Do you believe Satan is real?

[decepticon]

Of course you are not fools , but this is why man should not look to religions and their texts to know God. Like Love God cannot be described adequatly to one who knows not the experience , to read the impressions of others is a far cry from actually having an experience which tells you of the divine force which is God.

No amount of language can describe God or love , to know these things one must experience them for themselves. anything else is relying on the perceptions of others which can be usefull in becoming aware that there is something to experience at all , but it is for the experience one should pray or meditate upon. Since when has it been good enough to take someone elses word for something regarding your own soul..? You should find out for yourself. The paramters set in books are too limiting to the magnificant awakening God allows.

Ok, I can see where you stand. i believe you said above something the lines of "i do not/have not created my own god." when quite clearly you have. this is why we have religious texts btw. to define who god is. if you don't subscribe to any of the various texts, then their gods are not yours. what it seems you have done is take pieces from each of their gods to create your own. all the benefits, none of the hassle right ? somehow this does not, to use a newager term, "balance in the universe" for me.

Of course no text captures the majesty of god. nor would any sight, sound, feeling, or any other thing within this dimension capture. man in uncapable of even beginning to comprehend god.

and i have experienced the love of my god, quite intimately. to lay in an ocean of peace. any "experience" i have had has only caused me to believe the texts more. i'm not going to read something, and mindlessly tell other people they should read it and follow it too.

what do you think will happen to you when you die ?

[Kilgore Trout]

No , the God I believe in has been attempted to be described by every religion , I'm just not biased enough to think any are more right or wrong than another , they are just subjective perceptions.

"Belief in God is faith , belief about God is religion"

When we die , it would be a matter of opinion of course.

no peices to make my own , you are too connected to the flesh to understand I think. There is one God , all men have tried to describe this , I need not piece it out , it is everything.

[charrington]

You certainly couldn't say with any amount of validity. You apply the words of others as a surrogate for true experience. As I've written , that might be useful to become aware of the fact that their is something to experience , but it is not meant to be in place of personal spiritual communion.

How is it kilgore that your experiences are better then ours? More qualified to deem what the definition of love and God are? Unless you have something solid to say or to give, your words are empty as your self defined God.

Everyone here has experienced God , Discernment and Love - truly who do you think you are to say you know better? Wasn't that your argument some time back? That's all you were trying to say right? You base what you believe on your own understanding and Christians base theirs on the Bible's.

[charrington]

There is no power for me in the words in a book , use it away , it doesn't even pass it's own tests. The bible is a game of "telephone" , speaking of juvenile.

I wonder why Christians don't believe one when they tell them they are a child of God , Jesus rejected much of the "laws" of the jews too , it is the same today , and Christians are the persecurtors of God's children , by insisting that they adhere to established "law" , too many of you have nothing but law and not any of the spirit.  

This also applies to you kilgore.. Do you know what spirit is?

[Kilgore Trout]

How is it kilgore that your experiences are better then ours? More qualified to deem what the definition of love and God are? Unless you have something solid to say or to give, your words are empty as your self defined God.

Everyone here has experienced God , Discernment and Love - truly who do you think you are to say you know better? Wasn't that your argument some time back? That's all you were trying to say right? You base what you believe on your own understanding and Christians base theirs on the Bible's.

You've missed the point of everything I've said , no experiences are not better than your yours , but you don't seem to have any beyond those you have read , I express only my subjective experiences , my point was that you should have your own , not rely on the bible or any other writings , myself included.

[Kilgore Trout]

You've missed the point of everything I've said , no my experiences are not better than yours , but you don't seem to have any beyond those you have read , I express only my subjective experiences , my point was that you should have your own , not rely on the bible or any other writings , myself included.

This is what I meant to say , was distracted when I wrote the original reply.

You've missed the point of everything I've said , no my experiences are not better than yours , but you don't seem to have any beyond those you have read , I express only my subjective experiences , my point was that you should have your own , not rely on the bible or any other writings , myself included.

[charrington]

You've missed the point of everything I've said , no experiences are not better than your yours , but you don't seem to have any beyond those you have read , I express only my subjective experiences , my point was that you should have your own , not rely on the bible or any other writings , myself included.

We do Kilgore and that was my point. Those experiences have led many of us TO the bible and not in the direction you suggest for yourself and someone telling me that I don't without any knowledge of me personally is pretty shallow. How would you even begin to know what anyone here has experienced and begin to think you do?

I mean really we all understand what you are saying I believe but we just found out experiences have led us down a different road.

[Kilgore Trout]

We do Kilgore and that was my point and someone telling me that I don't without any knowledge of me personally is pretty shallow. How would you even begin to know what anyone here has experienced and begin to think you do?

Wow - that to me is supreme ego.

You have said in so many words that you discount your own experiences and opt to know God through the bible , all I've said is that you should not rely on the experiences and perceptions of others as you find in the bible to inform your heart about what God is .

[charrington]

You have said in so many words that you discount your own experiences and opt to know God through the bible , all I've said is that you should not rely on the experiences and perceptions of others as you find in the bible to inform your heart about what God is .

I've said that my experiences led me to the Bible -- Honestly I don't think I could have begun to fully comprehended the vastness of that subject without meditating on the Bible teachings.

[Kilgore Trout]

Okay , My experiences led me to God , whatever works , just know that these are two of many ways to go about finding God , there is no perscription. I know your bible says there is , in the real world things will resonate with some and not others , and none are more or less valid , they are all paths to the same place.

[charrington]

Okay , My experiences led me to God , whatever works , just know that these are two of many ways to go about finding God , there is no perscription. I know your bible says there is , in the real world things will resonate with some and not others , and none are more or less valid , they are all paths to the same place.

What is the real world to you if you don't mind me asking.

[Kilgore Trout]

What is the real world to you if you don't mind me asking.

The world not beholden to dogma , the world which must concede that we are all outside of a locked door regarding the truth about our souls or God , and that no "truth" is ultimate regarding spirit.

[charrington]

The world not beholden to dogma , the world which must concede that we are all outside of a locked door regarding the truth about our souls or God , and that no "truth" is ultimate regarding spirit.

What does that do for you? In what way do you enjoy that?

[Kilgore Trout]

What does that do for you? In what way do you enjoy that?

It's not a matter of enjoyment , I have little choice really , I was called by God to participate with him in effecting those around me , by practicing love , kindness , forgivness , compassion , empathy. It was revealed to me that to apply those human principles when interacting with God's children , all men are capable of the miracles Christ is known for , even levitation , the lightness of the spirit nurtured will become the lightness of the flesh body observed.

[Kinpa]

It's not a matter of enjoyment , I have little choice really , I was called by God to participate with him in effecting those around me , by practicing love , kindness , forgivness , compassion , empathy. It was revealed to me that to apply those human principles when interacting with God's children , all men are capable of the miracles Christ is known for , even levitation , the lightness of the spirit nurtured will become the lightness of the flesh body observed.

i see no wrong whatsoever in this...a complete surrender of the will to that of Spirit, to let It do with you as It will....and im not talking about evil spirits everyone, im talking about the Holy Spirit, of God, It does not require any book to have an effect on one's life, but It does require surrenduring the will, the ego to It's will...

[Kilgore Trout]

i see no wrong whatsoever in this...a complete surrender of the will to that of Spirit, to let It do with you as It will....and im not talking about evil spirits everyone, im talking about the Holy Spirit, of God, It does not require any book to have an effect on one's life, but It does require surrenduring the will, the ego to It's will...

Yes. I believe that it is the consciousness and insistance of self that places a division bewtween God and man.  If you look at the garden of eden story in a symbolic way , you see that when they became cosncious of their nudity , they became ashamed , to be self conscious or too conscious of self ,  is to shut out God in favor of the "character" of the ego which is the product of the fragmented mind. fragmented from God. To become whole it seems , one must come into the knowledge of that "God consciousness" to bring 1 and 1 together , to make whole what was fractured by the ego.

[Kinpa]

So let me get this straight -- Satan who is first mentioned in the Bible (some would say invented in the Bible) ergo the Bible being the foremost document on that subject (Satan) should NOT be used to verify that Satan and Satanic or demonic possession exist and how it manifests itself?


Actually if you look at most of the resources for possession you'll find they are tied to religious artifacts and to religion in general. Why? -- because Satan has to do with Religion and the Bible eh? Those type of sites (aside from the lame cable ghost hunter type shows) are where you'll find most of the demonic reports of possession. So showing evidence that is not of Biblical and religious background is suspect to personal hearsay.

Although most cases of possession involve a single evil spirit, it's possible for a person to be taken over by several spirits simultaneously. In a modern case , a victim spoke in different voices which claimed to be the same demons that had previously possessed Judas Iscariot, Emperor Nero, Adolf Hitler, and several other well-known evildoers. I think we all know what their behavior was like.

There have been modern cases of people exhibiting forms of mental illness that have gone through exorcism and seemingly cured. So you see it is true that demonic possession isn't always head spinning and puking. And it does happen to be pretty obvious to most people that actually read the Bible that world leaders exhibit qualities of Satan - how many times have you heard others say the world has gone mad - just look now at what the TSA is doing. That's not normal thinking ---

There are thousands of them you can Google for yourself and I hope others will do so to... So I wouldn't call it just my opinion - Science will tell you otherwise and if you chose to believe what science offers for it's explanation that's your choice. There is also a difference between Demonic oppression and possession. Look up Demonic oppression and see if you have any of those behaviors.

Here is one I Googled just now that says exactly what I said in my post.
http://fspp.net/warn%20poss.htm
Laff -- you mean like - saying that homo sapiens and Neanderthal had sex to create Nephilim was a fact?
You've taken it personally that a few of us have pointed out that you are being hypocritical and this is just another way of trying to take the heat off without having to admit to it.

See above
Because it's a much written about subject. It's not in hiding you can look it up yourself. Did you think it was a state secret or something?My direct experience with a demon is that one cooked my mother, her sister (my aunt) and myself breakfast and folded all of our laundry. But again that isn't' a common experience or possession but it was extremely eerie. Most of the ones you read about that catch the Media's attention will be "hollywood" and shock dramatic. Yet if you start looking at search results or read books you'll find there are MANY ways they manifest themselves in others and influence in others.

I also know of a young woman from Ghana in my faith that when she was first approached and as soon as a Bible discussion was begun, she would start weeping. ‘A spirit possessed her, and whenever it did, it made her weep, and any money she happened to have on her vanished.’

Demons are not stupid and it does NOT serve they would exhibit obviously rash behavior when in possession of an authority where in other cases it would serve them better to be flamboyant. They only have to fool people like yourself.
Yes, I would
So if you've been reading the bible you'd exactly how they work and what your protection is.
Lets start with the fact that Demons and Satan are biblical creatures - hence if you believe in the existence of Satan and demons then you in essence are saying you believe in at least one aspect of the bible because Satan doesn't exist without the Bible -  To say you believe in Satan and don't believe in God isn't cohesive thinking because God is the inspired author of the Bible. No other doctrine predating the bible uses the translated word Satan. They are eternally connected.

So unless you believe that neither exist and both are "man made" in which case your point is mute, then both God and Satan exist. It would follow then that since we obtained this information about Satan and God from the Bible and and God being the omnipotent being in the cosmos according to the information in the Bible that he would make sure his message was safe from a fallen Angel or Angels for all mankind to benefit from as he promised?

If you compare dates, times, rulers, places, artifacts and any of the details in secular history to the bible it stands up to scrutiny. We've done HUGE posts on this in other threads so I'll not go deep into it here.
There is enough accurate information in the bible to trust it as a book of fact and prophecy that has no comparison. Go and look it up all the work as been done for you.

Either you believe the bible is the word of God or you don't.
Yes, the bible is the key to discernment and is based not on my own human imperfect unreliable understanding but the actual inspired word of God. Fearing God is the start of true wisdom. If you base your wisdom on little voices and self contained experiences there's nothing biblical about it and therefore can't be trusted. More then words in a book and more then words in someones head.

So what exactly was your "discernment" based on again?
If you don't agree with the patriot act you are not a patriot... I think they call that being intellectually dishonest. Don't be an idiot you're not talking to an adolescent.

youre making me laugh yet again, do you even know what a demon is?? apparently you do not...an angel is a demon, would you like proof? let's research the term demon:
demon Look up demon at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., from L. daemon "spirit," from Gk. daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from base *da- "to divide" (see tide). Used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in Middle English. The original mythological sense is sometimes written daemon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates was a daimonion, a "divine principle or inward oracle." His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise."

the truth is, that the "Holy Spirit" that "inspired" the writing of the bible is one and the same with what a daimon is, no difference whatsoever, other than the "writer's" claim that it is Divine and not otherwise...you, yourself have not a single clue as to which it is, you merely BELIEVE...a long far cry from KNOWING, a VERY distinct difference...but im sure that you feel that YOU know because you believe so strongly, that YOUR poit of view is correct, and those who disagree are "wrong" but the truth of the matter is that you have absolutely NO idea, you simply believe, and belief is a double edged sword...the greek word daimon refers to both good and evil spirits, the word itself makes no distinction between the two, so the rest of what you say on the matter has nothing to do with anything, just your opinion...ou simply cant have discernment of spirit, without interacting with spirits, both the good and the bad, how else would you know HOW to discern between the two?...as far as hamo sapien mating with neanderthal man, look at the words i used once again, go ahead, do it...i cant prove they did any more than you can prove that they didnt, which means only one thing, they MIGHT have, or not, neither of us KNOWS the truth of that matter, but, at least one archaeologist believes that they DID, and this was the entire foundation of my claim...i simply played with your mind by choosing the words i chose, to watch you spin a little hissy fit, and, i was not disappointed, and all i did was put things in the same terminology you do, concerning what i BELIEVE to be true, do you see what that looks like now? from a different point of view, you continuously do the same thing, constantly...BOOYA~! youve done HUGE posts on this and so what? you still have never proved a thing, btw, nice how you avoided my original question, when have you EVER faced down with a demon? have you ever? did you send it on it's way or not? im still waiting to hear the truth of your experience on this matter, or are you too afraid to answer the question?Jesus wouldnt approve of you answering my question? Jesus backed up his talk with his walk, cant you do the same? would an anti christ, or one who is under demonic control be challenged by a demon? or would one who is holy be more challenged by demons? which is it? pick one, and by picking one, the other is no longer an option...by the way, hint, hint, this IS a trick question, answer VERY carefully...

[tennis shoe]

i see no wrong whatsoever in this...a complete surrender of the will to that of Spirit, to let It do with you as It will....and im not talking about evil spirits everyone, im talking about the Holy Spirit, of God, It does not require any book to have an effect on one's life, but It does require surrenduring the will, the ego to It's will...

How can one tell the difference between the real Holy Spirit of God and some other spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit?

[Kilgore Trout]

How can one tell the difference between the real Holy Spirit of God and some other spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit?

The spirit does not claim , it speaks not , it acts.

[charrington]

The spirit does not claim , it speaks not , it acts.

Meaning what? How does it act for you?

[Kinpa]

I'd say you are probably a dry drunk. Time to get back to meetings.

excuses are like @ssholes, everybody has one...but you seem to have several...answer the questions, they are quite honest, and i (not that its any of your business) havent had a drink in almost 6 years, no temptation whatsoever...i dont smoke weed or take any other sort of drugs either, so this excuse is simply no good...either put up, or shut up, the choice is entirely yours...

[Kilgore Trout]

Meaning what? How does it act for you?

I think that perhaps you are too focused on cause and effect which is the symptom of a worldly scientific mind. This speaks to the deep attachment you have to a paradigm wherein you expect something to "happen" for you , rather than seeing that what happens is for God.

[charrington]

excuses are like @ssholes, everybody has one...but you seem to have several...answer the questions, they are quite honest, and i (not that its any of your business) havent had a drink in almost 6 years, no temptation whatsoever...i dont smoke weed or take any other sort of drugs either, so this excuse is simply no good...either put up, or shut up, the choice is entirely yours...

I doubt that is true -- like most of the things you say. Seriously talk to your sponsor.

[charrington]

youre making me laugh yet again, do you even know what a demon is?? apparently you do not...an angel is a demon, would you like proof? let's research the term demon:
demon Look up demon at Dictionary.com

Here's a few that carry more weight.

- a demon is considered an "unclean spirit" which is exactly what the bible says

So if you want to cherry pick .... at least use people that know what they are talking about.
Here's another dictionary Demon = evil spirit
There's a lot more that say the same thing if you like?

   late 14c., from L. daemon "spirit," from Gk. daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from base *da- "to divide" (see tide). Used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii.31 has daimones, translated as deofol in O.E., feend or deuil in Middle English. The original mythological sense is sometimes written daemon for purposes of distinction. The Demon of Socrates was a daimonion, a "divine principle or inward oracle." His accusers, and later the Church Fathers, however, represented this otherwise."

Yes and notice nowhere does it say Angels are demons?
The common Greek word for demon (dai'mon) occurs only once in the Christian Greek Scriptures, in Matthew 8:31; elsewhere the word dai·mo'ni·on appears. Pneu'ma, the Greek word for “spirit,” at times is applied to wicked spirits, or demons. (Mt 8:16) It also occurs qualified by terms such as “wicked,” “unclean,” “speechless,” and “deaf.”—Lu 7:21; Mt 10:1; Mr 9:17, 25; see SPIRIT (Spirit Persons).

That is the common and correct definition. There's no mention of Angels being the same as Demons as you state.

the truth is, that the "Holy Spirit" that "inspired" the writing of the bible is one and the same with what a daimon is, no difference whatsoever, other than the "writer's" claim that it is Divine and not otherwise...you, yourself have not a single clue as to which it is,

Say's who? you?

you merely BELIEVE...a long far cry from KNOWING, a VERY distinct difference...but im sure that you feel that YOU know because you believe so strongly, that YOUR poit of view is correct, and those who disagree are "wrong" but the truth of the matter is that you have absolutely NO idea, you simply believe, and belief is a double edged sword...the greek word daimon refers to both good and evil spirits,

I'm sorry but there is no mention of "good" anywhere .. just spirit and unclean spirit.

the word itself makes no distinction between the two, so the rest of what you say on the matter has nothing to do with anything, just your opinion...ou simply cant have discernment of spirit, without interacting with spirits, both the good and the bad, how else would you know HOW to discern between the two?...

Common sense -- I don't need to step in front a moving vehicle to know I'll get hurt if I do. Now if you don't have the education to determine between the two then -- you wouldn't know as you pointed out.

as far as hamo sapien mating with neanderthal man, look at the words i used once again, go ahead, do it...i cant prove they did any more than you can prove that they didnt, which means only one thing, they MIGHT have, or not, neither of us KNOWS the truth of that matter, but, at least one archaeologist believes that they DID, and this was the entire foundation of my claim

Yeah Here - "Ignore historical fact" It seemed it was meant to be more antagonistic then anything but - there ya go.

i bet no one wants to hear that the Nephilim were actually neanderthal man lol, they cohabitated and interbred with homo sapiens in Isreal...it must be fun to be able to ignore historical fact for the preference of your own fables and mythology  

But this is my favorite kinpa --  

humans did live with, and procreate with neanderthal man, not really that much of a big deal...they found a great number of skeletons of both races, indicating co-habitation...you do the math, do you honestly believe they DIDNT have sex?? I do.

That just kills me - lol

As if this --->:


Looked at this:---->


And said "TAKE ME" I'm laughing out loud...

I dunno about you kinpa but most humans don't go to the zoo and get sexually aroused at the Ape sanctuary. Maybe you feel differently. Rough neighborhood I guess laff.

...i simply played with your mind by choosing the words i chose, to watch you spin a little hissy fit, and, i was not disappointed, and all i did was put things in the same terminology you do, concerning what i

I think you are a very confused person Kinpa

BELIEVE to be true, do you see what that looks like now? from a different point of view, you continuously do the same thing, constantly...BOOYA~! youve done HUGE posts on this and so what? you still have never proved a thing, btw, nice how you avoided my original question, when have you EVER faced down with a demon? have you ever? did you send it on it's way or not? im still waiting to hear the truth of your experience on this matter, or are you too afraid to answer the question?Jesus wouldnt approve of you answering my question?

I think I did mention about my experience - I'm still laughing about the ape sex ... I can't stop...

Jesus backed up his talk with his walk, cant you do the same? would an anti christ, or one who is under demonic control be challenged by a demon? or would one who is holy be more challenged by demons? which is it? pick one, and by picking one, the other is no longer an option...by the way, hint, hint, this IS a trick question, answer VERY carefully...

Yes Kinpa - Anyone can fall under demonic oppression and possession. Including people that think they are doing Gods work - Matt 7:22,23 - Satan is far smarter then you be careful. False religion performs exorcisms - the original false flag -- But you'd have to read the bible to know that and what that is about.

I thought you said you didn't believe in Jesus and the Bible?

[charrington]

I think that perhaps you are too focused on cause and effect which is the symptom of a worldly scientific mind. This speaks to the deep attachment you have to a paradigm wherein you expect something to "happen" for you , rather than seeing that what happens is for God.

Example ...?

[Jackson Holly]

charrington:

I dunno about you kinpa but most humans don't go to the zoo and get sexually aroused at the Ape sanctuary. Maybe you feel differently. Rough neighborhood I guess laff.

I haven't been keeping up with the thread ... but noticed this business about Neanderthals. They were human and could breed with 'modern' strains. They also had larger brains on average.


http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_2.htm

                Comparison of Cranial Capacities
 
                             range (cm3)              average (cm3)   
chimpanzees            300-500                     ----     
australopithecines    390-545                     ----
Homo habilis             509-752                      610
Homo erectus            750-1250                    930
Homo heidelbergensis  1100-1390                1206 
Neandertals              1200-1750                    1450 
modern Homo sapiens  900-1880                     1345   
 
 Note: There is a considerable range in body size among
 modern Homo sapiens, including large numbers of small
 people.  Subsequently, the average brain size is smaller
 than would initially seem likely. However, the average for
 some modern populations (especially European and most
 African ones) is slightly larger than that of Neandertals

[Kinpa]

Here's a few that carry more weight.

come again, no, they actually dont carry any weight...

- a demon is considered an "unclean spirit" which is exactly what the bible says

that is irrelevant, im looking at the origins of the word, youre looking at only one meaning,, it is you that is left out here, not i...

So if you want to cherry pick .... at least use people that know what they are talking about.
Here's another dictionary Demon = evil spirit
There's a lot more that say the same thing if you like?

Yes and notice nowhere does it say Angels are demons?
The common Greek word for demon (dai'mon) occurs only once in the Christian Greek Scriptures, in Matthew 8:31; elsewhere the word dai·mo'ni·on appears. Pneu'ma, the Greek word for “spirit,” at times is applied to wicked spirits, or demons. (Mt 8:16) It also occurs qualified by terms such as “wicked,” “unclean,” “speechless,” and “deaf.”—Lu 7:21; Mt 10:1; Mr 9:17, 25; see SPIRIT (Spirit Persons).

oh, so the mute and deaf are unclean spirits?? really?it seems youre choosing YOUR versions of the woprds meanings, and leaving the rest out...typical...

That is the common and correct definition. There's no mention of Angels being the same as Demons as you state.
Say's who? you?
I'm sorry but there is no mention of "good" anywhere .. just spirit and unclean spirit.

sure there is, look at the etymology site i took the word from...ALL spirits, not just the unclean, or did you forget about discernment of spirit?? i see your avoiding my question yet again, what, if any, experience do you have with any demon, be it angelic or unclean?? you wouldnt know if one patted you on the ass, and THAT is the truth, you have NO experience of any sort (that youre aware of) with demons, yet i can send them away....how is that? because im the anti christ? um, NO...because i am Spiritual, i can discern between an "unclean" spirit and a regular old clean one...but you obviously cant, and yet you carry a few around with you...
 

Common sense -- I don't need to step in front a moving vehicle to know I'll get hurt if I do. Now if you don't have the education to determine between the two then -- you wouldn't know as you pointed out.

Yeah Here - "Ignore historical fact" It seemed it was meant to be more antagonistic then anything but - there ya go.


But this is my favorite kinpa --  

That just kills me - lol

As if this --->:


Looked at this:---->


And said "TAKE ME" I'm laughing out loud...

I dunno about you kinpa but most humans don't go to the zoo and get sexually aroused at the Ape sanctuary. Maybe you feel differently. Rough neighborhood I guess laff.

laugh it up fuzzball...i KNOW, that you are alone, and without love, because you dont know the meaning of the word LMAO~! try again...oh, and apes at the zoo arent at all the same as neanderthals that humans lived with ,they lived with them, so apparently they didnt find them all that hairy or smelly or unattractive, otherwise they wouldnt have shared a cave for centuries...yeah, nothing gets by you, does it? try again...

I think you are a very confused person Kinpa
I think I did mention about my experience - I'm still laughing about the ape sex ... I can't stop...

i KNOW that you are confused and quite alone...an ape wouldnt have you lol...keep it coming...

Yes Kinpa - Anyone can fall under demonic oppression and possession. Including people that think they are doing Gods work - Matt 7:22,23 - Satan is far smarter then you be careful. False religion performs exorcisms - the original false flag -- But you'd have to read the bible to know that and what that is about.

i dont need an exorcism, i simply command them to go, and they do, because they dont have a choice in the matter...who's religion is false?? yours is...satan has already got you under his wing, but you wont be able to see that until you die...good luck with that one...

I thought you said you didn't believe in Jesus and the Bible?

i dont, what of it? you dont even remotely understand Jesus' words or the bible...you have NO room to talk... tell your lil riders hi for me willya??  

[Kinpa]

Example ...?

you believing youre "saved" and yet you have no conception of what Divine Love is or means...keep following that ego, satan really loves the ego, it's the oldest trick in the book (all of the books) but you go on with it, dont let any sort of humility hold you down...

[Kinpa]

I doubt that is true -- like most of the things you say. Seriously talk to your sponsor.

but you dont know anything do you?and if youve read, you would know that i didnt take AA, i have no sponsor, God is my sponsor...seriously, get those demons off of you, its quite unattractive...stop reading the bible so much, and TALK TO GOD instead...Divine Wisdom isnt found in the pages of ANY book, you have to gain that from within...take the challenge, go within and gain some...

[Kinpa]

This also applies to you kilgore.. Do you know what spirit is?

do YOU know what Spirit is?i notice that you dont capitalize the word...which spirit is it that you listen to??one that isnt worthy of capitalization, like a proper noun??

[SongBird]

Can't ya'll just put your evidence or views up for folks to judge for themselves without all this childish i know how it is i have the answer my answer is the correct one bull, i dunno?, so much hating, gets a man down, were lucky to have folks to talk with about this stuff with an open mind, maybe we should realize how much in common we have?
Can't we be friendly and drop the ego?
I'd have ditched this embarrasement in the bashing section weeks ago, but that's just me, don't you realize JOe Stirling drops threads and never returns to them, shit he won't even respond to ya.

[charrington]

charrington:
I haven't been keeping up with the thread ... but noticed this business about Neanderthals. They were human and could breed with 'modern' strains. They also had larger brains on average.


http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_2.htm

                Comparison of Cranial Capacities
 
                             range (cm3)              average (cm3)   
chimpanzees            300-500                     ----     
australopithecines    390-545                     ----
Homo habilis             509-752                      610
Homo erectus            750-1250                    930
Homo heidelbergensis  1100-1390                1206 
Neandertals              1200-1750                    1450 
modern Homo sapiens  900-1880                     1345   
 
 Note: There is a considerable range in body size among
 modern Homo sapiens, including large numbers of small
 people.  Subsequently, the average brain size is smaller
 than would initially seem likely. However, the average for
 some modern populations (especially European and most
 African ones) is slightly larger than that of Neandertals

Hey Jackson Holy -

Yes, isn't that interesting? I don't think they were more intelligent (they were, according to science more "chimp like" in size then human) or Sexier however

Here's something else that I thought was interesting:

Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens are two different species that both evolved from Homo Erectus. There was a long debate over the question whether Neanderthals were indeed a different species than Homo Sapiens. Some claimed that, in fact, Neanderthals could crossbreed with Homo Sapiens and that modern humans are the result of this interbreeding. However, tests comparing Neanderthal and modern human mitochondrial DNA show too great a dissimilarity for Neanderthals to have contributed to the human mitochondrial genome. Thus, it seems settled that Neanderthals were indeed wiped out by the arrival of Homo Sapiens in Europe.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Neanderthals-were-too-smart-to-survive-15264.shtml


Of course that is science - "Personally" I don't believe in Darwinism. But hey when Science says DNA doesn't match.. then what can you say? Interesting world we live in...

[charrington]

Can't ya'll just put your evidence or views up for folks to judge for themselves without all this childish i know how it is i have the answer my answer is the correct one bull, i dunno?, so much hating, gets a man down, were lucky to have folks to talk with about this stuff with an open mind, maybe we should realize how much in common we have?
Can't we be friendly and drop the ego?
I'd have ditched this embarrasement in the bashing section weeks ago, but that's just me, don't you realize JOe Stirling drops threads and never returns to them, shit he won't even respond to ya.

Yeah , I posted that same thing about Joe in this thread

[Jackson Holly]

Charrington:

Yep ... ancient man and his relation to modern man is a big gray area. It's hard to imagine a world with different strains of humans who may or may not have been biologically compatible ... but apparently that was the situation. The Neanderthals were a very successful breed, especially in Northern Europe I believe, during the ice age.

Different researchers report differing results from DNA extracted from bones ... here's a quote from the link above:

"In 2009, a first draft of the Neandertal genome was completed.  It consists of 60% of their approximately 3 billion DNA base units.  They were sequenced mostly from bones found in Vindija Cave in Croatia.  Based on this information, Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany concluded that the Neandertal and modern human genomes share 99.5-99.9% of their base unit  sequences.  He estimated that the Neandertal line began to diverge from ours by about 800,000 years ago and that we were "genetically distinct" by 300,000 years ago.  Further analysis of the Vindija Cave Neandertal DNA by Richard Green of the University of California, Santa Cruz led him to announce in 2010 that 1-4% of the DNA in modern Europeans and Asians came from Neandertals.  Therefore, he suggested that there must have been at least a small amount of interbreeding between modern humans and Neandertals around 80-50,000 years ago.  This most likely occurred in Southwest Asia, shortly after modern humans migrated out of Africa.  This would account for the lack of Neandertal DNA markers in African populations today. "



Reconstruction of a
late Neandertal child's
appearance based
on skeletal material
found in Gibraltar


I'm sorry if I derailed the thread!

[Kilgore Trout]

Example ...?

It is not to increase the relivance of the self , or to store up things that would please man in an afterlife , but to diminish the self and ascimilate back into the consciousness that is God. To go form the fragmented state that we know find ourselves in and to reassemble that which was torn apart by the insistance that we are separate and not as one , which in essence we are apart form God as long as we never realize that are a part of God. Much like a finger on God's hand going awol in spirit from the rest of the hand.

[charrington]

Charrington:

Yep ... ancient man and his relation to modern man is a big gray area. It's hard to imagine a world with different strains of humans who may or may not have been biologically compatible ... but apparently that was the situation. The Neanderthals were a very successful breed, especially in Northern Europe I believe, during the ice age.

Different researchers report differing results from DNA extracted from bones ... here's a quote from the link above:

"In 2009, a first draft of the Neandertal genome was completed.  It consists of 60% of their approximately 3 billion DNA base units.  They were sequenced mostly from bones found in Vindija Cave in Croatia.  Based on this information, Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany concluded that the Neandertal and modern human genomes share 99.5-99.9% of their base unit  sequences.  He estimated that the Neandertal line began to diverge from ours by about 800,000 years ago and that we were "genetically distinct" by 300,000 years ago.  Further analysis of the Vindija Cave Neandertal DNA by Richard Green of the University of California, Santa Cruz led him to announce in 2010 that 1-4% of the DNA in modern Europeans and Asians came from Neandertals.  Therefore, he suggested that there must have been at least a small amount of interbreeding between modern humans and Neandertals around 80-50,000 years ago.  This most likely occurred in Southwest Asia, shortly after modern humans migrated out of Africa.  This would account for the lack of Neandertal DNA markers in African populations today. "



Reconstruction of a
late Neandertal child's
appearance based
on skeletal material
found in Gibraltar

It's believed the level of genetic difference is proof alone that the races of man have been differentiated since Homo Erectus.
http://erectuswalksamongst.us/Chap28.html

Obviously an approximate generalization of the multi-regional "evolutionary" process.
Archaic Europeans would be Heidelbergensis, from which sprang Neanderthals and Cromagnon.


And how Genetically Similar and Dissimilar Are Europeans From Other Races to begin with? Who and how the DNA testing is interwoven with politics etc...

I don't know enough of the particulars to know what irregularities or flaws they made or if there were alternative explanations they ignored. If you read the actual original publications, they almost always will find issues with them, many say that the figure is most likely just one possible result, like that one. The error is essentially always in the orientation of making genes appear younger than they are or having correct Genetic evidence to begin with.

Questions abound -

I've seen that picture (neanderthal boy) before attached to something else.. Trying to locate it.

Read this if you get a chance:
Darwinism and Intelligent Design (Jonathan Wells, Ph.D.)

I'm sorry if I derailed the thread!

That took place days ago

[charrington]

It is not to increase the relivance of the self , or to store up things that would please man in an afterlife , but to diminish the self and ascimilate back into the consciousness that is God. To go form the fragmented state that we know find ourselves in and to reassemble that which was torn apart by the insistance that we are separate and not as one , which in essence we are apart form God as long as we never realize that are a part of God. Much like a finger on God's hand going awol in spirit from the rest of the hand.

Do you believe God experiences life through you and all humans?

[Kilgore Trout]

Do you believe God experiences life through you and all humans?

I believe we are more like the cells that comrpise the body of God. Like blood cells that flow through this divine body , go through the heart and become reoxygenated and then travel into God's divine mind to be infinite not as self but as a synaptic spark in the eternal thought of God.

[Jackson Holly]

charrington:

Read this if you get a chance:
Darwinism and Intelligent Design (Jonathan Wells, Ph.D.)

I will look for that one ... I am reading a lot along these lines now

and I am questioning everything Darwinistic. It's obvious to me that

life is of 'common ancestry' ... but I don't think of it as 'one thing', but

rather as a 'family'. Mutation or accidents in the replication process can

produce minor changes which, if beneficial, may by 'natural selection' become

dominant within a species ... but this is a very different concept from

the accepted notion of evolution which I reject entirely as an outdated,

totally unworkable solution. The march of life toward consciousness is

guided intelligently ... either it is a 'natural law' encoded within the micro-

structure of creation or works through a constant stream of 'updated information'

through the 'ether' by some undiscovered process.

[Kinpa]

Charrington:

Yep ... ancient man and his relation to modern man is a big gray area. It's hard to imagine a world with different strains of humans who may or may not have been biologically compatible ... but apparently that was the situation. The Neanderthals were a very successful breed, especially in Northern Europe I believe, during the ice age.

Different researchers report differing results from DNA extracted from bones ... here's a quote from the link above:

"In 2009, a first draft of the Neandertal genome was completed.  It consists of 60% of their approximately 3 billion DNA base units.  They were sequenced mostly from bones found in Vindija Cave in Croatia.  Based on this information, Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany concluded that the Neandertal and modern human genomes share 99.5-99.9% of their base unit  sequences.  He estimated that the Neandertal line began to diverge from ours by about 800,000 years ago and that we were "genetically distinct" by 300,000 years ago.  Further analysis of the Vindija Cave Neandertal DNA by Richard Green of the University of California, Santa Cruz led him to announce in 2010 that 1-4% of the DNA in modern Europeans and Asians came from Neandertals.  Therefore, he suggested that there must have been at least a small amount of interbreeding between modern humans and Neandertals around 80-50,000 years ago.  This most likely occurred in Southwest Asia, shortly after modern humans migrated out of Africa.  This would account for the lack of Neandertal DNA markers in African populations today. "



Reconstruction of a
late Neandertal child's
appearance based
on skeletal material
found in Gibraltar


I'm sorry if I derailed the thread!

yeah, a caveman wouldnt think she was worth breeding with...not exactly apelike in appearance...hormones are hormones, if cavemen and neanderthals coexisted in the very same cave, it is quite likely that they interbred...it may not be a popular theory, but it cant be wiped away so easily...