Do you believe Satan is real?

[Kilgore Trout]

It matters not what bible verses you choose , they will never be enough to describe the experience of love or God.

[Dok]

I am like my brother Jesus , God is our father , we are his children , all humanity are in kinship.

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

[Dok]

It matters not what bible verses you choose , they will never be enough to describe the experience of love or God.

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

[Kilgore Trout]

We are all the children of God.

[independentWV]

We are all the children of God.

Kindred spirits 

[charrington]

You obviously missed the point , the point is that it is not I you should believe regarding anything about God , it is yourselves , you account for what God is , it is your subjective perceptions. Now if you have adopted the writing of others as the experience you wish to percieve as real and authentic , by all means feel free , but don't expect others to do so ,

I understood exactly what you meant - here's the problem, you keep attacking others beliefs and then when fire is returned you tell people what their are doing is wrong ----->

Let me stop you here for just a second and remind you that it was YOU that busted in on the topic which is "Do you believe Satan is real" and posted this comment "How much stupid fairy tales can people invest their time in?" So why don't you practice what you preach? If you don't believe in Satan "by all means feel free , but don't expect others to do so" Sound familiar?

when some of us have our own authentic experiences from which to draw our understanding of the almighty. Least of all should you concieve that your adopted second hand experiences (bible) are more valid than anyone elses. I must also concede that my experiences are my own perceptions and may not be for everyone , and may also not be "true" or "correct". You see this is what a logical person does , to make concesions based upon reason.
Can you make this concesion? that your beliefs may not be the absolute truth....

How is a person going to believe you just because you say so? Everything in life is by example. Parents teach their children from their own life experiences and hopefully they (the children) learn from it. Along the way they have their own experiences but that's not to say that others including their parents haven't experienced it before.

The bible is a book for us to start learning by others experiences - it begins our journey - it is the foundation. Just as a parent begins his children experiences. Best of all it comes from the creator of all things , and all knowledge. Why on earth would someone discount that experience in lieu of your own personal experience -  That's not logic that's called stubbornness and arrogance - children do it all the time. When you have children of your own you'll understand that and learn from it.

No concession is needed, I'm not perfect and I can make mistakes .. and have - lots of them. There's also a lot of things I don't understand. But I do believe in the bible and what it says and I'm open to hearing where people think it's wrong.

[Dok]

We are all the children of God.

1Jn 3:10  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

[Kilgore Trout]

Kindred spirits 

Yes and thank God.

[Kilgore Trout]

1Jn 3:10  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I do love my brothers and sisters. I love them so much that I forgive them and myself , and try to be as kind as I can. Mind you , I'm having a philosophical discussion about spirituality....

[Dok]

I do love my brothers and sisters. I love them so much that I forgive them and myself , and try to be as kind as I can. Mind you , I'm having a philosophical discussion about spirituality....

Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Ye Must Be Born Again!

[Kilgore Trout]

I understood exactly what you meant - here's the problem, you keep attacking others beliefs and then when fire is returned you tell people what their are doing is wrong ----->

Let me stop you here for just a second and remind you that it was YOU that busted in on the topic which is "Do you believe Satan is real" and posted this comment "How much stupid fairy tales can people invest their time in?" So why don't you practice what you preach? If you don't believe in Satan "by all means feel free , but don't expect others to do so" Sound familiar?
How is a person going to believe you just because you say so? Everything in life is by example. Parents teach their children from their own life experiences and hopefully they (the children) learn from it. Along the way they have their own experiences but that's not to say that others including their parents haven't experienced it before.

The bible is a book for us to start learning by others experiences - it begins our journey - it is the foundation. Just as a parent begins his children experiences. Best of all it comes from the creator of all things , and all knowledge. Why on earth would someone discount that experience in lieu of your own personal experience -  That's not logic that's called stubbornness and arrogance - children do it all the time. When you have children of your own you'll understand that and learn from it.

No concession is needed, I'm not perfect and I can make mistakes .. and have - lots of them. There's also a lot of things I don't understand. But I do believe in the bible and what it says and I'm open to hearing where people think it's wrong.

I have a 12 year old boy and an almost 5 year old girl. I agree that I busted in the thread with what you quoted , it gets so frustrating to hear about Satan , because to me this character is an excuse a cop-out and a scapeGOAT.

I don't ask that you trust me , just that you trust yourself , and don't proceed to judge those who disagree with you and claim that your FAITH is somehow more valid than anything else , as I've stated , my truth is for me and not absolute , it is based on my understanding and sensual perceptions. Least of all don't take the "foundation" you adhere to and judge me by it. If you read any of my post history in this area , my view has stayed the same.

And dok :
"Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

This is a prime example , you trade the liberty of finding out for yourelf what God and humanity can be , for the words of others , for a supposed eternal security and your self pleasing rewards.  

[Dok]

And dok :
"Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

This is a prime example , you trade the liberty of finding out for yourelf what God and humanity can be , for the words of others , for a supposed eternal secuirty and your self pleasing rewards.  

Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

[Kilgore Trout]

Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out.

[Dok]

I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out.

Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

[Kilgore Trout]

Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

We all symbolically take up a cross , though to love my family and abide in them is to love God and cherish the gifts he has given. Many Christians can be accused of not really following Christ , have you given up a permanent dwelling? have you gone out as the baptist?

[charrington]

I have a 12 year old boy and an almost 5 year old girl. I agree that I busted in the thread with what you quoted , it gets so frustrating to hear about Satan , because to me this character is an excuse a cop-out and a scapeGOAT.

Others don't see it that way Kilgore - The difference being you have no belief in the Bible as Gods word others do. I get just as frustrated with what I see.

I don't ask that you trust me , just that you trust yourself , and don't proceed to judge those who disagree with you and claim that your FAITH is somehow more valid than anything else , as I've stated , my truth is for me and not absolute , it is based on my understanding and sensual perceptions. Least of all don't take the "foundation" you adhere to and judge me by it. If you read any of my post history in this area , my view has stayed the same.

I don't judge you - but again we come back to your personal belief's vs the bible and no offense meant but I've chosen the bible. So when someone here talks scripture - it's so you might - hopefully - take a moment to think about where it comes from because we all are subject to that same scripture quoted for you.

Dok's scriptures apply to Dok as well as anyone reading them. Same with me and others here. That's because they are not our words but that of God. Everything you read here applies to us as well as you.

You want to talk about scriptural accuracy and why we believe what we do great I can deal with that but just saying we are wrong about it without discussion is, I believe short sighted.

And dok :
"Isa 64:6  But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

This is a prime example , you trade the liberty of finding out for yourelf what God and humanity can be , for the words of others , for a supposed eternal security and your self pleasing rewards.  

I don't think we're trading anything really.

[Kinpa]

   

[Kilgore Trout]

Others don't see it that way Kilgore - The difference being you have no belief in the Bible as Gods word others do. I get just as frustrated with what I see.
I don't judge you - but again we come back to your personal belief's vs the bible and no offense meant but I've chosen the bible. So when someone here talks scripture - it's so you might - hopefully - take a moment to think about where it comes from because we all are subject to that same scripture quoted for you.

Dok's scriptures apply to Dok as well as anyone reading them. Same with me and others here. That's because they are not our words but that of God. Everything you read here applies to us as well as you.

You want to talk about scriptural accuracy and why we believe what we do great I can deal with that but just saying we are wrong about it without discussion is, I believe short sighted.
I don't think we're trading anything really.

I understand what the bible does and is and I am not SUBJECT to it. It shames humanity , it belittles experience and it does not pass it's own test for love.

See this?
dok says:
"Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Kilgore says:
"I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out."

You see the ultimate foul is that you and your brethren are looking to "store up" treasure , when I'm looking to spread treasure around to my fellow human beings in the form of the love that God has charged us with as his children.

And just because you use your senses to choose to believe the bible is the word of God , does not make it so. Have you heard of the other Christians? Those who followed Christ's teachings before the Constantinian government killed them...

[DAVIDE MTL]

Kilgore says:
"I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out."

You see the ultimate foul is that you and your brethren are looking to "store up" treasure , when I'm looking to spread treasure around to my fellow human beings in the form of the love that God has charged us with as his children.

[/quote]
I would argue that the irony is by spreading treasure around to your fellow human beings in the form of love you are (unknowingly to you )storing up treasure in heaven

as far as your misguided views on the satanic agenda are :
 I would argue the reason you wish to ignore the obvious satanic angle is because it doesn't fit with your existing belief system..for starters listen to Dr Stan, read brotherhood of darkness

[charrington]

I understand what the bible does and is and I am not SUBJECT to it. It shames humanity , it belittles experience and it does not pass it's own test for love.

Well I think most people would agree with the shameful state of humanity -- 6 world powers have come and gone. Always for the same reasons. It's not getting better today - but far worse then ever before.

See this?
dok says:
"Mat 6:19  Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20  But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
Mat 6:21  For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Kilgore says:
"I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out."

You see the ultimate foul is that you and your brethren are looking to "store up" treasure , when I'm looking to spread treasure around to my fellow human beings in the form of the love that God has charged us with as his children.

No Kilgore -- we don't store up treasures, just the opposite. I don't see how you can misunderstand that. It's says:
 
Jesus commanded his followers: “Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal.” (Matthew 6:19) Yet, some brothers ‘stab themselves all over with many pains’ by putting material interests ahead of Kingdom interests.
Why? Not only are such treasures perishable but they build up no merit with God.

You could easily become a “physical man” by seeking out and acquiring unnecessary things of a material nature. In such a case, self-sacrifice looks excessive, even ridiculous. But that is the view of a “physical man,” not the view of a “spiritual man.”

A spiritual man is one who views matters through the eyes of faith. He sees things from God’s viewpoint. Consider Noah. Would he have been balanced if, after learning of God’s purpose to destroy the world by a flood, he had spent his time building a bigger and better home and obtaining more material possessions?

It has nothing to do with your family or spreading the treasure around.

Christians are commanded to spread the word and love. That also comes directly from Jesus. There is no storing up if you are a Christian... That was Dok's point.

And just because you use your senses to choose to believe the bible is the word of God , does not make it so. Have you heard of the other Christians? Those who followed Christ's teachings before the Constantinian government killed them...

Of course I have heard of Constantine -- where have you read that all Christians were destroyed? Nowhere. Because that isn't the case. This is where you show you have no faith in God -- In reality you are saying that the almighty God did not have the power keep his word in tact - Many of those Christians fled.

Jesus told his followers that after the death of his apostles there would be a falling away from pure worship. That the apostasy would be so extensive that genuine disciples would almost disappear , until the conclusion of this system of things. Christians knew, thanks to Jesus, this would happen in advance.

[charrington]

Kilgore says:
"I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out."

You see the ultimate foul is that you and your brethren are looking to "store up" treasure , when I'm looking to spread treasure around to my fellow human beings in the form of the love that God has charged us with as his children.


I would argue that the irony is by spreading treasure around to your fellow human beings in the form of love you are (unknowingly to you )storing up treasure in heaven

as far as your misguided views on the satanic agenda are :
 I would argue the reason you wish to ignore the obvious satanic angle is because it doesn't fit with your existing belief system..for starters listen to Dr Stan, read brotherhood of darkness

Very true --

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore says:
"I treasure my family. I do not pine for rewards beyond the love of my fellow human beings which could be seen on earth right now , as God's children we are to love each other , these things are not to be stored up they are to be spread out."

You see the ultimate foul is that you and your brethren are looking to "store up" treasure , when I'm looking to spread treasure around to my fellow human beings in the form of the love that God has charged us with as his children.


I would argue that the irony is by spreading treasure around to your fellow human beings in the form of love you are (unknowingly to you )storing up treasure in heaven

as far as your misguided views on the satanic agenda are :
 I would argue the reason you wish to ignore the obvious satanic angle is because it doesn't fit with your existing belief system..for starters listen to Dr Stan, read brotherhood of darkness

You're right , since Satan is a Christian invention , the bin laden of the spirit world , I of course do not buy it. There is no evidence beyond conjecture to validate anything "Satanic" in the agenda , like the "satanic panic" in the 80's these things are unfounded. The agenda is more on par with corporate greed and american apethy and ignorance , and the coprorations are represented by politicians and medi.....nothing satanic.

[DAVIDE MTL]

You're right , since Satan is a Christian invention , the bin laden of the spirit world , I of course do not buy it. There is no evidence beyond conjecture to validate anything "Satanic" in the agenda , like the "satanic panic" in the 80's these things are unfounded. The agenda is more on par with corporate greed and american apethy and ignorance , and the corprorations are represented by politicians and medi.....nothing satanic.

Ofcourse if you don't feel like looking at the evidence you can do that too

[charrington]

You're right , since Satan is a Christian invention , the bin laden of the spirit world , I of course do not buy it. There is no evidence beyond conjecture to validate anything "Satanic" in the agenda , like the "satanic panic" in the 80's these things are unfounded. The agenda is more on par with corporate greed and american apethy and ignorance , and the coprorations are represented by politicians and medi.....nothing satanic.

Even if you were right - the fact that corporations, the UN and politicians openly worship Satan by name - perception becomes reality and they take on his characteristics and manifest them. Satan exists no matter how you want to look at it.

[charrington]

Ever notice how Joe Stirling starts these threads and never comments on any of them?

[Kilgore Trout]

Even if you were right - the fact that corporations, the UN and politicians openly worship Satan by name - perception becomes reality and they take on his characteristics and manifest them. Satan exists no matter how you want to look at it.

Yes perhaps , but it seems that these perceptions are propped up and inflated by Christians. I have not seen one shred of evidence for the "Satanic death cult agenda" , I see much speculation and I wonder how many of the elite play this "satan" game in order to confound and confuse the mass population of Christians , who are on a false trail looking for a horned boogie man and missing the human beings who's greed and materialism are really killing the spirit of man.

[Kinpa]

 Noah didnt exist, get his name right, and dont blame actual historical evidences on Zeitgeist either, that is a pretty weak excuse, for one who doesnt have the courage to see the truth...bible thumpers...

[charrington]

Noah didnt exist, get his name right, and dont blame actual historical evidences on Zeitgeist either, that is a pretty weak excuse, for one who doesnt have the courage to see the truth...bible thumpers...

Zeitgeist has been proven to be a complete NWO farce - well known fact. Go post that crap in a main thread here and see what happens next.

[charrington]

Yes perhaps , but it seems that these perceptions are propped up and inflated by Christians. I have not seen one shred of evidence for the "Satanic death cult agenda" , I see much speculation and I wonder how many of the elite play this "satan" game in order to confound and confuse the mass population of Christians , who are on a false trail looking for a horned boogie man and missing the human beings who's greed and materialism are really killing the spirit of man.

Well if you really want to know look in this forum and you'll find out how seriously they take their Satanism. Aj and other here have it very well documented. There are many other political watch dog groups that have done very good video's on the UN and Satanism. Now that I'm thinking of it AJ as it in a few of his videos as well.

You have to be living in a cave with Bin Laden not to have seen evidence of Satanic cults - that is unbelievable to me.

Make no mistake they believe in it completely.

who are on a false trail looking for a horned boogie man and missing the human beings who's greed and materialism are really killing the spirit of man.

I don't know who that would be - that's not how the bible describes him at all. That sounds more like a pagan belief.

[lamourlady]

...the only difference in my walk is that I do it without the promise of reward. For some reason this bothers you....why?

Because your system is so good for you because you live in a country where you have all the basic necessities to live; therefore you have audacity to claim this life is merely enough.  How do you answer the Ethiopian who is starving?  How do you answer the innocent man in jail?  Children who are molested daily by those who are suppose to love them.  How do you tell them this life is enough and when they die sorry about your luck but that is all there is?  How do you tell them to just smile and love one another in peace despite a situation that may never change? Your system is based on circumstance and that is hardly fair is it?

Jesus Christ does offer them something more than the here and now of their circumstance; He offers them an eternal life that will make up for those which lacked the luck of the draw.  If I gained nothing else but being able to be in the presence of my Creator, that is enough for me, but for those who were not lucky enough to live the earthly life I did, to them my God gives them their due rewards.  Who are you to tell them they don't deserve them, who made you their judge?  And by what means do you consider them selfish for wanting something more?  

What hope can you give them Kilgore?  Nothing.  All you can tell them is that they have to try to just "love one another in peace" while they starve to their deaths of oblivion and to make the best of their situation before that day, cause that’s all they have.  All the while you sit in your nice home, with your nice meal and your children, whose bellies are full.

Nice message to be spreading and how unselfish of you.  So easy with all your 'earthly rewards' surrounding you.  Even the poorest American has it made compared to the circumstance of most in our world.

I hate that you are beneath the true message of Christ so much so that it only benefits you and that you would steal the hope of any who dare to live in faith of something more and who live outside our lives of comfort and privilege.  The day you can live as they do and still spew this new-age, happy-mamby crap, is the day that I will believe you are as unselfish as you claim.

[independentWV]

Helping those in need is one of the major themes of the Bible and of Jesus' ministry. Jesus said to His disciples to lay no cost on anyone they served?

A church today runs on money. And the expenses are not evangelistic or charitable in the majority. It is a sad state of affairs, christians.

If the church returned to Jesus's structure for the church, the support for missions and charities both personally and financially would grow. This is because the focus would be on --- JESUS -- and Jesus's words. The emphasis radically changes for Jesus taught us:

       to provide food, water and clothes to the brethren (in need)(Parable of the Sheep and the Goats);
       help our neighbor in medical need from a mortal condition (Parable of the Good Samaritan);
       to provide a tithe which if its original form were revived represents 66% of all donations going to widows and orphans --- the true  ratio in the Original Testament
       nothing about attending a church or weekly worship service or creating an expensive worship center but instead Jesus foresaw a post-temple time of worshipping in "truth and spirit" without such a building expense burdening us; and
       to go into all the "world" and "not hide our light under a bushel" and preach and teach "all that I (Jesus) have commanded you."

  Get Rid of Church Buildings that is where much of the money bag is. Wasn't the only money handled by the 12 a money bag for the poor? Was this ever spent on administration costs of staff and a music team? Did Jesus stay in one place and show up week after week at the same synagogue to speak, or instead did Jesus largely give itinerant missionary messages to strangers in open fields? Jesus said He had no place to even lay His head.

The original disciples never had any formal "name" for themselves but were later called Christians by the Romans who occupied Antioch Greece in which the word had a very different meaning in those ancient days!

[Kilgore Trout]

Because your system is so good for you because you live in a country where you have all the basic necessities to live; therefore you have audacity to claim this life is merely enough.  How do you answer the Ethiopian who is starving?  How do you answer the innocent man in jail?  Children who are molested daily by those who are suppose to love them.  How do you tell them this life is enough and when they die sorry about your luck but that is all there is?  How do you tell them to just smile and love one another in peace despite a situation that may never change? Your system is based on circumstance and that is hardly fair is it?

Jesus Christ does offer them something more than the here and now of their circumstance; He offers them an eternal life that will make up for those which lacked the luck of the draw.  If I gained nothing else but being able to be in the presence of my Creator, that is enough for me, but for those who were not lucky enough to live the earthly life I did, to them my God gives them their due rewards.  Who are you to tell them they don't deserve them, who made you their judge?  And by what means do you consider them selfish for wanting something more?  

What hope can you give them Kilgore?  Nothing.  All you can tell them is that they have to try to just "love one another in peace" while they starve to their deaths of oblivion and to make the best of their situation before that day, cause that’s all they have.  All the while you sit in your nice home, with your nice meal and your children, whose bellies are full.

Nice message to be spreading and how unselfish of you.  So easy with all your 'earthly rewards' surrounding you.  Even the poorest American has it made compared to the circumstance of most in our world.

I hate that you are beneath the true message of Christ so much so that it only benefits you and that you would steal the hope of any who dare to live in faith of something more and who live outside our lives of comfort and privilege.  The day you can live as they do and still spew this new-age, happy-mamby crap, is the day that I will believe you are as unselfish as you claim.

I'm glad to conjure sympathy you find it so easy to characterise my life as easy. Much of the time my family and I do not know how we are supposed to survive. We do what we must , including but not limited to pawning our belongings , selling our plasma , eating sub standard foods from charity orginazations , taking a loan against my 94 mustang which was given to me and is my only "family" transport at a rate of 311.% interest...etc , Not the picnic you seem to describe. I thank God for giving me the strength to make the hustle to survive. In fact the reason that I believe in God at all is because I've lived so long in poverty and have been able to at least maintain.

The rewards you talk about are wishes , in fact if more people would believe that this was our only life , they might be better suited to stand up for themselves and make the changes possible. If more people were to walk without the selfish and greedy concepts of wealth in this life or the next , people would be more likely to spread about that which we need to survive , to those who have been victimized here on earth and need the heaven idea to help them , I don't begrudge that , in fact if I died today , I would want my children to think they would see me again.

Though I undersatnd that these are wishes , hopes , whatever it takes to comfort the heart ...I say do , but by no means should anyone really believe this stuff litterally enough to make judgments about the way others choose to live from their beliefs , which are only beliefs. You see that's been my contention from day one , believe what you want but the moment you start telling me I'm wrong and you're right , that's the moment I will challenge you...and win.  

[Kilgore Trout]

Well if you really want to know look in this forum and you'll find out how seriously they take their Satanism. Aj and other here have it very well documented. There are many other political watch dog groups that have done very good video's on the UN and Satanism. Now that I'm thinking of it AJ as it in a few of his videos as well.

You have to be living in a cave with Bin Laden not to have seen evidence of Satanic cults - that is unbelievable to me.

Make no mistake they believe in it completely.I don't know who that would be - that's not how the bible describes him at all. That sounds more like a pagan belief.

I've seen alot of speculation and fantasticly entertaing theories purposed by theorists , but not one shred of irrefutable evidence. I know much of the material here and elsehwere , but none of it goes beyond speculation. Show me proof , if not then consider me someone who does not believe in the idea that anyone in power is in a satanic death cult.
 
"Bohemian Grove"..? a bunch of rich fruitcakes that get involved in psychodramas because they have to "release" the pent up aggrresssion they have as a psychic residue from always looking to manipulate and control other in order to gain wealth and power.

[Dok]

Noah didnt exist, get his name right, and dont blame actual historical evidences on Zeitgeist either, that is a pretty weak excuse, for one who doesnt have the courage to see the truth...bible thumpers...

Can you prove Noah didn't exist? Almost every culture on the planet has his story in their history.


Zeitgeist?  all hail Maitreya 

[charrington]

I'm glad to conjure sympathy you find it so easy to characterise my life as easy. Much of the time my family and I do not know how we are supposed to survive. We do what we must , including but not limited to pawning our belongings , selling our plasma , eating sub standard foods from charity orginazations , taking a loan against my 94 mustang which was given to me and is my only "family" transport at a rate of 311.% interest...etc , Not the picnic you seem to describe. I thank God for giving me the strength to make the hustle to survive. In fact the reason that I believe in God at all is because I've lived so long in poverty and have been able to at least maintain.

The rewards you talk about are wishes , in fact if more people would believe that this was our only life , they might be better suited to stand up for themselves and make the changes possible. If more people were to walk without the selfish and greedy concepts of wealth in this life or the next , people would be more likely to spread about that which we need to survive , to those who have been victimized here on earth and need the heaven idea to help them , I don't begrudge that , in fact if I died today , I would want my children to think they would see me again.

Though I undersatnd that these are wishes , hopes , whatever it takes to comfort the heart ...I say do , but by no means should anyone really believe this stuff litterally enough to make judgments about the way others choose to live from their beliefs , which are only beliefs. You see that's been my contention from day one , believe what you want but the moment you start telling me I'm wrong and you're right , that's the moment I will challenge you...and win.  

Its' possible that you are the reason that you are in the position you are in now.

[charrington]

I've seen alot of speculation and fantasticly entertaing theories purposed by theorists , but not one shred of irrefutable evidence. I know much of the material here and elsehwere , but none of it goes beyond speculation. Show me proof , if not then consider me someone who does not believe in the idea that anyone in power is in a satanic death cult.
 
"Bohemian Grove"..? a bunch of rich fruitcakes that get involved in psychodramas because they have to "release" the pent up aggrresssion they have as a psychic residue from always looking to manipulate and control other in order to gain wealth and power.

Have you ever seen God or Jesus walking around?

[Kilgore Trout]

Its' possible that you are the reason that you are in the position you are in now.

I am the reason , I am employed , I operate a crane for a living , and I love my family. If you're trying to say that I'm doing bad and it's my fault , I would say the entire ecenomy has been on the wane and yes it sucks , that is not my fault. I make 35k a year , it's jut not enough to live without struggle. And what do you do? how are you living? You probably buy into banking and credit and the like , I do not ....and yes they mae it hard to have principals , and I am the reason , I don't jump through hoops , I am the reason..

[Kilgore Trout]

Have you ever seen God or Jesus walking around?

Yes , you havn't I guess...?

[charrington]

I am the reason , I am employed , I operate a crane for a living , and I love my family. If you're trying to say that I'm doing bad and it's my fault , I would say the entire ecenomy has been on the wane and yes it sucks , that is not my fault. I make 35k a year , it's jut not enough to live without struggle. And what do you do? how are you living? You probably buy into banking and credit and the like , I do not ....and yes they mae it hard to have principals , and I am the reason , I don't jump through hoops , I am the reason..

No, I'm trying to say you might have less to worry about if you had a different attitude about the truth and reality.

[charrington]

Yes , you havn't I guess...?

Where were they? Where did you see them?