SHITEGEIST 3: THE T[H]URD BOWEL MOVEMENT | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

[TheCaliKid]

^ Thread title = awesomeness! 

[Michal Ptacnik]

I don't know. I mean, a good joke and all, but there are people here (myself included) who don't hate ZTM or the movies, it is not so much of a pan-forumic thing, actually to my surprise I found rather few co-defenders here... why not change the name back to Zeitgeist: Moving Forward? That's the official title, and it is up to the debaters what they will make of it.

[Michal Ptacnik]

The original film copy pasted large chunks from real truthers movies... But it had all this made up rubbish about religion straight from the Elites Secret Mystery Religion and False Solutions advocated by our Elite Enemies.

Nice to know that it did not stop you from searching deeper to find the truth.

You would be surprised as to how many, if not actually MOST New Agers are quite wake up about global tyranny, as are theosophists, real theosophists, not imagined conspirators and they will agree with their New Ager cousins, mostly, that the current establishment is bad. They will most likely even support the more fringe idea (esposed by many fund. Christians) that there are black magicians or Satanists behind the current world problems. You are spitting in the face of the possibly largest group of allies that you have. Whether or not they are able to do something for real is another matter, but 99% won't begin anything, Christian, New Ager or Atheist; you really can't hate them for that. They do help to change the public consciousness by asking questions just as you do.

Btw. There really are big differences between the NA and Theosophy. Theosophy is a single, if painfully diverse and dilluted system of mystery initiation while NA is a briad religious movement, much younger, that is too diverse to even summ up by a common umbrella term other than just call it New Age. Please refrain from supposing that the two are equal. Yes NA did take some ideas from Theosophy, but many systems did; HPB was a very brillian woman, who was bound to be misunderstood. I've adressed that issue above.

Things being as they are Theosophy, true Theosophy has much closer to fundamentalist Christianity than to watered down New Age, in the mode of thought it esposes; and it is yet further from watered down Churchianity. True fundamentalist Christianity is a SPIRITUALITY, not a religion. Therefore, incidentaly, it would be OK for ZTM which only wants to do away (and not too strongly at that) with the supperstitious adherence to, as Christians say, "doctrines of men" that is esposed in the mainstream churches.

[feeditup]

Number 3 was not number 1 or 2 , much more information and truth , but we all know the agenda Eco slave state blah blah blah. I would like to here about the suppressed inventions so that we can all live happly ever after, In are current state or better

[Michal Ptacnik]

Number 3 was not number 1 or 2 , much more information and truth , but we all know the agenda Eco slave state blah blah blah. I would like to here about the suppressed inventions so that we can all live happly ever after, In are current state or better

I've seen some presentations on suppressed inventions and when you show me an inventor living off the grid on magnetic power, I'll believe that. Otherwise it is at the very least unfeastable, if not outright pseudoscience.

Zeitgeist does not rattle you about global warming, and there ARE real ecological problems. Also, incidentally, we ARE living in such a way that the Earth "is not big enought for us." Obviously, it is a problem of lifestyle not of the number of people, the Earth could support fifty billions of us, but not as we live now. ZTM shows this real problem and offers a real alternative.

And, incidentally, the lifestile problem can not be helped (unless you want a tyranny in one form or another) without changing the system. And if you don't solve the lifestyle problem, you will have problems of overpopulation and they will result in a natural tyranny based on scarcity. Therefore the change of system is not only sensible but a logicla way to stop tyranny. Where is a flaw in my thinking?

Btw. There was one poster that said that the circular cities would not work, would not be buildable, I'd like him to go deeper on the subject, if he would.

As for the shape and it's apparent repulsiveness to some, circular they are because it is the most compact and therefore transport and grid efficient form, not to be "slave cities." I live in a very compact house that has everything centrally connected and we are not slaves to our power grid; the same with the computer, it would be your helper, not your master.

[feeditup]

ya you missed me man, Its a great film but it surly has and agenda .

[jesussdad]

I've seen some presentations on suppressed inventions and when you show me an inventor living off the grid on magnetic power, I'll believe that. Otherwise it is at the very least unfeastable, if not outright pseudoscience.

Zeitgeist does not rattle you about global warming, and there ARE real ecological problems. Also, incidentally, we ARE living in such a way that the Earth "is not big enought for us." Obviously, it is a problem of lifestyle not of the number of people, the Earth could support fifty billions of us, but not as we live now. ZTM shows this real problem and offers a real alternative.

And, incidentally, the lifestile problem can not be helped (unless you want a tyranny in one form or another) without changing the system. And if you don't solve the lifestyle problem, you will have problems of overpopulation and they will result in a natural tyranny based on scarcity. Therefore the change of system is not only sensible but a logicla way to stop tyranny. Where is a flaw in my thinking?

Btw. There was one poster that said that the circular cities would not work, would not be buildable, I'd like him to go deeper on the subject, if he would.

As for the shape and it's apparent repulsiveness to some, circular they are because it is the most compact and therefore transport and grid efficient form, not to be "slave cities." I live in a very compact house that has everything centrally connected and we are not slaves to our power grid; the same with the computer, it would be your helper, not your master.

reminds of a funny line i heard the other day. the earth can support 2 billion americans or 20 billion africans. not exact quote but near enough.

[Matt Hatter]

One thing I do not understand is HOW, How will people be motivated to work in this system.

HOW do you reward people if money is removed.

Robots cannot do EVERYTHING for us. Who will actually build everything, be our doctors, psychitrists, collect unpaid bills, repair a roof or install a sink.

Who will do the tasks robots will not?

i am amazed Joseph did not address this issue.

[Novus Ordo]

One thing I do not understand is HOW, How will people be motivated to work in this system.

HOW do you reward people if money is removed.

Robots cannot do EVERYTHING for us. Who will actually build everything, be our doctors, psychitrists, collect unpaid bills, repair a roof or install a sink.

Who will do the tasks robots will not?

i am amazed Joseph did not address this issue.

check out Z3 again >> to 2:05mins

[Michal Ptacnik]

One thing I do not understand is HOW, How will people be motivated to work in this system.

HOW do you reward people if money is removed.

Robots cannot do EVERYTHING for us. Who will actually build everything, be our doctors, psychitrists, collect unpaid bills, repair a roof or install a sink.

Who will do the tasks robots will not?

i am amazed Joseph did not address this issue.

1. Robots we now have (not "we can have") can not do everything. Ancient greeks used to phillosophise that slavery was fundamentally necessary for maintaining civilization and so never moved from it. When Christianity abolished slavery in southern Europe a new, more vibrant system did emerge and slavery was suddenly obsolete. When that system degenerated (colonate, serfdom), an even newer system did fuel a society-wide change.
Now, if the people demand that they be not forced to work, the society, and technological focus will change and suddenly we will discover that the vast majority of jobs can be replaced and that it had been menial to begin with and the people will work only on what they really want to work. No one will cry for the past.

2. Those jobs that really can not be replaced will be the higly intellectual ones, so they are not exactly the definition of boredom. But yes, ZTM works on voluntarism and there will have to be some form of regularity in that voluntarism; but it will be better still than the slavish "work for a boss or live in poverty!"

The questions that would pop up in my mind would be time control and quality control, but that is not an unsolvable problem, though I myself don't have a good solution (just a mediocre one).

If there are not enough volunteers, society around you will start deteriorating and THEN there will be enough volunteers; it will once again be "our" society, we make it or break it, we constitute it, economy once again meets reality; now the system has all but divorced from that principle.
Were there enough volunteers for the colonies in Virginia in winter when the food was scarce? I am no expert but usually whole famillies would help with public work, for free, even if they themselves were well stocked. I like that system a whole lot more than what we have now: You don't have food? Your problem, you're a bad person, you're lazy, etc. and I won't help you, I'll in fact hate you for it because you don't fit my expectations of what a person should be like.

As for the positive motivation... well, Adam Smith and other classics of slavism were wrong in presuming that a populace left to their own devices will simply lie under a tree... or perhaps become couch potatoes; couch potatoes are the result of the modern system of enforced work discipline, aka. slavery by any other name; it drains creativity, pure and simple, unless you are a member of a higher "caste" that can reach more interesting jobs. I used to do a menial job and after a few hours I was brainwashed, tired and unable to do anything but to lay down and stay there... a few years of that would probably turn me into a total couch potato, it is insanity to demand this of the populace and to expect they will be anything but "blobs, useless eaters."
"(Enforced) Work makes a better man" is a totally flawed worldview, the best motivation has always been an internal one: I want to do something, to try something, to see something built, to see something flourish...

[Michal Ptacnik]

ya you missed me man, Its a great film but it surly has and agenda .

You have an agenda as well, you probably want to depose the banksters. So, similarily, ZTM and the movie has an agenda in trying to establish a better world system. Yes, it has an agenda indeed and it does not hide it, and it is not a bad agenda, all things considered.

[mr anderson]

When it comes down to it there are only a few fundamentals;

* Not infringing on the safety or rights of others; freedom of speech / religion / philosophy
* The right to own property
* National sovereignty; nations forming a collective, a whole. Individual cells that form an organism.  
* The right of movement
* The right to advocate or oppose and initiate alternatives that run side-by-side the Venus Project.

So if I want to own a car, I will. If I don't, I won't.

If I choose to own 1Ha of land for my house, I will.

If anybody wants to impose a system I disagree with by coercion, force or incremental change to the detriment of humanity and I choose to defend myself, I will.

All the while adhering to the fundamentals.

[Novus Ordo]

When it comes down to it there are only a few fundamentals;

* Not infringing on the safety or rights of others; freedom of speech / religion / philosophy
* The right to own property
* National sovereignty; nations forming a collective, a whole. Individual cells that form an organism.  
* The right of movement
* The right to advocate or oppose and initiate alternatives that run side-by-side the Venus Project.

So if I want to own a car, I will. If I don't, I won't.

If I choose to own 1Ha of land for my house, I will.

If anybody wants to impose a system I disagree with by coercion, force or incremental change to the detriment of humanity and I choose to defend myself, I will.

All the while adhering to the fundamentals.

Selfish and flawed fundamentals that perpetuate type zero, but I understand your conditioned reasoning..

[Michal Ptacnik]

When it comes down to it there are only a few fundamentals;

* Not infringing on the safety or rights of others; freedom of speech / religion / philosophy
* The right to own property
* National sovereignty; nations forming a collective, a whole. Individual cells that form an organism.  
* The right of movement
* The right to advocate or oppose and initiate alternatives that run side-by-side the Venus Project.

So if I want to own a car, I will. If I don't, I won't.

If I choose to own 1Ha of land for my house, I will.

If anybody wants to impose a system I disagree with by coercion, force or incremental change to the detriment of humanity and I choose to defend myself, I will.

All the while adhering to the fundamentals.

ZTM will not infringe in these. Only if gets so massively successful that nations worldwide will be adopting it you would have a problem but that would be a completely different world. It would be like if you wanted to own slaves today for the public consciousness. if it ended up that way you would probably see why you don't need any of these fundamentals in millions of practical examples all around you and so you will probably agree why the future has to be as it has to be. But I don't think even optimists would deem that possible in the forseeable future.

[Novus Ordo]

I agree Michal, I was really only looking at his 2nd and 3rd  tbh’

[37]

I'm gonna start my own cult...it obviously isn't hard.

Tell them what sucks about the current situation then offer them some fantastic idea that can never come to fruition in their lifetimes.



Then live off of their donations for the rest of my life...hey, Josephus is right, we don't have to work!

[Novus Ordo]

That’s the problem 37 your trying to reason this idea in your lifetime, your great grandchildren might have different values to you! 

[37]

Barnum is laughing his ass off...

[Novus Ordo]

If you only knew..lol

[Ze1tge1st]

I'm gonna start my own cult...it obviously isn't hard.

Tell them what sucks about the current situation then offer them some fantastic idea that can never come to fruition in their lifetimes.



Then live off of their donations for the rest of my life...hey, Josephus is right, we don't have to work!

I don't want to start a blame war, but have you looked around this site lately? See the ads? The money bombs? What do these do exactly? Oh, right, you're fighting the good cause, I forgot, sorry. Even Peter has to earn some money to make his movies and run things, it's not a RBE yet, he's smart enough to realize this. This whole thing is for the future, you or I might not see it in our lifetime, but that does not mean it will never happen. It starts in the womb, then you learn about the world and its values, later you decide what to do with this knowledge. If we're supposed to have a chance of a better future, it has to start now and with our kids.

Everyone wants the best for our children, right? You might feel this movement is 'evil' because it reminds you of books and movies with similar agenda. Don't be too quick to judge, though. I can see how much Michal Ptacnik is trying to convince you that this movement is not bad or evil, but he is trying to help people that have no say in this world. You're lucky to be chatting on these forums or even have access to Internet, just imagine how many don't simply because of their life experience or where they were born. Not all people on this planet have such privileges. They could very well have, but money and different laws is stopping them.

Realize that Peter is not trying to 'profit' to live happily ever after, but he needs it just as much as you do to pay the bills or produce something. Even Alex Jones needs money to make his movies and pay his employees. We still live in a world that requires monetary exchange, one would be stupid if trying to act like a child and ignore this fact, we all know what happens when you walk into a store and take whatever you like without exchanging money for it. He is required to depend on money in the current world affairs, it's as simple as that.

Try not to base all you assumptions from movies or fiction, it is not real and you're creating and agenda where there should be none in the first place.

[EvadingGrid]

I don't want to start a blame war, but have you looked around this site lately? See the ads? The money bombs? What do these do exactly? Oh, right, you're fighting the good cause, I forgot, sorry. Even Peter has to earn some money to make his movies and run things, it's not a RBE yet, he's smart enough to realize this. This whole thing is for the future, you or I might not see it in our lifetime, but that does not mean it will never happen. It starts in the womb, then you learn about the world and its values, later you decide what to do with this knowledge. If we're supposed to have a chance of a better future, it has to start now and with our kids.

Everyone wants the best for our children, right? You might feel this movement is 'evil' because it reminds you of books and movies with similar agenda. Don't be too quick to judge, though. I can see how much Michal Ptacnik is trying to convince you that this movement is not bad or evil, but he is trying to help people that have no say in this world. You're lucky to be chatting on these forums or even have access to Internet, just imagine how many don't simply because of their life experience or where they were born. Not all people on this planet have such privileges. They could very well have, but money and different laws is stopping them.

Realize that Peter is not trying to 'profit' to live happily ever after, but he needs it just as much as you do to pay the bills or produce something. Even Alex Jones needs money to make his movies and pay his employees. We still live in a world that requires monetary exchange, one would be stupid if trying to act like a child and ignore this fact, we all know what happens when you walk into a store and take whatever you like without exchanging money for it. He is required to depend on money in the current world affairs, it's as simple as that.

Try not to base all you assumptions from movies or fiction, it is not real and you're creating and agenda where there should be none in the first place.

Starting a CULT based on the Elites Mystery Babylon Religion is not the same as trying to earn an honest crust,

[Kilgore Trout]

Starting a CULT based on the Elites Mystery Babylon Religion is not the same as trying to earn an honest crust,

The only reason the "elite" have esoteric or "mysterious" knowledge is because the church/government has lied to man for thousands of years.

[Geolibertarian]

The only reason the "elite" have esoteric or "mysterious" knowledge is because the church/government has lied to man for thousands of years.

No argument there.

       http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

[egypt]

I'm gonna start my own cult...it obviously isn't hard.

Tell them what sucks about the current situation then offer them some fantastic idea that can never come to fruition in their lifetimes.



Then live off of their donations for the rest of my life...hey, Josephus is right, we don't have to work!

Yeah.  How about ~Never~ able to occur at all, not just in their lifetimes!  They live in a silly dream world.  All they have to do is look at the mindset of the elite, in the past.  Do Z persons really believe they are going to have a huge high-rise as their home & live a life of ease with persons in charge who set up a murder *system* that not only robs their bank accounts, but makes use of their hair, skin & gold in their teeth?  Now that's pretty sick actions that don't come near benevolence, don't you think?

If the Z world comes to pass, I would bet that those utopia-dreamers will be:

1. eating a manufactured gruel, day-in and day-out as they SLAVE LABOR (no work? yeah right)
2. living a very short life so they can't detect anything is wrong (and, serve their best purpose as a strong body before it wears out)
3. living only to be euthanized at a pre-determined date (or earlier if their teeth are no good & require a gold cap)
4. Not having children (all will be cloned)
5. Not having a family, nor any social life.
6. And NO, not having sex in a free manner, or otherwise.

Wake up Zeitgeisters!  Look at what they are doing right now!  Look at China!  There's a good thing huh?  Maybe you should move to China?  They say it is the model.  They say it is all just fine and a done deal.  No morphing for the future is planned, there.  The new empty cities to house millions are NOT as you seem to think they will be huh?

Love, e

[Optimus]

Barnum is laughing his ass off...

"There's a sucker born every minute." — P.T. Barnum

[Kilgore Trout]

No argument there.

       http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

Thanks for this link , a lot of really important info there , people should read a little and get a tatse for some deeper truth...

[Kilika]

No argument there.

       http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

I'm being sincere Geo, do you really believe that stuff at 30ce? If you do, then that explains your previous comments. I've been trying to figure your position out and where it originates, and now I know.

I'm my opinion, that site is total heresy, and God only knows what bible version the author is using, but that is one messed up version. I stopped counting after I read about 4 lies in the first few paragraphs.

It's amazing to what length people will go to in an attempt to discredit the Holy Bible. And the real misdirection is that Paul has nothing to do with salvation anyway, so it really is a moot point. Jesus saves, not Paul.

Ultimately, the truth is that a person can be saved without ever hearing the name Paul. And the whole argument is baseless really because if a person rejects what was penned by Paul, then they are rejecting scripture and really don't believe in the divinity of the Holy Bible anyway, because Jesus Himself says a little leaven will leaven the whole lump, so, according to the anti-Paul doctrine, it makes the whole bible suspect and a fraud, according to that crazy false doctrine.

In other words, that site is a joke.

[egypt]

Geolibertarian:  This link is fantastic.  Thanks for providing it.

http://www.infowars.com/prison-planet-forum/

[egypt]

http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

After reading the piece above, I am so grateful and all makes much more sense to me!

Indeed, taking into consideration Paul's (Saul's) nwo occupation as a tax collector, I am wondering if indeed he simply wasn't an agent sent out to accomplish his mission of disinformation!

Love, e

[Kilgore Trout]

http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

 I am wondering if indeed he simply wasn't an agent sent out to accomplish his mission of disinformation!

I concur greatly.

[amazon]

http://30ce.com/paulinechristianity.htm

After reading the piece above, I am so grateful and all makes much more sense to me!

Indeed, taking into consideration Paul's (Saul's) nwo occupation as a tax collector, I am wondering if indeed he simply wasn't an agent sent out to accomplish his mission of disinformation!

Love, e

/

And let's not forget
stoning to death Christians !
No wonder he changed his name !

Never liked Paul...
thought he gave Christianity a bad name.

Guy falls from his horse,
hits his head,
has a temporal lobe injury
which leads to a seizure,
which he calls a "religious experience"
and claims he has been chosen by Jesus.

Just a bit over-the -top,
as in "grandiose".

Nice post, MS E !

Thanks for that very interesting link, GeoLib !

[37]

Not surprised this has turned into a "what's wrong with christianity" discussion.

Anything to avoid the "what's wrong with Zeitgeist" discussion we should be having. 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not surprising because as much as you try to distinguish yourself from Christianity , I suspect that you and most others' are biased originally form Z's take on religion.

[chrisfromchi]

Z's take on religion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx0_hk5AEwI

Z just took/stole it from jordan maxwell's the naked truth at 5:00 minutes.

the entire thing is re-edited/rehash from other movies at the time when youtube was really hitting off. Its a well done reedit and it brought a lot of attention to "the movement".

Youtube celebrity status achieved and now the donation scam mixed in with know-it-all college hippies on the internet...and rely on them to do their marketing for them.

oh and release lesser sequels to remain relevant.

[Kilgore Trout]

No ,  I get it , I am aware that the religious part of it does not originate with PJ.

[chrisfromchi]

No ,  I get it , I am aware that the religious part of it does not originate with PJ.

therefore those people who could and would be inclined to beleive such religious views are being used by those who possible have no interest (PJ) in what was said to begin with.

The cylons themselves don't even believe it and they are using those that would to garner them attention and funding.

[Kilgore Trout]

therefore those people who could and would be inclined to beleive such religious views are being used by those who possible have no interest (PJ) in what was said to begin with.

The religious views aside , look at the human message.

[mr anderson]

Selfish and flawed fundamentals that perpetuate type zero, but I understand your conditioned reasoning..

Well I did expect a moral / intellectual superiority complex to show itself eventually.

I understand your conditioning too.

You're only hearing what you want to hear. Uhm selfish? Oh right I forgot that it's the collective hive mind we should be thinking of...

Not infringing on the safety or rights of others; freedom of speech / religion / philosophy

The right to advocate or oppose and initiate alternatives that run side-by-side the Venus Project.

So if I want to own a car, I will. If I don't, I won't.

If I choose to own 1Ha of land for my house, I will.

- That's not selfishness... I'm merely stating that I want the freedom to do such things without infringing upon the rights of others. And that's selfish? Because I think of other people before I enact that freedom? Wow.

And seeing that they are "flawed" fundamentals and you're obviously choosing the VP, then what problem and business is it of yours that others have the freedom to choose otherwise? Can we not have a choice between the Venus Project and something else? Or is it join or perish like pond scum? Selfish much?

ZTM will not infringe in these. Only if gets so massively successful that nations worldwide will be adopting it you would have a problem but that would be a completely different world. It would be like if you wanted to own slaves today for the public consciousness. if it ended up that way you would probably see why you don't need any of these fundamentals in millions of practical examples all around you and so you will probably agree why the future has to be as it has to be. But I don't think even optimists would deem that possible in the forseeable future.

Thankyou Michal for a reasoned, respectful response.

It seems that there is an array of views and methods I've witnessed amongst the ZTM advocates from the measured to the word for word to the fundamentalist / militant.

True ZTM philosophy would dictate that no rights will be infringed upon so long as those rights do not harm others. While others have no problems with dictating 'how it will be, whether you like it or not'.

Owning slaves would contravene the rights of others completely so I fail to see that analogy bearing any weight. However people do not practice these fundamentals whatsoever... Land is stolen, people are murdered for paper money, the Government is restricting the movements of society through Agenda 21. They are bypassing the people with the SPP (NAU). These are not the fundamentals in action at all my friend.

All I want for myself and others is to exercise my rights without infringing upon the rights of others and vica versa... That should be A-OK with the VP, 100%.    

Truly if the ZTM allows people not to participate in the VP and allows for the parallel creation of alternative societies for people to explore other systems, even if they are flawed, then that's freedom. That's not at all saying I do not admire the goals of the VP, rather that I know where it'll head eventually.

For now we are only seeing the hard shell, once we sink our teeth through that shell into the gooey centre and realise the potential for it either being good or bad is when I want my freedom to choose for or against.

[chrisfromchi]

The religious views aside , look at the human message.

The message that we become like the cylons?

or the neo-hippie one?

[Kilgore Trout]

The message that we become like the cylons?

or the neo-hippie one?

The one that purposes value of the person over the bank account and the rest of the materialist ethos.