The Difference Between Obama's Change and Reality

[charrington]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMGsULqSBi0

[Freeski]

It's so sad that the brainwashing/indoctrination/conditioning is so deep. Everyone depends on the state for their housing, schooling, health care, airline security and everything else.

Government is the problem!

[serenesam]

I wonder though, if they cut off housing and healthcare would crime go up? If they cut off food stamps, would crime go up?

[ScipioAfricanus]

I wonder though, if they cut off housing and healthcare would crime go up? If they cut off food stamps, would crime go up?

if you cut healthcare and foodstamps, you must have major tax cuts and deregulation to absorb the displacement. if not, you will have major crime.

[charrington]

if you cut healthcare and foodstamps, you must have major tax cuts and deregulation to absorb the displacement. if not, you will have major crime.

You'd almost have to do away with taxes completely to even come close to filling that gap. Truth be told as long as we have economically impoverished areas there will be crime.

And everyone from top to bottom is "hooked" on government crack of some kind it's going to be a long hard recovery...

[ScipioAfricanus]

You'd almost have to do away with taxes completely to even come close to filling that gap. Truth be told as long as we have economically impoverished areas there will be crime.

And everyone from top to bottom is "hooked" on government crack of some kind it's going to be a long hard recovery...

well we can start with ending the wars.

[charrington]

well we can start with ending the wars.

I don't think any of the politicians really want that - cept maybe Rob Paul

[Geolibertarian]

Government is the problem!

So there's no need to exercise discernment as to which governmental policies should be abolished outright (e.g., wars of aggression, Nazi-style police state measures, etc.) and which should merely be replaced with much better policies (e.g., replacing our debt-based money system with a debt-free money system instead of merely "ending the Fed")?

We can just blindly throw the baby out with the bathwater, assuming all the while that -- since there's no such thing as private tyranny (yeah, right, tell that to a historian) -- once "government" is phased out of existence altogether, there will magically be equal freedom for all, and hence no enslavement or oppression of any kind?

If there are people who actually believe this fairy tale, then all I can say is: they're in for a very rude awakening, because human nature precedes government, and so doesn't conveniently cease to be human nature in the absence of government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE (The American Form of Government)

[charrington]

So there's no need to exercise discernment as to which governmental policies should be abolished outright (e.g., wars of aggression, Nazi-style police state measures, etc.) and which should merely be replaced with much better policies (e.g., replacing our debt-based money system with a debt-free money system instead of merely "ending the Fed")?

All great ideas - starting with remove the current system that has failed and create a new one - or replacing the gears in the system that are no longer working doesn't stop that process from happening again and again and ...


I think the system is fatally infected with political corruption and corporatism - the legal system also has run amok. Education is also under attack (has been for a long time).

Where to start?

We can just blindly throw the baby out with the bathwater, assuming all the while that -- since there's no such thing as private tyranny (yeah, right, tell that to a historian) -- once "government" is phased out of existence altogether, there will magically be equal freedom for all, and hence no enslavement or oppression of any kind?

If there are people who actually believe this fairy tale, then all I can say is: they're in for a very rude awakening, because human nature precedes government, and so doesn't conveniently cease to be human nature in the absence of government.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE (The American Form of Government)

That video brings out a good talking point. If the founding fathers saw what happened to Greece and Rome and decided to have a republic and also saw and understood "The essence of freedom" how and why are we here again?

If man knows that the essence of freedom is the proper limitation of government why is it failing yet again? Why are the same mistakes happening all over again? They knew what would cause a republic to fail and couldn't stop it -- why?

It's rough trying to stop the fall just before the collapse - couldn't have picked a more difficult time to try to change things... After the collapse might be a better time if the right things rush in and fill the voids.

I mean I understand why Thomas Jefferson said:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. How often will we go through this endless loop?

[freedom_commonsense]

It's rough trying to stop the fall just before the collapse - couldn't have picked a more difficult time to try to change things... After the collapse might be a better time if the right things rush in and fill the voids.

I mean I understand why Thomas Jefferson said:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. How often will we go through this endless loop?

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. That doesn't mean we give up on improving the state though.

[Freeski]

How often will we go through this endless loop?

As long as education and the media is controlled by the state, it will indeed be an endless loop.

[charrington]

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. That doesn't mean we give up on improving the state though.

What happened for the last 200 years? Where was the vigilance? Or in Rome etc.. I mean this isn't the first time the human race has seen this and that's my point. What's it take for "true change" so the same thing isn't repeated yet again?

If the system worked you'd think sometime in history there would have been a successful civilization that would still be standing no?

[ScipioAfricanus]

All great ideas - starting with remove the current system that has failed and create a new one - or replacing the gears in the system that are no longer working doesn't stop that process from happening again and again and ...


I think the system is fatally infected with political corruption and corporatism - the legal system also has run amok. Education is also under attack (has been for a long time).

Where to start?

That video brings out a good talking point. If the founding fathers saw what happened to Greece and Rome and decided to have a republic and also saw and understood "The essence of freedom" how and why are we here again?

If man knows that the essence of freedom is the proper limitation of government why is it failing yet again? Why are the same mistakes happening all over again? They knew what would cause a republic to fail and couldn't stop it -- why?

It's rough trying to stop the fall just before the collapse - couldn't have picked a more difficult time to try to change things... After the collapse might be a better time if the right things rush in and fill the voids.

I mean I understand why Thomas Jefferson said:

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. How often will we go through this endless loop?

may I add, that the culture core of America at the time of the American revolution was highly calvinistic in a large part due to the puritans of new england. This calvinistic core has been severely diluted.

The following work was instrumental in the revolution. How many of us have read it? For that matter how many Americans today have read it?
http://www.lonang.com/exlibris/misc/1579-vct.htm