Do you believe Satan is real?

[Dok]

This was in original message is it not in New Testament?
These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." (Luke 24:44)

Actually did not need to include a listing could have just used the above verse.

uhm, ya, because Jesus is God. So of course everything about him is in the Old Testament. But, that passage is talking about the prophecies of Jesus's coming. Did you notice that last part? must be fulfilled, that is in reference to the prophecies.

But again you are using the New Testament, to which you have rejected.

[charrington]

Marcion cult text not accepted cast out false prophets and liars. He was a murderer from the beginning.

Do I need to define: All of Paul's Epistles

OH yeah .. you are the anti Paul .. you think Paul was not one of Jesus' apostles right?

[independentWV]

uhm, ya, because Jesus is God. So of course everything about him is in the Old Testament. But, that passage is talking about the prophecies of Jesus's coming. Did you notice that last part? must be fulfilled, that is in reference to the prophecies.

But again you are using the New Testament, to which you have rejected.

That is your bad stated twice what I reject

[independentWV]

OH yeah .. you are the anti Paul .. you think Paul was not one of Jesus' apostles right?

Jesus never made Paul an apostle from the records that we can read, Mathias replaced Judas
Paul's claim of being selected as an apostle later by Jesus is unbelievable. That story asks us to believe Jesus knowing his Father's will had not planned things adequately with the twelve.
He is inferior, Paul in Acts 15 submitted his doctrine to the twelve Apostles.

Paul was excommunicated from Church of Jesus by James, brother of Jesus.

[charrington]

Jesus never made Paul an apostle from the records that we can read, Mathias replaced Judas
Paul's claim of being selected as an apostle later by Jesus is unbelievable. That story asks us to believe Jesus knowing his Father's will had not planned things adequately with the twelve.

One could say that same thing about replacing Judas - why give Judas the spot if he knew it wasn't going to end that way to begin with? There's a difference between a plan and a purpose. Everything that happens either God causes to happen or allows to happen for a reason. You sir, may not be the judge of that or question the motives of God. Unless of course your name is Kilgore

He is inferior, Paul in Acts 15 submitted his doctrine to the twelve Apostles.

Paul was excommunicated from Church of Jesus by James, brother of Jesus.

What scripture was that again?

[Kilika]

Jesus never made Paul an apostle from the records that we can read, Mathias replaced Judas
Paul's claim of being selected as an apostle later by Jesus is unbelievable. That story asks us to believe Jesus knowing his Father's will had not planned things adequately with the twelve.
He is inferior, Paul in Acts 15 submitted his doctrine to the twelve Apostles.

Paul was excommunicated from Church of Jesus by James, brother of Jesus.

Jesus never made Paul an apostle? Well, that is an opinion, I'll give you that. At least you admit your unbelief, which said unbelief is the basis for your confusion.

You overlook the fact that God does not force people to follow Him. He well knew what would happen, and that people would reject Him as you have, but I'm most intrgued by your assertion that Paul was excommunicated by James. Now that's a claim that isn't found in scripture, so that must mean you get your info from another doctrine which we have not received. We've been through this Paul thing before in this forum, and it still has absolutely no credibility. There is a very good reason why the books that are generally attributed to Paul's hand are STILL accepted as scripture in virtually all bibles.

The comments by Paul in scripture about those who opposed him was nothing more than Paul relating to how the doctrine of Christ which he preached wasn't being accepted as Jesus said it wouldn't. It's nothing more than Paul's testamony about his ministry and what he had to go through to show that even though he endured all that rejection, the gospel of Jesus Christ still prevailed.

But what's really telling is this; those that oppose Paul are forgetting one extremely important fact and that fact is that every believer is equal to the next believer, no matter what their office is within the church body.

Some are apostles, some are prophets, teachers, etc, but no one of them is greater than the other. They are all called to take the low seat and to not exhalt themselves, so to say Paul was inferior is a lie, for all come short of the glory of God. A believer is a believer and one with Christ. What you suggest is a lie, to promote some in the body as superior to others within the body. What you promote is another doctrine that we have not received, therefore it is rejected.

There is only one source for the claim that God somehow didn't plan adequately, and it ain't anything godly. What that is called is an accusation against God that brings into question God the Father's ability as Creator.


"And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." Revelation 12:10 (KJB)

[SongBird]

The star 'Algol', in the constellation Perseus, was known by the Hebrews by the name 'Rosh ha Satan' - Satan's Head, it was considered the most evil star in the heavens.

[lamourlady]

Do you realize that it is meaningless to man for Jesus to die... if Jesus was not fully man? For a God to die is no feat. It takes a man in kinship with fellow man to make a sacrifice have any meaning.

5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:5-8

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:15-20

 

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Hebrews 2:14-15

[independentWV]

Paul's ideas that Jesus only came in the appearance of men in Phil. 2:7 spawned Marcion in 144 A.D. to teach docetism. Jesus was fully human, and did not merely appear to have human flesh as Paul states.

Paul gave us a conception of two beings in Heaven before Christ came --- one was God and one had an "equality with God." Paul says Jesus had an "equality with God" but himself was created by God as the "first born of creation." (Col. 1:15.) This non-eternal Son while "equal to God" (although not eternal) supposedly also was the creator of everything else. (Col. 1:16.) Hence, a non-eternal being, as Paul depicts Christ, was the Creator of the heavens and earth including Man. After doing so, this Son then emptied himself of godhood, and supposedly came to Earth in the "likeness of men." (Phil.2:7.)

Apostle John in 2nd John, the epistle, condemned docetism as from the anti-Christ. "For many deceivers, are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) John is clear that the "Word became flesh;." Jesus was fully human, and did not merely appear to have human flesh as Paul states.

Do you realize that it is meaningless to man for Jesus to die... if Jesus was not fully man? For a God to die is no feat. It takes a man in kinship with fellow man to make a sacrifice have any meaning.

  Beautiful statement Kigore

[charrington]

Paul's ideas that Jesus only came in the appearance of men in Phil. 2:7 spawned Marcion in 144 A.D. to teach docetism. Jesus was fully human, and did not merely appear to have human flesh as Paul states.

Hmm I'm sure I'm not the fisrt to tell you but Paul excepted Jesus as flesh and blood. You know that whole spitting "Image" of his father thing? So many have said that shouldn't we discount them as well?

Paul gave us a conception of two beings in Heaven before Christ came --- one was God and one had an "equality with God." Paul says Jesus had an "equality with God" but himself was created by God as the "first born of creation." (Col. 1:15.) This non-eternal Son while "equal to God" (although not eternal) supposedly also was the creator of everything else. (Col. 1:16.)

Paul did not give the concept of two beings in heaven before Christ and he wasn't the first to talk about "The image of God" -- go back and read King Solomon's words, God himself produced him (Jesus) as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. (Proverbs 8:22-31) Especially verse's 30 & 31.

Also Depending on whom you attribute the writings of Psalms: (Psalms 90:2)
"The first born of all creation".

Also John spoke of this - John 1:1

So Paul was no different in his explanation then others before him and should not be taken any other way.
There was God and he created Jesus - That's it...

Hence, a non-eternal being, as Paul depicts Christ, was the Creator of the heavens and earth including Man. After doing so, this Son then emptied himself of godhood, and supposedly came to Earth in the "likeness of men." (Phil.2:7.)

"who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men." (Phil 2:6,7)

I just want to be clear here about this --- Through Christ all things came to be. Jesus was God's master worker and God used Jesus to bring every creation into existence. Cooperation between father and son as an architect and builder would work together to create a structure.

Apostle John in 2nd John, the epistle, condemned docetism as from the anti-Christ. "For many deceivers, are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and the antichrist." (2 John 1:7)

You already know Kilgore denies the bible and Christ himself yet you call him brother? Who's friends with the Antichrist then?

And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14) John is clear that the "Word became flesh;." Jesus was fully human, and did not merely appear to have human flesh as Paul states.
  Beautiful statement Kigore

Don't you find a lot if problems with the NT if you discount Paul? Just curious how you deal with
(Revelation 22:18,19)
I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

[Kilgore Trout]

I do not deny Christ...as a human being and a child of God , though it is my understanding that we are all the children of God.

[Kinpa]

Hmm I'm sure I'm not the fisrt to tell you but Paul excepted Jesus as flesh and blood. You know that whole spitting "Image" of his father thing? So many have said that shouldn't we discount them as well?
Paul did not give the concept of two beings in heaven before Christ and he wasn't the first to talk about "The image of God" -- go back and read King Solomon's words, God himself produced him (Jesus) as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. (Proverbs 8:22-31) Especially verse's 30 & 31.

Also Depending on whom you attribute the writings of Psalms: (Psalms 90:2)
"The first born of all creation".

Also John spoke of this - John 1:1

So Paul was no different in his explanation then others before him and should not be taken any other way.
There was God and he created Jesus - That's it...
"who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men." (Phil 2:6,7)

I just want to be clear here about this --- Through Christ all things came to be. Jesus was God's master worker and God used Jesus to bring every creation into existence. Cooperation between father and son as an architect and builder would work together to create a structure.
You already know Kilgore denies the bible and Christ himself yet you call him brother? Who's friends with the Antichrist then?
Don't you find a lot if problems with the NT if you discount Paul? Just curious how you deal with
(Revelation 22:18,19)
I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.

then where the hell was Jesus during the many centuries before he himself came? where all those souls that existed meaningless to God?simply because Jesus wasnt born ealy enough to have also died for their sins?  as far as friends of the anti christ, look at your friendship with your own ego,are you certain that satan's fingers havent been tampering with YOU? let's see, what was Lucifer's great sin? oh yeah, it was pride wasnt it? and yet your pride is of no consequence is it, because you have been saved?talk about false prophets LMAO~! a wolf in sheep's clothing using a work of the mind to lead others to your own sins? hmmmm...

[Kilgore Trout]

Quite simply the real problem we have here is people taking the bible literally , this creates too many conflicts because of perceptions , our perceptions are meant to interpret things in symbolic ways when it comes to something as subjective as the experience of God. Leave the literal and get the figurative and lose the conflict.

[Kinpa]

Quite simply the real problem we have here is people taking the bible literally , this creates too many conflicts because of perceptions , our perceptions are meant to interpret things in symbolic ways when it comes to something as subjective as the experience of God. Leave the literal and get the figurative and lose the conflict.

THAT is what is missing...many of the saints, and those quoted most often had that one thing, but this one thing is just as lacking in the masses as it was then...how many have the ears to HEAR God talking to them? in many cases, the ability to simply LISTEN could be said to be a virtue, to not judge, not throw accusations or name calling, leave those things to God, be kind, have a heart with true Charity, and do the service of listening....its quickly becoming a lost art amongst mankind...Patience and Love are all that's really necessary, that and the subduing of the ego...that quiet Inner Voice, It doesnt shout at you to get your attention, but when one doesnt listen to It, one most often goes astray...it makes no difference what your religious choice is, but it DOES make a difference which voice we listen to...Love or power??

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes Kinpa , great points.

[charrington]

then where the hell was Jesus during the many centuries before he himself came? where all those souls that existed meaningless to God?simply because Jesus wasnt born ealy enough to have also died for their sins?  as far as friends of the anti christ, look at your friendship with your own ego,are you certain that satan's fingers havent been tampering with YOU? let's see, what was Lucifer's great sin? oh yeah, it was pride wasnt it? and yet your pride is of no consequence is it, because you have been saved?talk about false prophets LMAO~! a wolf in sheep's clothing using a work of the mind to lead others to your own sins? hmmmm...

I posted that already - the scriptures tell you exactly where he was and what he was doing and every Christian knows WHY he was doing what he did. Have someone read that last post to you slowly. Seriously, I'm embarrassed for you. You have no understanding of anything scriptural. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so quick to boast his ignorance.

I know we've done this before so I apologize to the others here in advance for repeating the post. I'm sure you all are pulling your hair out now lol.

Antichrist occurs a total of five times, singular and plural, all of them in two of John’s epistles.

(1 John 2:18)
"Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour."

(1 John 2:22)
"Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son."

Notice that he says there here now? And also that there are "MANY" Antichrists? That is because the Antichrist is a composite - It's a group of people, religions and governments etc, that do not believe Jesus is the Christ,” and who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.

(2 John 7)
For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

(1 John 4:2-3 )
YOU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, 3 but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.

John’s inspired statements show the term to be broad in its application, embracing all those who deny that “Jesus is the Christ,” and who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.”

So according to the Bible - Gods own word - you and the others here that claim that Jesus is a myth, is an ideology, is not the son of God, was never here on earth in the flesh - You are the Antichrist class and always have been.

[Kilgore Trout]

Christ is spirit and charrington you seem to lack any trace of the humility love and compassion of the guide you claim. I wonder are you an agent of disinfo , because the example you set with your vanity and pride seems to be exactly what dissuades people from God in the first place.

[charrington]

I do not deny Christ...as a human being and a child of God , though it is my understanding that we are all the children of God.

But only one Christ - one perfect heavenly son of God - that all other things were created through -- including you and all life. Were you saying you are equal to Jesus Kilgore?

[Kilgore Trout]

But only one Christ - one perfect heavenly son of God - that all other things were created through -- including you and all life. Were you saying you are equal to Jesus Kilgore?

You should understand that the idea that Christ was perfect is nothing more than a tactic to leave you chasing a dogma tail.

What relevance does a "perfect" being have for man? None. You see when you finally realize that we are all God's children , Jesus was one of his children who was and is still on earth as a beacon for man , a lighthouse to signify the potential we all have as the children of our God , you will realise how Jesus was able to show his apostles to heal others. Because he was able to show them that by applying the principals of love and compassion and forgivness , miracles were to be attained by all of mankind.

Christians (orthodox) claim that Christ is the only one who can be perfect. We can be perfect through function. If we are functioning and moving toward the goal of love and compassion we can heal each other and ourselves.

To say that Christ is the only one to attain perfection is to set us on a path which will never be realised. If we could see that like any design , we have a purpose , if we perform that function/purpose consistently we are attaining perfection, by design.

It is a sad trick to be convinced that there is some separation between God Man and everything else, when we are all one.

[charrington]

Christ is spirit and charrington you seem to lack any trace of the humility love and compassion of the guide you claim. I wonder are you an agent of disinfo , because the example you set with your vanity and pride seems to be exactly what dissuades people from God in the first place.

Christ was Gods son and our Savior Kilgore you seen to lack comprehensive skills - and belief in the bible - I quote the bible - you on the other hand quote Kilgore - which is more vain? It's you that are maligning the bible and are constantly attacking Christians of any sort for their beliefs.

I have no reason to love what God hates. But you'd know that if you knew the bible. And I wonder Kilgore why you lie about your actions?

[Kilgore Trout]

Christ was Gods son and our Savior Kilgore you seen to lack comprehensive skills - and belief in the bible - I quote the bible - you on the other hand quote Kilgore - which is more vain? It's you that are maligning the bible and are constantly attacking Christians of any sort for their beliefs.

I have no reason to love what God hates. But you'd know that if you knew the bible. And I wonder Kilgore why you lie about your actions?

The "Bible" is written on the heart of the spiritually awake. These words of a book should only re affirm what your heart has already always known. Since you discount all experience and rely only on the words and experiences of others which are invalid because one cannot know about love or God without personal experience , you have only the "law" and none of the sprirt which is the actual cause for faith.

You feel in need of safety/security , your salvation , this is a trick of comfort for your ego , and the loss of your liberty to know God personally.

And what actions do I lie about?

[independentWV]

So according to the Bible - Gods own word - you and the others here that claim that Jesus is a myth, is an ideology, is not the son of God, was never here on earth in the flesh - You are the Antichrist class and always have been.

Who said the pre existing, equality with God non flesh Jesus? Paul

But only one Christ - one perfect heavenly son of God - that all other things were created through -- including you and all life.

Jesus tells us Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be

[lamourlady]

The "Bible" is written on the heart of the spiritually awake. These words of a book should only re affirm what your heart has already always known. Since you discount all experience and rely only on the words and experiences of others which are invalid because one cannot know about love or God without personal experience , you have only the "law" and none of the sprirt which is the actual cause for faith.

You feel in need of safety/security , your salvation , this is a trick of comfort for your ego , and the loss of your liberty to know God personally.

And what actions do I lie about?

Are you saying you are the only one who can attain this 'personal experience' and sit here and write about it, a mere man, and we are suppose to believe you?  Did the prophets not have a personal experience with God, without the Bible, and then write about it?  But, of course you won't answer this, because you are somehow higher than everyone else and will skirt around this issue.

[Kinpa]

I posted that already - the scriptures tell you exactly where he was and what he was doing and every Christian knows WHY he was doing what he did. Have someone read that last post to you slowly. Seriously, I'm embarrassed for you. You have no understanding of anything scriptural. I don't think I've ever seen anyone so quick to boast his ignorance.

I know we've done this before so I apologize to the others here in advance for repeating the post. I'm sure you all are pulling your hair out now lol.

Antichrist occurs a total of five times, singular and plural, all of them in two of John’s epistles.

(1 John 2:18)
"Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour."

(1 John 2:22)
"Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son."

Notice that he says there here now? And also that there are "MANY" Antichrists? That is because the Antichrist is a composite - It's a group of people, religions and governments etc, that do not believe Jesus is the Christ,” and who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.

(2 John 7)
For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

(1 John 4:2-3 )
YOU gain the knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this: Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, 3 but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.

John’s inspired statements show the term to be broad in its application, embracing all those who deny that “Jesus is the Christ,” and who deny that Jesus is the Son of God who came “in the flesh.”

So according to the Bible - Gods own word - you and the others here that claim that Jesus is a myth, is an ideology, is not the son of God, was never here on earth in the flesh - You are the Antichrist class and always have been.

those words dont give YOU license to judge me, not by far...now put that ego away, will you?

[Kinpa]

Christ was Gods son and our Savior Kilgore you seen to lack comprehensive skills - and belief in the bible - I quote the bible - you on the other hand quote Kilgore - which is more vain? It's you that are maligning the bible and are constantly attacking Christians of any sort for their beliefs.

I have no reason to love what God hates. But you'd know that if you knew the bible. And I wonder Kilgore why you lie about your actions?

what makes you believe that God hates at all, or is even capable of hate? the very idea is silly...try Loving what God Loves (ALL of It's creation) rather than judging and criticizing that which you dont agree with...Soul exists why? because God Loves It, i cant make it any plainer than that...

[Kinpa]

Are you saying you are the only one who can attain this 'personal experience' and sit here and write about it, a mere man, and we are suppose to believe you?  Did the prophets not have a personal experience with God, without the Bible, and then write about it?  But, of course you won't answer this, because you are somehow higher than everyone else and will skirt around this issue.

i cant speak for him, but i believe he said that anyone can attain the experience of God, try it sometime, just ask God, and ask with Love...

[lamourlady]

i cant speak for him, but i believe he said that anyone can attain the experience of God, try it sometime, just ask God, and ask with Love...

Did you not read what he wrote? 

Since you discount all experience and rely only on the words and experiences of others which are invalid because one cannot know about love or God without personal experience , you have only the "law" and none of the sprirt which is the actual cause for faith.

He claims we cannot rely on the prophets of the Bible, because they were mere men who wrote about their personal experiences of God and that they are INVALID, and then claims he has had this personal experience, has written about it here on this forum and we are to believe him, but not those who wrote the Bible?

Who here has discounted any personal experience with God?  I just told Kilgore to stop using the name of Jesus Christ as the basis of his personal beliefs if he doesn't believe IN Jesus Christ or the only book that pens any of Christ's beliefs.  Seems a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

He is twisting all over the place here and if you cannot see that, then I just don't know what to say, Kinpa

[Kinpa]

Did you not read what he wrote? 

He claims we cannot rely on the prophets of the Bible, because they were mere men who wrote about their personal experiences of God and that they are INVALID, and then claims he has had this personal experience, has written about it here on this forum and we are to believe him, but not those who wrote the Bible?

Who here has discounted any personal experience with God?  I just told Kilgore to stop using the name of Jesus Christ as the basis of his personal beliefs if he doesn't believe IN Jesus Christ or the only book that pens any of Christ's beliefs.  Seems a bit hypocritical, don't you think?

He is twisting all over the place here and if you cannot see that, then I just don't know what to say, Kinpa

you have avoided the issue, why have YOU not sought your own experience with God? as for using the name of Jesus Christ, well, all of you are doing the exact same thing, it makes no difference if you believe the bible or not, Jesus didnt write anything in the bible, the apostles did, although that fact cannot be proven either, therefore you all BELIEVE the apostle wrote these books, and thats quite different than KNOWING, therefore i ask again, why not ask for your own experiences and come to KNOW what you argue? and as for "twisting" the meaning, that has always been done how is anyone able to know exactly what Jesus meant by the words his apostles say he said, when none of them are here to be asked? why dont you ask them? ask Jesus. do you not believe it possible to receive an answer?

[lamourlady]

you have avoided the issue, why have YOU not sought your own experience with God? as for using the name of Jesus Christ, well, all of you are doing the exact same thing, it makes no difference if you believe the bible or not, Jesus didnt write anything in the bible, the apostles did, although that fact cannot be proven either, therefore you all BELIEVE the apostle wrote these books, and thats quite different than KNOWING, therefore i ask again, why not ask for your own experiences and come to KNOW what you argue? and as for "twisting" the meaning, that has always been done how is anyone able to know exactly what Jesus meant by the words his apostles say he said, when none of them are here to be asked? why dont you ask them? ask Jesus. do you not believe it possible to receive an answer?

No, you have.  You too, have skirted around my last post by drawing the focus upon me, when it is Kilgore I spoke of.  As a Christian, you know what I believe, if you know your Bible.  I use the name of Jesus Christ, based upon the son of God in the Bible.  It's strange to think of a book as just a fable and yet base your beliefs on them, as Kilgore does.

[Novus Ordo]

Feeble fables for feeble ego’s

Say it quick 10 times

[independentWV]

Are you saying you are the only one who can attain this 'personal experience' and sit here and write about it, a mere man, and we are suppose to believe you?  Did the prophets not have a personal experience with God, without the Bible, and then write about it?  But, of course you won't answer this, because you are somehow higher than everyone else and will skirt around this issue.

The kingdom of heaven is within you feeling his presence and love—and the desire to do good to others—these are all very personal experiences. The highest human concept of God's will is embodied in truth, beauty and goodness. Bearing the fruits of the spirit. 

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them.  Why, would you ask Kilgore or anyone for that matter to stop using the name of Jesus? Do you believe this?
 

[charrington]

those words dont give YOU license to judge me, not by far...now put that ego away, will you?

I'm just pointing out what the bible says mate -- judge yourself by those words, the rest of us here at least try to do that.  

You know what the "real" problem is here -- your first post in this area.

Yeah, talk about ego .. you just jump in just like Kilgore and tell everyone in the forum what you know is right and how stupid the rest of us are for believing in God. If you don't see that as the supreme egotism then you are completely retarded. No offense meant to the cerebrally challenged.

Every post where you actually talk about love and sharing has been condescending at best - you should be the one that takes a good look at himself and see if you meet your own standards, because you don't. You are truly a hypocrite. While you and Kilgore continue to bash and twist the faith of others here, based on your OWN opinions, (which no one seems to be interested in) I'll continue to point out your opposition to the holy scriptures and God - FROM the holy scripture.

I'm quoting you scriptures not giving you personal opinions - if you have problems with scriptures then your "real" issue is with God and not I.

[charrington]

You should understand that the idea that Christ was perfect is nothing more than a tactic to leave you chasing a dogma tail.

What relevance does a "perfect" being have for man? None. You see when you finally realize that we are all God's children , Jesus was one of his children who was and is still on earth as a beacon for man , a lighthouse to signify the potential we all have as the children of our God , you will realise how Jesus was able to show his apostles to heal others. Because he was able to show them that by applying the principals of love and compassion and forgivness , miracles were to be attained by all of mankind.

Christians (orthodox) claim that Christ is the only one who can be perfect. We can be perfect through function. If we are functioning and moving toward the goal of love and compassion we can heal each other and ourselves.

To say that Christ is the only one to attain perfection is to set us on a path which will never be realised. If we could see that like any design , we have a purpose , if we perform that function/purpose consistently we are attaining perfection, by design.

It is a sad trick to be convinced that there is some separation between God Man and everything else, when we are all one.

Megalomaniac. Kilgore you are beginning to make me see the benefits of doping the water with lithium. I'm lol-ing. We have to figure out how to keep you from ever talking to any NWO leaders.. they will force that law into effect immediately.

[charrington]

The kingdom of heaven is within you feeling his presence and love—and the desire to do good to others—these are all very personal experiences. The highest human concept of God's will is embodied in truth, beauty and goodness. Bearing the fruits of the spirit. 

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them.  Why, would you ask Kilgore or anyone for that matter to stop using the name of Jesus? Do you believe this?
 

The subject WV ... where there are two or more of whom? Satans followers? hmmm, do you believe that?

[charrington]

you have avoided the issue, why have YOU not sought your own experience with God? as for using the name of Jesus Christ, well, all of you are doing the exact same thing, it makes no difference if you believe the bible or not, Jesus didnt write anything in the bible, the apostles did, although that fact cannot be proven either,

Wrong again Kinpa - it's a historic fact. Modern scholars agree on most of the authors in the bible - I'd like to borrow an AJ quote here: "It's main stream news, admittedly, look it up people".

And though Jesus didn't physically write the bible he quoted it exclusively . Why?

therefore you all BELIEVE the apostle wrote these books, and thats quite different than KNOWING, therefore i ask again, why not ask for your own experiences and come to KNOW what you argue? and as for "twisting" the meaning, that has always been done how is anyone able to know exactly what Jesus meant by the words his apostles say he said, when none of them are here to be asked? why dont you ask them? ask Jesus. do you not believe it possible to receive an answer?

Jesus said he loved the Father - and that there was only one way to the father - he also said that the Fathers word (The bible) was the truth. Are you doing what the bible tells you to do or are you trying to discount the true meaning of Gods word which was endorsed by Jesus and do things they way you see fit?

[charrington]

Who said the pre existing, equality with God non flesh Jesus? Paul

Paul never denied Jesus as flesh and blood. All other members accepted Paul as an apostle and to say that Paul isn't valid or a valid part of the scriptures by your own reasoning is Blasphemy. You are saying that the Almighty God could not keep the bible and it's teachings in tack.
Again, I have to ask you how you get around  (Revelation 22:18,19) and (2 Tim 3:16,17). Seriously, not only are you taking away a few things but entire books of the bible? That's ridiculous.

You are misunderstanding what Paul is saying.

Jesus tells us Mark 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be

That's right the Great Tribulation. And ?

[charrington]

what makes you believe that God hates at all, or is even capable of hate? the very idea is silly...try Loving what God Loves (ALL of It's creation) rather than judging and criticizing that which you dont agree with...Soul exists why? because God Loves It, i cant make it any plainer than that...

Have you ever read the bible? Be honest.

Lets just talk about that for a minute - here's why I know you don't have any understanding of Jesus , God or the Bible. Because you say things that are the opposite of what the bible says.

Here's a couple of many Scriptures you might want to think about.

(Proverbs 6:16)
There are six things that God does hate; yes, seven are things detestable to his soul: 17 lofty eyes, a false tongue, and hands that are shedding innocent blood, 18 a heart fabricating hurtful schemes, feet that are in a hurry to run to badness, 19 a false witness that launches forth lies, and anyone sending forth contentions among brothers.

(Psalms 97:10)
10Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

How is it possible that Gods word says this and you don't know it? God has told every Christian to hate evil and wrong doing. He doesn't say that Christians should hate a person but hate the evil or wicked they do and to stay away from them completely.

That kinpa, is what the bible says - if you say that isn't right - then here again you have an argument with God and not me.

[independentWV]

Paul never denied Jesus as flesh and blood. All other members accepted Paul as an apostle and to say that Paul isn't valid or a valid part of the scriptures by your own reasoning is Blasphemy. You are saying that the Almighty God could not keep the bible and it's teachings in tack.
Again, I have to ask you how you get around  (Revelation 22:18,19) and (2 Tim 3:16,17). Seriously, not only are you taking away a few things but entire books of the bible? That's ridiculous.

You are misunderstanding what Paul is saying.
That's right the Great Tribulation. And ?

Show proof Paul was an Apostle.

Acts 15:3 ....Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.             Why did he go unto Apostles and elders if he was one?

Where did the true Apostles refer to him as an Apostle?  John in Rev. 2:2 false apostle and liar

Revelation 22:18,19 applies only to the book of prophecy (Revelations)

2 Tim 3:16,17 seriously why would I use an imitator when the real truth is available directly from the Father and son. No interpreter required.

Blasphemy is I become your father 1 Cor. 4:15-16    

[independentWV]

The subject WV ... where there are two or more of whom? Satans followers? hmmm, do you believe that?

You take a verse and with your own mind convert to?

[lamourlady]

Show proof Paul was an Apostle.

Acts 15:3 ....Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.             Why did he go unto Apostles and elders if he was one?

Where did the true Apostles refer to him as an Apostle?  John in Rev. 2:2 false apostle and liar

Revelation 22:18,19 applies only to the book of prophecy (Revelations)

2 Tim 3:16,17 seriously why would I use an imitator when the real truth is available directly from the Father and son. No interpreter required.

Blasphemy is I become your father 1 Cor. 4:15-16

The first account I produced [for you], O Theophilus, dealt with all the things which Jesus did and taught from the beginning, (2) until the day when Jesus was taken up [into heaven], having given instructions to those apostles whom He had selected through the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:1-3

I see that you trust that 'men' could decide who was to be an apostle, rather than rely on Jesus' own words and appointment through the Holy Spirit.  And if you still don't believe that, then YOU show the scripture where Jesus tells the disciples to choose their own, or did they take it upon themselves?  Jesus chose each of them, personally, He never chose Matthias, men did, why would it be any different for Paul?  Show me scripture where Jesus, Himself, appointed Matthias.

3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
6 So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
Acts 9

11 So the Lord said to him, “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying. 12 And in a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in and putting his hand on him, so that he might receive his sight.”
13 Then Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he has done to Your saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
Acts 9

Paul was the perfect candidate to witness to the lost, as he was a very lost soul, himself.  Now who is picking and choosing scripture? 

It is more than obvious that Paul set out many of the commands in the NT and with this new covenant, many don't like these new commands, so instead of obeying, they discredit the man so that they do not have to adhere to them.  How convenient.