Do you believe Satan is real?

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm afraid you do kilgore -- you are only fooling yourself. And it doesn't matter how many time YOU say anything - without proof of something - you have nothing. They are just words falling short of truth.


No one said I did -- that's your conjecture once again. Id have to say that Jesus' experiences trump Kilgores experiences.

That is all you've done kilgore -- is that very thing and you're arrogant enough to imply you don't. You imply that your way is the only way while belittling others beliefs .. are you simple?

Show me where I have made any contradictory claim....I need not fool myself at all , I don't care if you believe ...anything , just don't pretend that your beliefs are more valid than any one elses , you see? what's wrong with that.? That's all I've been saying.

[Dok]

which "alot of cases" is that? the bible? i cant find the name Noah anywhere else...in Babylonia (where the jews were enslaved and got the story from in the first place) his name was gilgamesh, however, it wasnt even their legend, it came from sumeria where the hero is named utnapishtim...nope, doesnt sound at all like noah...

here is some.

http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html

[Dok]

here Dok, read up on it....
http://josiahconcept.org/2010/09/24/naked-archeologist-finds-the-giants-gen-64/
"Naked Archeologist Finds the Giants (Gen 6:4)
24 09 2010

Our old friend Simcha Jacobovici is back. I’ve seen the listing for the show The Naked Archeologist several times, but I never bothered to watch. I had no idea that Jacobovici was the Naked Archeologist until I watched a show the other day on tracking down the giants mentioned in the Bible.

An obscure and usually ignored reference to giants comes in Genesis. Goliath is reputed as one; so is King Og. Here is the reference:

    And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, “My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:1-4 KJV, emphasis added)

No skeletal remains from the ANE dating to Old Testament times or before has exceeded 6’5″. That’s not giant by anyone’s standard. So, why does the Bible contain a reference to a race of giants?

I could never understand the veneration of the King James version. Sure, it’s the most lyrical and poetic of the English translations. I won’t argue that. But, it has numerous documented mistranslations. This is one of them. Here’s the same passage, in my personal favorite Bible translation:

    When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Gen 6:1-4 ESV, emphasis added)

The ESV uses the literal Hebrew word that had been translated “giant” since the Septuagint and Latin Vulgate editions of the Old Testament. The Hebrew word nephilim doesn’t mean “giant.” It means “fallen ones.”

Jacobovici talks to a Jewish scholar who says that, according to Jewish tradition, the “sons of God” were earthly beings that resembled humans but didn’t possess a soul. Jacobovici believes that this may refer to Neanderthals, who walked the earth with humans some 60,000 years ago.


He said that humans and Neanderthals lived in peace for a time, and suggests that they may have intermarried, thus producing the Nephilim. The Nephilim were powerful beings: the Bible describes them as people of great renown. His hypothesis makes some sense–Neanderthals would have been closer to animals and therefore very cunning and strong. Add a human intellect to that mix and you have the recipe for a man of great strength, and thus great renown."

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/index2.html

http://www.s8int.com/giants1.html

[Dok]

here Dok, read up on it....
http://josiahconcept.org/2010/09/24/naked-archeologist-finds-the-giants-gen-64/
"Naked Archeologist Finds the Giants (Gen 6:4)
24 09 2010

Our old friend Simcha Jacobovici is back. I’ve seen the listing for the show The Naked Archeologist several times, but I never bothered to watch. I had no idea that Jacobovici was the Naked Archeologist until I watched a show the other day on tracking down the giants mentioned in the Bible.

An obscure and usually ignored reference to giants comes in Genesis. Goliath is reputed as one; so is King Og. Here is the reference:

    And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, “My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (Gen 6:1-4 KJV, emphasis added)

No skeletal remains from the ANE dating to Old Testament times or before has exceeded 6’5″. That’s not giant by anyone’s standard. So, why does the Bible contain a reference to a race of giants?

I could never understand the veneration of the King James version. Sure, it’s the most lyrical and poetic of the English translations. I won’t argue that. But, it has numerous documented mistranslations. This is one of them. Here’s the same passage, in my personal favorite Bible translation:

    When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. (Gen 6:1-4 ESV, emphasis added)

The ESV uses the literal Hebrew word that had been translated “giant” since the Septuagint and Latin Vulgate editions of the Old Testament. The Hebrew word nephilim doesn’t mean “giant.” It means “fallen ones.”

Jacobovici talks to a Jewish scholar who says that, according to Jewish tradition, the “sons of God” were earthly beings that resembled humans but didn’t possess a soul. Jacobovici believes that this may refer to Neanderthals, who walked the earth with humans some 60,000 years ago.


He said that humans and Neanderthals lived in peace for a time, and suggests that they may have intermarried, thus producing the Nephilim. The Nephilim were powerful beings: the Bible describes them as people of great renown. His hypothesis makes some sense–Neanderthals would have been closer to animals and therefore very cunning and strong. Add a human intellect to that mix and you have the recipe for a man of great strength, and thus great renown."

This guy needs to really learn the meaning of the words.

Dr. Michale Heiser.

Mike Heiser Genesis 6 hybrids, Sons of God, Nephilim 1 of 9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-W6c9a3ldQ

http://www.michaelsheiser.com/nephilim.pdf

[feeditup]

Satan is real here he is at work         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riKnUAx8uVs

[feeditup]

dam this satan guy moves fast   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skkCpnCm7iM&feature=player_embedded

[feeditup]

Do you get it yet ?

[charrington]

youre pretty funny,

You've already discredited your input by posting NWO trash in the conversation and state it was fact.
Which tells me you don't know anything about anything.

"the bible's way" which bible? there have been so damned many versions of this so called truth,

Pick one - you dont know any of them or you'd stop dodging and start quoting. All bibles are the same - interpretations and religions are not. Pick one and bring it.

i think youre lost, and the fact remains that it IS your way (interpretation) or to hell one must go because we are all anti christs (in YOUR opinion)

Hell to me Kinpa, is the common grave of man, sheol -- Death. Now you'll tell me you don't die? The immortal foreigner kinpa! Everyone dies even you - that's the common grave of man.

See you haven't even taken the time to distinguish between faiths and try to understand what the differences are so you can talk intelligently to them. You just blurt out "I'm right and you are wrong". Just like kilgore, who denies he does so.

...i dont use hypocrisy or circular logic,

ok .. right. You want me to quote you?

ive no need of them, check yourself however, your looking in the mirror...what on earth makes you think the bible is God inspired? is that anything like channeling or automatic writing?

Nothing like that in the least -- read the bible and you'd know.

oh wait, that would be satanic, like everything else you dont agree with...the TRUTH of God's way is lost beneath your ego, one learns the greatest of truth's when one isnt afraid to look and find spiritual truth in the humblest of places and situations, try it sometime, IF you dare...and remember the words of the bible..."judge NOT, lest YE be judged" good old Psalm 73...youve done quite a bit of judging here, but your own turn comes nigh...

I think you are just hurt that you have nothing to base your opinions on other then "kinpa says" and the lack of substance that goes with that.

I'm not judging you kinpa but comparing you to scripture and what God says. What I've posted are Gods words even though I can see how you'd want it to be me saying for an excuse to reply. God will do the judging not I.
 
I just thought you might want to know what God things about Kinpa, that you fit into what the bible calls the Antichrist - but again those are not my words kinpa, it's the bibles .. go read it again and see for yourself.

Do you or kilgore have any proof of what you say in anyway? If you don't then you can stop arguing about it and defending it with hot air. It's really a waste of time. Especially if it is NWO laced.

[feeditup]

cointelpro infighting will destroy this movement if we let it.

Do you or kilgore have any proof of what you say in anyway? If you don't then you can stop arguing about it and defending it with hot air. It's really a waste of time. Especially if it is NWO laced.

Thats what im sayin

[Kilgore Trout]

Do you or kilgore have any proof of what you say in anyway? If you don't then you can stop arguing about it and defending it with hot air. It's really a waste of time. Especially if it is NWO laced.

Thats what im sayin

No we don't , this is called a debate , to sharpen skills , to strengthen positions or faith , to examine ones own understanding , your point is noted , heard before , and moved passed.

And Charrington , you have no proof either.

[Kilgore Trout]

Don't tell me you don't find my position hard to defend against , it is because it has no contradictions , it is God inspired. I can't believe Christians don't recognize the message of their own "God' , love compassion , forgivness etc , where have I said anything beyond that?

[charrington]

What’s wrong with that? The lads got a way with words, which far exceed the rest of ya’!

You should read the Koran charrington it goes a little further than the Bible with reference to tolerance of other people’s beliefs. Unfortunately, both religions like all religions have fundamental extremists …..
Although people like this are fantastically small in number around the modern world it never ceases to amaze me just how much impact they seem to still have in the modern world.
You consider yourself privileged because of your understanding of your book , suicide bombers consider themselves privileged because of their understanding of their book, and the elite at the top of the slimy corrupt pyramid are privileged by definition. There’s another word inside the word privileged that goes along way to describe the lot of you! But hey, that’s just in my book.

Design is a construct of our brains, we look for patterns it’s what we do. It doesn’t mean their has to be a designer.

Actually I have read parts of it - I can talk to that. It's not a privilege that I feel - it's a need to help others understand what it really says without the propaganda being pushed by those that would destroy it and those that just follow the herd by mimicking what they hear someone else say and call it fact.

It's called defending the faith. I'd like for people to have a clear understanding of it before they make their choices. Right now I'm seeing that clearly they do not and are quoting all sorts of nonsense as if the bible says that. Some wont take the time to even talk about it or discuss it - they just want to give their unfounded bias personal opinions because they are right and you are wrong.

Others base their faith on nothing more then their imagination - at least the bible has history. Call me silly for believing in history but it's a better start then "I hear God in my head" in my opinion.

You have a reason to not believe in the Bible and want to keep that .. cool with me - and you wont see me pushing it. It's your call not mine. You want to talk about the Bible and learn more about what we or I believe ask away - attacking it before you actually know what it says just keeps the ignorance going.

You talk about NWO in the forum and how education of the populous is important - so goes the bible - The Bible says that the truth isn't for everyone - what else can I tell you. If you have something specific to talk about -  that would be a great change of pace over just "my head tells me so" and other law of attraction type NWO jargon.

[feeditup]

dude I didn't wast my time reading 8 pages of shit, Because there's only one thing to remember.



"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" What more is there to bullshit about? where hear now, who cares where were from we will return soon.

Satan is a frame of mind, That seams to be running rapid threw allot of people

[charrington]

Show me where I have made any contradictory claim....I need not fool myself at all , I don't care if you believe ...anything , just don't pretend that your beliefs are more valid than any one elses , you see? what's wrong with that.? That's all I've been saying.

You can start with this post ... Never once have I said "Me or I" always "the bible says".

I go back to your first comment - aggressively states we Christians believe in things that are not true (in less then friendly words). That was your first comment right out of the gate. If what you really say above is truly your opinion don't you think you should practice what you are now preaching to me?

Your very first statement ... no discussion as to why but just flat out - Christians are wrong in what they believe and foolish. And now you have the rocks to try and tell me don't pretend my beliefs are more valid then anyone elses after starting off doing that very thing in your first post. I really can't take you seriously.

 

[charrington]

No we don't , this is called a debate , to sharpen skills , to strengthen positions or faith , to examine ones own understanding , your point is noted , heard before , and moved passed.

And Charrington , you have no proof either.

And Kilgore I have history do you want to talk about that rather then debate with hot air?

[Kilgore Trout]

You can start with this post ... Never once have I said "Me or I" always "the bible says".

I go back to your first comment - aggressively states we Christians believe in things that are not true (in less then friendly words). That was your first comment right out of the gate. If what you really say above is truly your opinion don't you think you should practice what you are now preaching to me?

Your very first statement ... no discussion as to why but just flat out - Christians are wrong in what they believe and foolish. And now you have the rocks to try and tell me don't pretend my beliefs are more valid then anyone elses after starting off doing that very thing in your first post. I really can't take you seriously.

 

Yes as I said , that was out of frustration , becuase to me Satan is a scapeGOAT fairytale. And you continue to refer to that as if you've never heard this : "When the devil reminds of you of your past , remind him of his future"

What you have is the washed and Constantinian sanctioned brand of "Christianity" , have you heard of the others who followed Christ's teachings before they were killed by Constantine? This has nothing to do either with Catholics because your protestantism is Catholic lite.

You say "the bible says" , which to me further reduces your understanding of God. That's fine though , you believe in the words of men and surrogate their experiences for your own , I choose to know God through my own experience , thanks.

You have faith in the bible being God's word , I do not. That is well enough for me.

[Kilgore Trout]

And Kilgore I have history do you want to talk about that rather then debate with hot air?

History washed by government council and decree , punishable by death.

[Dok]

History washed by government council and decree , punishable by death.

  like;

[Novus Ordo]

Actually I have read parts of it - I can talk to that. It's not a privilege that I feel - it's a need to help others understand what it really says without the propaganda being pushed by those that would destroy it and those that just follow the herd by mimicking what they hear someone else say and call it fact.

It's called defending the faith. I'd like for people to have a clear understanding of it before they make their choices. Right now I'm seeing that clearly they do not and are quoting all sorts of nonsense as if the bible says that. Some wont take the time to even talk about it or discuss it - they just want to give their unfounded bias personal opinions because they are right and you are wrong.

Others base their faith on nothing more then their imagination - at least the bible has history. Call me silly for believing in history but it's a better start then "I hear God in my head" in my opinion.

You have a reason to not believe in the Bible and want to keep that .. cool with me - and you wont see me pushing it. It's your call not mine. You want to talk about the Bible and learn more about what we or I believe ask away - attacking it before you actually know what it says just keeps the ignorance going.

You talk about NWO in the forum and how education of the populous is important - so goes the bible - The Bible says that the truth isn't for everyone - what else can I tell you. If you have something specific to talk about -  that would be a great change of pace over just "my head tells me so" and other law of attraction type NWO jargon.

Throughout history, Christianity twists and turns to fit other people’s version of events for no more aim but to hold power. The Catholics were on the news this morning about now being ok about condoms.
The vase majority of Christians and Christian clergy accept that if you take it literary word for word
You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve heard the old chestnut “no your reading it wrong” “It doesn’t mean that”, well, yes it does mean that and no I’m not reading it wrong both books are bloodthirsty barbaric attempts to frighten the shite out of you if you persist in raping and pillaging each other.
Mass control of the feeble mind to create order from chaos.

[Dok]

Throughout history, Christianity twists and turns to fit other people’s version of events for no more aim but to hold power. The Catholics were on the news this morning about now being ok about condoms.
The vase majority of Christians and Christian clergy accept that if you take it literary word for word
You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.
I’ve lost count how many times I’ve heard the old chestnut “no your reading it wrong” “It doesn’t mean that”, well, yes it does mean that and no I’m not reading it wrong both books are bloodthirsty barbaric attempts to frighten the shite out of you if you persist in raping and pillaging each other.
Mass control of the feeble mind to create order from chaos.

catholics arent christian, please dont lump them together. beliefs and books are 2 different things.

[feeditup]

You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.



don't label people  OK 

[Novus Ordo]

catholics arent christian, please dont lump them together. beliefs and books are 2 different things.

Lol…yeah well that kind of proves my point Doc cheers

[Novus Ordo]

What other genuine none devious arguments do you have other than saying “prove it prove it” and sticking your fingers in your ears & singing “la la la”
You work for a fortune 500 company don’t you Doc? Now I know that could simply mean you say, “Do you want fries with that” a lot during the coarse of a day but it get the impression your higher up than that, do you give most of your wages away each month? Do you live in a shed in a shanty town?

[Dok]

You’re a bit of a nutter a fundamentalist an extremist.



don't label people  OK 

you mean like you just did?

[Kilgore Trout]

What other genuine none devious arguments do you have other than saying “prove it prove it” and sticking your fingers in your ears & singing “la la la”
You work for a fortune 500 company don’t you Doc? Now I know that could simply mean you say, “Do you want fries with that” a lot during the coarse of a day but it get the impression your higher up than that, do you give most of your wages away each month? Do you live in a shed in a shanty town?

How does one follow Christ without giving up his dwelling and going aobut as a baptist...literally? A rhetorical question on my part , otherwise this whole thing is just coffee shop philosophy , which is basically how I see it.

[feeditup]

What other genuine none devious arguments do you have other than saying “prove it prove it” and sticking your fingers in your ears & singing “la la la”
You work for a fortune 500 company don’t you Doc? Now I know that could simply mean you say, “Do you want fries with that” a lot during the coarse of a day but it get the impression your higher up than that, do you give most of your wages away each month? Do you live in a shed in a shanty town?

irrelevant

[Dok]

What other genuine none devious arguments do you have other than saying “prove it prove it” and sticking your fingers in your ears & singing “la la la”
You work for a fortune 500 company don’t you Doc? Now I know that could simply mean you say, “Do you want fries with that” a lot during the coarse of a day but it get the impression your higher up than that, do you give most of your wages away each month? Do you live in a shed in a shanty town?

jealous?

[Kilgore Trout]

Discordianism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism

[Novus Ordo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-QWKGbm2Q

[Novus Ordo]

jealous?

lol, come on Doc' you can do better than that

[feeditup]

lol, come on Doc' you can do better than that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-QWKGbm2Q

Really . Masonic media mind control is the best you can do.

[Novus Ordo]

Really . Masonic media mind control is the best you can do.

irrelevant

[feeditup]

Well what the hells your point some video clip of some dude labeling another dude ah bum shit i guess the Indians where bums. it's called exploring

[feeditup]

Your living in the trap posting clips like that, talking about money. Come dude

[Kinpa]

You've already discredited your input by posting NWO trash in the conversation and state it was fact.
Which tells me you don't know anything about anything.Pick one - you dont know any of them or you'd stop dodging and start quoting. All bibles are the same - interpretations and religions are not. Pick one and bring it.
Hell to me Kinpa, is the common grave of man, sheol -- Death. Now you'll tell me you don't die? The immortal foreigner kinpa! Everyone dies even you - that's the common grave of man.

i have never said that i wont ever die, but, in my soul i am free, and i have died actually, but yasee, i came back again because im not finished just yet...and i wont be going to "the common grave of man" my ashes will be spread throughout the mountains, and my soul will remain, to help others, thoe that are bold enough to seek the direct experience of soul, and God...have a problem with that? thats ok, in your next life you get to start all over and try again...

See you haven't even taken the time to distinguish between faiths and try to understand what the differences are so you can talk intelligently to them. You just blurt out "I'm right and you are wrong". Just like kilgore, who denies he does so.

there is no distinguishing between faiths lol, God doesnt care what your religion is...and i blurt out whatever i may blurt out, you yourself blurt out that others are the anti christ quite often, shall i quote YOU? thats what YOU call a person who disagrees with YOU, name calling...what is this? 4th grade? maybe i is to you...

 

ok .. right. You want me to quote you?
Nothing like that in the least -- read the bible and you'd know.
I think you are just hurt that you have nothing to base your opinions on other then "kinpa says" and the lack of substance that goes with that.

quote away, it wont help you...ive read the bible through and through, back when i used to paint churches...but im an anti christ NWO person, dont listen to me, just like you dont listen to a scientist that says the earth IS older than 5000 years  talk about a lack of substance...read the Quran, read any other book than the bible, it is NOT the word of God, God doesnt write...the bible is Constantine's word, period, and history bears ample evidence of this, prove history wrong, can you? ill be waiting...

I'm not judging you kinpa but comparing you to scripture and what God says. What I've posted are Gods words even though I can see how you'd want it to be me saying for an excuse to reply. God will do the judging not I.
 I just thought you might want to know what God things about Kinpa, that you fit into what the bible calls the Antichrist - but again those are not my words kinpa, it's the bibles .. go read it again and see for yourself.

yes, you ARE judging me, at least have the guts to admit the truth, for you fit the bible's description of the anti christ at leastas well as i do (in YOUR opinion) but the bible says that the anti christ will appear as a christian, and i havent been one since i was 9 years old, so there goes THAT idea, there's no way to mistake me for an anti christ, i dont even remotely fit the bill...you on the other hand...

Do you or kilgore have any proof of what you say in anyway? If you don't then you can stop arguing about it and defending it with hot air. It's really a waste of time. Especially if it is NWO laced.

when did you find out about the NWO? back in '91 when george bush mentioned it? lol, youre quite the late comer to this scene, honestly, are  you THAT young?

[Novus Ordo]

Well what the hells your point some video clip of some dude labeling another dude ah bum shit i guess the Indians where bums. it's called exploring

he was giving up everything to walk the earth because he was touched by god (allegedly)
My point was he chooses to give up all materialism to follow gods teachings,
& maybe I was suggesting there are talkers on here not walkers.

[Kinpa]

Never seen it, do you have a link to the episode or any documentation? The Nephilim have very specific characteristics, to which i have never seen on a neanderthal. SO show me your proof and i will look at it.

the point is, that even your bible has mistranslated the word nephilim, so, what specific characteristics are you speaking of?that they fell from the sky or that they were larger than an average human? which translation is it?

[feeditup]

I under Stand

[Dok]

the point is, that even your bible has mistranslated the word nephilim, so, what specific characteristics are you speaking of?that they fell from the sky or that they were larger than an average human? which translation is it?

Its translated properly.

You tell me. Its your claim. I didnt know i had to explain your beleifs to you. Nephilim has very specific characteristics that the neanderthals did not have.

[Kinpa]

Never seen it, do you have a link to the episode or any documentation? The Nephilim have very specific characteristics, to which i have never seen on a neanderthal. SO show me your proof and i will look at it.

you cant watch it for free, you'd have to download  the torrent to watch it, if youre willing to do that, i can see no problem with your being able to view it...