Do you believe Satan is real?

[independentWV]

I didn't know you had a sense of humor WV - That was funny.

It is not incorrect to say that a major segment of today's modern institutions exist, NOT because of honest study and concern for the truth in the respective fields, but because Rockefeller's money was available at their inception to fund incredible PR campaigns, establish "professional" publications and societies, steam roller over any competition (regardless of their legitimacy or value), and continue selling the ideas until accepted and institutionalized within the basic fabric of society. This is the true origin of most of modern medicine, psychology, psychiatry, sociology, banking, education, educational research foundations, politics, political research foundations, and on and on. Scary, huh?

Did you not watch Endgame?

[charrington]

It is not incorrect to say that a major segment of today's modern institutions exist, NOT because of honest study and concern for the truth in the respective fields, but because Rockefeller's money was available at their inception to fund incredible PR campaigns, establish "professional" publications and societies, steam roller over any competition (regardless of their legitimacy or value), and continue selling the ideas until accepted and institutionalized within the basic fabric of society. This is the true origin of most of modern medicine, psychology, psychiatry, sociology, banking, education, educational research foundations, politics, political research foundations, and on and on. Scary, huh?

Did you not watch Endgame?

Oh I've been saying similar things for a long time -- I can't think of anything you can't include - what you see today isn't real - it's a paid for. Were hundreds of years behind where we should be.

[tennis shoe]

In essence , Ive said all that I need to say , which is , has and always will be : There are no words texts, codecies , poetry , doctrines , dogmas , bound books , language ,  words , symbols , figures , expressions....that will ever describe what God is , what love is , or what any subjective personal experience is better than to experience these things for ones self.

I can understand where KT is coming from as I used to feel the same way.  If you would have asked me years ago, I would have said the same things.  Funny thing is, in my case, experience is what led me to believe in the validity of the Bible.  I do not “believe” Satan is real, I know for a fact that he is and is exactly as Jesus describes him in the book. 

KT, you’ve got a lot of heart. And if you want to experience God, know what He thinks, know how he feels, it’s there for the asking.  All anyone has to do is ask Him for it.  I’ve found that most people in mainline churches don’t really want to know and are pretty content with religion which is fine if that’s where they’re at.  But I’m here to say that it can go much deeper than that for anyone who wants it  The experience of being personally touched by God through Christ is so deep and so profound that it can change one’s life forever

[charrington]

I can understand where KT is coming from as I used to feel the same way.  If you would have asked me years ago, I would have said the same things.  Funny thing is, in my case, experience is what led me to believe in the validity of the Bible.  I do not “believe” Satan is real, I know for a fact that he is and is exactly as Jesus describes him in the book. 

KT, you’ve got a lot of heart. And if you want to experience God, know what He thinks, know how he feels, it’s there for the asking.  All anyone has to do is ask Him for it.  I’ve found that most people in mainline churches don’t really want to know and are pretty content with religion which is fine if that’s where they’re at.  But I’m here to say that it can go much deeper than that for anyone who wants it  The experience of being personally touched by God through Christ is so deep and so profound that it can change one’s life forever

Same here, I've been there in a big way...

[Novus Ordo]

quote:

If you had been born in, India you would be saying the same thing about lord Krishna and lord Shiva.
If you had been born in, Afghanistan you would be saying the same thing about Allah.
If you had been born in, Viking Norway you would be saying the same thing about Votan.
If you had been born in, Olympian Greece you would be saying the same thing about Jeus and Apollo.


The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination.

[Kilgore Trout]

I can understand where KT is coming from as I used to feel the same way.  If you would have asked me years ago, I would have said the same things.  Funny thing is, in my case, experience is what led me to believe in the validity of the Bible.  I do not “believe” Satan is real, I know for a fact that he is and is exactly as Jesus describes him in the book. 

KT, you’ve got a lot of heart. And if you want to experience God, know what He thinks, know how he feels, it’s there for the asking.  All anyone has to do is ask Him for it.  I’ve found that most people in mainline churches don’t really want to know and are pretty content with religion which is fine if that’s where they’re at.  But I’m here to say that it can go much deeper than that for anyone who wants it  The experience of being personally touched by God through Christ is so deep and so profound that it can change one’s life forever

There was a time in my life that I did read the bible with an open heart , I just couldn't fully find myslef in those words. I do not reject the things that I learned that actually did resonate , but I had to move on. I find it much like traveling , I might happen upon a source or something on my travels , for a time I will look at it , learn from it or what have you , but I must put it down if I am going to continue my journey , it does not benift me to stop the journey when I come upon something on the road. I'll pick it up learn what I can but I must be lite/light for my travels , lest I be weighed down.  Thanks.

[feeditup]

 This dude here talks about giants, not saying he is a credible source because i do not think he is. But he has some studies at the end that sounds prity daming

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=27101320524

[tennis shoe]

There was a time in my life that I did read the bible with an open heart , I just couldn't fully find myslef in those words. I do not reject the things that I learned that actually did resonate , but I had to move on. I find it much like traveling , I might happen upon a source or something on my travels , for a time I will look at it , learn from it or what have you , but I must put it down if I am going to continue my journey , it does not benift me to stop the journey when I come upon something on the road. I'll pick it up learn what I can but I must be lite/light for my travels , lest I be weighed down.  Thanks.

The Bible still plays an important part in my journey.  There have been times when I also have had to put it down due to misusing the words within and causing myself harm.  I spent time striving for perfection trying to live up to God’s standards only to find myself failing at it repeatedly. Interesting that this notion came from religious people in churches.  That’s when it dawned on me that it is enough to be on the journey.  In the past, since I was unable to pull myself out of the pit and had to depend on Christ, the same holds true today.  My human wisdom, knowledge, and foresight of the ramifications and ripple effects of my human decisions are insufficient to prevent causing harm to others and myself. Thus I have to rely on Him to guide me even more.  When I am weak, He is strong.

Just as I have been free to follow my path based on choices, evidence, and experience, so you must be free to follow yours.

The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination.

Indeed the human mind is quite a delicate and beautiful creation.  And there are non-human entities that wish to exploit it and destroy it.  These parasites feed off of human lives because they have no life within themselves.  The illusion of power is given to humans that cooperate with these entities.

[charrington]

quote:

If you had been born in, India you would be saying the same thing about lord Krishna and lord Shiva.
If you had been born in, Afghanistan you would be saying the same thing about Allah.
If you had been born in, Viking Norway you would be saying the same thing about Votan.
If you had been born in, Olympian Greece you would be saying the same thing about Jeus and Apollo.


The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination.

Dr. Seuss?

[charrington]

This dude here talks about giants, not saying he is a credible source because i do not think he is. But he has some studies at the end that sounds prity daming

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=27101320524

Nephilim were very large and in fact were giants. The issue I think they had was over the meaning of the word Nephilim, not that they existed.

[charrington]

The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination.

Indeed the human mind is quite a delicate and beautiful creation.  And there are non-human entities that wish to exploit it and destroy it.  These parasites feed off of human lives because they have no life within themselves.  The illusion of power is given to humans that cooperate with these entities.

No no you don't understand that only applies to you not him tennis

[Novus Ordo]

Indeed the human mind is quite a delicate and beautiful evolution.

[Novus Ordo]

Dr. Seuss?

You see that’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la La LA" again because you can’t deal with the fact that your god would be a different god if you were born somewhere else in the world.
Unfortunately personal experiences are impossible to confirm, and thus don't count as objective evidence. They just aren't scientific proof.

[charrington]

You see that’s just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la La LA" again because you can’t deal with the fact that your god would be a different god if you were born somewhere else in the world.

Got some statistics on that? Seriously -- you think people in Norway worship Thor? (Dr. Seuss) Get it?

Unfortunately personal experiences are impossible to confirm, and thus don't count as objective evidence. They just aren't scientific proof.

A. You don't know where I was born. My family isn't from the USA.
B.There are Christians in all countries EVEN North Korea - what a ridiculous statement to make.
C. I'm just curious are you from the U.K. , Ireland or that neck of the EU?

[Novus Ordo]

Got some statistics on that? Seriously -- you think people in Norway worship Thor? (Dr. Seuss) Get it?
A. You don't know where I was born. My family isn't from the USA.
B.There are Christians in all countries EVEN North Korea - what a ridiculous statement to make.
C. I'm just curious are you from the U.K. , Ireland or that neck of the EU?

Did you miss out the word ‘Viking’ on purpose?
Do you honestly think you’ve addressed the point I was making?

I’ll give you an ‘E’ for effort
And a ‘F’ for FAIL

[Kilgore Trout]

quote:

If you had been born in, India you would be saying the same thing about lord Krishna and lord Shiva.
If you had been born in, Afghanistan you would be saying the same thing about Allah.
If you had been born in, Viking Norway you would be saying the same thing about Votan.
If you had been born in, Olympian Greece you would be saying the same thing about Jeus and Apollo.


The human mind is extremely susceptible to hallucination.

I have to agree , it seems in western culture we think (generally) that our views are the "be all end all" on every issue.

[charrington]

Did you miss out the word ‘Viking’ on purpose?
Do you honestly think you’ve addressed the point I was making?

I’ll give ‘E’ for effort
And
‘F’ for FAIL

Absolutely -- it's a retarded comment.

Thor was a Viking God - Votan's story originated in Mexico not Norway. Maybe you shouldn't be the one doing the grading

[charrington]

I have to agree , it seems in western culture we think (generally) that our views are the "be all end all" on every issue.

Hey Kilgore you ever see this?

  New Age Infiltration Exposed

I think this might be a newer version not sure.

[Novus Ordo]

“That’s it mate you keep dodging the point”

[charrington]

“That’s it mate you keep dodging the point”

Maybe you should go back and read again. Brick.

[Novus Ordo]

Sorry about the spelling mistake I meant Wotan, which is pronounced ‘Votan’

Now would you like to address the actual point I was making?

[charrington]

Sorry about the spelling mistake I meant Wotan, which is pronounced ‘Votan’

Good thing for that link eh?

Now would you like to address the actual point I was making?

I have - look carefully -


Mind answering mine?

[Novus Ordo]

The only thing you have achieved is making yourself look like a childish hypercritical 'brick'
Mr Christian.

[Kilgore Trout]

Hey Kilgore you ever see this?

  New Age Infiltration Exposed

I think this might be a newer version not sure.

I don't really concern myself with such concepts as "new age" , It seems that what people consider new age is actually far older than the current religious practices. It maters not , I am a human being and have the liberty to choose what God's relationship with me is. No problem , it also seems that opinons in general are lacking , I mean you believe what you want , others will believe what they want , as it should be , liberty to reign. You might have everything you percieve as truth , I might totally disagree , and I have everyhting I believe is true and vice versa. These beliefs are the artifacts of who we are , our own personal mythologies.

[Kinpa]

That's the same guy that tried to pull off the Jesus family tomb Discovery Hoax -- only Geraldo's Capone's Vault was a bigger flop. I don't think anyone would be quoting him as an expert on much these days.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/feb/07022601.html

he made no such claim, he has an episode of his show that covers that issue too, and he shows evidence going both ways,for and against, which means he doesnt claim to have a definitive answer...also, i didnt claim him as an expert on anything, i said that on his show,he interviewed an israeli archaeologist, who found a cave system in israel, that had remains of both humans and neanderthal from the same time period, and this guy was the one who claimed that they not only lived in the cave together, but also that they interbred, simcha jacobovici was simply the host of the show, the interviewer, so dont present these things as if you are an expert on anything, you are not, and dont make false claims either as you did here, the man's view may not be universally accepted, but that is fine, all areas of science are exactly the same way, people argue differing points of view, and each may well believe their view to be the correct one, but it isnt proven, and until the proof is available, not everyone agrees...

[Kinpa]

Nephilim were very large and in fact were giants. The issue I think they had was over the meaning of the word Nephilim, not that they existed.

ill give you points for this one, because this is true, more accurately, we were arguing (as all the etymologists in the world do to this very day) which translation is correct, and beyond a shadow of a doubt, BOTH are correct, there is a degree of evidence for BOTH translations, but without the writer of that book of the bible present to be asked which interpretation he meant, no one will ever actually know...it all comes down to belief, which is a far cry from knowing...

[charrington]

The only thing you have achieved is making yourself look like a childish hypercritical 'brick'
Mr Christian.

Coming from Mr. I give grades F fail? - That's rich...

The point is Novus no one is trying to hurt your feelings but it would be nice if you considered others and spoke respectfully to them instead of name calling? Nutter, extremist etc..

You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.

Like that is mature? Like that is going to get you into a good conversation about anything? But you don't see that as the same as when someone hits you back with the same thing. Now that is hypocritical.

If you want to stop calling people names because they don't believe like you do and have a conversation about something legitimate then do it.  

[charrington]

I don't really concern myself with such concepts as "new age" , It seems that what people consider new age is actually far older than the current religious practices. It maters not , I am a human being and have the liberty to choose what God's relationship with me is. No problem , it also seems that opinons in general are lacking , I mean you believe what you want , others will believe what they want , as it should be , liberty to reign. You might have everything you percieve as truth , I might totally disagree , and I have everyhting I believe is true and vice versa. These beliefs are the artifacts of who we are , our own personal mythologies.

I thought you might like it because they have the same beliefs.

[Kilgore Trout]

I thought you might like it because they have the same beliefs.

Really? what sort of beliefs? Belief in God and a personal relationship based on the blessed experiences God has allowed into their hearts?

[charrington]

ill give you points for this one, because this is true, more accurately, we were arguing (as all the etymologists in the world do to this very day) which translation is correct, and beyond a shadow of a doubt, BOTH are correct, there is a degree of evidence for BOTH translations, but without the writer of that book of the bible present to be asked which interpretation he meant, no one will ever actually know...it all comes down to belief, which is a far cry from knowing...

It might be less Important on what the name means except for the fact that people seem to think that the bible is not interpretable and will find reason to conjure alternative meanings to fit their needs.

The closest I could find to what you said is they were called (Neph′i·lim) [Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down].

I think what Dok was saying about Nephilim was logically correct - they were indeed offspring not the fallen angels themselves. Based on Bible evidence this is accurate.

I don't think you can logically argue that point and win based on an illogical fallacy - know what I mean? People sometimes use that to shift the burden of proof.

[Novus Ordo]

Coming from Mr. I give grades F fail? - That's rich...

The point is Novus no one is trying to hurt your feelings but it would be nice if you considered others and spoke respectfully to them instead of name calling? Nutter, extremist etc..

Like that is mature? Like that is going to get you into a good conversation about anything? But you don't see that as the same as when someone hits you back with the same thing. Now that is hypocritical.

If you want to stop calling people names because they don't believe like you do and have a conversation about something legitimate then do it.  

You shouldn’t take things so personally Charrington I was merely pointing the generalisation, people perceive those who take the Bible/Koran ect literally word for word are a bit nutty or extremist.
Their not taken seriously.
Whether they want to blow themselves up or  stand on a street corner with a sign saying God hates fags.
Their not taken seriously.
I wont press you any further on the issue at hand because I know it can not be agued, if you were born into a Muslim family you would be spouting all things Allah.  

[charrington]

Really? what sort of beliefs? Belief in God and a personal relationship based on the blessed experiences God has allowed into their hearts?

In part yes. Watch it.

[charrington]

You shouldn’t take things so personally Charrington I was merely pointing the generalisation, people perceive those who take the Bible/Koran ect literally word for word are a bit nutty or extremist.
Their not taken seriously.
Whether they want to blow themselves up or  stand on a street corner with a sign saying God hates fags.
Their not taken seriously.
I wont press you any further on the issue at hand because I know it can not be agued, if you were born into a Muslim family you would be spouting all things Allah.  

Honestly I don't -- I'm not at all offended by things like that but when someone does that to me I do it back till they see what's happening and a normal conversation can resume.

But to be pointed not all Christians believe that the bible is literal word for word - and those that do I wont say that are nutters but maybe should think that over more,  but I understand what you are saying.

I don't agree with you synopsis completely but I think what you say over all tends to be the norm. Religion seems to be inherited somewhat, passed down. Although there are many (from all faiths) that have abandoned their "born" faith and assimilated other beliefs. I just don't like blanket statements because it's almost like saying all blacks are the same or all Mexicans are bad etc... Not all Christians are the same or believe the same things.

Peace.

[charrington]

he made no such claim, he has an episode of his show that covers that issue too, and he shows evidence going both ways,for and against, which means he doesnt claim to have a definitive answer

What I thought was interesting was he produced it knowing it was bogus - all about the money baby.

...also, i didnt claim him as an expert on anything,

That's comforting because he's obviously not

i said that on his show,he interviewed an israeli archaeologist, who found a cave system in israel, that had remains of both humans and neanderthal from the same time period, and this guy was the one who claimed that they not only lived in the cave together, but also that they interbred, simcha jacobovici was simply the host of the show, the interviewer, so dont present these things as if you are an expert on anything,

I don't know why but that sounds funny coming from you. It's other experts that say he's a nutter. (tips hat to Novus)

you are not, and dont make false claims either as you did here, the man's view may not be universally accepted, but that is fine, all areas of science are exactly the same way, people argue differing points of view, and each may well believe their view to be the correct one, but it isnt proven, and until the proof is available, not everyone agrees...

ahh the Carl Sagan argument "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" that's odd because I seem to remember you saying that it was a "fact" that neanderthals "banged" Homo sapiens -- no .. wait yes "banged". etc.. Wasn't that you that said that Kinpa?

[Kinpa]

your post is ALL f'd up..are you talking to yourself again?

[Rebelitarian]

What gets me that even if Satan or the whole Devil population is real why is it anyone possessed never goes on to become World Dictator ??

Usually they sit in bed and curse. vomit and pee...

Ususally it is people who have no demonic possession who are the most evil ?

Didn't Hitler want to get back at the Jews for being the Christ killers ?

Did Stalin, Mao or Pol-Pot get into any occult practices ??

Even if they did they went on to be kakistocrats by their own volition hence God keeping his promise of freewill.

It is always said that a Satanist will cause World War 3 but will it ?

I mean the NWO is into Molech worship ?  Even if Molech communicates with them they still are using their free will to enagage in any evil activity.

It seems to me the weak willed only ever get caught up is Satanism and all it ever leads to is ritualistic murders on a small scale.
A terrible thing don't get me wrong but sometimes the greatest of evils are committed in the pursuit of the greatest of nobilities.

[Kilgore Trout]

In part yes. Watch it.

I think I've seen it , is this the one about gurus and such? if so , there is no relation to my understanding and beliefs , my views are based on the experience of the individual , it really can;t be taught to another , there is no need for spiritual masters , there is only the recognition of ones self as a child of God. How you can find something objectionable in my views is astonishing to me , because basically morally , I am very similar in practive as you , except that I don't choose to be dependant upon the idea that "i" is something so significant as to enter an already perfect eternity.

[Novus Ordo]

Honestly I don't -- I'm not at all offended by things like that but when someone does that to me I do it back till they see what's happening and a normal conversation can resume.

But to be pointed not all Christians believe that the bible is literal word for word - and those that do I wont say that are nutters but maybe should think that over more,  but I understand what you are saying.

I don't agree with you synopsis completely but I think what you say over all tends to be the norm. Religion seems to be inherited somewhat, passed down. Although there are many (from all faiths) that have abandoned their "born" faith and assimilated other beliefs. I just don't like blanket statements because it's almost like saying all blacks are the same or all Mexicans are bad etc... Not all Christians are the same or believe the same things.

Peace.

I’m not dammed to hell for eternity if I don’t believe the same as you then?

[charrington]

I’m not dammed to hell for eternity if I don’t believe the same as you then?

hell no

[Novus Ordo]

Ho……..
Well that’s ok then
To be honest I wasn’t expecting that!
It must be our mate Doc that does.
To be honest I love you all! I’d much rather spend my time debating this stuff than talking about whether or not Gillian really did faint?