Mr. Pres, everyone knows BC is fake...INITIATE OPERATION DECLARE OBL KILLED!

Author Topic: Mr. Pres, everyone knows BC is fake...INITIATE OPERATION DECLARE OBL KILLED!  (Read 269041 times)

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Offline Geolibertarian

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I truly hope you're right about that, but until I see compelling evidence to that effect, I'll be inclined to assume that they'll fall hook, line and sinker for this scam like they did every single one before this.

Once Obama's next "approval" ratings are released, that's when we'll know whether this PsyOp served the "manufacutring consent" purpose for which it was obviously designed.

Looks like the PsyOp was at least a partial success:

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http://www.prisonplanet.com/americans-are-the-most-gullible-people-on-the-planet.html

Americans Are The Most Gullible People On The Planet

Obama Gets Massive 13 Point Bounce From Contrived Bin Laden Raid

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, May 11, 2011

Here’s a reminder that the vast majority of Americans are amongst the most gullible people on the planet. President Obama’s ability to pose as a “tough guy” over the contrived fable of the Bin Laden raid, allied with a return to simple-minded Bush-style terror fearmongering and helpful media spin on the economy, has enabled him to secure a massive 13 point bounce in approval ratings.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjUBiVFDrmo

From being in a position where even Democrats were so convinced that Obama would lose the election they were prepared to declare him incompetent and evict him from power, a majority of Americans now think that Obama deserves a second term.

Back in November, the president’s approval rating stood at a paltry 47 per cent, but following the Bin Laden raid and Obama’s hastily executed photo-op at ground zero, allied to his administration’s fearmongering about Al-Qaeda reprisal attacks, it now stands at 60 per cent according to a AP-GfK survey, a whopping 13 point bounce from the all time low.

After the staged Bin Laden Hollywood production, 65 per cent of Americans now believe that Obama is a “strong leader,” and 69 per cent say they trust him to keep the nation safe.

[Continued...]

-----------------------------

This is why I remain absolutely convinced that timid calls for a "new investigation" of 9/11 are simply not enough!

To understand what I mean, consider the short tale, The Emperor's New Clothes. What if the child in that story, instead of saying point blank that the Emperor "isn't wearing anything at all," had merely proposed that the question of what the Emperor is in fact wearing be "investigated"?

Would that have broken the crowd out of its spell? Or would the crowd have kept right on cheering? I assume most people reading this would answer the latter.

Same principle here.

The masses are so hypnotized by media propaganda at this point, that only a healthy dose of cold, hard truth uttered in unapologetic fashion can possibly break them out of this spell they're obviously under.

Thus, now more than ever, our unified message to our fellow citizens must be...

     
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Protean

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Looks like the PsyOp was at least a partial success:

-----------------------------

http://www.prisonplanet.com/americans-are-the-most-gullible-people-on-the-planet.html

Americans Are The Most Gullible People On The Planet

Obama Gets Massive 13 Point Bounce From Contrived Bin Laden Raid


Indeed.

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Source--
http://www.listenlittleman.com/

Online TahoeBlue

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Indeed.

Leash For New Freedom Harness  

Matching leashes for The New Freedom Harness....
Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline bigron

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Protean

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“That’s Not Osama”: Neighbor

Video on page--
http://www.therightperspective.org/2011/05/10/thats-not-osama-neighbor/

A neighbor of dead terrorist leader Osama bin Laden says the man seen in new videos released by the US government is actually a friend of his and not the Al Queda founder.

“His name is Akhbar Khan (Han), He owns the house that was Osama’s house. I know him very well,” a Pakistani man named Shabir told the BBC.

Shabir says he is his a neighbor of the man.

“It’s all a fake, nothing happened,” Abbottobad resient Mohammed, who has been selling newspapers in the two for the last 50 years, told the BBC.

Out of the 50 Abbottobad residents interviewed by the BBC, only one believed that Osama bin Laden was in their town. Others claimed the pictures and video of bin Laden in his home are fakes made with a computer.

Offline bigron

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Statement From the Family of Osama bin Laden


Statement from the family of Sheikh Osama bin Laden


May 11, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/world/asia/binladen-statement.html

I Omar Ossama Binladin and my brothers the lawful children and heirs of the Ossama Binladin (OBL) have noted wide coverage of the news of the death of our father, but we are not convinced on the available evidence in the absence of dead body, photographs, and video evidence that our natural father is dead. Therefore, with this press statement, we seek such conclusive evidence to believe the stories published in relation to 2 May 2011 operation Geronimo as declared by the President of United States Barrack Hussein Obama in his speech that he authorized the said operation and killing of OBL and later confirmed his death.

If OBL has been killed in that operation as President of United States has claimed then we are just in questioning as per media reports that why an unarmed man was not arrested and tried in a court of law so that truth is revealed to the people of the world. If he has been summarily executed then, we question the propriety of such assassination where not only international law has been blatantly violated but USA has set a very different example whereby right to have a fair trial, and presumption of innocence until proven guilty by a court of law has been sacrificed on which western society is built and is standing when a trial of OBL was possible for any wrongdoing as that of Iraqi President Sadam Hussein and Serbian President Slobodan Miloševic'. We maintain that arbitrary killing is not a solution to political problems and crime's adjudication as Justice must be seen to be done.

It is also unworthy of the special forces to shoot unarmed female family members of Binladen killing a female and that of one of his son.

Most importantly, when it is a common knowledge that OBL's family is residing at one place outside KSA, why they were not contacted to receive his dead body. His sudden and un witnessed burial at sea has deprived the family of performing religious rights of a Muslim man.

Finally, now that the operation is concluded we wish the Government of Pakistan to release and hand over all minors of the family and all the family members are reunited at one place and are repatriated to their country of origin, especially female members of the family to avoid further oppression and we seek international support to that effect.

Without agreeing to the ways of OBL as to how he professed, believed and operated, We Omar Ossama Binladin, and my brothers, the lawful children of the Ossama Binladin (OBL) herewith demand an inquiry under UNO to reach to the accuracy of the facts as stated by United States into the fundamental question as to why our father was not arrested and tried but summarily executed without a court of law. We are putting these questions to the United Nations, OIC, President of United States that a necessary evidence is presented to the family in private and or public to make us believe what they claim, and all the remaining family members are repatriated and united after necessary initial investigation.

In making this statement, we want to remind the world that Omar Ossam Binladin, the fourth-born son of our father, always disagreed with our father regarding any violence and always sent messages to our father, that he must change his ways and that no civilians should be attacked under any circumstances. Despite the difficulty of publicly disagreeing with our father, he never hesitated to condemn any violent attacks made by anyone, and expressed sorrow for the victims of any and all attacks. As he condemned our father, we now condemn the president of the United States for ordering the execution of unarmed men and women.

Failure to answer these questions will force us to go to International forum for justice such as International Criminal Court and International Court of Justice and UN must take notice of the violation of international law and assist us to have answers for which we are lawful in seeking them. A panel of eminent British and international lawyers is being constituted and a necessary action may be taken if no answers are furnished within 30 days of this statement.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/world/asia/binladen-statement.html


 

Offline bigron

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Was the Killing of Osama bin Laden Legal?

We don't know whether the administration ordered the al Qaeda leader killed,
but that hasn't stopped an acrimonious debate
.



By Joshua Holland, AlterNet
Posted on May 11, 2011, Printed on May 12, 2011
http://www.alternet.org/story/150911/was_the_killing_of_osama_bin_laden_legal

A notably vitriolic debate has broken out in the wake of the killing of Osama bin Laden. Prominent progressives including Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky and Glenn Greenwald have all questioned whether the al Qaeda leader could have been taken alive, and, if the order was given to kill him, whether that would be a legal action. They have, in turn, been pilloried to varying degrees by most of the liberal establishment.

It's a debate that has generated lots of heat but yielded little light on the subject – an almost religious dispute between people who have formed unyielding views based largely on their own emotional responses to the raid.

The discussion has been marked by two fundamental flaws. First, we don't know precisely what occurred in the final moments of Osama bin Laden's life in that compound, and the details are crucially important – absolutely necessary, in fact – for determining the legality of the raid.

Second, there's been a lot of cross-talk because what we consider to be “legal” arises from various sources of law, and we've been treated to a mish-mash of assertions about the raid drawing on various aspects of that canon without much attention to how they overlap, and in some cases, conflict.

What Do We Actually Know?

All other considerations aside, if Osama bin Laden attempted to surrender and was shot down, then it is an open-and-shut case: even in war, protocol 1 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits the killing of anyone who is hors de combat (out of the fight), attempting to surrender. Similarly, a strong argument can be made that the U.S. was acting within the law in apprehending the al Qaeda founder, and if bin Laden had resisted that assault force in any way, his killing would have been an equally clear case of self-defense.

According to the administration's account, the SEAL team encountered no resistance once inside the building where bin Laden was located. There, they encountered a 64-year-old suffering from renal failure, clad in pajamas, and killed him.

The administration says that bin Laden either lunged for a weapon or retreated into a bedroom. Bin Laden's daughter claims he was taken alive and then executed. Neither claim is backed by any hard evidence, and both the administration and survivors of the raid have a vested interest in portraying events in a certain light. In the end, a small number of Navy SEALs, bin Laden's youngest wife, now in Pakistani custody, and a handful of senior military and administration officials know precisely what transpired.

It is likely that historians, rather than journalists, will provide the information necessary to defintively judge this question. Classified information is eventually declassified, people retire and recount their exploits, and eventually, even the most sensitive state secrets are laid bare. But so far, accepting that a given narrative is indisputably true is an act of faith, not reason.

That hasn't stopped people from confidently drawing conclusions based on what they believe happened in Abbottabad. So, legal scholar Marjorie Cohn wrote of the “targeted assassination” of Osama bin Laden, based on the assumption that those SEALs were ordered to kill him on sight:

Targeted assassinations violate well-established principles of international law. Also called political assassinations, they are extrajudicial executions. These are unlawful and deliberate killings carried out by order of, or with the acquiescence of, a government, outside any judicial framework.

Cohn has no idea that bin Laden didn't go for a weapon when confronted by those special forces operators, but writes as if that is an established fact.

Similarly, the American Prospect's Adam Serwer penned a piece (responding to a post by Salon's Glenn Greenwald) titled, “Killing Osama bin Laden Was Legal,” in which he cites international and domestic law to argue that it was a slam-dunk case. But his argument falls apart on one key sentence: “Killing bin Laden was legal based on what we know now.” But we don't know anything now; a more accurate statement would be that it was legal "based on what we've been told."

What Do You Mean by Legal?

The other major problem with the debate is that people are throwing around assertions about what is and isn't legal without reference to the framework on which they're relying. Depending on which source of law one relies on, it's easy to come to dramatically different conclusions.

Natural Law

As an American and a New Yorker who grew up in the shadow of the World Trade Center, I am, despite some qualms, quite pleased that the U.S. was able to finally get bin Laden. That's the mainstream view; 80 percent of the American public has no problem with shooting bin Laden in the face.

Whether they know it or not, they are applying natural law to this question. Wikipedia defines it as “the use of reason to analyze human nature and deduce binding rules of moral behavior. The phrase natural law is opposed to the positive law (meaning 'man-made law'....) of a given political community, society, or nation-state....”

Those who claim that killing bin Laden was indisputably legal would be better served relying on natural law to make their case. It is difficult to argue that it was not justified on those terms. Unless you believe Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with dastardly acts of terror – and that's not limited to those perpetrated on September 11, 2001 – then he clearly “had it coming.” The righteousness of the killing perceived by the overwhelming number of Americans is not wrong, but it may not be justified by positive law – the laws of nation-states

MORE

http://www.alternet.org/story/150911/was_the_killing_of_osama_bin_laden_legal?akid=6950.127567.HombnT&rd=1&t=8





Offline Kilika

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The whole concept of American law is "innocent till proven guilty in a court of law". They must justify the killing by claiming bin Laden took some kind of aggressive action that may have been perceived as a threat to human life (which would make the shooters acting in self-defense), otherwise they cannot justify killing him. Part of the story is that they let children come out of the room before entering and shooting him. Put a .223 round in the shoulder of a frail 60 year old man and see how long he remains aggressive. He won't be threatening anybody, but he will survive to stand trial.

They need to clearly explain if they have video of it or not. Surely with such a high-value operation they had cameras on those guys. If they don't, somebody needs to explain why not with the technology that is in place already. That would mean somebody dropped the ball tactically.

Either way, they got some 'splainin' to do.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10 (KJB)

Offline Dig

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I think of the old Beatles song: “Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream,” because this is what Kerry asks us to do. Why should we bother with “realities” when we have the psychological refuge of unthinking patriotism?

I think too of an unnamed Bush administration official’s statement to Ron Suskind on the eve of the invasion of Iraq, contemptuously dismissing “what we call the reality-based community.” These are people, the official elaborated, who “believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.” He continued: “That’s not the way the world really works anymore. We’re  an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality, we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

That sort of sentiment remains alive and well in the Obama administration and the whole power structure. Empire creates its own realities, and wants everybody to shut up.

NICE WORK PROFESSOR LEUPP!!!!!!!!

Quote this guy if your friends/family will only listen to a liberal elite mainstream intellectual! His credentials break through the left/right-paradigm prison system our discourse has been sentenced to:


Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and holds a secondary appointment in the Department of Religion. He is the author of Servants, Shophands and Laborers in in the Cities of Tokugawa Japan; Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan; and Interracial Intimacy in Japan: Western Men and Japanese Women, 1543-1900. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's merciless chronicle of the wars on Iraq, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, Imperial Crusades.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline redeux

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NICE WORK PROFESSOR LEUPP!!!!!!!!

Quote this guy if your friends/family will only listen to a liberal elite mainstream intellectual! His credentials break through the left/right-paradigm prison system our discourse has been sentenced to:


Gary Leupp is Professor of History at Tufts University, and holds a secondary appointment in the Department of Religion. He is the author of Servants, Shophands and Laborers in in the Cities of Tokugawa Japan; Male Colors: The Construction of Homosexuality in Tokugawa Japan; and Interracial Intimacy in Japan: Western Men and Japanese Women, 1543-1900. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's merciless chronicle of the wars on Iraq, Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, Imperial Crusades.

...this is why every time we push in close to yanking down the curtain, another "self-reality" is created to reset the matrix...these guys are on autopilot.... but here is the key, they can RAPIDLY generate alternate realities, BUT THE HASTE OMITS LOGIC IN PLACES, that must be filled in at length for days weeks months, or years... their craft is to QUICKLY SPAWN THE ALT REALITY, TO PAINT WITH VERY WIDE BRUSH STROKES, THEN SEND IN THE DETAIL PAINTERS THAT MUST TRY TO FILL IN THE MISSING FORMS.... THE PROBLEM FOR THEM  IS, THAT WHEN THE RATE AT WHICH REALITIES ARE GENERATED BECOMES LARGE, IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE DETAIL PAINTERS TO FILL IN CREDIBLE DETAILS..... WE MUST PUSH BACK THROUGH RESEARCH AND INTER-SOCIAL NETWORKING AT THE GROUND FLOOR LEVEL..... THIS IS THEIR ACHILLES HEEL, THAT IS A RAPID TRUTH RESPONSE NETWORK OF FREEDOM FIGHTERS, THIS CAUSES THE REALITIES TO BECOME MORE "LOOSELY" FORMED AND EASILY DEBUNKED........THE REALITY FLUX WILL CAUSE A MELTDOWN
Protect your manhood, demand Testosterone..........

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International Libya Contact group illegitimate, Russia will not join – FM

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has once again declared the Russian view on the Western powers’ campaign in Libya, stating on Friday that the Contact group keeps violating the UN resolution which makes it beyond the law. The tactics the coalition propagates are unacceptable, Lavrov insists, and Russia will not join the group. Russian officials have persistently called on the international community to put paid to NATO strikes in Libya and turn to talks instead. Lavrov also urged the parties of the North African conflict to start political dialogue without preconditions as soon as possible.

Source--
http://rt.com/news/line/2011-05-13/#id9985

************

(NPR = National Pentagon Radio)

https://rt.com/usa/news/npr-calls-rt-anti-american/

NPR calls Russia Today anti-American
12 May, 2011, 19:52

National Public Radio’s syndicated program "On the Media" discussing the topic of Global Media Wars, portrayed RT as having an “extremely confrontational stance when it comes to US,” and alleged that the channel perpetrates an anti-American agenda.

­Secretary of State Clinton, while speaking this past March, said the US is on the losing side of a global information war, citing Russia Today as an example of a successful rival to American media.

Although CNN International (and, to a degree, BBC) monopolized the playing field in terms of news delivery for decades, new 24/7 information channels have emerged in recent years and have challenged the coverage of the mainstream media.

While RT is delighted to be recognized by NPR, their choice of expert used to profile the channel raises some questions about NPR’s own stake in the media war. NPR reached out to a student of Columbia University, Nathanael Massey, to get his take on the topic, which prompted him to analyze the coverage of RT and other international news outlets.

In the piece published by "On The Media", Mr. Massey lampoons RT for its lack of coverage of the death of Osama Bin Laden, claiming that RT neglected to touch on the subject for 12 to 24 hours. On the contrary, RT broadcast coverage of the matter that same evening. Should NPR attempt to condescend RT for their journalistic integrity, perhaps checking their facts before airing them erroneously would be in their own best interest.

Mr. Massey lauds RT for its innovative usage of the Web as a means of reaching out to their audience. When Mr. Massey goes on to critique the credibility of RT, however, he ranks the network a “1” on a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the lowest possible score. He quoted former CBS Moscow correspondent Jonathan Sanders, saying the station calls in guests on the “fringes of respectability.” Mr. Massey, though, fails to mention the names of some of RT’s most frequent experts—all of whom are of inarguable importance to American politics today. Presidential candidate Ron Paul, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, former UN Ambassador Jon Bolton are all frequent guests on RT programs, and it is hard to imagine that these prominent politicians would thus chose to appear on an anti-American fringe network. As of late, RT has conducted several exclusive interviews with Wikileaks founder Jullian Assange, arguably the most important person in the media world today.

If NPR and Mr. Massey would like to challenge the journalistic practices of RT, we ask that they make sure they report the facts before they attempt to identify an unruly agenda by means of falsified information. When NPR turns to a college student to misspeak on a subject as important as this, both National Public Radio and Mr. Massey are only accentuating the notion that, yes, perhaps American media is taking a backseat to other outlets in this information war.

When Broadcast Board of Governors Chairman Walter Isaacson said last year that America “can’t allow ourselves to be out-communicated by the enemy” in reference to RT, our correspondents made sure to speak to him about his exact intentions. And the outcome? That competition needs to exist among media outlets, said Isaacson. While we could not agree more, we are saddened to know that NPR could not take the high road and come to the horse’s mouth before analyzing our so-called “agenda.”

https://rt.com/usa/news/npr-calls-rt-anti-american/

Fyi - Webster Tarpley is a regular guest on RT.

Protean

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Obama Imperialist War-Coup-o-rama continues-------

Deja Vu? US fires 1st salvo in word war with Syria

RT Video--
http://youtu.be/901LXZWWL7Q

The U.S. is ramping up the pressure on Syria - with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton vowing Bashar Al-Assad's government will be held accountable for the violence. This comes on top of economic sanctions from the European Union. Many say the situation's mirroring the build up to the military intervention in Libya.

worcesteradam

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NPR = Rockefeller / corporate America

Offline bigron

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Disposable and Expendable

By William Bowles

 

May 12, 2011 — williambowles.info – Strategic Culture Foundation

Disposable: Osama
 

http://uruknet.com/?p=m77671&hd=&size=1&l=e






Offline bigron

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America's 'Pathetic' Joy Over bin Laden's Death

By José Blanco, Translated by Jason Ross


http://uruknet.com/?p=m77670&hd=&size=1&l=e

May 12, 2011

"It is the language of a bloodthirsty empire to speak of killing another the way one would speak of killing a poisonous insect. … Obama says without hesitation that the world will be a better place without Osama bin Laden - but an intensification of the war with al-Qaeda awaits us all."


It cuts straight to the bone to hear U.S. government leaders talking like gangsters - of killing and torture as if they were talking of champagne and canapés. They conjugate the verb "kill" as naturally as they "speak" or "sleep." Especially when applied to the "enemy alien," the alien, the cultural "other," the non-gringo. It is the language of a bloodthirsty empire to speak of killing another the way one would speak of killing a poisonous insect.

And this inconsistency also sounds petulant and glib. Obama says without hesitation that the world will be a better place without Osama bin Laden - but an intensification of the war with al-Qaeda awaits us all.

It has become increasingly clear that Osama bin Laden wasn't the active head of al-Qaeda ("the base", in Arabic), but merely its founder. Although of course, the whole of Yankee society must be persuaded that he was in effect a super-brain capable of controlling thousands of Islamists operating under the direct command of the great leader from his hovel in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A hole, as thousands of images have now shown, with bare walls that were falling apart and which has been dubbed "bin Laden's millionaire mansion."

"The base" is comprised of groups of Islamic fundamentalists who act on their own and carry out terrorist operations in a great many countries. Osama was nothing more than a symbolic personification - a product of the idiosyncrasies of an extremely heterogeneous and fractured society, for which the strongest and most unifying bond has always been to have a "clearly identified" external enemy. So this symbol, which no longer has value as an effective threat, has been murdered in cold blood, and the nation celebrates: pathetic.

Of course, the U.S. government and the imperialist political forces of that country are already seeking new and "extremely dangerous" enemies of "freedom."

Suite101.net has editorialized: "Although this is a great achievement, one cannot say it signifies the end of terrorism, since according to the experts, followers of al-Qaeda are much worse, as bin Laden's son asserted in an interview with ABC News some months ago." Well if that is so, it doesn't say much about the victory of bin Laden's death.

The empire and a good part of the Atlantic Alliance has at all times and with raised voice called for democracy and respect for human rights in all corners of the planet; but, in timely fashion, when circumstances and the moment has arrived and the "other" is not worthy of the word human by decision of the empire and hence has no human rights of any description, he is considered a poisonous lice that must be killed with a single swat.

CNN has adopted a discourse that is the very quintessence of imperial "thought": "In the decade since 9/11, many senior leaders and operatives of al-Qaeda have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, and other places. However, these countries remain at best fragile, and at worst, collapsing.   

"For the killing of Osama bin Laden to be a turning point rather than a Pyrrhic victory, the narrative of the event should avoid rhetorical tones about a 'war of ideas' or a 'fight for the soul of Islam' in favor of a more neutral and universal call for a global rule of law." What is this?

"That U.S. counter-terror officials were the ones to conduct his killing on the sovereign soil of another country is a very important signal. Many see the killing as a criminal violation of sovereignty and even "acting like God," - which is a prerogative no nation can claim for itself. This is false. It is a powerful symbol of our collective evolution that individual perpetrators are pursued for their crimes rather punishing entire societies in wars.

"In the past decade, international law has evolved so as to justify this type of direct intervention, if we were only able to act more quickly through the swamp of protocols and deliberations that we've invented. The doctrine of the Responsibility to Protect, ratified in 2005 by the U.N. General Assembly initiated a process to determine if the international community [read United States and its imperial allies] is obliged to intervene to prevent crimes against humanity. The central principle behind these institutions and agreements is that sovereignty is a responsibility, not a privilege."[translated quotes].

This is what the imperialists want now - to completely remove sovereignty from decisions made regarding a nation's own territory, and to enter, leave, kill, torture, and do what they please anywhere on earth that isn't recognized as "civilized" by the empire itself.

North Africa and the Middle East are becoming even more complex and contentious. With great difficulty, from Morocco to Syria, a profound social undercurrent with democratic characteristics and of far-reaching power and scope is making itself felt - and in the end, it will be this that brings down al-Qaeda, not the sophisticated weapons of the empire.

With luck, by "the end," the tyrants and their armies will have left the scene. Then will remain, on the one hand, societies stammering with budding democracies, and on the other, a rapacious empire and its allies seeking petroleum.

Mexico - La Jornada - Original Article (Spanish)

http://worldmeets.us/lajornada000144.shtml#axzz1MFk0DFVe


 

Offline bigron

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The quaint and obsolete Nuremberg principles


By Glenn Greenwald

 

Salon, May 13, 2011


http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/






Offline Dig

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The quaint and obsolete Nuremberg principles


By Glenn Greenwald

Salon, May 13, 2011

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

BEST TITLE ALL WEEK, that is hilarious even if Greenwald does not want to expose more about 9/11 truth.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline bigron

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Bin Laden Raid:

 
Operation Was Not Successful - Eye Witness Claims:


“We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing”


By Gordon Duff

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28110.htm

May 17, 2011 "Veterans Today" -- A Pakistan news agency reports that the bin Laden raid on Abbottabad was aborted because of a helicopter crash which killed several passengers, believed to be Pashtu speaking Americans.

Though this is from a news agency, it is an eyewitness account and unconfirmed. Veterans Today has received this story from several sources but most recently from our comments section. Thanks!

If this story is true, it would be a disaster for the Obama presidency, deeply paralleling the unsuccessful hostage rescue attempt in Iran during the Carter presidency.

If the story is true, our heartfelt sympathies for the families of those who may have died in this operation. As described below, the mission depicts real heroism and, despite political concerns and the usual finger pointing, represents, of all the stories told, something Americans can be proud of.

True or not, there is a unpleasant ring of reality in this story that is lacking in all others, a reality proven out by the helicopter wreckage found at the scene. This is the only real proof there was an operation at all.

A forensic examination of the scene and the wreckage, slated to be returned to the US by the Pakistani government, would easily either prove or disprove this account
 
 
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28110.htm




Offline bigron

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Osama bin Laden's Guns Found 'Only After' US Navy Seals Killed Him


• AP revelation fuels claims al-Qaida chief was illegally executed
• New account sheds light on sequence of US raid in Abbottabad
• Report comes amid news of clash between Nato and Pakistan


By Declan Walsh in Islamabad



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28117.htm

May 17, 2011 "The Guardian" -- The American soldiers who killed Osama bin Laden found his two guns only after he was dead, while they photographed his remains, according to a detailed new account of the al-Qaida leader's final moments.

The Associated Press revelation will add further fuel for critics who say US forces acted illegally in killing the unarmed Saudi fugitive. The Obama administration insists the shooting was lawful.

Meanwhile, US relations with Pakistan, already at their lowest point in a decade, have found a fresh point of friction following an exchange of fire between Nato and Pakistani forces along the Afghan border.

 
MORE

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28117.htm


 

Offline Dok

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Quote
Operation Was Not Successful - Eye Witness Claims:

“We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing”


HEY!!! now Obama says he has pics and vids. He wouldnt lie to us. Just like they have vids and pics of what hit the Penatagon. Its just a matter of National Security. Come on.... He wouldnt lie to us.  >:(




HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship ;)

Offline bigron

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Can Americans Be Unplugged?

The ongoing bin Laden saga

By Paul Craig Roberts




http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28109.htm

"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." - The Matrix (1999)

May 17, 2011 "Information Clearing House" -- -- The ever-changing, ever-growing bin Laden story becomes ever more preposterous. The cowardly bin Laden is now the vain bin Laden, the terror mastermind who has nothing to do but to sit and watch videos of himself.

Washington released a video of an alleged bin Laden indulging in self-admiration, but there is no sound. Why? Was the video made without sound? Did Washington delete the audio? The video seems to show the alleged bin Laden speaking to someone in the room. Is the voice not bin Laden’s? Is the alleged bin Laden referring to the image on the screen in the third person, as not himself? Why would bin Laden have a video made of himself watching videos of himself? Why is a video of bin Laden watching bin Laden a headline story? Is it meant to substitute for the absence of a corpse?

As one reader put it, “The government is playing with us, experimenting to see if there is any tall tale we won’t believe.”

The story keeps changing as to whether “bin Laden’s compound,” no longer a million dollar luxury mansion, had Internet and communications or relied on couriers. The latest installment is that bin Laden was online. Washington says that the raid delivered into its hands bin Laden’s emails and diary, which, Washington claims, show an active bin Laden directing his terror network to carry out more plots. If bin Laden was online, why did Obama have to find him by trailing a courier?

Somehow the SEALs grabbed bin Laden’s diary and emails, but left all sorts of other documents that allegedly have fallen into Pakistani hands. These left-behind documents now serve as a pretext for more disputes with Pakistan and another excuse for ignoring Pakistan’s protests about the military operations the US carries out in Pakistan, violating the sovereignty of the country.

Why would the SEALs leave behind so many precious documents? First they kill for no reason the mastermind who could have revealed the world of terror; then they depart, leaving terror records behind. Some will say that this is typical US government incompetence. So how did such an incompetent government find bin Laden?

Any documents left behind were most likely carried in by the SEALs as plants.
Has anyone independent of Washington examined the alleged bin Laden diary and confirmed that it was in bin Laden’s handwriting? These kind of questions are the kind the media, back when we had one, used to ask.

The bin Laden story is now such a fable with so many contradictory bits that people can pick and choose to suit the telling. Time magazine likes it all, except the part about an all-powerful bin Laden, still in control, rejecting an underling’s proposal “to fit a tractor with rotating blades to use to ‘mow down the enemies of Allah.’” Time prefers a bin Laden who was unsettled by his realization that he had lost his “historic significance” prior to losing his life to the US Navy SEALs.

If bin Laden had lost his significance, why did Obama get such a boost in the polls from his claim that he found bin Laden and had him killed?

The American Empire cannot do without bin Laden. The next installment of the fable will be that bin Laden escaped, leaving behind a double, and is abroad carrying out more terror plots.

As the fable continues, try to rescue from the Memory Hole the fact that we were presented with a death without a corpse and that Washington has no explanation for why an unarmed, undefended, frail man, who was a font of terrorist information, was murdered and not captured.

  
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28109.htm



Offline bigron

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'US killed Bin Laden clone in Pakistan'


Wed May 18, 2011 3:4PM

http://previous.presstv.ir/photo/20110518/z.hashemi20110518113947937.jpg

Former al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden

The US operation that allegedly killed Osama bin Laden in Pakistan has actually led to the death of a clone of the al-Qaeda leader, working under CIA operative Raymond Davis, an American editor says.


"The real bin Laden died years ago after receiving treatment in American hospitals for his various illnesses," said Gordon Duff, senior editor of Ohio-based Veterans Today, in an interview with Press TV's US Desk.

MORE


http://presstv.com/detail/180564.html



Offline bigron

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Is the US Driving the World Towards World War III:

Osama's Alleged Compound. How Many SEALs Died?


By Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, May 21, 2011

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24890


In a sensational and explosive TV report, the Pakistani News Agency has provided a live interview with an eye witness to the US attack on the alleged compound of Osama bin Laden. The eye witness, Mohammad Bashir, describes the event as it unfolded. Of the three helicopters, “there was only one that landed the men and came back to pick them up, but as he [the helicopter] was picking them up, it blew away and caught fire.” The witness says that there were no survivors, just dead bodies and pieces of bodies everywhere. “We saw the helicopter burning, we saw the dead bodies, then everything was removed and now there is nothing.”

I always wondered how a helicopter could crash, as the White House reported, without at least producing injuries. Yet, in the original White House story, the SEALs not only survived a 40-minute firefight with al Qaeda, “the most highly trained, most dangerous, most vicious killers on the planet,” without a scratch, but also survived a helicopter crash without a scratch.

The Pakistani news report is available on you tube. The Internet site, Veterans Today, posted a translation along with a video of the interview. Information Clearing House made it available on May 17. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28110.htm

If the interview is not a hoax and the translation is correct, we now know the answer to the unasked question: Why was there no White House ceremony with President Obama pinning medals all over the heroic SEALs who tracked down and executed Public Enemy Number One?

The notion that Obama had to keep the SEALs’ identity secret in order to protect the SEALs from al Qaeda detracts from the heroic tough guy image of the SEALs, and it strains credulity that Obama’s political handlers would not have milked the occasion for all it is worth.

Other than on the Veterans Today and ICH Internet sites, I have not seen any mention of the Pakistani news story. If the White House press corps is aware of the report, no one has asked President Obama or his press spokesperson about it. Helen Thomas was the last American reporter sufficiently brave to ask such a question, and she was exterminated by the Israel Lobby.

In America we have reached the point where anyone who tells the truth is dismissed as a “conspiracy theorist” and marginalized. Recently, a professor of nano-chemistry from the University of Copenhagen made a lecture tour of major Canadian universities explaining the research, conducted by himself and a team of physicists and engineers, that resulted in finding small particles of unreacted nano-thermite in dust samples from the wreckage of the World Trade Center towers in addition to other evidence that the professor and the research team regard as conclusive scientific proof that the towers were brought down by controlled demolition.

No American university dared to invite him, and as far as I know no mention of the explosive research report has ever appeared in the American press.

I find it astonishing that 1,500 architects and engineers, who actually know something about buildings, their construction, their strength and weaknesses, and who have repeatedly requested a real investigation of the destruction of the three WTC buildings, are regarded as conspiracy kooks by people who know nothing whatsoever about architecture or engineering or buildings. The same goes for the large number of pilots who question the flight maneuvers carried out during the attacks, and the surviving firemen and “first responders” who report both hearing and personally experiencing explosions in the towers, some of which occurred in sub-basements.

A large number of high-ranking political figures abroad don’t believe a word of the official 9/11 story. For example, the former president of Italy and dean of the Italian Senate, told Italy’s oldest newspaper, Corriere delia Sera, that the intelligence services of Europe “know well that the disastrous [9/11] attack has been planed and realized by the American CIA and the [Israeli] Mossad . . . in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in [the invasions].

Even people who report that there are dissenting views, as I have done, are branded conspiracy theorists and banned from the media. This extends into the Internet in addition to newspapers and TV. Not long ago a reporter for the Internet site, The Huffington Post, discovered that Pat Buchanan and I are critics of the Iraq and Afghanistan invasions. He was fascinated that there were some Reagan administration officials who dissented from the Republican Party’s war position and asked to interview me.

After he posted the interview on The Huffington Post, someone told him that I was not sound on 9/11. In a panic the reporter contacted me, demanding to know if I disbelieved the official 9/11 story. I replied that being neither architect, engineer, physicist, chemist, pilot, nor firefighter, I had little to contribute to understanding the event, but that I had reported that various experts had raised questions.

The reporter was terrified that he might somehow have given a 9/11 skeptic credibility and be fired for interviewing me about my war views for The Huffington Post. He quickly added at the beginning and, if memory serves, ending of the posted interview words to the effect that my lack of soundness on 9/11 meant that my views on the wars could be disregarded. If only he had known that I was unsure about the official 9/11 story, there would have been no interview.

One doesn’t have to be a scientist, architect, engineer, pilot or firefighter to notice astonishing anomalies in the 9/11 story. Assume that the official story is correct and that a band of terrorists outwitted not only the CIA and FBI, but also all 16 US intelligence agencies and those of our NATO allies and Israel’s notorious Mossad, along with the National Security Council, NORAD, air traffic control and airport security four times in one hour on the same morning. Accept that this group of terrorists pulled off a feat worthy of a James Bond movie and delivered a humiliating blow to the world’s only superpower.

If something like this really happened, would not the president, the Congress, and the media be demanding to know how such an improbable thing could have happened? Investigation and accountability would be the order of the day. Yet President Bush and Vice President Cheney resisted the pleas and demands for an investigation from the 9/11 families for one year, or was it two, before finally appointing a non-expert committee of politicians to listen to whatever the government chose to tell them. One of the politicians resigned from the commission on the grounds that “the fix is in.”

Even the two chairmen and the chief legal counsel of the 9/11 Commission wrote books in which they stated that they believe that members of the military and other parts of the government lied to the commission and that the commission considered referring the matter for investigation and prosecution.

Thomas Kean, chairman of the 9/11 Commission, said: “FAA and NORAD officials advanced an account of 9/11 that was untrue . . . We, to this day don’t know why NORAD told us what they told us . . . It was just so far from the truth.”

Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton said: “ We had a very short time frame . . . we did not have enough money . . . We had a lot of people strongly opposed to what we did. We had a lot of trouble getting access to documents and to people. . . . So there were all kinds of reasons we thought we were set up to fail.”

As far as I know, not a single member of the government or the media made an issue of why the military would lie to the commission. This is another anomaly for which we have no explanation.

The greatest puzzle is the conclusion drawn by a national audience from watching on their TV screens the collapse of the WTC towers. Most seem satisfied that the towers fell down as a result of structural damage inflicted by the airliners and from limited, low-temperature fires. Yet what the images show is not buildings falling down, but buildings blowing up. Buildings that are destroyed by fires and structural damage do not disintegrate in 10 seconds or less into fine dust with massive steel beams sliced at each floor level by high temperatures that building fires cannot attain. It has never happened, and it never will.

Conduct an experiment. Free your mind of the programmed explanation of the towers’ destruction and try to discern what your eyes are telling you as you watch the videos of the towers that are available online. Is that the way buildings fall down from damage, or is that the way buildings are brought down by explosives? Little doubt, many Americans prefer the official story to the implications that follow from concluding that the official story is untrue.

If reports are correct, the US government has gone into the business of managing the public’s perceptions of news and events. Apparently, the Pentagon has implemented Perception Management Psychological Operations. There are also reports that the State Department and other government agencies use Facebook and Twitter to stir up problems for the Syrian, Iranian, Russian, Chinese, and Venezuela governments in efforts to unseat governments not controlled by Washington. In addition, there are reports that both governments and private organizations employ “trolls” to surf the Internet and to attempt to discredit in blogs and comment sections reports and writers who are out of step with their interests. I believe I have encountered trolls myself.

In addition to managing our perceptions, much is simply never reported. On May 19, 2011, the fourteen-decade-old British newspaper, The Statesman, reported that the Press Trust of India has reported that the Chinese government has warned Washington “in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China,” and advised the US government “to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty.” http://www.thestatesman.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=370105&catid=35

As trends forecaster Gerald Celente and I have warned, the warmongers in Washington are driving the world toward World War III. Once a country is captured by its military/security complex, the demand for profit drives the country deeper into war. Perhaps this news report from India is a hoax, or perhaps the never-diligent mainstream media will catch up with the news tomorrow, but so far this extraordinary warning from China has not been reported in the US media. [I had it posted on OEN.]

The mainstream media and a significant portion of the Internet are content for our perceptions to be managed by psy-ops and by non-reporting. This is why I wrote not long ago that today Americans are living in George Orwell’s 1984.
 
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24890




Offline bigron

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Creating Evidence Where There Is None


By Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28760.htm

August 05, 2011 "Information Clearing House" - The New Yorker has published a story planted on Nicholas Schmidle by unidentified sources who claim to be familiar with the alleged operation that murdered Osama bin Laden.

There is no useful information in the story. Its purpose seems simply to explain away or cover up holes in the original story, principally why did the Seals murder an unarmed, unresisting Osama bin Laden whose capture would have resulted in a goldmine of terrorist information and whose show trial would have rescued the government’s crumbling 9/11 story?

The gullible Schmidle tells us: “‘There was never any question of detaining or capturing him--it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,’ the special-operations officer told me.” In other words, the SEALs murdered bin Laden, because the US government did not want detainees, not because trigger-happy stupid SEALs destroyed a font of terrorist information.

Why did the SEALS dump bin Laden’s body in the ocean instead of producing the evidence to a skeptical world? No real explanation, just that SEALS had done the same thing to other victims. Schmidle writes: “All along, the SEALs had planed to dump bin Laden’s corpse into the sea--a blunt way of ending the bin Laden myth.” But before they did so, the US checked with an unidentified Saudi intelligence operative, who allegedly replied, “Your plan sounds like a good one.”

I mean, really.

After all of Sy Hersh’s New Yorker revelations of US government lies and plots, one can understand the pressure that might have been applied to the New Yorker to publish this fairy tale. But what is extraordinary is that there was a real story that Schmidle and the New Yorker could have investigated.

In the immediate aftermath of bin Laden’s alleged murder by the SEALs, Pakistani TV interviewed the next door neighbor to bin Laden’s alleged compound. Someone supplied the video with an English translation running at the bottom of the video.

According to the translation, the next door neighbor, Mr. Bashir, said that he watched the entire operation from the roof of his house. There were 3 helicopters. Only 1 landed. About a dozen men got out and entered the house. They shortly returned and boarded the helicopter. When the helicopter lifted off it exploded, killing all aboard. Mr.
Bashir reports seeing bodies and pieces of bodies all over.

The US government acknowledges that it lost a helicopter, but claims no one was hurt.

Obviously, as there were no further landings, if everyone was killed as Mr. Bashir reports, there was no body to be dumped into the ocean.

A real investigation would begin with Mr. Bashir’s interview. Was he actually saying what the English translation reported?

Surely there is a qualified interpreter who can tell us what Mr. Bashir is saying. If the English translation that I saw is not a hoax, then we are presented with a story totally different from the one the government told us and repeated again through Mr. Schmidle.

If the English translation of Mr. Bashir’s interview is correct, one would think that there would be some interest on the part of US news organizations and on the part of the intelligence committees in Congress to question Mr. Bashir and his neighbors, many of whom are also interviewed on Pakistani TV saying that they have lived in Abbottabad all their lives and are absolutely certain that Osama bin Laden was not among them.

Mr. Schmidle goes to lengths to describe the SEALs’ weapons, although his story makes it clear that no weapons were needed as bin Laden is described as “unarmed” and undefended. The “startled” bin Laden didn’t even hear the helicopters or all the SEALs coming up the stairs. In addition to all his fatal illnesses which most experts believe killed him a decade ago, bin Laden must have been deaf as neighbors report that the sound of the helicopters was “intense.”

When Pakistanis on the scene in Abbottabad report a totally different story from the one that reaches us second and third hand from unidentified operatives speaking to reporters in the US who have never been to Abbottabad, shouldn’t someone qualified look into the story?


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article28760.htm




   

Offline kerrymti

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Very good article.  thanks.

Online TahoeBlue

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related?

US Govt ASSASSINATES 22 Members of Seal Team 6 to Cover Up Fake OBL Death Psyop

http://www.headlinenewsonline.com/headlinenews/news/afghanistan-helicopter-crash-its-a-big-loss-for-navy-seals

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/08/06/afghanistan.nato.helicopter.crash/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
U.S. official: About two dozen U.S. deaths in Afghan copter crash
By David Ariosto and Barbara Starr, CNN
August 6, 2011 1:23 p.m. EDT

Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- Most of those killed when a Chinook helicopter crashed in eastern Afghanistan overnight were U.S. Navy SEALs, two U.S. government officials said.
"It's a big loss" for the SEALs," one of the officials said. The numbers are high."
 
"It is believed that about two dozen Special Operations Forces, including some from other services, were on board the aircraft, in addition to the Army crew flying the craft."

Afghan President Hamid Karzai issued a statement saying as many as 31 U.S. special forces and seven Afghans were killed.
 
If the numbers are confirmed, the incident would be the most deadly for coalition forces in the Afghan war, according to a CNN count of international troop deaths.

Special forces have been conducting almost daily night-time raids against insurgent targets throughout Afghanistan. Saturday's crash took place in the eastern province of Wardak, an area rife with insurgent activity.
...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_AFGHANISTAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-08-06-06-27-19
...
None of the 22 SEAL personnel killed in the crash were part of the team that killed bin Laden in a May raid in Pakistan, but they belonged to the same unit. Their deployment in the Friday night raid in which the helicopter crashed would suggest that the target was a high-ranking insurgent figure.

Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty: For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole ; He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee. - Job 5

Offline bigron

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Pakistan TV Report Contradicts US Claim of Bin Laden’s Death

By Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

 
Global Research, August 6, 2011
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25915


In my recent article, “Creating Evidence Where There Is None,” about the alleged killing of Osama bin Laden by a commando team of US Seals in Abbottabad, Pakistan, I provided a link to a Pakistani National TV interview with Muhammad Bashir, who lives next door to the alleged “compound” of Osama bin Laden. I described the story that Bashir gave of the “attack” and its enormous difference from the one told by the US government. In Bashair’s account, every member of the landing party and anyone brought from the house died when the helicopter exploded on lift-off.  I wrote that a qualified person could easily provide a translation of the interview, but that no American print or TV news organization had investigated Bashir’s account.


An attorney with a British Master of Laws degree in international law and diplomacy, who was born in Pakistan, provided the translation below. He writes: “I have no problem with being identified as the translator, but would prefer to remain anonymous.”


The translator provides these definitions and clarifications:


"Gulley" is generally referred (in Urdu) to a sidewalk or pavement. Also for the space between two houses.


"kanal" is a traditional unit of land area, so that one kanal equals exactly 605 square yards or 1/8 Acre; this is equivalent to about 505.857 square meters.


Muhammad Bashir refers to himself as "We". This is common respectable language for the self; to use the plural term instead of singular. The English language equivalent would be the "Royal, We".


Urdu is the national language and lingua franca of Pakistan.



The translator:


I have translated the entire text of the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0vo-L3VACs

I have tried my best to keep words in a chronological order, but in some cases this is not possible, as in translation words must be replaced in reverse order to make sense! However, I have had to put a few words in brackets to clarify meaning. If you want to ask about any section - please supply time stamp and I will supply a contextual text.

Video Transcript:


welcome back! - Muhammad Bashir, Abotabad Area, Bilal Town resident, Looks like an ordinary person, but he is no ordinary person! Muhammad Bashir, lives in Abotabad's, Bilal Town Opposite Bin Laden's House.


Night of 2nd May Muhammad Bashir was on the roof of his house, whereupon, the entire OBL, American operation was seen with his own eyes.


Last night, when our team was in Abotabad, Bilal Town, near OBL house, Muhammad Bashir approached me and said that:
"Sister, I want to tell you something that is a great burden on my heart and conscience" - Listen to what he said:


00:59 Muhammad Bashir: I.. today... would like to comment about todays Abotabad operation events, until now, what I am about to say, no person has said.


01:08: Reporter: But, Muhammad Bashir sahib appeared frightened. While speaking to me, Muhammad Bashir sahib phoned his
relative; leader, M.E.A. of Jamaat-e-islami, Abotabad, Abdul Razaq Abaasi on the phone.


01:21: reporter: Tell me your name and where do you live?
Muhammad Bashir: - One minute, first I need to speak to him...I am going to give an interview, a complete interview. Shall I give a
complete interview or half?
Reporter: Complete! - complete!
Muhammad Bashir: I first need to phone him, I need to speak to him
Reporter: I could of...


01:39: Reporter: Muhammad Bashir sahib, on that night's events of the American operation, that took place, he expressed  such comments about circumstances that have never been expressed before, therefore, we checked his ID card, his place  of residence and we can confirm that he definitely lives there and we also approached senior politicians and asked about him, after hearing his comments, we were amazed - now you watch what he said.


01:57: Muhammad Bashir: The events that happened are thus; we were awake, we were not asleep.
02:00: Muhammad Bashir: a Helicopter came, and circled and dropped some people there.
02:07: Muhammad Bashir: in that house... where they are saying; Osama lives here, on that house's roof, they dropped people, after that, the helicopter returned and went back.
02:16: Reporter: How many people were they?
02:18: Muhammad Bashir: They were ten, twelve people
02:20: Muhammad Bashir: After that it left and for approximately 20 minutes, there behind us, on those mountains, it kept going around, the top of the mountains.
02:27: After 20 minutes, it returned. When it returned, at that time there were TWO more helicopters arrived. One came
from the West and one came from the North. When it approached for landing, after that...


At this point;Video cut and resumed:


02:41: Muhammad Bashir: that helicopter, there was an explosion within it and there was fire within it, immediately, we
came out and arrived there. When we arrived, the helicopter was on fire, it was burning. After that, about twenty
minutes later the Army arrived, the police arrived. They moved all of us back...
03:04: Muhammad Bashir: ...and all the people inside it, all of them...we think; if Osama was inside it, or inside this house - then who took him to the Americans?
03:16: Muhammad Bashir: Because America...the helicopters that America is saying; IT carried out the operation. If
America did this operation and it's army came and it's helicopter came, then that helicopter that came from the
American's, within that, all the people that came, those people with the explosion were finished, got destroyed!
03:35: Muhammad Bashir: Within it, there was fire, those people, all of them died!
03:39: and if Osama was there, they would have put him in the helicopter. Obviously, if the helicopter caught fire,
Osama could have died there. If their own people were gone, (dead) so could have Osama. After that, the fallen helicopter was
destroyed after this, how can Osama be, with them in America? this is a strange thing!


Video cut & resumes
03:59: Muhammad Bashir: They are saying we killed Osama here. After that, they picked him up and took him away.
04:04: Muhammad Bashir: PICKED HIM UP AND TOOK HIM AWAY - how did they do this? This, what we are thinking!
04:07: Muhammad Bashir: The Americans' helicopter that came, that fell here and got destroyed!
04:09: Reporter: There was only ONE helicopter?
04:11: Muhammad Bashir: ONE helicopter landed down here, the second helicopter came from above and went towards Mansera.
It did not land. No second helicopter landed!
04:20: Only ONE helicopter, that first dropped it's passengers, the SAME returned to pick the people and there was an
explosion within it.
04:27: Reporter: People were inside it?
04:29: Muhammad Bashir: People were inside it!
04:30: Reporter: How do you know this?
04:32: Muhammad Bashir: These people, we seen them all
04:34: Reporter: In the helicopter... you saw dead people?
04:36: Muhammad Bashir: We saw dead people!
04:38: Reporter:How many people?
04:39: Muhammad Bashir: This, we could not count, within the compound there was fire.
04:43: Muhammad Bashir: and we... the gate was open, we entered the gate, at that time the Army had not arrived.
04:48: Muhammad Bashir: Police had not arrived. Some people from the agencies, were present, but they did not prevent
anybody, they kept entering, every person was looking , now, nobody is saying, but everyone from the mohalla (neighbourhood) and all the people present from the mohalla arrived first. We saw the gate open, we entered inside,
saw the burning helicopter, the people inside were dead. After that everything was lifted. Now, there is nothing there!
05:16: Reporter: How many dead bodies did you see?
05:18: Muhammad Bashir: Look, you cannot count, the dead bodies were in pieces everything else was broken pieces, some
here, some there, some broken, some half, some like this.
05:27: Reporter: Tell me fully - what happened?
06:30: Reporter: Tell me the full events
05:31: Muhammad Bashir: I told you, this is...
05:32: Reporter: You did not...I cannot believe this, that's why.
05:36: Muhammad Bashir: Look, what I have said - that's it!


Video Cut!
05:39: Reporter: When you saw the American craft, (Helicopter) what did you think, why they came here?
05:42: Muhammad Bashir: We thought... this is it...why did they came? we thought why did they come? maybe..we... did not
expect them to do anything, we thought maybe our Army is arriving at some centre and the army people were sleeping,
there was no explosions or events taking place, nothing was happening, everybody was sleeping, for 20 minutes or so...
06:05: Reporter: The craft landed in front of your house, how did you feel about this?
06:08: Muhammad Bashir: I thought..just...understand...imagine..we thought we're dead!


Video cut:
06:13: Reporter: But, how did the Americans return?
06:16: Muhammad Bashir: This is what I am saying; their Craft came and the helicopter was destroyed, HOW, could they return?
06:22: Reporter: Tell me this; you say, that you saw the dead bodies yourself....
06:25: Muhammad Bashir: one more thing, Madam, may I tell you;The people who were dropped from the craft, That walkway ... that
..where our gates are...they banged them hard...and shouted... don't come out...don't do this, don't do that, if you come
out you will be shot..we will do this, we will do that, all the people who were dropped, all of them spoke Pashtu
(Afgahni Language) - Pakhtun!
06:49: Reporter: Who were these people?
06:49: Muhammad Bashir: This I do not know! Those who were dropped from the craft (helicopter), those people.
06:54: Reporter: This, somebody else told me - that they spoke Pashtu.
06:57: Muhammad Bashir: They WERE Pashtun! we do not know if they were working for the Americans, we do not know if they
were working for Pakistan, we do not know if they were army people or civilian, what people, BUT they SPOKE PASHTU!
07:07: Reporter: You said you heard they were asking for Osama?
07:09: Muhammad Bashir: No, they didn't ask me about Osama, they just said, do not come out, if you come out from your
house, we will shoot you!
07:16: Reporter: Were these Pakistani people?
Muhammad Bashir: who?
07:18: Reporter: The ones who were saying that if you come out, we will shoot you.
07:20: Muhammad Bashir: They said that in Pashtu!
07:22: Reporter: so did they..were you coming out...exactly where were you, where was you standing when this happened?
07:26: Muhammad Bashir: Inside the house, on top of the roof, I was not in the house, just on top of the (flat)roof
07:29: Reporter: from Above the roof these people in the helicopter...
07:30: Muhammad Bashir: I was on the roof, sitting, no, lying down, on the roof,lying and watching this and what was
happening
07:37: Reporter: Fear, was you not afraid? did you not think to phone someone?
07:40: Muhammad Bashir: From the house, They were calling me from downstairs, the children were calling me, come down,
come down, and I told them stop making noise! go into your rooms, I am watching what is happening. Afterwards, I found
out about this, that, Osama was killed here!
07:53: Reporter: How did you get inside? (the compound)
Muhammad Bashir: where?
Reporter: when there was fire.
Muhammad Bashir: the gate was open, when there was fire, the gate was open.
08:02: Reporter: The house gate was open?
08:03: Muhammad Bashir: The outer gate, the big gate, was open.
08:06: Reporter: You came from upstairs to downstairs?
08:08: Muhammad Bashir: I came down, from my own house into the gulley, I didn't go alone inside the other house, 200 other people went inside! Everybody saw it!
08:15: Reporter: All 200 saw the dead bodies?
08:17: Muhammad Bashir: Everybody saw this.Whoever went inside they saw everything!
08:20: Reporting:the events at that time that are in your mind, please express them.
08:28: Muhammad Bashir: I have told you this and this, in my mind, this is what I have seen, when we were there, when we
entered the gate, When the helicopter exploded, it scattered everywhere, one piece fell over there, one fell here, one
here, a lot of pieces fell in the gulley outside, they reached up to the gulley and our house and also some pieces managed to reach onto my roof. so, the area of the open space there (in front of the house) is about four Kanal in
size. It is a very large compound. You cannot see all of it from one location. Four Kanal is a big area, only in a small area you could possibly see everything. There I saw some people, in broken pieces, someone's leg, someone's arm,
someone's torso, someone's head. Beside this, I did not see intensely, who are they, how are they, because I thought that one of our own craft had fallen and the people within it were our own people. Because they spoke Pashtu they could be pakistani.
09:35: Muhammad Bashir: but language does not necessarily mean.. by speaking it...the American language could be spoken, the agents can speak all sorts of languages. It could be that it is the American army and they could speak Pashtu and the people would think that it is our own people.
09:54: Reporter: Seeing the dead bodies - did you not feel fear?
09:57: Muhammad Bashir: But we were thinking about ourselves at the time, but seeing the dead bodies who felt  frightened?
10:00: Reporter: When you went inside, what did you do after that, how did you come out?
10:02: Muhammad Bashir: we came out, our Army reached there, when the army arrived, they moved all the people back. Move
aside, move aside! So we moved aside.Then they closed the area down.
10:13: Reporter: did Rais see this?
Muhammad Bashir: What?
Reporter: where was your cousin?
10:18: Muhammad Bashir: My cousin was at that time in the house.
10:20: Reporter: Did he go with you?
10:21: Muhammad Bashir: He was with me, but I did not notice when he was picked up.
10:28: Reporter: Has he returned yet?
10:29: Muhammad Bashir: Yes, he has returned. They picked him up and took him away.
10:32: Reporter: What is he saying?
10:34:Muhammad Bashir: I have not met him yet, he is at home they will not let him come out, we are not allowed to visit him, they will not let him come out.We have not met.
10:40: Reporter: You was not able find out, but since when have you been allowed out.
10:45: Muhammad Bashir: I did not go home, by going home...
Reporter:You have seen the fire you have seen the bodies how long did you stay there?
Muhammad Bashir: approximately, after five or six minutes, I left and came out..five, six minute..what happened .... the reason we left, was that after we entered, there was another small explosion, I do not know if the engine fail and
there was another fire, it was a small explosion, after this explosion all the people ran out.
11:06: Muhammad Bashir: when we went out, nobody let us go back in again.
11:11: Reporter: Besides you, why is nobody else saying these things? why are you alone in this?
11:16: Muhammad Bashir: Look, what we have seen, that is what we are saying and we are speaking for this reason that, we are sad that such humble and nice people of our town, that has never seen such events, no fighting, no arguments, no animosity, No murders, such nice people of ours in this town and they have been branded as terrorists.
11:43: Reporter: Tell me; two helicopters came, lifted and took the rest of the people?
11:46:Muhammad Bashir: No - they did not take the rest of the people, because they did not even land, One came from the West and it left towards the North, the one that came from the North, left towards the South. They did not land!



12:00: Studio Reporter: these events that we showed you from Abotabad, there are many more things that we discovered about the compound where OBL was staying, there were vegetables planted there, what kind of vegetables, the person who grows the vegetables is the cousin of this person (Muhammad Bashir), whose interview we have shown. An extraordinary
thing that he has said and he has sworn repeatedly on the veracity of his statement. this is from his own account and upon this account do view this. Yesterday we found out and it has been confirmed that there were two Ashfaq's who lived there (in the compound):Mr Arshad and Mr Tariq who went shopping locally and used to buy international brands, the items they found in the house, dry dates, dried meat and things like this, this person who you saw in the
interview in his house there was food from OBL's house, he was given Kaabli Pillau (Rice) and such items were presented to him, There the view of local mosque people, what they think of OBL all these things we will present to
you in an exclusive program an important newsbeat, todays time is finishing, do write to us at newsbeat@samaa.tv where you can get other information as well and you can join us at newsbeat with Fareeha Idrees thats my favourite bit, do
write to us, the time is up now, By your permission to leave, take care of yourself, In Allah's care.


13:20: Reporter: I am now at standing in front of Abdullah Bin Zubair Mosque, this is the same mosque that is within walking distance from OBL's house. Are you saying that if people found out that OBL was living here, would they be happy?
1st man: Possibly, people could be happy.
2nd man: He wasn't living here, but he was a Muslim, he believed in Allah.


End of translation



Anyone fluent in Urdu who wishes to dispute the translation should do so.


I asked the translator if he might contact the Pakistani news organization and inquire if the reporters had further investigated Bashir’s story. He replied that he could do so, but exactly 24 hours later “for some unknown reason” the news organization started to discredit Bashir by connecting “him to his cousin, who is accused of receiving foodstuffs from the household of OBL.” 


Bashir’s cousin is the person who, according to the reporter (see 12:00 time line)
had a vegetable garden inside the wall of the alleged bin Laden compound. Is it likely that with a hunted and dangerous person hiding within, locals would be permitted to have vegetable gardens inside the compound?  The cousin’s vegetable garden obviously had to be redefined as “receiving foodstuffs from OBL.”


The translator offers his view on the 13:20 timeline:


“The final seconds of the video clip contain random people to generate and show some kind of sympathy with OBL in the district.


“It would be very difficult to find people in Pakistan who sympathise with OBL or the Taliban. The only people who do sympathise are the poor illiterate people who do not know about the religion and can easily be convinced of a distorted version of Islam.
Therefore, the closing part of the video contains, out of context expressions:


“1st man: Possibly, people could be happy. (Meaning it is possible that SOME people could be happy.)
2nd man: He wasn't living here, but he was a Muslim, he believed in Allah. (Meaning; he claimed to be Muslim, so he must have believed in Allah.)


“Therefore, it seems that although initially, the TV station was overjoyed with this interview, they changed their tune, twenty four hours later. (for some unknown reason.)”



Readers can arrive at their own conclusions.  It seems clear that under intense pressure and serious threats from the US government, the Pakistani government fell in line with the US government’s claim that a commando raid had killed bin Laden and all had returned safely, and that the TV news organization also got the message to get in line.


It is likely that the many witnesses who observed the dead from the helicopter crash have been warned to keep quiet. However, a news organization, should one be so inclined, could certainly interview Bashir and the 200 others who saw the dead bodies. A good reporter, perhaps accompanied by trained psychologists, would be able to tell if people were lying out of fear and encourage some to speak anonymously.


I am confident that no news organization believes that it could confront such an important US national myth in this way.  The killing of bin Laden satisfies the emotional need for revenge and justice.  In the least, a news organization that challenged the government’s story would be cut off from all government sources and be denounced by politicians and a large percentage of the US population as an anti-American terrorist-serving organization.


OBL’s death will remain one of those many “truths” that rest on nothing but the government’s word.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25915


Offline bigron

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EXECUTION OF BIN LADEN: “That’s Not Osama”: Neighbor. “It’s all a fake, nothing happened”

 
Global Research, August 7, 2011
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25924

BBC 


To view the original BBC report (May 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13329078



A neighbor of dead terrorist leader Osama bin Laden says the man seen in new videos released by the US government is actually a friend of his and not the Al Queda founder. “His name is Akhbar Khan (Han), He owns the house that was Osama’s house. I know him very well,” a Pakistani man named Shabir told the BBC.  Shabir says he is his a neighbor of the man. “It’s all a fake, nothing happened,” Abbottobad resident Mohammed, who has been selling newspapers in the two for the last 50 years, told the BBC.

Out of the 50 Abbottobad residents interviewed by the BBC, only one believed that Osama bin Laden was in their town. Others claimed the pictures and video of bin Laden in his home are fakes made with a computer.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25924