Government Seizes Newborn Baby Over Political Beliefs Of Parents [Oathkeepers]

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Offline Dig

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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread617765/pg1

Here's pretty much the story:

He claims after his kid was born, Child Protection Service (not the organization he names, but the same idea) came and took her away. Claims the nurses took the kid under false pretenses to give to these agents.

Says they put a security guard outside their room to "follow his every move"

He claims the affidavit they gave him stated it was because he is with a "militia" group the oath keepers.

To me, it doesn't sound like the whole story.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline adissenter2

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this needs to be looked into fully & asap
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! Molon Labe! Come and take them!

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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Janvrin6228
2 minutes ago

Court is next week, I hope I can find a GOOD lawyer that will take this pro bono. These bastards are trying to say that my daughter is not safe with me because I am an OathKeeper WTF!!! IT ISN'T A DAMN MILITIA WHAT DON'T THEY COMPREHEND ABOUT THIS!!!

Offline Dig

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this needs to be looked into fully & asap

agreed. another oathkeeper was served a search warrant based on trumped up charges and was then found innocent.

but this needs to be looked into fully and the greater issue of CPS in general needs to continue to be exposed.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline AncientChild

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Yep, we need to get this one viral, if the whole story is being told. I posted a reply on Youtube encouraging them to get a copy of any paperwork they might have which states the reason(s) for the child's removal.

Offline Dig

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Has this claim been verified yet?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Dig

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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread617765/pg1

Considering that the oathkeeper's website has the categories and obvious space for such a story, I am not going to say suspicious yet, but curious as to why it's not there. Could be a lot of cross checking going on to verify before they post it. None of us have to commit to a view until there is more info. And even then, you know how that can be.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://dprogram.net/2010/10/07/government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/

UPDATE:

Watchman Noyes
I have a copy of the affidavit and I can tell you that it says verbatim these words “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as “Oath Keepers”, and had purchased several different types of weap…ons including a rifle, handgun and a taser.” (none of which is illegal, and anyone who has ever been to oathkeepers website knows that they are not a “militia”. I will not post the affidavit as it is still sealed information and I would be violating Mr. Irish’s rights in doing so. If people have questions and they are a part of the media, then I can put them in touch with him. Otherwise for now, this is all the information that we have.

Offline tritonman

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The affidavit is going to be posted at infowars and over at Ron Paul forums just as soon as it is faxed in .  Someone is supposed to be contacting Alex I heard.  Check out Ron Paul forums thread.

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2921065#post2921065

Note from Stewart Rhodes:

Here is my statement for now:

We are doing all we can to confirm and document this. But if is IS accurate, and a newborn child was ripped from her mother's arms because the parents were "associated" with Oath Keepers by simply being members of our online ning discussion forum, then this is a grave crossing of a very serious line, and is utterly intolerable. It cannot be done. It cannot be allowed to stand. if it is true, then I will do all in my power to stop it. We will pull out all the stops, every lawful means of seeing that this child is returned to her parents and that all persons responsible are held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. There can be no freedom of speech, no freedom of association, no freedom to even open your mouth and "speak truth to power," no freedom AT ALL, if your children can be black bagged and stolen from you because of your political speech and associations - because you simply dare to express your love of country, and dare to express your solidarity and fellowship with other citizens and with active duty and retired military and police who simply pledge to honor their oath and obey the Constitution. It was to prevent just such outrageous content based persecution of political dissidents that our First Amendment was written. If true, then this is as bad, and in fact worse, than any of the violations of liberty that our Declaration of Independence lists as the reasons for our forefathers taking up arms in our Revolution and for separating from England. We no longer have freedom at all if this is allowed to be done. And we will not let it stand.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers
Yale Law, 04
Army Airborne School, 83

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/

Stewart has just now as of 7:45PM PST, spoken to the father and he is faxing documents to Stewart. We are establishing a legal defense fund. Once it is confirmed through documentation that the father’s association with Oath Keepers was listed as a reason, even if among several reasons listed, for taking the child, we will actively pursue aggressive legal remedy and redress. We will assist in locating competent local legal counsel in New Hampshire and additional expert legal counsel from around the country in First Amendment and child custody law. Stewart, who has worked on several First Amendment  cases in State and Federal court will also volunteer his services to assist in the case Pro Bono.

Offline adissenter2

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Let me guess, this whole thing may have something to do with a new TIME MAGAZINE article
that totally associates many good people and groups with some serious nut jobs

Locked and Loaded: The Secret World of Extreme Militias Oct. 11, 2010 issue
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2022516-4,00.html#ixzz113OYB1L5

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! Molon Labe! Come and take them!

Offline Dig

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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2921065#post2921065

Note from Stewart Rhodes:

Here is my statement for now:

We are doing all we can to confirm and document this. But if is IS accurate, and a newborn child was ripped from her mother's arms because the parents were "associated" with Oath Keepers by simply being members of our online ning discussion forum, then this is a grave crossing of a very serious line, and is utterly intolerable. It cannot be done. It cannot be allowed to stand. if it is true, then I will do all in my power to stop it. We will pull out all the stops, every lawful means of seeing that this child is returned to her parents and that all persons responsible are held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. There can be no freedom of speech, no freedom of association, no freedom to even open your mouth and "speak truth to power," no freedom AT ALL, if your children can be black bagged and stolen from you because of your political speech and associations - because you simply dare to express your love of country, and dare to express your solidarity and fellowship with other citizens and with active duty and retired military and police who simply pledge to honor their oath and obey the Constitution. It was to prevent just such outrageous content based persecution of political dissidents that our First Amendment was written. If true, then this is as bad, and in fact worse, than any of the violations of liberty that our Declaration of Independence lists as the reasons for our forefathers taking up arms in our Revolution and for separating from England. We no longer have freedom at all if this is allowed to be done. And we will not let it stand.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers
Yale Law, 04
Army Airborne School, 83

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/

Stewart has just now as of 7:45PM PST, spoken to the father and he is faxing documents to Stewart. We are establishing a legal defense fund. Once it is confirmed through documentation that the father’s association with Oath Keepers was listed as a reason, even if among several reasons listed, for taking the child, we will actively pursue aggressive legal remedy and redress. We will assist in locating competent local legal counsel in New Hampshire and additional expert legal counsel from around the country in First Amendment and child custody law. Stewart, who has worked on several First Amendment  cases in State and Federal court will also volunteer his services to assist in the case Pro Bono.



Thanks for the updates!
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline jfranko4

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It's brilliant how quickly this has spread across the internet, hopefully the exposure will force them to give the baby back without any court proceedings. They wouldn't want this kind of thing getting out.

Offline Dig

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just an FYI...this thread is getting pinged like crazy since it was first put up. There looks to be an effort to guage responses to what seems like a targeted attack of oath keepers.

WTF is up with Billions being spent to track every single thing anyone who knows how to spell the word "constitution" does?
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline jfranko4

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Quote
just an FYI...this thread is getting pinged like crazy since it was first put up. There looks to be an effort to guage responses to what seems like a targeted attack of oath keepers.

this is going viral all over forums, facebook and youtube it could just be a lot of people are hearing about it and it's a pretty emotive topic.

Offline Dig

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What are Suspicious Activity Reports? SARs exposed!
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=187539.0

More evidence Bush=Soetoro: Pentagon revives Rumsfeld-era domestic spying unit
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=175838.0

Free Speech Killing DISCLOSE ACT Passes House by Invoking "Martial Law Rule"
Critics on both the left and the right say the act will disable grassroots political voices, including Tea Party movement
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=176680.0
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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If true, then this is as bad, and in fact worse, than any of the violations of liberty that our Declaration of Independence lists as the reasons for our forefathers taking up arms in our Revolution and for separating from England.  We no longer have freedom at all if this is allowed to be done.   And we will not let it stand.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers

Offline Dig

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this is going viral all over forums, facebook and youtube it could just be a lot of people are hearing about it and it's a pretty emotive topic.

Well whether low level CoIntelPro ops or just curious minds are flocking to this thread...

Everybody should be allowed to get a bit of truth



COULD THIS SCENARIO BE POSSIBLE? DOES THE DYNCORP CHILD SEX SLAVERY RING SNATCH PEOPLE'S CHILDREN AS AN INSTITUTIONALIZED TECHNIQUE OF TERRORIZING THE PUBLIC? DOES THE DYNCORP CHILD SEX SLAVERY RING ASSASSINATE PEOPLE LIKE GEORGIA SENATOR NANCY SCHAFER? DID CPS HAVE A MOTIVE BECUASE SHE EXPOSED THE CPS CHILD SNATCHING RING? No matter what the details are of this case (whether an SPLC/ADL/DHS/Chertoff provocation or a bona fide act of wholesale insanity), everyone needs to understand what Nancy was uncovering...

Report of Georgia Senator Nancy Schaefer on Corruption in Child Protective Services.

http://fightcps.com/2008/02/29/report-of-georgia-senator-nancy-schaefer-on-cps-corruption/


http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2005_06/senate/district50.htm

CPS Warrior Nancy Schaefer Gunned Down

Infowars.com

March 29, 2010

From the Associated Press:

State investigators say the husband of former state Senator Nancy Schaefer shot his wife before turning the gun on himself. The couple’s bodies were found in their north Georgia home Friday. The Georgia Bureau of Investigation conducted autopsies on the Schaefer’s Saturday—investigators say all evidence points to the deaths as a murder-suicide. The bodies of Nancy and Bruce Schaefer, 73 and 74 years old respectively, were found by their daughter at the couple’s home in Clarkesville. Nancy Schaefer was a two-term state Senator representing Georgia’s 50th district. She lost her seat in 2008. Schaefer was also a candidate for mayor of Atlanta, Georgia lieutenant governor and governor of the state.

The corporate media does not bother to mention that Schaefer exposed the abuses of CPS and the international child sex slavery ring.

Appearing on the Alex Jones Show last May, Schaefer detailed how CPS is involved in child trafficking rings (see video below). After watching Schaefer’s interview with Jones, if you think Schaefer was involved in a suicide pact with her husband, you may also be interested in a famous bridge for sale in Brooklyn.

Nancy Schaefer on Alex Jones: "CPS Criminality"

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw4xFKIYTzM&feature=player_embedded

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt7VPpkQ0co&feature=player_embedded

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0qV4JVoKYg&feature=player_embedded

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53U6JlvEhw&feature=player_embedded

Nancy Schaefer exposes the EVIL CPS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TcDTJlPWbE&feature=player_embedded

More: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=105660.0

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline Freeski

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvZRM-P46rI

The YouTube won't play for me (an error has occurred) but here's the original video description with many alternate sources. This is outrageous!

-----------

Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper's New Born From Hospital
New Hampshire, Wed. Oct. 6th, 2010

Last Night John Irish & Stephanie Janvrin had their new born baby girl taken away by government officials because of their involvement with Oath Keepers, a non violent constitutional organization. According to Irish, The Director of Security and the Head Nurse of the Hospital said "we want the pediatrician to check the baby in the nursery so that you can go home." The baby was wheeled out in the bassinet under the protest of Irish. Irish followed them out and took note of 3-4 men wearing suits with detective badges as well as 3 police officers.

The Division of Family Child Services proceeded to pat down John and inform the parents they would be taking the daughter. "They Stole our Child" says John Irish. An Affidavit was produced that claimed an affiliation with a militia called Oath Keepers. Irish claims Oath Keepers is a non violent organization. John and Stephanie were able to spend a few minutes with their daughter and were forced to leave. A security officer escorted the two out of the hospital.

George Hemminger
george4title(AT)yahoo.com

More Info:

Facebook info

URGENT! ~ OATHKEEPERS ALERT!
Request For Help! Please Read Attached Picture
Then, If you can help. Please contact Watchman Noyes
http://www.facebook.com/kan75
or his group page
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=78211532283
Citizens Against Government Tyranny

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1821086273
Stephanie Janvrin (the mother)

New Hampshire John Irish (father)
http://americanlibertyriders.ning.com/profile/JohnCIrish?xg_source=activity

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

Comment From John
Janvrin6228
26 minutes ago 3
This has been flagged as spam hide
This is Johnathon Irish, Brothers and Sisters, thank you for all of your support. janvrin6228@gmail.com is my personal email address if needed. Thank you all again for your support, if so needed I will send you our cell number just email me. I don't know what else to say right now, these bastards stole my daughter and she wasn't even 24 hours old. She was born at 2337 last night. I only have a few pictures of my baby girl, I can't even cry I am so pissed.

Oath Keeper Official Statement
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline Dig

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If true, then this is as bad, and in fact worse, than any of the violations of liberty that our Declaration of Independence lists as the reasons for our forefathers taking up arms in our Revolution and for separating from England.  We no longer have freedom at all if this is allowed to be done.   And we will not let it stand.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers

Here is the whole quote you posted earlier and the follow up. I would hate for us to take his statements out of context especially given the obvious provocation involved (even if everything is true...this is obviously an open provocation against those defending the US constitution against the radical, violent, fundamentalist terrorists at CPS):

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2921065#post2921065

Note from Stewart Rhodes:

Here is my statement for now:

We are doing all we can to confirm and document this.
But if is IS accurate, and a newborn child was ripped from her mother's arms because the parents were "associated" with Oath Keepers by simply being members of our online ning discussion forum, then this is a grave crossing of a very serious line, and is utterly intolerable. It cannot be done. It cannot be allowed to stand. if it is true, then I will do all in my power to stop it. We will pull out all the stops, every lawful means of seeing that this child is returned to her parents and that all persons responsible are held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. There can be no freedom of speech, no freedom of association, no freedom to even open your mouth and "speak truth to power," no freedom AT ALL, if your children can be black bagged and stolen from you because of your political speech and associations - because you simply dare to express your love of country, and dare to express your solidarity and fellowship with other citizens and with active duty and retired military and police who simply pledge to honor their oath and obey the Constitution. It was to prevent just such outrageous content based persecution of political dissidents that our First Amendment was written. If true, then this is as bad, and in fact worse, than any of the violations of liberty that our Declaration of Independence lists as the reasons for our forefathers taking up arms in our Revolution and for separating from England. We no longer have freedom at all if this is allowed to be done. And we will not let it stand.

Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers
Yale Law, 04
Army Airborne School, 83

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/

Stewart has just now as of 7:45PM PST, spoken to the father and he is faxing documents to Stewart. We are establishing a legal defense fund. Once it is confirmed through documentation that the father’s association with Oath Keepers was listed as a reason, even if among several reasons listed, for taking the child, we will actively pursue aggressive legal remedy and redress. We will assist in locating competent local legal counsel in New Hampshire and additional expert legal counsel from around the country in First Amendment and child custody law. Stewart, who has worked on several First Amendment  cases in State and Federal court will also volunteer his services to assist in the case Pro Bono.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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Stewart Rhodes:

The document John Irish sent to us is from the State of New Hampshire Judicial Branch; it is a Juvenile Abuse / Neglect Ex Parte Order with an attached affidavit.

This affidavit has a long list of reasons why the State became involved… one of the reasons: “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the, “Oath Keepers,” and had purchased several different types of weapons including a rifle, handgun and taser.”

There are other items listed in the affidavit besides the association with Oath Keepers.

That being said… even though OK is not a militia, since when is it a crime to be involved in a militia?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=263496&page=9

Offline Dig

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All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline citizenx

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bumped for updates

Note:  as a father, a former member of the military and a 9/11 truther, I am definitely interested in finding out more about this particular case.  I am sure there are many like me who are anxious to find out the truth about this matter. I've been lurking this thread myself.

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2921250&posted=1#post2921250

Were any of the other reasons listed anything serious like illegal drug use or past child abuse?

Yes there are some serious allegations, however these are allegations... it does not mean they are true. But even a more fundemental point is that the mere association with OK or any other organization is not valid grounds for taking someones child away. If we allow that to happen people will be afraid to speak. That's called chilling their speech in first amendment law lingo.

Offline jfranko4

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People are trying to get this trending on google: "Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper's New Born From Hospital"

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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People are trying to get this trending on google: "Government Agents Seize Oath Keeper's New Born From Hospital"

I think that's way too long.

Offline citizenx

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"Allegations of past druge use", WTF!

Quick, somebody call CPS on the president in that case.

I hope if this is at all true, there were more logical reasons than that.

There should have to be immediate cause to believe a child is in danger or being dangerously neglected.

IF that really is the case, it is horese$hit, too, regardless of the OK thing.

Offline Freeski

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I can't view the original video or the ronpaul forum link - are they working for anyone else?
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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"Allegations of past druge use", WTF!

Quick, somebody call CPS on the president in that case.

I hope if this is at all true, there were more logical reasons than that.

There should have to be immediate cause to believe a child is in danger or being dangerously neglected.

IF that really is the case, it is horese$hit, too, regardless of the OK thing.

Past child abuse, not drug use.

Offline jfranko4

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I think that's way too long.

won't google just pick a certain part of that to trend if it does then articles will link from it.

Offline citizenx

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http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=2921250&posted=1#post2921250

Were any of the other reasons listed anything serious like illegal drug use or past child abuse?

Freeski, right.

This is what I was referring to.

Offline tritonman

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What if this is an attempt to discredit militias and oathkeepers ?  Could they have more on the couple ?  Perhaps they threw the oathkeepers part in just to paint us all as home grown terrorists of some sort.  Maybe it will go down like,( see how they defend their own even when(x,y,or z)took place).  Perhaps they knew this would go viral?  I just do not trust anything the powers that be do any longer and feel that they plan some of this stuff out under several layers of deception.  We do know that they are patient and it could just be a step toward a further plan.  I think we need to see the affadavit before going too far.  In other words,Keep your powder dry boys.

Offline Dig

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What if this is an attemt to discredit militias and oathkeepers ?  Could they have more on the couple ?  Perhaps they threw the oathkeepers part in just to paint us all as home grown terrorists of some sort.  Maybe it will go down like,( see how they defend their own even when(x,y,or z)took place).  Perhaps they knew this would go viral?  I just do not trust anything the powers that be do any longer and feel that they plan some of this stuff out under several layers of deception.  We do know that they are patient and it could just be a step toward a further plan.  I think we need to see the affadavit before going too far.  In other words,Keep your powder dry boys.

That is why no matter what the case, continue exposing the actual facts...

They did put Oath Keepers on an affidavit...WTF does that mean? What does that have to do with anything? And there is a bona fide CPS snatching system in the US overseen by the Bilderberg controllers. And Stewart is 100% measured in his responses (as he has always been). Of course they will try to attach all sorts of crap, but the more they react chaotic like this, the more exposed the fascists are. People are not asleep anymore and their tactics are exposed in light speed.
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately

Offline tritonman

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I Agree that Stewart seems to be handling it in the correct manner.  These evil fu%$% just make me nervous as they are so damned sleezy.

Offline Freeski

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Here's an apparent recording of the father's account (maybe this is a clone of the original YouTube - I don't know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G0wMHrSKBw

7 min.
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/

UPDATE :  10/07/2010 10.53PM PST -- We have confirmed that the affidavit in support of the order to take the child from her parents  states ,along with a long list of other assertions  against both parents, that “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the Oath Keepers.”     Yes, there are other, very serious allegations.  Out of respect for the privacy of the parents, we will not publish the affidavit.  We will leave that to Mr. Irish.   But please do remember that allegations do not equal facts -- they are merely allegations (and in my  experience as a criminal defense lawyer in small town Montana I saw many allegations that proved to be false).

But an even more fundamental point is that regardless of the other allegations, it is utterly unconstitutional for government agencies to list Mr. Irish’s association with Oath Keepers in an affidavit in support of a child abuse order to remove his daughter from his custody.    Talk about  chilling speech!   If this is allowed to continue, it will chill the speech of not just Mr. Irish, but all Oath Keepers and it will serve as the camel under the tent for other associations being considered too risky for parents to dare.   Thus, it serves to chill the speech of all of us, in any group we belong to that “officials” may not approve of.   Don’t you dare associate with such and such group, or you could be on “the list” and then child protective services might come take your kids.

Note that there is no allegation that Oath Keepers is a criminal organization or that Mr. Irish, in the context of his association with Oath Keepers, is committing any crime.  We are not advocating or planning imminent violence, which is the established line where free speech ends and criminal behavior begins (See Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), which, as Wikipedia notes, “held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action. In particular, it overruled Ohio’s criminal syndicalism statute, because that statute broadly prohibited the mere advocacy of violence.”   We don’t even advocate that the current serving use violence of any kind, let alone imminent violence.  We ask them to merely stand down.

Neither is Oath Keepers a militia, for that matter.   However, EVEN IF WE WERE, that also would not be a valid reason to take someone’s child away.  PRIVATE MILITIAS, JUST LIKE  OTHER VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS, ARE NOT ILLEGAL, and it is not a crime to associate with them.   To the contrary, we have an absolute right, won by the blood of patriots, and protected by our First Amendment, to freely associate with each other as we damn well please so long as we are not advocating or planning  imminent violence or directly harming our children (and no, teaching them “thought crime” like “All men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,” or that those who swear an oath should keep it, does not count -- at least not yet).   A parent associating with a militia is not  engaged in child endangerment  and is not evidence of child endangerment (despite the shrill screeching of people such as Mark Potock of the SPLC, who desperately wants it to be so).   Just recently a Time Magazine article described how the reporter visited the happy home of a militia member and his family -- and those kids are still at home, where they belong, as is the case with many th0usands of children across this country who have parents who “associate” with private militias and all manner of other non-criminal groups.   You had damn well better defend the rights of those parents to freely associate in their militias and keep their kids while doing so.   You can bet that if you let such an association be listed as grounds for taking children from their parents that it won’t only be militia folks who have their rights violated.   Homeschoolers, evangelical Christians, gun owners, etc. will also be on the hit list.  Just wait.  Remember Pastor Niemöller’s timeless warning:

They came first for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

A modern version might read like this:

They came first for the militia members,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a militia member.

Then they came for the three percenters,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a three percenter.

Then they came for the Oath Keepers,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t an Oath Keeper.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

So, defend the right of even the most hardcore militia members to freely associate without that right being chilled and suppressed by means of the threat of taking their kids.

But this particular listing of an association with Oath Keepers as one of the reasons for taking a child from her parents is all the more absurd, taking it to a whole other level of Alice in Wonderland “down is up” and up is down,” when you consider that a significant percentage of the members of Oath Keepers are current serving  police, fire-fighters, and military personnel.  Three of our state chapter presidents are current serving  police officers.   How can “associating”  with such fine men and women who are daily trusted with tremendous power and responsibility constitute  evidence of child endangerment?   How can it be that a New Hampshire police department can consider someone associating with other current serving police officers as evidence of child abuse and endangerment?   Only in the bizzaro world of the SPLC are public servants who commit to simply following the law, keeping their oaths by refusing to violate your rights ,considered “extreme” and “dangerous.”

This is the camel’s nose under the tent.  We need to fight even this one instance of such a violation of the right to associate and to peaceably assemble, and we need to push back against the new world of thought crime that is being relentlessly pushed upon us.   If this listing of mere association with Oath Keepers is allowed to be used in this case to justify, even in part, removing a newborn from the custody of her parents, with nothing else alleged about Oath Keepers except that the father “is associated” with this organization, that will have a sweeping chilling effect on the First Amendment protected rights of freedom of speech, peaceable assembly, association, and petition for redress of grievances for all of us -- and it will only be the beginning.

OK, now it is TIME TO PUSH BACK -- peaceably, of course, using our voices and pens.  Let the officials in question know that you strongly oppose their listing of an association with Oath Keepers as one of the reasons for taking this child.  Let them know you insist that they remove that “reason” from the affidavit and issue a public retraction, and until they do so, they will hear from all of us, and also from our legal counsel.   And we won’t relent until they respect our First Amendment protected rights of free speech and association and cease and desist this chilling of those rights.  Be professional, but firm.   Make them hear you.

Stewart Rhodes

Offline ImpeachBarrySoetoro

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http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10/07/oath-keepers-statement-about-video-titled-government-agents-seize-oath-keepers-new-born-from-hospital/comment-page-3/#comment-12531

I am going to rack out because my fiancee and I are over exhausted with all of this. If any of you think this is a “scam” or something of the sort watch Alex Jones tomorrow I think he has me on at 12 noon. People will know then, my daughter was stolen the only scam going on here is the one that the State of NH is pulling.
Comment by Johnathon Irish — October 7, 2010 @ 11:10 pm

Offline citizenx

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Actually, you know, I'm willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt right now for what it's worth, but I think AJ will probably get to the bottom of this if it is a scam of any sort.  I think we'll know soon enough.

If it's true, this guy has been truly through hell, and he definitely deserves support IMO.

I'm sure wondering what the hell is going on in New Hampshire -- of all places!?