Serious Question: Do Some Christians Go To Hell?

[Femacamper]

This is basically a Calvinism vs. Arminianism question. I consider myself a Calvinist, but am willing to hear arguments from both sides of the coin. Any opinions here?

[Dok]

no

[Femacamper]

no

That's kinda what I've thought, but some people interpret that segment in Revelation to be referring to Christians, at least according to semantics. So who will God spit out of his mouth?

[Dok]

That's kinda what I've thought, but some people interpret that segment in Revelation to be referring to Christians, at least according to semantics. So who will God spit out of his mouth?

Where does it say they are Christians? The passage sounds like today's churchianity. Many professing to be Christian, yet in name only. Ricj Warren is a perfect example, or the Pope.

Rev 3:14  And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15  I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16  So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17  Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19  As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Yet the Lord ends the passage with a rebuke to repent. Hopefully some will turn from their churchs beliefs and repent.

Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Femacamper]

The person who brought this up to me mentioned that it was from the original language text that he got the interpretation that the people referred to in this chapter were believers, but lukewarm.

[Dok]

The person who brought this up to me mentioned that it was from the original language text that he got the interpretation that the people referred to in this chapter were believers, but lukewarm.

  it always comes down to that kind of stuff. I dont like what the book says so ill change it. Yea, hath God said...

Do Christians go to hell?

Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

dont look like it, and you saying your a calvinist, while worshiping other gods should fully believe it is impossible for any Christian who is called to not get into heaven, and well you cant become a Christian with out being called correct? The passage in Rev is about lukewarm churches and how they are not going to heaven unless the repent. The sunday chuchianity people who believe they are christian have no idea what it means or what the Bible actually says. You ask the common churchianity person, how to get to heaven they will tell you its by being a good person.

and the word spue, that you said was spit, is more like vomit. The Lord shall "forceful expulsion" these people away from him. Not a very nice thought. being vomited away by the Lord.

[amazon]

Why not ?

Anyone see MiMi Rodgers & David Ducovney  in THE RAPTURE ?

I thought you needed sincere repentance,
sincere intention of no more committing that sin
for which you asked forgiveness,
and a sincere acceptance of God's loving forgiveness.

But hey !
I'm just a travelling seeker amidst God's many dimensions...
What do I know ?

I never believed you could get baptized,
then kept sinning over & over & over,
assured your seat in Heaven was reserved for you.

I thought you had to change your behaviour,
not just say "Thanks, Jesus !"

Otherwise,
you might as well buy one  or a dozen of those indulgence/ lottery tickets
like that OTHER denomination sell.

But...
I bet
Only God knows the answer to this question for sure.

[Dok]

I never believed

and there is your problem, until you do, you will never understand.

[Femacamper]

it always comes down to that kind of stuff. I dont like what the book says so ill change it. Yea, hath God said...

Do Christians go to hell?

Joh 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Good answer.

dont look like it, and you saying your a calvinist, while worshiping other gods

Not sure I follow you there. My God is GOD.

should fully believe it is impossible for any Christian who is called to not get into heaven, and well you cant become a Christian with out being called correct?

I'm missing your point in this run-on sentence. Break it down.

The passage in Rev is about lukewarm churches and how they are not going to heaven unless the repent. The sunday chuchianity people who believe they are christian have no idea what it means or what the Bible actually says. You ask the common churchianity person, how to get to heaven they will tell you its by being a good person.

Back in those days, to be a member of a church meant sacrifice, you quite often died for your faith, I kinda doubt they had a lot of churchians back then.

and the word spue, that you said was spit, is more like vomit. The Lord shall "forceful expulsion" these people away from him. Not a very nice thought. being vomited away by the Lord.

Yes, so back to my original point, and I am not arguing with you, more than anything, I just want to consolidate my own Calvinist viewpoint of once saved, always saved.

Do you have other Scriptures to back this up?

[amazon]

and there is your problem, until you do, you will never understand.

No DOK,

You got these roles confused...

God is the ONLY one who knows for sure...

NOT YOU!

Unless you happen to BE God,
which would explain a lot of your answers
in this forum.

             

[Geolibertarian]

http://30ce.com/jesusonhell.htm
http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

^^ Food for thought.

[amazon]

http://30ce.com/jesusonhell.htm
http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

^^ Food for thought.

First, let me thank you, GeoLib,
for posting such interesting sites.

I had read many times that Hell aka sheol
was actually the word for the place where those who die go.
No suffering, no fire and brimstone, just rest.

Second, if your post makes Dok wonder for one itty-bitty bit of a second of time,
that he might be wrong
about anything religious,
I will send you Reiki healing or prayer,
(your choice)
daily for the rest of your life.

Now, Reiki, Hell,
the good-will of an intelligent, open-minded, charming yet MODEST person overseas...
maybe to some these make no difference to you or me,
but they sure do to some we both know !

Thanks for expanding my mind in a way that enables me to become a better person.

Sincerely,

Amazon
x

[EvadingGrid]

and there is your problem, until you do, you will never understand.

Please enlighten us as to precisely which denominations doctrine we should believe.

[amazon]

and there is your problem, until you do, you will never understand.

Guess I must remain a deist until I meet the good Lord face to face.

Although those who proclaim themselves as Christians
while criticising others of the WRONG denomination
might just drive me over to the Society of Friends,
where no one thinks they are better than anyone else.

Betcha God is more likely to enjoy hanging out with a crowd
enjoying a good Sunday roast
than hearing" Alleluia ! You are the Greatest! "
sung every Sunday over & over !

I think God has to be beyond narcissism.

[One Revelator]

So I’m looking at the NT references to “hell”. Occurs 23 times in 23 verses. Some are translated as "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls:--grave, hell. However many references, particularly in context of warning, refer to an alley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerus., used (fig.) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:--hell.

I noted that “the (future) lake of fire” is different from Hades. (Rev 20:14). So could “gehenna” be this “lake of fire”? Both are considered “everlasting” or permanent according to the context. Whereas “Hades” is temporary.

[Lannister]

Where do non Christians go?  And is it all of them, or just some?  And where do the rest go?

[America2]

Where do non Christians go?  And is it all of them, or just some?  And where do the rest go?

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Femacamper]

http://30ce.com/jesusonhell.htm
http://30ce.com/developmentofhell.htm

^^ Food for thought.

Doesn't agree with Mark 9:48. I'm not unconvinced of hell as an eternal place of torment, meant for renegade angels, but also a place where unrepentant sinners will find themselves after judgment.

I know the JW's and other "alternative" religions try to propose this.

[amazon]

Listen to my old love, Nick Lowe.

His guess is as good as anyone's to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyI_KTnrN2s&feature=related

[donnay]

I believe there is everlasting life for those who know and accept Jesus Christ.  Now you have people that call themselves "Christians"--anybody can call themselves a "Christian," then with that in mind, I am sure many will be cast into hell for impersonating a Christian--per se.

2 Corinthians 11:15
It is therefore no great thing for his servants also to disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will be in accordance with their actions.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder. Satan, their master, can disguise himself as an angel of light.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of the false teachers--men who come to you in sheep's fleeces, but beneath that disguise they are ravenous wolves

IMHO, true salvation is as simple as the next two scriptures...

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...

The way to heaven is through the son.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[Lannister]

Wow that's got to really suck for those people who led wholesome loving lives and never heard of Christianity.  Hell must be just overflowing with those sinners.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Femacamper]

Wow that's got to really suck for those people who led wholesome loving lives and never heard of Christianity.  Hell must be just overflowing with those sinners.

We are all sinners. Any amount of good we do cannot compensate for the sin we have done. It's not karma and dharma, it's perfect or imperfect.

God is the only way.

[decemberfellow]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...

The way to heaven is through the son.

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

The true answer.

[amazon]

I think we should rename this thread


Serious Question: Do Dok & FEMA think ANY non-Christians EVER go to HEAVEN ?

[Dok]

I think we should rename this thread


Serious Question: Do Dok & FEMA think ANY non-Christians EVER go to HEAVEN ?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:  
Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.  


doesn't say of sacraments or rosaries or good works or wishful witchy thinking, it plainly says  NOT OF WORKS

Gal 5:19   Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,  
Gal 5:20   Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,  
Gal 5:21   Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


enjoy and contemplate.

[Femacamper]

I think we should rename this thread


Serious Question: Do Dok & FEMA think ANY non-Christians EVER go to HEAVEN ?

Only if God is a liar, Jesus is a joke and the Bible is bunk.

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&q=you+must+be+born+again

[Oldbluehat]

I feel "hell" has been confused with "the lake of fire" by many people.

The image in peoples minds at the thought of "hell" is actually the description of the lake of fire.

Rev 19:20  And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Rev 20:15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As for the thread title...no

However it should be noted that not all people who call themselves christian are christian.

[shipgeek]

I am no believer but I don't want to go to Hell just because Obama will be there.

 

[Kilika]

No matter who else may be there or end up there, you don't want to go there!

Thread answer? No. No Christians go to hell or the lake of fire.

But here's the real point of the question. It doesn't matter and the question is moot. Non-belevers usually don't believe in hell anyway. And believers are saved, so like I said, it's a moot point.

If you believe and are baptized, you are safe. If you don't believe and are not baptized with the Holy Ghost, your in BIG trouble and it won't matter what the details are of where you go! It WON'T be good and it will be an eternal life without God.

[Femacamper]

Exactly, get on the bandwagon to heaven, or ride the highway to hell. Only two choices.

[EvadingGrid]

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Oh dear....
Looks like a lot of the evangelicals and fundies are not gonna get to heaven after all...

LOL.
 

[Femacamper]

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Oh dear....
Looks like a lot of the evangelicals and fundies are not gonna get to heaven after all...

LOL.
 

Yes, this is an excellent point raised.

There are three main positions in soteriology (or the study of salvation):

1. Calvinism - once saved, always saved. Those who go to hell/the lake of fire never were saved.

2. Arminianism - can lose salvation if one misses the mark. Varying degrees here of opinion here.

3. Carminianism - a blend of the two (this is what me and my woman postulate currently) - once saved always saved, except if you commit the sin of apostasy and don't repent - that is to reject God completely).

I've been struggling a lot with this lately, because there are a lot of strongly believing Arminians that I respect out there, but I side more with the Calvinists by upbringing.

[All4truth]

You can lose salvation by out right rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ, and returning to your old way or maybe a new way of thinking.  Paul says Hbr 6:4       For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


Hbr 6:5       And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,


Hbr 6:6       If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Some will claim that they where not saved, but the text clear says, that they where partakers of the Holy Spirit and tasted/knew the things of God.  But they fell away.  Just like in Luke Jesus explains.

Luk 8:13       They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

We have to endure until the end, weither the end is our death, or the coming of the Lord, which ever one, the scriptures clearly says to endure until the end, to guard our faith, to let know one take it away. 

[Femacamper]

As far as I can understand, no one can take our salvation away except ourselves.

Back to the Calvinist take on this:

Some challenge the Calvinist doctrine based on their interpretation of the admonishments in the book of Hebrews, including several passages in the Book of Hebrews, but especially Hebrews 6:4-12 and Heb 10:26-39. The former passage says of those "who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come" that, when they "fall away", they cannot be "restored to repentance."[6:4-12] The latter passage says that if one continues in sin, "no sacrifice for sins" remains for that person but "only a fearful expectation of judgment."[10:26b-27a] The author of Hebrews predicts grave punishment for one who "has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace."[10:29]

The debate over these passages centers around the identity of the persons in question. While opponents of perseverance identify the persons as Christian believers, Calvinists suggest several other options:

• These passages are not clear enough to describe a regenerate person (or "true Christian"), and thus they do not describe the situation of a true believer. Instead, the persons in question may well have been part of the church community and had the advantages concomitant with that membership (citing the benefits of being a member of the covenant community in the Old Testament mentioned in Romans 3:1-4 and 9:4-5 without being truly "saved"—as with King Saul. In an effort to corroborate this interpretation, they also cite such passages as 1 John 2:19: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."
• These passages can refer to a regenerate person, but what is described is not a loss of salvation (because they believe other scriptural passages say that this is impossible), but instead a loss of eternal (or millennial) rewards.
• The author is employing hyperbole to effect positive change in his audience's behavior, possibly referring to Christians leaving fellowship in Hebrews 10:25.
• The passages refer to Jewish Christians who were reverting to Judaism.
• The passages refer to the rejection of the covenant community as a whole, not individual believers (Verbrugge).

[All4truth]

the passage is clear.  Why do people try to muddy it up?

[Femacamper]

Here is more on the Calvinist perspective:

Question: "Does Hebrews 10:26 mean that a believer can lose salvation?"

Answer: “For if we are willfully sinning after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice concerning sins.” Hebrews 10:26-29 warns against the sin of apostasy. Apostasy is an intentional falling away or defection. Apostates are those who move toward Christ, right up to the edge of saving belief, who hear and understand the Gospel, and are on the verge of saving faith, but then reject what they have learned and turn away. These are people who are perhaps even aware of their sin and even make a profession of faith. But rather than going on to spiritual maturity, their interest in Christ begins to diminish, the things of the world have more attraction to them rather than less, and eventually they lose all desire for the things of God and they turn away. The Lord illustrated these types of people in the second and third soils of Matthew 13:1-9, 18-23. These are those who “receive with joy” the things of the Lord, but who are drawn away by the cares of the world or turned off by difficulties they encounter because of Christ.

“Willful sinning” in this passage carries the idea of consciously and deliberately rejecting Christ. To know God’s way, to hear it preached, to study it, to count oneself among the faithful, and then to turn away is to become apostate. Sinning willfully carries with it the idea of sinning continually and deliberately. Such a person does not sin because of ignorance, nor is he carried away by momentary temptations he is too weak to resist. The willful sinner sins because of an established way of thinking and acting which he has no desire to give up. The true believer, on the other hand, is one who lapses into sin and loses temporary fellowship with God. But he will eventually come back to God in repentance because his heavenly Father will continually woo and convict him until he can’t stay away any longer. The true apostate will continue to sin, deliberately, willingly and with abandon. John tells us that “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).

Apostates have knowledge, but no application of that knowledge. They can be found in the presence of the light of Christ, mostly in the church, among God’s people. Judas Iscariot is the perfect example—he had knowledge but he lacked true faith. No other rejector of the truth had more or better exposure to the love and grace of God than Judas. He was part of Jesus’ inner circle of disciples, eating, sleeping, and traveling with Him for years. He saw the miracles and heard the words of God from Jesus’ very lips, from the best preacher the world has ever known, and yet he not only turned away but was instrumental in the plot to kill Jesus.

Having turned his back on the truth, and with full knowledge choosing to willfully and continually sin, the apostate is then beyond salvation because he has rejected the one true sacrifice for sins: the Lord Jesus Christ. If Christ’s sacrifice is rejected, then all hope of salvation is gone. To turn away willfully from this sacrifice leaves no sacrifice; it leaves only sin, the penalty for which is eternal death. This passage is not speaking of a believer who falls away, but rather someone who may claim to be a believer, but truly is not. Anyone who apostatizes is proving he never had genuine faith to begin with (1 John 2:19).

[Femacamper]

This perspective is more in line with Arminian beliefs:

SEVEN VIEWS ON APOSTASY FROM HEBREWS 6:1-6



This Sunday's D6 Family Theme is FAITHFULNESS. The text passage of Scripture is Hebrews 6:1-12 from which I will be preaching tomorrow.

I have been mediating on this passage of Scripture all week.  I have spent time praying over it, reading a variety of commentaries on it, wrestling with it, and doing word studies through the passage.  I'm mentally exhausted, but spiritually revived!

Let me explain.  I was raised Southern Baptist, educated at an Independent Baptist College, and ordained a Free Will Baptist.  Twenty years ago when I felt the Lord calling me into ministry I had to make a decision on which denomination I was going to spend the rest of my life serving.  Yes, you guessed it! It all came down to this passage of Scripture and others like it.

Well, I made my choice. I could not reason away what I was discovering in this particular passage, therefore, I identified with the Armenian group, the Free Will Baptist.  And with no regrets I might add!

I was reading this week in the Randall House Commentary by Dr. Stanley Outlaw.  Dr Outlaw shares seven different views on Hebrews 6:1-6:

• Those described are “professors” of salvation in Christ, but not genuine “possessors” of that salvation.
• Those described were “regenerate”, but not “elect”.
• Those described are genuinely saved people who receive a serious warning about apostasy as a preventive measure, but the whole thing is “hypothetical” since believers are eternally secure.
• Those described are saved people, but the writer is speaking about “loss of rewards” and not “loss of salvation”.
• The sin of apostasy spoken of here involves a special situation which could not be repeated today.
• Those described are saved people who are on the verge of apostasy, but even if they proceed into apostasy, they could come back to God, not through any human effort, but only by the power of the Holy Spirit.
• Those described are saved people who are seriously backslidden in their spiritual lives, and if they continue to the point of apostasy, they will be eternally lost since they have sinned against the Holy Spirit.

(The seventh view is the one I seem to believe fits the best within the context of the Scripture.  Therefore, this is the view for which I adhere.)

Many have asked me through the years about the "unpardonable sin" the sin of unbelief, the sin against the Holy Spirit.

I believe the sin against the Holy Spirit can be committed by both unsaved people - who constantly and willfully reject the obvious truth of the Gospel, and by saved people who also constantly and willfully turn their back on Christ to the point of final apostasy.

One final thought: You may be wondering if you have committed apostasy.  Well, just the fact you are questioning, pondering, and thinking about your relationship with God is a sure sign you have not committed apostasy.  Once you do, there is no coming back.  Whey? Because those who commit apostasy:

• Have turned off their consciences long enough that they no longer feel guilt.
• No longer feel sorry for their sin — they are enjoying it too much.  
• Have ears that have become dull to the voice of God.  
• Have eyes that have become blind to his goodness and mercy.  
• Have hearts that have become so calloused that they could no longer respond to the love of God.

Apostasy is a willful decision, and a deliberate choice, an abandonment to the things of God which are made with your own conscious.

[Jordan]

This perspective is more in line with Arminian beliefs:

SEVEN VIEWS ON APOSTASY FROM HEBREWS 6:1-6



This Sunday's D6 Family Theme is FAITHFULNESS. The text passage of Scripture is Hebrews 6:1-12 from which I will be preaching tomorrow.

I have been mediating on this passage of Scripture all week.  I have spent time praying over it, reading a variety of commentaries on it, wrestling with it, and doing word studies through the passage.  I'm mentally exhausted, but spiritually revived!

Let me explain.  I was raised Southern Baptist, educated at an Independent Baptist College, and ordained a Free Will Baptist.  Twenty years ago when I felt the Lord calling me into ministry I had to make a decision on which denomination I was going to spend the rest of my life serving.  Yes, you guessed it! It all came down to this passage of Scripture and others like it.

Well, I made my choice. I could not reason away what I was discovering in this particular passage, therefore, I identified with the Armenian group, the Free Will Baptist.  And with no regrets I might add!

I was reading this week in the Randall House Commentary by Dr. Stanley Outlaw.  Dr Outlaw shares seven different views on Hebrews 6:1-6:

• Those described are “professors” of salvation in Christ, but not genuine “possessors” of that salvation.
• Those described were “regenerate”, but not “elect”.
• Those described are genuinely saved people who receive a serious warning about apostasy as a preventive measure, but the whole thing is “hypothetical” since believers are eternally secure.
• Those described are saved people, but the writer is speaking about “loss of rewards” and not “loss of salvation”.
• The sin of apostasy spoken of here involves a special situation which could not be repeated today.
• Those described are saved people who are on the verge of apostasy, but even if they proceed into apostasy, they could come back to God, not through any human effort, but only by the power of the Holy Spirit.
• Those described are saved people who are seriously backslidden in their spiritual lives, and if they continue to the point of apostasy, they will be eternally lost since they have sinned against the Holy Spirit.

(The seventh view is the one I seem to believe fits the best within the context of the Scripture.  Therefore, this is the view for which I adhere.)

Many have asked me through the years about the "unpardonable sin" the sin of unbelief, the sin against the Holy Spirit.

I believe the sin against the Holy Spirit can be committed by both unsaved people - who constantly and willfully reject the obvious truth of the Gospel, and by saved people who also constantly and willfully turn their back on Christ to the point of final apostasy.

One final thought: You may be wondering if you have committed apostasy.  Well, just the fact you are questioning, pondering, and thinking about your relationship with God is a sure sign you have not committed apostasy.  Once you do, there is no coming back.  Whey? Because those who commit apostasy:

• Have turned off their consciences long enough that they no longer feel guilt.
• No longer feel sorry for their sin — they are enjoying it too much.  
• Have ears that have become dull to the voice of God.  
• Have eyes that have become blind to his goodness and mercy.  
• Have hearts that have become so calloused that they could no longer respond to the love of God.

Apostasy is a willful decision, and a deliberate choice, an abandonment to the things of God which are made with your own conscious.

Is it? So you think all these so called Christians that Jesus tells to get away from him don't genuinely think they are doing Gods will (which I think eveyrone here does). Yet we all know that can't be. So you can be decived into sinning. Perhaps it's something as simple as making a wilful decision to push a false doctrine even though you think it's not.

[Femacamper]

Question, in what context did Jesus ever tell Christians to get away from him?

I don't recall that from my Bible.

Some hyper-Arminians go off the deep end in the other direction and say that a real Christian never sins.

[Jordan]

Question, in what context did Jesus ever tell Christians to get away from him?

I don't recall that from my Bible.

Some hyper-Arminians go off the deep end in the other direction and say that a real Christian never sins.

Answer:
You misquoted me I said "so called Christians"  

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And my question was do you think that those he's talking about in this scripture are people that believe they are "real Christians"?