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Author Topic: Xbox & Kinect spying: "You should not expect any level of privacy"  (Read 11355 times)
Wintermute
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« on: December 08, 2010, 11:59:19 PM »

As you may have expected, Xbox Live claims the people have no rights and M$ has full rights.  Here's some of the more outrageous statements from their terms of service:
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In particular, we may access or disclose information about you, including the content of your communications,

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we may collect certain information about Service performance, your Authorized Device, and your Service and Authorized Device use.  We may automatically upload this information from your Authorized Device.
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In the event you are using the console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console
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You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service.
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We do not routinely monitor your use of the communication features of the Service.  However, to the maximum extent permitted by law, we may monitor your communications and may disclose information about you as set forth in this Section
 9.

To add insult to injury, they have a long list of things we are not allowed to do with Xbox, which includes...

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View, intercept, or attempt to intercept private communications not intended for you;

^ So it's fine for them to spy on us, but it's a crime if we spy right back.
Full terms of service available here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/livetou

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usefulidiot,uselesseater
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2010, 12:31:44 AM »

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In the event you are using the console with Kinect, we may also collect data about the way in which you interact with the console

Perverts beware  Tongue
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2010, 01:37:51 AM »

I'm very unhappy that several of my family members use kinect for their gaming and movie watching experiences. I for one do not wish to participate in their face scanning body and voice recognition decryption program.
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phasma
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2010, 03:43:45 AM »

So, my kid asked me for one of these and i have as yet resisted. Is it reasonable to assume that they can collect ambient conversations from the room then, even if you are not using the thing?

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Wintermute
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2010, 04:11:03 AM »

@phasma - Yes as long as it's switched on it's listening and watching. Here's another chilling quote from Microsoft:

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"...over time that will help us be more targeted about what content choices we present, what advertising we present, how we get better feedback. And data about how many people are in a room when an advertisement is shown, how many people are in a room when a game is being played, how are those people engaged with the game? How are they engaged with a sporting event? Are they standing up? Are they excited? Are they wearing Seahawks jerseys?"

Makes me think of this...

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The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.
From 1984, by George Orwell.
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feeditup
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 04:13:31 AM »

unplug your ps3 as well
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 04:26:36 AM »

dont forget the tv livingroom from Fahrenheit 451, among other things it reminds me of.























sigh...
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Eleven Fifty-Eight
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 04:33:51 AM »

I understand Kinect employs a type of facial recognition too, though I'm not sure how detailed.
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Kilika
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 04:45:39 AM »

Quote
Are they wearing Seahawks jerseys?"

If they can tell what's on your clothing, one must assume they can tell if your wearing any clothing! And if they can tell that kind of detail on a shirt, what kind of detail can they detect if you have no clothes on? Hmm. Indeed, don't expect any privacy, but we all know people tend to get all glassy-eyed with new gadgets.

No question what the mission is of these companies; direct interaction with the customers in their own homes, and then the selling of the info gathered as a result of that interaction.
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 04:57:00 AM »

Microsoft’s $150 Xbox add-on, the Kinect, can use face-recognition technology to log you onto your Xbox Live account. But it’s not trouble-free.

To understand why, you need to know how it works.

Kinect effectively has two cameras: a traditional color video camera, which takes pictures and enables conference chat, and an infrared light sensor that measures depth, position and motion. One needs light, the other doesn’t. Facial recognition uses both.

Yesterday, Gamespot shook up the tech blogosphere a bit with its account of two dark-skinned employees not being automatically recognized to log in to their Xbox accounts. Consumer Reports repeated the experiment and blamed low light for recognition problems.

“Kinect works great with people of all skin tones,” Microsoft said by e-mail. “And just like a camera, optimal lighting is best. Anyone experiencing issues with facial recognition should adjust their lighting settings, as instructed in the Kinect Tuner.”



Faces of Bush and Bin Laden are drawn on the 3-D facial surface of the same person. Credit: Michael Bronstein.



http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/xbox/docs/KinectFS.docx

Neither two-dimensional or three-dimensional facial-recognition technology alone is perfect. Computer scientist and facial-recognition expert Michael Bronstein writes:

    While traditional two-dimensional face recognition methods suffer from sensitivity to external factors, such as illumination, head pose, and are also sensitive to the use of cosmetics, 3D methods appear to be more robust to these factors. Yet, the problem of facial expressions is a major issue in 3D face recognition, since the geometry of the face significantly changes as the result of facial expressions.

So when you’re logging into Xbox Live, turn the lights up bright. Once you’re logged in, adjust lighting level to taste.
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 05:09:12 AM »























airport eye scanners











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eddy64
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 07:03:48 AM »

facial recognition doesnt work with some types of glasses  Grin
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phasma
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 07:13:33 AM »

My OH uses those self check outs i refuse i hate them !

They will eventually do people out of a job !
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BruntFCA2
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 08:48:55 AM »

So, my kid asked me for one of these and i have as yet resisted. Is it reasonable to assume that they can collect ambient conversations from the room then, even if you are not using the thing?



I *was* gonna get one, but on some reflect realized its a stupid product. Do *not* get it for your kid.

Your personal info (via credit card details) is stored at MS on the "xbox Live" servers. This info is linked to your "Avatar", the cute little cartoon persona you create for your profile.

Now this is bad enough, however, if you install Kinect, it has the following features.

  • Mics,
    Video
    Computer software for voice recording and recognition
    Computer software that will "recognize" people to load the correct profile...in other words a biometric system.
Guess where all this data is stored and linked to?.....that cute little "Avatar", the data for which is kept on the Xbox live network server system.

You've got to be a nut job if you want you or your kids to stand in front of those cameras and have function of that data uploaded to MS servers.

Edit: people who think they can fool it, are fooling themselves. If uses your motion, your shape, sounds, face etc. This can be represented as various mathematical functions. It does not need to have 100% facial recognition to be able to profile you. Unless you want to wear a mask, use a voice distorter, and move in funny ways (people can be recognized by how they move), the system will likely be able to extract useful biometric and other data (time of use, frequency etc etc) about you.

If you need to go to such lengths to protect yourself, do you really want this thing in your living room?
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 12:52:55 PM »

not just taking peoples jobs with those self checkouts, we are putting ourselves willingly into a panoptrician that we cannot escape from! there wont be employees, just security barriers, sensors and eye scanners. use your chip card to pay! dont have a credit card'? you must be a criminal!! off to chinese prison factory to make ipads 22 hours a day.
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wvoutlaw2002
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 07:08:10 PM »

I *was* gonna get one, but on some reflect realized its a stupid product. Do *not* get it for your kid.

Your personal info (via credit card details) is stored at MS on the "xbox Live" servers. This info is linked to your "Avatar", the cute little cartoon persona you create for your profile.

Now this is bad enough, however, if you install Kinect, it has the following features.

  • Mics,
    Video
    Computer software for voice recording and recognition
    Computer software that will "recognize" people to load the correct profile...in other words a biometric system.
Guess where all this data is stored and linked to?.....that cute little "Avatar", the data for which is kept on the Xbox live network server system.

You've got to be a nut job if you want you or your kids to stand in front of those cameras and have function of that data uploaded to MS servers.

Edit: people who think they can fool it, are fooling themselves. If uses your motion, your shape, sounds, face etc. This can be represented as various mathematical functions. It does not need to have 100% facial recognition to be able to profile you. Unless you want to wear a mask, use a voice distorter, and move in funny ways (people can be recognized by how they move), the system will likely be able to extract useful biometric and other data (time of use, frequency etc etc) about you.

If you need to go to such lengths to protect yourself, do you really want this thing in your living room?

Oh, and Microsoft will ban you from Xbox Live if you use your user name to promote 9/11 truth or Linux.
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Freeski
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2010, 07:16:22 PM »

not just taking peoples jobs with those self checkouts, we are putting ourselves willingly into a panoptrician that we cannot escape from! there wont be employees, just security barriers, sensors and eye scanners. use your chip card to pay! dont have a credit card'? you must be a criminal!! off to chinese prison factory to make ipads 22 hours a day.

That's exactly our future if we don't fix this soon.
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wvoutlaw2002
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 07:04:06 AM »

Microsoft Corporation Censors 9/11 Dissent
9/11 Blogger
Thursday, November 27, 2008

     “All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.” - Arthur Schopenhauer

Xbox Live is an online multiplayer gaming and digital media delivery service created and operated by Microsoft Corporation. They refer this platform as “the Ultimate Broadband Gaming Experience,” accessible on the Xbox and Xbox 360 consoles. After reaching 10 Million users, I decided to change my GamerTag (GT) to disseminate 9/11 truth to the console gaming world.

About a a month ago, I changed my GT to www911TRUTHorg. Utilizing the headset, every time I entered a new game lobby I spoke to the other users in the “room” about the 9/11 Truth Movement. The responses varied: most people ridiculed or mocked the GT, while the others either commented with approval/praise, or said nothing at all. Either way, BOTH the nay-sayers and fellow truthers listened to what I had to say. In fact, many times the conversation of the game would revolve entirely around 9/11, the Global War on Terror, corporate war profiteering, the destruction of our civil liberties, etc… It was a great method of cyber-activism, until Microsoft caught on!

A week ago, this message popped up as I attempted to login on the Xbox.com website:



Expecting this, I quickly referred to the Terms of Use:
“How You May Not Use the Service.
-use the Service for commercial purposes (except as expressly permitted by us);”

I assumed Microsoft considered this “advertising,” even though 911Truth.org is a non-profit, educational corporation. I then proceeded to change my GT to x911 False Flag, ditching the website alias.

Within 24 hours:



Digging deeper into the Terms of Use, I find:
“- use the Service in a way that harms us or our advertisers, affiliates, resellers, distributors, or vendors , or any customer of ours or our advertisers, affiliates, resellers, distributors, or vendors;”

As well as:
“In addition, your use of the Service is subject to your compliance with the Code of Conduct. You agree that we may also discontinue your access to the Service if you do any of the following while connected to the Service:

-Publish, distribute, or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent, or unlawful content, topic, name, material, file, or information;

Create a Gamertag , avatar or use text in other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate or relate to any of the following: profane words/phrases, topics or content of a sexual nature, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities;”

Sept11FalseFlag was then created. This new GT seemed to be OK with everything for a few days, until this message today, 11/26/08:





When is this censoring going to stop? Are they going to censor everyone?

Other dissenting GamerTags in the XBOX Live online gaming arena include: “ae911truth org” “loosechange911” “WEareCHANGE
GOOGLE 911TRUTH” “Question911” and “Inside Job

Assuming they would prefer me to change my GT back to something more ignorant (thus, acceptable), I decided to respond to this censoring:



Although only a matter of time before it is required for me to change my GT yet again, I’m here to tell Microsoft:

The truth will never be silenced.
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wvoutlaw2002
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 07:09:34 AM »

Linux is a Naughty Word
Submitted by George Walker on September 4, 2007 – 7:43 am

Okay, what happens when you like Linux, and decide to change your Xbox Live gamertag motto to “Linux rules”? Well, Microsoft black flags you, that’s what. According to xbox-scene.com, Linux and Unix prompt the following response:



I can confirm this as I just tried it myself. Also, according to some xbox-scene.com forum-goers, variations on Linux such as “L I N U X” or “L inux” also are banned.

Seriously, Microsoft? You really went there, eh? Wow. Ballsy. I mean, it takes some serious testicular matter to make Linux a naughty word on Xbox Live. No good could possibly come of this. It’s like putting a scorpion in a room full of babies and then not expecting a literal crap-storm of bad publicity.

This is the kind of thing you’d expect from… I don’t know… Sony.

-----------------------------

'Linux' or 'Unix' is Inappropriate Language as LIVE Motto According to Microsoft

>> From riverag.com:
Quote
I love Linux and the XBOX 360, so yesterday I tried to include the word "LINUX" in the motto section on XBOX Live. I was stunned when I got a message saying "Your motto contains inappropriate language. Please try again".

I tried this myself to make sure it wasn't any kinda hoax ... I tried to put just the word 'linux' as motto to my gamertag and indeed ... Microsoft refused it. I also tried 'unix' ... but that didn't pass the Redmond filter either. Seriously, how low can you go MS?



Discuss this news item on our forums: forums.xbox-scene.com
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ekimdrachir
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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2010, 02:00:55 AM »

Theres even more about it today!

http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-12/video-mits-finger-tracking-kinect-hack-amazing-insert-minority-report-reference-here

Video: MIT's Kinect Hack Tracks All Ten Fingers Simultaneously

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