We don't need population reduction we need illegal-immigration reduction.

[m]

  There's plenty of space and resources on the Earth for us all.  If we were to outlaw corporations and use the land for what it was intended to be used for. Growing crops, living space, etc.. not as retail spaces and shopping malls. There would be plenty of food and living space for everyone if we took the space the corporations occupy and use it for good - to feed the hungry and to farm and to have homes for people, wind, solar and atmospheric water farms for energy.

 They say we are over-populated but it's just not true.  America is over-illegal-immigrated. I can look out my window and not see a single human... but when you get in the cities it seems we are over-populated only because millions of those people there should not be there.  They should be in their own countries.  Far from here using their own resources and making their own countries better not running from the problem but facing it head on.  If Mexicans are so hard working then why are they not working hard to change their own country?

 I read someone else's post that said something like: "If we allow the millions of illegals to become legal in this country what will happen when the next batch of millions of illegals come into the county?".  Well they will make them legal. Then more come in and they make them legal. If you keep this up then we truely will be over-populated in cities and such by the people who shouldn't be here in the first place.

 We are truely over-illegal-immigrated and we need a illegal-immigration reduction.  But we are far from not having the resources to sustain us all.  The only reason they can say we won't have the resources is because they shut down the farms and manufacturing in this country and build shopping malls and corporations and all the illegals that take away our resources and we get our food and products from China.  They train us in school to get jobs and not to work at home to feed ourselves but to shop at the store and buy their food and water.  The illegals don't care about not buying from China or buying slave labor goods.  All they want is cheap food and products to satisfy their needs.  They don't care about our ethics or morals or our constitution. 

 I have friends in this country who went through the legal process of becoming citizens.  I don't think it's fair to them after all they went though and all the money they spent to come here and get a green card to just allow illegals to walk in and take over.  Obviously the system is broke, and it's broke by design.   So what can we do?   

[Overcast]

 There's plenty of space and resources on the Earth for us all.  If we were to outlaw corporations and use the land for what it was intended to be used for. Growing crops, living space, etc.. not as retail spaces and shopping malls. There would be plenty of food and living space for everyone if we took the space the corporations occupy and use it for good - to feed the hungry and to farm and to have homes for people, wind, solar and atmospheric water farms for energy.

 They say we are over-populated but it's just not true.  America is over-illegal-immigrated. I can look out my window and not see a single human... but when you get in the cities it seems we are over-populated only because millions of those people there should not be there.  They should be in their own countries.  Far from here using their own resources and making their own countries better not running from the problem but facing it head on.  If Mexicans are so hard working then why are they not working hard to change their own country?

 I read someone else's post that said something like: "If we allow the millions of illegals to become legal in this country what will happen when the next batch of millions of illegals come into the county?".  Well they will make them legal. Then more come in and they make them legal. If you keep this up then we truely will be over-populated in cities and such by the people who shouldn't be here in the first place.

 We are truely over-illegal-immigrated and we need a illegal-immigration reduction.  But we are far from not having the resources to sustain us all.  The only reason they can say we won't have the resources is because they shut down the farms and manufacturing in this country and build shopping malls and corporations and all the illegals that take away our resources and we get our food and products from China.  They train us in school to get jobs and not to work at home to feed ourselves but to shop at the store and buy their food and water.  The illegals don't care about not buying from China or buying slave labor goods.  All they want is cheap food and products to satisfy their needs.  They don't care about our ethics or morals or our constitution.  

 I have friends in this country who went through the legal process of becoming citizens.  I don't think it's fair to them after all they went though and all the money they spent to come here and get a green card to just allow illegals to walk in and take over.  Obviously the system is broke, and it's broke by design.   So what can we do?  

It's 'broke' because it provides cheap - almost slave labor to many 'elites' and corporations they run. I agree totally they make it FAR too hard for people to legally immigrate. They keep immigration laws tight, but then go on about a 'global economy' and 'global' this and that, but then act as though laws from the 30's on immigration still work. Obviously, they don't.

The 'fix' is easy, it's just a matter that there's no will to fix anything because of 'slave-labor' - the fix is to start jailing employers who hire people that aren't legally permitted to work in this country - that would fix it REAL fast. I mean, I couldn't use an excuse that the 'paperwork mislead me' or some BS if I bought a stolen item - I'd still get charged.

You can't blame the immigrants - few, if any laws will stop them - they have little to loose anyway. Now the people hiring them on the other hand - have much more to loose...

If all these 'illegal workers' were paying payroll tax now, I'd doubt we would have the budget problems that we supposedly have - although, personally I think that's a shell game.

[Monkeypox]

I read that if the current pace of immigration/birth rates continues, the US will have over 500 million people by mid-century.

And you're right, the world isn't "over-populated".  It just looks that way because people are increasingly moving from rural areas to cities.

100 years ago, 90% of Americans lived in rural areas, now it's around 10%.

[Geolibertarian]

Mass immigration is merely a symptom. The root cause is privilege (see this, this and this), and how the horrid socioeconomic conditions to which ruling-class privileges inevitably give rise compel countless millions of people to search, out of desperation, for a better place to live (or at least a place that isn't quite so hellish).

So if you try to eliminate this or any other symptom without even acknowledging (let alone working to eliminate) what gave rise to it in the first place, you're putting the cart before the horse, and are hence defeating the very end you're attempting to serve.

"All such remedies begin at the wrong end. They are like putting on brake and bit to hold in quietness horses that are being lashed into frenzy; they are like trying to stop a locomotive by holding its wheels instead of shutting off steam; like attempting to cure smallpox by driving back its pustules." -- Henry George

[freedom_commonsense]

That's a given Geolib, but I can't influence what goes in Africa or the Middle East any more than an average citizen of those regions influences the UK.

[m]

I agree with you all on that.  Nice links too I'm going to read those when I have a some time tonight.  I hate it. We (not me of course) ended slavery and now we just import goods from slaves and the illegals become slaves because they work under the table with no real rights. An employer can tell them to do anything and make them work for slave wages.  Some of them do get paid well though because they don't have to pay taxes because again it's under the table.  We worked hard (not me again - I wasn't even born yet ) for employee rights and real wages and all that in the past and now the businesses changed our laws so they can import from overseas more and setup shop overseas to avoid taxes.  It's all a sham and they should put those people who hire them in jail and take away their business.  Not fine them.  Jail them.  And take away their business license forever.  And I've said it many times - I think corporations should be made illegal.  Corporations should not exist.  They have proven that they can't be trusted.  But any business that hires illegals should be jailed, fined and their business license revoked forever.  Wish I was president.  

[m]

I read that if the current pace of immigration/birth rates continues, the US will have over 500 million people by mid-century.

And you're right, the world isn't "over-populated".  It just looks that way because people are increasingly moving from rural areas to cities.

100 years ago, 90% of Americans lived in rural areas, now it's around 10%.

Yeah I forgot that too.  I beleive it's because they are shutting down the farms and making it hard for them to make a living at it.  They can't compete with the global slave labor.

[Rebelitarian]

Genesis - Illegal Alien (1983) 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_61hzuGGJX0

[Monkeypox]

Yeah I forgot that too.  I beleive it's because they are shutting down the farms and making it hard for them to make a living at it.  They can't compete with the global slave labor.

Yes, worldwide, people are being driven into the urban areas to try to survive.

[Geolibertarian]

That's a given Geolib, but I can't influence what goes in Africa or the Middle East any more than an average citizen of those regions influences the UK.

If the U.S. ended the drug war, ended its terroristic wars of aggression, and -- in the process of instituting both a debt-free money system and non-corporatist trade policy -- withdrew its support from both the IMF and WTO, you don't think that would have a positive influence on other countries?

It's called the Anglo-American establishment for a reason.



That establishment is rooted in Britain and the U.S., and its draconian policies are the primary reason why billions of people throughout the world live in poverty-stricken hell holes. So I think it's a mistake to assume that reasserting our rightful control over our respective governments won't have an immediate beneficial impact on the rest of the world.

[freedom_commonsense]

If the U.S. ended the drug war, ended its terroristic wars of aggression, and -- in the process of instituting both a debt-free money system and non-corporatist trade policy -- withdrew its support from both the IMF and WTO, you don't think that would have a positive influence on other countries?

Indeed - it would still require the citizens of those countries to mobilise in order to improve their own governance though.

That establishment is rooted in Britain and the U.S., and its draconian policies are the primary reason why billions of people throughout the world live in poverty-stricken hell holes. So I think it's a mistake to assume that reasserting our rightful control over our respective governments won't have an immediate beneficial impact on the rest of the world.

Unfortunately there are too many zombies I can't get through to, I'd like to see less "globalism" of that sort myself. As above - even if the foreign influence was removed overnight, that doesn't guarantee other countries will be fixed.