Do you believe Satan is real?

[Kinpa]

Its translated properly.

You tell me. Its your claim. I didnt know i had to explain your beleifs to you. Nephilim has very specific characteristics that the neanderthals did not have.

its NOT translated properly by any means...it is translated as giants, it doesnt mean giants at all, but strangely, there WERE giants there, neanderthal man, and they co-habitated with humans for centuries...

[Dok]

you cant watch it for free, you'd have to download  the torrent to watch it, if youre willing to do that, i can see no problem with your being able to view it...

if you can find it online ill watch it. im not downloading the torrent for it. not until after we see what s going to happen with the new internet restrictions and crack down thats coming.


any way, you still didnt answer the question.

[Dok]

its NOT translated properly by any means...it is translated as giants, it doesnt mean giants at all, but strangely, there WERE giants there, neanderthal man, and they co-habitated with humans for centuries...

uhm, it does mean giants. can you show me documented proof where it dosent?

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

[wembley87]

Another Bible thread taking over the Forum .......... Jeez 

[Kinpa]

uhm, it does mean giants. can you show me documented proof where it dosent?

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

it means fallen ones...do the research, im not a christian anyways, so i dont personally care one bit, it makes no difference to me...obviously all the experts dont agree, and since youre too worried about big brother to download and watch, i dont know what to tell you, unless you'd like me to download it for you, because i have no fear about any restrictions...

[Dok]

it means fallen ones...do the research, im not a christian anyways, so i dont personally care one bit, it makes no difference to me...obviously all the experts dont agree, and since youre too worried about big brother to download and watch, i dont know what to tell you, unless you'd like me to download it for you, because i have no fear about any restrictions...

it means fallen ones...do the research

uhm, no it dosent. that is why i have provided research material for you.  http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

[independentWV]

you cant watch it for free, you'd have to download  the torrent to watch it, if youre willing to do that, i can see no problem with your being able to view it...

Thanks for the link interesting subject.

The book of Enoch, and others contain the complete story of what happened in the antediluvian (pre-flood) world. A recent dead-sea scroll find and translation, "the Book of Giants," also contains this story in great detail.

[Kinpa]

uhm, no it dosent. that is why i have provided research material for you.  http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

um, yes, it does, and it is still argued over, which is significant enough proof that your theory is not entirely correct...here are some links, and they all agree that no one agrees to the meaning of the word, therefore, you cant win this one man, there is no consensus on the meaning of the word, there is no meaning that everyone accepts, on either side of the fence...


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nephilim&searchmode=none
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Nephilim.html
"It is not clear where the name Nephilim comes from. There are a few possibilities, and scholars argue about the likelihood of each of them. First of all, the word nephilim is a plural and the single form, npl (npl), does not occur in the Bible (which by itself is not at all unusual). In another context, however, the word npl (nepel 1392a) means untimely birth or abortion. It comes from the verb npl (napal 1392), fall, lie down, be cast down, fail. The plural word Nephilim means 'fallen ones,' mostly by the sword, and occurs in Joshua 8:25, Judges 20:46, 2 Kings 25:11, Psalm 145:14, Jeremiah 39:9, 52:15, Ezekiel 32:22 and 24."
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html
"Nephilim" is a Hebrew word translated in the Authorized King James version as "giants." "There were giants in the earth in those days" (Genesis 6:4). It is true that they were giants in more senses than one. However, the word Nephilim does not mean "giants." It comes from the root "naphal," meaning "fallen ones," and most modern versions of the Bible have left the word "Nephilim" untranslated.
 now this one agrees more with YOUR belief, that the KJV is the right one,but i add this only to show BOTH sides of the argument, which i notice, you didnt want to show...
http://www.manalore.com/the-nephilim-in-the-book-of-giants.html
read the WHOLE thing, not just the parts you agree with, if you cant do that, then you cant argue anything as being the truth, because you wont face the challenge of a belief that is different from your own, and if that is your choice, so be it, but you wont be able to argue anything other than your own OPINION...
"

[Kinpa]

Thanks for the link interesting subject.

The book of Enoch, and others contain the complete story of what happened in the antediluvian (pre-flood) world. A recent dead-sea scroll find and translation, "the Book of Giants," also contains this story in great detail.

that show is called the Naked Archaeologist-the Giants of Genesis episode, if you'd care to find the torrent and download it, and it was an interesting episode...

[Dok]

um, yes, it does, and it is still argued over, which is significant enough proof that your theory is not entirely correct...here are some links, and they all agree that no one agrees to the meaning of the word, therefore, you cant win this one man, there is no consensus on the meaning of the word, there is no meaning that everyone accepts, on either side of the fence...


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=nephilim&searchmode=none
http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Nephilim.html
"It is not clear where the name Nephilim comes from. There are a few possibilities, and scholars argue about the likelihood of each of them. First of all, the word nephilim is a plural and the single form, npl (npl), does not occur in the Bible (which by itself is not at all unusual). In another context, however, the word npl (nepel 1392a) means untimely birth or abortion. It comes from the verb npl (napal 1392), fall, lie down, be cast down, fail. The plural word Nephilim means 'fallen ones,' mostly by the sword, and occurs in Joshua 8:25, Judges 20:46, 2 Kings 25:11, Psalm 145:14, Jeremiah 39:9, 52:15, Ezekiel 32:22 and 24."
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html
"Nephilim" is a Hebrew word translated in the Authorized King James version as "giants." "There were giants in the earth in those days" (Genesis 6:4). It is true that they were giants in more senses than one. However, the word Nephilim does not mean "giants." It comes from the root "naphal," meaning "fallen ones," and most modern versions of the Bible have left the word "Nephilim" untranslated.
 now this one agrees more with YOUR belief, that the KJV is the right one,but i add this only to show BOTH sides of the argument, which i notice, you didnt want to show...
http://www.manalore.com/the-nephilim-in-the-book-of-giants.html
read the WHOLE thing, not just the parts you agree with, if you cant do that, then you cant argue anything as being the truth, because you wont face the challenge of a belief that is different from your own, and if that is your choice, so be it, but you wont be able to argue anything other than your own OPINION...
"

It’s a case of one scholar parroting what the scholar before him or her has said, and so on down the line.

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

[Dok]

you ah, still havent showed how the neanderthals were the nephilim. 

[Kinpa]

you ah, still havent showed how the neanderthals were the nephilim. 

so what? watch some tv lol....you still havent shown that nephilim means giants either...check your service provider and get history channel international and you can watch the show i spoke of, and, by the way, it isnt my claim, it's Simcha Jacobovici's claim, why dont you ask him??

[Dok]

so what? watch some tv lol....you still havent shown that nephilim means giants either...check your service provider and get history channel international and you can watch the show i spoke of, and, by the way, it isnt my claim, it's Simcha Jacobovici's claim, why dont you ask him??

Ive made my claim.

[Kinpa]

Ive made my claim.

thats fine, as long as you understand that it is FAR from an agreed upon claim, in fact, it makes NO difference which side youre on, all will simply NOT agree with you...

[Dok]

thats fine, as long as you understand that it is FAR from an agreed upon claim, in fact, it makes NO difference which side youre on, all will simply NOT agree with you...

what ever. could you make your claim that the neanderthals were the nephilim please.

[independentWV]

what ever. could you make your claim that the neanderthals were the nephilim please.

One source with no outside review  

There are many scriptures discussing demons for example

Mark 5:18 And when he was come into the ship, he that previously had the DEMON prayed him that he might be with him
Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the DEMON OUT of her daughter.
Mark 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the DEMON is gone OUT of thy daughter.
Mark 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the DEMON gone OUT, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
Luke 11:14 And he was casting OUT a DEMON, and it was DUMB. And it came to pass, when the DEMON was gone OUT, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
Deut 32:17 They sacrificed unto DEMONS, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not

and I could go on .....what is your opinion of these?

[Dok]

One source with no outside review  

There are many scriptures discussing demons for example

Mark 5:18 And when he was come into the ship, he that previously had the DEMON prayed him that he might be with him
Mark 7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the DEMON OUT of her daughter.
Mark 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the DEMON is gone OUT of thy daughter.
Mark 7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the DEMON gone OUT, and her daughter laid upon the bed.
Luke 11:14 And he was casting OUT a DEMON, and it was DUMB. And it came to pass, when the DEMON was gone OUT, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
Deut 32:17 They sacrificed unto DEMONS, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not

and I could go on .....what is your opinion of these?

i thought you did exorcisms and all. you don't believe in spiritual beings?

[Kinpa]

what ever. could you make your claim that the neanderthals were the nephilim please.

no, i cant, it was never my claim it's Simcha Jacobovici's claim, why dont you ask him??
what?? he wont talk to you? then download the episode, or simply admit that you cant get all the evidence on the issue, it's not my problem...

[Dok]

no, i cant, it was never my claim it's Simcha Jacobovici's claim, why dont you ask him??
what?? he wont talk to you? then download the episode, or simply admit that you cant get all the evidence on the issue, it's not my problem...

uhm, YOU made the claim. You posted it as a fact.

[Dok]

See right here;

i bet no one wants to hear that the Nephilim were actually neanderthal man lol, they cohabitated and interbred with homo sapiens in Isreal...it must be fun to be able to ignore historical fact for the preference of your own fables and mythology 

you make the claim; historical fact , well lets see it.

[Kinpa]

See right here;



you make the claim; historical fact , well lets see it.

you made the claim about historical fact yourself, but upon closer inspection it is anything BUT fact, it is heavily debated...right back atcha...the historical fact i claimed is, that humans and neanderthals co existed and probably interbred...and it is also highly likely that the mistranslation of the term nephilim had something to do with that fact...thats the only way YOUR favored translation makes ANY sense...if there were "giants" in those days, the evidence points towards neanderthal man being said giant, and since neanderthals coexisted in the very same caves along side humans, well, there's your mating with the daughters of man...not that i believe the neanderthal were the sons of God, but again, im not even remotely a christian, i simply dont care, YOU do...

[Kinpa]

See right here;



you make the claim; historical fact , well lets see it.

download it and you can see it, or, call your cable provider and get the channel and you can see it twice a day...otherwise, tough luck, you arent in on the debate by far, you wont even make an attempt to view the evidnce...not my problem, ive seen it several times...

[Dok]

you made the claim about historical fact yourself, but upon closer inspection it is anything BUT fact, it is heavily debated...right back atcha...the historical fact i claimed is, that humans and neanderthals co existed and probably interbred...and it is also highly likely that the mistranslation of the term nephilim had something to do with that fact...thats the only way YOUR favored translation makes ANY sense...if there were "giants" in those days, the evidence points towards neanderthal man being said giant, and since neanderthals coexisted in the very same caves along side humans, well, there's your mating with the daughters of man...not that i believe the neanderthal were the sons of God, but again, im not even remotely a christian, i simply dont care, YOU do...

again nephilim means giant. Heiser is an expert on the language and grammer of the ancient languages. nephilim is used else where in the Bible and other ancient writings, each time talking about how they were giants, not the fallen angels or watchers. They were the offspring, so how could they be fallen or from heaven fell when they were the offspring. Its not ahrd to understand, you can get that conclussion from any version you use. It takes a simple understanding and the ability to read. can you do that? so far you havent shown that ability.

[Dok]

download it and you can see it, or, call your cable provider and get the channel and you can see it twice a day...otherwise, tough luck, you arent in on the debate by far, you wont even make an attempt to view the evidnce...not my problem, ive seen it several times...

I have the channel, ill keep an eye out for it.

[charrington]

Yes as I said , that was out of frustration , becuase to me Satan is a scapeGOAT fairytale. And you continue to refer to that as if you've never heard this : "When the devil reminds of you of your past , remind him of his future"

What you have is the washed and Constantinian sanctioned brand of "Christianity" , have you heard of the others who followed Christ's teachings before they were killed by Constantine? This has nothing to do either with Catholics because your protestantism is Catholic lite.

You say "the bible says" , which to me further reduces your understanding of God. That's fine though , you believe in the words of men and surrogate their experiences for your own , I choose to know God through my own experience , thanks.

You have faith in the bible being God's word , I do not. That is well enough for me.

Well I think we could talk about Historic evidence of Bible prophecy, if you'd like to start another thread but somehow I don't think that matters to you.

What you have is the washed and Constantinian sanctioned brand of "Christianity" , have you heard of the others who followed Christ's teachings before they were killed by Constantine?

All I'm asking you to do is back this up with something other then your words and lets have a legitimate look at it.

You say "the bible says" , which to me further reduces your understanding of God.

And you can see how odd that sound to me - God gives us a book to understand him and you reject it and say it's limiting.

So really unless you have something to back what you think or feel - whats left to say?

[Kinpa]

I have the channel, ill keep an eye out for it.

it's on in the morning,at 11am then again in the early evening at 5pm, the episode is called "the Giants of Genesis" from his site comes this description of the episode: "The Giants of Genesis""Genesis 6:4 says: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Who were these giants? In this episode, the Naked Archaeologist quests after Goliath of Gath, the mighty King Og and other towering figures from the Old Testament." ...im not finding a listing of that episode being shown in the next two weeks, but also look out for the episode about the real Mt. Sinai...he concludes that the supposed place is completely wrong, backed up by bible verse, and finds a spot that fits all of the description found in the bible, though he has to sneak a camera in, its actually quite interesting..."Eps. #25 and #26: Where is The Real Mount Sinai?
For thousands of years people have wondered which peak in the Sinai Peninsula is the legendary mountain where Moses is supposed to have received the 10 commandments.

http://www.visiontv.ca/NakedArchaeologist/episodes.htm
http://www.historyinternational.com/
http://www.historyinternational.com/nakedarchaeologist/?page=guide

[Dok]

it's on in the morning,at 11am then again in the early evening at 5pm, the episode is called "the Giants of Genesis" from his site comes this description of the episode: "The Giants of Genesis""Genesis 6:4 says: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Who were these giants? In this episode, the Naked Archaeologist quests after Goliath of Gath, the mighty King Og and other towering figures from the Old Testament." ...im not finding a listing of that episode being shown in the next two weeks, but also look out for the episode about the real Mt. Sinai...he concludes that the supposed place is completely wrong, backed up by bible verse, and finds a spot that fits all of the description found in the bible, though he has to sneak a camera in, its actually quite interesting..."Eps. #25 and #26: Where is The Real Mount Sinai?
For thousands of years people have wondered which peak in the Sinai Peninsula is the legendary mountain where Moses is supposed to have received the 10 commandments.

http://www.visiontv.ca/NakedArchaeologist/episodes.htm
http://www.historyinternational.com/
http://www.historyinternational.com/nakedarchaeologist/?page=guide

ya its not on, so i looked at some stuff online, interesting, to say the least. Ill have to look into it some more though.

The real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.

The Real Mt. Sinai

[Kinpa]

ya its not on, so i looked at some stuff online, interesting, to say the least. Ill have to look into it some more though.

The real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.

The Real Mt. Sinai

yes it is, but it is not necessarily that one...he makes quite a good case for his explanation...its worth watching...

[Kinpa]

ya its not on, so i looked at some stuff online, interesting, to say the least. Ill have to look into it some more though.

The real Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.

The Real Mt. Sinai

hey, that link is a japanese cartoon, that aint no Mt. Sinai...

[Kilgore Trout]

Well I think we could talk about Historic evidence of Bible prophecy, if you'd like to start another thread but somehow I don't think that matters to you.

All I'm asking you to do is back this up with something other then your words and lets have a legitimate look at it.

And you can see how odd that sound to me - God gives us a book to understand him and you reject it and say it's limiting.

So really unless you have something to back what you think or feel - whats left to say?

In essence , Ive said all that I need to say , which is , has and always will be : There are no words texts, codecies , poetry , doctrines , dogmas , bound books , language ,  words , symbols , figures , expressions....that will ever describe what God is , what love is , or what any subjective personal experience is better than to experience these things for ones self.

[Dok]

hey, that link is a japanese cartoon, that aint no Mt. Sinai...

fixed,   not to sure what happened there.

[Dok]

yes it is, but it is not necessarily that one...he makes quite a good case for his explanation...its worth watching...

if memory serves, that guy did the Exodus decoded special. If so he had Mt. Sinai way wrong.

[Kinpa]

if memory serves, that guy did the Exodus decoded special. If so he had Mt. Sinai way wrong.

what? you dont like the natural scientific explanation as to how the red sea was parted? you wont like him then, because he understands that the bible was written by men, and not at all inspired men of God, and he backs that up with proof, not delusion, ahh well, so much for the actual truth lol...but what did i expect from a person that believes a website proves the KJV as the only accurate translation? not much i suppose...good luck with that belief thing,but its nothing like knowingness, not even remotely, and wait till you find out the reward for that lmao...

[Dok]

what? you dont like the natural scientific explanation as to how the red sea was parted? you wont like him then, because he understands that the bible was written by men, and not at all inspired men of God, and he backs that up with proof, not delusion, ahh well, so much for the actual truth lol...but what did i expect from a person that believes a website proves the KJV as the only accurate translation? not much i suppose...good luck with that belief thing,but its nothing like knowingness, not even remotely, and wait till you find out the reward for that lmao...

uhm, no as it doesn't fit with the Biblical record. But it is always good when gnostic s and atheists try to prove away one of Gods miracles any way they can. That just shows that they know it happened. 

and wait till you find out the reward for that

[charrington]

Throughout history, Christianity twists and turns to fit other people’s version of events for no more aim but to hold power. The Catholics were on the news this morning about now being ok about condoms.
The vase majority of Christians and Christian clergy accept that if you take it literary word for word
You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve heard the old chestnut “no your reading it wrong” “It doesn’t mean that”, well, yes it does mean that and no I’m not reading it wrong both books are bloodthirsty barbaric attempts to frighten the shite out of you if you persist in raping and pillaging each other.
Mass control of the feeble mind to create order from chaos.

Yeah, I agree, false religion has done a lot to damage Christianity. I don't take the bible completely literally personally.

well, yes it does mean that and no I’m not reading it wrong both books are bloodthirsty barbaric.

Mean what? - lets hear your version. Everything is run by fear. Fear of having or not having - that's life take it or leave it. That's the best you'll get in this world. You want more and not have to fear or worry? Look into the what the Bible really says instead of making stuff up.

[charrington]

so what? watch some tv lol....you still havent shown that nephilim means giants either...check your service provider and get history channel international and you can watch the show i spoke of, and, by the way, it isnt my claim, it's Simcha Jacobovici's claim, why dont you ask him??

That's the same guy that tried to pull off the Jesus family tomb Discovery Hoax -- only Geraldo's Capone's Vault was a bigger flop. I don't think anyone would be quoting him as an expert on much these days.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/feb/07022601.html

[charrington]

In essence , Ive said all that I need to say , which is , has and always will be : There are no words texts, codecies , poetry , doctrines , dogmas , bound books , language ,  words , symbols , figures , expressions....that will ever describe what God is , what love is , or what any subjective personal experience is better than to experience these things for ones self.

Great.

[independentWV]

That's the same guy that tried to pull off the Jesus family tomb Discovery Hoax -- only Geraldo's Capone's Vault was a bigger flop. I don't think anyone would be quoting him as an expert on much these days.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2007/feb/07022601.html

Archeologist Joe Zias, who spent a quarter-century at the Rockefeller University in Jerusalem

Surely he would be truthful works for NWO

[charrington]

You know I think Kinpa is talking about (Neph′i·lim) [Fellers; Those Who Cause [Others] to Fall Down]
transliteration.

[charrington]

Archeologist Joe Zias, who spent a quarter-century at the Rockefeller University in Jerusalem

Surely he would be truthful works for NWO

I didn't know you had a sense of humor WV - That was funny.