Alex Jones Compared to Peter Joseph

[serenesam]

In my heart of hearts, I personally believe in Peter Joseph’s philosophy of his Zeitgeist Movement and Jacque Fresco’s Venus Project. However, I believe that Peter Joseph is waging a war in which he cannot win and so I am a supporter of Alex Jones. Alex Jones claims that he is not a conservative but I disagree with that because I have listened to his radio shows and his views tends to be moderately conservative (glad that he is not a radical conservative). Peter Joseph claims that he is not a communist or a socialist but his views tend to be more liberal. I wonder if their views are the result of upbringing since Alex is in Texas and his father is a dentist whereas Peter Joseph has witnessed poverty in his eyes and his mom was a social worker. Peter even admits that his mother has helped shape some of his current views and beliefs.

I think Peter Joseph is waging a war in which he cannot win because not only is he waging a war against the elite and the establishment but he is also waging a war against the upper middle class not a part of the global elite such as small business owners or other people who have a lot of money but not as much as the elite. I do not believe that the upper middle class would want to see all their money disappear overnight. Many conservatives view this as socialist or communist and find the Zeitgeist Movement threatening their possession of money (which I think reveals the true motivation in life which is extrinsic compared to intrinsic motivation contrary to what many psychologists say). The only possibility in which I see possible of Peter Joseph being successful would be if extraterrestrials revealed themselves to the earth population with huge visible mother ships demanding that the resources of the world be equally distributed to everyone at the United Nations. From a spiritual perspective, I believe that humanity has forgotten that the fruits of the earth belong to everybody. To deny another human being the basic necessities of food, water, and shelter is not right in my opinion. I can certainly understand the frustration of some of the members here on this forum who feel not much is being done and question why the positive extraterrestrials are not helping us. The only other possibility of success would be a very long time of passage (in this case probably longer given the complicated battle) as movements countering the status quo tend to take a very long time.

I also like Alex Jones. No matter how much the mainstream media have attempted to demonize him calling him schizophrenic, having oppositional defiant disorder, or simply just a nut, I have to give him credit for his courage to physically go out there and look silly in the presence of thousands of people. I have to commend him for being able to wake up every single day for almost a decade now and doing what he does on the air to get people fired up. He went to London to bullhorn. He went to Canada to bullhorn elite people in 2006 with Jim Tucker. He went to Virginia in 2008 and did the same thing. He was even arrested for illegally using a bullhorn with the 9/11 truthers asking for a reinvestigation. I have seen all of his documentary work and am impressed. Although some may call him a conspiracy theorist, he has been right on target on a lot of issues. Not only is it all about Alex Jones but his guests give really insightful information. For example, Gerald Celente has been pretty accurate with his predictions dating back 30 years. You think he is just going to strike out now when he is calling the Greatest Depression by 2012 (rhetorical question)?

Seeing the supporters of Alex Jones criticizing the supporters of Peter Joseph saddens me. We are all on the same boat and if it sinks then we all sink. We are all on this together and being divided will only make us more malleable to the hands of control and manipulation. Jesus once said that “a house divided cannot stand on its own.” Regardless of you may feel about other people, whether you like them or not, it is going to write the destiny of our future.

[Freeski]

Zeitgeist and Venus are both repackaged communism and Alex Jones would be more accurately labeled a Constitutionalist -- which is different than the popular definition of a "conservative".

[Dok]

Zeitgeist and Venus are both repackaged communism and Theosophy IE: new-age and Alex Jones would be more accurately labeled a Constitutionalist -- which is different than the popular definition of a "conservative".

 

[serenesam]

Zeitgeist and Venus are both repackaged communism and Alex Jones would be more accurately labeled a Constitutionalist -- which is different than the popular definition of a "conservative".

I don't know. It just seems that most of the Constitutionalists are on the right and have Right Wing views.

[serenesam]

Not that it matters but I even wrote about why the Zeitgeist Movement may fail in another forum:

1). Not only is the Zeitgeist Movement waging a war against the global elite, it is also waging a war against the upper middle class or people who are rich but are not considered to be super ultra rich. These people may be hard-working people who have saved up a lot of money or own a small business and to see all their money disappear (because of the abolishment of the monetary system) would not make them happy. Furthermore, some of these people view the Zeitgeist Movement as being communistic or socialistic (even if it does not exactly fit the definition of communism or socialism and even if ZM supporters disagree).

2). If I was an elitist and a billionaire, I would do everything in my power behind the scenes to attempt to kill this movement. My lifestyle is obviously very comfortable with luxurious home(s), cars, and material possessions. I also get access to mistresses and have a special account at a millionaire dating website. To simply give up the fabulous life I inhabit is simply not possible and threatens my high status as an important person where people bow down to me and women love me so much. The Zeitgeist Movement may take away my sense of ownership and this is unacceptable to me.

3). The Zeitgeist Movement is in competition with other movements such as Alex Jones supporters and the New Age Movement. Alex Jones supporters view the Zeitgeist Movement just as much of a threat as the New World Order. Alex Jones himself have stated its communistic/socialistic tone to it on record (of course, ZM supporters disagree). His supporters have suggested that the ZM is a part of the New World Order conspiracy. The New Age Movement incorporates a more spiritual aspect dealing with aliens, angels, and other mythological creatures and this too is unpopular to ZM supporters. Supporters of the New Age include psychics, indigos, and lightworkers. Some believe in channeled messages from archangels and aliens. I would assume it would be very difficult for ZM supporters to convince some of the lightworkers to drop their belief about religion or God which would only make the Zeitgeist Movement all that more difficult to achieve and accomplish. Alex Jones also does not like the New Age Movement but he has stated in record that he believes in God and agrees with David Icke about 98% of the time.

4). The stubborn mass population who like things to stay the way they are. Most people simply just enjoy the status quo and are comfortable with their lives. They fear change and do not want change. They are indifferent to the feelings and lives of other people. Some people have been so heavily conditioned to the point where I would even say that change is impossible. Psychopaths maintain their destructive and evil ways even when they undergo counseling. Trying to counsel them or recondition them may compound the problem further. I feel the fear of change is a big one but it is just that most people are not willing to admit that for it may show that they are weak. For other people, as long as they have a house, a car, and can watch football with their buddies, they can care less about some movement called the Zeitgeist Movement.

[Freeski]

I don't know. It just seems that most of the Constitutionalists are on the right and have Right Wing views.

The right vs. left political spectrum is bogus.

Try this: The World's Smallest Political Quiz.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

I think Venus and Zeitgeist appeal to people's understandable need for something way different/better than our current system of crony collectivism -- but the problem is that their supposedly idealist vision comes with the same fatal flaw you find in communism/socialism.

[Freeski]

Not that it matters but I even wrote about why the Zeitgeist Movement may fail in another forum:

1). Not only is the Zeitgeist Movement waging a war against the global elite, it is also waging a war against the upper middle class or people who are rich but are not considered to be super ultra rich. These people may be hard-working people who have saved up a lot of money or own a small business and to see all their money disappear (because of the abolishment of the monetary system) would not make them happy. Furthermore, some of these people view the Zeitgeist Movement as being communistic or socialistic (even if it does not exactly fit the definition of communism or socialism and even if ZM supporters disagree).

2). If I was an elitist and a billionaire, I would do everything in my power behind the scenes to attempt to kill this movement. My lifestyle is obviously very comfortable with luxurious home(s), cars, and material possessions. I also get access to mistresses and have a special account at a millionaire dating website. To simply give up the fabulous life I inhabit is simply not possible and threatens my high status as an important person where people bow down to me and women love me so much. The Zeitgeist Movement may take away my sense of ownership and this is unacceptable to me.

3). The Zeitgeist Movement is in competition with other movements such as Alex Jones supporters and the New Age Movement. Alex Jones supporters view the Zeitgeist Movement just as much of a threat as the New World Order. Alex Jones himself have stated its communistic/socialistic tone to it on record (of course, ZM supporters disagree). His supporters have suggested that the ZM is a part of the New World Order conspiracy. The New Age Movement incorporates a more spiritual aspect dealing with aliens, angels, and other mythological creatures and this too is unpopular to ZM supporters. Supporters of the New Age include psychics, indigos, and lightworkers. Some believe in channeled messages from archangels and aliens. I would assume it would be very difficult for ZM supporters to convince some of the lightworkers to drop their belief about religion or God which would only make the Zeitgeist Movement all that more difficult to achieve and accomplish. Alex Jones also does not like the New Age Movement but he has stated in record that he believes in God and agrees with David Icke about 98% of the time.

4). The stubborn mass population who like things to stay the way they are. Most people simply just enjoy the status quo and are comfortable with their lives. They fear change and do not want change. They are indifferent to the feelings and lives of other people. Some people have been so heavily conditioned to the point where I would even say that change is impossible. Psychopaths maintain their destructive and evil ways even when they undergo counseling. Trying to counsel them or recondition them may compound the problem further. I feel the fear of change is a big one but it is just that most people are not willing to admit that for it may show that they are weak. For other people, as long as they have a house, a car, and can watch football with their buddies, they can care less about some movement called the Zeitgeist Movement.

They may deny that the Zeitgeist movement is communist all they want, but that doesn't change the fact that the movement is against (or doesn't understand) the principles of liberty. All of these great utopian ideas if left unchallenged tend to end up in mega mass murder.

That's why I choose this:

Are libertarians conservative or liberal?

You have a better choice than just left or right. The libertarian way gives you more choices, in politics, in business, your personal life, in every way. Libertarians advocate a high degree of both personal and economic liberty. Today's liberals like personal liberty but want government to control your economic affairs. Conservatives reverse that, advocating more economic freedom but wanting to clamp down on your private life.

Libertarian positions on the issues are not "left" or "right" or a combination of the two. Libertarians believe that, on every issue, you have the right to decide for yourself what's best for you and to act on that belief so long as you respect the right of other people to do the same and deal with them peacefully and honestly.

"Actually, true conservatives tend to be libertarian on economic issues, and true liberals tend to be libertarian on social issues," says Sharon Harris, president of the Advocates for Self-Government. "The consistency is to the extent to which one believes in individual liberty. This is what I call the Libertarian Denominator."

Unfortunately, many of today's liberals and conservatives have rejected America's heritage of liberty and personal responsibility. They want to put us all in their straitjacket. Americans built a great country without shackles. It's time to take them off again. Break free of the useless left right spectrum. Think freedom on all issues. Think libertarian.

http://www.libertarianism.com/

[serenesam]

The right vs. left political spectrum is bogus.

Try this: The World's Smallest Political Quiz.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 80%

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 60%

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...LIBERTARIAN.

[Freeski]

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 80%

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 60%

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...LIBERTARIAN.

The philosophy of logic!

[serenesam]

Here is my specific answers on the test:

Personal Issues
Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet. - Agree
Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft. - Agree
There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults. - Agree
Repeal laws prohibiting adult possession and use of drugs. - Agree
There should be no National ID card. - Disagree
Economic Issues
End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business. - Agree
End government barriers to international free trade. - Agree
Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security. - Maybe
Replace government welfare with private charity. - Disagree
Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more. - Maybe

[Freeski]

Here is my specific answers on the test:

Personal Issues
Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet. - Agree
Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft. - Agree
There should be no laws regarding sex for consenting adults. - Agree
Repeal laws prohibiting adult possession and use of drugs. - Agree
There should be no National ID card. - Disagree
Economic Issues
End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business. - Agree
End government barriers to international free trade. - Agree
Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security. - Maybe
Replace government welfare with private charity. - Disagree
Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more. - Maybe

Tough ones, I know, because it took me nearly a decade to see another possibility myself. In case you're interested, here's a great little essay on the subject.

The Invisible Hand Is a Gentle Hand
By Sharon Harris

The enemies of freedom have always maligned the free market. They have perpetuated myths like "dog-eat-dog capitalism," "survival of the fittest," "the law of the jungle." Robber barons. Heartless monopolies. A ruthless Wall Street fleecing a helpless Main Street. Baloney.
http://harrybrowne.org/articles/InvisibleHand.htm

[Rebelitarian]

Take the test to fins out.

Actually you can be either lefty-libertarian or a righty-libertarian.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

[worcesteradam]

Not that it matters but I even wrote about why the Zeitgeist Movement may fail in another forum:

1). Not only is the Zeitgeist Movement waging a war against the global elite,

no it isnt
it is the global elite

[Femacamper]

I'm definitely Libertarian!

[serenesam]

Take the test to fins out.

Actually you can be either lefty-libertarian or a righty-libertarian.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.79

[serenesam]

no it isnt
it is the global elite

How do you know?

[worcesteradam]

because Zeitgeist type solutions is what the elite want
Venus Project is basically just the UN agenda

[Freeski]

because Zeitgeist type solutions is what the elite want
Venus Project is basically just the UN agenda

It's a kinder, gentler, technological oligarchy.

[Freeski]

Take the test to fins out.

Actually you can be either lefty-libertarian or a righty-libertarian.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I Disagree. I believe in the line in the sand. Freedom or tyranny. No grey.

[MonkeyPuppet]

I Disagree. I believe in the line in the sand. Freedom or tyranny. No grey.

While I agree wholeheartedly, those putting together tests like that feel the need to make it a point system... a couple points this way, some points that way, etc.  It's built on grey.

A much simpler test would have simple A/B or Y/N questions with one answer being the choice that lovers of liberty would choose... and the other the choice that enemies of liberty would choose.  If even ONE of the answers is for the latter, the test self-destructs and kills the anti-liberty SOB right then and there

[wvoutlaw2002]

Today's liberals like personal liberty but want government to control your economic affairs. Conservatives reverse that, advocating more economic freedom but wanting to clamp down on your private life.

Actually, both "liberals" and "conservatives" are both united in their hatred of both economic freedom and personal freedom.

[Jackson Holly]

I hate the labeling ... conservative/liberal, democrat/republican,
socialist/libertarian, etc/etc ... I find myself supporting bits and
pieces of all these so-called 'philosophies', which is probably the
case for most thinking people.

Here is the important thing:

Less government is good ~ More government is bad.

Less centralization of power is good ~ More centralization of power is bad.

We must always demand LOCALIZED government and resist NWO concentration.

[RabidSheep]

The right vs. left political spectrum is bogus.

Try this: The World's Smallest Political Quiz.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

I think Venus and Zeitgeist appeal to people's understandable need for something way different/better than our current system of crony collectivism -- but the problem is that their supposedly idealist vision comes with the same fatal flaw you find in communism/socialism.

Damn, 100 percent libertarian here.

[Freeski]

Damn, 100 percent libertarian here.

It's the only moral way to be.