Every Responsible Citizen Should be Armed **Powerful and Chilling**

[ELIJAH STAPP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5n7inTI1dc

[DireWolf]

Hell yes! That is the only attitude to have, period!

[cold fusion]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5n7inTI1dc

"The overwhelming majority of the time, we (the police) were too late."

I am not interested in having the police fill out the paper work after it is too late. Fear, backed up by lethal force if necessary, is the only reliable deterrent. I have had a concealed carry permit for 30 years. I don't know how many guns I own, but I know how to use them. I do not always carry, but 99% of the time I can access a lethal weapon in 30 seconds or less. Anyone who knows me knows that it would be foolhardy to try to harm me or my family. No one can EVER be certain that I am unarmed.

I would strongly encourage everyone to obtain some kind of legal, lethal protection as soon as possible, and get whatever training is necessary to use it safely and competently. (Practice can be fun.) The best deterrent is the fear of the unknown in the mind of the criminal.

[Kilika]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5n7inTI1dc

"The overwhelming majority of the time, we (the police) were too late."

I am not interested in having the police fill out the paper work after it is too late. Fear, backed up by lethal force if necessary, is the only reliable deterrent. I have had a concealed carry permit for 30 years. I don't know how many guns I own, but I know how to use them. I do not always carry, but 99% of the time I can access a lethal weapon in 30 seconds or less. Anyone who knows me knows that it would be foolhardy to try to harm me or my family. No one can EVER be certain that I am unarmed.

I would strongly encourage everyone to obtain some kind of legal, lethal protection as soon as possible, and get whatever training is necessary to use it safely and competently. (Practice can be fun.) The best deterrent is the fear of the unknown in the mind of the criminal.

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

[ELIJAH STAPP]

http://netnemesis.org/misc/UK%20Marie%20Claire%20July%202010%20-%20Girls%20With%20Guns%20by%20Andreina%20Cordani.pdf

[Freeski]

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

So what would you do if a crazed man burst into your home and rushed you or your family?

[redeux]

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

... you have lost your flipping mind....

[pac522]

... you have lost your flipping mind....

Yes he has.


Those who trust God work for a living, knowing that 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." For a man not to work, yet expect to eat because he was "trusting God" would actually be to defy God.

King David wrote in Psalm 46:1 that God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. This did not conflict with praising the God "Who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle" (Psalm 144:1).

The doctrine of Scripture is that we prepare and work, but we trust the outcome to God.

Those who trust God should also make adequate provision for their own defense even as we are instructed in the passages cited above. For a man to refuse to provide adequately for his and his family's defense would be to defy God.

There is an additional concern to taking the position that "I don't need to arm myself. God will protect me."

At one point, when Satan was tempting Jesus in the wilderness, he challenged Jesus to throw himself off the top of the temple. Satan reasoned that God's angels would protect him. Jesus responded: "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God'" (Matthew 4:7).

It may seem pious to say that one is trusting in God for protection, and we all must, but it is tempting God if we do not take the measures that He has laid out for us in the Bible.

Also...

Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, "is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Private vengeance means one would stalk down a criminal after one's life is no longer in danger as opposed to defending oneself during an attack. It is this very point that has been confused by Christian pacifists who would take the passage in the Sermon on the Mount about turning the other cheek (which prohibits private vengeance) into a command to falter before the wicked.

Let us consider also that the Sixth Commandment tells us "Thou shall not murder." In the chapters following, God gave to Moses many of the situations which require a death penalty. God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life. Consider also that the civil magistrate is to be a terror to those who practice evil. This passage does not in any way imply that the role of law enforcement is to prevent crimes or to protect individuals from criminals. The magistrate is a minister to serve as "an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Romans 13:4).

This point is reflected in the legal doctrine of the United States. Repeatedly, courts have held that the government has no responsibility to provide individual security. One case (Bowers v. DeVito) put it this way: "there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered."

And...

We must also consider what Christ told his disciples in his last hours with them: "...But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36). Keep in mind that the sword was the finest offensive weapon available to an individual soldier -- the equivalent then of a military rifle today.

The Christian pacifist will likely object at this point that only a few hours later, Christ rebuked Peter who used a sword to cut off the ear of Malchus, a servant of the high priest in the company of a detachment of troops. Let us read what Christ said to Peter in Matthew 26:52-54:

Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?

In the companion passage in John 18, Jesus tells Peter to put his sword away and told him that He had to drink the cup that His Father had given Him. It was not the first time that Christ had to explain to the disciples why He had come to earth. To fulfill the Scriptures, the Son of God had to die for the sin of man since man was incapable of paying for his own sin apart from going to hell. Christ could have saved His life, but then believers would have lost their lives forever in hell. These things only became clear to the disciples after Christ had died and been raised from the dead and the Spirit had come into the world at Pentecost (see John 14:26).

While Christ told Peter to "put your sword in its place" He clearly did not say get rid of it forever. That would have contradicted what he had told the disciples only hours before. Peter's sword was to protect his own mortal life from danger. His sword was not needed to protect the Creator of the universe and the King of kings.

Years after Pentecost, Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:. This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property. Likewise it would be absurd not to take, if necessary, the life of a night-time thief to protect the members of the family (Exodus 22:2-3).

[MonkeyPuppet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5n7inTI1dc

Our concealed carry instructor played this as part of his class... very effective at covering the "why" part of the equation.

[redeux]

Yes he has.


Those who trust God work for a living, knowing that 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." For a man not to work, yet expect to eat because he was "trusting God" would actually be to defy God.

King David wrote in Psalm 46:1 that God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. This did not conflict with praising the God "Who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle" (Psalm 144:1).

The doctrine of Scripture is that we prepare and work, but we trust the outcome to God.

Those who trust God should also make adequate provision for their own defense even as we are instructed in the passages cited above. For a man to refuse to provide adequately for his and his family's defense would be to defy God.

There is an additional concern to taking the position that "I don't need to arm myself. God will protect me."

At one point, when Satan was tempting Jesus in the wilderness, he challenged Jesus to throw himself off the top of the temple. Satan reasoned that God's angels would protect him. Jesus responded: "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God'" (Matthew 4:7).

It may seem pious to say that one is trusting in God for protection, and we all must, but it is tempting God if we do not take the measures that He has laid out for us in the Bible.

Also...

Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, "is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Private vengeance means one would stalk down a criminal after one's life is no longer in danger as opposed to defending oneself during an attack. It is this very point that has been confused by Christian pacifists who would take the passage in the Sermon on the Mount about turning the other cheek (which prohibits private vengeance) into a command to falter before the wicked.

Let us consider also that the Sixth Commandment tells us "Thou shall not murder." In the chapters following, God gave to Moses many of the situations which require a death penalty. God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life. Consider also that the civil magistrate is to be a terror to those who practice evil. This passage does not in any way imply that the role of law enforcement is to prevent crimes or to protect individuals from criminals. The magistrate is a minister to serve as "an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Romans 13:4).

This point is reflected in the legal doctrine of the United States. Repeatedly, courts have held that the government has no responsibility to provide individual security. One case (Bowers v. DeVito) put it this way: "there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered."

And...

We must also consider what Christ told his disciples in his last hours with them: "...But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36). Keep in mind that the sword was the finest offensive weapon available to an individual soldier -- the equivalent then of a military rifle today.

The Christian pacifist will likely object at this point that only a few hours later, Christ rebuked Peter who used a sword to cut off the ear of Malchus, a servant of the high priest in the company of a detachment of troops. Let us read what Christ said to Peter in Matthew 26:52-54:

Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?

In the companion passage in John 18, Jesus tells Peter to put his sword away and told him that He had to drink the cup that His Father had given Him. It was not the first time that Christ had to explain to the disciples why He had come to earth. To fulfill the Scriptures, the Son of God had to die for the sin of man since man was incapable of paying for his own sin apart from going to hell. Christ could have saved His life, but then believers would have lost their lives forever in hell. These things only became clear to the disciples after Christ had died and been raised from the dead and the Spirit had come into the world at Pentecost (see John 14:26).

While Christ told Peter to "put your sword in its place" He clearly did not say get rid of it forever. That would have contradicted what he had told the disciples only hours before. Peter's sword was to protect his own mortal life from danger. His sword was not needed to protect the Creator of the universe and the King of kings.

Years after Pentecost, Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:. This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property. Likewise it would be absurd not to take, if necessary, the life of a night-time thief to protect the members of the family (Exodus 22:2-3).

excellent post

[s3d1t0r]

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

LeftyLeo, I am able to objectively see why you would see things this way, it is indeed your choice to make.

However, with that said, God helps those who help themselves.

I for one am quite comfortable with my understanding of God while sitting next to my 1911 Colt .45 and my backup pistol and my backup swords.  All day everyday.

[Damascus]

Luke 22:36 Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.   Hey Jesus can I buy more than one, if I have a few extra cloaks laying around?

[citizenx]

It is everone's right in America to purchase, own and operate weapons (arms).  Actually, guns are never specified and no weapon or arm is necessarily excluded.

Is it immoral or irresponsible not to do so?  Not necessarily.  I don't necessarily share Lefty's religious p.o.v., but he is entitled (under the first amendment!) to his opinion and the freedom to express it.

It is a personal choice.  We have already had enough of people stripping freedom from others in the name of "freedom".  Let us not do the same.

A Swiss or an Israeli must possess a weapon.  The one hardly needs it, for the other it may hardly be enough.

An American should have the right to one and the freedom to own it or not to.

But people will preach on, I suppose.

[Damascus]

Good thing we are a republic right? We are protected from the passivist that would strip us from our rights in order to make themselves feel better. It is good to be a well armed sheep.   As a well armed sheep I refuse to be hunted by wolves or herded by sheepdogs.

[Kilika]

Yes he has.


Those who trust God work for a living, knowing that 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." For a man not to work, yet expect to eat because he was "trusting God" would actually be to defy God.

King David wrote in Psalm 46:1 that God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. This did not conflict with praising the God "Who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle" (Psalm 144:1).

The doctrine of Scripture is that we prepare and work, but we trust the outcome to God.

Those who trust God should also make adequate provision for their own defense even as we are instructed in the passages cited above. For a man to refuse to provide adequately for his and his family's defense would be to defy God.

There is an additional concern to taking the position that "I don't need to arm myself. God will protect me."

At one point, when Satan was tempting Jesus in the wilderness, he challenged Jesus to throw himself off the top of the temple. Satan reasoned that God's angels would protect him. Jesus responded: "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God'" (Matthew 4:7).

It may seem pious to say that one is trusting in God for protection, and we all must, but it is tempting God if we do not take the measures that He has laid out for us in the Bible.

Also...

Resisting an attack is not to be confused with taking vengeance which is the exclusive domain of God (Romans 12:19). This has been delegated to the civil magistrate, who, as we read in Romans 13:4, "is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."

Private vengeance means one would stalk down a criminal after one's life is no longer in danger as opposed to defending oneself during an attack. It is this very point that has been confused by Christian pacifists who would take the passage in the Sermon on the Mount about turning the other cheek (which prohibits private vengeance) into a command to falter before the wicked.

Let us consider also that the Sixth Commandment tells us "Thou shall not murder." In the chapters following, God gave to Moses many of the situations which require a death penalty. God clearly has not told us never to kill. He has told us not to murder, which means we are not to take an innocent life. Consider also that the civil magistrate is to be a terror to those who practice evil. This passage does not in any way imply that the role of law enforcement is to prevent crimes or to protect individuals from criminals. The magistrate is a minister to serve as "an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil" (Romans 13:4).

This point is reflected in the legal doctrine of the United States. Repeatedly, courts have held that the government has no responsibility to provide individual security. One case (Bowers v. DeVito) put it this way: "there is no constitutional right to be protected by the state against being murdered."

And...

We must also consider what Christ told his disciples in his last hours with them: "...But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36). Keep in mind that the sword was the finest offensive weapon available to an individual soldier -- the equivalent then of a military rifle today.

The Christian pacifist will likely object at this point that only a few hours later, Christ rebuked Peter who used a sword to cut off the ear of Malchus, a servant of the high priest in the company of a detachment of troops. Let us read what Christ said to Peter in Matthew 26:52-54:

Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?

In the companion passage in John 18, Jesus tells Peter to put his sword away and told him that He had to drink the cup that His Father had given Him. It was not the first time that Christ had to explain to the disciples why He had come to earth. To fulfill the Scriptures, the Son of God had to die for the sin of man since man was incapable of paying for his own sin apart from going to hell. Christ could have saved His life, but then believers would have lost their lives forever in hell. These things only became clear to the disciples after Christ had died and been raised from the dead and the Spirit had come into the world at Pentecost (see John 14:26).

While Christ told Peter to "put your sword in its place" He clearly did not say get rid of it forever. That would have contradicted what he had told the disciples only hours before. Peter's sword was to protect his own mortal life from danger. His sword was not needed to protect the Creator of the universe and the King of kings.

Years after Pentecost, Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:. This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property. Likewise it would be absurd not to take, if necessary, the life of a night-time thief to protect the members of the family (Exodus 22:2-3).

Yes, I have lost my carnal mind. Thank you Jesus.


"Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJB)


And that argument I've heard before. Same old tired story of not having faith in God to deliver you and your household from evil.

What does the prayer say that Jesus said to pray? "deliver us from evil..."

The question ultimately is what do you put your trust in. I trust Jesus to hear my prayer that He will deliver me from evil as promised. If one doesn't believe Jesus can deliver you and yours, then you might need to go buy a gun because your bound by the law of eye for an eye.

And typical you mention out of context not taking care of your own house, but what you fail to realize is that God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. That verse is talking about providing for the spiritual instruction of those of your house. You know, telling them the truth about the bible as God shows you from scripture.

The worldly organized church Romans 13 crowd are the types that say you need guns and survival supplies. Jesus said to take no thought for the morrow now didn't He?


"Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?" Matthew 6:25 (KJB)


Ever wonder why scripture says this...


"In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me." Psalm 56:11 (KJB)


So I ask, why would a person carry a firearm? I say fear. Fear of what man might do to you or others. And that is not of faith no matter how you try to paint it.


"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:18 (KJB)


So what delivers you from evil exactly? And why have physical weapon in a war that is spiritual?


27   My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 
28   And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. 
29   My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. 
30   I and [my] Father are one. 
John 10:27-30 (KJB)


And finally, I ask how can one love their enemy by returning fire? That's rendering evil for evil.


43   Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 
44   But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 
45   That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 
46   For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 
47   And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? 
48   Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. 
Matthew 5:43-48 (KJB)


And to take it to the very basics...


"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39 (KJB)

However, with that said, God helps those who help themselves.

Now that is the most common misused statement that isn't in the bible. It's a statement born of works and not faith. If one is to help themselves, then explain this...


8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 
9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8,9 (KJB)


The only thing you can do is follow His Word in faith...


"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Romans 1:17 (KJB)


And I offer this...


"Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." John 18:36 (KJB)

[epinlasvegas]

Lefty, Just curious do you subscribe to the doctrine of man "pre-tribulation rapture"? if so that would explain the lay down and die attitude.But to each his own

[pac522]

The only thing you can do is follow His Word in faith...

There are two schools of thought here.

One being, faith means that you ignore all else and believe God will open the heavens swoop down and save you or...

the other meaning, to have faith in the knowledge and tools God has given you and the ability and wisdom to know how to use them.

I am from the latter.

[Damascus]

Ok WTF did this very simple topic on the right to self defense turn into a religious debate? I leave you fundamentalist wackos alone mostly, why invade everyone else's topics, you were given your own board even.

[pac522]

Ok WTF did this very simple topic on the right to self defense turn into a religious debate? I leave you fundamentalist wackos alone mostly, why invade everyone else's topics, you were given your own board even.

Taking someone's life, even in self defense is a moral issue. For some people it's hard to disconnect moral issues from religion.

[Kilika]

Ok WTF did this very simple topic on the right to self defense turn into a religious debate? I leave you fundamentalist wackos alone mostly, why invade everyone else's topics, you were given your own board even.

So then I guess people who have a religious belief should just shut up and go sit in a corner because you don't agree? Ain't going to happen! It's crappy attitudes of the unbelieving that motivates believers to share the truth with people, not withhold it.

To stroke your ego, I'll admit that if I were not Christian, I'd be just as zealous about defending the right to bear arms and the whole Constitution. As far as a secular government goes, the US has the best design to date. I believe that men cannot serve God and mammon, so I chose God. Get over it.

If you follow the Constitution, you have a right to bear arms, and considering this evil world, you might want to load for bear. But seeing I serve God, I choose to follow the bible over the Constitution, and the bible says to love your enemies, and to turn the other cheek, not reload.

Noone "invaded" anything. Consider it a counter-point to the thread title. You don't want a one-sided debate now do you? By your comment it sounds like that's exactly what you want, with only your position posted. Typical.

Seriously, if I were to just post a comment that people shouldn't take up arms in defense, after all the name-calling, people would still want to know what in the world led me to take that position. It's called disclosure Sparky!

By the way, unbelievers were given their own board too, so how about you go post over there? By the way, that board is as dead as the unbelieving are. I'll leave it up to your to figure out why.

[Damascus]

Ok I will not be bated by your as you are the one with an ego! Notice I didn't propose any sociological/psychological reasons for morality in the need for self defense or go into the history of morality. I could provide some philosophical reason for such IE: The right of self aware entities to defend themselves from harm. But once again the religious fundamentalist F**ktards will overwhelm the arguments like they always do because the fluoride in the water dose its job. From now on I will not waist my time fighting stupid people, I just wish you would respect others quit injecting into secular arguments. In the end I guess it is to just much to ask.

[Kilika]

But once again the religious fundamentalist F**ktards will overwhelm the arguments like they always do because the fluoride in the water dose its job...I will not waist my time fighting stupid people

Baited? That's funny. What are you afraid of, being converted and your sins be forgiven? How about just admit your wrong by trying to stifle an opposing view and move on?

So all Christians are stupid people? That right there speaks volumes of your intellect and maturity. The globalists of the NWO think the exact same thing as you do. Hmm. So I guess you think that Christians are just useless eaters too?

Think for a second and dumped the attitude and hate. What sense does it make to chastize a fellow resistor to the NWO because they bring to the fight a different weapon than you? Your ignorance has eaten you up.

Overwhelm? Yep, you can count on it, and every knee WILL bow to Jesus Christ in the end, including you, and in the end you'll beg for forgiveness for your attitude towards those that only want good things for you, regardless of your hateful attitude, and have actually been desiring that by sharing the truth, it will save your life.

We are not going away and we will not be silent. Whether you believe it or not, we are fighting the same enemy, though it's obvious we aren't on the same side. I expect people like you will be the ones who go after all the Christians, and any other religious group that doesn't conform to your ways.

People spit in Jesus' face too when He told them the truth because they refused to hear it thinking they had it all figured out. You keep it up, and you'll meet the same end they did. I bet my life on it.

Keep mocking God at your own risk, because it is God that you'll have to answer to, not us followers. You've been warned.


"[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31 (KJB)


38   And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 
39   But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Act 5:38,39 (KJB)

[MonkeyPuppet]

I take no issue with anyone's religious views or whether they use those views as a foundation for their actions (save for those who think killing others will bring them closer to their god).  However, I am a skeptic (not necessarily a "unbeliever") so when/if God himself in whatever form He chooses descends from the Heavens to say hello or whatever He might do (though I might need to see some credentials), I'll bow down at His request.

In the meantime, any man who attempts to do harm to me, my family, my friends, or even perfect strangers, will have to deal with me and whatever level of force I deem necessary to stop the attack.  If that's help dealing with their problems which lead to the conflict, so be it.  If that is an ol' fashioned ass-kicking, so be it.  If that's lead poisoning, so be it.

It is my personal belief that it is the duty of all those able to defend themselves and others against those with intent to do harm.  The gun is the great equalizer, though it is not the first and only means... but when deployed it is always the last.

"God created all men equal... and Colt keeps it that way!"

[redeux]

If anyone tries to seriously harm my loved ones or myself I will dispatch them into the nether regions with all malice, and I will know in my heart that I am right before the creator of the Universe.....

[Freeski]

I take no issue with anyone's religious views or whether they use those views as a foundation for their actions (save for those who think killing others will bring them closer to their god).  However, I am a skeptic (not necessarily a "unbeliever") so when/if God himself in whatever form He chooses descends from the Heavens to say hello or whatever He might do (though I might need to see some credentials), I'll bow down at His request.

In the meantime, any man who attempts to do harm to me, my family, my friends, or even perfect strangers, will have to deal with me and whatever level of force I deem necessary to stop the attack.  If that's help dealing with their problems which lead to the conflict, so be it.  If that is an ol' fashioned ass-kicking, so be it.  If that's lead poisoning, so be it.

It is my personal belief that it is the duty of all those able to defend themselves and others against those with intent to do harm.  The gun is the great equalizer, though it is not the first and only means... but when deployed it is always the last.

"God created all men equal... and Colt keeps it that way!"

Put that on a plaque! Well said. The Second is meant to protect the First.

[chris jones]

 Hi Lefty. With all due respect for your religion and faith I have to say  defense is not a crime against God.
          If this were so I would be damed to hell in a handbasket for all eternity. If the God I pray to condemns me for protecting innocents, family, children, then my friend it is written I am heading for the fire and brimstone.

But,,,Please know I respect your faith.

[Kilika]

Hi Lefty. With all due respect for your religion and faith I have to say  defense is not a crime against God.
          If this were so I would be damed to hell in a handbasket for all eternity. If the God I pray to condemns me for protecting innocents, family, children, then my friend it is written I am heading for the fire and brimstone.

But,,,Please know I respect your faith.

Thanks for saying so. Each has to decide what it is that they believe, and how they may handle a given situation. Ultimately, people only answer to their maker. I'm just one with an opinon and recommendation.

[Nailer]

God gave me the ability to protect myself and my family and if need be I shall do so  and the aggressors body will have to be removed with a forklift as the amount of lead he recieves will make him slightly obese..LOL

[DireWolf]

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

If you chose to not protect the precious gift you were given ( life ) the you spit in the face of it's giver. Take the time to read the original texts in their original language and you will find how mislead the majority has been.

Yes love those who do you wrong but do not encourage them to do so by not defending what is rightfully yours. You were not called to be a sacrifice for the entire world, Jesus was, and to lay down your life ( not sacrificing yourself to save another ) so as to be morally righteous is to take a wrong done and try to explain that it by saying it justifies the end results. Inane in and of it's self.

No one has the right to do you wrong and you have the responsibility to others to see it does not happen to anyone else if at all possible. You can not accomplish this by throwing away your life because of some Holier than thou attitude.

Remember you do not have the right to ask others to do for you that which you refuse to do for yourself. This is true in all aspects of life, and one who does is a hypocrite. What did Jesus say about hypocrites?

You need to read the New Testament where Jesus told his disciples to sell a cloak and buy a sword this wasn't metaphorically it was for their protection. Peter did not cut off an ear with a metaphor, did he?

[Kilika]

If you chose to not protect the precious gift you were given ( life ) the you spit in the face of it's giver. Take the time to read the original texts in their original language and you will find how mislead the majority has been.

Yes love those who do you wrong but do not encourage them to do so by not defending what is rightfully yours. You were not called to be a sacrifice for the entire world, Jesus was, and to lay down your life ( not sacrificing yourself to save another ) so as to be morally righteous is to take a wrong done and try to explain that it by saying it justifies the end results. Inane in and of it's self.

No one has the right to do you wrong and you have the responsibility to others to see it does not happen to anyone else if at all possible. You can not accomplish this by throwing away your life because of some Holier than thou attitude.

Remember you do not have the right to ask others to do for you that which you refuse to do for yourself. This is true in all aspects of life, and one who does is a hypocrite. What did Jesus say about hypocrites?

You need to read the New Testament where Jesus told his disciples to sell a cloak and buy a sword this wasn't metaphorically it was for their protection. Peter did not cut off an ear with a metaphor, did he?

Well, I appreciate you giving your side, but quite frankly, that's just not scriptural. And for the record, I've been reading the whole bible for over 20 years. And I also don't remember you posting anything in any of the Christian threads. Where have you been with you insight? I have no idea who you are, or what understanding you have other than what you just posted, and I see no scripture at all in your post to back what you claim.

Take the time to read the original texts in their original language

Uh, care to say where you got access to the original autographs? Especially since they haven't existed for centuries. I mean no disrespect, but your talking out of ignorance. The original texts don't exist anymore.

You were not called to be a sacrifice for the entire world, Jesus was

Indeed, Jesus is the sacrifice for the world, not me or any other man. But see, I have never claimed to be a sacrifice for anyone. Your putting words that aren't there. Nice try though. But since you mention it...


"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service." Romans 12:1 (KJB)


Hmm, now what were you saying about sacrifice? Maybe it is you that might want to re-read the New Testament, and while your there the Old Testament too.

Remember you do not have the right to ask others to do for you that which you refuse to do for yourself. This is true in all aspects of life, and one who does is a hypocrite. What did Jesus say about hypocrites?

Who says I ask anybody to do any thing for me? Now your just rambling. Hypocrite? Well, I've been called worse. Thank you Jesus.

Jesus told his disciples to sell a cloak and buy a sword this wasn't metaphorically it was for their protection.

That He did...

"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 21:36 (KJB)

But I ask you this, where in scripture does it say that the sword is for protection? Show me. I ask because there are other scrioptures too, and they seem to contradict what you claim...


"And they said, Lord, behold, here [are] two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough." Luke 22:38 (KJB)


So I ask you, why did Jesus tell them two swords were enough? Why was it enough? Don't you think it curious, seeing that there were at least 12 of them? Two swords among twelve? Seeing there were such a devisive group according to the Jews and the Romans, one might think that they encountered alot of opposition, which they did, and many of them were murdered by the Romans and others. So much for swords for self defense! But I'll take it further...


"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39 (KJB)


Well now, that seems to be just the opposite of what your claiming. If a person strikes you with a sword, what part of that verse says to strike back with your own sword?


"See that none render evil for evil unto any [man]; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all [men]." 1 Thessalonians 5:15 (KJB)


Hmm, now that's a problem for you too. Care to offer an explanation? By the way, all of that is the New Testament, and some of it is the red letter part! Nothing personal, but I'll stick with what the Holy Ghost has taught me.


"But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26 (KJB)

Here's one from the Old Testament...


"In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me." Psalm 56:4 (KJB)

by not defending what is rightfully yours.

What is rightfully mine? Really? What does the scripture say? "How readest thou?"


"Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens [is] the LORD'S thy God, the earth [also], with all that therein [is]." Deuteronomy 10:14 (KJB)


"[[A Psalm of David.]] The earth [is] the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein." Psalm 24:1 (KJB)


"For the earth [is] the Lord's, and the fulness thereof." 1 Corinthians 10:26 (KJB)


So it seems I'm not the only one that needs to search the scriptures...


"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39 (KJB)

[DireWolf]

I guess all we can do is to agree to disagree and see what happens.

[Kilika]

I guess all we can do is to agree to disagree and see what happens.

That's an option. So that's all you got? Instead of any counter, you just say you disagree and move on? Fair enough. Peace is far better than contentions.

[JT Coyoté]

I did. His name is Jesus Christ. For the unbelieving I suggest they do the same. Personally, I cannot see how a Christian can carry a weapon of any type for "self defense". That defeats the whole purpose of faith and not fearing what man can do. So where is the faith? In that 9mm in the small of your back or in the Holy Ghost? Jesus says to love your enemies, not return fire!

Lefty,

If you truly love your enemy, would you encourage him to commit upon his soul the act of wanton murder upon the innocent and the unarmed as you seem to imply here?

A stand off, (i.e., a truce, or acquisition of mutual respect,) can only occur when all ere equally armed in all aspects... I do not think Jesus was suggesting "suicide by thine enemies"... which will be the result if folks disarm...

Oldyoti

Luke 22:36: Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse,
let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword,
let him sell his garment, and buy one".
--Jesus to his disciples

[Kilika]

Lefty,

If you truly love your enemy, would you encourage him to commit upon his soul the act of wanton murder upon the innocent and the unarmed as you seem to imply here?

A stand off, (i.e., a truce, or acquisition of mutual respect,) can only occur when all ere equally armed in all aspects... I do not think Jesus was suggesting "suicide by thine enemies"... which will be the result if folks disarm...

Oldyoti

Luke 22:36: Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse,
let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword,
let him sell his garment, and buy one".
--Jesus to his disciples

This coming from a antique firearms restorer. I expect nothing less from you, seeing you have a vested interest in the use of firearms.

Your initial question is silly at best. Your making some serious assumptions by saying that, and at the same time denying the power of God to handle the situation for His sons, of which I am one, and anybody else that is born-again. Your assuming that what I may be given to say will have no effect on the enemy standing before me. I'm here to tell you I been there and done that, and by the grace of God I'm still alive and unhurt. Don't go saying things you know nothing of.

I do not think Jesus was suggesting "suicide by thine enemies"... which will be the result if folks disarm...

Well, that clearly shows where your faith isn't! I suppose you have more faith in gun powder than Jesus. Good luck with that.

[citizenx]

In fairness, JT, he did tell his supporter to put down his sword when he was arrested.  Lefty's interpretation of scriptures ain't entirely out in left field.


Bottom line, lefty is entitled to his opinion and his right NOT to bear arms.

The rest of us are entitled to bear arms.

IMO if we all agree on those two basic points, there's really no significant disagreement.

No reason to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

[Kilika]

In fairness, JT, he did tell his supporter to put down his sword when he was arrested.  Lefty's interpretation of scriptures ain't entirely out in left field.


Bottom line, lefty is entitled to his opinion and his right NOT to bear arms.

The rest of us are entitled to bear arms.

IMO if we all agree on those two basic points, there's really no significant disagreement.

No reason to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

Indeed!

I'm just one voice with the desire to share what I believe is the truth. I've stated multiple times that I believe the Constitution is the best out there, as far as secular governments go, and part of that is the right to bear arms, or not. And I'll be one of the first to say it's wrong for people to be denied the right given under the Constitution, if living under the Constitution is what one chooses to do.

Jesus also said to not render evil for evil. I thought I made that very clear. I guess some truly are blind.

[Freeski]

In fairness, JT, he did tell his supporter to put down his sword when he was arrested.  Lefty's interpretation of scriptures ain't entirely out in left field.


Bottom line, lefty is entitled to his opinion and his right NOT to bear arms.

The rest of us are entitled to bear arms.

IMO if we all agree on those two basic points, there's really no significant disagreement.

No reason to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

Well said!

But this is also curious: "suicide by thine enemies". (no self defense?)

[jwest]

In a northern part of Alaska - wolves are attacking citizens - I think so far a school teacher and a young child have been killed.  The wolves are starving and attacking people.
People are carrying for obvious reasons - sometimes the wolves are real and tangible, sometimes they hide.

[citizenx]

Freeski,

If somebody really sees the Crucifixion as "suicide by (Roman) cop", I think they are missing part of the story.

What with Christmas coming up and all...

And, jwest, I don't think there's anything in the bible against defending yourself from wolves.  Good point.

[Freeski]

Freeski,

If somebody really sees the Crucifixion as "suicide by (Roman) cop", I think they are missing part of the story.

What with Christmas coming up and all...

And, jwest, I don't think there's anything in the bible against defending yourself from wolves.  Good point.

I wasn't even thinking about Christmas or the Crucifixion, but now that you mention it, it's an interesting thought! When I quoted JT, "suicide by thine enemies", I mean the muggers and rapists. When they come at you, what do you do? Cower and huddle and hope it doesn't hurt too much, or that God will intervene, or do you kick the knees out of your attacker? Your wife and children are behind you.