End of the year tax info wanted.

[Nixxonsprodigy]

I am trying to find out more about paying taxes at the end of the year. I read a comment buy a listener and they said that you volunteer to pay taxes and it is not required. So I am trying to find out if someone can point me in the right direction. My parents struggled all through last year to survive and ended up paying close to three grand back. Another question is, I have heard cases where people get prison time, or taken to court for not paying taxes(tax evasion I think it is), not sure if those cases are true or not. But any info would really help me out, or maybe a nudge in the right direction to find the information.

[Nixxonsprodigy]

Can some one help me out here? I found info and read through it along with some videos, So there is no law that requires you to pay fedral income taxes. My mother was doing hers a few minutes ago and will end up owing $900. So she said she would finish it tomarrow. I have ben debating with her about that you do not need to pay taxes as it is not a law. But she keeps saying "what about nicolus cage, and willy nelson" "I know people that have not payed taxes and was either audited etc. or did time for it" I do not think she knows the full story on the people she knows. But can someone help me convince her not to pay taxes this year. How does it work?
 She keeps saying she already filed, and when you file you have to do it every year. I gues my question is, will they come after her? And if so how do you counter these theives from saying they will audit you etc. if you do not pay?

[Nixxonsprodigy]

sorry I forgot to spell check....

[MonkeyPuppet]

There are a number of things that will never be addressed by internet videos and websites (like sedm and famguardian).  Following the advice on websites and in those videos will make your life very difficult.

Yes, the federal income tax is based on "voluntary compliance", but this does not mean it is "voluntary".  For those upon whom Congress has imposed a tax, the IRS lets you do the work of self-assessment... that is the "voluntary" part.

For those upon whom Congress has not imposed a tax, the IRS has engaged in a fear and terrorism campaign every year for the past 60 years to ensure your payer gives them evidence that you are something you are not... as in, someone upon whom Congress has imposed the tax.

As for the immediate issue of whether or not to file, I highly recommend it.  The reason being, those who have a Form W-4 on file at their payer's office have had an information return (Form W-2) sent to the IRS, providing them with prima facie evidence that you are one of those upon whom Congress has imposed a tax.  The same goes for those who filled out a W-9 (or otherwise received a 1099 of any flavor).  Since tax collection is primarily an automated process, the Form 1040 saves the IRS the work of going through your books and records.

PLEASE stop playing with fire until you fully understand the dragon with which you are attempting to play.  Get the book linked in my signature for starters.  It is both a great introduction for those not familiar and a roadmap for those needing direction on where else to go for more detailed information.  It is also a great resource for familiarizing yourself with the information necessary to defend yourself in the face of opposition from any direction.  What is it NOT is a "how-to" guide on tax avoidance or evasion.  There is no such thing from a legal standpoint.

Good luck on your journey.

[MonkeyPuppet]

The writer of Income Tax: Shattering the Myths, Dave Champion, is also the host of The Dave Champion Show.  I highly recommend his show for any and all lovers of liberty... especially gun owners .

Dave is also a consultant for nontaxpayers.  He was also a consultant for Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism.  Although the movie is quite revealing, it still falls short of giving the whole story and providing practical solutions to those upon whom Congress has not imposed a tax.  There was much more information that Dave wanted to have included, but Aaron believed it would be overwhelming in the movie's format.

Dave's long-awaited book, Income Tax: Shattering the Myths, gives the rest of the story and a whole lot more.  It's worth every penny... and quantity discounts are available starting at as little as two books.

[One Revelator]

Nixxonsprodigy,

The only people I've heard of that don't file are people that have never filed even once in their entire lifetime.  Even Alex views this subject as "picking your battles" .  The red-shield people have been entrenched in this country for close to 100 years and have become incredibly powerful - powerful enough to have anyone in the various branches of our government killed if they don't go along with or try to expose the agenda.  (see the 30 min YouTube animation "The American Dream" for a quick history of red-shield types)

I remember Alex interviewing Ed and Elaine Brown over the phone during their standoff with the dragon.  They took it on at first through a failed justice system, then though a very high profile, publicized, physical standoff and lost big-time.  They were both sentenced to long-term jail sentences, separate from each other, starting well into their 60's.  Wiki has a good overview of their story.

MonkeyPuppet is right.  "Playing with fire" is putting it mildly.

[MonkeyPuppet]

Bottom line is, if your payer (or your mother's payer, as the case may be) have submitted information returns as if they were withholding agents subject to this requirement, you (and your mother, as the case may be) should file.

Your next immediate step, if you choose to start following the law as it is written (as opposed to dictated by ignorance), is to get the book Income Tax: Shattering the Myths.  The book explains the history, the law and the true target of what is now and will inevitably be your unleashed rage and frustration at what Dave Champion calls "the largest financial crime in the history of the world".

Upon finishing the book (and hopefully reading it again and again), you will then know where to begin in correcting the erroneous notion that you are of those made liable.  Please please please don't do anything else without taking this first step.

... take it from someone who's been down that road.

[dre4dwolf]

Sue the IRS before you stop paying taxes, if you win then stop paying taxes.
;p.... its the only way to "get out of" paying taxes "free and clear".... IT WILL TAKE A COURT ORDER STATING YOU ARE NOT TO PAY TAXES.

You know, there is a lot of evidence that paying taxes is voluntary, cases have been filed against the IRS, but the courts refuse to rule against the IRS because they are in bed together.

Its common knowledge that our tax money is abused/not used for our benefit... (if any is, its a very small portion of the amount payed).

If anyone has a class action lawsuit going against the IRS for the purpose making the tax ACTUALLY VOLUNTARY, I got no real full time Job atm, and I would love to take part ;p....


The reason Taxes are ILLEGAL is because in order to pay taxes you have to self-incriminate yourself, IE: One of your rights is VIOLATED by them forcing you to submit personal information.

Its really a shame they don't institute a fair and lawful TAX..... INCOME TAXES ARE ILLEGAL, IMMORAL AND JUST WRONG A MAN / WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP WHAT THEY WORKED FOR.... ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A CON ARTISTS TRYING TO LIVE OFF YOUR BACK.

[MonkeyPuppet]

Sue the IRS before you stop paying taxes, if you win then stop paying taxes.
;p.... its the only way to "get out of" paying taxes "free and clear".... IT WILL TAKE A COURT ORDER STATING YOU ARE NOT TO PAY TAXES.

You know, there is a lot of evidence that paying taxes is voluntary, cases have been filed against the IRS, but the courts refuse to rule against the IRS because they are in bed together.

Its common knowledge that our tax money is abused/not used for our benefit... (if any is, its a very small portion of the amount payed).

If anyone has a class action lawsuit going against the IRS for the purpose making the tax ACTUALLY VOLUNTARY, I got no real full time Job atm, and I would love to take part ;p....


The reason Taxes are ILLEGAL is because in order to pay taxes you have to self-incriminate yourself, IE: One of your rights is VIOLATED by them forcing you to submit personal information.

Its really a shame they don't institute a fair and lawful TAX..... INCOME TAXES ARE ILLEGAL, IMMORAL AND JUST WRONG A MAN / WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP WHAT THEY WORKED FOR.... ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS A CON ARTISTS TRYING TO LIVE OFF YOUR BACK.

While I agree that the way the income tax is erroneously enforced by fraud, coercion and obfuscation upon the average private-sector American is illegal and immoral, calling the income tax itself "illegal" is an incorrect characterization.  I understand and empathize with your anger, but your assertions about how to fight against the misapplication of the income tax are as dangerous as they are foolish.

The income tax is not illegal nor immoral.  Those that understand the history of the income tax and who have a grasp of statutory construction should easily see the truth as it is written in plain English.  For the layman, the IRS in collusion with the DOJ, Congress (in general) and the federal courts have created quite the maze to navigate to find the truth.  What makes this even worse is decades of a lie being repeated to the point of general acceptance.

After all, if you were to ask you private-sector payer where the law is that requires you to sign a Form W-4 in order to work for them, they have no idea where to find such a law.  The same goes for those working on a contract basis being paid $600 or more in a single year being "required" to fill out a Form W-9.  The FACT is that there is no such law... in either case.

The problem is ignorance.  If you feel that is an insult, that's on you, not me.  The fact is that most people, workers, payers, accountants and tax attorneys alike, are ignorant of the law.  It really is that simple.

The fact is that the income tax applies to foreign persons, their withholding agents, and to U.S. citizens residing abroad with foreign-sourced income.  Knowing this does people little good.  What is necessary is for those responsible for bookkeeping, accounting and human resources at all manner of private-sector businesses to know this and be shown the law that explains it in painful detail.

Following the advice of any of today's tax truth gurus will only get you in trouble.  Fanciful legal theories that do not explain what I just did are only going to get you in trouble.

Be angry, but do yourself a favor and cure your ignorance before it develops into stupidity through wrongful action.

[Wicked Jester]

And get ready to owe more money to the IRS in 2014 if you don't get mandatory health insurance

[dre4dwolf]

It was in jest that I recommended to the OP to sue the IRS.... but now that im on the topic....
I bet if I did enough research on the topic I could find evidence the IRS is down right CRIMINAL , never mind ILLEGAL.
Partial Fraud is still Fraud.
The way they do income taxes is completely unethical, I myself do not intend on "evading" taxes, its a simple determination to see that in being forced to file taxes you have to divulge personal information against your will (under duress) this is extortion and fraud, and violates the 5th Amendment.

Will you win in court against the IRS? probably not, they will never rule against the IRS unless its a case of MASSES OF PEOPLE against the them...

There is nothing wrong with an "honest tax" if such a thing could exist... but the way the IRS does things ...is very dishonest.... you willingly divulge personal information and then they have the nerve to sue you.... thats like taking someone off the street into your home and telling them they can take 30% of what they see in your house, the guy says "hmm" you have a nice fridge and a nice house ... eeehh I wan't CASH how much you got? you empty out your bank account dump it on the floor he says its not enough and says you should have more because of your house and car, storms outside your house and takes you to court to seize your property and put you in Jail, thats not a great way of collecting HANDOUTS... Criminal Begging Bastards.

There should just be a flat national tax, one amount that every working citizen pays every 3 to 6 months.... something everyone can afford.... its very stupid to pile on this huge expense every year for what?.....
The money wasted on:
Forms
Paper
Labor
Computers/software updates
time / effort / mail costs /transportation costs of forms etc
amounts to so much.... if they just did away with the entire system and instituted a flat tax for working citizens they would decrease waste and COLLECT MORE revenue, you would have less people dodging taxes and less waste and the tax would be so simple that everyone would just pay to get it over with, then we could spend the saved funds on actually AUDITING and seeing WHERE THE MONEY GOES AND WHAT IT IS SPENT ON.

We as a people see almost NO BENEFIT from the current system.

90% of the people I know working are working OFF THE BOOKS, everyone KNOWS THEY WILL NEVER COLLECT ON THINGS LIKE SS, so everyone just dodges taxes and works off the books....
The system is due for a complete overhaul... people have a right to be angry...

[dre4dwolf]

And get ready to owe more money to the IRS in 2014 if you don't get mandatory health insurance

"Mandatory" ahahaha I been looking for an "affordable" plan for 3 months for my sister with asthma, it always ends up BEING CHEAPER to go and PHYSICALLY PAY FOR EACH DOCTOR VISIT AND THE REQUIRED MEDICINE THAN TO HAVE THEIR INSURANCE.
All the Insurance SUCKS, we have had them all . . . you pay for months on end, you go to the doctors to find out they don't take your insurance anymore, or that your insurance has been suspended for one reason or another . . .  its just a stupid system.

The more screwed-up thing is doctors are get payed nothing, my dentist collected back in the day something like 25$ a visit from the insurance companies......... a walk in would pay over 100$ / 200$
Then the bill comes at the end for god knows what.

The system is Idiotic and borderline insane.

Honestly I don't think the IRS, Banks, Social Security, will be around in 2014.... so we don't need to worry.

[MonkeyPuppet]

There should just be a flat national tax, one amount that every working citizen pays every 3 to 6 months.... something everyone can afford.... its very stupid to pile on this huge expense every year for what?.....
The money wasted on:
Forms
Paper
Labor
Computers/software updates
time / effort / mail costs /transportation costs of forms etc
amounts to so much.... if they just did away with the entire system and instituted a flat tax for working citizens they would decrease waste and COLLECT MORE revenue, you would have less people dodging taxes and less waste and the tax would be so simple that everyone would just pay to get it over with, then we could spend the saved funds on actually AUDITING and seeing WHERE THE MONEY GOES AND WHAT IT IS SPENT ON.

We as a people see almost NO BENEFIT from the current system.

90% of the people I know working are working OFF THE BOOKS, everyone KNOWS THEY WILL NEVER COLLECT ON THINGS LIKE SS, so everyone just dodges taxes and works off the books....
The system is due for a complete overhaul... people have a right to be angry...

Honestly, I have to wonder if anyone even reads my replies sometimes.  Suggesting a "national flat tax" or any other kind of national tax as a replacement for the income tax is ASININE.  The income tax doesn't even apply to the VAST majority of Americans in the first place... why would you replace it with another tax??!?

Convincing the entire country through threat, duress and coercion that they owe a tax that they do not is bad enough, but going so far as to have them welcome an alternative to it is just brilliant!

Are you a foreign person?  Are you a withholding agent for a foreign person?  Are you a U.S. citizen residing abroad with foreign-sourced income?  If you answered NO to these questions, then you don't owe the tax!!

[dre4dwolf]

Honestly, I have to wonder if anyone even reads my replies sometimes.  Suggesting a "national flat tax" or any other kind of national tax as a replacement for the income tax is ASININE.  The income tax doesn't even apply to the VAST majority of Americans in the first place... why would you replace it with another tax??!?

Convincing the entire country through threat, duress and coercion that they owe a tax that they do not is bad enough, but going so far as to have them welcome an alternative to it is just brilliant!

Are you a foreign person?  Are you a withholding agent for a foreign person?  Are you a U.S. citizen residing abroad with foreign-sourced income?  If you answered NO to these questions, then you don't owe the tax!!

I completely agree, but we all know they will forever hound us with some kind of tax, to me a flat tax with some strings attached/ laws to protect against unreasonable collection.... is the best solution...

The system is about to fall apart anyway, I guess we will just have to wait and see what we end up with.... I hope we go back to a silver/gold standard....

[MonkeyPuppet]

I completely agree, but we all know they will forever hound us with some kind of tax, to me a flat tax with some strings attached/ laws to protect against unreasonable collection.... is the best solution...

The system is about to fall apart anyway, I guess we will just have to wait and see what we end up with.... I hope we go back to a silver/gold standard....

Wait and see?  No no no.  People need to do what they can in their capacity to force things in the right direction.

It's honestly quite sad to say as it sounds like a shameless plug (though I personally do not benefit at all from it), but if half of America would just read the damn book in my signature, we would be in a better place overnight.  Not only from a tax standpoint, either, since it is the misapplication of the tax code that fuels the interest payments on the capital Congress borrows from the Fed.  You have to read that statement correctly, btw.  It is the MISapplication of the tax laws, not the laws themselves, that need to change, and the only way to do that is the cure the ignorance of those upon whom it is misapplied.  It is their ignorance that allows it to continue.

After curing that ignorance, we hang the culprits... figuratively or literally, I really don't care, but we must wake people up first since there are quite a number of IRS agents who are just as ignorant as the rest of the public.

With Congress restricted to its Constitutional funding, the federal government would shrink to its Constitutional size in very short order.

[dre4dwolf]

Wait and see?  No no no.  People need to do what they can in their capacity to force things in the right direction.

It's honestly quite sad to say as it sounds like a shameless plug (though I personally do not benefit at all from it), but if half of America would just read the damn book in my signature, we would be in a better place overnight.  Not only from a tax standpoint, either, since it is the misapplication of the tax code that fuels the interest payments on the capital Congress borrows from the Fed.  You have to read that statement correctly, btw.  It is the MISapplication of the tax laws, not the laws themselves, that need to change, and the only way to do that is the cure the ignorance of those upon whom it is misapplied.  It is their ignorance that allows it to continue.

After curing that ignorance, we hang the culprits... figuratively or literally, I really don't care, but we must wake people up first since there are quite a number of IRS agents who are just as ignorant as the rest of the public.

With Congress restricted to its Constitutional funding, the federal government would shrink to its Constitutional size in very short order.

I agree, but that doesn't change the fact it wont happen, not for another 10 years atleast, what can one do? you know the truth, you have proof of the truth, yet the truth is ignored and when you try to spread/share the truth the officials act like assholes and ignore you stating "thats just how it is accept it".... what can one do when the people with the guns are the ones acting like assholes?

I don't intend to go around supporting a violent revolution over taxes alone, there are much bigger problems in this country, it would be a needless loss of life.... not to mention it probably will just be used as cause to increase taxes and strengthen the already massive police state.

There is no effective Tax Law anymore, its Taxation at Gun Point Under Duress, lets not kid ourselves.