** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan

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Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »


Sometimes I wonder why I even bother creating threads like the following, because it's as if 99% of the population are hell-bent on finding everything out the hard way.

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=199144.0
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2011, 10:49:08 AM »


  Even Rand Paul or Ron Paul couldn't balance the budget in 5 years or 100 years.  There are to many people on the dole and tens of millions that don't even pay taxes.  AMERICA, ECONOMICALLY, IS GONE!!!
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 11:21:13 AM »
I suggest we all read this before poo pooing it!

The point is that WE MUST GET SPENDING UNDER CONTROL, AND AT LEAST HE IS ATTEMPTING TO TAKE ACTION TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM! He's not sitting on his butt and doing nothing like 99% of the Senate always does, unless it's something they are doing for their MASTERS!  ::)

This guy is a true leader, and appears to be extremely intelligent (something that was missing in Congress, especially the Senate) and has done more in his 3 months in office than most have done in the Senate their whole careers. THIS GUY IS A MAN OF ACTION, AND HE IS PROVING IT DAILY. YOU HAVE TO RESPECT HIM FOR THAT!

Don't you think it would be wise to give him a chance, instead of poopooing him out of the gate? The old Senate was a joke, and you both know that! COME ON!
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2011, 11:25:50 AM »
This guy is a true leader

If his policy proposal is based on flawed assumptions (and it is), all the hero worship in the world won't change that.

Quote
Don't you think it would be wise to give him a chance, instead of poopooing him out of the gate? The old Senate was a joke, and you both know that!

Don't you think it would be wise to read the thread I linked to earlier before dismissing my well-founded criticism out of the gate?

It's not like I just started thinking and writing on fiscal and monetary matters yesterday, you know.
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2011, 11:32:09 AM »
It's the principle of the matter, Geo!

We all complain about a lame, ignorant, do nothing Congress (except as they're told by the elite), and then we get a man of action in the Senate and we poo poo him also? We can't have it both ways.

I am commenting mainly on his taking some action, not so much on the content of this document. We all have to take time to read this and much more. You can't discuss something without having read it.

This is about starting a discussion on the other side of the spectrum, and not only your viewpoint. That is real debate and something much needed in Congress. It should never be just about ONE VIEWPOINT. That is where we have gone wrong in the past.

Sure, people should read your viewpoint on the subject, but also this one! This is what a good Congress, or good forum does. It does not just push ONE VIEWPOINT and say all others are wrong. I like to look at both sides of issues!

It doesn't mean we have to agree, but we must have the opportunity to see THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, and then make up our own mind.

---------------------
The Congress has to start somewhere to get spending under control. There are going to have to be many more steps taken and changes to the whole system, but how can you do anything else until you start curbing spending. This is a starting point only, and better than doing nothing! The Congress has frigged up things so badly that it will take many years to fix their gross errors and stupidity. They are starting at least, so the jury is still out as to what steps they will take to fix the mess.





Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2011, 11:41:23 AM »
It's the principle of the matter, Geo!

No, it's the specifics of the matter:

----------------------

"What came after that [Obama's State of the Union address], of course, was Congressman Ryan of Wisconsin.... And Ryran -- what is his method? Notice: Republicans never want to talk about specifics, because specifics is how they're going to flay you alive. They want to pontificate and parade their principles. They want to rant about their superior principles of limited government and individual responsibility and all these other empty slogans. 'Rugged individualism' -- that was the watch-word of Hoobert Hoover, and with that he essentially precided over the destruction of the U.S. economy. Therefore Ryan's task was to pay tribute to these Republican reactionary platitudes, but without telling you how he's actually going to flay you alive."

-- Webster Tarpley, World Crisis Radio broadcast, 1/29/11, 2nd hour

----------------------

Quote
We all complain about a lame, ignorant, do nothing Congress (except as they're told by the elite), and then we get a man of action in the Senate and we poo poo him also?

Oh please, are you serious? For chrissake, George Bush was a man of "action." Does that alone justify cheerleading anything he did?

Quote
I am commenting mainly on his taking some action,

And I'm commenting on falsely equating any action with "right" action.

Quote
You can't discuss something without having read it.

You certainly have no problem dismissing the following thread without having read it:

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=199144.0

Are you afraid to practice what you preach?
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2011, 11:44:32 AM »
(Note: I apparently have to repost here what I've already posted elsewhere.)

It's bad enough we already have Democrats attempting to advance the international bankers' austerity agenda under the public relations cover of saving the Earth from "climate change."

Now we have Republicans attempting to advance the very same agenda under the public relations cover of "balancing the budget."

Whether this particular propaganda campaign succeeds in convincing most Americans to -- as Webster Tarpley puts it -- "cut their own throats" economically clearly depends on how ignorant most Americans are of the following:

----------------------------------

http://www.wealthmoney.org/articles/has-the-balanced-budget-been-misunderstood/

Has The Balanced Budget Been Misunderstood?

This graph shows the U.S. budget surpluses and deficits from 1954 to 1989. The recessions are numbered and plotted on the graph.

Has The Balanced Budget Been Understood?



We are told we must balance the budget. Look at the record and find out what happens when we do. Shortly after each balanced budget we had a recession. Check the record. Notice the many years between numbers two and four. No surpluses and no recessions until the surplus in 1969. By December, 1969 number three started. No one has dared to balance the budget since.

The large deficit in 71 and 72 got the economy going again. The deficit was reduced in 73 but before the budget could be balanced, number four started November 1, 1973. The pattern was repeated with numbers five and six.

We had number four when the deficit was reduced to about $5 billion, number five at about $40 billion, and number six at about $70 billion. Recessions five and six were so close, because the deficit in 81 was too small to keep the recovery going. Just look at the huge deficits required to end number six.

Since 1985, many items have been taken 'Off Budget' to hide the true size of the deficit.

Note the large reduction from 86 to 87. Could this be the reason for the October 1987 market crash? Economists predicted a depression within six months. Why were they wrong? The 88 and 89 debt increase figures tell us the answer.

The government borrowed enough to stimulate the economy out of the predicted depression.

Since 1792, our monetary system has been switched from a wealth based monetary system to a monetized debt-based monetary system. Under constitutional principles, our money was to be a representation of wealth and spent or traded into circulation.

Now our monetary system is based on debt. Every form of money now in circulation was put into circulation as a loan or as a debt to someone. When interest is charged on the loans it means that the debt is always greater than the money supply. In order for the economy to function there must be an ever expanding debt. Is this fiscal responsibility?

If the debt is not continually growing there is a money shortage. That is the reason that each time there is a reduction in the deficit a recession follows. A money shortage is what causes recessions. The media doesn’t tell you this. Why not?

[Continued...]

----------------------------------

Now, does that mean we should impose no limits at all on runaway deficit spending? Of course not. It simply means we should not err so far in the opposite direction that it causes more problems than it solves.

The only way to truly solve this debt-caused fiscal crisis is to implement the monetary reform measures called for here.

In the mean time, however, if the short-term goal is to reduce deficit spending to a more manageable level, then instead of cutting the social safety net at the very time it's needed most -- as corporate-whore Republicans would have us do under the euphemistic guise of "fiscal responsibility" -- we should simply force Congress to (a) stop the wars, and (b) stop "bailing out" derivatives-infected mega-banks.

Those two measures alone would practically eliminate the deficit.

But so-called "conservatives" would rather focus on cutting such things as unemployment benefits and food stamp outlays instead!  ::)
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2011, 11:45:28 AM »
http://www.prisonplanet.com/engineered-economic-collapse-approaching-budget-cuts-will-only-accelerate-the-inevitable.html

Engineered Economic Collapse Approaching; Budget Cuts Will Only Accelerate the Inevitable

Eric Blair
Prisonplanet.com
Feb 14, 2011

Ron Paul constantly reminds us that money is created out of thin air, which is to say it’s an illusion. Therefore, the debt must be an illusion too, correct? Yet, fiscal conservatives still use the debt as a tool of fear to make budget cuts that they selectively deem expendable.

Sure, they may think these cuts make them look “responsible,” but ultimately it is still collectivism — just more on their terms. Make no mistake; budget cuts in our corrupt system are just another form of wealth redistribution. After all, that money is being eliminated to pay off the debt, right? Thus, that money is removed from programs that employ people to pay off the issuers of credit (banks).

Additionally, the costs of the national debt, bank bailouts, war costs, and unfunded liabilities are fundamentally impossible to pay off. So, the notion that cutting a “historical” $100 billion [.pdf] will have any positive affect on the long-term economy is absolute fiction. And although many conservative lawmakers feel like it’s the right thing to do, they know it will have no measurable affect on the debt. It’s a scam, and if the history of modern lawmaking is any indicator, the establishment will surely stick it to the poor and middle classes with these cuts while the oligarchs continue to flourish.

Don’t get me wrong; I am in full agreement with the philosophy of less government across the board. The fact that taxpayer funded subsidies, earmarks, foreign aid, and most domestic spending warps the free market is undeniable. In turn, this collectivized system has become so entrenched that determining genuine price discovery of anything is nearly impossible. This lack of price discovery deters private investment into the economy, which leaves the state as the primary economic driver.

When an economy is fundamentally bankrupt and no longer has a competitive productive capacity, government spending is the only thing propping up the economy. However doomed the system may be, government spending does indeed represent jobs. For example, even the flabby-assed NSA peon who is monitoring Internet activists all day still eats lunch, gets his lawn mowed, paints his house, raises a family, etc. In other words, his needless job creates other jobs and supports other economic activity in the matrix. So, if you cut his position, which I fully support doing, you bring economic hardship on him and the countless people his income contributes to. This is simply a fact, and if the lost job isn’t replaced in the private sector the economy will further contract.

Therefore, sadly, the debate about what to cut and what not to cut doesn’t really matter. The controlled demolition of the economy will persist. Since the U.S. is undoubtedly facing economic decline, and perhaps even a dramatic collapse, the private sector is unlikely to pick up the slack created by any public spending cuts. And if there is one steadfast indicator, or instigator, of all recessions and depressions, it’s that the available money supply in the economy shrinks.

Yes, despite the cranked-up printing presses at the Fed, the real money supply in America is shrinking to levels not seen since the Great Depression, leading some conservatives to call it “frightening.” And it will continue to shrink even more with these proposed budget cuts.

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 11:46:28 AM »
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23452

Massive Austerity Budgets are Destroying America
While the Rich Get Richer, Everyone Else Suffers

by Kevin Zeese



Global Research
March 1, 2011

The race to the bottom has picked up its pace.  As state and federal governments face budget deficits, they are cutting critical programs with austerity budgets that will weaken education, health care, essential services and the economy.

Wisconsin is ground zero for the race to the bottom.  I will be heading to Wisconsin the end of the week to get a better understanding of the situation and to gauge the anger – has government finally hit the breaking point so people will stand up against the class war being perpetrated against them?  I have no doubt that if the people were organized and demanded change, we could see the end of the corporate political duopoly that allows big business interests to dominate government and puts profits ahead of people’s needs. Maybe Wisconsin is the sign that the tipping point is here?  I certainly hope so because the richest country on earth does not need to be in a race to the bottom.  We are in this race down because of choices the government is making for their wealthy campaign contributors.

Take Wisconsin, not too long ago the state was seemingly well run with a budget surplus.  The economic collapse, as it did for many states, created a budget deficit as expenditures rose and revenues declined; and now that the meager Obama stimulus is running out, the deficit is here.  But, in Wisconsin the current deficit and future economic challenges are being made worse by choices made by the government. The Legislative Fiscal Bureau of Wisconsin, the state's official fiscal budget examiner, explained [.pdf] on January 31, 2011 how the state went from surplus to deficit: 

    “More than half of the lower estimate ($117.2 million) is due to the impact of Special Session Senate Bill 2 (health savings accounts), Assembly Bill 3 (tax deductions/credits for relocated businesses), and Assembly Bill 7 (tax exclusion for new employees).”

Essentially, in a special session the governor signed into law two business tax breaks and a tax break for health savings accounts, a conservative approach to health care which primarily benefits the wealthy.  This cost the state $117 million and none of these costs were offset by other sources of income.  This contributed to a budget already stressed by a bad economy and built significantly reduced revenues into future budgets.

So, the race to the bottom escalated.

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 11:47:01 AM »
http://www.prisonplanet.com/stealing-from-social-security-to-pay-for-wars-and-bailouts.html

Stealing from Social Security to Pay for Wars and Bailouts

Paul Craig Roberts
Prisonplanet.com
March 10, 2011

The American Empire is failing. A number of its puppet rulers are being overthrown by popular protests, and the almighty dollar will not even buy one Swiss franc, one Canadian dollar, or one Australian dollar. Despite the sovereign debt problem that threatens EU members Greece, Ireland, Spain, and Portugal, it requires $1.38 dollars to buy one euro, a new currency that was issued at parity with the US dollar.

The US dollar’s value is likely to fall further in terms of other currencies, because nothing is being done about the US budget and trade deficits. Obama’s budget, if passed, doesn’t reduce the deficit over the next ten years by enough to cover the projected deficit in the FY 2012 budget.

Indeed, the deficits are likely to be substantially larger than forecast. The military/security complex, about which President Eisenhower warned Americans a half century ago, is more powerful than ever and shows no inclination to halt the wars for US hegemony.

The cost of these wars is enormous. The US media, being good servants for the government, only reports the out-of-pocket or current cost of the wars, which is only about one-third of the real cost. The current cost leaves out the cost of life-long care for the wounded and maimed, the cost of life-long military pensions of those who fought in the wars, the replacement costs of the destroyed equipment, the opportunity cost of the resources wasted in war, and other costs. The true cost of America’s illegal Iraq invasion, which was based entirely on lies, fabrications and deceptions, is at least $3,000 billion according to economist Joseph Stiglitz and budget expert Linda Bilmes.

The same for the Afghan war, which is ongoing. If the Afghan war lasts as long as the Pentagon says it needs to, the cost will be a multiple of the cost of the Iraq war.

There is not enough non-military discretionary spending in the budget to cover the cost of the wars even if every dollar is cut. As long as the $1,200 billion ($1.2 trillion) annual budget for the military/security complex is off limits, nothing can be done about the U.S. budget deficit except to renege on obligations to the elderly, confiscate private assets, or print enough money to inflate away all debts.

The other great contribution to the US deficit is the offshoring of production for US markets. This practice has enriched corporate management, large shareholders, and Wall Street, but it has eroded the tax base, and thereby tax collections, of local, state, and federal government, halted the growth of real income for everyone but the rich, and disrupted the lives of those Americans whose jobs were sent abroad. When short-term and long-term discouraged workers are added to the U.3 measure of unemployment, the U.S. has an unemployment rate of 22%. A country with more than one-fourth of its work force unemployed has a shrunken tax base and feeble consumer purchasing power.

To put it bluntly, the $3 trillion cost of the Iraq war, as computed by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes, is 20% of the size of the U.S. economy in 2010. In other words, the Iraq war alone cost Americans one-fifth of the year’s gross domestic product. Instead of investing the resources, which would have produced income and jobs growth and solvency for state and local governments, the US government wasted the equivalent of 20% of the production of the economy in 2010 in blowing up infrastructure and people in foreign lands. The US government spent a huge sum of money committing war crimes, while millions of Americans were thrown out of their jobs and foreclosed out of their homes.

The bought-and-paid-for Congress had no qualms about unlimited funding for war, but used the resulting “debt crisis” to refuse help to American citizens who were out of work and out of their homes.

The obvious conclusion is that “our” government does not represent us.

The US government remains a champion of offshoring, which it calls “globalism.” According to the US government and its shills among “free market” economists, destroying American manufacturing and the tax bases of cities, states, and the federal government by moving US jobs and GDP offshore is “good for the economy.” It is “free trade.”

It is the same sort of “good” that the US government brings to Iraq and Afghanistan by invading those countries and destroying lives, homes and infrastructures. Destruction is good. That’s the way our government and its shills see things. In America destruction is done with jobs offshoring, financial deregulation, and fraudulent financial instruments. In Iraq and Afghanistan (and now Pakistan) is it done with bombs and drones.

Where is all this leading?

It is leading to the destruction of Social Security and Medicare.

Republicans have convinced a large percentage of voters that America is in trouble, not because it wastes 20% of the annual budget on wars of aggression and Homeland Security porn-scanners, but because of the poor and retirees.

[Continued...]
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2011, 11:50:19 AM »
It would be nice to have a debate on the issue, and not just one viewpoint forced on people.

I don't tell people how to believe on a subject, that is up to them. I just present information, they will hopefully read and determine for themselves what they will believe.

If you don't care for Rand Paul or Ron Paul, that is your choice. I don't agree with everything ANYBODY says, including them and Alex. I make up my own mind, and I think others should do the same.

Thx for posting your opposing viewpoint link. That's also important for people to read. Then they can make up their own mind!
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline Geolibertarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2011, 11:53:49 AM »
It would be nice to have a debate on the issue, and not just one viewpoint forced on people.

Did I say you should never have posted the link to Rand's budget proposal? No, I simply chose not to mindlessly cheerlead it merely because he's Ron Paul's son. Sorry if that makes me a thought criminal.

Quote
Thx for posting your opposing viewpoint link. That's also important for people to read. Then they can make their own determination.

We're agreed on that point. It's all about letting people examine both sides, so they can decide for themselves with whom they most agree.  8)
"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://schalkenbach.org
http://www.monetary.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2011, 12:02:55 PM »

  It's not over yet but it's 11:59.  It would be over if all the other countries weren't in the same boat.  Crooked bankers, accountants and lawyers all over the world are trying their best to fix the leaks but there are plenty of icebergs ahead.


  The USA has $200 trillion in unfunded liabilities and the damn bankers and stock brokers around the world have 1500 trilion in bad derivates.

  MIDNIGHT IS APPROACHING!!!!!!
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2011, 12:21:41 PM »

  One more thing--- a balanced budget means absolutely nothing.  The debt (a reported $14 trillion and the unfunded liabilitiies of over $200 trillion) ARE THE REAL KILLERS.


     WE ARE ONE MOVE FROM CHECKMATE!!!!!
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2011, 01:06:25 PM »
His first statement in his budget plan on pg 3 is:

Quote
"Preface - This budget is not meant to be just a vision for the future, but a starting point to begin the discussion about the proper role of government.  It identifies those bureaucracies that are without question outside the scope of the Constitutional role of the federal government."


So, as you can see by his statement, that this is about much more than just attempting a "balanced budget"! It's about putting a fire under the Senate and separating the men from the boyz!

He is challenging the Senators to a real discussion, and to become Real Leaders, because we are losing our country! They can no longer sit there and be their idiot and bought selves, but are going to have to man up, or get the hell out of the Senate!


Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2011, 01:28:35 PM »


  They are not going to get the hell out of the Senate until the people vote them out or they die. The people of America are generally ignorant---just like the Senators want them to be.

  I love the Pauls but they are only 2 sherriffs fighting an army of crooks--both inside and outside the Senate.  David had it easier against Goliath.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Valerius

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2011, 01:38:35 PM »
Auction off all the assets of every CEO,  Congressman, or President that participated in TARP and/or bailouts then apply that to the national debt.  If it is a foreign institution, freeze local assets.

How's that for small start?
 
"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck."  -Frederick Douglass

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2011, 01:39:38 PM »

  Speaking of crooks, there is one less crook in the world---Geraldine Ferraro just died (75 yrs. old).
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2011, 01:43:58 PM »
Auction off all the assets of every CEO,  Congressman, or President that participated in TARP and/or bailouts then apply that to the national debt.  If it is a foreign institution, freeze local assets.

How's that for small start?
 

  That's a good start valerius but we must add the bankers and Wall Street people for the really big money.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2011, 01:56:38 PM »
It's the principle of the matter, Geo!

We all complain about a lame, ignorant, do nothing Congress (except as they're told by the elite), and then we get a man of action in the Senate and we poo poo him also? We can't have it both ways.

I am commenting mainly on his taking some action, not so much on the content of this document. We all have to take time to read this and much more. You can't discuss something without having read it.

This is about starting a discussion on the other side of the spectrum, and not only your viewpoint. That is real debate and something much needed in Congress. It should never be just about ONE VIEWPOINT. That is where we have gone wrong in the past.

Sure, people should read your viewpoint on the subject, but also this one! This is what a good Congress, or good forum does. It does not just push ONE VIEWPOINT and say all others are wrong. I like to look at both sides of issues!

It doesn't mean we have to agree, but we must have the opportunity to see THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY, and then make up our own mind.

---------------------
The Congress has to start somewhere to get spending under control. There are going to have to be many more steps taken and changes to the whole system, but how can you do anything else until you start curbing spending. This is a starting point only, and better than doing nothing! The Congress has frigged up things so badly that it will take many years to fix their gross errors and stupidity. They are starting at least, so the jury is still out as to what steps they will take to fix the mess.


Let them start with the banks--NOT austerity for the people. These "cut social services" austerity plans are, by design, another way the banks strip wealth from the people.

Hudson on The View from Europe
March 21, 2011
By Michael Hudson

Another excellent interview with Bonnie Faulkner.
http://michael-hudson.com/audio/Hudson_KPFA_Europe2011.mp3

Topics covered: Financial and fiscal austerity policies; the appeal of economic austerity to bankers; economic depression and war; post-WWII vs. post-cold war economic policy; government to government grants vs. commercial lending; the euro and dollar; privatization in New Zealand and elsewhere; social unrest; speculation and prices; criminalization of the economy; impoverishment of the US.



Offline agentbluescreen

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2011, 02:13:27 PM »

  Even Rand Paul or Ron Paul couldn't balance the budget in 5 years or 100 years.  There are to many people on the dole and tens of millions that don't even pay taxes.  AMERICA, ECONOMICALLY, IS GONE!!!

The issue is one of a final departure from the corruptions of the past or continued hopeless enslavement and servitude to an immoral process that is unfixable. Like it or not it is those with the wealth and influence who have engineered his entire mess, and it is thy alone who should ber the consequences.

Trickle down "economics" is a two way street - the sole responsibility lies above. You can't blame the poor and the middle class for acceding to the endless demands and whims of the rich. 99% of all debt is for wars that benefitted and profited them alone.

Offline chris jones

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2011, 02:50:07 PM »
 Wow, you folks said it all. America has been raped inside out..
 So many citizens act as if nothing is wrong, is it the beleif that if they ignore the truth, the problem evaporates? I meet all kinds of folks from other nations, when the debt is mentioned in awe, they simply reply, WARS cost money, thats their humble take on it.
  There hasn't been the true value of the dollar since JFK went toe to toe with the FED. These parasitic globalists are determined to eradicate this nation, fiscally, moraly, and constitutionaly.
  When the day comes the truth can not be avoided by the silent majoirty, all hell will break loose.
Could it be at that point Mil Law is declared, and when the smoke clears about the only way people can survive is pledging loyalty to the NWO, they will come to our rescue as if they are a seperate entity saving us. Am I off the map?

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2011, 03:02:49 PM »
The issue is one of a final departure from the corruptions of the past or continued hopeless enslavement and servitude to an immoral process that is unfixable. Like it or not it is those with the wealth and influence who have engineered his entire mess, and it is thy alone who should ber the consequences.

Trickle down "economics" is a two way street - the sole responsibility lies above. You can't blame the poor and the middle class for acceding to the endless demands and whims of the rich. 99% of all debt is for wars that benefitted and profited them alone.
  Without question---most of the debt is for wars that benefitted and profitted them alone.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2011, 03:41:12 PM »
The Plan: (See pgs 52-54 for a Brief Policy Explanation aka Summary of proposals)
http://campaignforliberty.com/materials/RandBudget.pdf

I just scanned through the entire document. He has some good suggestions for eliminating certain wasteful and unnecessary departments in the Federal Government. Many of his proposals are common sense suggestions, IMO.





Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2011, 03:51:02 PM »
Let them start with the banks--NOT austerity for the people. These "cut social services" austerity plans are, by design, another way the banks strip wealth from the people.

His plan, on first glance scanning the entire document, appears to be across the board cuts, ranging across ALL GOVT DEPTS and ALL 3 BRANCHES OF GOVT. I don't see this plan as AUSTERITY, but see it as common sense way to cut wasteful spending and get rid of a bloated government. He proposes cutting out entire departments like Commerce, Energy, Education, etc and moving the important parts of those agencies to others that are applicable. I think his reasons make sense. I'm sure there may be some I would question, but overall it looks like a good way to cut spending, and a good start to bringing SANITY BACK TO WASHINGTON!

The bottomline is: We must cut wasteful spending and get rid of agencies who engage in fraud, and abuse. (One Example of many: HUD - there are many who suspect they have engaged in money laundering and drug activity, and they are also partly responsible for the HOME MORTGAGE IMPLOSION. Catherine Austin Fitts can tell you all about the fraud, she use to work for HUD).


I agree that we need to make the BIG BANKERS and WALL STREET accountable. ABSOLUTELY! That is another important steps that must happen in the remaking of Washington. Also stop the revolving door from WALL STREET into GOVERNMENT agencies such as THE TREASURY. There is indeed a lot to do to correct the current situation, and some need to be starting to be prosecuted for their part in the scams.







Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2011, 04:04:59 PM »
Now if you want to see who is involved in promoting AUSTERITY programs, then look at Obama's budget. He is the one promoting that.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/barack-obamas-budget-for-2012-a-complete-and-total-joke
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/feb2009/osum-f24.shtml

Obama Budget 2012:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets/tables.pdf
http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Deception/index.php?showtopic=8949

And not only that. He will take away from the poor, as well as run up our deficit even higher, while raising your taxes! That is INSANE!

 ::)




Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2011, 04:13:50 PM »
Now if you want to see who is involved in promoting AUSTERITY programs, then look at Obama's budget. He is the one promoting that.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/barack-obamas-budget-for-2012-a-complete-and-total-joke
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/feb2009/osum-f24.shtml


And not only that. He will take away from the poor, as well as run up our deficit even higher, while raising your taxes! That is INSANE!

 ::)






  But that is what the NWO wants so they can get their Greatest Depression in place.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2011, 04:15:16 PM »
 But that is what the NWO wants so they can get their Greatest Depression in place.


That's right, and Obama is helping them, along with some Republicans, both minions of the elite!
Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline larsonstdoc

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2011, 04:29:06 PM »




  And Soetoro's Deathcare will completely "barry" us if it is not stopped.
I'M A DEPLORABLE KNUCKLEHEAD THAT SUPPORTS PRESIDENT TRUMP.  MAY GOD BLESS HIM AND KEEP HIM SAFE.

Offline Rebelitarian

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2011, 04:31:32 PM »
No financial reform is possible without the elimination of the FED.

Protean

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2011, 06:14:07 PM »
His plan, on first glance scanning the entire document, appears to be across the board cuts, ranging across ALL GOVT DEPTS and ALL 3 BRANCHES OF GOVT. I don't see this plan as AUSTERITY, but see it as common sense way to cut wasteful spending and get rid of a bloated government. He proposes cutting out entire departments like Commerce, Energy, Education, etc and moving the important parts of those agencies to others that are applicable. I think his reasons make sense. I'm sure there may be some I would question, but overall it looks like a good way to cut spending, and a good start to bringing SANITY BACK TO WASHINGTON!

The bottomline is: We must cut wasteful spending and get rid of agencies who engage in fraud, and abuse. (One Example of many: HUD - there are many who suspect they have engaged in money laundering and drug activity, and they are also partly responsible for the HOME MORTGAGE IMPLOSION. Catherine Austin Fitts can tell you all about the fraud, she use to work for HUD).


I agree that we need to make the BIG BANKERS and WALL STREET accountable. ABSOLUTELY! That is another important steps that must happen in the remaking of Washington. Also stop the revolving door from WALL STREET into GOVERNMENT agencies such as THE TREASURY. There is indeed a lot to do to correct the current situation, and some need to be starting to be prosecuted for their part in the scams.


The bankers lead the way in the fraud and abuse  dept. not social services. Again--cutting (or moving and cutting) social services is not the answer, making Wall Street accountable is. GET WALL STREET OUT OF GOVERNMENT.

I recommend you listen to the MP3 link---
Hudson on The View from Europe
March 21, 2011
By Michael Hudson

Hudson interview with Bonnie Faulkner on Guns and Butter.
http://michael-hudson.com/audio/Hudson_KPFA_Europe2011.mp3

Topics covered: Financial and fiscal austerity policies; the appeal of economic austerity to bankers; economic depression and war; post-WWII vs. post-cold war economic policy; government to government grants vs. commercial lending; the euro and dollar; privatization in New Zealand and elsewhere; social unrest; speculation and prices; criminalization of the economy; impoverishment of the US.

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2011, 10:26:57 PM »
Protean,

How do you propose we get the Bankers & Wall street out of government? Our DOJ won't even prosecute any of the looters involved in the 2008 collapse or the mortgage scam.

I have listened to the Guns and Butter mp3 above, have you read Paul's Budget. Would like your feedback after you have read it.





Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

Offline chris jones

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2011, 10:42:35 PM »
The bankers lead the way in the fraud and abuse  dept. not social services. Again--cutting (or moving and cutting) social services is not the answer, making Wall Street accountable is. GET WALL STREET OUT OF GOVERNMENT.
Protein.. I agree with you,. the point I have to make is this is not a avaialble, if you beleive it is pleae let me know he realistic steps to be taken.. The elites have been arrainging this seanrio fo many decades, to sssume we can depend on our reps is out of the question, a few of them are with us, but too few. The voice of the poeple, well facing the truth does it exist, realy , do we have a voice.
  I would be delighted to have a method revealed that would inforce our contsitutution, the elites have covered every anlge  overide nand ingore it. The UN madates becoming the written word.
  A rebelion, riots, countelss demos, weve been there , done that, they are prepared for it. Some assume am out of bound saying that WW 3 is in its beggining, the  the takedow of the USA HAS BEEN IN EFFECT FOR DECADES. Wiht all due respect, how does a warold conflict begin, if it hasn't i would apprecaite a response as to why it not. My take, insiduiously were are definetly  in ww3, it has not begun.

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2011, 11:13:52 PM »


A Modest Proposal ... EAT THE RICH!

It is NOT the scraps falling off the table
that should concern us ... not the crumbs
and hulls and morsels and slop that we
should worry about. It's not the Social
Security checks to old-timers (did you
know they TAX SS checks?) ... not a few
bucks for "free" school lunches or food
"stamps" to put food on the table of the
down & out that we should consider.
NO ... it's the magnificent, the splendid,
opulent, lavish, awesome wealth ... the
incalculable abundant fortunes ... it is the
lavish, decadent, wicked, despicable rich
that we should scorn. TAX THEM?
What another 3%? NO!
Confiscate the massive wealth that they
have stolen from the people ... turn "their"
properties into museums and schools and
housing and government buildings. Seriously,
these blueblood families and their lapdog
minions have lorded it over us LONG ENOUGH,
by God. Eat the rich!

Hopper explains the world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWZZSD4irM


St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline Freeski

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2011, 11:20:33 PM »

A Modest Proposal ... EAT THE RICH!

It is NOT the scraps falling off the table
that should concern us ... not the crumbs
and hulls and morsels and slop that we
should worry about. It's not the Social
Security checks to old-timers (did you
know they TAX SS checks?) ... not a few
bucks for "free" school lunches or food
"stamps" to put food on the table of the
down & out that we should consider.
NO ... it's the magnificent, the splendid,
opulent, lavish, awesome wealth ... the
incalculable abundant fortunes ... it is the
lavish, decadent, wicked, despicable rich
that we should scorn. TAX THEM?
What another 3%? NO!
Confiscate the massive wealth that they
have stolen from the people ... turn "their"
properties into museums and schools and
housing and government buildings. Seriously,
these blueblood families and their lapdog
minions have lorded it over us LONG ENOUGH,
by God. Eat the rich!

Hopper explains the world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlWZZSD4irM




Haven't seen the clip but LOL at the rant!

Eat me! ;D
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 11:35:25 PM »
Haven't seen the clip but LOL at the rant!

Eat me! ;D

It is the OBSCENE wealth that I am talking about ...
the criminal elite sucking the lifeblood of our nation's IMMENSE treasures ...
using and abusing good, HARD-working people, enslaving us to add even
MORE to their stockpiles of vulgar excesses.
They are filthy and disgusting ... I think I am gonna throw up.

What could you buy with a billion dollars?

http://open.salon.com/blog/awop/2011/02/15/what_could_you_buy_with_a_billion_dollars

St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline Freeski

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2011, 12:20:01 AM »
It is the OBSCENE wealth that I am talking about ...
the criminal elite sucking the lifeblood of our nation's IMMENSE treasures ...
using and abusing good, HARD-working people, enslaving us to add even
MORE to their stockpiles of vulgar excesses.
They are filthy and disgusting ... I think I am gonna throw up.

What could you buy with a billion dollars?

http://open.salon.com/blog/awop/2011/02/15/what_could_you_buy_with_a_billion_dollars


I couldn't agree more Jackson! There's a layer of scum that needs to be gotten rid of.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Jackson Holly

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2011, 10:16:34 AM »


The "income disparity" in this wicked country is the worst (or near the top) of all countries in the world! And this INCLUDES the most DOWNTRODDEN, poverty stricken third world BLOODY DICTATORSHIPS! The GD blood-sucking TICKS are dragging the DOG around! We have ALWAYS been the CASH COW for the BLUEBLOODS (banksters, kings & queens) ... we MUST get this through our thick skulls!

You bet, there are ways to cut "government" social spending that we have to look at ... after we disband and de-fund about 75% of the OFFENSE BUDGET! We the American Taxpayers are being robbed of about 60% of our "tax" money to POLICE THE WHOLE D*MN WORLD ... and this is after the VAMPIRE ELITE have already sucked off the cream of the crop!

Worrying about cutting social programs, education, pensions, etc., is like crushing the little p*ss ants who are fighting over a few crumbs, and leaving a gaggle of vultures to devour the main course.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A quote from my link above:
http://open.salon.com/blog/awop/2011/02/15/what_could_you_buy_with_a_billion_dollars
How Extreme Is The Concentration?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now you have a way to visualize just how much money is concentrated at the very top. And the concentration is increasing. The top 1% took in 23.5% of all of the country’s income in 2007. In 1979 they only took in 8.9%.

It is concentrating at the expense of the rest of us. Between 1979 and 2008, the top 5% of American families saw their real incomes increase 73%, according to Census data. Over the same period, the lowest-income fifth (20% of us) saw a decrease in real income of 4.1%. The rest were just stagnant or saw very little increase. This is why people are borrowing more and more, falling further and further behind (From the Working Group on Extreme Inequality).

Income VS Wealth


There are a few people who make hundreds of millions of income in a single year. Some people make more than $1 billion in a year But that is in a single year. If you make vast sums every year, after a while it starts to add up (And then there is the story of inherited wealth, passed down and growing for generation after generation).

Top 1% owns more than 90% of us combined. “In 2007, the latest year for which figures are available from the Federal Reserve Board, the richest 1% of U.S. households owned 33.8% of the nation’s private wealth. That’s more than the combined wealth of the bottom 90 percent” (Also from the Working Group on Extreme Inequality).

400 people have as much wealth as half of our population. The combined net worth of the Forbes 400 wealthiest Americans in 2007: $1.5 trillion. The combined net worth of the poorest 50% of American households: $1.6 trillion.



Corporate wealth is also personal wealth. When you hear about corporations doing well, think about this chart:



The top 1% also own 50.9% of all stocks, bonds, and mutual fund assets. The top 10% own 90.3%.

Worse Than Egypt

In fact our country’s concentration of wealth is worse than Egypt. Richard Eskow writes,

    Imagine: A government run by and for the rich and powerful. Leaders who lecture others about “sacrifice” and deficits while cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy. A system so corrupt that rich executives can break the law without fear of being punished. Increasing poverty and hardship even as the stock market rises. And now, a nation caught between a broken political system and a populist movement that could be hijacked by religious extremists at any moment.

    Here’s the reality: Income inequality is actually greater in the United States than it is in Egypt. Politicians here have close financial ties to big corporations, both personally and through their campaigns. Corporate lawbreakers often do go unpunished. Poverty and unemployment statistics for US minorities are surprisingly similar to Egypt’s.


St. Augustine: “The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it.
Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Offline jofortruth

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Re: ** Senator Rand Paul's Balanced Budget Plan - 5 year plan
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2011, 10:39:32 AM »
Jackson Holly,

Do you believe in Wealth Redistribution? That's what those evil Banker boyz are accomplishing, with no oversight whatsoever.

I agree, the real troublemakers are the BIG BANKS and WALL STREET. The way they're acting and being allowed to act, it's as if they are a government unto themselves. They have no oversight, they do as they please, and we sit here and watch as they loot us. Who is doing something to stop them?

We know what the problem is. What is the solution, in your opinion?

IMO, what Rand Paul is proposing is getting the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT out of control, and the States back in more control. We need to get rid of the MANDATES sent down from the Federal Government. Getting rid of the useless and taxpayer funded agencies would be a step in the right direction. Like I said, Rands budget is practical and a way to get rid of wasteful spending. He is not attacking Social Security, but wanting to strengthen it for future generations.









Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!