PrisonPlanet Forum
July 23, 2014, 04:11:20 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Required to report to IRS all gold and silver coin purchases and sales over $600  (Read 3957 times)
charrington
Guest
« on: July 09, 2010, 09:16:59 PM »

Starting on January 1st in 2012, U.S. federal law will require coin and bullion dealers to report to the Internal Revenue Service all gold and silver coin purchases and sales greater than $600.

A blizzard of paperwork could be about to hit numismatics.

Passage by Congress of the national health care legislation has had an unintended consequence to the nation’s coin collectors, vest-pocket dealers who buy and sell coins, and larger dealers who are frequent buyers of coins that collectors periodically liquidate as they trade up their collections for better coins, or simply sell to take a small profit or loss.

What has happened is that effective Jan. 1, 2012, the whole system of giving and receiving Internal Revenue Service 1099 forms will be turned on its head and all persons (including corporations) who are in business will now have to give 1099 tax reporting forms for coins and other goods that they sell as well as buy.

The responsibility for issuing forms kicks in at $600 for coins or bullion – not a very high level and one that has already started sounding alarm bells. It doesn’t matter in what form payment is made, whether cash, check, credit card, or Yap stone money, the $600 threshold applies.

There’s a bill introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal this section. Evidently, however, the drafters of the provision think there is a $17 billion loophole that this plugs.

Rare Coin Investing
Rare Coin Investing
Want to broaden your retirement portfolio beyond stocks and bonds?
Buy your copy today!

The Industry Council for Tangible Assets is alerting member dealers and the public at large in the hope that some sense of outrage will lead to a ready modification before the law becomes operational in 2012.

Form 1099 is used to report independent contractor income, income from dividends, income from other things – and is one of the reasons why children receive tax bills for work or labor or services performed.

Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148, signed into law by President Obama this spring) turns 1099 forms into reporting forms not only for independent contractor’s income – what they have long been used for – but also to show sales, gains and losses on purchases and sales of goods as part of a trade or business.

The section reads (in relevant part) “SEC. 9006. EXPANSION OF INFORMATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS. (a) IN GENERAL. – Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new subsections:

‘‘(h) APPLICATION TO CORPORATIONS. – Notwithstanding any regulation prescribed by the secretary before the date of the enactment of this subsection, for purposes of this section the term ‘person’ includes any corporation that is not an organization exempt from tax under section 501(a).

‘‘(i) REGULATIONS. – The secretary may prescribe such regulations and other guidance as may be appropriate or necessary to carry out the purposes of this section, including rules to prevent duplicative reporting of transactions.’’

(b) PAYMENTS FOR PROPERTY AND OTHER GROSS PROCEEDS. –

Subsection (a) of section 6041 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended –

(1) by inserting ‘‘amounts in consideration for property,’’ after ‘‘wages,’’
(2) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘emoluments, or other’’, and
(3) by inserting ‘‘gross proceeds,’’ after ‘‘setting forth the amount of such.’’

The property section means that if B. Max Mehl was selling coins to another major dealer of that era, a 1099 would have to be issued. When he bought from the public, the same thing is also required. The “report” does not necessarily measure profit or loss, but it does show activity.

The old exemption against corporations is also gone. If you buy or sell more than $600 of coins, or whatever, from, to or with a bullion dealer, for example, you have an obligation under the new law to issue 1099s.

http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=11843
Logged
H0llyw00d
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2010, 09:22:37 PM »

Bastards are scared of our underground economy, bout the only thing keeping us going here lately. Now the plans to crush that are in motion. How much more are we going to take?
Logged
xopatriot
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 692


« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2010, 10:23:58 PM »

We will take that and a whole lot more. Frankly it is rather scary that we have not done anything to stop any of this. The founding fathers went to war with King George over a 1 cent tax on tea, we on the other hand allow anything the tyrants dream up and take it. I still don't think we are at the boiling point, we are still a very lukewarm at best.
Logged

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil;  my cup overflows.
changedname
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,373



« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2010, 12:22:17 AM »

Yes, but are we not told to fear that they will use it as an excuse to delcare martial law? So once again it is fear that is keeping the people in place while they do as they wish and fear is what has brought us to this place! Fear people Fear, Fear, Fear .. Is that not what the NWO goons want us to do is to fear that were damned if we do and damned if we don't? Roll Eyes
Logged
BruntFCA2
Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 346


« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2010, 04:33:48 AM »

It is obvious that they will do this. Gold is money without a government and outside the system; they want to pretty much force you to use their fiat chits. If you use real money it's harder for them to control you.

In the UK "Capital Gain" tax has risen from 18% to 28%, this means any retention in the value of your gold money can get taxed as a "capital gain" - a notional "gain" in fiat chits that is. I would not be surprised to see them trying to bring Value Added Tax onto private gold sales - this would kill gold as an alternative money since a 20% "hit" for it changing hands would make it useless.
Logged
MonkeyPuppet
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,982


aut libertas aut mors


« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2010, 04:51:33 AM »


IRS Form 1099 is used for 3rd parties to report payments of INCOME.  This may seem like an obvious statement, but it's not... especially if you consider what INCOME actually is.

"Income" does not mean "all that comes in".  Rather, "'income' may be defined as a gain derived from capital, from labor or from both combined."  Also, for one to be liable for a tax based on "income", Congress must have an interest from which that authority is based... such as the exercise of a privilege afforded by the very existence of the federal government.

These information returns sent by metals dealers for sales of metals over $600 will automatically contain incorrect information and unless properly rebutted, the result will be a large number of individuals paying a tax calculated from their metals purchases.

Riddle me this... is acquiring gold a taxable activity?  Is the acquisition of precious metals an excisable activity?  If Congress could impose a tax upon the receipt of a precious metal, could it not impose a tax upon the receipt of anything readily available from nature?  Precedent is a bitch.
Logged


Income Tax: Shattering The Myths
w w w . original intent . o r g

The 1911 in .45 ACP... don't leave home without it!  Safety first!!
TheCaliKid
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,574


What can we do about it, really?


« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2010, 04:55:27 AM »


Riddle me this... is acquiring gold a taxable activity?  Is the acquisition of precious metals an excisable activity?  If Congress could impose a tax upon the receipt of a precious metal, could it not impose a tax upon the receipt of anything readily available from nature?  Precedent is a bitch.

Very well said.

I think all of us are feeling that box getting smaller and smaller and smaller each and every day. Getting backed into a corner is such a joy!
Logged

Better to beg for forgiveness, than to ask for permission
agentbluescreen
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,510


« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2010, 06:29:46 AM »

Bastards are scared of our underground economy, bout the only thing keeping us going here lately. Now the plans to crush that are in motion. How much more are we going to take?

All this will have a ballooning inflationary affect on the private commerce in metal commodities, and merely drive up the costs of that entire resource business. It is a perfect example of the self-defeating cannibalistic bestial greed of the corporatist anti-capitalist culture (imperial mercantilism).

All usurious taxation like usurious interest is purely inflationary. This half baked scheme will have the effects opposite to it's (ill conceived) desired causes.

It is impossible to suppress the price of a commodity by increasing it's costs. This is the classic economic firing squad arranged in a circle. It's pretty much nothing less than "gold prohibition".

The white market prices will skyrocket right along with the far more profitable (now) black market ones.
Logged
Scarbo
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 854


« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2010, 09:00:54 AM »

Could this tracking be the first step toward eventual gold confiscation, as has once happened before?
Logged
larsonstdoc
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,584



« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2010, 09:05:28 AM »

Could this tracking be the first step toward eventual gold confiscation, as has once happened before?

  Right on. 

  I know many old fools that have their gold in safety deposit boxes.  I tell them that you can't trust the bankers and they don't believe me.  Insanity.
Logged
H0llyw00d
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2010, 09:42:31 AM »

  Right on. 

  I know many old fools that have their gold in safety deposit boxes.  I tell them that you can't trust the bankers and they don't believe me.  Insanity.

Kind of defeats the purpose eh???.....gawwwwwww, people, these banks are not here to serve you, they are here to rob you..GET YOUR STUFF OUT OF THE BANKS NOW!!!!
For they will not be open to the public much longer....
Logged
chris jones
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,679


« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2010, 11:52:10 AM »

Kind of defeats the purpose eh???.....gawwwwwww, people, these banks are not here to serve you, they are here to rob you..GET YOUR STUFF OUT OF THE BANKS NOW!!!!
For they will not be open to the public much longer....
GO- silver..........
Logged
JT Coyoté
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,592


"REMEMBER THE ALAMO!"


« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2010, 01:19:57 PM »

Kind of defeats the purpose eh???.....gawwwwwww, people, these banks are not here to serve you, they are here to rob you..GET YOUR STUFF OUT OF THE BANKS NOW!!!!
For they will not be open to the public much longer....

GO- silver..........

This just further solidifies the globalist corner on the metals market. Which is what they have always been doing, and now they are taxing it at the time of purchase and sale.

The Monetary Reform bill as forwarded by Bill Still and Pat Carmack is a sure way out of this mess.

Historically, the global bankers alternatively support the Fiat paper currency and the precious metal money-markets at timed intervals. In both cases they increase the value in their favor through interest on paper and tax on metal. The implode one when they have control of the other insuring their devious enterprise.  

We are now going through one of those transition periods, and it is time to break this cycle the bankers have used since the creation of the Bank of England 400 years ago.  

Abraham Lincoln saw this in 1862 and with the help of a close adviser developed the plan that led to the Greenback, that was later used to offset the climbing interest of the Federal Reserve System until 1994 when Congress monetized the Greenback into debt as well.  

Until people realize what money really is, which the movies "The Money Masters" and "The Secret of Oz" reveal beyond doubt, people will continue to try to ascribe value to the monetary medium... in reality money is nothing more than half a medium of exchange for goods and services.

JTCoyoté

[In response to Lincoln's issuance of debt free Greenbacks to finance America,]
"If this mischievous financial policy, which has its origins in North America,
shall become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish
its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without debt. It will
have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become
prosperous without precedent in the history of the world. The brains, and
wealth of all countries will go to North America. That country must be
destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe."

~The Times of London [1862]
Logged

UK Lyn
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,728



« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2010, 03:04:07 PM »

It is obvious that they will do this. Gold is money without a government and outside the system; they want to pretty much force you to use their fiat chits. If you use real money it's harder for them to control you.

In the UK "Capital Gain" tax has risen from 18% to 28%, this means any retention in the value of your gold money can get taxed as a "capital gain" - a notional "gain" in fiat chits that is. I would not be surprised to see them trying to bring Value Added Tax onto private gold sales - this would kill gold as an alternative money since a 20% "hit" for it changing hands would make it useless.


I don't know if UK members are aware, but uniquely, the British Gold Sovereign coin is exempt from Capital Gains taxes.

At present. We all know they will fix that, the minute the masses catch on to physical.

The tax-exempt does not apply to any other form of gold Brits buy, including bars. Sovereigns only.

..


For me folks, this reporting story is one of the most horrific bits of news I have seen in a long time.  

$600?  That effectively means every damned gold coin bought & sold in the USA will be tracked.  

You guys beat THE police-state to that one (the UK), which adds to my sense of surprise over this.

In days by, yes they tried state confiscation of gold.  But they could only confiscate it once. Now instead, they see the profits in leaving it be this time, but turning you over for taxes many times as each coin passes hands as the price of gold inevitably goes into orbit.  What in-your-face opportunism, slipping this one in just before precious metals really get adopted by the people.

I hope this can be resisted, the idea of the state having their hand in your wallet is repugnant.

The idea of state employees who have access to this information of who owns gold, is also alarming.  How many burglaries will come from tip-offs?

This really needs to be resisted.  Perhaps Alex could take this one up and also George Noory needs a heads-up on this - he is into gold & silver coin ownership.




Logged

MonkeyPuppet
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,982


aut libertas aut mors


« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2010, 03:35:44 PM »


This is not a gold and silver issue, it's a tax issue.  Do a quick search in your favorite search engine for "irs form 1099" and the first thing that pops up is a direct link to the latest 1099 published by the IRS.  Notice it is for reporting payments of "income" and for reporting the sale of goods for resale.

It is not for tracking purposes, it is for use in the calculation of tax owed based on the receipt of "income" for engaging in a taxable activity.

Sure, it would be prudent to make sure all precious metals you own are actually in your possession, but more importantly, if/when this goes into effect, people need to become aware of how to rebut erroneous information reported to the IRS via the form 1099.  Example:  If you attach that 1099 as issued to your 1040, you would be affirming that it is true and correct... that you acquired "income" as a result of purchasing that gold and silver.

Personally, people should already be learning this as it applies to the remuneration they receive for working in the private sector anyway, but as brainwashed as the populace is (and afraid of the IRS), I predict a very large percentage of the population will simply acquiesce and pay whatever tax is imposed without question of authority.  The reporting of non-"income" as if it were "income" is the reason the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds for the past 70 years.
Logged


Income Tax: Shattering The Myths
w w w . original intent . o r g

The 1911 in .45 ACP... don't leave home without it!  Safety first!!
JT Coyoté
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3,592


"REMEMBER THE ALAMO!"


« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2010, 03:49:44 PM »

This is not a gold and silver issue, it's a tax issue.  Do a quick search in your favorite search engine for "irs form 1099" and the first thing that pops up is a direct link to the latest 1099 published by the IRS.  Notice it is for reporting payments of "income" and for reporting the sale of goods for resale.

It is not for tracking purposes, it is for use in the calculation of tax owed based on the receipt of "income" for engaging in a taxable activity.

Sure, it would be prudent to make sure all precious metals you own are actually in your possession, but more importantly, if/when this goes into effect, people need to become aware of how to rebut erroneous information reported to the IRS via the form 1099.  Example:  If you attach that 1099 as issued to your 1040, you would be affirming that it is true and correct... that you acquired "income" as a result of purchasing that gold and silver.

Personally, people should already be learning this as it applies to the remuneration they receive for working in the private sector anyway, but as brainwashed as the populace is (and afraid of the IRS), I predict a very large percentage of the population will simply acquiesce and pay whatever tax is imposed without question of authority.  The reporting of non-"income" as if it were "income" is the reason the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds for the past 70 years.

Correct!

In declaring income and signing an IRS form to that effect, you have volunteered by contract to pay... it is that simple.

Oldyoti

"You wanna get rid of drug crime in this country?
Fine, let's just get rid of all the federal drug laws."

~Ron Paul


Logged

EvadingGrid
Toxophillite
Global Moderator
Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 12,328


Rat Catcher


WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2010, 08:59:23 AM »

Could this tracking be the first step toward eventual gold confiscation, as has once happened before?

Well it worked the first time around....

This time it looks like the ultimate bail-out for the banks
Logged

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he today that sheds his blood with me, Shall be my brother;

Global Gulag
jofortruth
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12,747



WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2010, 09:20:50 AM »

Until people realize what money really is, which the movies "The Money Masters" and "The Secret of Oz" reveal beyond doubt, people will continue to try to ascribe value to the monetary medium... in reality money is nothing more than half a medium of exchange for goods and services.

JTCoyoté

The Money Masters:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Deception/index.php?showtopic=771

The Secret of Oz:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=180606.0
Logged

Don't believe me. Look it up yourself!

The Great Deception - Forum/Library - My Research
http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Deception/index.php?showforum=110
Valerius
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,690


« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2010, 10:38:37 AM »

$600 in gold is not a lot, either.
Logged

"No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck."  -Frederick Douglass
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!