How old is the Earth? ( old as dirt of course :-)

[ex_nihilo]

Mega wrong on the day part.  
Some planets have a day lasts minutes.
Some planets have a day that lasts hundreds of years.

God measures his time by earth days?  I highly doubt that.
You imply that an earth day could be the measurable unit.  Without the heavens (day 4), how would a person even know that a day had passed?  No moon, stars or sun as reference points.

The Earth is NOT "some planets". The earth has a 24 hour rotation cycle. If the Earth's was previously different, by any amount, then what event sped or slowed its rotation? Surely you can comprehend what magnitude of energy would be needed for this?

The creation account is written with a focus on and perspective from Earth. Why is it so hard to believe that the Earth is special? OH, that's right. The "authorities" say that the Earth is just a dot in the universe with no relevance whatsoever to the grand scheme of things. Right, lets trust those who worship death and destruction.

Light was created on day one. The sun was given dominion over light day 4.

Gen 1:3-5
  3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
  4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
  5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

[Shorebreak]

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

evening and the morning   That's a 24 hour single day. The first day of the Earth on it's way to being created in completeness

You can interpret it any way you want. It doesn't matter to me. Whether it's 6 thousand days or 6 billion years doesn't change the Gospel message.

What I don't understand is why people care. Do good to those who hurt you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who persecute you, etc. That's the Gospel message.  

So how does the age of the earth make a difference?

[Damascus]

Alex is simply not a fundamentalist(like some here), he is just an average Joe christian. Beware when we fundies finally turn America into a religious oligarchy(christian nation) instead of a democratic/constitutional republic. Separation of church and state is there to ensure that no one religion can hold sway over state/republic matters. That being said, it looks like Separation of church and state is starting to crumble.

[ex_nihilo]

ex_nihilo, I believe in the speed of light.  It's measureable and observable.

Good for you. =)

I choose to believe observable science as well.

The big bang theory is just that, a theory.  No one will ever know if it's right or wrong.  Yet the time units involved with it are a WAG. (Wild a$$ guess)

Why not trust someone who was there to tell about how it happened (Christ Jesus)?

To me, I can believe in God and the big bang theory!  It is not hard to surmise, that that is how he created the universe.

It's not hard to believe it, but it is both wrong and inconsistent if you're referring to the God of the Bible.

Likewise, Darwin and the Bible don't have to be enemies either.  

Darwin was part of the establishment.

Perhaps the so called rib that Eve comes from is a vague reference to the passing of DNA.

The passing of DNA from a man to create a previously non-existent female? I doubt it.

[ex_nihilo]

You can interpret it any way you want. It doesn't matter to me. Whether it's 6 thousand days or 6 billion years doesn't change the Gospel message.

What I don't understand is why people care. Do good to those who hurt you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who persecute you, etc. That's the Gospel message.  

So how does the age of the earth make a difference?

If the Bible is wrong about Creation and the age of the earth, is it also wrong about Christ's divinity and His work to pay for our sins? If it is wrong in one area, it can be wrong in others.

[ex_nihilo]

Alex is simply not a fundamentalist(like some here), he is just an average Joe christian. Beware when we fundies finally turn America into a religious oligarchy(christian nation) instead of a democratic/constitutional republic. Separation of church and state is there to ensure that no one religion can hold sway over state/republic matters. That being said, it looks like Separation of church and state is starting to crumble.

No one is arguing in support of a religious oligarchy.

[Damascus]

You could have fooled me(but not anymore)...

[poncho]

The Earth is NOT "some planets". The earth has a 24 hour rotation cycle. If the Earth's was previously different, by any amount, then what event sped or slowed its rotation? Surely you can comprehend what magnitude of energy would be needed for this?

The creation account is written with a focus on and perspective from Earth. Why is it so hard to believe that the Earth is special? OH, that's right. The "authorities" say that the Earth is just a dot in the universe with no relevance whatsoever to the grand scheme of things. Right, lets trust those who worship death and destruction.

Light was created on day one. The sun was given dominion over light day 4.

Gen 1:3-5
  3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
  4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
  5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

First, an earth day isn't actually 24 hours.  Very close, but it's not exact.

If your going to be literal, there are massive logical errors and laws of physics violations all over the place.

E.g. If the earth was created first, then it's motion was set into play before anything with gravity could act upon it.
That makes no sense.  Having the earth rotate around a non existant sun.  (Earth year length.)

Any instant creation of heavenly bodies, would have profound impact on planet earth. E.g. a moon created out of thin air would surely cause earthquakes of monstrous magnitude.

There are literaly hundreds if not thousands of problems, if you literaly take genesis as meaning earth days.   Basically, you can throw almost all of science away.  Better stop using your computer, because it's built with such science.

Me, I believe that God is allowing us to discover his mechanisms.  And the PC is just one more way for him to help us.

[tosso]

what an useless thread 

[citizenx]

Barring outright deletion, it would really benefit from a sarcastic title change IMO.

[Shorebreak]

If the Bible is wrong about Creation and the age of the earth, is it also wrong about Christ's divinity and His work to pay for our sins? If it is wrong in one area, it can be wrong in others.

I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. But I do think that making an arbitrary decision on the interpretation of biblical creation dates is kind of a waste of time and effort. Nobody will be damned for being wrong on how long they think creation took.

This entire topic is reminiscent of someone who abandoned spirituality in pursuit of religion.

[poncho]

Good for you. =)

I choose to believe observable science as well.

Why not trust someone who was there to tell about how it happened (Christ Jesus)?

I'm agnostic.  And I admit that my knowledge of quite a bit of the bible, is lacking compared to most religeous people.
So I cannot say, what Jesus said about creation in reference to Genesis.

It's not hard to believe it, but it is both wrong and inconsistent if you're referring to the God of the Bible.

How so?  The Bible has been translated into so many languages, not too mention that it has been interperted in many differing ways.
So, beside the fact that human error is part of the equation, you also have ancient non-scientific men describing Gods creation process!

Darwin was part of the establishment.

And many religeous people over time would have his head on a pole!

The passing of DNA from a man to create a previously non-existent female? I doubt it.

But it's easy to believe that Eve was created from a bone from Adams rib?  Same DNA to boot?
Seriously, I try to take what the bible says, and make sense of it, in light of science.

Is the Bible correct?  According to you, yes.  But as I'm agnostic, I haven't claimed that one religeon is right yet.  To do so, means that you have discounted all other religeons as false.  Hinduism for example makes sense to me.  
I kind of dig the old norse & greek gods.  At least they admitted that thier gods were imperfect.  Imperfect gods, in an imperfect world.  (That is why I can also believe in the NWO.  It explains our sorry state of affairs here on planet Earth.)

[ex_nihilo]

First, an earth day isn't actually 24 hours.  Very close, but it's not exact.

Obviously, but surely you can understand the concept of approximation for casual conversation? No one is going to type out 24.3216854864133546464343578674343451848434454878643213487878431354 hrs. when referring to the length of a day. (yes that number isn't exact either but used for both visual impact and humor.)  

If your going to be literal, there are massive logical errors and laws of physics violations all over the place.

E.g. If the earth was created first, then it's motion was set into play before anything with gravity could act upon it.
That makes no sense.  Having the earth rotate around a non existant sun.  (Earth year length.)

Any instant creation of heavenly bodies, would have profound impact on planet earth. E.g. a moon created out of thin air would surely cause earthquakes of monstrous magnitude.

Does God have gravity? Can God control it? The creation event was by definition "unnatrual", thus physical laws are a moot point.

There are literaly hundreds if not thousands of problems, if you literaly take genesis as meaning earth days.   Basically, you can throw almost all of science away.  Better stop using your computer, because it's built with such science.

Just because I don't believe in an atheistic interpretation or atheistic influenced view of origins doesn't mean I am diametrically opposed to "science", only to such interpretations. Science is not an entity to disagree with.

[ex_nihilo]

I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. But I do think that making an arbitrary decision on the interpretation of biblical creation dates is kind of a waste of time and effort. Nobody will be damned for being wrong on how long they think creation took.

This entire topic is reminiscent of someone who abandoned spirituality in pursuit of religion.

It is a problem of foundation. All doctrine in the bible has its root in Genesis. Example: Jesus died for your sins. Why? You're a sinner in need of salvation. Why? Because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Why? Because sin is passed to all from sinfull parents. Why? Because the first humans created were sinners. (original sin)


You are correct that a view of origins will not damn anyone, but if it is both illogical and inconsistent for a christian to not believe what Genesis plainly says.

[Polaris]

science is evil. burn them at the stake. back to the middle ages with us!!!

[Damascus]

Yes the bible explains everything, and we should stop looking as science is heresy.

[poncho]

Obviously, but surely you can understand the concept of approximation for casual conversation? No one is going to type out 24.3216854864133546464343578674343451848434454878643213487878431354 hrs. when referring to the length of a day. (yes that number isn't exact either but used for both visual impact and humor.)  

Does God have gravity? Can God control it? The creation event was by definition "unnatrual", thus physical laws are a moot point.

Why not create the laws of physics, than the sun, than planet Earth?

By waving the magic God wand, anyone in religeon can change reality to meet thier point of view.  And as such, this kind of non-explanation is what keeps me from joining any religeon.
I could easily create a new religeon, that states time began when I was born.  Anything pre-me, is false implanted memories.

Just because I don't believe in an atheistic interpretation or atheistic influenced view of origins doesn't mean I am diametrically opposed to "science", only to such interpretations. Science is not an entity to disagree with.

atheistic interpretation?

Wouldn't that mean you don't believe in God? I don't believe you meant that.  Very confused if you did.

I can't chat much longer...

[Anti-Globalist]

It is a problem of foundation. All doctrine in the bible has its root in Genesis. Example: Jesus died for your sins. Why? You're a sinner in need of salvation. Why? Because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Why? Because sin is passed to all from sinfull parents. Why? Because the first humans created were sinners. (original sin)


You are correct that a view of origins will not damn anyone, but if it is both illogical and inconsistent for a christian to not believe what Genesis plainly says.

You are correct entirely (Except I call him Immanuel as written in Isaiah 7:14). When I went to Sunday School (I was forced), I was told that I was bad and needed to be saved from God's Wrath. Why was I bad? because all people are born bad because of Eve eating the forbidden fruit, and the penalty for that was DEATH, unless of course one loves God and repents from doing wicked evil filthy scandalous scheming deeds.

Oh I was five years old at the time of being told how SINFUL I WAS.


Yes ex nihilo, it all goes back to Genesis, I know because the Scripture says so.

[ex_nihilo]

I'm agnostic.  And I admit that my knowledge of quite a bit of the bible, is lacking compared to most religeous people.
So I cannot say, what Jesus said about creation in reference to Genesis.

Jesus is literally God. He was there at the beginning. He was the one who commanded "let there be light".

How so?  The Bible has been translated into so many languages, not too mention that it has been interperted in many differing ways.
So, beside the fact that human error is part of the equation, you also have ancient non-scientific men describing Gods creation process!

It is trustworthy. There are threads on biblical accuracy here.

And many religeous people over time would have his head on a pole!

Probably, but that would be murder.

But it's easy to believe that Eve was created from a bone from Adams rib?  Same DNA to boot?
Seriously, I try to take what the bible says, and make sense of it, in light of science.

The creation of Eve was unnatural. It cannot be explained by science as science cannot test nor repeat something not natural.

Is the Bible correct?  According to you, yes.  But as I'm agnostic, I haven't claimed that one religeon is right yet.  To do so, means that you have discounted all other religeons as false.  Hinduism for example makes sense to me.  

Something can make sense and still be wrong. Lies make sense.

I kind of dig the old norse & greek gods.  At least they admitted that thier gods were imperfect.  Imperfect gods, in an imperfect world.  (That is why I can also believe in the NWO.  It explains our sorry state of affairs here on planet Earth.)

This is a good explanation of how could a perfect God allow an imperfect world:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/hcalg

Follow the links on the right.

[ex_nihilo]

Yes the bible explains everything, and we should stop looking as science is heresy.

Science is only possible because God created in a logical and orderly fashion.

[L2Design]

prime creator created boobies ok.. enough said...

[stymo1]

Question: Why do people keep posting these ridiculous threads? 

Answer: Major distraction from real issues. 

Let this be the last post on this ridiculous waste of bandwidth.

[Anti-Globalist]

Question: Why do people keep posting these ridiculous threads? 

Answer: Major distraction from real issues. 

Let this be the last post on this ridiculous waste of bandwidth.

I see you are not interested in the truth

[Anti-Globalist]

Question: Why do people keep posting these ridiculous threads? 

Answer: Major distraction from real issues. 

Let this be the last post on this ridiculous waste of bandwidth.

So when Alex is wrong, you say let it go. The real info war is testing all things, including Alex. Ok?

[ex_nihilo]

So when Alex is wrong, you say let it go. The real info war is testing all things, including Alex. Ok?

Although Alex's view of origins is in question, I don't think it will affect his judgment of the atrocities of men.

[Jackson Holly]

Our Most Distant Portrait ~ The Pale Blue Dot Photo



No collection of great astronomy photos is complete without this one. In 1990 the spacecraft Voyager 1, having finished its main mission and now hurtling out past the edge of the Solar System into empty space, spun its camera back behind it to view the Earth from over 6 billion kilometres away. This is the picture it took.

CARL SAGAN - "Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar,” every “supreme leader,” every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."

http://cosmic-web.co.uk/2009/08/tuesday-picture-the-pale-blue-dot/

[L2Design]

Our Most Distant Portrait ~ The Pale Blue Dot Photo



No collection of great astronomy photos is complete without this one. In 1990 the spacecraft Voyager 1, having finished its main mission and now hurtling out past the edge of the Solar System into empty space, spun its camera back behind it to view the Earth from over 6 billion kilometres away. This is the picture it took.

CARL SAGAN - "Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar,” every “supreme leader,” every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."

http://cosmic-web.co.uk/2009/08/tuesday-picture-the-pale-blue-dot/

Okay I'm not sure on this stuff... so I'll ask

HOW THE HELL did Voyager send that to us? Since the technology back then wasnt up to par to
do that?

I just dont believe scientists ANY MORE ON ANYTHING!

[Jackson Holly]

Okay I'm not sure on this stuff... so I'll ask

HOW THE HELL did Voyager send that to us? Since the technology back then wasnt up to par to
do that?

I just dont believe scientists ANY MORE ON ANYTHING!

Well, the two Voyagers are STILL calling home, as a matter of fact ... with some startling new information. One thing is they are SLOWING instead of speeding up ... as they leave the solar system ... opposite the outcome predicted by Gravity-only math.

[ex_nihilo]

Riddle me this Literal Bible believers:

On the 4th day god created the heavens.  (Aka stars, moons, our sun, etc.  Very busy day!!!!!!!)

Do you believe in the speed of light?
Yes, than what about the light coming from distant stars?  Some light has been traveling for billions of years and we are witnessing dead stars.

No, then what can you believe?  
---
To me, for any religeon to work, it must make sense.  Religeon must not disagree with science, but instead should co-exist with science.  Physics and Chemistry are laws of reality, aka God's laws.

Here is another good read on Distant Starlight.

Anisotropic Synchrony Convention:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/arj/v3/n1/anisotropic-synchrony-convention

[mbacolas]

dinsaurs are tricks the devil put their to fool humans 

Wow, i guess ppl are willing to beleive anything so it doesnt contradict their bible or their teachings 

Let me ask this, if jesus said 1+4=297.45 would jesus be correct or would the real answer be 5?

[Blows Against the Empire]

Gee! Seeing the Hebrew calendar is currently 15 of Tishrei 5771 it would seem the 7000 year theorists have a bit over 1200 years to go. Why worry now???

http://www.hebcal.com/converter/

[Seraphim]

Let me ask this, if jesus said 1+4=297.45 would jesus be correct or would the real answer be 5?

Strawman, and you have it backwards. Jesus would have been saying 5. Secular scientists would've been saying 297.45. ...After all, a renowned string physicist, Erik Verlinde, says "Gravity doesn't exist", yet God recognizes that things fall down. So, you tell me what the real answer would be.

[Anti-Globalist]

Adam was 930 years old when he died Genesis 5:5. So a creation day can not be equal to one thousand years,as God rested on the Seventh Day,which would mean Adam would have been over one thousand years old. Simple math.

[mbacolas]

Strawman, and you have it backwards. Jesus would have been saying 5. Secular scientists would've been saying 297.45. ...After all, a renowned string physicist, Erik Verlinde, says "Gravity doesn't exist", yet God recognizes that things fall down. So, you tell me what the real answer would be.

im just asking if youll beleive everything the bible teaches even if it contradicts science

[Anti-Globalist]

Adam was the first man upon the Earth about 6000 years ago.

So when Alex ''rants'' about men being on the Earth for tens and tens of thousands of years,then he is unwittingly promoting APOSTACY upon himself and upon the people he is trying to convince

[tritonman]

So how many Angels on the head of your pin?  I missed that somewhere?

[MonkeyPuppet]

Adam was the first man upon the Earth about 6000 years ago.

A "fact" backed up by nothing but the Bible so far.  Believe all you want, but your faith doesn't make it "fact".  I'm not claiming I know any better, but one book does not evidence make.

So when Alex ''rants'' about men being on the Earth for tens and tens of thousands of years,then he is unwittingly promoting APOSTACY upon himself and upon the people he is trying to convince

Apostasy - a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

That's quite a statement.  Since Alex doesn't prescribe to a particular dogmatic interpretation, of which there is much debate among theologists, he has deserted his faith entirely and somehow leading others from Christ in saying certain things?

Seriously, dude, get a grip on the fundie crap.

[mbacolas]

arggghhh!!!! at the fundies 

[citizenx]

DERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



EXACTLY!

[Anti-Globalist]

A "fact" backed up by nothing but the Bible so far.  Believe all you want, but your faith doesn't make it "fact".  I'm not claiming I know any better, but one book does not evidence make.


Apostasy - a total desertion of or departure from one's religion, principles, party, cause, etc.

That's quite a statement.  Since Alex doesn't prescribe to a particular dogmatic interpretation, of which there is much debate among theologists, he has deserted his faith entirely and somehow leading others from Christ in saying certain things?

Seriously, dude, get a grip on the fundie crap.

The Scriptures are a Calendar for believers. Alex problem is he has decided to accept Science Journals over Scriptural Reports.

The Hebrew Scriptures say the time of man upon the Earth is a bit under 6000 years. So where does Bible Baptist Thumping Alex get tens upon tens of thousands of years from? Cave paintings? So Alex must be questioning the validity of the book of Genesis. Unless Alex is duped or a fake? I say Alex is duped to the MAX.