Do you believe Satan is real?

[charrington]

I believe we are more like the cells that comrpise the body of God. Like blood cells that flow through this divine body , go through the heart and become reoxygenated and then travel into God's divine mind to be infinite not as self but as a synaptic spark in the eternal thought of God.

God being what? All knowing? All things? Creator or not?

[Kilgore Trout]

God being the energy that orders matter. The entity that expresses through creation. Human beings are an expression of the creator , there is actually no way to defy God's will , that will is absolute , if you believe in perfect design.

[charrington]

God being the energy that orders matter. The entity that expresses through creation. Human beings are an expression of the creator , there is actually no way to defy God's will , that will is absolute , if you believe in perfect design.

So you believe God has intelligence and all things are equal -- everything is everything. He doesn't know or care right from wrong , good or bad?

[Dok]

This dude here talks about giants, not saying he is a credible source because i do not think he is. But he has some studies at the end that sounds prity daming

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=27101320524

Yes, this is a must watch. it has a video on the bottom that will play.

Play Video! (Flash Player) 150kbps  | 36 min.

Yes there really were Giants on the Earth in those days. 

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=27101339396
part 2

[Kilgore Trout]

So you believe God has intelligence and all things are equal -- everything is everything. He doesn't know or care right from wrong , good or bad?

The design of man has intelligence , as does the universe. All things being matter , all things are sum or more parts of this. Now if you are asking me if all beings are equal or all actions are equal , then no , of course I say this because I am biased by my humanity. Do you believe that "sin" is all equal , no greater or lesser offence? Many Christians do , this is exemplary of the notion that all is matter and only our bias sees greater or lesser degrees of equality.

With God in our hearts we judge ourselves , we crucify ourselves and with what we gain we are ressurected. What we gain is humility , compassion , empathy , forgivness , and the knowledge of divine love and how to give that love. Every child of God must go through this process to gain salvation , not from sin but from selfishness and ignorance. Those are the only things which cause all actions that we deem as "sin".

[Novus Ordo]

If you poor a glass of water over the surface of a old oak table it will seem to rush towards every available crack crevasse and recess, it will take on the shape of the surface of the table.
But theirs nothing intelligent going on here its just the nature of water adapting to its surroundings.

[Kilika]

If you poor a glass of water over the surface of a old oak table it will seem to rush towards every available crack crevasse and recess, it will take on the shape of the surface of the table.
But theirs nothing intelligent going on here its just the nature of water adapting to its surroundings.

That's not even a decent scientific statement. What you fail to state is that water cannot adapt unless there is some external force, such as gravity as a result of you turning the glass sideways. So the "pouring" and the gravity are two seperate forces applied to the water. Water does not have a locomotion of it's own. It just is, till gravity or some other force moves it. So water doesn't decide to adapt to it's environment, as it has no intelligence to decide when it needs to adapt, as you suggest. The intelligence is in the gravity.

[Kilgore Trout]

That's not even a decent scientific statement. What you fail to state is that water cannot adapt unless there is some external force, such as gravity as a result of you turning the glass sideways. So the "pouring" and the gravity are two seperate forces applied to the water. Water does not have a locomotion of it's own. It just is, till gravity or some other force moves it. So water doesn't decide to adapt to it's environment, as it has no intelligence to decide when it needs to adapt, as you suggest. The intelligence is in the gravity.

My first thought as well , the gravity is the intelligence. I don't atuomatically equate intelligence with "personhood" or other human characteristic.

[Jackson Holly]

Water is just plain weird ... I know, we take it for granted, but
this rare substance may have much more to do with the seat
of consciousness than we can imagine. And I know that for some
people the existence and 'use' of complex geometry, etc., in creation
is not meaningful ... they will say, 'It's just natural law, the nature of
things', as if that explains it and dismisses the notion of a designing,
guiding intelligence. Water and it's life affirming properties ... amazing.

Have you been baptized?
 



http://www.geometry.net/scientists_bk/conway_john.html

Review
"In the present volume, you will find a much deeper probing, often with the powerful tools of quantum mechanics, of the subtle and sometimes unexpected features of the water molecule in its various states. … You will find here a group of counterfactual studies, where the chemists have picked up the challenge of the cosmologists to imagine other universes where certain physical constants are different. (Of particular interest is the strength of the hydrogen bond, with its implications not only for the physical behavior of water, but for the zipping or unzipping of the nucleic acid links in the strands of genetic DNA.) Toward the end of the book, a more philosophical approach to these pursuits is taken, searching for possible implications to the ‘big questions’ and asking whether anything from the biochemical laboratories hints at an answer about the purposefulness of the universe. Perhaps not unexpectedly, the answers are ambiguous, and the search goes on."
—From the Foreword by Owen Gingerich, professor emeritus of astronomy and the history of science, Harvard University, and senior astronomer emeritus, Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA

Reflecting a rich technical and interdisciplinary exchange of ideas, Water and Life: The Unique Properties of H20 focuses on the properties of water and its interaction with life. The book develops a variety of approaches that help to illuminate ways in which to address deeper questions with respect to the nature of the universe and our place within it.

Grouped in five broad parts, this collection examines the arguments of Lawrence J. Henderson and other scholars on the "fitness" of water for life as part of the physical and chemical properties of nature considered as a foundational environment within which life has emerged and evolved. Leading authorities delve into a range of themes and questions that span key areas of ongoing debate and uncertainty. They draw from the fields of chemistry, biology, biochemistry, planetary and earth sciences, physics, astronomy, and their subspecialties. Several chapters also deal with humanistic disciplines, such as the history of science and theology, to provide additional perspectives.

Bringing together highly esteemed researchers from multidisciplinary fields, this volume addresses fundamental questions relating to the possible role of water in the origin of life in the cosmos. It supports readers in their own explorations of the origin and meaning of life and the role of water in maintaining life."

~~~~~~~> and at the risk of pushing new age woo woo ....

NOV 5, 2010
Amazing Water : David Sereda on Coast 2 Coast

http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/psychedelic-adventure/0ceb84cd7ef24d18901a73e9b03dcc4c



NASA Sound of the Sun exposed to water and flash frozen. Photo: Leonid Izvekov

[Kilgore Trout]

If we consider nature as having the intelligence to form complex goemetric patterns as it does , this is no accident , it may be just the course of nature itself , though to be symetrical and complex seems more than accident and chaos.

I was baptized in the catholic church , made communion but never confirmed. my baptism was not by choice since in catholic tradition it is done when you are newborn. i have not had my children baptized , if they wish this it will be their own desire.

[SongBird]

Baptizing babies is satanic, little angels, i had my girlfriend baptize me in the Spanish Mediterranean, both of us were nekid, i baptized her first if i remember well.
*awesome fun*

[Novus Ordo]

That's not even a decent scientific statement. What you fail to state is that water cannot adapt unless there is some external force, such as gravity as a result of you turning the glass sideways. So the "pouring" and the gravity are two seperate forces applied to the water. Water does not have a locomotion of it's own. It just is, till gravity or some other force moves it. So water doesn't decide to adapt to it's environment, as it has no intelligence to decide when it needs to adapt, as you suggest. The intelligence is in the gravity.

The water and the table was just an allegory to explain evolution, a metaphor if you will, to show their doesn’t have to be a designer involved to bring about our existence.
The funny thing is I wondered if someone would try & over-intellectualize it
I’m reminded of a great quote from a Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon,
“It is like a finger pointing away to the moon, don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory“.
 
Life has just rolled with the punches.

No purpose.

No design.

[Novus Ordo]

"it has no intelligence to decide when it needs to adapt, as you suggest"

erm... don't think so?

[Jackson Holly]

NO:

No purpose.

No design.

Man ... there IS design. I think you mean to say:

No purpose.

Accidental design.

~~~~~~~

I say:

We are the purpose.

No such thing as accidental design.

[Kilika]

The water and the table was just an allegory to explain evolution, a metaphor if you will, to show their doesn’t have to be a designer involved to bring about our existence.
The funny thing is I wondered if someone would try & over-intellectualize it
I’m reminded of a great quote from a Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon,
“It is like a finger pointing away to the moon, don’t concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory“.
 
Life has just rolled with the punches.

No purpose.

No design.

So I guess your a Chaos Theory kind of person? And who...excuse me, what is it that has been doing all those punches for life to roll with, Jet Li? If life is getting smacked around, I'd like to know by what?

Lee: [a student approaches Lee; both bow] Kick me.
[Student looks confused]
Lee: Kick me.
[Student attempts kick]
Lee: What was that? An Exhibition? We need emotional content. Now try again!
[Student tries again]
Lee: I said "emotional content." Not anger! Now try again!
[Student tries again and succeeds]
Lee: That's it! How did it feel?
[Student thinks; Lee smacks his head]
Lee: Don't think. FEEL. It's like a finger pointing at the moon.
[Looks at student who is looking at the finger; smacks student again]
Lee: Do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all of the heavenly glory!
[Student bows; Lee smacks him again]
Lee: Never take your eyes off your opponent... even when you're bowing!
[Student bows again this time keeping his eyes on Lee]
Lee: That's better.
[student walks away; opening credits begin]

What else did Bruce say?

"Yes," replied the Zen master, "and like this cup you too are over-filled with your own ideas and opinions. How do you expect to learn if you are not willing to empty your cup?"

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." Colossians 2:8 (KJB)

[Novus Ordo]

So I guess your a Chaos Theory kind of person? And who...excuse me, what is it that has been doing all those punches for life to roll with, Jet Li? If life is getting smacked around, I'd like to know by what?

The overwhelmingly vast array of species that have existed no longer do! Therefore, Jet Lee in this case would be our planets surface and its relationship with it’s core, the sun and the odd asteroid perhaps.



"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." Colossians 2:8 (KJB

is your cup too over-filled with your own ideas?

and around and around we go.

[cover fire hero]

Basically, what you have is a battle taking place within our collective minds in the world of ideas whereas on one side the forces of darkness want you to listen to your id, which is sort of man's psychopathic baser animalistic nature that wants pie, sex, pleasure and to kill versus the angelic side of the world of ideas in our subconciousness, the superego, and the two battle for control of the ego, the self, as the pendulum swings back forth increasingly faster as the world spirit progresses. Now this of course is an abstract representation that attempts to explain the complex world of the human mind and not to be taken literally. Satan reperesents any human being that has lost the battle with his id and becomes tyrannical and evil. He's the metaphor for the great oppressor which manifests itself through man and thus exists in the world of ideas and in the physical world as the great oppressor.

[Novus Ordo]

NO:
Man ... there IS design. I think you mean to say:

No purpose.

Accidental design.

~~~~~~~

I say:

We are the purpose.

No such thing as accidental design.

No, I'm happy with what I put thanks  

[Novus Ordo]

Basically, what you have is a battle taking place within our collective minds in the world of ideas whereas on one side the forces of darkness want you to listen to your id, which is sort of man's psychopathic baser animalistic nature that wants pie, sex, pleasure and to kill versus the angelic side of the world of ideas in our subconciousness, the superego, and the two battle for control of the ego, the self, as the pendulum swings back forth increasingly faster as the world spirit progresses. Now this of course is an abstract representation that attempts to explain the complex world of the human mind and not to be taken literally. Satan reperesents any human being that has lost the battle with his id and becomes tyrannical and evil. He's the metaphor for the great oppressor which manifests itself through man and thus exists in the world of ideas and in the physical world as the great oppressor.

Well, I’ve read it half a dozen times now and I’ve come to the conclusion it’s a perfect example of literary masturbation, welcome to the debate, please don’t be offended, I’m off to take a couple of headache tablets.

Literary Masturbation:-Difficult for outsiders to read but the writer is very happy

[cover fire hero]

Sorry. I was pointing out that the battle between angels and demons exists within our subconcious minds and that it manifests itself in the world when a person decides whether they're going to do whatever they desire or if they're going to do whatever is morally right.

[Jackson Holly]

No, I'm happy with what I put thanks 

You don't see the design in nature?

[Kilgore Trout]

Sorry. I was pointing out that the battle between angels and demons exists within our subconcious minds and that it manifests itself in the world when a person decides whether they're going to do whatever they desire or if they're going to do whatever is morally right.

I agree with both of your last posts , we can read much more about it in the works of C.G Jung.

[Novus Ordo]

You don't see the design in nature?

Of course I see the designs in nature, I also see no evidence of a designer!

[Dok]

Of course I see the designs in nature, I also see no evidence of a designer!

really? which came first the bee or the flower? or did one wait millions of years for the other?

[Jackson Holly]

Of course I see the designs in nature, I also see no evidence of a designer!

Isn' that statement the same as this?

No purpose.

Accidental design.


~~~~~

OK ... now I am confused. How did the complex designs get there?
Not by accident? Isn't the undeniably complex designs the evidence
of the designer? Inanimate, dumb matter creates complex mathematical,
mechanical, computational design?

[Novus Ordo]

Sorry. I was pointing out that the battle between angels and demons exists within our subconcious minds and that it manifests itself in the world when a person decides whether they're going to do whatever they desire or if they're going to do whatever is morally right.

Ahhhhh… ‘shall I shan’t I, will I wont I and the fact that we all do this?

[cover fire hero]

Ahhhhh… ‘shall I shan’t I, will I wont I and the fact that we all do this?

It's an opinion, a theory, subjective, and not a fact. Yet it seems to be since the battle is consistently portrayed in art, culture, religion, etc. since the beginning of time. Furthermore, it's not something you do. It's something that happens beyond your control and outside of the material world, in the world of our imaginations, where demons and angels exist, and you exist as words in thoughts.

[cover fire hero]

Isn' that statement the same as this?

No purpose.

Accidental design.


~~~~~

OK ... now I am confused. How did the complex designs get there?
Not by accident? Isn't the undeniably complex designs the evidence
of the designer? Inanimate, dumb matter creates complex mathematical,
mechanical, computational design?

Something cannot come from nothing, so the conclusion must reach something. If I look at a table. Where did it come from? The creator, obviously. Or a tree. Where did the tree come from? Nature. Where did nature come from? Well nobody knows so we use this word that nobody understands to explain the unexplainable: God. Where did God come from? How did God create God? Doh. We're trapped in a paradox!

[Novus Ordo]

Isn' that statement the same as this?

No purpose.

Accidental design.


~~~~~

OK ... now I am confused. How did the complex designs get there?
Not by accident? Isn't the undeniably complex designs the evidence
of the designer? Inanimate, dumb matter creates complex mathematical,
mechanical, computational design?

It is estimated that 99% of everything that ever lived on Earth has become extinct. Therefore, we must accept that extinction is part of the evolutionary process on Earth.
I have accepted this as fact, I’ve also accepted that you cannot accept this, which I also accept.

[Kilgore Trout]

It matters not to me whether there is a designer or not , the fact is we're all here now.

[Jackson Holly]

OK ... let's say I was walking through the woods
and came upon this ...


Pieta ~ Michaelangelo

 ... we agree, I think, that there is obvious, undeniable design
inherent in this object (not to mention beauty, workmanship,
emotion, etc).

I would immediately think some designer made this. Right?
I would not think it was created by accident, that the marble
sculpture designed and constructed itself ... not even in a billion
years. Why do people think such nonsense when encountering
non-manmade objects?

Doesn't make sense!  

[DAVIDE MTL]

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."
David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

[Kilgore Trout]

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."
David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

Well since you mention it , have you stopped banking , do not use credit , have disallowed your ss# to identify you?

And just because people believe something does not make it real.

[cover fire hero]

Well since you mention it , have you stopped banking , do not use credit , have disallowed your ss# to identify you?

And just because people believe something does not make it real.

You're not going to accomplish anything by not participating in society. That'd be like if you were in a fight and someone told you sitting down is a good winning strategy.

[Novus Ordo]

OK ... let's say I was walking through the woods
and came upon this ...


Pieta ~ Michaelangelo

 ... we agree, I think, that there is obvious, undeniable design
inherent in this object (not to mention beauty, workmanship,
emotion, etc).

I would immediately think some designer made this. Right?
I would not think it was created by accident, that the marble
sculpture designed and constructed itself ... not even in a billion
years. Why do people think such nonsense when encountering
non-manmade objects?

Doesn't make sense!  

If you do come across such a thing in the woods mate have a look around for a talking snake holding a hammer and chisel.

[Novus Ordo]

It matters not to me whether there is a designer or not , the fact is we're all here now.

Amen to that!

[Kilgore Trout]

You're not going to accomplish anything by not participating in society. That'd be like if you were in a fight and someone told you sitting down is a good winning strategy.

Non participation is non compliance. If you do not morally support bankers and other corrupt orginizations you should not physically support them either.

[Kilgore Trout]

Amen to that!

My whole spiritual philosopy is not concerned with heaven an afterlife or an identity beyond that which is informed and perpetuated by the flesh senses , so amen back

[Novus Ordo]

Something cannot come from nothing, so the conclusion must reach something. If I look at a table. Where did it come from? The creator, obviously. Or a tree. Where did the tree come from? Nature. Where did nature come from? Well nobody knows so we use this word that nobody understands to explain the unexplainable: God. Where did God come from? How did God create God? Doh. We're trapped in a paradox!

It doesn't really come from nothing though, according to the theory. It is small amounts of potential energy of the vacuum momentarily converting to matter as a result of the underlying quantum nature of the universe 

this is worth a looksee

'A Universe From Nothing' by Lawrence Krauss

[DAVIDE MTL]

Well since you mention it , have you stopped banking , do not use credit , have disallowed your ss# to identify you?

And just because people believe something does not make it real.

so you admit the nwo is a satanic agenda?