Obama's mother is a US citizen, but no one knows if Barry is one

[jofortruth]

Obama Birth Certificate Issue: (NEW INFORMATION)
http://www.mediafire.com/?2tvssrltp16dpue

NOTE: After doing much research on this issue, I am convinced he is legit and a US Citizen (even though probably a Dual Citizen at one point). Take a look and see if I have proven my case! If you don't think I have, then tell me why!

It's time to put this one to rest, so we can focus on more pressing issues. I for one am tired of this one being rehashed over and over again. Time to move on!

[jofortruth]

I forgot to activate the first two links in document. Here's a revision:
http://www.mediafire.com/?84xd4ltcc9akuuq

I deleted the first version. SO USE THIS ONE!

[citizenx]

I am not necessarily a "birther" per se, but I am not convinced.

Yes, the "certification of birth" he has submitted for public perusal and supposedly used in the vetting process during the campaign is a legal form of a birth certificate, BUT the "certification" he has produced in lieu of an actual "birth certificate (long form)" is unsigned, hence INVALID.

He should have to produce proof that he was eligible -- period.  Just like any other candidate for higher office.

Personally, I also think he may be covering up something else entirely as you do.  I think he was CIA.  He worked for a CIA front company when he was supposedly at Columbia and may have gone on at least one mission to Pakistan as a CIA agent/operative/asset/.  I think his mother Stanley Ann Dunham was CIA.  She worked for the Ford Foundation -- possibly another CIA front.  She was also married to a high official in the Indonesian MILITARY
DICTATORSHIP -- his step-father, Soetoro/Soetero.

He may also be covering up genealogical information.  His biological father may be the communist and drug-dealer Frank Marshall Davis -- one of his mentors.

Additionally, he may be covering up the date of his birth.  he might have been born in Hawaii before statehood, two years earlier which would explain why his Kenyan citizenship was revoked two years early.  It should have been revoked when he was twenty-three by kenyan law, but was "automatically" revoked it would appear, when he was twenyty-one and before the day on which Hawaii received its statehood.

Or he may simply have been born in Kenya as many suppose.

In any event he has provided no concrete proof that those people are wrong.

Ergo, LTC Lakin and others facing criminal charges should have their cases dismissed by the military (JAG) judges and prosecutors.

Also, there should be an independent prosecutor/investigator invested with looking into this matter unless and until Obama (Soetoro?) submits the appropriate paperwork for officials and the public and they are proven legitimate.

[jofortruth]

I find it interesting this was moved out of the mainstream forum so quickly before anyone had time to look at the information. Do we want an honest debate on this issue or not?

I think that Obama did not handle this properly, however can you backup all of the assertions you made here, Citizen?

I just gave you proof of my assertions and this is my changed opinion. We need an honest debate on this issue. I have heard all the things you just said but where is the proof?

Dig, or whoever moved this, did you even look at my evidence?

It's time for both sides to be honest on this issue. I want a real debate and moving this post will not achieve that. I would appreciate it if you would move it back.

Are we not looking for the truth on this issue as well as many others? I am!

[citizenx]

Well, first of all, we are not working in concert.  I am not a mod.  I have nothing to do with your thread being moved.

This does seem to be the appropriate subforum for this topic, however.

It happens to me all the time.  Sometimes I realize I should have posted it in the right subforum to begin with.


As for the rest of your last post:

My assertions are simple -- look at the document Obama has submitted.  Where are the needed signatures?

The rest is admittedly speculation.  Not mine, but others.  But they are not as wild as they may sound.

If you believe the military has a solid case against LTC Lakin, that is up to you, but from my perspective it is certainly not open-and-shut.

The burden of proof should be on the President and his supporters.

And, yes, I am absolutely looking for the truth.

If you've got some new truth I haven't seen yet, I'd love to see it, actually.

No one would be gladder to see this issue put to rest than I.

Obama could put it to bed with one stroke of his pen.

He hid it with one on his first day of office.

[Freeski]

Bump for later.

[citizenx]

Actually, the part about him being CIA is fairly well-established and not "wild" at all at this point.  I believe Wayne Madsen has covered this issue very well lately, and I'll try to find a link to that material for you.  I think it's actually precisely up your ally as far as what they are really trying to conceal might be.

The CIA loves dual citizens and people with two passports in general.

Obama's passport information is also top top secret thanks to hei executive order day one.  What was he covering up with that?  The trip or trips to Pakistan and other countries?  On belhalf of the company?  Buisness International Corporation, that is the CIA front company he worked for by his own admission.

He was a lot more than a "community organizer" before he ran for office, I can tell you that.

[jofortruth]

Did you take the time to look at my info? This topic was meant to be about the birth of Obama, not his adult life. We can talk about that in another place.

I would like to discuss my info on it's own merit aside from all these adult issues.

A child has no say in Who becomes their parents.

I was referring to Dig or whoever the op was, not you.

Since you are interested in this topic would you give my info a look and then discuss that only? I want your opinion.

Thx!

[citizenx]

Actually, I did look at it, but the document on the first page proves nothing.  it is not even the original -- just something the Hawaiian authorities produced recently.

You haven't really answered my question.  Where's the copy with the doctor's signature?  That would clear this whole business up and put the matter to rest onece and for all, IMO.

[birther truther tenther]

As being a "birther" I have to comment on this.

Look, Barry Soetoro might have been born in Hawaii, but all we want to see is the "longform" birth certificate.  I have mine.  What's so hard about furnishing one document?  The White House has all the time in the world to crank out EOs, PDDs and 2000 page bills to be signed, but can't furnish one piece of paper to shut us up once and for all.

Instead Soetoro posts a computer printout certificate of birth with no Health Dept seal and no signatures as his proof.  Then MSM talking heads tell you that a computer printout with no seal and no signatures is absolute total proof that he was born in Hawaii, and you are a conspiracy tinbucket hat nutjob if you question its authenticity.   That crappy printout raises big red flags that there are shenanigans going on with his Natural born status.   

If I were to turn a paper like that into the Motor Vehicle Division as my proof of identification to get a driver's license, the DPS would escort me out in cuffs and charge me with forgery.  The certificate of birth that Soetoro has is a f**king joke.

Let this be a lesson for the future.

We must make it a law in our respective 50 states to require ALL candidates for office to submit a longform birth certificate for eligibility.  this "birther" issue will never come up again, once that law is passed.

I feel someday we might have an illegal immigrant from Mexico running for the teleprompter in chief. Then what?

It's time to put this one to rest, so we can focus on more pressing issues. I for one am tired of this one being rehashed over and over again. Time to move on!

If you want "to move on", and "focus on more pressing issues" then stop talking about 9/11.

OK, I'm being sarcastic. But I'm mocking your bulls**t quote.

I feel the birther issue is super important because if it's true that Soetoro is ineligible, it NULLIFIES everything he has done since he stepped foot into office.

[citizenx]

... Soetoro might have been born in Hawaii....What's so hard about furnishing one document?  The White House has all the time in the world to crank out EOs, PDDs and 2000 page bills to be signed, but can't furnish one piece of paper to shut us up once and for all.

Instead Soetoro posts a computer printout certificate of birth with no Health Dept seal and no signatures as his proof.  Then MSM talking heads tell you that a computer printout with no seal and no signatures is absolute total proof that he was born in Hawaii, and you are a conspiracy tinbucket hat nutjob if you question its authenticity.   That crappy printout raises big red flags that there are shenanigans going on with his Natural born status.  

On this, agreed 100% -- and that is the real issue.

I feel the birther issue is super important because if it's true that Soetoro is ineligible, it NULLIFIES everything he has done since he stepped foot into office.

This is the justification they are going to try to use to prevent us from ever finding out the truth -- that it would create a constitutional crisis, nullifying everything he has done as president.  On this, I do not necessarily agree.

A future president though can nullify his (mostly ilegal) executive orders, and a future congress can repeal any laws he has signed into effect.

That is the "up" side.

[Kilika]

Actually, the "Certification of Live birth" is official with out signatures, but it's not to be used in the same manner as the "Certificate of Live Birth". They are two different type documents used for different legal reasons. The "Certification" is no proof of citizenship since it doesn't have the doctor, hospital, etc.

jofortruth, sorry, but I have to agree you present nothing new, and you also are mistaken about "natural born". Just because a person is born outside the US to citizen parents, that does not make them a US citizen eligible to run for president. There is a reason that "natural born" is used only there. The point was to make sure people understood that the person must be born on US soil. Your position is full of opinion, but has little legal basis.

Sorry jofortruth, but your wrong, or your a government shill. I'd like to think your just mistaken.

[citizenx]

Well, it's my understanding that either the "certification of birth" or the "birth certificate", as long as they possess proper seals and signatures are proof of citizenship, but this bozo and his handlers and lackeys have provided neither-- one must assume because they do not (yet?) exist.

In any event, Jo, I think you can see what you have presented isn't likely to change anybody's mind just yet, including mine, and Lefty, birther, and I all have different points-of-view.  So, the idea that there is some sort of monolithic "birther" mentality that just refuses to see the truth just ain't the case.

From a really objective perspective the administration's case just doesn't hold water.  And this material doesn't really add anything new that they haven't put out there already.

[Nailer]

I find it interesting this was moved out of the mainstream forum so quickly before anyone had time to look at the information. Do we want an honest debate on this issue or not?

I think that Obama did not handle this properly, however can you backup all of the assertions you made here, Citizen?

I just gave you proof of my assertions and this is my changed opinion. We need an honest debate on this issue. I have heard all the things you just said but where is the proof?

Dig, or whoever moved this, did you even look at my evidence?

It's time for both sides to be honest on this issue. I want a real debate and moving this post will not achieve that. I would appreciate it if you would move it back.

Are we not looking for the truth on this issue as well as many others? I am!

It's like this.

why would he spend over $ 1 million dollars keeping his records hidden/sealed from the public unless he was hiding something.
2nd  any person who is smart and money wise would spend $35-$50 and get a certified copy of the long form ato provide the proof needed to kill the rumors..

I believe obammy is a illegal alien who pulled one hell of a scam on the American sheeple.

[Kilika]

His very first presidential act on his first day in office was to sign an executive order locking up all his personal files anywhere they might exist. That's a fact.

Executive Order #13489

http://www.infowars.com/obama-signs-executive-order-barring-release-of-his-birth-certificate/

That's change alright, from any previous president. You have to ask why he did it in the first place, and also ask why is he different than all the previous presidents that prevents him from revealing his various career paperwork like normal presidents have done? What's he going to do when he's out of office like other presidents? What will his presidential library be, a saftey deposit box that no one has the key to? Yeah right. The guy is a fraud and should be put on trial for treason.

[Satyagraha]

I forgot to activate the first two links in document. Here's a revision:
http://www.mediafire.com/?84xd4ltcc9akuuq

I deleted the first version. SO USE THIS ONE!

From jofortruth's PDF:

"I am satisfied, after looking at this information, that Barack Obama is a US Citizen, and thus qualified to be President. I don’t like his policies, but this issue needs to be put to rest.
This is my opinion. If you can prove me wrong, then I could change my opinion. I’m just sick of hearing about this issue, so I decided to investigate it for myself.
There are more important issues that need our attention, so it’s time to move on and stop spending time on this one. This is just one more distraction!
Also, both sides need to stop the lies and distortions. Our Country will only suffer, if this nonsense continues. We need to spend our time more wisely, as there is much we need to do on other fronts!"

It looks like you've made the case that he is a citizen by virtue of the fact that his mother was a citizen in residence for 10 years prior to his birth in Kenya; the fact of which gave him automatic citizenship. The 'lie' is that he was born in Hawaii. This is what he's covering up - but the citizenship issue is not in question, based on the rules that you've outlined well in your research. And I agree; time to put this to rest and deal with the treason instead.

The question is why this guy spends millions on covering up the location of his birth (since we can see that being born in Kenya or Timbucktoo was not a barrier to citizenship*)... political reasons? It's a dead issue. When I hear Phil Berg on Tarpley's show, talking about his push to bring a suit against Obama for the citizenship issue, I have to wonder if Phil has seen any of the documentation you've outlined in your summary of the research you've done. It would seem the answer is 'no' - because, even if he gets this into court, he's fighting a losing battle. The citizenship issue is not in question. The birthplace is. But does that matter at this point?

*And the one ambiguous issue, the question of "natural born" is just ambiguous enough to bring the case to court; but will be decided by the SCOTUS, and what do you think the decision will be? That he is declared not a 'natural born' citizen is not going to happen, period.

[tritonman]

I was referring to Dig or whoever the op was, not you.

Uhhh, Joe are you loosing it here?  Did you start this thread or not?  If so then that makes you the OP and not Dig or anyone else.  I do not even see Dig posting let alone being the original poster.

[citizenx]

It looks like you've made the case that he is a citizen by virtue of the fact that his mother was a citizen in residence for 10 years prior to his birth in Kenya; the fact of which gave him automatic citizenship. The 'lie' is that he was born in Hawaii. This is what he's covering up - but the citizenship issue is not in question, based on the rules that you've outlined well in your research. And I agree; time to put this to rest and deal with the treason instead.

The question is why this guy spends millions on covering up the location of his birth (since we can see that being born in Kenya or Timbucktoo was not a barrier to citizenship*)... political reasons? It's a dead issue. When I hear Phil Berg on Tarpley's show, talking about his push to bring a suit against Obama for the citizenship issue, I have to wonder if Phil has seen any of the documentation you've outlined in your summary of the research you've done. It would seem the answer is 'no' - because, even if he gets this into court, he's fighting a losing battle. The citizenship issue is not in question. The birthplace is. But does that matter at this point?

*And the one ambiguous issue, the question of "natural born" is just ambiguous enough to bring the case to court; but will be decided by the SCOTUS, and what do you think the decision will be? That he is declared not a 'natural born' citizen is not going to happen, period.

Well, I don't think it is clear that he is or isn't a citizen, let alone a natural born citizen just yet -- as it isn't clear where and when he was born.  If he WAS born outside of the United States to his mother who was too young at the time supposedly to confer automatic citizenship on him outside of the United States at the time from what I have seen, it really does matter where and when he was born.

I think the issue really goes to honesty, however, and this is the reaon for the whole cover up.  If he was caught in such an egregious lie, he would no longer have any moral authority to lead the country regardless of the legal consequences.  He would likely have to step down.  (Lord knows there are many better reasons why he should do so already!)

I think this is the main reason for the cover-up now.  Obviously, this was not the original reason for the cover-up.

[Satyagraha]

I think the issue really goes to honesty, however, and this is the reaon for the whole cover up.  If he was caught in such an egregious lie, he would no longer have any moral authority to lead the country regardless of the legal consequences.  He would likely have to step down.  (Lord knows there are many better reasons why he should do so already!)

I think this is the main reason for the cover-up now.  Obviously, this was not the original reason for the cover-up.

Yes, the coverup is about where he was born. I think that no matter what legal arguments Phil, or anyone who can successfully bring this before the SCOTUS, can make - they would not decide against Obama. The court is too 'owned' - as we have seen by their treasonous decisions in the last session. And I have to agree with jo on this, we need to focus on the more important issues - you called "many better reasons" - that have a direct impact on our health, our freedoms and our way of life. Obama is a flash in the pan; a puppet carrying out his orders. Let's focus on the people pulling his strings.

[Letsbereal]

No Obama isn't born in the U.S. he's born in Kenya, everybody knows.

[America2]

Actually, the "Certification of Live birth" is official with out signatures, but it's not to be used in the same manner as the "Certificate of Live Birth". They are two different type documents used for different legal reasons. The "Certification" is no proof of citizenship since it doesn't have the doctor, hospital, etc.

jofortruth, sorry, but I have to agree you present nothing new, and you also are mistaken about "natural born". Just because a person is born outside the US to citizen parents, that does not make them a US citizen eligible to run for president. There is a reason that "natural born" is used only there. The point was to make sure people understood that the person must be born on US soil. Your position is full of opinion, but has little legal basis.

Sorry jofortruth, but your wrong, or your a government shill. I'd like to think your just mistaken.

Couldn't it also be the case that this whole "birth certificate" hoopla is JUST THAT-a *distraction* to the masses to get everyone debating and distracted?

I'm no fan of Mike Rivera, but he said he found out from his sources in Hawaii(where he resides too, I think) that Obama DOES have a US birth certificate locked away there.

No, I'm not defending Obama at all, but we need to look at things objectively here.

Also, why wasn't there any uproar over Obama's 2008 opponent McCain, who was NOT naturally US born?

[agentbluescreen]

His very first presidential act on his first day in office was to sign an executive order locking up all his personal files anywhere they might exist. That's a fact.

Executive Order #13489

http://www.infowars.com/obama-signs-executive-order-barring-release-of-his-birth-certificate/

That's change alright, from any previous president. You have to ask why he did it in the first place, and also ask why is he different than all the previous presidents that prevents him from revealing his various career paperwork like normal presidents have done? What's he going to do when he's out of office like other presidents? What will his presidential library be, a saftey deposit box that no one has the key to? Yeah right. The guy is a fraud and should be put on trial for treason.

Yeah Al Gore's old, unused "lock box"....  LOL
 

[Satyagraha]

Couldn't it also be the case that this whole "birth certificate" hoopla is JUST THAT-a *distraction* to the masses to get everyone debating and distracted?

I'm no fan of Mike Rivera, but he said he found out from his sources in Hawaii(where he resides too, I think) that Obama DOES have a US birth certificate locked away there.

No, I'm not defending Obama at all, but we need to look at things objectively here.

Also, why wasn't there any uproar over Obama's 2008 opponent McCain, who was NOT naturally US born?

In Jofortruth's PDF file, this quote on the issue of McCain's birth in Panama:

"The term "natural born citizen" is not used anywhere else in the constitution, and it has never been the subject of any federal court ruling. Hence, its exact meaning could be subject to controversy.

While some have suggested that perhaps a "natural born citizen" must have been born on US territory (i.e., in keeping with the definition of a citizen given in the 14th Amendment) -- and news reports dealing with presidential eligibility almost invariably misstate the rule in this manner -- the majority opinion of legal experts seems to be that the term refers to anyone who has US citizenship from the moment of his or her birth -- i.e., someone who did not have to be "naturalized" because he/she was born "natural" (i.e., born a citizen).

The first Congress enacted a citizenship law which stated that "the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens". [Act of Mar. 26, 1790, ch. 3, 1 Stat.104.] This strongly suggests that the phrase was understood by the framers of the Constitution to refer to citizenship by birth.

At least three Presidential candidates in recent memory were born outside the US proper:

• Barry Goldwater, the 1964 Republican candidate, was born in the Arizona Territory in 1909 (Arizona did not become the 48th state until 1912). Goldwater lost the 1964 election to Lyndon Johnson.

• George Romney, a 1968 Republican hopeful, was born in Mexico in 1907 to American parents who had moved there to escape anti-Mormon persecution in the US. (Contrary to a widely held popular misconception, by the way, Romney's parents were settlers in Mexico, not missionaries.) Romney's campaign fizzled following a gaffe about his having been "brainwashed" by the military establishment into supporting US involvement in the Vietnam conflict.

• John McCain, the 2008 Republican candidate (and also an early Republican hopeful in 2000), was born in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 to American parents.

Some questions were raised at the time regarding both Goldwater and Romney's eligibility for the nation's highest office, but no formal legal challenge was mounted in either case. McCain's eligibility for the Presidency was also questioned by some (both in 2008, and also during his 2000 campaign). The US Senate passed a resolution (S.Res. 511 – See on next page) in April 2008, expressing their non-binding opinion that McCain did qualify as a natural-born citizen. And in a federal district court case in September 2008 (Robinson v. Bowen), a judge denied a request for a preliminary injunction against McCain's appearing on the ballot in California.

We will probably never really know whether an American citizen born outside the US can become President (or Vice-President) until a lawsuit involving such a candidate finds its way into the courts. This could happen, of course, if a foreign-born candidate were elected and the electoral college's choice were challenged in court; or, more likely, if such a candidate's right to federal campaign subsidies (matching funds) were questioned, or if a challenge were mounted against a foreign-born candidate's right to be included on a state ballot.

[Shorebreak]

My suspiscion is that Obama was recruited by Brzezinski while Brzezinsky was Dean of Russian Studies at Columbia, and  while Obama was a political science student at Columbia who wrote his thesis on Russian Nuclear Disarmament.

[jofortruth]

Actually, I did look at it, but the document on the first page proves nothing.  it is not even the original -- just something the Hawaiian authorities produced recently.

You haven't really answered my question.  Where's the copy with the doctor's signature?  That would clear this whole business up and put the matter to rest onece and for all, IMO.

I agree. They should show us his real birth certificate. However, from the information we have, we can deduct he could have been born in Kenya, but since his mom was a US Citizen, that makes him a US citizen by all intents and purposes. I'm referring to the law at the time and the dual citizen issue. I think it is a valid point.

Yes I also agree that Obama and his admin could done a better job explaining and proving this than they did. The reason they probably didn't could be two fold: 1) to give us something to ruminate about endlessly and distract us, and 2) and possibly a future court case on the meaning of "natural born". I don't know what's up with that, but they will find a way to use it in the courts in the future I will bet with Gov Arnold.

That said, even if his mother was visiting in Kenya when she had him, doesn't mean he isn't a US citizen. He would be, by virtue of her being a citizen (1 parent). Look at the laws at the time. That is all I'm saying.

[jofortruth]

Actually, the "Certification of Live birth" is official with out signatures, but it's not to be used in the same manner as the "Certificate of Live Birth". They are two different type documents used for different legal reasons. The "Certification" is no proof of citizenship since it doesn't have the doctor, hospital, etc.

jofortruth, sorry, but I have to agree you present nothing new, and you also are mistaken about "natural born". Just because a person is born outside the US to citizen parents, that does not make them a US citizen eligible to run for president. There is a reason that "natural born" is used only there. The point was to make sure people understood that the person must be born on US soil. Your position is full of opinion, but has little legal basis.

Sorry jofortruth, but your wrong, or your a government shill. I'd like to think your just mistaken.

It's amazing how people resort to "government shill" when they don't agree with someone. Leftyleo, I think you know better. 

I look for the truth on all issues, and will change my opinion when I find new info. I think this has become an issue that is wasting our time, when we could be using it to dig into other issues regarding this pathetic administration. I don't agree with his policies any more than those of Bush when he was in office.

I never said he shouldn't produce his full birth certificate. That is a given! However, we have to work with what we have for the time being.

Sure, they could be leaving this open ended to use it in the future. Time will tell on that one if another court case comes up to somehow help Arnold get his wishes to become President one day. It is very possible that will be attempted. However, ARNOLD is not a natural born citizen period and would be a travesty if they do that.

I'm asking for an honest debate on the issues, where emotion doesn't rule the day. Until we learn to do this, we won't solve anything and the true government shills will rule as they keep us confused and fighting on every issue.

[jofortruth]

Well, it's my understanding that either the "certification of birth" or the "birth certificate", as long as they possess proper seals and signatures are proof of citizenship, but this bozo and his handlers and lackeys have provided neither-- one must assume because they do not (yet?) exist.

In any event, Jo, I think you can see what you have presented isn't likely to change anybody's mind just yet, including mine, and Lefty, birther, and I all have different points-of-view.  So, the idea that there is some sort of monolithic "birther" mentality that just refuses to see the truth just ain't the case.

From a really objective perspective the administration's case just doesn't hold water.  And this material doesn't really add anything new that they haven't put out there already.

Like I said, I want an honest debate. This is not about changing minds. We all have our own independent thinking on the issues here, and that is a good thing. If we all thought alike we would be no better than when our Congressmen all vote alike when you know damn well that they have different opinions but were forced to vote in lockstep in different issues.

I'm glad we all think differently on the issues. Once we all think alike, we're in trouble and will never find answers. 

[jofortruth]

It's like this.

why would he spend over $ 1 million dollars keeping his records hidden/sealed from the public unless he was hiding something.
2nd  any person who is smart and money wise would spend $35-$50 and get a certified copy of the long form ato provide the proof needed to kill the rumors..

I believe obammy is a illegal alien who pulled one hell of a scam on the American sheeple.

Yes, that is a good question and you have a right to your opinion! It would be helpful if we knew the answers to those questions for sure, but that doesn't change what the law said at the time of his birth. That's the issue i'm looking into.

[jofortruth]

His very first presidential act on his first day in office was to sign an executive order locking up all his personal files anywhere they might exist. That's a fact.

Executive Order #13489

http://www.infowars.com/obama-signs-executive-order-barring-release-of-his-birth-certificate/

That's change alright, from any previous president. You have to ask why he did it in the first place, and also ask why is he different than all the previous presidents that prevents him from revealing his various career paperwork like normal presidents have done? What's he going to do when he's out of office like other presidents? What will his presidential library be, a saftey deposit box that no one has the key to? Yeah right. The guy is a fraud and should be put on trial for treason.

And if you look back in history, haven't most of our Presidents done the same thing? I don't think he's the first to do that. I find it intellectually dishonest, but it seems to be a routine with these guys. They are secretive about everything, and that has to change.

[jofortruth]

It looks like you've made the case that he is a citizen by virtue of the fact that his mother was a citizen in residence for 10 years prior to his birth in Kenya; the fact of which gave him automatic citizenship. The 'lie' is that he was born in Hawaii. This is what he's covering up - but the citizenship issue is not in question, based on the rules that you've outlined well in your research. And I agree; time to put this to rest and deal with the treason instead.

The question is why this guy spends millions on covering up the location of his birth (since we can see that being born in Kenya or Timbucktoo was not a barrier to citizenship*)... political reasons? It's a dead issue. When I hear Phil Berg on Tarpley's show, talking about his push to bring a suit against Obama for the citizenship issue, I have to wonder if Phil has seen any of the documentation you've outlined in your summary of the research you've done. It would seem the answer is 'no' - because, even if he gets this into court, he's fighting a losing battle. The citizenship issue is not in question. The birthplace is. But does that matter at this point?

*And the one ambiguous issue, the question of "natural born" is just ambiguous enough to bring the case to court; but will be decided by the SCOTUS, and what do you think the decision will be? That he is declared not a 'natural born' citizen is not going to happen, period.

Exactly! Berg is barking up the wrong tree, IMO. If he wants to help, he needs to focus on the other issues, not the citizenship issue.

Most people in America don't even know that Dual Citizenship is possible. I encourage them to investigate it.

Do you remember how out of the blue the 2nd amendment had to go to the supreme court and being interpreted? I think the same thing is coming with "natural born". Like the guy says, this has never really been dealt with. I think a test case is coming on this issue and it will be involving California Arnold. And somehow this Obama thing will be used.

I agree with your assessment on the outcome. They won't declare he isn't a natural born citizen. But something on this will happen in a major way in the future. I get that feeling as idiots talk in the media like Bilbray who says you don't have to be a natural born citizen to be President, and Arnold saying we need to amend the Constitution so he can be President. Now if that ever happens, Berg should fight that one big time because that should never happen, IMO.

[Letsbereal]

Is Barack Obama a U.S. citizen...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHcPP4mewyo

Is Barack Obama a Muslim...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUEzSI3Sh_A

So Lets Be Real: Soetero is NOT an American Citizen, everybody knows!

[jofortruth]

Uhhh, Joe are you loosing it here?  Did you start this thread or not?  If so then that makes you the OP and not Dig or anyone else.  I do not even see Dig posting let alone being the original poster.

Tritonman, I was referring to the fact that I put it in the General Discussion thread first for people to see. Tucked over here many won't see it unless of course we keep discussing on the issue and it pops up again.

I didn't think it should have been moved here so quickly after posting. That's what I was referring to.

[jofortruth]

Couldn't it also be the case that this whole "birth certificate" hoopla is JUST THAT-a *distraction* to the masses to get everyone debating and distracted?

Also, why wasn't there any uproar over Obama's 2008 opponent McCain, who was NOT naturally US born?

I think this is what has happened - A Distraction. Then we won't look into all the other things we need to look into. The political gameplaying is disgusting.

There was an uproar over McCain. Lawsuits were filed and people did question his legitimacy. However, the rules are different when someone is born to US Citizens on a military base. I have something on this in my documentation.

[jofortruth]

Yeah Al Gore's old, unused "lock box"....  LOL
 

I think these sneaky boyz have all kinds of lock boxes. They really need to be more honest and quit their secretiveness in all things. That is unbecoming of someone who calls themselves leaders. I think they forget THEY WORK FOR US, and it's time they were reminded. And they are being reminded with every protest and every person speaking out. A GOOD THING!

[jofortruth]

My suspiscion is that Obama was recruited by Brzezinski while Brzezinsky was Dean of Russian Studies at Columbia, and  while Obama was a political science student at Columbia who wrote his thesis on Russian Nuclear Disarmament.

I believe this is true. Brezezinski has his nose in everything and I think he does recruit future Presidents, as well as others to work in government or for government.

This is their M.O. (See Quigley's books "Tragedy and Hope" and the Rhodes Scholarships. These scholarships are not free, they train future leaders how to think the way they want them to think)

[jofortruth]

So Lets Be Real: Soetero is NOT an American Citizen, everybody knows!
[/center]

I think you need to look into this a bit more! 

[Protean]

1. Couldn't it also be the case that this whole "birth certificate" hoopla is JUST THAT-a *distraction* to the masses to get everyone debating and distracted?
2. I'm no fan of Mike Rivera, but he said he found out from his sources in Hawaii(where he resides too, I think) that Obama DOES have a US birth certificate locked away there.

No, I'm not defending Obama at all, but we need to look at things objectively here.

3. Also, why wasn't there any uproar over Obama's 2008 opponent McCain, who was NOT naturally US born?

1. No. If it was distraction, then the MSM would play with it and massage it around, instead then go into spin attack, like their do about 911 Truth. Sure, Obama is a puppet, but he has an Achilles heel: sealed documentation, purged records--WHO THE F is this guy?--expose him and you cut the puppet's strings--as the NWO finds its next dancing marionette--the people can see for themselves how they were duped and 3rd party members will get the opportunity for election as more people see through the smoke screen.

2. Nor am I a fan, but remember Mike Rivera was (and probably still is to save face) an Obama supporter before the election. Webster Tarpley on Alex's show, with Rivera also as a guest, tried to get him to see Obama's questionable status--Rivera would not listen and said "We need to give him (Obama) a chance!------------Please, if Mike Rivera can't do a little online research about Barry O's background: Rezko, Ayers, missing years at Columbia, CIA connections--etc.--then Mike has little credibility regarding Obama.

3. Because McCain asked for a ruling on his eligibility/technical foreign birth in the congress. They were actually above board with that one.

[Protean]

1. Like I said, I want an honest debate. This is not about changing minds. We all have our own independent thinking on the issues here, and that is a good thing. If we all thought alike we would be no better than when our Congressmen all vote alike when you know damn well that they have different opinions but were forced to vote in lockstep in different issues.

I'm glad we all think differently on the issues. Once we all think alike, we're in trouble and will never find answers.  

1. I thought you said you wanted to put it to rest.
"It's time to put this one to rest, so we can focus on more pressing issues."

I see from the posts above, you are getting an honest debate.

Obama's current citizenship, birth, past history--have been covered with a CIA legend--this makes it extremely hard to find out the truth about this man. The intelligence networks will be creating all sorts of cover operations to put out the fire of the Obama eligibility issue--especially with the elections on the horizon.

It will be a top priority to keep people confused on this issue. Jon Stewart has been summoned to get the dupes to laugh their way to voting Democrat again. Republican's are coming out of the woodwork waving their elephant flag hoping to get people to come over to their party because of the unpopular Democrat bail-outs-ObamaCare-fascist moves in government.

Obama's eligibility issue (sealed/purged records) is hotter than ever--so the Gov Operatives will be trying their hardest to put out this fire.

[Protean]

I find it interesting this was moved out of the mainstream forum so quickly before anyone had time to look at the information. Do we want an honest debate on this issue or not?

I think that Obama did not handle this properly, however can you backup all of the assertions you made here, Citizen?

I just gave you proof of my assertions and this is my changed opinion. We need an honest debate on this issue. I have heard all the things you just said but where is the proof?

Dig, or whoever moved this, did you even look at my evidence?

It's time for both sides to be honest on this issue. I want a real debate and moving this post will not achieve that. I would appreciate it if you would move it back.

Are we not looking for the truth on this issue as well as many others? I am!

Personally, I am a little offended at this remark--I consider this section (Rockefeller/Brzezinski's Obama puppet's Secrecy of Government is worse than Stalin + Hitler) to be one of the most important at the forum. It was moved, because this is the appropriate section for this issue.

[jofortruth]

1. I thought you said you wanted to put it to rest.
"It's time to put this one to rest, so we can focus on more pressing issues."

You are getting an honest debate. Obama's current citizenship, birth, past history--have been covered with a CIA legend--this makes it extremely hard to find out the truth about this man. The intelligence networks will be creating all sorts of cover operations to put out the fire of the Obama eligibility issue--especially with the elections on the horizon.

It will be a top priority to keep people confused on this issue. Jon Stewart has been summoned to get the dupes to laugh their way to voting Democrat again. Republican's are coming out of the woodwork waving their elephant flag hoping to get people to come over to their party because of the unpopular Democrat bail-outs-ObamaCare-fascist moves in government.

Obama's eligibility issue (sealed/purged records) is hotter than ever--so the Gov Operatives will be trying their hardest to put out this fire.

When people have differing opinions, you have to have a debate before something can be put to rest (if that is even possible). Debate is one thing this country has been missing, and it's good to see people willing to do it. Issues have gone uncontested for far too long, which is partly why we're in the ditch we are right now. We elected politicians and just trusted them to do what was right, now we find they should have been put on a leash. The leash is now being drawn tightly, and it's about time the people woke up and did this.

I wish people would stop listening to Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck and all of the media goons who are not objective, but do as they're told and based on politic slants.

I wish we had a media who was professional, informed, not scripted based on politics, and had an ounce of integrity. It's unfortunate that this is not the case, which is why the public is so confused on every issue.

All we can do is work with what we have the best we can, until we get this craziness and the idiots out of power who twist everything. This will be a lifelong endeavor, unfortunately.