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Author Topic: Live Chat with moronic globalist and history revisionist Richard Dawkins  (Read 13919 times)
egypt
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« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2010, 12:11:43 PM »

I am truly confused with the point of this thread.

If a person has sex with a goat, what else are they capable of?  Give me a break.

Love, e
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mystic
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« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2010, 12:13:08 PM »

I am truly confused with the point of this thread.

If a person has sex with a goat, what else are they capable of?  Give me a break.

Love, e

This is quite illogical. Are you saying that if they have sex with a goat - something that really shouldn't be illegal - that makes him capable of murder, theft, etc.? How? What logic are you basing this on?

Are you going to put them in prison because of a murder or theft they *may* commit? Man, that's scary!

Are you saying that someone doing heroine - or marijuana - should also be put in jail too purely because of "what else they are capable of?" This, again, is totally nonsensical.

Unfortunately, you not *thinking* this out. It's an emotional reaction. These are victim-less "crimes" - and they aren't even crimes at that! They should be perfectly legal to do in a free society.
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Scootle
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« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2010, 12:20:34 PM »

ROFL @ the title change. I just linked to this thread on facebook with the comment

"LOL @ this thread ... it started off as a genuine pilosophy discussion, until someone used the ostracization of goat shaggers as an example of religious tyranny..."
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
egypt
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« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2010, 12:22:43 PM »

You do not have the ability to determine what my "reactions" are from.  Indeed, why are you saying I am reacting?  On that note, are emotional reactions "bad" with no value?

Instead of mentalizing issues to death, get real.  Look in the mirror.  To not believe there is a creator of the universe is fine.  Why are you trying to impose your beliefs on others with "proof" in the basic ideas of good/bad, sex with beasts thrown into the mix (are you trying to elicit emotional reactions?).  Also, how do you know that a person having sex with an animal is not hurting & traumatizing that animal?  Where is the good & bad & anything goes, there?

This thread and what is presented, is ridiculous, imho.  I find no more time for it, sorry.  

Love, e
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mystic
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« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2010, 12:24:38 PM »

ROFL @ the title change. I just linked to this thread on facebook with the comment

"LOL @ this thread ... it started off as a genuine pilosophy discussion, until someone used the ostracization of goat shaggers as an example of religious tyranny..."

Well, I never took it into this direction, others did. For all we know they did this on purpose to derail the real purpose of the thread.

Nonetheless, I've also responded to the legitimate posts too, which are there.

Can you please change the topic back so we can actually the discuss the real issues please?
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lamourlady
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« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2010, 12:33:48 PM »

Of course, the moment you pass on the STI to a unconsenting partner... then that DOES violate their rights. This is entirely different and I would say is immoral and should be illegal. THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE.

True, it should be and is.  But, again, this is the problem: human nature.  How do you know if every person who acquired an std from sex with a goat will notify every sexual partner that he had the std?  Law or not law, moral or immoral?

Ultimately, as I said above, there isn't ANY system that will work.  Human nature will always trump it and be defined and twisted/ignored by any who disagree.  There will always be diversity of thought, beliefs, mind and heart.  There will always be dissent and anarchy of some form.  I don't care how logical or perfect you believe a system is.  And who, pray tell, will determine this system?  Hasn't history proven enough?  You will never know what goes on behind closed doors.  And whatever form of monetary/wage/trade system there is, those with the most will always come out on top.

It doesn't matter whether one believes in God, Buddha or one particular man, it will ultimately be controlled by a few and forced against someone's will and desires and most likely, most of the people's desires.





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Scootle
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« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2010, 12:36:40 PM »

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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
birther truther tenther
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Against all forms of tyranny


« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2010, 12:37:01 PM »

Well, I never took it into this direction, others did. For all we know they did this on purpose to derail the real purpose of the thread.

Nonetheless, I've also responded to the legitimate posts too, which are there.

Can you please change the topic back so we can actually the discuss the real issues please?

I hate it when the thread titles get changed.
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WarChest
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« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2010, 12:47:10 PM »

Wow, you have really picked my reply apart.

My God is not a green creature from Venus. If green creatures from Venus were real, God created them and is the Architect of our reality.

Self sacrifice and giving to my fellow man is between God and myself. The act’s looses its luster when applauded by the world.

If you don’t believe that man is inherently evil then I suggest that you read Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

If I fail in this existence, what dose it concern you. If I want to give to my fellow man, how dose it hurt you. None here has asked you for anything. Don’t assume that myself or anyone like would.

Make your peace with it and move on. Your act here is done.     

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If we meet again well then we’ll smile and if not, well then this parting was well made.
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mystic
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« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2010, 12:57:30 PM »

True, it should be and is.  But, again, this is the problem: human nature.  How do you know if every person who acquired an std from sex with a goat will notify every sexual partner that he had the std?  Law or not law, moral or immoral?

Well, this problem has nothing to do with a goat, as you can equally get an STI from a human too. In fact, isn't something like 50% of the population having an STI at this point? I'm not sure of the exact %, but it's crazy high. The fact that you got it from a goat or not is irrelevant.

The real issue is honesty, integrity, and valuing human rights. And if you violate someone's rights, whether by passing an STI without consent, stealing from them, or murdering them, you should be punished by law and real justice must occur. None of this changes lamourlady.

We can't just pass laws that preemptively stop people from living their life. The government used this excuse so many times in the past, and every time it makes things worse. For example, they want to take our guns away because they claim that less crime will happen, and all of this other non-sense. In reality, crime is lowest when the people are armed. And then you realize they only pass these laws to make it harder to resist the government in the long run!

The same thing can be said about government censorship and other ridiculous laws. The truth is, accidents happen. Sometimes a kid looks out of a bus window and then gets crushed against a pole or a tree as the bus turns around. Does that mean we should regulate the bus companies to have no windows? Should we make it illegal for anyone to stick their head out of a window in a moving vehicle? Of course not, but this government would totally do these kinds of things.

If your rights are violated, you can and should use the full extent of the law to prosecute and put the idiot with the STI behind bars. End of story. And civilly, you should get as much money/assets from him as possible to make amends. This is true justice, and if we had that, I don't think many people would lie about their STIs.

Ultimately, as I said above, there isn't ANY system that will work.  Human nature will always trump it and be defined and twisted/ignored by any who disagree.

No system is perfect true, but that doesn't mean no system will work. The goal is to find a system that values justice and values individual rights the closest it can. Just because we cannot have a perfect society does not mean we shouldn't try and install a government and a society that does its best to value individual rights. The current system is just awful, and we already know communism, fascism and other forms of government simply do not work either. We do know capitalism was the best we ever had, so we should start there.

There will always be diversity of thought, beliefs, mind and heart.

Yes, and the freer you make your nation, the more room that nation will have for such diversity. The more your restrict, the more problems you have. People are individuals - you can't force them to live all the same. You can't just put people into groups and have them all live the same like borg. It doesn't work. This is why the NWO is a HORRIBLE idea, because it tries to centralize laws, power, etc. so that everyone lives the same, which just isn't suited to natural human existence.

There will always be dissent and anarchy of some form.  I don't care how logical or perfect you believe a system is.  And who, pray tell, will determine this system?

Dissent is good. There is nothing wrong with people that disagree and have a logical case for it.

You do seem to reinforce this notion that I or Ayn Rand wanted a "perfect" society... but I've already stated that this cannot happen. Like I said, we should desire a society that lets people go about their life freely and protects individual rights.

You do seem to think that this is a foreign and outlandish idea... but the founding fathers wanted the exact same thing! They already tried to do it, and partially succeeded for a large part of our history - for over a hundred years! All Ayn Rand was suggesting is that we go BACK to what we used to have. It's really not that outlandish and risky.

Hasn't history proven enough?  You will never know what goes on behind closed doors.  And whatever form of monetary/wage/trade system there is, those with the most will always come out on top.

History has shown that free-market capitalism offers humanity the most freedom and prosperity out of every other form of government that we have tried. So yes, history is on Ayn Rand's side.

If you make gold and silver the standard, it would be very hard to corrupt it. The reason many governments toppled is because they tried to invent ways to get around it - paper fiat-based currency, or chipping away the silver/gold edges of the coins to inflate it like the Romans did.

I want to ask you though: is it bad that some people do better than others? Not everyone is equal. Some people produce more than others... and some people invent thinks and develop products and services that are more valuable than others. It is entirely just that these people should get more wealth.

The thing that makes capitalism a free and just system is that this upward mobility is available to anyone. It's what they used to call "The American Dream". There is lots of room for upward mobility in free-market capitalism based on your level of intelligence, you work-ethic, your level of productivity, the value you provide to others, etc. Right now, the chance of moving upwards in the USA is so much harder than it should be as a result of fascist-style government.

Also note, JP Morgan only had like 34% of the total market share before 1913. Sure, he had a lot of power, and I'm not saying he wasn't corrupt... but note that this is so much better than the 100% power they have now, along with the rest of the banking cartel.
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mystic
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« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2010, 01:18:19 PM »

Wow, you have really picked my reply apart.

My God is not a green creature from Venus. If green creatures from Venus were real, God created them and is the Architect of our reality.

Clearly the anology was lost on you. Frankly, I equate green creatures on Venus on the level of god - both are things that simply do not exist and there is no evidence at all to support their existence.

Self sacrifice and giving to my fellow man is between God and myself. The act’s looses its luster when applauded by the world.

You surely have the choice to sacrifice yourself, your property, etc. as you see fit - this is your right (although I do not think this is in one's rational self-interest to do this, but that doesn't really matter in this case).

The problem happens when "our president" says we need to sacrifice, and demands it from us by force. This is a huge problem. You see, all of these collectivist ideas - religion, communism, fascism - they are all intertwined and are all very similar.

If you don’t believe that man is inherently evil then I suggest that you read Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

Pointing to an example of fiction does not prove the point. Even if the story were based on a real-world event, pointing out a group of individuals who happened to choose evil does not prove that all individuals are evil.

Therefore you point is not made here.

Equally, they could have chosen their value their own rational interest and valued the rights of the others. They could have traded amongst each other and worked together for their own survival. This would have all been to their mutual benefit, and they probably would all have survived.

There is no reason to think that this couldn't be a valid alternative.

If I fail in this existence, what dose it concern you. If I want to give to my fellow man, how dose it hurt you. None here has asked you for anything. Don’t assume that myself or anyone like would.

It doesn't concern me. Of course it is 100% your choice and your right to think this way. I never said that it wasn't, so I don't know why you thought this.

I am only pointing out that collectivist philosophies are destructive and always fail because they are diametrically opposed to man's true, provable nature - egoism. There is no way a collectivist philosophy will work. This is proven, and completely validated if you look at history. Trying to attain something - a state of 100% self-sacrifice and putting every man and women before yourself - is just not attainable. It's designed to fail.
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Kilgore Trout
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« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2010, 01:27:41 PM »

Just to throw my bit in and bookmark , I agree with the OP.
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three persons present who believed in the truth of what was set down.
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« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2010, 01:39:34 PM »

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Mystic, you're on the wrong forum.  Many of these christians lack the critical thinking skills needed to comprehend your argument.  For the record I agree with you.


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Freeski
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« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2010, 01:40:03 PM »

This is a most important point:

Quote
The problem happens when "our president" says we need to sacrifice, and demands it from us by force. This is a huge problem.
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"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dig
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« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2010, 01:45:48 PM »

Hey Richard Dawkins...you were awesome in Expelled.

Is there a sequel planned?
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
Red7Paladin
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« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2010, 01:51:40 PM »

This statement doesn't mean anything. Frankly, we already know that a world with Christianity is a world with tyranny. George Bush often used his religion to rally the people to his false cause. They just blindly followed him.

Napoleon knew god didn't exist, but he used it anyway because the people liked it, and thought it was a way to get the people behind him.

Hitler was actually a Christian. Not only is this stated in Mein Kampf, there are tons of other facts available that prove this (his relationship with the pope, his dealings with the church, religious laws, etc.), especially surrounding the holocaust. It is a common fallacy that people believe Hilter was an atheist.

But none of this matters. Using logic, you can discover freedom without even knowing about Christianity or god at all. And even without Christianity, there were dictators and tyrannies that resulted anyway. If someone wants to become a dictator, they will find a way. Christianity, like many other religions, was just used to push it forward. So you're statement, respectfully, is wrong.

And of course, living in tyranny, like the founding fathers did, motivated them to think about these things philosophically too. Just as people are doing now and have done in the past. I only hope that today, we realize that our morals and rights do not come from god, but that they are natural to our species' survival. This is paramount to species' survival and prosperity.

You don't understand history very well if you don't believe Christianity has been important in humanity's struggle against tyranny.  And just because someone says they are Christian doesn't mean they are.  A true Christian strives to be Christ-like.  I don't think Hitler did so.  

Anyway, I hope you never have to live in a world where people have abandoned belief in God.  You will find yourself living in a nightmare, I assure you.
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Dig
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« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2010, 02:01:16 PM »

http://www.conservapedia.com/Richard_Dawkins

Clinton Richard Dawkins, FRS, FRSL, born March 26, 1941 (age 69), is a biologist, evolutionist, atheist, and leftist/liberal. Most of Richard Dawkins' popular books have been on the topic of evolutionary biology. Dawkins is also the former holder of the Charles Simonyi Chair of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University. He is an ardent opponent of religion, which he dismisses as mere superstition.[1] However, Dawkins has offered no effective rebuttal to studies which show that the irreligious are more likely to be superstitious than evangelical Christians.[2] Moreover, in terms of the theism vs. atheism issue, Dawkins has shown himself to be rather ignorant in matters of theology and philosophy. For example, atheist philosopher Dr. Michael Ruse declared concerning Dawkins' book The God Delusion: "The God Delusion makes me embarrassed to be an atheist."[3] Furthermore, Richard Dawkins has established a reputation for avoiding debates with his strongest opponents.

Richard Dawkins is known for his vehement and sometimes vitriolic promotion of atheism and the evolutionary paradigm. Dawkins has repeatedly likened religious faith to a mental defect despite the fact that atheists are more likely to commit suicide than believers in the existence of God and the plentitude of studies associating theism with better mental and physical health. Mr. Dawkins currently resides in the UK. He was an assistant professor of Zoology at the University of California, Berkeley for two years before becoming a zoology researcher at Oxford.[4]

Biography of Richard Dawkins
 
When Richard Dawkins was a young man, he recognized the complexity of life and believed that it indicated a designer.

Richard Dawkins was raised to have religious values, and confesses that when he was young, he acknowledged the complexity of life and believed that it indicated a designer. However, during his teens, he chose to abandon this faith and embrace Darwinism instead, despite admitting that he hadn’t actually read Charles Darwin’s works.[5][6]

Dawkins studied zoology at Oxford University, and graduated in 1962. He remained at Oxford for his doctoral work, receiving his Ph.D in 1966. From 1967-1969, Dawkins served as Assistant Professor of Zoology at Berkeley. During this time, he was, in his own words, “heavily involved” in the unrest and liberal activism for which Berkeley is notorious.[7] He returned to Oxford in 1970 and served as a Lecturer in Animal Behaviour and a Fellow of New College. In 1995, Dawkins became the Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science which was a post created by an endowment of £1.5m from Dr. Charles Simonyi. In September 2008, Richard Dawkins retired from his post as Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science.

Despite this, Richard Dawkins might have remained a relatively obscure professor if not for the publication of his first book, The Selfish Gene, in 1976. This book became a bestseller, and brought Dawkins a celebrity which he has worked to maintain with further books and lectures.

In 1984, Dawkins divorced his wife of 17 years, Marian Stamp; later that same year, he married Eve Barham. Dawkins also divorced Barham, though the precise circumstances of this divorce are unclear.[8] He married science fiction actress Lalla Ward in 1992; at present, the two are still married.
Creationist Video Interview of Richard Dawkins Being Stumped
 
The video From a Frog to a Prince, produced by Creation Ministries International, features Richard Dawkins being stumped by the question of a creationist.[9] The interviewer asked Dawkins for an example of genetic information arising from a mutation.[10] Recently, a creationist produced an excellent YouTube video demonstrating the Richard Dawkins still has not answered the question posed to him by the interviewer and he uses Richard Dawkins own words to demonstrate this fact.[11]

See also: Richard Dawkins and Creation Ministries International and Richard Dawkins' public refusal to debate creationists and Instances of Richard Dawkins ducking debates

In 2008, a video clip featuring Richard Dawkins became widely available to the public,[12] showing Dawkins being stumped by a question from the creationist interviewer. A shortened version has been translated into 10 languages. The clip was part of an interview included in the video and DVD From a Frog to Prince, produced by Creation Ministries International about the genetic information required by evolution, and the interviewer is asking Dawkins for an example of genetic information arising from a mutation.

In later interviews, Dawkins claims that he was not stumped, but instead shocked when he realized that the interviewer was a creationist, and the video was edited in a way to make him look like he was unable to answer the question.[13] However, the question came after he had that realization, and after the creationists negotiated with Dawkins and he agreed to continue.[14] However, despite being given a free reign in a sceptic publication to respond, he still didn't provide any examples. Recently, a creationist produced an excellent YouTube video demonstrating the Richard Dawkins still has not answered the question posed to him by the interviewer and he uses Richard Dawkins own words to demonstrate this fact.[15] The video can be found at YouTube and is entitled Is Richard Dawkins Really Stumped? The Truth - In His Own Words - YES...he is!

Dr. Don Batten of Creation Ministries International postulates that Richard Dawkins may not truly be an atheist, but perhaps Richard Dawkins is merely a God hater.[16] The video in which Richard Dawkins clearly squirms when asked for an example of genetic information arising from a mutation and dodges the question with an unrelated monologue, certainly gives some credence to Dr. Batten's postulate. Richard Dawkins inept response relating to the existence of God during his interview with Ben Stein further bolsters the view that Richard Dawkins is more motivated by hatred towards God than any inward assurance Dawkins has concerning the validity of his atheistic contentions.VIDEO There is certainly historical precedence for evolutionists/atheists having inward doubts about the validity of evolution and atheism. The evolutionist Charles Darwin wrote in a private notebook that he was a materialist (a type of atheist).[17] Late in Charles Darwin's life, Darwin told the Duke of Argyll that he frequently had overwhelming thoughts that the natural world was the result of design.[18]

Richard Dawkins has been inconsistent concerning his supposed refusal to debate creationists and his refusal is merely a ruse to avoid losing debates to creation scientists. Generally speaking, creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates.
 
Evolutionist and atheist Richard Dawkins said in an interview: “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question."[19]
Dawkins' comment concerning Adolf Hitler

For details see: Richard Dawkins' commentary on Adolf Hitler and Essay: Richard Dawkins' comment concerning Adolf Hitler

When asked in an interview, "If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?", Dawkins replied, "What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question, but whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath."[19]

The interviewer wrote in response, "I was stupefied. He had readily conceded that his own philosophical position did not offer a rational basis for moral judgments. His intellectual honesty was refreshing, if somewhat disturbing on this point."[19]

Richard Dawkins, pseudoscience, and other errors

For more information please see: Richard Dawkins and pseudoscience

Within the evolutionary science community and the creation science community, Richard Dawkins has faced charges of engaging in pseudoscience and also has faced charges of committing elementary errors.[20][21][22][23]

The website True Free Thinker notes: “Moreover, note that with regards to “assertions without adequate evidence” evolutionary biologist and geneticist, Prof. Richard Lewontin, referenced Carl Sagan’s list of the “best contemporary science-popularizers” which includes Richard Dawkins. These authors have, as Lewontin puts it, “put unsubstantiated assertions or counterfactual claims at the very center of the stories they have retailed in the market.” Lewontin specifically mentions “Dawkins’s vulgarizations of Darwinism” (find details here and here).

Even renowned evolutionary biologists H. Allen Orr, David Sloan Wilson, and Massimo Pigliucci have called into question the power that Dawkins once had as an intellectual, since he has made elementary errors in The God Delusion.[24]”

A Baylor University study found that the irreligious are more likely to be superstitious than evangelical Christians.[25]

In 2010, a new discovery relating to the eye further discredited the evolutionary quackery of Richard Dawkins.[26] In addition, in 2010, the journal Nature featured an interview with the evolutionist, biologist, and atheist David Sloan Wilson who criticized Richard Dawkins for denying the evidence for the societal benefits of religion (see also: Atheism and Mental and Physical Health).[27][28]

As far as the the social science of history, Richard Dawkins has engaged in historical revisionism when it comes to the mass murders committed by atheists.

Many of Richard Dawkins detractors are conservative Christians which is not surprising. As alluded to earlier, the Wall Street Journal reported: "A comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that traditional Christian religion greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of astrology. It also shows that the irreligious and the members of more liberal Protestant denominations, far from being resistant to superstition, tend to be much more likely to believe in the paranormal and in pseudoscience than evangelical Christians."[29] In the United States, CBS News reported in October of 2005 that the Americans most likely to believe only in the theory of evolution are liberals.[30]

Richard Dawkins' battle with online fans

In February of 2010, the news organization The Telegraph reported Richard Dawkins was "embroiled in a bitter online battle over plans to rid his popular internet forum for atheists of foul language, insults and 'frivolous gossip'."[31] Given that Wired Magazine and Vox Day declared for various reasons that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially challenged men, it is not surprising the online dispute was bitter. In addition, Richard Dawkins has a reputation for being abrasive.
Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

In the film Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, a documentary concerning suppression of the intelligent design movement, Ben Stein interviewed Richard Dawkins.

Ben Stein Interview with the evolutionist Richard Dawkins

See also: Ben Stein Interview with Richard Dawkins

In the movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, Ben Stein demonstrated the folly of evolutionism in his interview with Richard Dawkins (A clip of the interview has been uploaded to YouTube ).

The Discovery Institute provides an transcript of part of the interview along with some commentary: “BEN STEIN: "What do you think is the possibility that Intelligent Design might turn out to be the answer to some issues in genetics or in evolution?"

DAWKINS: "Well, it could come about in the following way. It could be that at some earlier time, somewhere in the universe, a civilization evolved, probably by some kind of Darwinian means, probably to a very high level of technology, and designed a form of life that they seeded onto perhaps this planet. Now, um, now that is a possibility, and an intriguing possibility. And I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the details of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer."

Ho,ho! That is precisely what the Raelians say: Years ago, everybody knew that the earth was flat. Everybody knew that the sun revolved around the earth. Today, everybody knows that life on earth is either the result of random evolution or the work of a supernatural God. Or is it? In "Message from the Designers", Rael presents us with a third option: that all life on earth was created by advanced scientists from another world.  Richard Dawkins and Rael; "clear thinking" kindred spirits! [32]”

 
Ben Stein

A Christian apologetics website provides some additional commentary on the Ben Stein/Richard Dawkins interview which focuses on Dawkins response to Ben Stein's questions about the likelihood of the existence of God: “    In this interview there is the following exchange between Ben Stein and Richard Dawkins. Mr. Stein prefaces the exchange with this comment: “Professor Dawkins seemed so convinced that God doesn’t exist that I wondered if he would be willing to put a number on it.” Here is Professor Dawkins response, “Well, it’s hard to put a figure on it, but I’d put it at something like ninety-nine percent against or something like that.” Mr. Stein responded with this question. “Well, how do you know it’s ninety-nine percent (“I don’t,” Dr. Dawkins interjects.) and not, say, ninety-seven percent?” Dr. Dawkins continues, “You asked me to put a figure on it and I’m not comfortable putting a figure on it. I think it’s… I just think it’s very unlikely.” “But you couldn’t put a number on it?,” Mr. Stein clarifies. “No, of course not,” said Dr. Dawkins. “So it could be forty-nine percent?,” Mr. Stein asks. Dr. Dawkins replies, “Well, it would be… I mean I think it’s… it’s… it’s unlikely, but… but… I… and it’s quite far from fifty percent.” (He's very difficult to quote.) “How do you know?,” Mr. Stein asks. “I don’t know, I mean, I put an argument in the book,” Dr. Dawkins responds.[33]    ”

Stein expressed surprise in the narration that Richard Dawkins "believe[d] in intelligent design."[34]

Instead of attempting to defend abiogenesis, Dawkins actually suggested directed panspermia—the very thing that Francis Crick once suggested to explain life's beginnings.

On March 20, 2008, Dawkins and colleague P. Z. Myers tried to gain entry to a special preview of the Ben Stein documentary, though no member of the production team had invited them. Dr. Myers was not allowed in, but Dawkins was. Accounts vary as to why this was so; the production team asserts that they decided to grant Dawkins entry on-the-spot because “    he has handled himself fairly honorably, he is a guest in our country and I had to presume he had flown a long way to see the film.[35]    ”

On the other hand, Myers himself states that he guesses that Richard Dawkins was not recognized.[36]

Richard Dawkins arranged to have a filmed conversation between Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers concerning this incident posted to YouTube[37] In it Myers claimed that the production team had full knowledge of his attendance through the online RSVP system and Dawkins claimed that it was an "incredible piece of inept public relations" to "expel" PZ Myers from a film about people being expelled for their views. Both PZ Myers and Richard Dawkins were featured in the film.

Richard Dawkins, atheist attrocities, and historical revisionism

For more information please see: Richard Dawkins, atheist atrocities, and historical revisionism

Dinesh D'Souza took Richard Dawkins to task for engaging in historical revisionism when it comes to the atrocities of atheist regimes and declared Dawkins "reveals a complete ignorance of history".VIDEO
 
Joseph Stalin's atheistic regime killed tens of millions of people.

In a recent interview D'Souza declared: “Richard Dawkins argues that at least the atheist regimes didn't kill people in the name of atheism. Isn't it time for this biologist to get out of the lab and read a little history? Marxism and Communism were atheist ideologies. Stalin and Mao weren't dictators who happened to be atheist; atheism was part of their official doctrine.  It was no accident, as the Marxists liked to say, that they shut down the churches and persecuted the clergy...[38]”

Dinesh D'Souza stated in another interview: “As one writer put it, “Leaders such as Stalin and Mao persecuted religious groups, not in a bid to expand atheism, but as a way of focusing people’s hatred on those groups to consolidate their own power.” Of course I agree that murderous regimes, whether Christian or atheist, are generally seeking to strengthen their position. But if Christian regimes are held responsible for their crimes committed in the name of Christianity, then atheist regimes should be held accountable for their crimes committed in the name of atheism. And who can deny that Stalin and Mao, not to mention Pol Pot and a host of others, all committed atrocities in the name of a Communist ideology that was explicitly atheistic? Who can dispute that they did their bloody deeds by claiming to be establishing a “new man” and a religion-free utopia? These were mass murders performed with atheism as a central part of their ideological inspiration, they were not mass murders done by people who simply happened to be atheist.[39]”


Vladimir Lenin

Karl Marx said "[Religion] is the opium of the people". Marx also stated: "Communism begins from the outset (Owen) with atheism; but atheism is at first far from being communism; indeed, that atheism is still mostly an abstraction."[40]

Vladimir Lenin wrote: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."[41]

Dr. R. J. Rummel, professor emeritus of political science at the University of Hawaii, is the scholar who first coined the term democide (death by government). Dr. R. J. Rummel's mid estimate concerning the loss of life due to communism is that communism caused the death of approximately 110,286,000 people between 1917 and 1987.[42] The atheism in communist regimes has been and continues to be militant atheism that has committed various acts of repression including the razing of thousands of religious buildings and the killing, imprisoning, and the oppression of religious leaders and believers (for details see: communism). In the atheistic and communist Soviet Union, 44 anti religious museums were opened and the largest was the 'The Museum of the History of Religion and Atheism' in Leningrad’s Kazan cathedral.[43]
Richard Dawkins Lost a Debate to a Rabbi and then Claimed the Debate Never Took Place
 
Richard Dawkins, (photo by Shane Pope, obtained from Flickr, see Creative commons license agreement)

See also: Richard Dawkins and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Atheism and Debate

As briefly noted earlier Richard Dawkins had a debate with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Rabbi Shmuley Boteach was named the London Times Preacher of the Year 2000 and is the author of 20 books.[44]

Recently Rabbi Shmuley Boteach wrote: “    ...Dawkins attacked me on his website and denied that he and I had ever debated. My office quickly posted the full footage of a two hour debate which took place on October 23, 1996, a debate which Dawkins actually lost after a vote taken by the students as to which side, science or religion, caused more students to change their minds. In my article on the subject responding to his attack I was extremely respectful of Dr. Dawkins and was therefore shocked to receive a letter in return in which he accused me of speaking like Hitler. Had the noted scientist lost his mind? Hitler? Was this for real?[45]    ”

WorldNetDaily offers the following quotes of Rabbi Boteach about debate and the initial denial by Dawkins that the debate never took place: “    That is a particularly bold untruth. Our debate, which took place at St. Catherine's College, Oxford on Oct. 23, 1996, attracted hundreds of students and featured, on the atheist side, Prof. Dawkins and chemistry Prof. Peter Atkins, and on the religion side, me and Prof. Keith Ward, Oxford's Regius Professor of Divinity. Student president Josh Wine was in the chair," the rabbi explained.

"In a vote at the end of the debate as to how many students had changed their minds after hearing the arguments, Dawkin's side was defeated and religion prevailed, which might account for his selective memory," he wrote.[46]    ”

Rabbi Boteach reported at Beliefnet: “I also gave Dr. Dawkins the opportunity to even score by accepting a further debate, at the time and place of his choosing (within reason, of course), to which he has yet to respond.[47] ”

A video of the debate that Dawkins lost to Rabbi Shmuley Boteach is available at Rabbi Schely Boteach's website.[48]
Christian apologist Dr. William Lane Craig is Reported to Have Called Dawkins a Coward

See also: Richard Dawkins and William Lane Craig and Atheism and Debate

Dr. William Lane Craig is one of Christianity's leading defenders and many individuals over the years have attempted to arrange a debate between Dr. Craig and Richard Dawkins. Richard Dawkins has offered various ruses on why he will not debate William Lane Craig, which Dr. Craig supporters have shown were inconsistent and merely a dodge to avoid debating one of Christianity's strongest advocates.[49][50]
 
Dr. William Lane Craig

Christian apologist Dr. Victor Reppert is the author of C. S. Lewis's Dangerous Idea: In Defense of the Argument from Reason.[51] In 2007, Dr. Reppert wrote: “Bill Craig sent me a newsletter in which he will be debating twice in the UK on "Is God a Delusion" but will not be debating Dawkins himself. Now that would be the debate to see! Having seen this, I wrote him saying "Oh drat! no debate with Dawkins!" He responded:  The coward! He said, "I've never heard of William Craig. A debate with him might look good on his resume, but it wouldn't look good on mine!" Bill[52]”


There is now growing public pressure for Dawkins to debate the Christian philosopher of science and Christian apologist Dr. William Lane Craig.[53][54] For example, currently there is a petition for Richard Dawkins debate William Lane Craig.[55] YouTube recently featured a video which incorporates an audio excerpt of Craig stating that he would like to debate Dawkins and also features Dr. Craig commenting on Dawkins refusal to debate him.[56]
Refusal of Richard Dawkins to Debate Christian apologist Dinesh D'Souza
 
Dinesh D'Souza

See also: Richard Dawkins and Dinesh D'Souza and Atheism and Debate

Christian author Dinesh D'Souza wrote concerning Richard Dawkins refusal to debate him: "To be honest, I find your behavior extremely bizarre. You go halfway around the world to chase down televangelists to outsmart them in an interview format that you control, but given several opportunities to engage the issues you profess to care about in a true spirit of open debate and inquiry, you duck and dodge and run away."[57] D'Souza further wrote concerning Dawkins: "When he is confronted with history, philosophy, and logic, Dawkins seems to have very little to say."[58] Next, D'Souza indicated Dawkins was a "showman who takes on unprepared and unsuspecting opponents when you yourself control the editing, but when a strong opponent shows up you manufacture reasons to avoid him."[59] Lastly, D'Souza wrote: "So why doth Dawkins languish in his corner, attended by sycophants? Tremble not, Sir Richard. 'Cowards die many times before their deaths. The valiant do taste of death but once.'"[60]

Dr. Jamie Glazov wrote concerning the refusal of Richard Dawkins to debate Dinesh D'Souza: “    As many readers can attest, D’Souza has debated Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Peter Singer, Michael Shermer, Dan Barker, and other well-known atheists. He intellectually cut those guys to pieces. Harris and Dawkins are just afraid to meet D’Souza. D’Souza writes: “And my challenges to Dawkins to step into the arena have only met with pathetic rationalization: ‘Richard is simply too busy and smart to debate you Dinesh.’ Busy doing what besides being caught with his pants down by Ben Stein? And I guess he's smart because he doesn't want to risk further embarrassing himself and destroying his public reputation. Won't it be hilarious if the ‘party of faith’ is unafraid of opposing arguments while the ‘party of reason’ cannot withstand the arguments of its critics? This is what Henry James might describe as a most interesting turning of the screw.”[61]    ”

Richard Dawkins' public refusal to debate creationists
 
Recently, a Christian apologist called Richard Dawkins a "cowardly clown" for refusing to debate apt debate challengers such as the creation scientists at Creation Ministries International.[62] Dr. Jonathan Sarfati recently published the book The Greatest Hoax on Earth which rebuts Richard Dawkins' recent book The Greatest Show on Earth.[63]

For more information please see: Richard Dawkins' public refusal to debate creationists

Richard Dawkins has publicly declared that he will not debate creationists.[64] Yet, Richard Dawkins debated the theist John Lennox who adheres to the position of intelligent design.[65] According to Richard Dawkins, intelligent design is a form of creationism/creation science.[66] Therefore, Richard Dawkins is not consistent and trustworthy concerning his assertion that he will not debate creationists.[67] Evolutionists and atheists inconsistency concerning debating creationists was commented on by the Christian apologetic website True Free Thinker which declared: "Interestingly enough, having noted that since some atheists refuse to debate “creationists” but then go on to debate some of those people but not others, it is clear that they are, in reality, being selective and making excuses for absconding from difficulties..."[68] When Richard Dawkins refused to debate Dr. William Lane Craig one of the ruses Richard Dawkins used was supposedly because Dr. Craig was a creationist and Richard Dawkins claimed he didn't debate creationist.[69] Richard was called on his inconsistency and lack of trustworthiness concerning his excuses for refusing to debate Dr. Craig by the intelligent design advocate Clive Hayden.[70]

In 2010, the prominent atheists who attended the 2010 global atheist conference, which included Richard Dawkins, were challenged to a debate by Creation Ministries International.[71] Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers and other prominent atheists refused to debate the creation scientists at Creation Ministries International.[72] Generally speaking, creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates.

The refusal of Richard Dawkins and other prominent atheists to debate the staff of Creation Ministries International is not surprising given that there are several instances Richard Dawkins avoiding strong debate opponents. In addition, creationists maintain that Richard Dawkins did not give a particularly strong showing at the Huxley Memorial Debate. One of the more embarrassing debates (particular the events surrounding the debate) was the case of Richard Dawkins losing a video taped debate to Rabbi Boteach according to the college audience.[73][74] After the debate, Richard Dawkins denied the debate ever took place and Rabbi Boteach provided the video taped evidence that the debate did take place.[75][76] Mr. Dawkins has declined to debate Rabbit Shmuley Boteach another time.[77][78] Incidentally, Paul Humber notes there was a deception that occurred during email correspondence with Mr. Dawkins concerning the tally of vote counts that occurred for the Oxford debate between creation scientists Professor A.E. Wilder-Smith and Professor Edgar Andrews and evolutionists Richard Dawkins and John Maynard Smith (see: Huxley Memorial Debate)[79] Mr. Humber did not indicate whether Mr. Dawkins committed the deception or was merely duped by someone who provided an altered account.[80]
 
Atheist and evolutionist PZ Myers, (photo obtained from Flickr, see license agreement)

The website True Free Thinker declared concerning the refusal of Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers and other prominent atheists to debate the creation scientists and other staff at Creation Ministries International: “    In keeping with his constant attention getting shenanigans and his equally constant absconding from debating apt challengers via a barrage of illogical and excuses, the moniker of cowardly clown fits Richard Dawkins more than ever (see Send in the Clowns – Richard Dawkins Obliges).

Enter Jonathan Sarfati (PhD in chemistry),senior scientist at Creation Ministries International, who recently published the book “The Greatest Hoax on Earth? Refuting Dawkins on Evolution.” Interestingly, Jonathan Sarfati sought to publish the book by the time that the 2010 Global Atheist Convention—billed as “The Rise of Atheism”—of March 12-14 at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Center in Australia.

The most intelligent, well informed and vociferous atheists in the world, including Richard Dawkins, Dan Barker, PZ Myers, et al, were challenged to debate while their worldwide choir was gathered in one place and yet, one by one they each found excuses to cower from debate even whilst proclaiming to their adherents the intellectual superiority of atheism.[81]    ”

Richard Dawkins excuses for not debating creationists

Richard Dawkins has offered some unjustifiable ruses for not not wanting to debate creationists but the true reason is that he knows he will lose the debates.

There are certainly reputable scientists, medical doctors and members of the public who hold the evolutionary paradigm in low esteem for quite valid reasons so Dawkins excuses for refusing to debate creationists simply have little to no weight and they are certainly not the best explanation for Mr. Dawkins' behavior in this matter. In 2007, "Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture today announced that over 700 scientists from around the world have now signed a statement expressing their skepticism about the contemporary theory of Darwinian evolution."[82] In addition, given that atheism is held in low esteem in many parts of the world and it is a minority position worldwide, Dawkins' refusal to debate strong theistic debaters is quite odd given his allegation that he doesn't debate creationists because he doesn't want to give them respectability and publicity. Furthermore, the Rabbi Boteach debate and the events surrounding it, shows the great lengths that Dawkins will go to avoid letting the public know about a debate loss to a theist (As mentioned previosly Dawkins lost his video taped debate to Rabbi Boteach and then claimed the debate never took place). The reason why Dawkins refuses to debate creation scientists is that generally speaking, creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates.
Selective outrage on child molestation and so called "gentle pedophiles"
 
Ben-Peter Terpstra wrote in the Australian Conservative: "In all truth, Britain’s clean-shaven atheists aren’t serious about children’s rights, or they’d be launching venomous attacks against the United Nations, in light of their more recent sex abuse scandals."[83].(photo obtained from Flickr, see license agreement)

For more information please see: Richard Dawkins on child molestation and so called "gentle pedophiles"

The Australian Conservative recently published an article by Ben-Peter Terpstra entitled Preparing for Richard Dawkins’ crocodile tears which charges that Richard Dawkins exhibits selective outrage on the issue of child molestation.[84] In the article Terpstra cites Bendan Oneill who wrote: “ The New Atheist campaign to have Pope Benedict XVI arrested when he visits Britain later this year exposes the deeply disturbing, authoritarian and even Inquisitorial side to today’s campaigning secularism... In 2006, Dawkins criticised ‘hysteria about paedophilia’ and said that, even though he was the victim of sexual abuse at boarding school, he would defend his abusive former teachers if ‘50 years on they had been hounded by vigilantes or lawyers as no better than child murderers’. Yet now he wants to put abusive priests on a par with genocidaires.[85]    ”

Ben-Peter Terpstra writes: "In all truth, Britain’s clean-shaven atheists aren’t serious about children’s rights, or they’d be launching venomous attacks against the United Nations, in light of their more recent sex abuse scandals."[86]

Concerning Richard Dawkins recent selective outrage on child molestation the Christian apologetics website True Free Thinker writes: “His reputation has always been the very same and this Pope related publicity stunt is nothing new. Moreover, why would he oppose the Pope considering that what the Pope may be complicit in, surely, relates to some gentle pedophiles. What! “Gentle pedophiles”!!! Oh, no, no, no; those are not my words but Richard Dawkins who, indeed, argues that there are gentle pedophiles and that way too much is made of pedophilia at times.  For these reasons and more Robert Fulford’s referring to Richard Dawkins as a clown is very, very offensive—to clowns. Clowns are lovable and funny whilst Richard Dawkins is belligerent, arrogant, belittling and shockingly lacking in knowledge with regards to many of the issues that he takes on (find ample evidence here).[87]”

Implication in the death of Jesse Kilgore
 
Pitzer College sociologist Phil Zuckerman stated concerning atheism and suicide: "this is the one indicator of societal health in which religious nations fare much better than secular nations."

Dawkins' book "The God Delusion" along with a community college biology class, have been linked to the tragic suicide of Jesse Kilgore.[88] Kilgore had several discussions with friends and relatives in which he made it clear Dawkins' book had destroyed his belief in God. This loss of faith is considered the cause of his suicide which is not surprising given that there is evidence which suggest that atheism can be a causal factor for suicide for some individuals.[89][90][91][92]

Jesse's father is quoted as saying "If my son was a professing homosexual, and a professor challenged him to read [a book called] 'Preventing Homosexuality'… If my son was gay and [the book] made him feel bad, hopeless, and he killed himself, and that came out in the press, there would be an outcry. He would have been a victim of a hate crime and the professor would have been forced to undergo sensitivity training, and there may have even been a wrongful death lawsuit. But because he's a Christian, I don't even get a return telephone call."

Jesse's blog remains online after his death.[93]

Richard Dawkins and the women and minority population
 
Survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the Western World, atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women. According to the website tracking firms Alexa and Quantcast women frequent the website of richarddawkins.net significantly less than men.[94][95]

Recently, Vox Day and Wired Magazine made the observation that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially changed men.[96]

Women's views of Richard Dawkins

See also: Women's views of Richard Dawkins

Survey data and website tracking data of prominent atheist websites indicate that in the Western World, atheism appears to be significantly less appealing to women. According to the website tracking firms Alexa and Quantcast women frequent the website of richarddawkins.net significantly less than men.[97][98] One possible explanation of many women's lack of interest in the message of Richard Dawkins is the abrasiveness of Richard Dawkins. For example, in September of 2010, Richard Dawkins became nasty towards a woman in an audience he spoke before.[99] Another plausible explanation for many women having a lack of enthusiasm for Richard Dawkins's message is that many women who attend religious services and hold traditional beliefs and values find Richard Dawkins' atheism and atheistic values repugnant. In terms of traditional values, as noted earlier, in 2007, when asked in an interview, "If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?", Dawkins replied, "What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question, but whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath."[19]

(See also: Richard Dawkins' commentary on Adolf Hitler and Essay: Richard Dawkins' comment concerning Adolf Hitler )

Recently, Vox Day and Wired Magazine made the observation that atheists tend to be quarrelsome, socially changed men.[100]

Richard Dawkins commentary on Mary the Mother of Jesus

In 2010, the Christian apologetics website True Free Thinker wrote: “The atheist and evolutionist Richard Dawkins just referred to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as a ‘submissive cosmic doormat’...  If Richard Dawkins had a better grasp of womanhood and a greater grasp of manhood, he would still be married to his first wife and not his third.[101]”

Racial Minority population views' of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

According to the web traffic tracking firm Quantcast, the following racial groups have below average interest in the website richarddawkins.net: Asians, Hispanics, and African Americans.[102] In addition, according to the web traffic tracking firm Quantcast, the following racial groups have below average interest in the website samharris.org: Asians, Hispanics, and African Americans.[103] This suggest that the New Atheist movement may be significantly less appealing to racial minorities.

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and the white male audience

According to the Quantcast data, white males appear to be the group of individuals who are most receptive to Richard Dawkins' and atheist Sam Harris' message.[104][105] This finding suggest that New Atheism movement is significant more appealing to white males.
Opposition to Creationism and Religion
Professor Dawkins' anti-religious views are based on two subjective opinions. The first is that religious faith is irrational, the second is that religion causes wars and hatred, or as he puts it, 'Religion makes good people bad'.

Richard Dawkins is a writer and media commentator on the debate between the theory of evolution and the opposing positions of creation science and intelligent design.[106][107] He is an ardent proponent of the evolutionary view of life in works targeted at the general public, such as his books entitled The Selfish Gene and The Ancestor's Tale. However, his efforts to promote the theory of evolution have not been very successful, and even in his native land of the UK, 40% of the population believes that creationism or intelligent design should be taught in the school science curriculum.[108]
 
Lord Robert Winston stated Richard Dawkins is bringing science "into disrepute".

As an atheist and evolutionist, Dawkins holds Charles Darwin's view that "the universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference." In addition, he often comes across as having a mocking attitude towards religion.[109] He stridently[110] opposes the traditional role of religion in educational institutions and in society in general.[111] Dawkins has derided belief in God as a "mind-virus",[112] which is infectious and harmful to society. In his 2006 book The God Delusion, he states his belief that fundamentalist religion "subverts science and saps the intellect,"[113] a view that is contrary to the fact that many of the most productive scientists, from Isaac Newton to Louis Pasteur, were devout Christians. The foundation of modern science was largely established by those who held a Christian worldview. Dawkins often says that these men were rather a product of their time and, like many that came before them, lived in fear of persecution by Christians. There is no substantive evidence for this. Dawkins also cites in his book, the God Delusion, that not one winner of the Nobel Prize for Science is a theist. While this has been openly debated, he cites his own personal relationships with many of these scientists.
 
Alister McGrath

Lord Robert Winston is a prominent scientist and British doctor who served as the President of the British Association for the Advancement of Science from 2004 to 2005.[114] Currently, Lord Winston serves as Emeritus Professor of Fertility Studies at Imperial College in Britain.[115] In 2006, Winston launched a broadside against Richard Dawkins and stated that he is bringing science "into disrepute" due to his refusal to "connect with spirituality".[116] Winston also stated that Dawkins "sometimes doesn't seem to understand the limitations of science."[116]

Alister McGrath, a Christian theologian who has a background in biophysics and is Professor of Historical Theology at Oxford University, wrote: “    Richard Dawkins’ latest book The God Delusion fires off a series of salvos against religion. It is perhaps his weakest book to date, marred by its excessive reliance on bold assertion and rhetorical flourish, where the issues so clearly demand careful reflection and painstaking analysis, based on the best evidence available.[117]”

Atheist philosopher Michael Ruse echoes McGrath's estimation of The God Delusion and recently stated that the book makes him embarrassed to be an atheist.[118]

Professor McGrath asserts that the aggressive rhetoric of Dawkins' works is merely a mask to cover a deep insecurity about the public credibility of atheism.[118] McGrath recently wrote a book opposing the atheist ideology of Dawkins entitled The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine.[119]
Darwin's Rottweiler and the Huxley Memorial Debate

The September 2005 issue of Discover magazine had an article on Richard Dawkins entitled "Darwin’s Rottweiler".[120] The title is an allusion to Thomas Henry Huxley who became to be known as "Darwin's Bulldog".[121] Huxley is arguably most well known for his debate with Bishop Samuel Wilberforce over the theory of evolution, and evolutionists and creationist dispute whether or not a key claimed event in the debate actually occurred.[122] The Discover article stated the following: “    Dawkins has become “Darwin’s rottweiler”— as Alister McGrath, an Oxford theologian, reminded readers of his recent book, Dawkins' God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life — so intent on prevailing in intellectual combat that he alienates others and undermines the dazzling quality of his argumentative skills."[120]    ”

The Simonyi Professorship Home Page promotes the idea that Richard Dawkins is "Darwin's Rottweiler" and has an article published in the Seattle newspaper EastSideweek which states the following: “    ...Thomas Henry Huxley, earned the nickname "Darwin's bulldog" from his fellow Victorians. In our own less decorous day, Dawkins deserves an even stronger epithet: "Darwin's Rottweiler, perhaps," Simonyi suggests. Now, thanks to Simonyi's gift of £1.5 million sterling to England's venerable Oxford University, the Rottweiler is unleashed."[123]    ”
 
Dr. Arthur Ernest Wilder-Smith

Now given that Thomas Henry Huxley's is arguably most well known for his debate over the theory of evolution and given that Dawkins has stated he will no longer debate a creation scientists the title of "Darwin's Rottweiler" can certainly be disputed.[124] Creationists wrote regarding Richard Dawkins current refusal to debate a creation scientist: “    A. E. Wilder-Smith is also probably responsible for Richard Dawkins refusing to debate creationists any more. In 1986, Wilder-Smith and Edgar Andrews debated the two leading evolutionists in Britain, Richard Dawkins and John Maynard Smith, at Oxford – a lions’ den with the two strongest Darwinian lions in Europe. Yet even there, over a third – almost half – of the staunchly pro-evolution audience voted that the creation side had won the debate. The vote count became a contentious issue. There were claims of a cover-up by the Oxford Student Union. The AAAS was accused of lying about the vote count and didn’ [sic] correct it even when confronted (see article). The evolutionists apparently were embarrassed that the creationists made such a strong showing. For whatever reason, Dawkins no longer will debate creationists. Reports from those in attendance say that, contrary to the ground rules of the debate, the Dawkins and Maynard Smith repeatedly attacked religion, while the creationists used only scientific arguments. Dawkins himself had to be reprimanded by the moderator for attacking Wilder-Smith about his religious views. Dawkins implored the audience not to give any votes to the creationists lest it be a “blot on the escutcheon of ancient University of Oxford” (an odd remark, considering Oxford was founded by Christians). After the debate, details of the event were lost by the University. Normally, Oxford Union debates are big news, given prominent publicity in the press, radio and television. This one, however, which should have rivalled the historic 1860 Huxley-Wilberforce debate in importance, and indeed was even titled the ’Huxley Memorial Debate,” was silently dropped from the radar screen. In his memoirs, Dr. Wilder-Smith wrote, “No records of my having held the lecture as part of the Oxford Union Debate could be found in any library. No part of the official media breathed a word about it.[125]    ”

The aforementioned debate involving Richard Dawkins is fairly well known in creationist/intelligent design circles and the debate was tape recorded.[126] In August of 2003 the Creation Research Society published some interesting material about their correspondence with Richard Dawkins which focused on the debate.[127] The Creation Research Society declared:
 
Henry Morris“    Despite Dr. Dawkins’ plea, there were apparently 115 votes for the creation position (more than 37%). This was done near Darwin’s turf. Imagine flat-earthers going to NASA and convincing over 37% of the scientists there that the earth is flat. Maybe creation science is not as closely akin to flat-earthism as Dr. Dawkins supposes (see his Free Inquiry article).[127]    ”

Richard Dawkins no longer will debate a creation scientist.[128] Robert Sloan, Director of Paleontology at the University of Minnesota, reluctantly admitted to a Wall Street Journal reporter that the "creationists tend to win" the public debates which focused on the creation vs. evolution controversy.[129][130] In August of 1979, Dr. Henry Morris reported in an Institute for Creation Research letter the following: “By now, practically every leading evolutionary scientist in this country has declined one or more invitations to a scientific debate on creation/evolution.”[130] Morris also said about the creation scientist Duane Gish (who had over 300 formal debates): “At least in our judgment and that of most in the audiences, he always wins.”[130] Generally speaking, leading evolutionists generally no longer debate creation scientists.[131]
Richard Dawkins violation' of the terms of the debate proceedings

As noted earlier, it was agreed before the debate that discussion of religion was not to occur during the debate and that only the evidence related to the physical sciences were going to be discussed. At the end of the debate, Richard Dawkins started to give an impassioned plea to the audience to not give a single vote to the creationists which would show support for creationism. Mr. Dawkins was told to sit down by the President of the Oxford Union for violating the terms of the debate as far as not mentioning religion (as noted earlier John Maynard Smith also violated the terms of the debate).[132]
Deception related to email correspondence with Richard Dawkins

As mentioned earlier, Paul Humber notes there was a deception that occurred during email correspondence with Mr. Dawkins concerning the tally of vote counts that occurred for the Huxley Memorial Debate between creation scientists Professor A.E. Wilder-Smith and Professor Edgar Andrews and evolutionists Richard Dawkins and John Maynard Smith.[133] Mr. Humber did not indicate whether Mr. Dawkins committed the deception or was merely duped by someone who provided an altered account.[134]
Abrasiveness of Richard Dawkins

Gary Demar commenting on the abrasiveness and incivility of Richard Dawkins quotes Dawkins stating the following:
 
Dr. R. Albert Mohler Jr.“It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that).[135]”

Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr. has echoed Mr. Demar's estimation of Richard Dawkins and has stated regarding Richard Dawkins the following: “    His aggressiveness and abrasiveness have now prompted some of his fellow defenders of evolution to wonder if he is doing their cause more harm than good.

The September 2005 issue of Discover magazine features an article that raises this very question. In "Darwin's Rottweiler," author Stephen S. Hall suggests that Dawkins is simply "far too fierce."....

Dawkins admits that he just may be "a bit of a loose canon." In reality, that is a significant understatement.[136]”

In addition, Richard Dawkins appears to have had struggles maintaining marital harmony in his life and as noted earlier two of his marriages ended in divorce (see also: Women's views of Richard Dawkins).
Brights Movement
 
Ex-atheist and psychologist Dr. Paul Vitz

The Brights Movement was started in 2003 by Paul Geisert and Mynga Futrell in order to assist in the advocacy of a naturalistic worldview. In October of 2003 in a article in the Guardian, Richard Dawkins associated being a "bright" with being an intellectual.[137] Atheist author and columnist Christopher Hitchens expressed his "annoyance at Professor Dawkins and Daniel Dennett, for their cringe-making proposal that atheists should conceitedly nominate themselves to be called "brights".[138] ABC News.com commentator John Allen Paulos remarked of the Brights campaign, "I don't think a degree in public relations is needed to expect that many people will construe the term as smug, ridiculous, and arrogant" (Paulos 2003).[139]Psychologist and ex-atheist Dr. Paul Vitz wrote a book entitled Faith of the Fatherless in which he focuses on his study of the lives of more than a dozen leading atheists.[140] Dr. Vitz has stated there were two common factors he observed in the leading atheists he profiled: they were all intelligent and arrogant.[141] Richard Dawkins is listed as an "Enthusiastic Bright" at the Brights Movement website.[142]

Other reactions to Dawkins' views within the academic community

Some in the academic community are critical of Richard Dawkins. One such example is Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal and President of the Royal Society. In a debate in May 2007 between Rees and Dawkins, Rees said that science needed as many friends as possible and that creating enemies within mainstream religion will make it "more difficult to combat the kinds of anti-science sentiments that are really important". He also argued that it will make it more difficult to fight terrorism. Richard Dawkins counter-argued that being nice to bishops helps to foster the view that faith is virtuous and can excuse any act on its behalf. Rees continued to argue that religion has no monopoly on being unreasonable citing examples of scientific sects such as the Raelians or extreme eco-groups as being as dangerous as religious fundamentalists.[143]

Among theologians there are many critics of Richard Dawkins, a notable example being Alister McGrath as noted earlier. Alister McGrath is Professor of Historical Theology at the University of Oxford. He has accused Dawkins of being ignorant of theology and has written a book challenging Dawkins' anti-religious stance, The Dawkins Delusion. Even among biology colleagues, there are critics. While Ken Miller, a biology professor, doesn't challenge Dawkins' views on evolution, he does take issue with his insistence that religion and science are incompatible.[144]

Richard Dawkins, for his part, claims bafflement that some scientists he respects are capable of religious faith.[145][146]

Criticism of the Blind Watchmaker and Climbing Mount Improbable
 
Dr. Dallas Willard

American philosopher Dr. Dallas Willard wrote concerning The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins:

“When he writes a book like the present one he is not functioning as a scientist. If he were, he should incorporate his "findings" into the most advanced textbooks in the field and see how they fare as representations of established knowledge. He complains that "the true, Darwinian explanation of our own existence is still, remarkably, not a routine part of the curriculum of a general education." Then by all means let him enter the academic arena and present his views about the watchmaker as established knowledge. He should not reserve his views for infliction upon a largely helpless public whom his scientific credentials and elaborate rhetorical devices will overwhelm and make incapable of any accurate assessment of argument. When he writes books like The Blind Watchmaker he is just a naturalist metaphysician, trying to cozy up to the scientists and blend into their company in such a way that his true colors will not be noticed. He takes the liberty to dress down what he calls "redneck creationism", but unfortunately there are rednecks on the side of "Darwinianism" as well. He is one of the most outstanding.[147]”


Dr. Jonathan Sarfati offered several criticisms of the book The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins and states in his summary that the "...Apostle of Atheism has a long way to go to make a convincing case for his faith."[148]
Non-Academic Position at Oxford Up until his retirement from the post in September 2008, Dawkins was the Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, having been appointed as the first holder of this endowed position[149]. One Reverend has accused him of using his post "not to promote science, but rather his own atheistic materialist philosophy."[150]  The "post" was a donated one, and is not a normal professorship[151] at the Museum of Natural History, an institution owned by the University of Oxford. The "post" did not entail "substantial teaching and administrative duties within Oxford University." According to the Simonyi Professorship website, the professor holding this position is to "communicate scientific ideas through a variety of media, in order to reach a wide range of people."[152] However, in a review of the book Climbing Mount Improbable by Richard Dawkins, Dr. Jonathan Sarfati has stated regarding Dawkins's position at Oxford:
 
British author Paul Johnson called it ‘Oxford’s first Chair of Atheism.’ But true (operational) science involves repeatable, observable experimentation in the present, which includes physics, chemistry, experimental biology and geology, etc. ... Dawkins has made no notable contributions to any of these, or even to the history or philosophy of science.[148]

It has been claimed by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach that the special terms of this gift might have allowed Dawkins to bypass the peer review promotion process customarily required before receiving the title of "professor" as he believes a decree by Oxford seems to imply this. Rabbi Shmuley Boteach wrote about Dawkins' claim to legitimate professorship: “    Many publications refer to you as 'Professor' Richard Dawkins, even though, as your critics maintain, leading Universities regularly deny to any Professor who played a role in acquiring the funding for their own chair the use of the title. Your critics may be wrong here, Richard, but they cite the fact that the Oxford University Hebdomadal Council Decree of 6 November 1995, establishing the Charles Simonyi Professorship, says that you hold a "post" rather than a "professorship." They write that since your post was endowed by Charles Simonyi and the terms of the gift allowed you to bypass the peer review promotion process customarily required for a professorship, it will become a "professorship" only when a subsequent beneficiary is promoted to the position based on a peer review election process, which, they maintain, was not conducted for your receipt of the post. Now, you defended yourself in a posting on your website, dated Sept. 28, 2006, and wrote that you were "elected to the Charles Simonyi Professorship." But that does seem to directly contradict the Hebdamadol Council decree cited above which expressly says "Notwithstanding the provisions of Ch. VII, Sect. III (which discuss the election of a professor to the post), the income from the endowment shall be applied in the first instance to fund a post in the Public Understanding of Science to be held by Dr C.R. Dawkins, Fellow of New College." It seems, so your critics contend, that your appointment was a condition of the grant rather than the product of an election, and since it may be that you are falsely maligned in the matter, your clarification as to the true nature of your professorship, whose official location is the Museum of Natural History, is welcomed."[153]    ”

Richard Dawkins announced his intention to retire from his position in September 2008:
"The University of Oxford has advertised the Charles Simonyi Professorship in the Public Understanding of Science. I retire from the Chair in September 2008."[154]

Awards
Silver Medal of the Zoological Society of London (1989)
Royal Society's Michael Faraday Award (1990)
Nakayama Prize for Achievement in Human Science (1990)
The International Cosmos Prize (1997)
Kistler Prize (2001)
Shakespeare Prize of the Alfred Toepfer Foundation (2005)
Lewis Thomas Prize for Writing about Science (2006)
Galaxy British Book Awards Author of the Year (2007)
Honorary Doctorates in both literature and science
Fellow of the Royal Society[155]
Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature

Books
Dawkins has written nine books: eight have been on evolution and evolutionary theory, the other is his New York Times bestselling atheist polemic The God Delusion.  The first of his books, The Selfish Gene, was published in 1976, and won him international acclaim. It has sold over one million copies and has been translated into 25 languages.

His books are:
The Selfish Gene (1976)
The Extended Phenotype (1982)
The Blind Watchmaker (1986)
River Out of Eden (1995)
Climbing Mount Improbable (1996)
Unweaving the Rainbow (1998)
A Devil's Chaplain (2003)
The Ancestor's Tale (2004)
The God Delusion (2006)
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« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2010, 02:01:50 PM »

You don't understand history very well if you don't believe Christianity has been important in humanity's struggle against tyranny.  And just because someone says they are Christian doesn't mean they are.  A true Christian strives to be Christ-like.  I don't think Hitler did so.  

Anyway, I hope you never have to live in a world where people have abandoned belief in God.  You will find yourself living a nightmare, I assure you.

You are totally not understanding the point. As individuals, if you want to worship a god, go for it. This should not be something forced by the nation, or by a constitution.

I know that leaders who say they are Christians are actually not. Of course! But look at all the sheep the blindly follow them. So many Americans actually believed that going to Iraq was a "christian" thing to do. I am not joking. We just need to get the religion out of politics and governmental policy altogether.

And to say that Christianity has helped the struggle against tyranny doesn't mean that it's the only way, or that we should build a nation based on it. I'll tell you this: Logic and Reason and the actions of man have helped far more to resist tyranny than religion ever could.

If you look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the very first line shows the dangers I am talking about!:

Quote
Whereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

What good is the piece of paper that recognizes the supremacy of something that doesn't even exist?! This is totally crazy.

And does god speak through these leaders? Is that how we know what our rights are? These bums can say anything is in the name of god, because "god is the supreme law of the land". This how notion is totally silly.

And when people finally accept that god doesn't exist... doesn't that throw the entire Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms out of whack?

This is a very real and a very big problem, as any government official can start violating the rights and freedoms by simply saying it's god's decree, and I guess the sheep have to take his/her word for it because god speaks through them, or because the bible said so. Totally and utterly ridiculous.
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« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2010, 02:12:50 PM »

Hey Richard Dawkins...you were awesome in Expelled.

Is there a sequel planned?

No, he refuses to debate Intelligent Design people anymore... when someone called him out on this on radio there was this funny exchange...

Richard Dawkins Runs From a Good Fight
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/10/richard_dawkins_runs_from_a_go026631.html

Dawkins: Where do you guys think -- do you think that God did it?

Chapman: I don't know, I don't think that the intelligent design people--

Dawkins: That's what you say, you always pretend, you always pretend that an alien in outer space or something, but you know very well that what you mean is God.

Chapman: No, I think that was your line in Expelled. But I think that the thing that you really ought to consider, in all seriousness, is that by your own definition there is a scientific argument. Put that scientific argument to the test, not with somebody who's a straw man that you bring up, but have somebody like Meyer, who has written a very scholarly book, to actually debate this topic with you...




Dawkins is just as slimy as Al Gore in some ways.
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
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« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2010, 02:22:58 PM »

You are totally not understanding the point. As individuals, if you want to worship a god, go for it. This should not be something forced by the nation, or by a constitution.

I know that leaders who say they are Christians are actually not. Of course! But look at all the sheep the blindly follow them. So many Americans actually believed that going to Iraq was a "christian" thing to do. I am not joking. We just need to get the religion out of politics and governmental policy altogether.

And to say that Christianity has helped the struggle against tyranny doesn't mean that it's the only way, or that we should build a nation based on it. I'll tell you this: Logic and Reason and the actions of man have helped far more to resist tyranny than religion ever could.

If you look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the very first line shows the dangers I am talking about!:

What good is the piece of paper that recognizes the supremacy of something that doesn't even exist?! This is totally crazy.

And does god speak through these leaders? Is that how we know what our rights are? These bums can say anything is in the name of god, because "god is the supreme law of the land". This how notion is totally silly.

And when people finally accept that god doesn't exist... doesn't that throw the entire Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms out of whack?

This is a very real and a very big problem, as any government official can start violating the rights and freedoms by simply saying it's god's decree, and I guess the sheep have to take his/her word for it because god speaks through them, or because the bible said so. Totally and utterly ridiculous.

The non-existence of God is your opinion, not a fact.  You are, of course, entitled to believe whatever you like.  You say you don't like the fact that rights or morals should be derived from God.  Okay, I understand that.  But if our rights don't have a divine origin, then they will always eventually come to be derived from the state, or the local warlord, or whoever is able to exert his power and will over you.  Sure, you can say that humans have intrinsic worth and value, but it will never work out that way.  It's simply human nature.  In the end, without God, the man holding the gun will tell you whether you can live or die.

Convincing humans that that they are nothing but highly evolved animals will nine times out of ten result in them behaving like animals. 

Oh, and btw, the theory of evolution is a total farce.  Sorry, if you've been deceived into believing it.
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« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2010, 02:23:11 PM »

You are totally not understanding the point. As individuals, if you want to worship a god, go for it. This should not be something forced by the nation, or by a constitution.

But your point is that Christianity or monotheism leads to genocide which is a lie, revisionist, and lacks the logical analytic abilities of a Rockefeller endorced MK Ultra labotomy patient.

Quote
I know that leaders who say they are Christians are actually not. Of course! But look at all the sheep the blindly follow them. So many Americans actually believed that going to Iraq was a "christian" thing to do. I am not joking. We just need to get the religion out of politics and governmental policy altogether.

Which sheep are you referring to? The sheep following CIA agents like Pat Robertson, Sung Yun Moon, Jim Jones, Charles Manson? The sheep given the secular wonder drug called fluoride (endorsed by both atheist Stalin and atheist Hitler as well as atheist Rockefeller).

Quote
And to say that Christianity has helped the struggle against tyranny doesn't mean that it's the only way, or that we should build a nation based on it. I'll tell you this: Logic and Reason and the actions of man have helped far more to resist tyranny than religion ever could.

Are you unfamiliar with the founding fathers' view of religion and the work they did to ensure the rights of man were always protected against tyranny that uses religion for control?

Quote
If you look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the very first line shows the dangers I am talking about!:

What good is the piece of paper that recognizes the supremacy of something that doesn't even exist?! This is totally crazy.

What good is your argument claiming that something which does enist, does not exist?

Quote
And does god speak through these leaders?

God is what ensures that no man be followed blindly and ensures that no inalienable rights can be taken away by man, majority, or even by oneself. If there was no god, would you invent him? I sure as heck would and that ability proves there is a god.

Quote
Is that how we know what our rights are?

That is what protects them from the globalist psychopathic incestuous degenerate nutballs who have been trying for over 6,000 years to take them away.

Quote
These bums can say anything is in the name of god, because "god is the supreme law of the land".

They can say it, but it does not make it true. Do your own research and try to figure out what your inalienable rights are. See if you have something to add or take away from the constitution.

Quote
This how notion is totally silly.

It is a lot less silly than IBM's autonomous sense and response system which can percieve threats to the planet and with extreme prejudice render the wrath of judgement to exterminate all so called perceived theats. That was part of the reason for the IBM machines controlling the population in Nazi Germany. And they are gearing up to do it again...again without any morals, inalienable rights, or acknowledgement of any higher power other than "TRUE BLUE".

Quote
And when people finally accept that god doesn't exist... doesn't that throw the entire Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms out of whack?

Not sure, how do you propose that everyone "finally accept that god does not exist"? Do you plan some re-education initiatives as Pope Innocent did to show that he was more powerful than god?

Quote
This is a very real and a very big problem, as any government official can start violating the rights and freedoms by simply saying it's god's decree,

Actually, this is totally impossible. It cannot be done because the use of god is such that no man can take away any right bestowed by god. And if your argument is how do you know that a right has been bestowed by god, well feel free to read Cyrus' human rights charter, magna carta, US founding documents. If you can think of something that is inaccurate in those, please feel free to debate them that will be very interesting indeed. See, your argument really is complete bullshit because you are not objecting to the rights, you are objecting to the concept of god. You are then using some ghost threat (like Bush used al-CIA-duh) to justify your argument even though the real threat lies in the movie Expelled and Stalin, and Mao, and Hitler, and Innocent, etc.

Quote
and I guess the sheep have to take his/her word for it because god speaks through them, or because the bible said so. Totally and utterly ridiculous.

Again a total moronic spew of incomprehensible rhetoric that only adds to the truth about Dawkins lacking basic brain functionality.
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« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2010, 02:33:33 PM »

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/selfish06/selfish06_index.html

Social-constructionist 'intellectuals,' and perhaps even the 'radical ism-ists' culture warriors of The New York Times Book Review might counter that science itself is but one more 'superstition.' But as Sir John Krebs points out below, Dawkins won't have any of this cultural relativism. Krebs quotes one of his favorite passages, not out of The Selfish Gene but from the book River Out of Eden:

Show me a cultural relativist at thirty thousand feet and I'll show you a hypocrite. Airplanes are built according to scientific principles and they work. They stay aloft and they get you to a chosen destination. Airplanes built to tribal or mythological specifications such as the dummy planes of the Cargo cults in jungle clearings or the bees-waxed wings of Icarus don't.

THE SELFISH GENE: THIRTY YEARS ON
Speakers: Daniel C. Dennett, Matt Ridley, Sir John Krebs, Ian McEwan, Richard Dawkins; Chair: Melvyn Bragg; Organiser: Helena Cronin for Darwin@LSE

Introduction

The toughest ticket in London's West End last week wasn't for a new mega-hit musical from Cameron Mackintosh, or a new play by Tom Stoppard. The people who flocked to The Old Theatre were greeted by famed British radio and television presenter Melvyn Bragg ("Start the Week") with the following opening words:

"They are in you and me; they created us, body and mind; and their preservation is the ultimate rationale for our existence. They have come a long way, those replicators. Now they go by the name of genes, and we are their survival machines."

The words are from The Selfish Gene, by evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins. And the evening was a celebration of the thirty year anniversary of the publication of his classic book. As I was unable to attend, I asked Helena Cronin, the founder and director of Darwin@LSE, (and the author of The Ant and the Peacock), to guest edit this special edition of Edge, and she has kindly provided us with the complete audio of the event as well supervising the editing of the transcribed text. Edge is extremely grateful to her for her efforts.

Of this event, philosopher Daniel C. Dennett noted:

"The illumination of Dawkins' incisive thinking on the intellectual world extends far beyond biology. What a treat to see so clearly how matter and meaning fit together, from fiction to philosophy to molecular biology, all in one unified vision!"

For cognitive scientist Steven Pinker, writing in The Times:

"The significance of Dawkins' ideas, for me and many others, runs to his characterization of the very nature of life and to a theme that runs throughout his writings: the possibility of deep commonalities between life and mind."

Physicist and computer scientist W. Daniel Hillis has noted:

"Notions like Selfish Genes, memes, and extended phenotypes are powerful and exciting. They make me think differently. Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time arguing against people who have overinterpreted these ideas. They're too easily misunderstood as explaining more than they do. So you see, this Dawkins is a dangerous guy. Like Marx. Or Darwin."

Part of Dawkins' danger is his emphasis on models derived from cybernetics and information theory, and that such models, when applied to our ideas of life, and in particular, human life, strike some otherwise intelligent people numb and dumb with fear and terror. Some have called the cybernetic idea the most important in 2000 years...since the idea of Jesus Christ. And that would make it one of the most dangerous ideas.

Pinker eloquently writes about how information theory fits into Dawkins' ideas, and implies why some may find these ideas troubling:

"Dawkins’s emphasis on the ethereal commodity called “information” in an age of biology dominated by the concrete molecular mechanisms is another courageous stance. There is no contradiction, of course, between a system being understood in terms of its information content and it being understood in terms of its material substrate. But when it comes down to the deepest understanding of what life is, how it works, and what forms it is likely to take elsewhere in the universe, Dawkins implies that it is abstract conceptions of information, computation, and feedback, and not nucleic acids, sugars, lipids, and proteins, that will lie at the root of the explanation."

The world has changed and the biggest change is the accelerated rate of change. On the front page, the news pages, and the OpEd page of The New York Times on any given day you will read about stem cell research, therapeutic cloning, synthesizing genes, Web 2.0, Internet 2, quantum computation, branes, extra dimensions, the Landscape, etc. This is evidence that third culture is the culture, that science is the culture.

In the mid-1970s, as a graduate student at Harvard, Robert Trivers wrote five papers that opened the door to the scientific study of human nature. (Trivers also wrote the introduction to the original 1976 edition of The Selfish Gene, restored in the 30th anniversary edition). Since that time, Dawkins, by building on the work of John Maynard Smith, William Hamilton, George C. Williams, and Trivers, and by adding and incorporating his own original, ingenious, and mind-bending ideas, has revolutionized the way we think about science and redefined the role of the public intellectual in western culture. It's not just about science: it's who we are, how we are, and even, how we think.

It's not surprising that some people want it all to go away. Around the fifteenth century, the word "humanism" was tied in with the idea of one intellectual whole. A Florentine nobleman knew that to read Dante but ignore science was ridiculous. Leonardo was a great artist, a great scientist, a great technologist. Michelangelo was an even greater artist and engineer. These men were intellectually holistic giants. To them, the idea of embracing humanism while remaining ignorant of the latest scientific and technological achievements would have been incomprehensible.

In the twentieth century, a period of great scientific advancement, instead of having science and technology at the center of the intellectual world — of having a unity in which scholarship included science and technology along with literature and art — the official culture kicked them out. Traditional humanities scholars looked at science and technology as some sort of technical special product. Elite universities nudged science out of the liberal arts undergraduate curriculum — and out of the minds of many young people, who, as the new academic establishment, so marginalized themselves that they are no longer within shouting distance of the action.

Yet it's the products of this educational system that go straight from their desks at university literary magazines to their offices in the heart of the cultural establishment at our leading newspapers, magazines, and publishers. It's a problem that's systemic and not individual. Unless one is pursuing a career path in science, it is extremely difficult for a non-science major at a top research university to graduate with anything approaching what can be considered an education in science. I recently talked with a noted Italian intellectual, who is as familiar with string theory and as he is with Dante, and writes about both in his philosophical novels. In appraising this situation, he argued for restraint and compassion. "They just don't know," he sighed, "they just don't know." He might well have added, they don't even know that they don't know.

Somebody needs to tell them. Otherwise, we wind up with the center of culture based on a closed system, a process of text in/text out, and no empirical contact with the real world. One can only marvel at, for example, art critics who know nothing about visual perception; "social constructionist" literary critics uninterested in the human universals documented by anthropologists; opponents of genetically modified foods, additives, and pesticide residues who are ignorant of genetics and evolutionary biology.

As examples, one need only read with astonishment, but not surprise, recent essays in The New York Times Book Review coining pejoratives such as "evolutionism" and "scientism" to critique the set of ideas that inform this edition of Edge. These essays appear not to be driven by any apparent scientific knowledge or expertise, but by a need in the writer to confirm deeply felt superstition-based ideas and/or pre-conceived political models. The message: science is not welcome. But apparently what is welcome is that which writers ignorant of science don't know about their subjects.

And, according to Daniel C. Dennett, such pieces are examples of the sin of Xism:

"When you can't stand the implications of some scientific discipline X, but can't think of any solid objections, you brand them instances of the sin of Xism and then you don't have to take them seriously! What next? A review that warns about the pernicious ''meteorologism'' that keeps scolding us about global warming, or the ''economism'' that has the effrontery to inform us that the gap between rich and poor is growing?"

Social-constructionist 'intellectuals,' and perhaps even the 'radical ism-ists' culture warriors of The New York Times Book Review might counter that science itself is but one more 'superstition.' But as Sir John Krebs points out below, Dawkins won't have any of this cultural relativism. Krebs quotes one of his favorite passages, not out of The Selfish Gene but from the book River Out of Eden:

Show me a cultural relativist at thirty thousand feet and I'll show you a hypocrite. Airplanes are built according to scientific principles and they work. They stay aloft and they get you to a chosen destination. Airplanes built to tribal or mythological specifications such as the dummy planes of the Cargo cults in jungle clearings or the bees-waxed wings of Icarus don't.

Below you will find:

(a) the complete 1 hour and 22 minute audio, available in two formats. You can listen to it as online streaming audio, or you can download it as an mp3 (75 MB) file and play it on your computer, iPod, etc.

(b) the 12,000-word transcript of the audio which each of the participants has lightly edited.

Stream it. Download it. Listen to it. Print it out. Read it.

— JB
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« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2010, 02:37:37 PM »

The non-existence of God is your opinion, not a fact.

No, it is not an opinion - it is fact. If I am wrong, then please present evidence to prove me wrong. In order for you to claim that something exists, you have to show evidence that it does in fact exist.

The converse is not true. You can't say to me, "Prove to me that god doesn't exist", because nobody can do that. It is impossible to show that something doesn't exist.

For example, let's say an individual murdered somebody and is now in trial. There is a video that shows the defendant committing the murder. The defense says, "Your honor, it could be a look-a-like that killed the victim. You can't possibly send my client to prison if you're not 100% sure he committed the murder."

You know what the judge has to say? "What evidence do you have to support that the person in this video was a look-a-like?"

The defense says, "Well, none your honor. But the prosecution can't prove that it wasn't a look-a-like!"

Then the judge proceeds to throw the entire claim out. Why? Because they don't have to prove such a claim. It is up to the defense to prove that something exists - in this case, a look-a-like. If there is not even a shred of evidence to even make this "a possibility", there is no way the judge can consider it... and consequently, the defense is laughed at.

The same argument is 100% true with the existence of god. If you think god exists, then you must prove it. The burden of proof is on you, not me. If you can't produce any evidence at all - and trust me, I know you can't - then we have to throw the claim out, along with all the "documents" - i.e. the bible - and all the other non-sense such a claim is based on.

You are, of course, entitled to believe whatever you like.  You say you don't like the fact that rights or morals should be derived from God.  Okay, I understand that.  But if our rights don't have a divine origin, then they will always eventually come to be derived from the state, or the local warlord, or whoever is able to exert his power and will over you.

Not true. The founding fathers designed the system to limit government. Everything else not put in the constitution was left to the people, so their rights were basically "everything else". This is easily the best way to go about it. Of course, people got confused and didn't know what their rights were, so they made the Bill of Rights anyway. But technically, it's not really needed.

Sure, you can say that humans have intrinsic worth and value, but it will never work out that way.  It's simply human nature.  In the end, without God, the man holding the gun will tell you whether you can live or die.

It is not in that person's rational self-interest to use the gun on you if it's not self-defense. Eventually, he will get caught, will be charged, etc. Even if he doesn't, he has to spend his entire life running from this, and constantly lie to people about what he did that day, etc. There is no way such a man could live at peace and be all that happy. People are free to act as they wish, but they are not free to escape the consequences.

This is also true of today's tyrants. All we have to do is put our foot down and take our country back... and yes, those bankers won't be able to escape their crimes. They will answer for their crimes if we want them to. It's up to us.

Convincing humans that that they are nothing but highly evolved animals will nine times out of ten result in them behaving like animals.

We are animals, but we are rational and have free-will. Our thinking is not automatic - we first have to choose to think, and then we have make choices between good and evil all the time. We also have to learn, as our knowledge is not automatic. We do this using our percepts and using reason. Reason is the means we have ability to use for our survival.
[/quote]
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Scootle
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« Reply #63 on: December 27, 2010, 02:41:09 PM »

Mystic is using Dawkins & Maher's Jedi mind trick...

Dawkins&Maher's Jedi mind trick:"Mao, Hitler, Stalin killed because of religion"
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=189644.0

Part of Dawkins' danger is his emphasis on models derived from cybernetics and information theory, and that such models, when applied to our ideas of life, and in particular, human life, strike some otherwise intelligent people numb and dumb with fear and terror. Some have called the cybernetic idea the most important in 2000 years...since the idea of Jesus Christ. And that would make it one of the most dangerous ideas.

Pinker eloquently writes about how information theory fits into Dawkins' ideas, and implies why some may find these ideas troubling:

"Dawkins’s emphasis on the ethereal commodity called “information” in an age of biology dominated by the concrete molecular mechanisms is another courageous stance. There is no contradiction, of course, between a system being understood in terms of its information content and it being understood in terms of its material substrate. But when it comes down to the deepest understanding of what life is, how it works, and what forms it is likely to take elsewhere in the universe, Dawkins implies that it is abstract conceptions of information, computation, and feedback, and not nucleic acids, sugars, lipids, and proteins, that will lie at the root of the explanation."

I don't know about his cybernetic views but I think Dawkins actually has a very poor understanding of information theory. Applying information theory to DNA actually overwhelmingly supports design. Where did all that genetic information come from? Well, where does a computer program come from? Randomly generated ones and zeros, or an intelligence?

Judging by the fact that Dawkins honestly considers his WEASEL program to be a good demonstration of Darwinian evolution, he clearly has a poor understanding of information theory lol.
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
citizenx
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« Reply #64 on: December 27, 2010, 02:41:35 PM »

Boy, you go and get yourself eight hours of sleep and a relatively nice discussion of universalist ethics and Ayn Rand turns into a free-for-all about Richard Dawkins and sex with a goat.

I'm sorry , Mystic, but you must not be the most able defender of secular morality on the block.

Universalist ethics does not necessarily lead to genetic experimentation or bestiality, let's just start there.  What a ridiculous  argument.  Religion isn't that good and humanism isn't that bad.

Honestly, Mysitic, if I didn't know any better I'd suspect you of working for the other side.  An undercover fundie?  Are they even allowed to do that?

And the rest of you universalist ethics bashers, shame on you.  Go pick on somebody your won size.

"Shall not the Lord of all the Earth do right?"

If God is just, what is "justice"?  Is morality not morality, independent of God?

Can God just make it up as he goes along?

Hopefully, that helps takes things back up to a higher plane.

Or, y'all can go back to goat-shtupping.

"And mud they had for mortar."

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lamourlady
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« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2010, 02:41:43 PM »

You are totally not understanding the point. As individuals, if you want to worship a god, go for it. This should not be something forced by the nation, or by a constitution.

I know that leaders who say they are Christians are actually not. Of course! But look at all the sheep the blindly follow them. So many Americans actually believed that going to Iraq was a "christian" thing to do. I am not joking. We just need to get the religion out of politics and governmental policy altogether.

And to say that Christianity has helped the struggle against tyranny doesn't mean that it's the only way, or that we should build a nation based on it. I'll tell you this: Logic and Reason and the actions of man have helped far more to resist tyranny than religion ever could.

If you look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the very first line shows the dangers I am talking about!:

What good is the piece of paper that recognizes the supremacy of something that doesn't even exist?! This is totally crazy.

And does god speak through these leaders? Is that how we know what our rights are? These bums can say anything is in the name of god, because "god is the supreme law of the land". This how notion is totally silly.

And when people finally accept that god doesn't exist... doesn't that throw the entire Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms out of whack?

This is a very real and a very big problem, as any government official can start violating the rights and freedoms by simply saying it's god's decree, and I guess the sheep have to take his/her word for it because god speaks through them, or because the bible said so. Totally and utterly ridiculous.

It is one thing to discuss why God could be a fallacy in relationship to freedom, but to demean someone else's belief as ridiculous is wrong.  An atheist could do as much harm without God backing it up in any form.  If our forefathers were Buddhist we'd be dispelling that religion and god.  I'd hate to think what we'd be debating if they had been atheist.

There will always be evil in the world with/without God; it will always creep into even the most perfect system, even Ayn's attempted solutions.  However, I respect your right to believe/worship her. Wink
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« Reply #66 on: December 27, 2010, 02:43:51 PM »

Boy, you go and get yourself eight hours of sleep and a relatively nice discussion of universalist ethics and Ayn Rand turns into a free-for-all about Richard Dawkins and sex with a goat.

I'm sorry , Mystic, but you must not be the most able defender of secular morality on the block.

LMAO!!!! Cheesy
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
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« Reply #67 on: December 27, 2010, 02:47:05 PM »

Quote
What good is the piece of paper that recognizes the supremacy of something that doesn't even exist?!



So, you really don't believe in God?

So, you think people should be able to have sex with goats?

Are you sure you are in the right forum to discuss such?

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Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

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« Reply #68 on: December 27, 2010, 02:48:47 PM »

So, you really don't believe in God?

So, you think people should be able to have sex with goats?

Are you sure you are in the right forum to discuss such?

I think the website he's looking for is forum.bohemiangrove.gov lol
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
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« Reply #69 on: December 27, 2010, 02:52:00 PM »

No, it is not an opinion - it is fact. If I am wrong, then please present evidence to prove me wrong.

How does a godless universe explain this?


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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
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« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2010, 02:52:06 PM »

I think the website he's looking for is forum.bohemiangrove.gov lol


or forum.aynrandworship     or   forum.darwinism.com


Are they not Atheist and/or Agnostic? People have a right to their beliefs, but it is fruitless to discuss God with someone who doesn't believe in HIM! Moving on!
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Scootle
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« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2010, 02:54:00 PM »


or forum.aynrandworship     or   forum.darwinism.com

Nahhh, most Darwinists don't want to bone goats.
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
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« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2010, 02:57:05 PM »

Nahhh, most Darwinists don't want to bone goats.


That was just a very odd thing to even mention in any thread anywhere, IMO!
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mystic
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« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2010, 02:59:56 PM »

I give up. There is nothing in it for me to reason with people that simply cannot be reasoned with.

For anyone else with an active mind, everything I wrote is all you should need to understand what I wanted to say.

I have work to do.
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citizenx
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« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2010, 03:02:45 PM »

mystic,

On top of everything else, a "quitter"!

That's OK, I'm gonna stay and defend the statement that "God is just" (which implies a standard of "justice" independent of God).
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Scootle
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« Reply #75 on: December 27, 2010, 03:05:12 PM »

I give up. There is nothing in it for me to reason with people that simply cannot be reasoned with.

For anyone else with an active mind, everything I wrote is all you should need to understand what I wanted to say.

I have work to do.


'Reason' (and 'Rational')  are words that atheists/materialists/darwinists/secularists/humanists/rationalists/skeptics etc like to throw around alot like some kind of religious buzzword/mantra.

What you call 'reason' and 'rational' is really just anything that supports your world view. It's circular logic. Circular logic is flawed logic, it therefore contradicts reason and is thus irrational. So there's nothing 'rational' about your views at all.
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The truth will set you free
From global tyranny
Wake up American slobs
9/11 was an inside job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntBg2qwk_M&fmt=35

Century of Manipulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mujq-C1UAw0

... Here's Tom with the weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CCIcjIngLA
mystic
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« Reply #76 on: December 27, 2010, 03:07:42 PM »

No, this entire thread is not about rational debate anymore.

You've hijacked the topics, take things out of context, reduce sentences into soundbites, and now there are people simply attacking me personally. It's not about the arguments anymore. I mean accusing me of working for the globalists... like really. No evidence at all, but you guys just say it anyway. Like wow.

I can spend hours defending and debating, but I'm done. It's not worth it. Let me say it's just not in my rational self interest anymore.

Good day.
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Dig
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« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2010, 03:16:35 PM »

I give up. There is nothing in it for me to reason with people that simply cannot be reasoned with.

For anyone else with an active mind, everything I wrote is all you should need to understand what I wanted to say.

I have work to do.

yeah, I would leave too. especially when the whole Dawkins delusion is being exposed before our very eyes.

Nice little "holier than thou" segway.
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2010, 03:28:00 PM »

It's a shame this turned out like this because no matter what you believe, this new member laid out a worthy opinion piece and debated it honestly and maturely, and I suspect he/she didn't arrive at his/her viewpoint on a whim.

You'll note, too, that he/she was good enough to post it in the right section: philosophy.
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"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dig
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« Reply #79 on: December 27, 2010, 03:29:36 PM »

Let's just review a few threads that already expose similar nonsense and how it fits with the globalist agenda. Please play close attention to cybernetics, transhumanism, and the idea of selflessness...



Ben Stein's Expelled - The American Holocaust Endgame by Eugenecists
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=35931.0

Cyberneticist J.D. Bernal's essay from 1929 is the NWO's blueprint for today
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=195218.0

TRON LEGACY: Ending the Open Society to make way for TRANSHUMANISM
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=196156.0

Cybernetics Agenda
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?board=503.0

TSA/DHS/IP6/NRO/WTO/Internet2 must comply with the "Self-Organizing" principals
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=195998.0

The ENTIRE PLANET is being turned into an AUTONOMOUS ASSASSINATION GRID
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=176293.0

CIA implanted electrodes in brains of unsuspecting soldiers
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=193619.0

Developing Cybernetic dictatorship based on Nazi, Soviet & Stasi BETA-TESTS
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=191076.0

Zeitgeist/Venus Project's "Cybernetic" Solution Exposed and Heavily Critiqued
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=185662.0

And some practical issues regarding the scientific technocracy's attempt to deny god given inalienable human rights:

**Facebook: User Profile link to proximity RFID to create real time Stasi Intel
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=196394.0

FCC SCAM: 3 Muppets do not have the power to burn the 1st Amendment
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=195802.0

Death Panels to Begin Genocidal Murder of Useless Eaters on 1/1/11
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=196408.0

IBM wishes to transform humans into "walking sensors"
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=196216.0

Robots To Either Rescue Wounded On Battlefield or Eat Them for More Fuel
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=196083.0
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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
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