No organic beef got BSE in the UK

[planning4acrash]

Alex again repeated a common misperception, Tuesday 21 September, that Mad Cow Disease (BSE) was caused by feeding bone meal to cows. Mark Purdey, British organic dairy farmer demonstrated with peer reviewed articles, that BSE was caused by government mandated organosphosphates. They cause toxic overload and mineral depletion that results in prion formation. He won a lawsuit against the British Government stopping him and other organic farmers from having to use organophosphates. "Co-incidentally" no organic beef got BSE in the UK, even tho they routinely were meat and bonemeal in their feed.

You can read his research on the Weston A Price Foundation: http://westonaprice.org/myths-a-truths.html

And at his website: markpurdey.com

He wrote Animal Pharm, which covers the entire event: http://www.markpurdey.com/mark_purdey_the_book_animal_pharm.htm

Alex is also wrong that cows are vegetarians. They consume massive quantities of insects whilst grazing pastures, so are partial omnivores. They also absorb saturated fats well, because their guts convert cellulose into short chain fatty acids, meaning that nutrition absorbed from their diet is about 80% saturated fats, as is the case with other ruminants.

The BSE crisis was used not only to justify a animal police state, but also to replace traditional feeds based on natural animal protein with genetically modified soy protein, which is toxic to cows. Cows on rich pasture do not need additional protein because they get everything they need grazing, but confinement cows need additional protein because grains do not provide enough nutrition to create growth. The same occurred with other animals, with most pigs and chickens now being fed GM soy.

Here's an article about how chickens are omnivores, which provides alternatives to toxic soy protein feeds: http://www.westonaprice.org/farm-a-ranch/1971-chickens-are-omnivores-its-no-dilemma.html

Incidentally, Mark's studies of wild incidents of TSE (chronic wasting disease) confirmed elevated levels of barium and silver salts in the carcasses that could be traced to elements used in cloud seeding. This resulted in the same toxic overload and mineral depletion. Heavy metals result in mineral depletion. This can be seen in part 4 of the Weston A Price Foundation link, above.

Many British farmers do not believe it a co-incident that Mark Purdey died soon after from a rapid cancer.

[blackwater]

Alex is not omnipotent....

I'm still going to listen today....

Mad Cow is interesting....  but not a deal breaker for me....

with most pigs and chickens now being fed GM soy.

That is very disturbing....

[planning4acrash]

I never suggested that this was intentional co-intel-pro, just that he has repeated a commonly held misperception that was underway long before the information could really get out on the web.

[chris jones]

it all sounds good to me with one exception. Cows may eat insects when feeding, but I don't go along with the statement they are meat eaters.
Feeding beef-beef, isn't that a bit canibalistic. As a kid working on my uncles farm,cattle,I remember checking the herd and finding one dead, none of the steers feasted on the corpse.
 Ya, I know a laymans take, I simply beleive the needs and nature of animals are defined, why screw around with it. I have to wonder why some genius came up with this idea, profits $$ maby, fattening them up for the sale.
Who knows, one day the scientific community will promote human flesh ,  balance your diet eat people. GM product, FDA approved.
 

[Scootle]

It's probably a combination of all these factors. Bottom line there's a great deal of unnatural insanity going on that needs to be stopped before the planet is FUBAR.

Prion diseases are awful, rogue proteins can't be defeated any way. They're like viruses that can't be kiled. They just go around exponentially creating more misfolded proteins and gradually turn your brain to mush. Even scarier, you can get one in the sleep centre in your brain which makes it literally physically impossible to fall asleep ... imagine that!

[planning4acrash]

it all sounds good to me with one exception. Cows may eat insects when feeding, but I don't go along with the statement they are meat eaters.
Feeding beef-beef, isn't that a bit canibalistic.

Here, from Mark Purdey, from part 1 of the Weston A Price link above:

"Cows frequently partake in the bizarre habit of eating their colleagues' afterbirths after calving, and I was particularly intrigued to watch my own home-reared, BSE-free cows positively relishing the delicacies of afterbirth tissues derived from a group of pedigree cows that I purchased into my farm in 1989. As the majority of these imported cows went on to develop BSE, it is interesting that BSE has not surfaced in my home-reared cows, despite their overzealous exposure to the allegedly "infectious" blood and lymph found in the afterbirths of the BSE cows. Other farmers sharing the same experience report the same outcome."

"Another anecdote hails from the farming community of Shetland, where the island folk are free of Creutzfeld-Jakob disease (the human form of BSE), despite their ancient custom of eating "potted sheep's brain." Interestingly, the equivalent of BSE in sheep, called scrapie, has been rife in the sheep flock on Shetland for centuries."

[Joe(WI)]

here's a good one, second link is a whackjobber full of it(soy)

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1440&bih=745&gbv=2&q=why+is+soy+toxic&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=why+is+soy+toxic&gs_rfai=

could we engage Alex to highlight the death benefits of glorious soy?

[planning4acrash]

Regarding soy, check this out:
 - http://www.westonaprice.orgwww.westonaprice.org/soy-alert.html

[citizenx]

As morally repugnant as it might be, you could probably feed cows beef minus brains and spinal columns safely -- that is without their developing BSE.  A similar disease among humans is transmitted only by cannibals eating the affected (CNS) parts of the body.  I still find it hard to believe this practice is really necessary or practical, though.

And as far as AJ is concerned -- hey, you can't know everything.  I still think as journalists go, he is at the top of his game.

[Joe(WI)]

repugnant, yeah. but as for the why, it is stupid to refeed cows the stuff because plants do a much better job of utilizing nutrients. THEN you feed that back to Bossie. =P

It takes how many pounds of grass to make a pound of cow? Why circumvent the whole thing.

[citizenx]

You've just answered your own question, the motive is economic.  If the price of beef is sufficiently low, what quicker way is there to pack the pounds on your beef steer, and those parts that no one wants (like the brain and spianl column) can be easily ground up and converted to "feed" -- hey, who knows what's in that $hit.  It's like hot dogs or baloney.

[planning4acrash]

The brain and spine have NOTHING to do with BSE. Here is a quote from Mark Purdey, from the first of the three articles on the Weston A Price Foundation link:

"Cows frequently partake in the bizarre habit of eating their colleagues' afterbirths after calving, and I was particularly intrigued to watch my own home-reared, BSE-free cows positively relishing the delicacies of afterbirth tissues derived from a group of pedigree cows that I purchased into my farm in 1989. As the majority of these imported cows went on to develop BSE, it is interesting that BSE has not surfaced in my home-reared cows, despite their overzealous exposure to the allegedly "infectious" blood and lymph found in the afterbirths of the BSE cows. Other farmers sharing the same experience report the same outcome."

"Another anecdote hails from the farming community of Shetland, where the island folk are free of Creutzfeld-Jakob disease (the human form of BSE), despite their ancient custom of eating "potted sheep's brain." Interestingly, the equivalent of BSE in sheep, called scrapie, has been rife in the sheep flock on Shetland for centuries."

[citizenx]

OK, so cows regularly eat their afterbirth, but why do we need to feed beef to cows -- a very non-traditional practice?

I think that's what many of us are wondering, including AJ apparently.

[planning4acrash]

OK, so cows regularly eat their afterbirth, but why do we need to feed beef to cows -- a very non-traditional practice?
I think that's what many of us are wondering, including AJ apparently.

That is not the point. The true question is, what caused Mad Cow Disease. Cows fed grains do not get enough protein, so need supplementation. Do you want your beef fed with nutritious bone meal or, toxic GM soy. And regardless of the morality of cows eating cow meat, government shouldn't ban it on false pretences.

What we really need is cows on green grass, where they do not need supplementation.

[citizenx]

Were peopke feeding bone meal to cows even a hundred years ago?  How did we ever survive withou this practice?

Cows can't survive without meat in their diet now?  What the hell happened to cows?

They're used to bugs from natural grazing.  Why don't we just fed 'em bugs?  No joke.  At least it would be more natural than feeding them their own flesh.

[planning4acrash]

They're used to bugs from natural grazing.  Why don't we just fed 'em bugs?  No joke.  At least it would be more natural than feeding them their own flesh.

Yes, bonemeal has been used for a very long time. You are right in saying we should feed em bugs, but, the best way of doing that is getting rid of the feedlots and put the damn cows out on grass!! Like I said, there may be better ways than meat and bonemeal, and you may seek to avoid canibalism, BUT, that doesn't get around the issue of whether this is what caused BSE and whether it was a retrograde step to move from it to genetically modified soy protein. Your replies are combining two separate issues into a single issue.

The simple solution to both issues is pasture fed cows. Most American cows are fed grains and soy protein in feedlots, where they never get to see green grass and bugs.

[citizenx]

The simple solution to both issues is pasture fed cows.

Agreed. That would also probably be more humane.  The current methods of producing meat by confining the animals to very small areas seems a lot less than humane.

[planning4acrash]

Agreed. That would also probably be more humane.  The current methods of producing meat by confining the animals to very small areas seems a lot less than humane.

Feedlots are a method of processing toxic by products of industry into milk and beef. The soy they are fed are by-products of food processing.

[Kaz]

Most animals eat the placenta, it is not meat, mostly fluid rich in nutrients that has fed the growing fetus

Ruminants do not digest the same fats as carnivores which is why the feed company's have developed a way to feed unnatural fats to them

The microorganisms in the stomach of herbivores and ruminants are responsible for releasing essentail fats acids [EFA's] which are then assimilated for use by such animals, carnivores benefit by eating the herbivores/ruminants


Organophosphates and carbamines are nerve toxins which inhibit binding ACG to Ach receptor

Cholinesterase - one of a family of enzymes capable of catalysing the hydrolysis of acetylcholine, the acetic ester of choline, and a few other compounds

Acetylcholinesterase = a true choline esterase that hydrolyses acetylcholine within the nervous system and at peripheral neuroeffector junctions such as motor end-plates

Cholinesterase Inhibitors include two groups of compounds, organophosphates and carbamates which share the same mechanism of action - inhibition of acetylcholinesterase. These nerve toxins are also used in flea and tick control preparations for small animals in product such as Frontline etc in sprays and ’spot on’ treatments

‘’ these compounds were once very popular fro their potency and prolonged action but their use is declining because their systemic persistence creates a low margin of safety and continued use leads to toxicity’’

[planning4acrash]

Ruminants do not digest the same fats as carnivores which is why the feed company's have developed a way to feed unnatural fats to them.

The short chain fatty acids produced by ruminants from breaking down plants are identical to those that a cow gets from ingesting insects, and is the same as the fats that cows consume when when they eat milk from their mothers and the same long chain fatty acids that produce cream and butter. Your information is total junk.

[Kaz]

Alex is also wrong that cows are vegetarians. They consume massive quantities of insects whilst grazing pastures, so are partial omnivores.

Ominivorus simlpy means to eat indiscrimantly, if you wanted to be pedantic about it rather than saying they are partial omnivores, you would perhaps suggest they are partial insectivores

Cows dont run around actively seeking out insects as a part of their diet insects are ingested because they happen to be an a bit of herbage at the time

Insects dirt wood etc can be found inside a canines stomach [wild or domestic] but it doesn't make them omnivores

[Kaz]

The short chain fatty acids produced by ruminants from breaking down plants are identical to those that a cow gets from ingesting insects, and is the same as the fats that cows consume when when they eat milk from their mothers and the same long chain fatty acids that produce cream and butter. Your information is total junk.

I am not disputing the fact that calfs recive the fats that its mother produces I merely stated that the fats that are in the concentrates are not the same as a bovine would assimilate from its natural diet

'Ruminants do not utilize fats well [unlike carnivores who rely on fats for energy] Fats are the most energy dense feeds available but in herbivores/ruminants fats disrupt the microbial population [protozoa etc]. In monogastric animals, fats are absorbed before they reach the site of fermentation [ceceum]. Feed companies are attempting to encapsulate fat droplets with a cellulose coating so that fat is not released until after it leves the rumen'

Why is it bad for the unnatural fats to disrupt the microbial population - because it is the micro-organisms that do the job of releasing the nutrients including the EFA's from the food/herbage

Carnivores do not utilise EFA's from plants effectively but benefit from eating the herbivore and ruminants who supply preformed EFA's [unless its commercially raised beef of course]

In parts of the uk there are places where BSE was found and human CJD is found where the the minerals are imabalanced compounding the problem of organophosphates

[planning4acrash]

I am not disputing the fact that calfs recive the fats that its mother produces I merely stated that the fats that are in the concentrates are not the same as a bovine would assimilate from its natural diet

This is NOT TRUE. Cows convert cellulose into saturated fat, so that a whopping 80% of their energy comes from saturated fat. And its not true that they do not seek out insects. The most healthy, rich pastures are the very pastures rich in insect life, which the cows hoover up.

So, contrary to your misconception, ruminants receive the vast quantity of their energy from saturated fats.

Here is Barry Groves on the subject: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/should-all-animals-eat-a-high-fat-low-carb-diet.html[/quote]

In parts of the uk there are places where BSE was found and human CJD is found where the the minerals are imabalanced compounding the problem of organophosphates

- So, what you are saying is, that poor pasture can contribute to the toxic overload and mineral deficiencies caused by organophosphates. Indeed, this is true, and reinforces Mark Purdey's work. It is true that any animal with a deficient diet and or sickness would be less resistant to toxic insecticides.

[Kaz]

Cows convert cellulose into saturated fat, so that a whopping 80% of their energy comes from saturated fat.
So, contrary to your misconception, ruminants receive the vast quantity of their energy from saturated fats.

I never said they dont what I am saying is the fats in the concentrate diets is not the same as those assimilated from a natural and therefore the fats from the conentrate raised animals are differnt from those of a naturally raised bovine

Fat Digestion and Absorption in Ruminants
Processes in the rumen

Major differences in processes of fat digestion and absorption exist between ruminant and nonruminant animals, as a result of the profound impact of the rumen on dietary lipids. As described above, dairy cows consume a diet that predominantly contains PUFA as part of plant triglycerides and glycolipids. Bacteria in the rumen split off the fatty acids (and sugars) from the glycerol backbone. The glycerol and the sugars released from glycolipids are fermented to the volatile fatty acids (VFA). The breakdown of dietary lipids by rumen bacteria generally occurs quite rapidly as the lipids are exposed during rumination and bacterial digestion of feed particles. In addition, the process generally is essentially complete so that no monoglycerides or diglycerides pass to the lower digestive tract. The major exception to this would be when a highly saturated (or hydrogenated) triglyceride is fed. Because of the very high melting point of such fats, and their resulting low solubility, bacterial enzymes cannot gain access to the bonds linking fatty acids to glycerol, and so these would pass to the lower digestive tract. Unfortunately, the same limitations of solubility and melting point result in poor access of the animal’s digestive enzymes in the small intestine, and very poor digestibility in that site as well.

The fatty acids released in the rumen are not absorbed from the rumen, but rather will pass to the abomasum and then the small intestine, which is the primary site for absorption of the fatty acids. However, the profile of fatty acids that reaches the intestine will be very different from what the animal has consumed. This is because of the extensive biohydrogenation that occurs in the rumen as a result of bacterial activity.

[planning4acrash]

Not much between them really. Clearly, soy protein is harder for them to digest.

A key, is to go back to traditional breeds that can survive off a grass based diet. Modern bovine have been bred to need toxic soy feed and things like that, as have modern broiler chickens, whilst traditional breeds of chicken will go for roughage and bugs. Ducks go crazy on slugs. Apparently, modern hybrid sheep get confused on traditional pastures, and only eat freshly sown grass, whilst traditional sheep eat all the weeds.