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Author Topic: NY Times Attempts to Subvert and Deride the Constitution via “Birther” Issue  (Read 1139 times)
WakeUpAmerica
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« on: April 22, 2011, 09:47:49 PM »

Another one of my articles... this one got me pretty heated...

In a NY Times article posted yesterday, we witness yet another special interest press outlet’s attempts to demonize, marginalize, and deride those who care about the documents upon which our Nation was founded. In the article, they fail to ever mention the fact that it is Constitutionally required that any president of the United States be born in America. It is that simple. There is no “birther” debate here, it is a debate between those who unquestioningly support the Constitution, and those who seek to subvert it. This is exactly the same as people attempting to pass so-called “hate speech” legislation, which is in reality nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to override the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Just read how they characterize so-called “birthers” AKA Constitutionalists who think that we should follow laws instead of whatever the special interest media decide we should believe in.


Read the rest and give me feedback if you'd like!
http://endthelie.com/2011/04/22/ny-times-attempts-to-deride-the-constitution-via-birther-issue/
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 04:03:29 PM »

You're going to have to provide more proof to support your position as nothing you posted supports it. Militias no longer exist so your point that the constitution was erected to support the oppression of the people has no basis in reality. Nowhere in the constitution is violence and deceit approved of as far as I can tell.

You're going to have to back up your statements not by saying "there is tons of evidence" but actual source material.
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 08:58:00 PM »

You've only shown shady circumstances surrounding the actual creation of the constitution which has absolutely nothing to do with your claims. The secrecy of a creation of a document has zero relevance when it comes to the actual effects of the document itself. You made the following claims:
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1. Move all surplus wealth (power) from those who create it to those who steal it, them, the legal criminals who operate the thing they created, and the thing they perpetuate with their Constitution.
2. Use the power they steal to eliminate competition where ever, and when ever, competition arises.
3. Govern the production of surplus wealth down to a scarcity, so as to maintain a manageable  level of surplus wealth.
4. Crime. By any other name, such a legal crime, or dictatorship, remains the same thing: willful plans, followed by willful actions, designed to injure innocent people, for profit, or just for fun.
1. surplus wealth =/= power but if you want to be purely materialistic about it then sure, but what does that have to do with the constitution? Where in the constitution does it provide for surplus wealth taken from "those who create it" (which is fallacious since surplus wealth isn't created by working, it is created by printing currency and awarding it for work or goods. Wealth cannot be created any more than energy can)? Where in the constitution does it allow banks to rob America blind? (hint: it doesn't) Where does it allow robber-barons to monopolize and crush competition through regulation under the guise of free trade and capitalism? (hint: it doesn't).
2. The constitution provides absolutely no basis for this claim. There is no constitutional precedent for the elimination of competition.
3. Nor does it have anything at all to do with surplus wealth production or artificial scarcity
4. How on Earth is a directly elected official who can be impeached a dictator? (of course a strict constitutionalist would likely reject the entire concept of an electoral college as it eliminates direct election and direct representation in the executive branch, but at least we can still directly elect other representatives although it is only possible to really put in massively different candidates at a limited local level as those who follow corporate interests get all of the funding to run flashy PR campaigns to win massive amounts of votes).

Again, you're not providing any evidence for the original claims you made, you just continue to expound, conflate, and tagentiate until it is nearly impossible to see what your point even really is. I don't mean to be insulting but I found this to be the case with almost anything you write. I take it you have not had a theological, philosophical, or psychological education, or at least not in the modern sense as the conflationary opaque quality created by your presentation muddies your point until it is diluted beyond any and all recognition. Maybe it is just me but I would recommend being direct and succinct, no longer is it tacitly academically revered to be as excessively verbose as humanly possible, in fact it is rebuked in most academic circles I am aware of nowadays. Sorry I got off topic there but if you seek to convince people of your point of view and write compelling articles I think you could work on it.
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yon
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 01:21:16 AM »

Another one of my articles... this one got me pretty heated...

In a NY Times article posted yesterday, we witness yet another special interest press outlet’s attempts to demonize, marginalize, and deride those who care about the documents upon which our Nation was founded. In the article, they fail to ever mention the fact that it is Constitutionally required that any president of the United States be born in America. It is that simple. There is no “birther” debate here, it is a debate between those who unquestioningly support the Constitution, and those who seek to subvert it. This is exactly the same as people attempting to pass so-called “hate speech” legislation, which is in reality nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to override the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Just read how they characterize so-called “birthers” AKA Constitutionalists who think that we should follow laws instead of whatever the special interest media decide we should believe in.


Read the rest and give me feedback if you'd like! http://endthelie.com/2011/04/22/ny-times-attempts-to-deride-the-constitution-via-birther-issue/

 Well said. And this will always be the case with those who hate what you're saying - not because it's not true but quite the contrary - because it exposes their unsupportable position and them as well as fools or worse. So rather than admit that they might have something to learn they will label you as the very thing that they themselves are guilty of in order to sidetrack the issue. And as such certain groups are now insulated from criticism or even possible indirect references to their behavior because "it might offend."   But they can offend all they want with impunity. 
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Ezekiel 33:25

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 “You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood. Should you then possess the land?"
WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 06:39:01 AM »

What a massive wall of text! Again, most of it was semantics and you taking things personally so I will gladly skip over it except to point at that this:
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Why am I being blamed, found guilty of, "picking apart my points based mostly upon semantics"? Show one example, stand by it, and how can that diversion from the topic work out?
was followed by you saying this:
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Who is the "you" in that sentence? Is the "you" in that sentence in fact me, the target here, me, Joe Kelley, is that the "you" in that sentence, yes or no?

I need confirmation on that point before I can proceed to resolve this contention as to the nature of those words, what do they mean? English language is used, but what do the words mean? What does "you" mean? Does "you" mean the actual person authoring the word "materialistic" which is not me, or does "you" mean me, the target of the false claim that someone is being "purely materialistic about it"?

What do those words mean, and what is the meaning of those words that won't be one meaning now, and a different meaning later?
There is your evidence, thanks for proving my point. Now anyways back to your original contentions:
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To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
As I said before a militia no longer exists so this is quite irrelevant but I will address it anyways. The calling forth of a militia to execute the laws of the union is necessary. If 50% of the people decided to run around raping, murdering, and razing cities would you just sit by and twiddle your thumbs hoping it sorts itself out or call upon a militia? The same goes with an insurrection, if there was a small group of radical communists, Islamists, whatever-ists who decided to start murdering and destroying everything, who would suppress them? Would you rather them run wild until the movement fizzles out as they usually do? And you would also not support the formation of a militia to repel invasions from foreign troops?

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No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
I'm no Constitutional lawyer but this seems pretty clearly not just applicable to slavery or indentured servitude. If a person is held to serve or labour in one state (which could be a contract or debt of some kind) they cannot flee into another state and due to a law or regulation in the second state have the contract or debt be voided. This prevents two states with conflicting laws having the problem of people walking over the border to nullify a debt or contract.

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The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
In quoting this are you attempting to say that the United States should be held responsible to pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States? So if the previously mentioned exemplar group of extremists runs around destroying cities and murdering thousands of people the people of the united states should shoulder the debt incurred by those damages?

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The Constitution was, is, and continues to be the Police State, or consolidated government, or dictatorship, or whatever words accurately, without ambiguity, without resort to constructive interpretation, without resort to character assassination, without resort to deceit, without resort to threats of violence, and without resort to executions of violence, describe, whatever words describe what The Constitution was intended to be, which is, and will continue to be, crime hidden behind the color of law, or legal crime.
...and you've still yet to point out how the original Constitution "continues to be the police state, or consolidated government, or dictatorship". Furthermore how do you know what the constitution was intended to be? That is pretty presumptuous of you, especially when you provide three pieces of source material all of which fail to make your point clear.
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 05:00:14 PM »

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A question can be dodged, or a question can be answered. When a question is not answered, and instead the question is quoted and said to be an example of "proviing my point", then the question quoted is not answered, rather, the question quoted is dodged. The failure to communicate is willful. The person failing to answer the question willfully dodges the question, but that is not enough, the question asked is propped up, falsely, as a claim of some nebulous proof of some other false representation.
I didn't dodge your question, I provided a direct example of you using semantics to attempt to refute my argument instead of refuting the actual argument or the logic behind it.

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It is your power that perpetuates legal torture, as more and more of your type add to the total power focused toward what you are doing right now. It is this abject refusal to know the facts, and this contorted disinformation campaign of willful production of falsehood that covers the true nature of the crimes, not limited to willful torture, not limited to willful mass murder, and reaching for the extinction of the human species.
Wait, I'm the one attempting to character assassinate? You're sitting here saying that I support legal torture, refuse to know the facts, and willfully produce falsehoods in covering up the reach for the extinction of the human species. It is pretty ironic when you go on and on about insulting people, character assassination, etc. and then throw out this slew of ad hominem baseless attacks.

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This person is ratcheting up the personal attacks, to a much higher degree.
How is putting for a hypothetical situation (which you never addressed) "ratcheting up the personal attacks, to a much higher degree"?

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Does anyone else see the dodge going on here? The twisting of facts? The willful distortions? The so called government, from day one, covered up their abuse of the law power with The Constitution. Today isn't any different, it is the same thing, what was then, is now, and it isn't a surprise. All the bad, of what is now, was reported to be what will be by the people who opposed The Constitution. This is what the thing was made to do, this is the result of the plan, as it was planned to occur.
I didn't distort anything, you failed to address the hypothetical situation in which such measures would be necessary. Who is doing the distortion?

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The character assassin is following orders, as he has already confessed.
Oh really? Man, you don't even try to veil your hypocrisy, do you?

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There can never be admission of the facts, no such thing can exist, either you are with us, or you are a terrorist. I can now read that loud and clear.
You are projecting and creating division and a terrorist boogeyman where none exists.

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That whole doom day parade, with those lurking fictional terrorists, is not in my world. I don't accept that legal fiction, because it is false, it is a false front, and I know what the false front covers up.  A little bird didn't tell me, the criminals confessed, and fellow friends of liberty uncovered and reported those facts.
What does this have to do with anything? When did I mention the fictional terrorist boogeymen like al Qaeda?

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Blind obedience, or just a willful effort to be ignorant, for now?
Aaand more hilariously ironic insults!

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If they find cause to censor me, which is most likely your plan, then so be it.
Oh look, more!

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The price that may have to be paid, for acceptance into the club of those who are exceptional, those who are, at least for a time, not on the list, to be punished, collectively, the price for that exceptional treatment, may be a requirement, for the petitioner, to parrot the cover stories, to add to the power that employs collective punishment, perpetuating it.
Even more!

You are resorting to childish ad hominem attacks and have yet to address ANY of the hypothetical situations I put forth or any of the holes I have found in your argument. You just continue to parrot the same lines about legal criminals, violence, threats of violence, etc. Unless you can start putting forth some real evidence and employ a debate tactic in which you actually address my points and don't devolve into accusations, proclamations, and insults, I really have no interest in continuing to try and understand your dogmatic position.
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 09:14:17 PM »

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As far as I know the people running the monopoly government, U.S.A. Inc. (LLC), hire fellow criminals to pose as agent provocateurs, which isn't a new thing, and they don names that work best at the moment, any name will do, so long as the name works for the moment. Sometimes the name has to be switched or the lie is caught, as, reasonably, you cannot both support an enemy and oppose an enemy at the same time, which would be akin to giving money to someone for protection from them.
Ah, so you think that the only criminals in the world are supported by the government. Honestly I can't even believe you're still posting. You purport to be putting forth another option yet offer nothing. You express disdain for me creating a hypothetical situation with two choices while you do nothing except say how criminal and dictatorial the constitution is. Why should I listen to someone that just attacks my ideas, won't address any of my points, and won't even offer a differing option.

Sigh.

I am going to start appropriating your mantra in response to your banality, "What's the point?"
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WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2011, 05:40:34 PM »

It's amazing you can write so much without actually addressing any of my questions.
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yon
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 06:34:11 PM »

It's Not Just The Birth Certificate

"A Martian could have gotten a Certificate of Live Birth in Hawaii back then and probably still could.

Still hidden by Barry Soetoro and using millions of dollars to do so:

A. Long Form Birth Certificate

B. School Records & Papers / Elementary, High School, Occidental College, Columbia University, Harvard University, Harvard Law Review.

B1. Scholar Papers.

C. Adoption Papers.

D. Official Name Change Paperwork.

E. Arrest Records.

F. C.I.A. Employment Records.

G. Passport Records.

H. Multiple Illegal Social Security Numbers.

And where are the ex-girlfriends? There are none, he is homosexual.[/b]


He is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN in any regard.

We can finally get him in prison and making big rocks into little rocks with a sledgehammer.

Barry Soetoro holds dual citizenship, or maybe no citizenship, and is therefore completely and forever ineligible to be President of the United States, due to his birth father being a foreign national Kenyan and subject of the British Crown at the time. But wait, it gets even better. Later, Lil' Barry was adopted by another foreign citizen while living in Indonesia.

And being adopted by a foreign citizen while in Indonesia and his mother dropping him as a dependent removed ANY claim of American Citizenship and made him ineligible.

This is why Barry, as he usurped the Presidency, nearly set a pen on fire by signing so fast and furiously an Executive Order that always and forever makes secret his personal records.

It will make for a barren Presidential Library. In the future, if Barry manages to keep himself from impeachment and conviction, you will enter his Presidential Library and see a posterboard with a single picture of baby Barry glued onto it, then a few steps further you will enter a gallery that says "Now here is President Obama", you will just have to use your willing suspension of disbelief and ignore that 40 plus year gap. LOL!

Barry Soetoro has knowingly and willingly usurped the Office of the President of the United States.

This is absolutely TREASON.

Knowingly and willingly complicit in this TREASON committed by Barry in FAILING to qualify the Prsident is the DNC, U.S. House of Representatives, U.S. Senate, Dick Cheney as President of the Senate, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, the 50 States Attorney Generals, and the Electoral College (with the exception of one lady member who was rightly suspicious of Barry Soetoro and withheld her vote).

ALL are guilty of TREASON.


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1459947/pg1
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eliyah.com, yrm.org, bibletruth.cc, nazarite.net, watchmanscry.com - halleluyahscriptures.com

Ezekiel 33:25

"Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says Yahweh Elohim,

 “You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood. Should you then possess the land?"
yon
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 06:43:41 PM »

Politics Bring U.S. Close to ‘Class War,’ Stockman Says in NYT
By Jonathan Keehner - Apr 24, 2011 12:32 PM ET

"Bipartisan politics are bringing the U.S. close to class war and deepening the fiscal stalemate, David Stockman wrote in an op-ed article published in today’s New York Times. The fiscal condition of the U.S. requires higher taxes on the middle class, not just the richest two percent, and entitlement reform requires means-testing Social Security and Medicare programs, not just squeezing smaller areas like Medicaid and food stamps, Stockman wrote.

President Barack Obama has denied the first point while Representative Paul D. Ryan, chairman of the House Budget Committee, contradicted the second by putting the entire burden of entitlement reform on the poor, according to Stockman............."

 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-04-24/politics-bring-u-s-close-to-class-war-stockman-says-in-nyt.html
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eliyah.com, yrm.org, bibletruth.cc, nazarite.net, watchmanscry.com - halleluyahscriptures.com

Ezekiel 33:25

"Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says Yahweh Elohim,

 “You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood. Should you then possess the land?"
WakeUpAmerica
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 01:46:19 PM »

Quote
constructed to render the power that opposes criminal government powerless
If a person fails to prove a single point and continues to blather on about the same crap without proving a single thing, their opinion is worthless in my view. You're welcome to delude yourself and convince yourself of whatever you'd like but I prefer to live in reality, thanks.
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