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Author Topic: The false solution: Anarcho Capitalism [A Rockefeller Plan]  (Read 3046 times)
birther truther tenther
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Against all forms of tyranny


« on: November 02, 2010, 02:30:05 PM »

Anybody who uses the "A" symbol, definitely does not support our Constitutional Republican form of GOVERNMENT!



Anarcho-capitalism is where ALL government intervention in the private sector is completely eliminated.  That might sound good to the naive, but it is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS toward the average Joe.  Imagine corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonalds, Monsanto, GE, BP, ExxonMobil, JP Morgan, General Motors, IBM getting to do whatever the f**k they want with NO possibility of accountability.

Building codes, lunch breaks, ergonomics, workplace conditions, environmental regulations, health benefits, etc. ALL get thrown out the window.  Anarcho-capitalism will pave the way for the "Chinese sweatshop" model of today, or the "mining town model" of the 19th Century.  If you think your job sucks now, wait until these mega-corporations get to rape you seven ways to Sunday, and there is nothing you can legally do about it.  You want to quit and find another job!  HA!  good luck, because super-monopolies are advocated under this model.  

You want to live "off the grid"  HA!  Good luck with that too!  With the elimination of property taxes under the anarcho-capitalist model, the globalist corporations will buy up every acre of land to speculate and exploit its resources.  If you already own land, your property values will be reduced to nothing due to all of the pollution and environmental destruction of industry.  All "public lands" will be sold to developers, so fishing, hunting, camping, hiking, etc will be considered "Trespassing".  All roads will be tolled, and protesting on a formerly public sidewalk, will be now be considered "trespassing".

Remember, the US Constitution is an agreement between the GOVERNMENT and the PEOPLE.  Anarcho-capitalism is a "backdoor" to skirt around the Constitution because there is no agreement between natural persons (the People) and artificial persons (the corporations).  Free speech, bearing arms, right to a jury, etc. will violate "policies" of the "private land" owned by the Corporations.

The Rockfellers, Carnegies, Harrimans, Fords, and other industrialists got to be the powerful globalist groups they are today because of anarcho-capitalist type of polices of the late 19th century.  The early 20th century Progressive Movement that Glenn beck demonizes so-much was the "21st Century tea party" of their time.  It was grassroots and they fought for better working conditions.  After the Progressives broke through to the mainstream, they were CO-OPTED by the industrialists (the same way the TEA Party is today). Now progressivism is equated to eugenics, racism, abortion, and feminism, thanks to the globaist foundations steering the movement.

Since a lot of you guys didn't fall for the cashless cybernetic grid with implantable microchip model, the Rothschilds are cooking up a 21st Century feudalism model under a mislabeled "libertarian" or "anarchist" movement.  


The state is the problem???

Last time I checked, all of the globalist think tanks are headed up by the private sector.  Bilderberg, CSIS, CFR, WTO, Trilateral, etc ARE NOT "STATE", they are private.  ANSER Institute for Homeland Security was a PRIVATE organization before DHS was publicly announced by Bush in 2002.  SPLC that scripts the DHS reports is a PRIVATE organization.  Big Pharma are private corporations that pay off the FDA bureaucrats to pass garbage like vioxx and contaminated vaccines.  Big Food pays off the FDA to pass crap like aspartame and GMOs.  The Treasury Department is composed of all JP Morgan, Citibank and Goldman Sachs crooks which are all "private" corporations.  

This NWO system is FASCIST, not communist.  In communism, you have a very powerful, centralized, STATE authority.  We do not have that here!!!  We have "bought and paid for" politicians.  That means the politicians are weak, cowardly and MALLEABLE to the corporations that fund their campaigns.

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“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power”
-Benito Mussolini

So Lew Rockwell and his fellow "anarchists" want to give the NWO corporations total unaccountability in the name of "freedom".  HA HA HA, please guys, don't be fooled.

I support free market with some government intervention at the federal level (i.e. the weights and measures clause in the US Constitution) and "tenth amendment" intervention such as state, county, local laws. (i.e. zoning laws, environmental regulations (not that phony carbon scam, but to reduce genuine pollution and waste dumping), height restrictions, working conditions, etc).

Allowing corporations to have free reign and "anarchy" is beyond naive.  The Rockefellers funded Von Mises for a reason, and that family would thrive under this system and you will be a feudalistic slave working 16 hours a day, which will make just enough money to pay for GMO groceries at the town store.
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Dig
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 02:43:24 PM »

There is supposed to be 100% iron clad regulation on the federal reserve, NGO's, etc. Additionally, the federal government has no authority to regulate states' ability to pursue fraud crimes, pharmaceutical fascist crimes, etc. There are some infiltrators at von mises, this is clear, but the idea that the Anarchy symbol and other 6 degrees of separation means that Lew is some evil infiltrating mastermind is a whole lot of BS.

By their fruits you will know them.
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freedom_commonsense
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 06:04:10 PM »

There is supposed to be 100% iron clad regulation on the federal reserve, NGO's, etc. Additionally, the federal government has no authority to regulate states' ability to pursue fraud crimes, pharmaceutical fascist crimes, etc. There are some infiltrators at von mises, this is clear, but the idea that the Anarchy symbol and other 6 degrees of separation means that Lew is some evil infiltrating mastermind is a whole lot of BS.

By their fruits you will know them.

I don't recall TTT saying that...he's saying that anarcho-capitalism is an unsound, potentially dangerous route to be taking. I certainly can't agree with Rockwell's solution if that is the political ideal he rallies behind.
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Dig
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2010, 05:10:50 AM »

I don't recall TTT saying that...he's saying that anarcho-capitalism is an unsound, potentially dangerous route to be taking. I certainly can't agree with Rockwell's solution if that is the political ideal he rallies behind.

After reading this FAQ, I have to agree with BTT and you.

I believe the documentary Secret of Oz by Bill Still explains the issues very clearly.

Here is the FAQ that tries to explain Anarcho-Capitalism. It is pro-AC, but I cannot agree with the logic at all...

http://www.ozarkia.net/bill/anarchism/faq.html
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2010, 11:12:24 AM »

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=160459.msg956230#msg956230

I think that post deals with the anarcho-capitalist argument pretty well.
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africknamerican
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2010, 09:25:39 PM »

Anybody who uses the "A" symbol, definitely does not support our Constitutional Republican form of GOVERNMENT!




Why not? Couldn't you use the "A" symbol and support anarchism, yet settle for a constitutional republic as a reasonable approximation?


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Anarcho-capitalism is where ALL government intervention in the private sector is completely eliminated. 


Actually, since ACs theorize the "right" to unlimited private ownership of the earth -- even at the expense of everyone else's rights -- then they must rely on government intervention. Or they would have to use force, making themselves the government.  It's back to "might makes right." No way to run a civilization. 

As for giant corporations: if it weren't for land & resource monopoly and the artificial scarcity rents it creates (as well as creating a position from which to buy even more privileges politically), they wouldn't exist. See The Menace of Privilege, p. 404-8

McDonald's Corp. is basically a huge landlord. The corporation makes its money by acquiring valuable sites and leasing them to franchisees, who do the work. (They also lease or purchase facilities, supplies from the corporation, but that is all well and good -- that's capitalism. And intellectual property, but that's another topic. )

Starbucks Corp. being newer, and very based in busy urban districts, probably has to rent from established landlords more. I heard a guy on C-SPAN say once, in a conversation about the supposed great wealth of Starbucks, that rather than owner of Starbucks, he'd like to own those busy Manhattan corner spots where Starbucks rents. Probably, Starbucks buys these buildings whenever they become available, but I'd guess that doesn't happen often.

Walmart, in addition to being really nasty towards labor, dictating prices to suppliers, etc. is notorious for twisting arms of municpalities for tax breaks.  They get a privileged deal on the taxes for their huge store and parking lot. Even without the tax breaks, they'd be already receiving a subsidy from the taxpayers in the middle of town and the inner-ring suburbs who have to subsidize the sprawl that is Sprawlmart's natural habitat. Taxpayers in older locations pay for prematurely extending infrastructure out into the cornfields to serve Walmart and the financially unsustainable subdivisions that Walmart likes to build near. All govt. intervention.

The bigger Walmart got, the better it could withstand the stifling effect of sales tax, payroll tax, income tax, which smaller competitors could not. This accelerates the demise of competition.

However, we removed all such privileges (stopped taxing productivity, which ends Walmart's comparative advantage wrt absorbing taxes that Mom and Pop can't); started taxing land value held, and stopped cutting any other special breaks for any business, the free market would at last creak into action. I think outsized business like Wal-Mart would prove uncompetitive on many fronts without the tilted playing field they now enjoy. With more jobs, more dollars in our pockets, more growth in town centers rather than the peripheries, and with Mom & Pop and other smaller entities more able to enter the market, Walmart would not look like such a great deal any more. 


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All "public lands" will be sold to developers, so fishing, hunting, camping, hiking, etc will be considered "Trespassing".  All roads will be tolled, and protesting on a formerly public sidewalk, will be now be considered "trespassing".


Good point there. Although I don't feel this is a rationale for federal control of parks (they should all be turned over to the States), there's no guarantee we would have public lands if it weren't for government at some level.


Quote
Remember, the US Constitution is an agreement between the GOVERNMENT and the PEOPLE.  Anarcho-capitalism is a "backdoor" to skirt around the Constitution because there is no agreement between natural persons (the People) and artificial persons (the corporations).  Free speech, bearing arms, right to a jury, etc. will violate "policies" of the "private land" owned by the Corporations.


If we were starting over with a clean slate and a virgin, uninhabited continent and everybody started out absolutely equal, then something like AC might work (for one generation at least -- until the next generation, and new immigrants, come along and say "Where's OURS?"). But that's not the way this country, or any country, was settled. It was done by persons and entities serving powerful and wealthy interests. Once the best fertile convenient, strategic places were claimed, individuals did not have a fair shot, and still do not. Thus, the need to make everyone a financial shareholder in the land and resources.

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The Rockfellers, Carnegies, Harrimans, Fords, and other industrialists got to be the powerful globalist groups they are today because of anarcho-capitalist type of polices of the late 19th century. 


The Menace of Privilege

See Chap 1 starting at p. 29.


Quote
The early 20th century Progressive Movement that Glenn beck demonizes so-much was the "21st Century tea party" of their time.  It was grassroots and they fought for better working conditions.  After the Progressives broke through to the mainstream, they were CO-OPTED by the industrialists (the same way the TEA Party is today). Now progressivism is equated to eugenics, racism, abortion, and feminism, thanks to the globaist foundations steering the movement.


The original Progressives were anti-monopoly and pro-labor.

 
Quote
Last time I checked, all of the globalist think tanks are headed up by the private sector.  Bilderberg, CSIS, CFR, WTO, Trilateral, etc ARE NOT "STATE", they are private.  ANSER Institute for Homeland Security was a PRIVATE organization before DHS was publicly announced by Bush in 2002.  SPLC that scripts the DHS reports is a PRIVATE organization.  Big Pharma are private corporations that pay off the FDA bureaucrats to pass garbage like vioxx and contaminated vaccines.  Big Food pays off the FDA to pass crap like aspartame and GMOs.  The Treasury Department is composed of all JP Morgan, Citibank and Goldman Sachs crooks which are all "private" corporations. 


It's a public-private partnershp, though. All these organizations would have no power without powerful states backing them up, and of course, implementing all their policies.

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Allowing corporations to have free reign and "anarchy" is beyond naive.  The Rockefellers funded Von Mises for a reason, and that family would thrive under this system and you will be a feudalistic slave working 16 hours a day, which will make just enough money to pay for GMO groceries at the town store.


I think that once we remove the menace of Privilege, we will naturally trend toward the ideal of the anarchists and will be able to self-govern in a bottom-up style.  We move this huge weight via the little lever of land value taxation, or earth-based revenue, or whatever you wanna call it -- and simultaenously, eliminating all taxes on productivity. This will help shrink Big Business and Big Govt. down to size. But we could never achieve that by simply disappearing the government and letting the global corporations reign unchecked.
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Freeski
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 09:44:16 PM »

BULLSHIT.

"Anarcho capitalists" are WAY better than socialists so you might want to reconsider who your enemy really is. At least they (anarcho capitalists) are not control freaks. They don't give a crap what you do and they will let you live in peace because it's none of their business. They at least get that. To beat up on them is lunacy when you actually have real monsters who are hellbent on enslaving you.

No self-respecting anarcho capitalist would ever entertain the idea of enslaving you!

The socialist mindset is our biggest problem, and they have proved as much over 1-2 hundred years. The anarcho capitalists have no history of genocide like the socialists, commies, tyrants, fascists or whatever you want to call those asshole f**kers.

I suggest you pick on something dangerous, rather than something you might just happen to not understand or agree with.

Give me a one-on-one barterer and I will embrace him! (or her, especially)

Who the f**k's business is it who I trade with BTW?

Control freaks make me sick.
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"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
birther truther tenther
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 10:03:38 PM »

Why not? Couldn't you use the "A" symbol and support anarchism, yet settle for a constitutional republic as a reasonable approximation?

Supporting a "Republican form of government" and being an anarchist is an oxymoron.  Now being a Minarchist would fit the bill, although I would be cool with it if the 50 states, under their tenth amendment powers, provided more services than what is called for under minarchist theory.  For example, if California wanted to enact universal health care for their residents, they could do that.  I couldn't give a hoot what they do in their state, because I don't live there.  I live in Arizona, and I supported Prop 106 which called for "health freedom" (opts Arizonans out of Obamacare).  So the 50 states would have 50 different ways in dealing with health care issues.

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Walmart, in addition to being really nasty towards labor, dictating prices to suppliers, etc. is notorious for twisting arms of municpalities for tax breaks.  They get a privileged deal on the taxes for their huge store and parking lot. Even without the tax breaks, they'd be already receiving a subsidy from the taxpayers in the middle of town and the inner-ring suburbs who have to subsidize the sprawl that is Sprawlmart's natural habitat. Taxpayers in older locations pay for prematurely extending infrastructure out into the cornfields to serve Walmart and the financially unsustainable subdivisions that Walmart likes to build near. All govt. intervention.

The bigger Walmart got, the better it could withstand the stifling effect of sales tax, payroll tax, income tax, which smaller competitors could not. This accelerates the demise of competition.

Yeah, I'm totally opposed to that type of government intervention.  That's corporate welfare, and I am totally against that. 

The "government intervention" I support is mostly local, county, and state-level at the highest. There should be zoning laws, city ordinances, county health inspections of resturants, etc.  Most residents don't want a smokestack next to their house, most people don't want a strip club next to a school, most people don't want to eat food that has been sitting outside the danger zone too long, quite a few people attend Corporation Commission meetings to debate where to put power lines, etc.  Those are all government interventions necessary to have a civilized society.

I know a lot of anti-NWO people "hate the state", then my answer to them is go move to Somalia!  The government there collapsed.  Go have fun starting up a new society there after fighting off the warlords!


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birther truther tenther
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Against all forms of tyranny


« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 10:16:31 PM »

"Anarcho capitalists" are WAY better than socialists

Lethal injection is way better than gas chamber, but that's not saying much.

At least they (anarcho capitalists) are not control freaks. They don't give a crap what you do and they will let you live in peace because it's none of their business. They at least get that. To beat up on them is lunacy when you actually have real monsters who are hellbent on enslaving you.

No self-respecting anarcho capitalist would ever entertain the idea of enslaving you!

The Anarcho-capitalists might not be the control freaks, but they are paving a yellow brick road for people that are!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT'S WHAT I AM TRYING TO EXPOSE HERE!

S**t, von Mises got funding from the Rockefellers on record.  Scaife the oil tycoon funds BOTH Reason magazine AND Center for Strategic International Studies.  The Kochs are behind the Libertarian movement because they want their industry deregulated.

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Give me a one-on-one barterer and I will embrace him! (or her, especially)

Who the f**k's business is it who I trade with BTW?


Where in my post did I call for banning individual barter?  I barter myself.  I f**king live on Craigslist.



I'm not a disinfo shill or a part of some cult movement where I have to lockstep agree with what some talk show host says.  I'm just trying to show that some views that some patriots embrace are severely flawed.
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africknamerican
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« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2010, 12:23:33 PM »

Supporting a "Republican form of government" and being an anarchist is an oxymoron.


Not if you're a Fabian anarchist.  "Make haste slowly ..."    Grin  

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, anarchism is not about "not having government." It's about abolishing violent or coercive government. But most anarchists, I think, recognize the need for some level of order and respecting one another's rights.
 
I usually refer to myself as a libertarian, but philosophically, I'm with the anarchists. You can be both, of course, in the same sense that a Ph.D could also call himself a Master.

THen, I add the "geo" to refer to an earth-rights-based libertarianism, so I guess that makes me a geolibertarianarchist....

 Anyway -- once you've stopped fantasizing about an anarchist world, how would you get there? Well, you can't just disappear the state. That would just lead to Somalia, as you've mentioned (but remember this is thanks to many decades of covert state engineering to produce just this sort of lawlessness, in part to justify the state's existence.) If you want to get rid of the state, you have to do it gradually. You have to shrink it. At the same time you have to be changing the social order, and changing the way children are raised and educated. All these changes are synergistic.

And of course at the same time, you have to shrink the attendant monopolies/oligopolies. You do that through addressing the four areas of privilege mentioned by Henry George Jr., but they are like a pyramid: the first two hold up all the rest, and those are 1) land/resource monopoly, and 2) such monopoly not paying for the benefits of location, community, public services, but shifting the cost to labor, capital and consumers.

Money monpoly, intellectual property, and all sorts of welfare or grants fall under the third category, and corporate privilege (limited liability) under the fourth. But, the easiest to attack is the base of the pyramid, and that is 1 and 2.  

We can fix 1 and 2 via a Single Tax model, as you understand. That same mechanism, provides its own impetus toward decentralized and localized government. That gets us on the road to building self-governance skills. Monetary and intellectual property reform are also important.

Provided we are also getting our act together spiritually (and I think that might happen along with shedding a lot of government and corporate influence over our lives), we might eventually reach the point Fred Foldvary mentios here, where we could have government from the bottom up, based on sharing the earth like adults, for a free society founded on equal opportunity.

Which is what anarchists really want, including anarcho-capitalists. It's just that the standard doctrine ACs get from Ayn Rand, Hayek, and the like is incomplete on some crucial points, and is not going to lead them where they want without some adjustments. IOW, they have to read the Henry Georges (Sr. and Jr.)  

If we decentralized to the point of compliance with the Constitution I would be very happy. I'm just saying, once we reached that point, we need not stop there -- we can keep on going.


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The "government intervention" I support is mostly local, county, and state-level at the highest. There should be zoning laws, city ordinances, county health inspections of resturants, etc.  Most residents don't want a smokestack next to their house, most people don't want a strip club next to a school, most people don't want to eat food that has been sitting outside the danger zone too long, quite a few people attend Corporation Commission meetings to debate where to put power lines, etc.  Those are all government interventions necessary to have a civilized society.


What if we had a wide variety of local communities. People could move to the community that has the kinds of rules they like, sign a contract agreeing to follow the rules abide by the rules and to be subject to whatever sort of penalties and due process are set up. That way, nobody could claim things were being imposed against their will. These local communities cooperate and send representatives to the township or county (or maybe, bioregion),  which in turn send reps. to the State.  That would be in the spirit of what the better of the Framers were aiming at.

As for money, I'm for paper, as long as we keep the system honest. It would be a lot more honest if we got the private middlemen out of the way. You can't put a natural monopoly i private hands. There is room to have an "official" currency in which to pay the land rent to the local community, and receive the citizen dividend. However, that could exist side-by-side with other currency or credit systems too, I suppose.  
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 09:59:55 PM »

Some common miss-conceptions of free markets debunked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBD6v8g1F4&feature=channel_video_title
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donnay
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 10:26:30 PM »

Some common miss-conceptions of free markets debunked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBD6v8g1F4&feature=channel_video_title

+1000

In a truly free market the regulators are the people--not government.  Hard for government to protect their cronies then--hence the crony capitalism that exist now.
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 10:42:18 PM »


If "ALL" government intervention with the private sector were eliminated, there would be no corporations... or at the very least, none that were treated as "persons" with "rights" and privileges.

This little oversight renders the argument (at least, the OP argument) against anarcho-capitalism moot.  Not that I'm a fan of the idea... just sayin'.
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