NSA Secret 911 files

[jimd3100]

The Secret Files 9/11 Investigators Missed

Excerpts:

by Philip Shenon
September 10, 2010
The Daily Beast.com

Why didn't the commission investigating the devastating 2001 al Qaeda attacks thoroughly scrub the NSA's files? Philip Shenon on the crucial records the government has never explored.

Are many of the secrets of 9/11 still hidden in top-secret government files?

Almost certainly, say former staff members of the 9/11 Commission. With the nation scheduled to mark the ninth anniversary of the terrorist attacks this weekend, former staffers tell The Daily Beast it is clear that the 9/11 Commission, which went out of business in 2004, failed to conduct a thorough inspection of the government's most important library of raw intelligence on al Qaeda and the 9/11 plot. And nobody appears to have inspected that intelligence since.

The archives, maintained by the National Security Agency at its headquarters in Fort Meade, Maryland, were reviewed -- in a cursory fashion -- only in the final days of the commission's investigation, and then only because of last-minute staff complaints that the NSA's vast database was being ignored.

Throughout its investigation, staffers complained, the commission's leaders were fixated on what could be found in the terrorism files of the CIA and the FBI, the two big targets for criticism in the panel's final report, and largely ignored the NSA, the government's chief eavesdropping agency.

"It's always been frightening to me to consider what is still at the NSA, whatever we never had time to see," said a former commission staff member.

In terms of budget, the NSA is the nation's largest spy agency, spending tens of billions of dollars a year on eavesdropping satellites and ground-based intercepts, much of it devoted to listening in on phone calls and intercepting emails among terrorists and their allies. The raw intelligence gathered from the intercepts is then shared with the CIA and other agencies for analysis.

Former Sen. Bob Graham of Florida, a Democrat who led a joint congressional investigation of 9/11 that predated the formation of the 9/11 Commission, tells The Daily Beast he had been aware that the commission might have missed so much evidence at the NSA.

"The NSA was providing well over half of the raw intelligence that the intelligence community was getting at that time," he said.

Graham said he worried, in particular, that the commission may have missed other evidence at the NSA of foreign support for al Qaeda; the congressional investigation turned up evidence that some officials of the government of Saudi Arabia, including a Saudi diplomat based in Los Angeles, may have provided assistance to the 9/11 hijackers after they arrived in the U.S.

John R. Schindler, a former NSA intelligence analyst who is now a professor of national-security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College, said he would urge congressional investigators and others to review the material at the NSA that the 9/11 Commission missed. He said he was baffled that the archives had not been thoroughly inspected at the time.

"For decades, it's been by far the biggest source of intelligence in the U.S. government," he said of the NSA. "A very high percentage of the terrorism cases that appear in the media begin with the NSA intercepting information."

What might the 9/11 Commission have missed?

"You won't know until you look," he said. "It's important to remember that when access was given to the archives of the NSA's predecessor agency during World War II, the whole history of World War II had to be rewritten." He was referring to the disclosure—decades after the war—that the United States and its allies had broken Nazi codes, explaining allied victories that had previously been attributed solely to the genius of American military leaders.

Philip Shenon is an investigative reporter based in Washington D.C. He was a reporter at The New York Times from 1981 until 2008. He left the paper in May 2008, a few weeks after his first book, The Commission: The Uncensored History of the 9/11 Investigation, hit the bestsellers lists of both The New York Times and The Washington Post. He has reported from several warzones and was one of two reporters from the Times embedded with American ground troops during the invasion of Iraq in the 1991 Gulf War.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-10/911-mystery-nsa-files-on-al-qaeda-attack-never-probed/
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20100910094545978

Graham said he worried, in particular, that the commission may have missed other evidence at the NSA of foreign support for al Qaeda; the congressional investigation turned up evidence that some officials of the government of Saudi Arabia, including a Saudi diplomat based in Los Angeles, may have provided assistance to the 9/11 hijackers after they arrived in the U.S.

Congressional Record: October 28, 2003 (Senate)

  (a) Findings.--The Senate finds that--
       (1) The President has prevented the release to the American
     public of 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence
     Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks
     of September 2001.

 How much of the 28 pages could be declassified? Senators Graham and
Shelby, the former chair and cochair of the Intelligence Committee who
directed the report are quoted saying the following: "I think they are
classified for the wrong reason," the former vice chairman of the
Senate Intelligence Committee told NBC's "Meet the Press." "I went
back and read every one of those pages thoroughly. My judgment is 95
percent of that information should be declassified and become
uncensored so the American people would know." Asked why the section
was blacked out, Shelby said: "I think it might be embarrassing to
international relations."

  There are two big questions yet to be answered. Why would this
government have provided the level of assistance--financial,
logistical, housing, support service--to some of the terrorists and not
to all of the terrorists? We asked that question. There has been no
response.
  My own hypothesis--and I will describe it as that--is that in fact
similar assistance was being provided to all or at least most of the
terrorists. The difference is that we happened, because of a set of
circumstances which are contained in these 28 censored pages, to have
an unusual window on a few of the terrorists. We did not have a similar
window on others. Therefore, it will take more effort to determine if
they were, in fact, receiving that assistance. That effort has, in my
judgment, been grossly insufficiently pursued.  -- The Senator from Florida Mr. GRAHAM
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s102803.html

More on this here....
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=51281.0

Why didn't the commission investigating the devastating 2001 al Qaeda attacks thoroughly scrub the NSA's files?

What might the 9/11 Commission have missed?

"You won't know until you look," he said.

Well, gosh...I just can't imagine.......

NSA Discovers Al-Qaeda Communications Hub
CIA Discovers Al-Qaeda Communications Hub, NSA Fights to Cut off Its Access
CIA Builds Own Listening Post to Obtain Half of Intelligence NSA Already Has, but Refuses to Share
After CIA Obtains Half of Bin Laden’s Calls Itself, NSA Still Refuses to Provide Other Half
Embassy Bomber’s Arrest Points to Vital Al-Qaeda Communications Hub
NSA Intercepts Calls to Communications Hub Involved in Embassy Bombings
US Intelligence Community Begins Joint Surveillance of Al-Qaeda Communications Hub
NSA Defies Order to Share Raw Intelligence with Other Agencies
FBI Asks NSA to Pass on All Calls between Al-Qaeda Yemen Hub and US
NSA Monitoring Hears 9/11 Hijacker Names, This Information Is Not Shared with CIA or FBI
NSA Intercepts More of Almihdhar’s Calls
NSA Intercepts Calls Mentioning 9/11 Hijacker Almihdhar, Does Not Disseminate Information
December 29, 1999: NSA Tells CIA about Planned Al-Qaeda Summit Involving Future Hijackers
Shortly Before December 29, 1999: NSA Monitors 9/11 Hijackers Talking to Each Other about Upcoming Al-Qaeda Summit
2000: CIA Stops Reviewing NSA Transcripts after Short Period of Time, Allegedly due to ‘Resource Constraints’
January 2-5, 2000: CIA Learns 9/11 Hijacker Almihdhar Has US Visa as He Is Tracked to Al-Qaeda Summit
Mid-January 2000: CIA Asks NSA to Pass on New Information about Hijacker Almihdhar, but NSA Fails to Do So
Early 2000-Summer 2001: NSA Intercepts Communications between Hijackers in US and Al-Qaeda Communications Hub
Spring-Summer 2000: Calls between 9/11 Hijacker in San Diego and Al-Qaeda Communications Hub Intercepted by NSA
(Spring 2000): NSA Does Not Inform FBI Hijacker Almihdhar Is in US, Reason Unclear
Early April 2000: Alhazmi Talks to 9/11 Facilitator in Dubai, Possibly Using Phone Monitored by NSA
(Mid-June-Mid-July 2000): Almihdhar Stays in Yemen House Monitored by US Intelligence
Summer 2000: NSA Continues to Intercept Calls between Hijackers and Yemen Communications Hub
(August 2000): Wiretap Reveals Al-Qaeda is Planning ‘Hiroshima-type Event’ Against US
Mid-October 2000-Summer 2001: NSA Intercepts Calls between Hijacker in US and Al-Qaeda Communications Hub
Early 2001: CIA Reduces FBI Access to NSA’s Al-Qaeda Intercepts
February 9-21, 2001: NSA Supposedly Mapped, Disrupted, and Monitored Bin Laden’s Network
Summer 2001: 9/11 Hijackers’ Associates Call Monitored Al-Qaeda Communications Hub in Yemen
(August 2001): NSA Intercepts Another Call to Hijackers in US
September 11, 2001: The 9/11 Attack: 3,000 Die in New York City and Washington, D.C.
February 13, 2002: Al-Qaeda Stops Using Monitored Communications Hub after Shootout
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&projects_and_programs=complete_911_timeline_yemen_hub

[Thermate Residue]

"9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... "

Al-Qaeda(the Base) had nothing to do with 9/11 other than to be blamed for it.

[jimd3100]

"9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... 9/11 ... Al-Qaeda ... "

Al-Qaeda(the Base) had nothing to do with 9/11 other than to be blamed for it.

There really were Jihadi training camps in Afghanistan, Brezinski helped set them up, and planes really did fly into buildings on 9-11, including the pentagon, and Bush's Saudi buddies assisted the hijackers that "don't exist". What can I say.....Guess, I'm just some silly guy that will fall for anything.   

[jimd3100]

Without even looking at the NSA files some uncomfortable truths were being discovered by the Commission:

before he resigned from the Commission - Max Cleland:

"As each day goes by, we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before Sept. 11 than it has ever admitted."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/26/national/26KEAN.html?pagewanted=print&position=

So Bush offers a bribe to get Cleland off the Commission and to get him to STFU. Cleland accepts the bribe and the cover up continues...it's right here....

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=183040.msg1081336#msg1081336

That's one of the perks of being President. You can make or break the careers of people. Let's say for instance that the prosecutor in a case...oh...let's call the the the Jack Abramoff case...just for fun...and he gets closer and closer to you and your administration buddies in his criminal probe...just bribe him....you know...like this....

The investigation into Jack Abramoff, the disgraced Republican lobbyist, took a provocative new turn Thursday when the Justice Department said the chief prosecutor in the inquiry would step down next week because he had been nominated to a federal judgeship by President Bush.

The prosecutor, Noel Hillman, is chief of the department's Office of Public Integrity, and the move ends his involvement in an investigation that has reached into the administration as well as into the top ranks of the Republican leadership on Capitol Hill.

Democrats swiftly questioned the move's timing and called for a special prosecutor as Bush faced a barrage of questions about why he would not make public "grip and grin" photographs of himself with Abramoff. The photographs apparently show Bush and Abramoff smiling at White House Hanukkah parties and Republican fundraising receptions.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-01-27/news/17278729_1_judgeship-by-president-bush-investigation-into-jack-abramoff-justice-department

[Thermate Residue]

There really were Jihadi training camps in Afghanistan, Brezinski helped set them up, and planes really did fly into buildings on 9-11, including the pentagon, and Bush's Saudi buddies assisted the hijackers that "don't exist". What can I say.....Guess, I'm just some silly guy that will fall for anything.   

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd9vLW1D5Uw[/media]

Notice how they are learning expert piloting skills which enable them to execute super human maneuvers?  Neither did I.  Al Qaeda, in so much as such an organization exists, is the supply end of the CIA-run opium trade. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=wally+hilliard+heroin

[Jackson Holly]

You don't suppose the NSA might have generated some bogus
'secret' files' that just may contain more 'evidence' that
Osama and the Cave Men did 911, do you?

Naayy ... they wouldn't do THAT!   

[Dig]

You don't suppose the NSA might have generated some bogus
'secret' files' that just may contain more 'evidence' that
Osama and the Cave Men did 911, do you?

Naayy ... they wouldn't do THAT!   

There were thousands of records on the 9/11 "hijackers". This evidence was suppressed because it showed connections to US intelligence agencies. This is well documented in the movie "core of corruption" and "fabled enemies". There needed to be a read team for the Ptech infiltrated war games. The red teams are all over the place. The christmas underwear bomber was a red team member, so was the time square fizzle bomber who was funded by David Rockefeller through JP Morgan. The reason why it is important to uncover this stuff is so that we do not get hit with the same BS in the future. Right now, there are dozens of red team projects to demonize a subset of society. They involve hundreds if not thousands of red team members.

They could be extremist zionists: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=186971.0, Chinese MK Ultra nuts, American Police Force, etc.

I do hold anything in the Daily Beast with a justifiable amount of skepticism since it is about to merge with Newsweek who was bought by AIPAC for $1.

But notwithstanding the source, the record is clear that red teams exposed and covered up from Able Danger hold a key to many of the treasonous acts of 9/11.

[Dig]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd9vLW1D5Uw[/media]

Notice how they are learning expert piloting skills which enable them to execute super human maneuvers?  Neither did I.  Al Qaeda, in so much as such an organization exists, is the supply end of the CIA-run opium trade. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=wally+hilliard+heroin

That is precisely why it is important to expose this. hani hanjour specifically could not have made the maneuvers. who did? this completely destroys the official stody. saying that no such people existed, were not willing to do horrendous things, etc. does not destroy the official story, but the fact that they had no ability to do the events that took place does.

Sibel Edmonds' knowledge also corroborates that Osama bin Laden was a terrorist, one that worked for the CIA up to and at least till 9/11/2001

[Thermate Residue]

That is precisely why it is important to expose this. hani hanjour specifically could not have made the maneuvers. who did? this completely destroys the official stody. saying that no such people existed, were not willing to do horrendous things, etc. does not destroy the official story, but the fact that they had no ability to do the events that took place does.

Sibel Edmonds' knowledge also corroborates that Osama bin Laden was a terrorist, one that worked for the CIA up to and at least till 9/11/2001

I don't know what exactly Sibel Edmonds knows, or think she knows.  Bear in mind that some information obtained by legitimate intelligence can be the product of criminal elements within.  Best I can tell, bin Laden was not involved in the Embassy bombings, nor with the Cole attack.  Perhaps that's the real reason John O'Neil was killed.

[jimd3100]

I do hold anything in the Daily Beast with a justifiable amount of skepticism since it is about to merge with Newsweek who was bought by AIPAC for $1.

Understandable which is why I showed 3 sources.
1. The daily beast which ran the story
2. 911truth.org  which picked it up for the same reasons I posted it
3. The real actual source--The person who wrote the article. Philip Shenon. He was a reporter for the New York Times, who was in charge of covering the 9-11 Commission for the paper during the hearings. He quit the times when he wrote his book called The Commission which I highly recommend. I'm aware that some will say "he's in on it". He isn't. He doesn't say in his book "9-11 was an inside job" so to some he's "one of them". He isn't. He's just a reporter who was covering the Commission then wrote a book that basically said the White House was controlling the Commission with a mole put in charge of by the name of Phillip Zelikow. It's worth a read.....

http://www.amazon.com/Commission-Uncensored-History-11-Investigation/dp/0446580759

Best I can tell, bin Laden was not involved in the Embassy bombings, nor with the Cole attack. 

Did you know that in 2001 a trial was going on in N.Y. that convicted several people for the embassy bombings? It ended in July of 2001 and the defendants were awaiting sentencing when 9-11 happened. It's right here......

http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ubl-dt.htm

I'm sure some on here will say it's all fake and the poor folks were framed because religious fanatics don't exist. But me being the silly easily fooled and manipulated person I am would like to point out that one of the convicted, a Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali, a jihadi that was supposed to kill himself during the attacks but chickened out was arrested with a phone number on him. Turns out that it was a number to a communications hub for Al Qaeda. This gave the authorities a gold mine of information. The NSA and CIA had the place bugged and listened in on everything and recorded anyone leaving or entering the house. This was 1998. Khalid al-Mihdhar lived at the house. He was one of the 9-11 hijackers that some of you refuse to admit existed. He was under surveillance and his phones were tapped well over a year before 9-11. When he arrived in America, He lived with an FBI informant after he was introduced to the informant by a Saudi Arabian Intelligence agent. This can all be easily proven by Government documents and Investigations, but they would prefer we not bring it up. This is why the secret NSA files are interesting and worth looking at. Perhaps we should just make up our own stories and say the hijackers didn't exist, and a missile hit the pentagon. The truth is weird enough, I don't need to make up my own fairy tails. I'd prefer to hang them with their own story and own documents. But I guess I'm just a tin foil hat wearing romantic dreamer.

[Jackson Holly]

There is plenty of evidence from the CIA and FBI, from Able Danger, whistleblowers, etc, to prove Washington complicity in at least the training and setting up of the (mostly) Saudi patsy highjackers. It appears to be real and solid evidence gathered by low level agents, who were not and are not fully awake to the fact that their own government, their own higher-ups in the Spook industry, ARE Al Queda in a real sense.

If there is more to be gleaned from 'classified' NSA documents, then that is good ... let's go after it, by all means. I do fear, though, that in the past decade NSA could have manufactured 'evidence' to hide their tracks.

What we need is the WILL to arrest the REAL terrorists and take them to trial ... but this will probably never happen, regardless of a mountain of evidence, just as in the assassinations from the 1960s.

[agentbluescreen]

I'm sure some on here will say it's all fake and the poor folks were framed because religious fanatics don't exist. But me being the silly easily fooled and manipulated person I am would like to point out that one of the convicted, a Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali, a jihadi that was supposed to kill himself during the attacks but chickened out was arrested with a phone number on him. Turns out that it was a number to a communications hub for Al Qaeda. This gave the authorities a gold mine of information. The NSA and CIA had the place bugged and listened in on everything and recorded anyone leaving or entering the house. This was 1998. Khalid al-Mihdhar lived at the house. He was one of the 9-11 hijackers that some of you refuse to admit existed. He was under surveillance and his phones were tapped well over a year before 9-11. When he arrived in America, He lived with an FBI informant after he was introduced to the informant by a Saudi Arabian Intelligence agent. This can all be easily proven by Government documents and Investigations, but they would prefer we not bring it up. This is why the secret NSA files are interesting and worth looking at. Perhaps we should just make up our own stories and say the hijackers didn't exist, and a missile hit the pentagon. The truth is weird enough, I don't need to make up my own fairy tails. I'd prefer to hang them with their own story and own documents. But I guess I'm just a tin foil hat wearing romantic dreamer.

Quite the contrary, you are 100% correct. Whatever (regardless) that the ZioNAZI's "al CIAduh" Mafia arranged or that they (the UZSR dictatorship) allowed to be fired at their Pentagon-Mafia headquarters, with them in it, on the morning of their long-awaited Daniel Chapter 8 Show, that one single "special effect" aspect of the stage-managed presentations of the morning had no bearing upon their orchestration, importing, training. supplying nor casting of their supposedly "muslim inspired" hijacking "cover story" players.

In the end you will see that we were right, sure some passenger planes where hijacked and hit buildings, but I can guarantee you with absolute certainty, beyond any shadow of any doubt whatsoever that no "Flight 77" ever came anywhere near any Pentagon. The more we find out, the more that oddly queer incongruity with the lies of the official fable will be proven.

Don't feel bad. If they can't even explain their silly and ridiculous impossible version of their story about what hit the Pentagon, you never will.

Their "own story" of/for/about the Pentagon already has hung them.

[Thermate Residue]

Did you know that in 2001 a trial was going on in N.Y. that convicted several people for the embassy bombings? It ended in July of 2001 and the defendants were awaiting sentencing when 9-11 happened. It's right here......

Did you get that the head of the FBI's counter-terrorism operations resigned in protest in the summer of 2001 because his investigations were being blocked from higher up? Did you get that the head of the organization which provided the fake bin Laden "confession" videos was one of the people who testified before congress in support of HR 1955?  To wit, Rita Katz. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=HR%201955+Rita+Katz

Perhaps we should just make up our own stories and say the hijackers didn't exist, and a missile hit the pentagon. The truth is weird enough, I don't need to make up my own fairy tails. I'd prefer to hang them with their own story and own documents. But I guess I'm just a tin foil hat wearing romantic dreamer.

That's one of the official tactics of disinformation.  The straw-man attack.  I've already stated my position.  I never denied that the accused hijackers existed.  I never claimed they didn't operate in the US.  I never said that AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.  What I said is that the accused hijackers did not fly AA77 into the Pentagon.

Now, run along an blow up some swarthy toddlers in the Hindu Kush using remote control drone aircraft before they can grow up, strap on some IEDs and terrorize your neighborhood.

Yes, I am using hyperbole.  I hope you get my point.

[Dig]

Did you get that the head of the FBI's counter-terrorism operations resigned in protest in the summer of 2001 because his investigations were being blocked from higher up? Did you get that the head of the organization which provided the fake bin Laden "confession" videos was one of the people who testified before congress in support of HR 1955?  To wit, Rita Katz. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=HR%201955+Rita+Katz



That's one of the official tactics of disinformation.  The straw-man attack.  I've already stated my position.  I never denied that the accused hijackers existed.  I never claimed they didn't operate in the US.  I never said that AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.  What I said is that the accused hijackers did not fly AA77 into the Pentagon.

Now, run along an blow up some swarthy toddlers in the Hindu Kush using remote control drone aircraft before they can grow up, strap on some IEDs and terrorize your neighborhood.

Yes, I am using hyperbole.  I hope you get my point.

I do not understand what exactly the point is.

There does exist muslim extremism, it is actually an attack on islam more than anything else. Most of it came from Brzezinski as a CIA operation. $800 Million was given to the Bin Laden Family to create this abomination to the western world as well as islam. Osama bin Laden is part of the bin Laen family. The Bin Laden family have been British/American intelligence agents for 5 generations. Osama bin Laden never left intelligence and took credit for whatever he was told to take credit for. When it came to 9/11, imo he was either killed before the "confession" tape or not, either way I think he was not willing to go along with that false flag as taking credit for it because he never did.

The use of muslim extremism is similar to the use of zionism to take down judaism or the use of the nazi pope to take down christianity. People who give a shit about the "swarthy toddlers in the Hindu Kush" being blown up by "remote control drone aircraft before they can grow up" should be front and center doing what jimd3100 is doing by exposing all of the insanity surrounding 9/11. If they leave this part out as if it will magically disappear, they are likely going to be regarded in a similar vein as leaving out the dancing israelis, odigo, Ptech, etc. They likely support Brzezinski and his wicked ways of building up a group and then allowing them to just be ghosts and never part of an overall investigation. Why do you love brzezinski so much?

Yes, I am using hyperbole.  I hope you get my point.

[Thermate Residue]

Quite the contrary, you are 100% correct. Whatever (regardless) that the ZioNAZI's "al CIAduh" Mafia arranged or that they (the UZSR dictatorship) allowed to be fired at their Pentagon-Mafia headquarters, with them in it, on the morning of their long-awaited Daniel Chapter 8 Show, that one single "special effect" aspect of the stage-managed presentations of the morning had no bearing upon their orchestration, importing, training. supplying nor casting of their supposedly "muslim inspired" hijacking "cover story" players.

In the end you will see that we were right, sure some passenger planes where hijacked and hit buildings, but I can guarantee you with absolute certainty, beyond any shadow of any doubt whatsoever that no "Flight 77" ever came anywhere near any Pentagon. The more we find out, the more that oddly queer incongruity with the lies of the official fable will be proven.

Don't feel bad. If they can't even explain their silly and ridiculous impossible version of their story about what hit the Pentagon, you never will.

Their "own story" of/for/about the Pentagon already has hung them.

The damage to the Pentagon seems fully consistent with a 757 impact.  I examined this very carefully.  Initial claims used to promote alternative scenarios have been examined and rejected in the face of contrary evidence.  The "David Copperfield" flyover scenarios simply don't stand the test of reason. 

I've done the calculations for the force the fuselage would have imparted to the face of the building at the estimated speed of impact.  It was huge. 

Basically, calculate the kinetic energy (mass * velocity²).  To bring the plane to rest at the wall would require all the force to act over the length of the plane.  The work done = kinetic energy = force * distance.  Force = kinetic energy/distance.  Then consider that the force is exerted not over the entire cross-section, because the fuselage is hollow.  Only the cross-section of the shell matters. 

It would not matter if the plane had been made of hot butter impacting at that speed.  Newtonian physics tells us that the force would have been incredible.  OTOH, the wings had considerably less cross-sectional mass, and therefore were less likely to penetrate the facade.  There is, however, evidence of damage where the wings impacted. 

I know of a very reliable source who said he saw the plane hit the Pentagon while driving a truck on I395.  He said the police came flying up the shoulder and slid sideways to a stop in front of oncoming traffic.  As he sat in stopped traffic, he watched the plane hit the building.  He said it looked as though it bounced off the ground.  Actually bouncing off the ground is not physically possible, though it probably did make a final, abrupt course change at almost ground level.

  The claim that the impact site on the Pentagon is not visible from I395 is incorrect.  It's true for a passenger car, but not for a large truck.  I've driven that route hundreds of times in both cars and trucks. 

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&q=i396+pentagon&ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=38.867348,-77.063302&spn=0.000482,0.000862&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=38.867482,-77.063378&panoid=eFFPyhLXfanvsqRhAxfEJw&cbp=12,45.01,,3,2.62   

[Dig]

The damage to the Pentagon seems fully consistent with a 757 impact.  I examined this very carefully.  Initial claims used to promote alternative scenarios have been examined and rejected in the face of contrary evidence.  The "David Copperfield" flyover scenarios simply don't stand the test of reason.  

I've done the calculations for the force the fuselage would have imparted to the face of the building at the estimated speed of impact.  It was huge.  

Basically, calculate the kinetic energy (mass * velocity²).  To bring the plane to rest at the wall would require all the force to act over the length of the plane.  The work done = kinetic energy = force * distance.  Force = kinetic energy/distance.  Then consider that the force is exerted not over the entire cross-section, because the fuselage is hollow.  Only the cross-section of the shell matters.  

It would not matter if the plane had been made of hot butter impacting at that speed.  Newtonian physics tells us that the force would have been incredible.  OTOH, the wings had considerably less cross-sectional mass, and therefore were less likely to penetrate the facade.  There is, however, evidence of damage where the wings impacted.  

I know of a very reliable source who said he saw the plane hit the Pentagon while driving a truck on I395.  He said the police came flying up the shoulder and slid sideways to a stop in front of oncoming traffic.  As he sat in stopped traffic, he watched the plane hit the building.  He said it looked as though it bounced off the ground.  Actually bouncing off the ground is not physically possible, though it probably did make a final, abrupt course change at almost ground level.

  The claim that the impact site on the Pentagon is not visible from I395 is incorrect.  It's true for a passenger car, but not for a large truck.  I've driven that route hundreds of times in both cars and trucks.  

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-8&q=i396+pentagon&ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=38.867348,-77.063302&spn=0.000482,0.000862&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=38.867482,-77.063378&panoid=eFFPyhLXfanvsqRhAxfEJw&cbp=12,45.01,,3,2.62  

Just so you know, jimd3100 has been defending your account (or at least the possibility of this account) from day 1. I even banned him for it when I was still under the French mind control. Just so you know. He also is in 100% agreement that it proves that Hani was not the pilot no matter who or what was. Hani could not have made the maneuvers. No way and no how.

[Thermate Residue]

Just so you know, jimd3100 has been defending your account (or at least the possibility of this account) from day 1. I even banned him for it when I was still under the French mind control. Just so you know. He also is in 100% agreement that it proves that Hani was not the pilot no matter who or what was. Hani could not have made the maneuvers. No way and no how.

I don't know if he's playing the fool, or if he really believes what he's saying, but I'm calling him on it, one way or another.  I really believe that "violent Islamic extremism" is a combination of Western intelligence meddling, MSM smoke and mirrors and justifiable hostility toward unbearable oppression.  Every time I hear about a "suicide bombing" I have to wonder how it was determined that it was a "suicide".  If it was, was it an MK-Ultra operation?  Is "extraordinary rendition" a means of brainwashing people into becoming terrorists? 

Recall what happened with the Mt. Carmel religious compound community.  They were people outside of the mainstream American religious weltanschauung and were demonized by the MSM and Bush-Clinton mob to the point where the US Citizenry accepted a government perpetrated mass murder.  That was just a dry run for the "clash of civilizations".

[Dig]

I don't know if he's playing the fool, or if he really believes what he's saying, but I'm calling him on it, one way or another.  I really believe that "violent Islamic extremism" is a combination of Western intelligence meddling, MSM smoke and mirrors and justifiable hostility toward unbearable oppression.  Every time I hear about a "suicide bombing" I have to wonder how it was determined that it was a "suicide".  If it was, was it an MK-Ultra operation?  Is "extraordinary rendition" a means of brainwashing people into becoming terrorists? 

Recall what happened with the Mt. Carmel religious compound community.  They were people outside of the mainstream American religious weltanschauung and were demonized by the MSM and Bush-Clinton mob to the point where the US Citizenry accepted a government perpetrated mass murder.  That was just a dry run for the "clash of civilizations".

Also realize that they are now remote control detonating these guys and the more oppression, the more people are available to do anything to help their family. The Mumbai False Flag involved black ops from the DEA/MI6/SAS/CIA and some patsies who just wanted to get a few hundred bucks to their family. It makes it easy for the CIA to recruit when they misplace $9 Billion every month or so.

[jimd3100]

Did you get that the head of the FBI's counter-terrorism operations resigned in protest in the summer of 2001 because his investigations were being blocked from higher up?

Yea, I'm aware of John O'Neil, I owned a book about John O'Neil........
This one:

"When the FBI and the U.S. government continued to disregard his calls to connect the terror trail to bin Laden and his associates, O'Neill became even more disillusioned and ultimately resigned his post at the FBI. Just days later, John O'Neill perished helping others to safety on September 11, 2001, while on his new job as director of security at the World Trade Center."
http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Warned-America-Counterterror/dp/0060508221

Gee....it's almost as if he suspected something would happen at the WTC.

"By 1998, O'Neill had become focused on Osama bin Laden. When his friend Chris Isham, a producer for ABC News, arranged for an interview between bin Laden and correspondent John Miller, Isham and Miller used information put together by O'Neill to formulate the questions. After the interview aired, O'Neill pushed Isham hard to release an unedited version so he could carefully dissect it."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._O'Neill

He was studying Bin Laden before any of us heard of him.

He was the "Al Qaeda" expert before 9-11, to ignore him would be foolish.

"He was directly involved in the investigation into the 1996 bombing of the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. Frustrated by the level of cooperation from the Saudis, O'Neill purportedly vented to FBI director Louis Freeh, saying that they were "blowing smoke up your ass"."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._O'Neill

That's in the book, he said that to Freeh on the plane flying back from their "investigation", In response to head of FBI Louis Freeh telling O'Neil how well it had gone, since "they didn't make the Saudi's mad", and the Saudi's seemed to "tolerate them with patience." O'Neil was disgusted with Freeh and told him "they were blowing smoke up your ass", and they had accomplished nothing. Freeh didn't speak to him again until after they landed.

"He stated that veterans of the insurgency by Afghan rebels against the Soviet Union's invasion had become a major threat."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._O'Neill

Remember those guys? The one's that fought the Soviets? Saudi Intelligence, and American Intelligence, worked together, secretly, to fund, train, brainwash, and manipulate them to attack their enemy, the evil Godless Russian Commies. But back then they were the courageous, Religious Freedom Fighters, who hate the Godless Commies too, but now these are the guys that "Hate Freedom"..LOL...it's a f**king joke, but you have to admit it works and it's effective.

O'Neil was on the ball, and here's a little reminder....Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar Bush bought Louis Freeh because Louis Freeh is a punk, and O'neil was not going any further up in the Bureau because he wasn't a punk.....

"As the head of his own global consulting firm, Freeh Group International, Louis Freeh has been hired by Prince Bandar as his legal representative on issues surrounding the Al-Yamamah arms deal.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/bribe/2009/04/louis-freeh-interview.html  

Why would a government want a horrendous terrorist attack? After 9-11 anyone that is against any government is a terrorist to that government. Not a bad deal for governments is it? Russia was doing it's own 9-11 with it's apartment bombings in 1999.

Did you get that the head of the organization which provided the fake bin Laden "confession" videos was one of the people who testified before congress in support of HR 1955?  To wit, Rita Katz.

Yea, and?.............

That's one of the official tactics of disinformation.  The straw-man attack.

LOL! What are you talking about? It's called sarcasm. But whatever, I'll go ahead and confess and get it out of the way, if you're sure I'm a disinformation specialist.  

I've already stated my position.  I never denied that the accused hijackers existed.

Did anyone accuse you?

I never claimed they didn't operate in the US.

Did anyone accuse you?

I never said that AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.

Did anyone accuse you?

What I said is that the accused hijackers did not fly AA77 into the Pentagon.

Who's saying they did?

Now, run along an blow up some swarthy toddlers in the Hindu Kush using remote control drone aircraft before they can grow up, strap on some IEDs and terrorize your neighborhood.

Thanks for the advice, yes, the IED strap ons should come last.

Yes, I am using hyperbole.  I hope you get my point.

Well, not really, but you did get a confession out of me, and I got some good advise on terror tactics, so we both got something.

I don't know if he's playing the fool, or if he really believes what he's saying, but I'm calling him on it, one way or another.

LOL, WTF? Who's being called out on something? Was that at me?

I really believe that "violent Islamic extremism" is a combination of Western intelligence meddling, MSM smoke and mirrors and justifiable hostility toward unbearable oppression.

If "violent Islamic extremism" is created by something, or as you put it, "a combination of" something....then that implies that it exists. If it exists, then it's real.

Every time I hear about a "suicide bombing" I have to wonder how it was determined that it was a "suicide".

Because they're dead, and they died on purpose. I can't believe I was taking IED strap on advice from you earlier, you should already know this.  

If it was, was it an MK-Ultra operation?

The difference between me, and others is....not knowing.... I would presume no...others would presume yes. But different strokes for different folks right?

Is "extraordinary rendition" a means of brainwashing people into becoming terrorists?

The answer is no, at least not all the time, because there have been people kidnapped, and tortured, by "extraordinary rendition", who have been released, because they were completely innocent. But people should know about this disturbing program. It's a complete disgrace to the U.S.A.

I'd recommend these books for the disturbing info most Americans don't want to know.....

For the first time, Stephen Grey tells the inside story of international prisons sanctioned by the U.S. Government and used by the CIA to hold and torture people suspected of terrorism.
      Using contacts deep inside the U.S. Government, Grey reveals how deeply the Bush administration is involved in the program and questions the truth of statements made by Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice. He also shines a spotlight on the heads of European nations who turned a blind eye to the program when it showed up in their back yards. Grey takes an unflinching look at a horrendous practice that scorns Geneva Convention rules and is powered by corruption at the highest levels of governments worldwide.
      Through his unprecedented access to CIA flight records and dozens of sources at the senior levels of the current administration, Grey has produced a story of flight plans, extreme torture, and the clash of religions and governmental posturing that goes on today. Ghost Plane tells the stories of individuals abducted at airports around the world and transported for interrogation and torture on a fleet of leased planes manned by CIA operatives.
      Grey paints a disburing ethical picture of the war on terror and lays the responsibility for abduction and torutre at the doorstep of Washington, D.C.
http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Plane-Story-Torture-Program/dp/0312360231

This hard-hitting expose examines both the controversial excesses of the war on terror and the home-front struggle to circumvent legal obstacles to its prosecution. New Yorker correspondent Mayer (Strange Justice) details the battle within the Bush Administration over a new anti-terrorism policy of harsh interrogations, indefinite detentions without due process, extraordinary renditions, secret CIA prisons and warrantless wiretappings. Fighting with memos and legal briefs, Mayer reports, hard-liners led by Dick Cheney, his aide David Addingtion and then-Justice Department lawyer John Yoo rejected any constraints on the treatment of prisoners or limitations on presidential power in fighting terrorism, while less militant administration lawyers invoked the Constitution and international law to oppose their initiatives. As a counterpoint to the wrangling over the definition of torture and the Geneva Conventions, the author looks at the use of techniques like waterboarding, stress positions, sleep deprivation and sexual humiliation against prisoners by the American military and CIA; her chilling account compellingly argues that this "enhanced interrogation" regimen constitutes torture. The result is a must-read: a meticulous behind-the-scenes reconstruction of policymaking that demonstrates how legal abstractions became an ugly reality.
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Inside-Terror-American/dp/0307456293/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1285049801&sr=1-1

Recall what happened with the Mt. Carmel religious compound community.  They were people outside of the mainstream American religious weltanschauung and were demonized by the MSM and Bush-Clinton mob to the point where the US Citizenry accepted a government perpetrated mass murder.  That was just a dry run for the "clash of civilizations"

It's sad to say, that in 2010, I believe that the human race is so stupid and easily manipulated, that it is possible to get it fighting a World Wide Religious War. And that's pretty pathetic.