And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


Rev 13:18       Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

[Dok]

the US is not mentioned anywhere in Revelations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

[larsonstdoc]

the US is not mentioned anywhere in Revelations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

  True statement.
  
  It's REVELATION. Not Revelations.

  I know---AJ still says Revelations.

[Conspiracy Center]

IMO, A4T is correct.  The 1st beast of Rev 13 is the religio-political system of Papal Rome, which is also called "the little horn" of Dan 7:8, both portray the same characteristics of this system, ex. :

-"blasphemy" against God (Biblical definition:  ability to forgive sin, claim prerogatives of God)
-"wears out the saints" (no other power murdered more Christians)
-"thinks to change times and laws" (changed the 10 commandment law)
-ruled for 1260 years (RCC reigned b/w 538AD - 1798AD)

The very fact that the beast is "worshipped" denotes a religious entity.  But this beast is unique in light of it's religious qualities but also possesses political aspects as well, hence, the description "diverse".  The previous beasts before it were strictly political or secular.

No other kingdom/power matches this beast power of Dan and Rev the way the Roman Catholic Church does. It's a perfect match! Many of the great reformers knew this truth also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nns01lfrT3o#t=29m49s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlMz2Jo6zMA

[All4truth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nns01lfrT3o#t=29m49s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlMz2Jo6zMA

Exactly.  

[Overcast]

the US is not mentioned anywhere in Revelations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

Can't watch that at the moment - but in some opinions - the US and the British Empire of history are one in the same, and I could see why it could easily be seen that way to someone that isn't really concerned with the political specifics of the 'British Empire' and it's colonies - even the ones that revolted and declared independence.

Our culture is still very largely British: Language, Architecture, Legal Structure, etc.

[Dok]

Can't watch that at the moment - but in some opinions - the US and the British Empire of history are one in the same, and I could see why it could easily be seen that way to someone that isn't really concerned with the political specifics of the 'British Empire' and it's colonies - even the ones that revolted and declared independence.

Our culture is still very largely British: Language, Architecture, Legal Structure, etc.

its neither the British empire either. dont fall for the machinations of Rome.

[America2]

I'm confused - so if the 1st beast is the 1260 year reign of Papal Rome, and the false prophet is America right after(until present day), then will there still be a final 7 year tribulation with a OWG head(s)?

Also, George Washington died a Catholic, believe it or not.

[Jordan]

the US is not mentioned anywhere in Revelations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

Neither is the pope , antichrist or anthing else , however if you look at Daniel and Revelation you'll see they are talking about world powers. Who is the world power today? It's anglo / american. There's no mistaking that unless you are mislead.

[Dok]

Neither is the pope , antichrist or anthing else , however if you look at Daniel and Revelation you'll see they are talking about world powers. Who is the world power today? It's anglo / american.

america trampled on the saints? America is a religous system?

Rev 17:8   The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;  

America existed before? it was and is not?

its not hard to figure out people, the end times beast system must meet EVERY prophecy. you cannot pick and choose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

That vid explains a lot. You dont have to watch all of it, just the first half.

Neither is the pope , antichrist or anthing else

as the system no, as the Woman that is riding the beast, meaning the one that controls and directs it, yep, sure is.

[Jordan]

america trampled on the saints? America is a religous system?

Who do you think the Saints are? Some think they are saints themselves, others think it's only those in history however, they are not completed being "Sealed" according to the bible so they are some that still exist and if this is so then yes America has done evil to them and will do more before it's all over.

England has throughout history done it's share.

AND remember that the beast is world powers from the begining of time till TODAY, it just so happens that the last world power is now ruling (American / UK) So yes the beast has throughout the ages murdered the sants and Jesus as well. What world power was there to kill Jesus? The 6th, Rome.

Rev 17:8   The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;  

America existed before? it was and is not?

You're not talking about the same beast - read it again it's the 8th king that comes from the original beast. That is the scarlet colored beast that turns on babylon and destroys her, and notice that is the woman that is riding on the back of the beast. So if the beast is the papal system and the woman the pope the beast turns on her and kills the pope? what nonsense is that?

its not h
ard to figure out people, the end times beast system must meet EVERY prophecy. you cannot pick and choose.

Of course and it does meet them all but first you have to have a clear understanding of what is actually being said in the scriptures rather then just designing something likeable that isn't there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

That vid explains a lot. You dont have to watch all of it, just the first half.

as the system no, as the Woman that is riding the beast, meaning the one that controls and directs it, yep, sure is.

No, just as it doesn't say "America" it doesnt say the "pope or antichrist". Thats something you personally are hanging on it without any scriptural reference to back it. And if you look back in revelations you find who it is.

I'll watch the video.

[Jordan]

In Daniel he speaks of 4 world powers that would come to pass on the earth and even names some of the leaders and what would happen to them. These are not only recorded in the Bible but in secular history, which is one reason many historians want to believe that the book of Daniel was written much later then it actually was, because it was overwhelmingly accurate.

Before Daniels time there were two world powers pertaining to God people Egypt and Assyria. If you add that to the 4 Daniel spoke of that is 6 world powers that would come to be.

The angel in Revelation tells john the following:

Revelation 17:9-10
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Five have fallen? Five what? Popes? No. At the time of this being written John was living in the Roman empire which was the 6th world power. Hence the Angel said to John, “Five have fallen and one is”

“One is” being the Roman Empire of Johns time. Since there was NO papal in Johns time, you should probably revisit that notion again.

From Daniel to Revelation they are without any question talking about world powers, not religious organizations. There's no one here that can deny Daniel was talking about world powers with out having their sanity questioned.

The next world power discussed was to come out of a little horn – history tells the tale here, the next world power was England and by proxy the U.S. Who currently share that dominate world power title. Who can do battle with the beast? Ask yourself if the Vatican where to do war with the world leaders what would happen? You're about to find out.


Other relevant information.

Who is Babylon the great? Symbolically, false religion is Babylon. That would include the Catholics and papal system, islam, you name it... It's the world empire of false religion.

Revelation 17:11:

 The symbolic scarlet-colored beast “springs from” the seven heads; that is, it is born from, or owes its existence to, those heads of the original “wild beast . Yet another thing you are not considering by taking scriptures out of context.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


In Revelation it is this Scarlet-colored beast is something that springs out of the 7th world power or government and itself resembles a world power, hence the 8th king.

So we have scriptures that point to something being and then not and then being again that is itself  forged from current world powers that is dressed up to be like an 8th world power.

Ring any bells? How about The league of nations that came from the 7th world power and then “was not” but was promoted yet again to fulfill prophecy in the form of the U.N. To become the scarlet-colored beast. Notice that the scarlet-colored beast “is also itself an eighth king.” Thus, the United Nations today is designed to look like a world government.

If you keep reading in the bible you'll find that it is the Scarlet-colored beast that turns on and destroys Babylon the great , the whore or harlot , the empire of false religion. She is the one riding the back of governments has stated in Revelations.

Revelation 17:15,16.


In short, the notion that the beast is Rome, the papal system or any other religions doesn't stand up to scriptural review.  Especially since from Daniel to Revelation it actually states in English that the beast are kings and kingdoms – that is if you have wisdom, I'd guess if you don't you'd skip right over that point of interest. No offense meant.

Revelation 17:8-11
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

[Dok]

If you add that

and there we go. If we add to Gods word we can come up with anything we want it to be.

[All4truth]

The beast doesn't destroy the whore, the 10 kings do.

Rev 17:12       And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Rev 17:16       And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

[Dok]

Who do you think the Saints are? Some think they are saints themselves, others think it's only those in history however, they are not completed being "Sealed" according to the bible so they are some that still exist and if this is so then yes America has done evil to them and will do more before it's all over.

The Saints are the true Church, and only 1 entity that meets all chriteria has consitantly persecuted the Saints and still do and will do so again in the future. and its not America. 

[Jordan]

The beast doesn't destroy the whore, the 10 kings do.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Did you happen to notice that the 10 horns are on the beast? "ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast" They are a part of the beast.

and if you don't skip over scriptures it starts to make sense Rev 17:12-13:

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. They give their power or authority (since they are not a kingdom) to the beast and the beast kills the harlot.

[Jordan]

The Saints are the true Church, and only 1 entity that meets all chriteria has consitantly persecuted the Saints and still do and will do so again in the future. and its not America.  

Yeah? Explain to me scripturally, by verse how the scriptures we just talked about fit your theory? Were all about learning here right? And I'm not being sarcastic. I would honestly like to know how you  get there from scriptures.

[Conspiracy Center]

[All4truth]

Did you happen to notice that the 10 horns are on the beast? "ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast" They are a part of the beast.

and if you don't skip over scriptures it starts to make sense Rev 17:12-13:

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. They give their power or authority (since they are not a kingdom) to the beast and the beast kills the harlot.

Horns are armies they are 10 kings who work for the beast, but they hate the whore.  the beast is a kingdom, the kingdom of Rome, the whore is the Catholic church that is driving the Roman beast.  Rome never fell it just changed hands from the Ceasars pagan Rome, to the pope Religious Rome.  This beast may be the black pope and his Jesuit army.  There are many things that only by researching can we actually find out, otherwise it's all hidden.

[Conspiracy Center]

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Revelation 17:10)


Revelation 17:4
[4] And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:






The medal below of Pope Innocent XI was struck in 1680, the 4th year of his reign. On the reverse side is FIDES representing the Catholic Church. She is holding the golden cup of the Mass and a cross. The inscription is from the Latin Vulgate Bible, Ecclesiasticus 40:12, and means fidelity shall stand forever.



Papal Rome's symbolism of FIDES apparently originated with ancient Pagan Rome. Above is a strikingly similar Roman Denarius, with FIDES holding military standards, a common theme on coins from ancient Rome, depicting a military faithful to the reigning emperor.

Revelation 17:9
[9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven  mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The Eternal City of Rome, headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church. Look in almost any encyclopedia and you will find that Rome is known as the city of seven hills, or seven mountains. These seven mountains are the Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Cælian (Coelian/Celio), Aventine and Palatine, highlighted in yellow below.




The official "cathedra" or seat of authority for the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, is not in St. Peter's Basilica on Vatican Hill, but it is actually in the Basilica of St. John Lateran (above), which is a short distance to the southeast of the Coliseum and Roman Forum, on the opposite side of Rome from the Vatican. Located on the Coelian (Celio/Cælian) Hill, one of the seven hills of Rome (Rev 17:9), St. John Lateran dates back to Rome's emperor Constantine, who donated the building to the Bishop of Rome in the 4th century. It is the oldest church in Christendom and so lays claim to the title of the "mother church of the world".

Revelation 17:18 
[18] And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

[angel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nns01lfrT3o#t=29m49s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlMz2Jo6zMA

amazing videos! thanks

[Brocke]

Facts about the Vatican

• The age of consent (can legally have sex) in the Vatican State is 12 years of age. The lowest age for any western nation.¹

• The Vatican State has more criminal cases per capita than any other part of the world, 1.5 cases per person despite security of one Swiss guard for every four citizens.²

• In 2010 the Vatican moved to meet international demands for more financial transparency following an investigation into the Vatican bank for violation of money-laundering rules.³


Ref.
1. http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm
2. http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,460967,00.html
3. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1066140.stm

[America2]

Horns are armies they are 10 kings who work for the beast, but they hate the whore.  the beast is a kingdom, the kingdom of Rome, the whore is the Catholic church that is driving the Roman beast.  Rome never fell it just changed hands from the Ceasars pagan Rome, to the pope Religious Rome.  This beast may be the black pope and his Jesuit army.  There are many things that only by researching can we actually find out, otherwise it's all hidden.

I got your pms, just FYI.

Have a question for you guys - not trying to debate with you about this, but if Rev 13 is talking about the 1260 year reign and current America, then do you think we will have a short-lived OWG with Satan's throne leading the way? For let's say 7 years?

Again, not trying to debate here, but just asking if you guys think a short-lived OWG will be emerged that the Vatican, Builderbergers, etc are pushing for?

[angel]

That would be interesting except the..... "bible" says it's a king / kingdom not a religious entity.

The fourth beast of Daniel 7 was the Roman Empire; "and behold a fourth beast...and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns".  The passage tells us why it was diverse; it was not overcome by a fifth world-ruling empire. It fell from within. It was divided. The nations of both western and eastern Europe are the remains of the old Roman Empire.

Then Dan 7 tells what happened after Rome was divided; another "little horn" arose.  And it was diverse even still, as the ten horns or nations of Rome were political, this "little horn" was religious.  Granted, the Bible does not say this "little horn power has a religious AND a political influence".  I believe there is good reason.  It is because this system is NOT religious in it's true sense, however it does claim the prerogatives of one, which is why it is so colorfully depicted as a counterfeit, and there is ample description as to this false system and it's dual power to enforce it's position. 

For instance when it is described as having "eyes" of a man.  Eyes in the Bible denote wisdom and understanding.  Because this beast has eyes of a man however, it substitutes human wisdom in place of divine Truth.

And because it holds this false system above that of Truth, it "persecutes the saints of the most high", and oppresses those who do not accept its authority. It defends its traditions and persecutes those who do not conform.

In Dan 8, the Bible continues to describe what this power, based on human wisdom, would do to the Truth of God's word;  "and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered". 

Let's ask ourselves, what power arose by destroying three of the 10 tribes into which pagan Rome was divided (Daniel 7:? Which power arose out of Rome after the division of the Roman Empire from A.D. 351 to A.D. 476 as a religious, not a political, power (Daniel 7:? Which religious power arose from Rome in these early centuries and had a man as its visible head or leader (Daniel 7:8, 24)? Which one made boastful, presumptuous claims about its authority (Daniel 7:25)? Which has persecuted the people of God, has reigned for 1,260 years, and attempted to change God's law (Daniel 7:25)?

There is only one power in history that could possibly fit into this clear delineation-papal Rome. Let us note how it fits Daniel's description: history reveals that Rome's power base expanded gradually as it uprooted that which stood in its way. It is part of human nature to want to crush opposition in an attempt to solidify one's power base. It became dominant by bringing about the destruction of three of the tribes (Heruli, A.D. 493; Vandals, A.D. 534; and Ostrogoths, A.D. 538. See Gibbons' The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, vol. 4, chapters 39, 40.)

[angel]

I got your pms, just FYI.

Have a question for you guys - not trying to debate with you about this, but if Rev 13 is talking about the 1260 year reign and current America, then do you think we will have a short-lived OWG with Satan's throne leading the way? For let's say 7 years?

Again, not trying to debate here, but just asking if you guys think a short-lived OWG will be emerged that the Vatican, Builderbergers, etc are pushing for?

It's possible.  I tend to lean towards a OWR idea. They are currently attempting a union of all faiths (at least in token) through the ecumenical movement.  At the very least there will be a uniting of the different "faiths" under the pretense of peace.  That's not to say all must convert to RCC.  They realize that would be nearly impossible.  Therefore Pope is yielding previous standards and opening it's arms to all who will accept the foundation of her system.  Anyone who does not conform will be considered a rebel against this great cause, a heretic, you name it, and will be target for persecution.

IMO, the 1260 year reign refers to Papal Rome which ended with the deadly "wound" in 1798.  Then Rev 13 says a second beast arose (America).  So together with dragon, the beast and false prophet, this three-fold counterfeit trinity will deceive the nations.  People will have lots of false systems to choose from. Then for the grand finale, Satan's last attempt to deceive, he himself will appear on the scene, claiming to be the Christ.  This impersonation will be so convincing, miracles performed, healings, fire from heaven, etc., that most will believe it.  But the Bible says, if anyone says he is here or he is there believe it not.  We're told to not be surprised when it happens, "no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2Cor 11:14

Your right though, the governments of the world are indeed joining forces also.  The evil men are forming "confederacies".  Isa 8:11-13  They are making every attempt to do just that.  Hopefully Christ will return before that happens.

[All4truth]

I got your pms, just FYI.

Have a question for you guys - not trying to debate with you about this, but if Rev 13 is talking about the 1260 year reign and current America, then do you think we will have a short-lived OWG with Satan's throne leading the way? For let's say 7 years?

Again, not trying to debate here, but just asking if you guys think a short-lived OWG will be emerged that the Vatican, Builderbergers, etc are pushing for?

We are seeing the rise now, we will soon have the second beast making the whole world worship the first beast, this is what the Bible says, so that's what I believe.  I don't know how long the prosecuting time will be but the Lord said he will shorten it, unless there would be no flesh left.  

We could think that the US would never ever do this, but the Lord has already said, that the US would make the whole world worship the first beast, vatican.  I believe this is what we are waiting for, since this will be the beginning of persecutions.  When the church leaders decide that they don't want a seperation of church and state anymore, because we need to enforce moral laws.  Which this is already being proposed and wanted by many.  

[angel]

5 kingdoms have fallen not 5 papal systems or popes, they had a lot more then 5.

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space..And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."


This is one of the more difficult text in Rev.  I myself have not studied it enough to make a conclusion.  This is what I do think:  The "one is" is Rome as John was speaking present tense in his day.  At this time it was pagan Rome.  I don't really share in the theory of this referring to the pope's specifically.  I lean more towards them fitting a bigger profile of idolatrous, controlling powers or spiritual Babylon them being those wordly powers in their cause against the people of God and his Truth.

The "harlot" presides over peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.  This tells us that the harlot’s influence is worldwide, through her connection to the beast.  In this sense, I believe this will be a  one-world religion.

The harlot is utterly connected to the beast and his government.  There is a relationship.  If this sounds unthinkable, remember that throughout history, religion - not true Christianity - has often been the willing servant and supporter of tyrants.

I could be wrong but I believe the eighth will be Satan himself, as he is of the seven and was the puppet master working behind the scenes all along.  I would'nt mind hearing what Conspiracy Center thinks?



 

 
 

[chris jones]

the US is not mentioned anywhere in Revelations.
/quote] Hi Dok, the US didn't exist that I know of a few thousand years back, I'm not trying to be funny nor sarcasitic. To be clear, I was a child, looking at the globe with a friend and the basic structure to us in our infancy appeared to be in the shape of a dragon, please don't take this out of context.
            You are of deep faith and a very religuos man, I most certainly respect that.
My take is simple, Why if the Christs message is peace, the golden rule, etc, etc, Are we, a Christian based-or at the very least considered to be -not in an uproar., defending Christs message.
  I personelly hold the pulpit bangers liable for this fence siting and justification of our Gov, not all but the GREAT majority.
 Looking back the Holy R Chruch did the same thing under the banner of the Christ, true or false.
  A nation doesn't spread Christs message with genocide and torture, in fact it perverts it. Humans in other nations looked upon America as a Christian base, Under God, indivisable. I don't see the majority of our preachers abiding by this  sacred concept. A bible in one hand and a bomb in the other has diminshed the context.

[Dok]

Yeah? Explain to me scripturally, by verse how the scriptures we just talked about fit your theory? Were all about learning here right? And I'm not being sarcastic. I would honestly like to know how you  get there from scriptures.

A WOMAN RIDES THE BEAST
by Dave Hunt

[The following is chapter 6 of A Woman Rides the Beast: The Roman Catholic Church and the Last Days, copyright 1994 by Dave Hunt, Harvest House Publishers, Eugene, Oregon 97402; order from The Berean Call, P.O. Box 7019, Bend, OR 97708. $10 + $2 S/H.]

"The woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth ... Here is the mind which hath wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth"
—Revelation 17:18,9.

A woman rides the beast, and that woman is a city built on seven hills that reigns over the kings of the earth! Was ever in all of history such a statement made? John immediately equates the readers' acceptance of this revelation with "wisdom." We dare not pass over such a disclosure casually. It merits our careful and prayerful attention.

Here is no mystical or allegorical language but an unambiguous statement in plain words: "The woman...is that great city. There is no justification for seeking some other hidden meaning. Yet books have been written and sermons preached insisting that "Mystery Babylon" is the United States. That is clearly not the case, for the United States is Sodom, considering the honor now given to homosexuals; but it is definitely not the Babylon that John sees in this vision. The woman is a city.

Furthermore, she is a city built on seven hills. That specification eliminates ancient Babylon. Only one city has for more than 2000 years been known as the city on seven hills. That city is Rome. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "It is within the city of Rome, called the city of seven hills, that the entire area of Vatican State proper is now confined" (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Thomas Nelson, 1976, s.v. "Rome").

There are, of course, other cities, such as Rio de Janeiro, that were also built on seven hills. Therefore, John provides at least more characteristics to limit the identification to Rome alone. We will examine each one in detail in subsequent chapters. However, as a preview of where we are going, we will limit them now and discuss each one briefly. As we shall see, there is only one city on the earth which, in both historical and contemporary perspectives, passes every test John gives, including its identification as Mystery Babylon. That city is Rome, and more specifically, Vatican City.

Even Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from 1st Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further:

"Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18] and in extrabiblical works such as Syblling Oracles (5, 159f.), and Apocalypse of Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).

"Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that `it is said that Peter's first epistle ... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon" (Karl Keating, Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on "Romanism" by "Bible Christians," Kgnatius Press, 1988, p. 200).

As for "Mystery," that name imprinted on the woman's forehead is the perfect designation for Vatican City. Mystery is at the very heart of Roman Catholicism, for the words "Mysterium Fidev pronounced at the alleged transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ to the enigmatic apparitions of Mary around the world. Every sacrament, from baptism to extreme unction, manifests the mysterious power which the faithful must believe the priests wield, but for which there is no visible evidence. Rome's new Catechism explains that liturgy "aims to initiate souls into the mystery of Christ (It is 'mystagogy.')" and that all of the Church's liturgy is "mystery" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, The Wanderer Press, 1994, para. 1075).

WHO IS THE WHORE?

The first thing we are told about the woman is that she is a "whore" (Revelation 17:1), that earthly kings "have committed fornication" with her (verse 2) , and that "all the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (verse 3). Why would a city be called a whore and be accused of having committed fornication with kings? Such an indictment would never be made of London or Moscow or Paris--or any other ordinary city. It wouldn't make sense.

Fornication and adultery are used in the Bible in both the physical and the spiritual sense. Of Jerusalem God said, "How is the faithful city become a harlot!" (Isaiah 1:21). Israel, whom God had set apart from all other peoples to be holy for His purposes, had entered into unholy, adulterous alliances with the idols-worshiping nations about her. She had "committed adultery with stones and with stocks [idols] (Jeremiah 3:9); "and with their idols have they committed adultery" (Ezekiel 23:37). the entire chapter of Ezekiel 16 explains Israel's spiritual adultery in detail, both with heathen nations and with their false gods, as do many other passages.

There is no way that a city could engage in literal, fleshly fornication. Thus we can only conclude that John, like the prophets in the Old Testament, is using the term in its spiritual sense. The city, therefore, must claim a spiritual relationship with God. Otherwise such an allegation would be meaningless.

Though it is built on seven hills, there would be no reason to accuse Rio de Janeiro of spiritual fornication. It makes no claim of having a special relationship with God. And though Jerusalem has that relationship, it cannot be the woman riding on the beast, for it is not built on seven hills. Nor does it meet the other criteria by which this woman is to be identified.

Against only one other city in history could a charge of fornication be leveled. That city is Rome, and more specifically Vatican City. She claims to have been the worldwide headquarters of Christianity since its beginning and maintains that claim to this day. Her pope enthroned in Rome claims to be the exclusive representative of God, the vicar of Christ. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church, and in that too she is unique.

Numerous churches, of course, are headquartered in cities, but only one city is the headquarters of a church. The Mormon Church, for example, is headquartered in Salt Lake City, but there is much more to Salt Lake City than the Mormon Church. No so with Vatican City. It is the heartbeat of the Roman Catholic Church and nothing else. She is a spiritual entity that could very well be accused of spiritual fornication if she did not remain true to Christ.

IN BED WITH THE RULERS

Not only does Rome's pope call himself the vicar of Christ, but the Church he heads claims to be the one true Church and the bride of Christ. Christ's bride, whose hope is to join her Bridegroom in heaven, is to have no earthly ambitions. Yet the Vatican is obsessed with earthly enterprise, as history proves; and in furtherance of these goals it has been, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, engaged in adulterous relationships with the kings of the earth. That fact is acknowledge even by Catholic historians.

Christ said to His disciples, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you" (John 15:19). The Catholic Church, however, is very much of this world. Her popes have built an unrivaled worldwide empire of property, wealth, and influence. Nor is empire-building an abandoned feature of the past. We have already seen the Vatican II clearly states that the Roman Catholic Church today still ceaselessly seeks to bring under its control all mankind and all their goods.

Popes have long claimed dominion over the world and its peoples. Pope Gregory XI's papal bull or 1372 (In Coena Domini) claimed papal dominion over the entire Christian world, secular and religious, and excommunicated all who failed to obey the popes and to pay them taxes. In Coena was confirmed by subsequent popes and in 1568 Pope Pius V swore that it was to remain an eternal law.

Pope Alexander VI (1492-1503) claimed that all undiscovered lands belonged to the Roman Pontiff, for him to dispose of as he pleased in the name of Christ as His vicar. King John II of Portugal was convinced that in his Bull Romanus Pontifex the pope had granted all that Columbus discovered exclusively to him and his country. Ferdinand and Isabel of Spain, however, thought the pope had given the same lands to them. In May 1493 the Spanish- born Alexander VI issued three bulls to settle the dispute.

In the name of Christ, who had no place on this earth that He called his own, this incredibly evil Borgia pope, claiming to own the world, drew a north-south line down the global map of that day, giving everything on the east to Portugal and on the west to Spain. Thus papal grant, "out of the plenitude of apostolic power," Africa went to Portugal and to the America to Spain. When Portugal "succeeded in reaching India and Malaya, they secured the confirmation of these discoveries from the Papacy..." There was a condition, of course: "to the intent to bring the inhabitants...to profess the Catholic Faith" (Sidney Z. Ehler, John B. Morrall, trans. and eds., Church and State Through the Centuries, London, 1954, pp. 153-59; Hakluytus Posthumus, William Stansby for Henrie Fetherstone, London, 1625, as cited in Avro Manhattan, The Vatican Billions, Chino, CA, 1983, p. 90).

It was largely Central and South America which, as a consequence of this unholy alliance between church and state, had Roman Catholicism forced upon them by the sword and remain Catholic to this day. North America (with the exception of Quebec and Louisiana) was spared the dominance of the Roman Catholicism because it was settled largely by Protestants.

Nor have the descendants of Aztecs, Incas, and Mayas forgotten that Roman Catholic priests, backed by the secular sword, gave their ancestors the choice of conversion (which often meant slavery) or death. They made such an outcry when John Paul II in a recent visit to Latin America proposed elevating Junipero Serra (a major eighteenth-century enforcer of Catholicism among the Indians) to sainthood that the pope was forced to hold the ceremony in secret.

Christ said, "My kingdom is not of this world; otherwise my servants would fight." The popes, however, have fought with armies and navies in the name of Christ to build a huge kingdom which is very much of this world. And to amass their earthly empire they have repeatedly engaged in spiritual fornication with emperors, kings, and princes. Claiming to be the bride of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church has been in bed with godless rulers down through history, and these adulterous relationships continue to this day.

This spiritual fornication will be documented in detail later.

ROME EQUALS VATICAN

Some may object that it is Rome, and not that small part of it known as Vatican City, which is built on seven hills, and that the Vatican can hardly be called a "great city," Though both objections are true, the words "Vatican" and "Rome" are universally used interchangeably. Just as one would refer to Washington and mean the government that runs the United States, so one refers to Rome and means the hierarchy that rules the Roman Catholic Church.

Take for example a placard carried by a demonstrator outside the November 15-18, 1993, meeting in Washington D.C. of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops. Protesting any deviation from the pope's wishes, it read:

"ROME'S WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" (Our Sunday Visitor, December 5, 1993, p. 3).

Obviously by "Rome" it meant the Vatican. Such is the common usage. So closely are Catholicism and Rome linked that the Catholic Church is known as the Roman Catholic Church, or simply the Roman Church.

Moreover, for more that a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church exercised both religious and civil control over the entire city of Rome and its surroundings. Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) abolished the secular Roman Senate and placed the administration of Rome directly under his command. The Roman Senate that had governed the city under the Caesars had been known as the Curia Romana (Roman Curia). That name, according to the Pocket Catholic Dictionary, is now the designation of "the whole ensemble of administrative and judicial offices through which the Pole directs the operations of the Catholic Church" (John A. Hardon, S.J., Pocket Catholic Dictionary, Image Books [Doubleday], 1985, p 99).

The popes' authority even extended to large territories outside Rome acquired in the eighth century. At that time, with the help of a deliberately fraudulent document manufactured for the popes known as The Donation of Constantine, Pope Stephen III convinced Pepin, king of the Franks and father of Charlemagne, that territories recently taken by the Lombards from the Byzantines actually had been given to the papacy by the Emperor Constantine. Pepin routed the Lombards and handed to the pope the keys to some 20 cities (Revena, Ancona, Bologna, Ferrara, Iesi, Gubbio, etc.) and the huge chunk of land joining them along the Adriatic coast.

Dated 30 March 315, The Donation declared that Constantine had given these lands, along with Rome and the Lateran Palace, to the popes in perpetuity. In 1440 this document was proven to be a forgery by Lorenzo Valla, a papal aide, and is do recognized by historians today. Yet allegedly infallible popes continue for centuries to assert that The Donation was genuine and on that basis to justify their pomp, power, and possessions. That fraud is still perpetuated by and inscription in the baptistry of Rome's St. John Lateran, which has never been corrected.

Thus the Papal States were literally stolen by the popes from their rightful owners. The papacy controlled and taxed these territories and derived great wealth from them until 1848. At that time the pope, along with the rulers of most of the other divided territories of Italy, was forced to grant his rebellious subjects a constitution. In September 1860, over his raging protests, Pius IX lost all of the papal states to the new, finally united Kingdom of Italy, which left him, at the time of the First Vatican Council in 1870, still in control of Rome and its surroundings.

The point, exactly as John foresaw in his vision, a spiritual entity that claimed a special relationship with Christ and with God became identified with a city that was built on seven hills. That "woman" committed spiritual fornication with earthly rulers and eventually reigned over them. The Roman Catholic Church has been continuously identified with that city. As "the most definitive Catholic encyclopedia since Vatican II" declares:

"...hence, one understands the central place of Rome in the life of the Church today and the significance of the title, Roman Catholic Church, the Church that is universal, yet focused upon the ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Since the founding of the Church there by St. Peter, Rome has been the central of all Christendom" Our Sunday Visitor's Catholic Encyclopedia, 1991, p. 842).

WEALTH FROM ILL-GOTTEN GAIN

The incredible wealth of this woman caught John's attention next. She was dressed "in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Revelation 17:4). The colors of purple and scarlet once again identify the woman with both pagan and Christian Rome. These were the colors of the Roman caesars with which the soldiers mockingly robed Christ as "King" (see Matthew 27:28 and John 19:2,5), which the Vatican took to itself. The woman's colors are literally still the colors of the Catholic clergy! The same Catholic Encyclopedia quoted above states"

Cappa Magna: "A cloak with a long train and a hooded shoulder cape. . .[it] was purple wool for bishops; for cardinals, it was scarlet watered silk (for Advent, Lent, Good Friday, and the conclave, purple wool); and rose watered silk for Gaudete and Laetare Sundays; and for the pope, it was red velvet for Christmas Matins, red serge at other times."

Cassock (also Soutand): "The close-fitting, ankle-length robe worn by the Catholic clergy as their official garb. ...The color for bishops and other prelates is purple, for cardinals scarlet" (Ibid., pp. 175, 178).

The "golden cup [chalice] in her hand" again identifies the woman with the Roman Catholic Church. Broderick's edition of The Catholic Encyclopedia declared of the chalice: "[It is] the most important of the sacred vessels...[It] may be of gold or silver, and if the latter, then the inside must be surfaced with gold" (Robert Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, Thomas Nelson, 1976, pp. 103-4). The Roman Catholic Church possess many thousands of solid gold chalices kept in its churches around the world. Even the bloodstained cross of Christ has been turned to gold and studded with gems in reflection of Rome's great wealth. The Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The pectoral cross [suspended by a chain around the neck and worn over the breast by abbots, bishops, archbishops, cardinals, and the pope] should be made of gold and ... decorated with gems..." (Ibid., p. 466).

Rome has practiced evil to gather her wealth, for the "golden cup" is filled with "abominations and filthiness." Much of the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church was acquired through the confiscation of the property of the pitiful victims of the Inquisitions. Even the dead were exhumed to face trial and property was taken from their heirs by the Church. One historian writes:

"The punishments of the Inquisition did not cease when the victim was burned to ashes, or immured for life in the Inquisition dungeons. His relatives were reduced to beggary by the law that all his possessions were forfeited. The system offered unlimited opportunities for loot. ...

"This source of gain largely accounts for the revolting practice of what has been called `corpse-trials.' ... That the practice of confiscating the property of condemned heretics was productive of many acts of extortion, rapacity and corruption will be doubted by no one who has any knowledge either of human nature or of historical documents. ... no man was safe whose wealth might arouse cupidity, or whose independence might provoke revenge" (William Shaw Kerr, A Handbook of the Papacy, London: Marshall, Morgan & Scott, p. 241).

Most of Rome's wealth has been acquired through the sale of salvation. Untold billions of dollars have been paid to her by those who thought they were purchasing heaven on the installation plan for themselves or loved ones. The practice continues to this day--blatantly where Catholicism is in control, less obviously here in the United States. No greater deception or abomination could be perpetrated. When Cardinal Cajetan, sixteenth-century Dominican scholar, complained about the sale of dispensations and indulgences, the Church hierarchy was indignant and accused him of wanting "to turn Rome into an uninhabited desert, to reduce the Papacy to impotence, to deprive the pope...of the pecuniary resources indispensable for the discharge of his office" (J.H. Ignaz von Dollinger, The Pope and the Council, London, 1869, pp. 307-08).

In addition to such perversions of the gospel which have led hundreds of millions astray, there are the further abominations of corrupt banking practices, laundering of drug money, trading in counterfeit securities, and dealings with the Mafia (fully documented in police and court records), which the Vatican and her representatives around the world have long employed. Nino Lo Bello, former Business Week correspondent in Rome and Rome bureau chief for New York Journal of Commerce, writes that the Vatican is so closely allied with the Mafia in Italy that "many people...believe that Sicily...is nothing more than a Vatican building" (Nino Lo Bello, The Vatican Empire, Trident Press, 1968, p. 167; see also David A. Yallop, In God's Name, Bantam Books, 1984; Richard Hammers, The Vatican Connection, Penguin Books, 1983).

The Roman Catholic Church is by far the wealthiest institution on earth. Yes, one hears from Rome periodic pleas for money--persuasive appeals claiming that the Vatican cannot maintain itself on its limited budget and needs monetary assistance. Such pleas are unconscionable ploys. The value of innumerable sculptures by such masters as Michelangelo, paintings by the world's greatest artists, and countless other art treasures and ancient documents which Rome possesses (not only at the Vatican but in cathedrals around the world) is beyond calculation. At the World Synod of Bishops in Rome, England's Cardinal Heenan proposed that the Church sell some of these superfluous treasures and give the proceeds to the poor. His suggestion was not well-received.

Christ and His disciples lived in poverty. He told His followers not to lay up treasure on this earth but in heaven. The Roman Catholic Church has disobeyed that command and has accumulated a plethora of riches without equal, of which "the Roman Pontiff is the supreme administrator and steward. ..." (James A. Coriden, Thomas J. Green, Donald E. Heintschel, eds., The Code of Canon Law, Paulist Press, 1985, Canon 1273). There is no church, no city which is a spiritual entity, no religious institution past or present which even comes close to possessing the wealth of the Roman Catholic Church. A recent newspaper article described only a fraction of that treasure at one location:

"The fabulous treasure of Lourdes [France], whose existence was kept secret by the Catholic Church for 120 years, has been unveiled. ...Rumors have been circulating for decades about a priceless collection of gold chalices, diamond-studded crucifixes [a far cry from the bloodstained cross on which Christ died], silver and precious stones donated by grateful pilgrims.

"After an indiscreet remark by their press spokesman this week, church authorities agreed to reveal part of the collection...[some] floor-to- ceiling cases were open to reveal 59 solid gold brooches, many encrusted with precious stones.

"Almost hidden by the other treasures in the "Crown" of Notre Dame de Lourdes, made by a Paris goldsmith in 1876 and studded with diamonds.

"Church authorities say they cannot put a value on the collection. `I have no idea,' says Father Pierre-Marie Charriez, director of Patrimony and Sanctuaries. `It is of inestimable value.' ...

Across the road is a building housing hundreds of [antiques] ecclesiastical garments, robes, mitres and sashes--many in heavy gold thread. ...

"`The Church itself is poor.' insists Father Charriez. `The Vatican itself is poor.' (The European, April 9-12, 1992, p. 1). [The treasure described here is only part of that which is kept in one location, the small town of Lorudes, France!]

THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS

The more deeply one probes into the history of the Roman Catholic Church and its current practices, the more impressed one becomes with the amazing accuracy of the vision John received centuries before it would all be lamentable reality. John's attention is drawn to the inscription boldly emblazoned upon the woman's forehead: 'MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Revelation 17:5) Sadly enough, the Roman Catholic Church fits the description "mother of harlots and abominations" as precisely as she fits the other. Much of the cause can be traced to the unbiblical demand that her priests be celibates.

The great apostle Paul was a celibate and recommended that life to others who wanted to devote themselves fully to serving Christ. He did not, however, make it a condition for church leadership as the Catholic Church has done, thereby imposing an unnatural burden upon all clergy that very few could bear. On the contrary, he wrote that bishop should by "the husband of one wife" (1 Timothy 3:2) and set the same requirement for elders (Titus 1:5,6).

Peter, whom the Catholics erroneously claim was the first pope, was married. So were at least some of the other apostles. This fact was not the chance result of their having been married before Christ called them, but it was accepted as an ongoing norm. Paul himself argued that he had the right to marry like the rest: "Have we not power [Greek exousia, the right or privilege or authority] to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles and as the brethren [half-brothers, sons of Mary and Joseph] of the Lord, and as Cephas [Peter]?" (1 Corinthians 9:5).

The Roman Catholic Church, however, has insisted upon celibacy even though many popes, among them Sergius III (904-11), John X (914-28), John XII (955-63), Benedict V (964), Innocent VIII (1484-92), Urban VIII (1623-44), and Innocent X (1644-55), as well as millions of cardinals, bishops, archbishops, monks, and priests throughout history, have repeatedly violated such vows. Not only has celibacy made sinners of the clergy who engage in fornication, but makes harlots out of those with whom they secretly cohabit. Rome is indeed "the mother of harlots"! Her identification as such is unmistakable. No other city, church, or institution in the history of the world is her rival in this particular evil.

History is replete with sayings that mocked the church's false claim to celibacy and revealed the truth: "The holiest hermit has his whore" and "Rome has more prostitutes than any other city because she has the most celibates" are examples. Pius II declared that Rome was "the only city run by bastards" [sons of popes and cardinals]. Catholic historian and former Jesuit Peter de Rosa writes:

"Popes had mistresses of fifteen years of age, were guilty of incest and sexual perversions of every sort, had innumerable children, were murdered in the very act of adultery [by jealous husbands who found them in bed with their wives]. ...In the old Catholic phrase, why be holier than the pope?" (Peter de Rosa, Vicars of Christ: The Dark Side of the Papacy, Crown Publishers, 1988, pp. 396-97).

As for abominations, even Catholic historians admit that among the popes were some of the most degenerate and unconscionable ogres in all of history. Their numerous outrageous crimes, many of which almost beyond belief, have been recited by many historians from preserved documents that reveal the depths of papal depravity, some of which we will cover in later chapters. To call any of these men "His Holiness, Vicar of Christ" makes a mockery of holiness and of Christ. Yet the name of each one of these unbelievably wicked popes--mass murderers, fornicators, robbers, warmongers, some guilty of the massacre of thousands--is emblazoned in honor of the Church's official list of popes. These abominations that John foresaw not only occurred in the past but continue to this very day, as we shall see.

DRUNK WITH THE MARTYR' BLOOD

John next notices that the woman is drunk--and not with an alcoholic beverage. She is drunk with "the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus..." (Revelation 17:6). The picture is a horrible one. It is not merely her hands that are red with this blood, but she is drunk with it! The slaughter of innocents who, for conscience' sake, would not yield to her totalitarian demands has so refused and exhilarated her that she reels in ecstasy.

One thinks immediately of the Inquisitions (Roman, Medieval, and Spanish) which for centuries held Europe in their terrible grip. In his History of the Inquisition, Canon Llorente, who was the Secretary to the Inquisition in Madrid from 1790-1792 and had access to the archives of all the tribunals, estimated that in Spain alone the number of condemned exceeded 3 million, with about 300,000 burned at the stake (R.W. Thompson, The Papacy and the Civil Power, New York, 1876, p. 82). A Catholic historian comments upon events leading up to the suppression of the Spanish Inquisition in 1809:

"When Napoleon conquered Spain in 1808, a Polish officer in his army, Colonel Lemanouski, reported that the Dominicans [in charge of the Inquisition] blockaded themselves in their monastery in Madrid. When Lemanouski's troops forced an entry, the inquisitions denied the existence of any torture chambers.

"The soldiers searched the monastery and discovered them under the floors. The chambers were full of prisoners, all naked, many insane. The French troops, used to cruelty and blood, could not stomach the sight. They emptied the torture-chambers, laid gunpowder to the monastery and blew the place up" (De Rosa, op. cit., p. 172).

To wring out confessions from these poor creatures, the Roman Catholic Church devised ingenious tortures so excruciating and barbarous that one is sickened by their recital. Church historian Bishop William Shaw Kerr writes:

"The most ghastly abomination of all was the system of torture. The accounts of it cold-blooded operations make one shudder at the capacity of human beings for cruelty. And it was decreed and regulated by the popes who claim to represent Christ on earth. ...

"Careful notes were taken not only of all that was confessed by the victim, but of his shrieks, cries, lamentations, broken interjections and appeals for mercy. The most moving things in the literature of the inquisition are not the accounts of their sufferings left by the victims but the sober memoranda kept by the officers of the tribunals. We are distressed and horrified just because their is no intention to shock us" (Kerr, op. cit., pp. 239-40).

The remnants of some of the chambers of horror remain in Europe and may be visited today. They stand as memorials to the zealous outworking of Roman Catholic dogmas which remain in force today, and to a Church which claims to be infallible and to this day justifies such barbarism. They are also memorials to the astonishing accuracy of John's vision in Revelation 17. In a book published in Spain in 1909, Emelio Martinez writes:

"To these three million victims [documented by Llorente] should be added the thousands of Jews and Moors deported from their homeland. ... In just one year, 1481, and just in Seville, the Holy Office [if inquisition] burned 2000 persons; the bones and effigies of another 2000 ... and another 16,000 were condemned to varying sentences" (Emelio Martinez, Recuerdos [Memoirs] de Antano, CLIE, 1909, pp. 105-06).

Peter de Rosa acknowledges that his own Catholic Church "was responsible for persecuting Jews, for the Inquisition, for slaughtering heretics by the thousand, for reintroducing torture in to Europe as part of the judicial process." Yet the Roman Catholic Church has never officially admitted that these practices were evil, nor has she apologized to the world or to any of the victims or their descendants. Nor could Pope John Paul II apologize today because "the doctrines responsible for those terrible things still underpin his position" (De Rosa, op. cit., pp. 20-21). Rome has not changed at heart no matter what sweet words she speaks when it serves her purpose.

MORE BLOOD THAN THE PAGANS

Pagans Rome made sport of throwing to the lions, burning and otherwise killing thousands of Christians and not a few Jews. Yet "Christian" Rome slaughtered many times that number of both Christians and Jews. Beside those victims of the Inquisition, there were Huguenots, Albigenses, Waldenses, and other Christians who were massacred, tortured, and burned at the stake by the hundreds of thousands simply because they refused to align themselves with the Roman Catholic Church and its corruption and heretical dogmas and practices. Out of conscience they tried to follow the teachings of Christ and the apostles independent of Rome, and for that crime they were maligned, hunted, imprisoned, tortured, and slain.

Why would Rome ever apologize for or even admit this holocaust? No one calls her to account today. Protestants have now forgotten the hundreds of thousands of people burned at the stake for embracing the simple gospel of Christ and refusing to bow to papal authority. Amazingly, Protestants are now embracing Rome as Christian while she insists that the "separated brethren" be reconciled to her on her unchangeable terms!

Many evangelical leaders are intent upon working with Roman Catholics to evangelize the world by the year 2000. They don't want to hear any "negative" reminders of the millions of people tortured and slain by the Church to which they now pay homage, or the fact that Rome has a false gospel of sacramental works.

"Christian" Rome slaughtered Jews by the thousands--far more than pagan Rome ever did. The land of Israel was seen as belonging to Roman Catholic Church, not to the Jews. In 1096 Pope Urban Ii inspired the first crusade to retake Jerusalem from the Muslims. With the cross on their shields and armor, the Crusaders massacred Jews across Europe on their way to the Holy Land. Almost their first act upon taking Jerusalem "for Holy Mother Church" was to herd all of the Jews into the synagogue and set it ablaze. These facts of history cannot be swept under the carpet of ecumenical togetherness as though they never happened.

Nor can the Vatican escape considerable responsibility for the Nazi Holocaust, which was thoroughly known to Pius XII in spite of his complete silence throughout the war on the most important of subjects (E.g. Guenter Lewy, The Catholic Church and Hazi Germany, McGraw-Hill, 1964, pp. 300-04).

The involvement of Catholicism in the Holocaust will be examined later. Had the pope protested, as representatives of Jewish organizations and the Allied Powers begged him to do, he would have condemned his own church. The Facts are inescapable:

"In 1936, Bishop Berning of Osnabruch had talked with the Fuehrer for over an hour. Hitler assured his lordship there was no fundamental difference between National Socialism and the Catholic Church. Had not the church, he argued, looked on Jews as parasites and shut them in ghettos?

"`I am only doing,' he boasted, `What the church has done for fifteen hundred years, only more effectively.' Being a Catholic himself, he told Berning, he told Berning, he `admired and wanted to promote Christianity.'" (De Rosa, op. cit., p. 5; Lewy, op. cit., p. 111).

There is, of course, another reason why the Roman Catholic Church has neither apologized for not represented of these crimes. How could she? The execution of heretics (including Jews) was decreed by "infallible" popes.

The Catholic Church herself claims to be infallible, and thus her doctrines could not be wrong.

REIGNING OVER THE KINGS OF THE EARTH

Finally, the angel reveals to John that the woman "is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth" (Revelation 17:18). Is there such a city? Yes, and again only one: Vatican City. Popes crowned and deposed kings and emperors, exacting obedience by threatening them with excommunication. At the time of the First Vatican Council in 1869 J.H. Ignaz von Dollinger, Professor of Church History in Munich, warned that Pope Pius IX would force the Council make an infallible dogma out of "that pet theory of the Popes--that they could force kings and magistrates, by excommunication and its consequences, to carry out their sentences of confiscation, imprisonment, and death. ..." He reminded his fellow Roman Catholics of some of the evil consequences of papal political authority:

"When, for instance, [Pope] Martin IV placed King Pedro of Aragon under excommunication and interdict ... then promised indulgences for all their sins to those who fought with him and [tyrant] Charles [I of Naples] against Pedro, finally declared his kingdom forfeit ... which cost the two kings of France and Aragon their life, and the French the loss of an army" (Dollinger, op. cit., pp. 10-12).

Though John Paul II lacks the power to enforce such brutal claims today, his Church still retains the dogmas which authorize him to do so. And the practical effects of his power are no less than those of his predecessors, though exercised quietly behind the scenes. The Vatican is the only city which exchanges ambassadors with nations, and she does so with every major country on earth. Ambassadors come to the Vatican from every major country, including the United States, not out of mere courtesy but because of the pope is the most powerful ruler on earth today. Even President Clinton journeyed to Denver in August 1993 to greet the pope. He addressed him as "Holy Father" and "Your Holiness."

Yes, ambassadors of nations come to Washington D.C., to Paris, or to London, but only because the national government has its capital there. Nor does Washington, Paris, London, or any other city send ambassadors to other countries. Only Vatican City does so. Unlike any other city on earth, the Vatican is acknowledged as a sovereign state in its own right, separate and distinct from the nation of Italy surrounding it. There is no other city in history of which this has been true, and such is still the case today.

Only of the Vatican could it be said that a city reigns over the kings of the earth. The phrase "the worldwide influence of Washington" means the influence not of that city but of the United States, which has its capital there. When one speaks, however, of the influence of the Vatican around the world, that is exactly what is meant--the city and the worldwide power of Roman Catholicism and its leader the pope. Vatican City is absolutely unique.

FORGET A REBUILT BABYLON

Some suggest that the Vatican will move to Babylon in Iraq when it is rebuilt. But why should it? The Vatican has been fulfilling John's vision from its location in Rome for the past 15 centuries. Moreover, we have shown the connection to ancient Babylon which the Vatican has maintained down through history in the paganized Christianity it has promulgated. As for ancient Babylon itself, it wasn't even in existence during the past 2300 years to "reign over the kings of the earth." Babylon lay in ruins while pagan Rome and later Catholic Rome, the new Babylon, was indeed reigning over kings.

One eighteenth-century historian counted 95 popes who claimed to have divine power to depose kings and emperors. Historian Walter James wrote that Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) "held all Europe in his net" (Walter James, The Christian in Politics, Oxford University Press, 1962, p. 47). Gregory IX (1227-41) thundered that the pope was lord and master of everyone and everything. Historian R.W. Southern declared: "During the whole medieval period there was in Rome a single spiritual and temporal authority [the papacy] exercising powers which in the end exceeded those that had ever lain within the grasp of a Roman emperor" (R.W. Southern, Western Society and the Church in the Middle Ages, Vol. 2, Pelican History of the Church series, Penguin Books, 1970, pp. 24-25).

That the popes reigned over kings is an undisputed fact of history that we will more fully document later. That in so doing horrible abominations were committed, as John foresaw, is also indisputable. Pope Nicholas I (858-67) declared: "We [popes] alone have the power to bind and to loose, to absolve Nero and to condemn him; and Christians cannot, under penalty of excommunication, execute other judgment than ours, which alone is infallible." In commanding one king to destroy another, Nicholas wrote:

"We order you, in the name of religion, to invade his states, burn his cities, and massacre his people" (Cormenin, History of the Popes, p. 243, as cited in R.W. Thompson, op. cit., p. 368).

The qualifying information which John gives us under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for identifying this woman, who is a city, is specific, conclusive, and irrefutable. There is no city upon earth, past or present, which meets all of these criteria except Catholic Rome and now Vatican City. That inescapable conclusion will become increasingly clear as we proceed to uncover the facts.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/a_woman_rides_the_beast.htm

If you like i will give you a full pdf copy of the book. need mor einfo?

watch the first 5-6? parts of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8E9_V8r7y8&feature=player_embedded

Sorry but only 1 entity meets ALL criteria, and America isnt even close.

[Dok]

Yeah? Explain to me scripturally, by verse how the scriptures we just talked about fit your theory? Were all about learning here right? And I'm not being sarcastic. I would honestly like to know how you  get there from scriptures.

To summarize, let's look at all the identifying marks that the Roman Catholic Church is the little horn power of Daniel 7:

A Little horn      -      The Vatican is a little country

It comes up among the other horns      -      The Catholic Church came to power among the ten split kingdoms of Europe

It plucks up 3 of the other horns      -      The Catholic Church destroyed 3 kingdoms

It is diverse from the other horns      -      The Papacy (Catholic Church) is a religio-political power

It speaks great things against God      -      The Catholic Church speaks blasphemies against God

It wears out the saints      -      The Catholic Church persecuted and killed millions of Christians

It thinks to change times and law      -      The Catholic church thinks it can change the laws of God

It ruled for 1260 years      -      The Catholic Church reigned between 538AD - 1798AD

No other kingdom/power matches this little horn in Daniel 7 the way the Roman Catholic Church does. It's a perfect match! Many of the great reformers knew this truth also; John Wycliffe; John Huss; Martin Luther; William Tyndale; John Wesley, Ellen White. They pointed to the Catholic Church as being this little horn antichrist.

fit america into that please.

Even the woman that rides the beast, ie controlling the beast, fits Rome not america.

[All4truth]

To summarize, let's look at all the identifying marks that the Roman Catholic Church is the little horn power of Daniel 7:

A Little horn      -      The Vatican is a little country

It comes up among the other horns      -      The Catholic Church came to power among the ten split kingdoms of Europe

It plucks up 3 of the other horns      -      The Catholic Church destroyed 3 kingdoms

It is diverse from the other horns      -      The Papacy (Catholic Church) is a religio-political power

It speaks great things against God      -      The Catholic Church speaks blasphemies against God

It wears out the saints      -      The Catholic Church persecuted and killed millions of Christians

It thinks to change times and law      -      The Catholic church thinks it can change the laws of God

It ruled for 1260 years      -      The Catholic Church reigned between 538AD - 1798AD

No other kingdom/power matches this little horn in Daniel 7 the way the Roman Catholic Church does. It's a perfect match! Many of the great reformers knew this truth also; John Wycliffe; John Huss; Martin Luther; William Tyndale; John Wesley, Ellen White. They pointed to the Catholic Church as being this little horn antichrist.

fit america into that please.

Even the woman that rides the beast, ie controlling the beast, fits Rome not america.

Also, just to elaborate, the vatican wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini signs the Lateran Treaty giving the pope back his power.  At the time even the world considered the wound healed.







Cardinal Gasparri and Benito Mussolini (seated) after exchanging treaty ratifications
in the Hall of Congregations, the Vatican, June 7th, 1929.

[chris jones]

 The last refuge for scoundrells, hiding behind the cross, using God's name as if they are his loyal chosen ones here on earth.
Wars, assassinations, torture, all in God's name?
   I'm confused, we all know the history of the HRCC, its no secret and history repeats doesn't it.
What is not pointed out here is what about the average non catholic leadership, its one sided so far isn't it. I've said it before and I will stick with it, any preacher, minister, priest who claims to be a Christian, who leads their flock and doesn't speak of the realitys of this abomination taking place is a hypocrit.
  I have met some good clergy marching against the war, good people with honor and a conscience, I don't care if they had robes on or shorts, if they ran a church or cleaned its floors.
The trappings are universal, the edifices built, the wardrobes, the controll of mens minds using the basic need for man to seek God, therfor they will lead them.
  All followers of The Christ, in my opinion should be standing to the front of the halls of congress asking why, it would be a true global wake up call to see millions of Christians having a candlelight vigil in WDC.
Someone said take the letter out of the law and put it in your heart. If this be true then who the heck is following their hearts and who is leading? I respect an indivuals and have a high regard for all on this site, it stands to reason with all due respect the same is true for mine.
 
 
   

[Conspiracy Center]

http://www.amazingfacts.org/radio/bible-answers-live-question-archive/ctl/playmedia/mid/731/mdid/2495.aspx

[Conspiracy Center]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIKI9hV_Fto

http://www.bibleuniverse.com/study-tools/bible-study-guides/english/study-guide/iid/2-21/lng/en.aspx

[KazKru]

sure rings true if you've been following Fr. Malachi Martin over the years.

[All4truth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIKI9hV_Fto

http://www.bibleuniverse.com/study-tools/bible-study-guides/english/study-guide/iid/2-21/lng/en.aspx

Great stuff Conspiracy Center. Thank you

[Conspiracy Center]

-Washington in the Lap of Rome, by Justin Fulton, 1888, page 18

[Conspiracy Center]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWnpthv9T6o#t=04m24s

http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=128129

Tomorrow, 4 July, the United States of America marks Independence Day but few here in Malta are perhaps aware of the fact that the Knights of the Order of St John and a number of Maltese had played a concerted role in the American Revolutionary War − on the American side of the equation.

It is a little known fact that some 1,800 Maltese and Knights of the Order had enlisted in the French Navy to help the fledgling United States in its War of Independence. 

And, thanks to their seafaring acumen, the Maltese and the Knights, in fact, proved to be a critical element in ending the war with an American victory.

In 1781, with the help of the Maltese sailors, the French Navy defeated the British in the Battle of the Chesapeake. With the defeat, the British were unable to regroup or supply their troops. Consequently, and as a result of the victory at Chesapeake Bay, the American army forced the British surrender and the end of the war.

This and other priceless lore on the early relationship between the United States and Malta had been extensively researched by the late Dr Paul Cassar who, in 1976 on the occasion of the 200th anniversary of American Independence, had published his findings in the book Early Relations between Malta and the United States of America.

Such was America’s gratitude toward Malta for its assistance in its fight for freedom that American Founding Father Benjamin Franklin himself reserved a special award of America’s first medal, the Libertas Americana, to Grand Master Emmanuel de Rohan. In 1783, in his capacity as Ambassador to France, Franklin designed and minted the medal and gave all but one medal to French officials and members of the US Congress.

The only Libertas Americana medal given to another foreign official was that presented by Franklin to Grand Master de Rohan.

Franklin had sent the medal to Grand Master de Rohan to specifically thank him for his support in the revolution and, in the accompanying letter, Franklin had written, “I have the honour to address to Your Eminent Highness the medal which I have lately had struck. It is an Homage of gratitude, my Lord, which is due to the interest you have taken in our cause; and we no less owe it to your virtues and to your eminent highness wise administration of government.”

Franklin had also asked that the Grand Master allow American ships to come to Maltese ports. 

Grand Master de Rohan had replied positively to the effect that, “This monument of American liberty has a distinguished place in my cabinet. Whenever chance or commerce shall lead any of your citizens or their vessels into the ports of my island, I shall receive them with the greatest welcome.”

The correspondence marked the beginning of US-Maltese diplomatic relations, and an American diplomatic presence in Malta was established in 1796.

Unfortunately, Franklin’s original letter and the Libertas Americana medal awarded to Grand Master de Rohan have both been lost, despite a number of thorough searches made in the National Archives in Valletta. Luckily, the original letter from Grand Master de Rohan to Franklin still exists and is located at the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia.