Zeitgeist debunked for good.

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Offline THX11384EB

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Zeitgeist debunked for good.
« on: July 06, 2010, 01:18:09 pm »
Part 1: Zeitgeist the movie.

Note: Religiously I don't support any religion at all, and just to be clear I'm not Christian, I do not believe in Jesus as the son of god since my perception of god is different from Christianity and is not even tied to any known form of religion it is almost a personal view of god, the closest I am is to Buddhism which is known to respect every other religion despite its differences between them, still the difference between me and these zeitgeist technologists is that I do respect everyone Else's views even if I do not support em.

Also I'm not inclined to ANY political movement at all, I'm closer to being an anarchist that anything else so I'm not covering up for ANY political movement or view whatsoever, I'm a follower of ethics, balance and progress of not just humanity but every living thing in this earth if not this universe.

Introduction:

The documentary consists in two parts: Zeitgeist the movie and Zeitgeist Addendum.

Zeitgeist the movie consists of an introduction to the "problems" of our era which will eventually lead us to total destruction if something is not done about it, these central problems are as follows:

Religion: It starts off on analyzing the Christian Messiah also known as Jesus, how it resembles so much on the movements of the sun being the 12 disciples being actually the 12 constellations of the zodiac calendar, quoting how in the bible so many references to the sun moving through these 2150 year lasting movements of the sun through these zodiac constellations, the fight between light and darkness being actually the day and the night going down to the only possibility for there to be life we would need the sun, while these zeitgeist people forget that without the moon no matter the sun life wouldn't be possible either as it controls from the earth's rotation speed, to the tidal waves, to the careful degree the earth is inclined to, and even so not a word about the moon whatsoever.

Then it sets similarities between other gods from other religions like Baco, Krishna, etc. from birth date similarities, to life similarities, etc.

And well it says Jesus couldn't have even existed at the first place because its just actually pagan astrology being adapted into a figure for social control.

First of all that is not entirely true, for starters the date of birth of Jesus wasn't actually December 24th, the birth date was changed by Constantine when he ordered the assembling of the scripts or evangels of the disciples into forming the new testament since Constantine believed both in Christianity as well as Roman polytheism and he wanted Jesus to have a connection between the gods of this other religion and as we know Rome basically copied out all of the religious views of the Greeks and gave all the gods a different name, the god connected with Jesus in birth date is no other than the originally Greek god of wine and theatre known as Baco or Dionysus, another connection with this god is that Baco could turn water into wine.

Then we have all of these Greek religion adaptations to Christianity and again connections if not adaptations of Greek gods from that into being turned into either angels or demons, for instance we have Ades with his underworld in which souls get trapped for eternity into endless suffering and damnation, sound familiar? obviously Ades and his underworld was adapted to be Satan and the underworld given the name of Hell.

Same goes for the figure of cupid, you know, the naked child with wings on his back? hmmmm looks like a type of angel to me alright.

And even with all these adaptations from Greek/roman mythology into Christianity I'm not even close to saying Jesus couldn't exist because Oh! little me close minded atheist sees some adaptations and figures EVERYTHING is an adaptation and thus Christianity being debunked by this horrendous oversimplification of facts and very cheap falsation that means GOD DOESN'T EXIST! oh my, I didn't know you had to debunk ONLY Christianity to prove god doesn't exist, I thought for an instant there you had to determine 3.1415... into a measurable pattern, guess little ignorant religious blind asshole me can't have a sense of logic since I'm not you zeitgeist positivist know it all illuminated people.

Besides its not religion the one that should be ended, being able to CHOOSE in what you believe in is an important feature of a little thing we call FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND THOUGHT its not religion itself the one that has brought so much harm upon the world but actually it is institutionalized religion, followers of Jesus didn't bring harm upon anyone until the beliefs of Jesus where institutionalized since again institutionalizing religion is not about carrying a religious view, but it is to give power to few by manipulating many, religion as everything else is a two bladed sword (specially science) its use will only be defined by ethics and principles, its not the gun the one that kills people, its actually people the ones who kill people, for god sakes you can beat a man to death with a piece of wood, again its use is entirely defined by ethics.

Lets finish with this: A close minded scientific atheist positivist is NOWHERE near the absolute truth than a close minded religious fanatic, like the one who says Christianity is the only religion and condemns everyone else who thinks otherwise to hell into eternal damnation or the guy who blows himself up killing hundreds of people over the exact same idea, hmmmm zeitgeist technologists sound VERY similar to these fanatic assholes, seriously whats the catch?

Second part is 9/11 manipulation: I'm going to have to agree with them here, it is the oldest trick in the book, St. Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, etc. It is was all made because the Federal Reserve act has been pushing the country into having an excuse to stick their nose into every war they can so they can pay off the endless debt and inflation caused by the currency of centralized banking.

But OH! there is one problem here, about 100% of the info in here you took it out of other documentaries without even asking permission, from 9/11 loose change to Endgame by Alex Jones which by the way appears to be a Christian, and not just that but again you oversimplify the facts and don't even care to explain on what it all consists in a real deph, over nothing you are now jumping into IBM and Verichip which is also a NWO movement but guess what? carried out by RFID which IS a piece of technology, what does that got to say to you technology loving people?

Third part is about Central Banking and slavery over never ending debt: But what do I see, again oversimplification of the facts, and AGAIN you stole creative material from documentaries made by people like Alex Jones, and besides you care to explain the alliance between J.P. Morgan and J.D. Rockefeller but you don't care to explain how also J.D. Rockefeller and Leon Trotsky where also best friends and also you don't care to explain about the Bilderberg group which I think it is more important than ummm... gee... maybe... OMFG JESUS IS ACTUALLY THE SUN PUT INTO CHARACTER IM A ****ING GENIUS LOL!!!, hmmmm... wonder why... Daniel Stalin needed anyone?

So you go and bash capitalism but you don't mention the Bilderberg group ONCE which beyond capitalism or fascism its them you shall be weary about as they slowly turn you into their slave with help of such organisations such as the Tavistock Institute, the Trilateral commission, the CFR, the UN, the Commission of 300, etc, its no longer capitalism the only matter to be discussed in the table but globalization as a whole.

Part 2

Note: In this part I'm going to let the views of this second documentary breath without any judge of valor from my part, I will let people debate on it a little and then I will present my final statements upon these views for now 99% objectivity from my part.

Zeitgeist Addendum.

This second part now goes and explains very briefly the problems in sort of a review of the last documentary and then it starts to get interesting, now in this second documentary they start proposing ideas and solutions to these "must solve now" problems.


What they basically say of these problems is the following: Religion is nothing but an old fashioned way of explaining events we yet don't comprehend to their full extent as well as a very primitive way of finding a solution to the problem of why we are here as living things being completely useless for this task as well as very easy to corrupt, then it says that RELIGION does nothing but divide all human race into conflicts, death, corruption and mass manipulation for one thing: money.

The CAPITALIST GOVERNMENT of the U.S. is nothing but a corrupt government that manipulate people since it is tied to the Federal Reserve and its never ending debt loaned currency system and the only way to pay such debts is by the government going to war since even being so harmful to most of the country, CAPITALISM is nothing but a corrupt system in which its Federal Reserve Bank and its currency will end up placing most of us surrounded by it in misery while giving the riches to the few who control(s) this system, again the priority of these tyrants is to get more and more: money.

The earth is more and more going to hell due to global warming because we are dependant on petroleum and fossil fuels, and the reason green technologies keep up being so inefficient is because the same petroleum stock holders buy the patents for an improvement of the green technologies so they never come out to the market so we keep dependant on petroleum for one thing only for these stock holders: money.

They mention that if the barriers of CAPITALISM AND MONEY dissappeared from these green technologies then all of the cars in the world could be fueled with electricity very easily thus not having to use one drop of gas ever again.

Also if these mentioned barriers dissappeared then very easily solar energy, wind energy, tidal energy, and geothermal energy technologies would instantly flourish making the entire planet ecologically sustainable thus saving the planet of global warming, saving ourselves of so many wars, crimes, corruption, and finally certain doom.

Then it goes on proposing technologies like MagLev (Magnetic Levitation) actually having the potential of replacing our very unsafe and stupidly unnecessary way of actual sky transportation saying that MagLev trains since they experience basically no friction upon their travels thus making them very difficult to get damaged or worn out making up for cheap maintenance and long durability, since they are completely controlled in a "safe enviorment" it is almost impossible for them to crash and cost people their lives unlike the "very unsafe and primitive" passenger planes of today, again they say without the barriers of MONEY and CAPITALISM this technology could replace the passenger plane completely and get an interconnected wave of MagLev train lines all over the world connecting continents completely.

Then it basically goes for the kill with the following: There is no reason for humans to be competitive, being competitive is nothing but another manipulation implemented by CAPITALIST governments spread  out by social structure and the currency of MONEY, not central banking money, not resource backed money, not either of that but money itself, money is the reason why 90% of manking is in deep shit while 10% of it is enjoying the luxuries provided by ****ing everyone up through money.

The proposal: What they propose is for capitalism and money to be eradicated once in for all and for all of us to unite in a world village in which there will no longer be differences since like money religion will be eradicated, countries will be eradicated, constitutions as well and we will serve under the RBE (Resource Based Economy), through the understanding of HUMAN BEHAVIOUR the implementation of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD to solve all of our problems instead of RELIGION or any other view that is NOT SCIENTIFIC, and thus being united things like corruption, war, famine, hunger, global warming, etc. will dissappear.

Now why money exactly? well Peter Joseph and Jacques Fresco and all these people believe money invites competition, and competition invites hierarchy of social structure, and hierarchy of social structure invites corruption and finally corruption invites most of our problems of today, from greed to hunger, to war, etc.

Why religion? Because based on the views of the Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project religion besides being manipulative, missleading, and finally corrupt it also conditions people into thinking there is good and evil when based on their research there is no such thing, based on their scientific research they debunk ethics and actually say it is all based on the environment, the resources believable within this environment and psychological behaviourism which defines our ways of acting.

Finally what they propose is a global Resource Based Economy to control the world's resources and distribute them in a fair way.

What it consists on is that with a central computer mainframe per city operated by a selective group of intellectuals the social structure will base itself upon this mainframe and the "fair" distribution of resources and technology so everyone in this system can grow to its full potential and functionality based on its behavioural imprint and the resources based upon it.

Technology and Science are viewed by the Venus project as our saviours, as an extension to ourselves, and without money such things as tedious repetitive labour can be replaced through technology, even medical chirurgical procedures could be done by AI instead of humans since their views dictate that is nothing but an association process of knowledge applied to a procedure, something that they presume can be easily be done by a programmed AI.

Through behaviourism the Venus project expects to recondition everyone in the world into accepting this system so then mankind can once in for all end their problems through centralization of power giving this power to a selective people of thinkers and intellectuals and going beyond our ill present ways we can serve our real purpose on nature and have harmony with it with our new ecologically focused and world uniting social infrastructure and thus have progress until we can reach the stars.

To put an end point they say money is based on scarcity and scarcity monetary system is nothing but an ill wayed economic structure since once we get hold of the environment through this RBE there will no longer be scarcity thus there will no longer be the need for money.

Part 3.

Technocracy or tyranny?

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What they basically say of these problems is the following: Religion is nothing but an old fashioned way of explaining events we yet don't comprehend to their full extent as well as a very primitive way of finding a solution to the problem of why we are here as living things being completely useless for this task as well as very easy to corrupt, then it says that RELIGION does nothing but divide all human race into conflicts, death, corruption and mass manipulation for one thing: money.

In words of Herbert Marcuse: "...The repression of society upon the formulation of concepts equals an academic restriction of experience as well of definition."

In my words: First of all we have found that many of the information upon the first film on religion is actually wrong to an extent no scholar today approves its content even if the UN does, for example Horus wasn't born from Isis, Horus was born from a female pharaoh impregnated by Ra, still the Egyptian scripts show that she already had sexual intercourse by then and thus she couldn't be a virgin at all, and if you REALLY start to dig up the truth you see NONE of the other gods quoted in the first film where even born of a virgin mother, nor Krishna, nor Dionysus, nor any other, and just to finish upon uncovering this over simplification of manipulated data you can find from qualified egyptologist scholars that in fact Horus had 16 disciples and 4 other disciples of some other category, not 12, from the beginning there is missinformation and missleading and not at all any valid quotation or supporting of what is being said.

Second of all this is the first step of a typical positivist modus operandi of dehumanized and dignified tyranny by the simple fact they claim SCIENCE is the whole source of truth and nothing else is, this is an academic repression and a manipulation of data and information so we end up not questioning the new system ever since we would all end up having one implemented direction of view of what is reality and what isn't.

In words of Herbert Marcuse: "The abstracts are eliminated by the "objective" thought to evade any controversy. The established rationality becomes irrational upon the internal development of its discursive thought, the possibilities of the system overcome its institutions."

If you have red thinkers such as Witgenstein, Popper, Lakatos, Feyeradent, Kuhn, Horkheimer, and Marcuse you will find that most of them agree upon one thing: That there is no such thing as absolute truth, and if you read Freud, Klein and the sort you will See we have subjectivity implemented to our very roots, there is no escaping it no matter how much we want to, there is no such thing as infallible and irrefutable route of knowledge and there will never be, and the most ironic thing of all is that if there was then it would take only one scientist to discover everything there is to discover about anything, there wouldn't be new theories or falsation process, there wouldn't be a discussion of what scientific theory is right and which one isn't, so as you can see I know more about how science works that this technological masturbators and I'm not even a scientist "IM A BLOODY HUMANIST FOR GOD SAKES!!"

Now lets base ourselves on religion for the matter, ever since its existence all sorts of religions have questioned one thing in specific: what exactly are we and what is the purpose of our very existence? this as you can see is a very healthy way of thinking which has driven us to push the envelope yet even further and believe it or not this initial "religious" questioning of identity has led us to the creation of the mother of all knowledge since it was created (even of science) and that is philosophy, now philosophy IS what has led us into being what we are now, not science, science was just the kick we needed to bring us from the Renaissance to the industrial revolution and beyond, but if it wasn't because of philosophy science wouldn't even has existed at all, remember the atom was first imagined by a Greek philosopher not some scientist exiled from the world in his sterilized LAB.

Religion is not bad at all, what it is, is actually its institutionalization, and we can't deny that there has been all along throughout our history events that can't even be explained by the most sceptic scientists and thinkers out there which have led to question their partial "objective" education, a great example for this is Dr. Brian L. Weiss's book "Many lives, many wisemen".

And I'm not even finished here, as you know mathematics for example each time they try to adventure themselves into the realms of nature beyond the structural world created by mankind you start to find within mathematics what science itself calls "level of uncertainty" numbers like Pi or 3.1415... start to become estimates and not solid numbers, the go into endless decimals into unfit, all that mathematicians can to make it a solid estimate is turn everything that goes from .6 to the next number and everything below it to the previous number, something ironic is that Pi is not the same, it endlessly goes from being 5 to 6 over and over so it can't be turned into a solid measurable pattern, this is where you can see how even math without the subjectivity of humans cant explain in perfection the world around us, and we have this facts being reinforced with the superpositioning of electrons in the studies of quantum physics and quantum mechanics, nothing in this universe and in this reality is 100% accurate and it will never be, science is a very valuable current of human progress but never the ONLY valid source of progress, science to positivist has becomes the new unquestionable god, they have replaced god with an idealistic perfectly measured universe that is as far from the reality as the overhyped visions of reality of a religious fanatic, both positivists and religious fanatics become one side of the same coin.

Institutionalized religion is what has hurt human kind for so much time, but as you know its the institution which has done this not the religion itself, the catholic CHURCH has burned, killed, censored, raped, tortured and manipulated so many since its creation all for POWER not MONEY, to be the unquestionable source of power upon the masses, and that my friends are the middle ages, still if Jesus did exist and was to descend from the heavens right now the first he would point the finger at for turning his teachings into a disgusting travesty would be the Vatican, and its alarming to see that the movement goes against all religions when first of all it attacks only one religion with questionable sources, from there it "proves" there is no god and claims that religion is one of our biggest dividers, so then religions all over the world would be abolished, sorry but this is massive tyranny, it is an attack upon our freedom of thought and speech as well as our very psychology and I won't have it, and if I have to fight both the Bilderbergers and this technology masturbators at the same time to protect MY freedom and everyone Else's so be it, I rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

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The CAPITALIST GOVERNMENT of the U.S. is nothing but a corrupt government that manipulate people since it is tied to the Federal Reserve and its never ending debt loaned currency system and the only way to pay such debts is by the government going to war since even being so harmful to most of the country, CAPITALISM is nothing but a corrupt system in which its Federal Reserve Bank and its currency will end up placing most of us surrounded by it in misery while giving the riches to the few who control(s) this system, again the priority of these tyrants is to get more and more: money.

It is true that capitalism is quite a rusty system as well as a very corrupt one that can no longer address the problems of today with an effective result, specially because the central banking system loans money to the government, it is a private system controlled by very powerful bankers who LOAN the money to the government and to give it value it has to be invented through debt and inflation, and since no real source is backing its value it keeps being legal tender increasing its debt and inflation which the government can only pay through the same currency which has been loaned or through war generating ENORMOUS profit to the stockholders of enterprises like petroleum, arms, technology, recruitment, army, etc. what now is called the military industrial complex, and that's the catch, it is an endless debt which has pushed U.S. in particular to sniff around any war it can for again profit, it is an endless debt that cannot be payed, right now the U.S. owes the Federal Reserve Bank 30 trillion dollars, when it has spent 7 trillion in nuclear weapons research overall just for you to imagine the massiveness of the debt that owes to people like David Rockefeller and his Trilateral Commission which both serve under the Bilderbergers.

Since the implementation of the Federal Reserve Act by J.P. Morgan and J.D. Rockefeller the central bankers have taken the U.S. for a ride turning this into the mayor con of history of mankind, as you know power hungry tyrants such as these don't never have enough, the Central Banking system is prone to fail turning every country under it bursting into flames for not being able to control it, it is a ticking bomb set to go off, and when it does these globalists will present a "salvation" a unified technocracy where nation states dissappear under the creation of a global superstate much like the European Union but without borders, countries and constitutions, all done through the U.N. which will ask in order to secure global piece for every country to surrender all their weaponry as well as to ban the use of weapons through the public use, this is not new and it has been done before with Russia and the U.S. its two treaties called START-1 and START-2, the only army in the world left in this New Angloamerican World Order will be the U.N.'s blue helmets, and before you know it they will be spread everywhere as the new source of unique authority of law in the world, our liberties will be smashed into oblivion as well as our privacy through the implementation of fear, fear of kidnapping, terrorism, violence, etc. Movements for the banning of weapons will be asked for by the general public all driven by endless fear, laws like RFID implantable tracking devices carried out by IBM and Verichip will pass to further "secure" the safety of its people, any people who questions this new economical government will be cast aside and exiled if not worse, religions being "the cause" of most wars today will be banned and a single institutionalized religion will be implemented to further achieve social control, like in the EU all countries will serve under a single monetary currency, so if you thought Barack Obama was the top of the power in the U.S. well think again.

What is untrue is that MONEY is what gives this globalists the unquestionable power, money is just a source, a means for this power to be channelled into the globalized world, and what finally gives money any relevance upon the western world is not its legal tender, but energy, energy provided by petroleum, obviously major stock holders are Bilderbergers and to turn power absolute they need to brake the soveranity and independence of all the countries in the world, this documentary proposes a very similar "salvation" to the globalists, but in the end pretty much the same New World Order, which now is being endorsed by the U.N. and is being supported by the Clintons and the Rothschilds, all three are part of the Bilderberg group, im starting to suspect this is nothing but the same plan but with a different name.

"Boris Illinietz, a sovietic disident exiled in the 70's and that today lives the state confiscated his money before expelling him through the imposicion of a permanent exile to foreign lands due to "antisovietic activity", a key frase for the UNDESIREABLE SUBJECT.
-Daniel Estulin-

Its no longer upon capitalism, comunist Russia pretty much ended up being the same tyranny turned into a dictatorship, into fascism, and this Venus project sounds VERY communist to me, don't forget J.D. Rockefeller FUNDED the 1917 Russian Revolution along with other very wealthy northern americans, communism takes care of competition making it easier to gain unquestionable power, I will touch this point later on.

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The earth is more and more going to hell due to global warming because we are dependant on petroleum and fossil fuels, and the reason green technologies keep up being so ineficient is because the same petroleum stock holders buy the patents for an improvement of the green technologies so they never come out to the market so we keep dependant on petroleum for one thing only for these stock holders: money.

They mention that if the barriers of CAPITALISM AND MONEY dissappeared from these green technologies then all of the cars in the world could be fueled with electricity very easily thus not having to use one drop of gas ever again.

Also if these mentioned barriers dissappeared then very easily solar energy, wind energy, tidal energy, and geothermal energy technologies would instantly flourish making the entire planet ecologically sustainable thus saving the planet of global warming, saving ourselves of so many wars, crimes, corruption, and finally certain doom.

Then it goes on proposing technologies like MagLev (Magnetic Levitation) actually having the potential of replacing our very unsafe and stupidly unecessary way of actual sky transportation saying that MagLev trains since they experience basically no friction upon their travels thus making them very difficult to get damaged or worn out making up for cheap maintnance and long duravility, since they are completely controlled in a "safe enviorment" it is almost impossible for them to crash and cost people their lives unlike the "very unsafe and primitive" passenger planes of today, again they say without the barriers of MONEY and CAPITALISM this technology could replace the passenger plane completly and get an interconnected wave of MagLev train lines all over the world connecting continents completely.

It's unquestionable that we must save the earth's ecosystem and natural engine before it is to late, and we all should at least add in our two cents and the best way of doing it is getting informed, there is nothing more effective and liberating than what information gives, getting wiser, thinking, opening our eyes, and when you do this you start seeing hypocrasies everywhere, first of all Al Gore is the first hypocrite in the line of "green salvation" he talks about turning off the light and saving gas or going to electric and all that when he OWNS a f**king 737 which he uses to go everywhere, what's wrong with a lear Jet, to small for you? I mean there is NO NEED for one man to have a bloody 737 and that's not it, he serves under the CFR which proves time after time there is no difference between who "rules" the U.S. either liberal or republican, they are all the same puppets with their strings getting pulled by the globalists and the trasnational corporations.

It is true many petroleum stockholders purchase patents for better green technologies so they don't go out to the market so they can ensure profit keeping countries dependant on fossil fuels, but its not just for money it is again for power, money is just a means not the all unquestionable source of power, thats just pure bull.

Second of all most green technologies can't compete against the amount of energy and products fossil fuels provide, in terms of energy the only clean energy that gets close to fossil fuels is nuclear technology, and since chernobyl it has been satanized and frowned upon to when what you didn't know is that the power plant in chernobyl had no maintance for 20 years, it didn't even comply with the terms of regulations of nuclear powerplants of 1968, any piece of technology that doesn't get maintance and update sooner or later brakes down, its all within the laws of thermodynamics, besides we could use Nuclear energy which has advanced alot since 1984 and provide it as a temporary energetical substitute to fossil fuels while green technologies develop and get cheap, just because money is in the way doesn't mean you need to put the whole blame on money because that's just projecting yourself and how obsolete your ideas are.

third you go on proposing this "magnificent MagLev" technology and how stupidly dangerous and unnecessary planes are, human beings have always searched to push the envelope, to go where no one has gone before, to fly, banning flying and replacing it with some very farfetched and expensive technology gone global is both stupid and again restricting, you can't just go and say flying is stupid and thus shall not be permited due to the dangers it represent, first of all IT IS THE f**kING SAFEST MEANS OF TRANSPORTATION IN THE PLANET, and second of all there will always be dangers in everything we do, for god sakes someone could die with food stuck on their throat by accident, what's next, you are going to ban eating through our mouths so this doesn't happen? seriously now, are you insane Mr. Know it all old croot Jaques Fresco or what?  

Then theres more hypocrites in the line, just to inform you electrical power cars right now are more of a hazard than they are a salvation, you know how bloody much laptop batteries the Tesla car has got? about 60 and that's not all, a single battery of those polutes hundreds of gallons of water, then you have the old "charge it all night" BS, besides being very irritating the electric energy on which you are charging your "all healthy" car is powered mostly by you guessed it FOSSIL FUELS YOU MORON!

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Then it basically goes for the kill with the following: There is no reason for humans to be competitive, being competitive is nothing but another manipulation implemented by CAPITALIST governments spreaded out by social structure and the currency of MONEY, not central banking money, not resource backed money, not either of that but money itself, money is the reason why 90% of manking is in deep shit while 10% of it is enjoying the luxuries provided by ****ing everyone up through money.

If you have a pet like a dog or a cat go on and check their mouths, see those big sharpened teeth they have? it is made to brake down meat and bone, also check their fur, it is made to keep them warm when cold temperatures strike, if you have a cat and suddenly goes hide in a dark place try to point a source of light directly to its eyes for a brief moment, you will notice that their eyes shine or glow to this source of light like if they had light inside, it is because inside their eyes there is a "photosensitive film" that allows them to see at night throught the projection of any source of light, like the one the moon projects from the sun, now look at your hands, look at your thumbs and imagine what it would be not having thumbs, how difficult it would be to you to pick up tools like a pencil, a fork, a wrench or pretty much do most of the stuff you do with your hands with ease, that my friends is Darwin's evolution engine through natural selection which you guessed it is based ON COMPETITION NOT BEHAVIOURISM, yes the enviorment has alot to do with it, but the enviorment is part of it, competition between survival of species is what does the most part, escaping the predator or providing food for the herd is all evolution, and yes we have rational thinking and free will which pretty makes us being free from the chains of instict still we do have instinct implemented to our very roots and are things we can't escape, which mostly govern our vital functions, competition is one of them, see how J.D. Rockefeller wanted to take care of all competition? well heres your answer, this is nothing but manipulative missleading from these two documentaries, and again money without power is nothing but mere paper, power is what provides riches to the tyrants, not money.

Part 4 comming up.

Offline THX11384EB

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Re: Zeitgeist debunked for good.
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2010, 01:19:37 pm »
Part 4.

Time to put the dog to rest.

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The proposal: What they propose is for capitalism and money to be erradicated once in for all and for all of us to unite in a world village in which there will no longer be differences since like money religion will be erradicated, countries will be erradicated, constitutions as well and we will serve under the RBE (Resource Based Economy), through the understanding of HUMAN BEHAVIOUR the implementation of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD to solve all of our problems instead of RELIGION or any other view that is NOT SCIENTIFIC, and thus being united things like corruption, war, famine, hunger, global warming, etc. will dissappear.

"The society without money is not a new concept, it is actually an old one salvaged by the globalizing elite to exercise an absolute power over every individual, in august of 1975 Frank Church declared that The government has the technological capacity to impose complete tyranny in case a dictator shall rise to power. There wouldn't be any place to hide"

"The objective of the new world order is to erradicate decentralized powers to which independent territories must be supressed which are more difficult to control, and created a dependant european community in order to establish a Unique Global Government (universal authority, monopoly) that self-perpetrates"

"The inteligence service advisor McAlvany declared that The era of printed currency is heading to its end and a new era with a society without money is upon its dawn. If the modern ITM's can be changed for cash money then each economic transaction of your life can be catalogued and filed as future reference and, those with the power to interrupt your access to electronic money can stangle you as fast as a heartbeat. The potential for totalitarism to blackmail and control is incredible, but most people don't seem to be aware of this.

"The true story of the Bilderberg Group" 2006, Estulin Daniel, Editorial Planeta S.A., eighth edition. 2006.

"As more uncertain the luck of necessary ideals get more terrible are the means which have to be used to defend them."
-Horkheimer-

"...Still this same disolution must be put in question, not only for the good of the philosopher though for the common people in which life and in which arguments this disolution takes place. Its not about their own actions and their own commentaries, it is something that happens to them and rapes them when they are forced by the circumstances to identify their spirit with the mental process, their ego with the roles and functions that they have to perform en their societies. If philosphy does not comprehend these conversion and identification porcess' as social process', then this is, as mutilation of the mind (and body) inflicted to the individuals by their society, philosophy only fights against the phantom that of substance that it wants to dismistify. The dismistifying character is not adhesive to the concepts of spirit, ego, conscienceness, etc. But to its conversion to the terms of conduct. The conversion is a fallacy precisely because it faithfully translates the concept in real modes of conduct, propensions and disposisions and, doing it this way, it takes mutilated and organized appearances (very real within themselves) for reality."

"The one-dimensional man" 1965,Marcuse Herbert, Editorial Ariel S.A., 9th impression, june 2009.

"Money has no power without energy."
-Daniel Estulin-

Capitalism may be rusty and money may be a very good channel of corrupt power, but getting rid of them to implement a very communist global order is not saving us, it is shifting one tyranny for another, the best chance we have of saving ourselves of the problems that persuit us every day then we need to start taking action by getting informed, do something no matter as little as it is to make a difference through the colaboration of INDEPENDENT NATIONS not the BS we call globalization, that is just the first stages of the creation of a unique super-state government under the false peace flag of the U.N., we need for now to bring back the power to the people at least in the capitalist based governments, we need to get rid of central banking and shift to a FEDERAL form of currency which can be regulated by the government and their people, how im not yet sure, maybe by the backing up of a real source of legitimate value or by legal tender not based upon endless debt and inflation but more inclined to supply and demand self regulation in which money is no longer LOANED but instead CREATED AND SUPPLIED by the government to the people for the people.

Second of all we need to get rid of computerized voting systems which are easy to rig and make up for corrupt elections, also the countings should be made by not some elitist federal and easily corruptible voting caste, and either a private counting league, but by a public and neutral league of counting in which members are selected and replaced constantly by voting but still do this on public service, they would volunteer in the name of democracy and not recieve a dime for their services, it would be completely voluntary.

 Also in case a tyrant goes to power we need for congress to really watch every step that each president makes giving more regulation and power of decision to both people and congress, the presidential administration's role can be dismissed in case of an emergency to go on face to face with the tip of the point of government power, the people and the congress vs the president, congress should be appointed by people over another public league of selection in which scholar law studies are required upon the testing of the subject, when new laws are passed there should be an obligatory debate upon EVERY law instead of just reading the headlines and call for voting, it wouldn't be so fast but sure as hell wouldn't let laws like The Patriot Act to pass, in case of emergency a public national voting will be done to remove from office ANY public servant even if its a congressman or the president himself.

Also through rigorous regulation on which appointed civilians in public service take place the government shall be forced back into the caring for every little individual in a nation, public votings should be made upon the incrementation of budget fot matters like public education, scholarships, funding of university projects, etc.

Central bankers and Bilderbergers shall be put into trial for their crimes, The Bilderberg group should be exposed and disbanded, The U.N. should be reconsidered, and nations should do everything in their hands to become independent again.

Companies will no longer be treated as people under the eyes of the law, Central Banking should be banned globally, the EU should be disbanded, the privatization of ANY NATURAL AND BIOLOGICAL RESOURCE should be globally banned and any attempts on even passing a law about it should be punished by legislative power.

Research on green technologies should be funded by the government as an emergency course of action and all green technologies should be of public domain and not be able to be privatized or owned by a company in any way.

Private, Federal, and public boicoting and espionage upon the citizens of the nation should be banned and punished by the law unless in FEDERAL terms bringed to legislation upon rigoruous discussion, a limited number of individuals shall fall in the task due, and the course of action should be temporary and finished upon the neutralization of the threat towards the nation and its people.

Any attempts of behavioural or other means of brainwashing should be banned, not either the government, the public, and the companies shall practice any of these acts upon any means, either persuasion or anything else, any who attempts this will be trialed and punished by the law. 

To finish all power should be decentralized both in nations as well as continents.   

I don't really believe in capitalism but I do believe for now it is what shall be done for now, even these ideas can fail and I don't see this as a permanent solution but as a necessary temporal step into what shall be done.

What they propose: Erradicating money and capitalism will not get you rid of people having power and new tyrants raising having a vantage point for manipulation, slavery or any unethical acts, money is a channel of power, an implementation of castes through economic variation of scarcity, I agree on central banking being erradicated, but getting rid of money will not get rid of power, it will only shift its means to reach the same cause, the appearance has changed but the essence stays the same, obviously what they mean by getting rid of money is getting rid of the potential power people have with printed money to bankrupt entire banks by cashing out every penny in a single day, centralization of power is one of the purposes of the Bilderbergers and centralization of power is as well one of the purposes of the Venus Project, money tyranny will be replaced by another even more decieving and even more controlling form of power channelling, its called the Resource Based Economy.

By the erradication of religion, the systematization of knowledge and the discreditation of subjective forms of current everything that defines freedom of thought and speech would be destroyed and thus freedom of thought and speech would dissappear, mankind would raise into a unidirectional way of thinking and acting to evade any forms of controversy and questioning of the system implemented, this is something Marcuse, Orwell, and Huxley warned us about in their own different ways.

Maybe things like war, famine, and hunger will dissappear with the implementation of this system, but the price to pay is high, we would be renouncing our freedom and individuality to be perpetually enslaved both by this new system as well as technology, in the end we would be dehumanized and systematized in which the only thing separating us from AI would be our internal organs which may as well be replaced as well since Jaques Fresco himself is inclined for every human being into submiting into cyborg "updating".

Science is a delicate thing and once you take ethics out of the equation you can turn into an ugly result, science can both be a tool for human progress or a weapon for human destruction and/or slavery, puting all your bets into science is both risky and suspicious and I don't think even scientists which are not these positivist assholes and differ on their views would take such a big burden to kindly, even scientists in the end would fall slaves of the new power implemented as they did with Hitler.

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Now why money exactly? well Peter Joseph and Jaques Fresco and all these people believe money invites competition, and competition invites hierarchy of social structure, and hierarchy of social structure invites corruption and finally corruption invites most of our problems of today, from greed to hunger, to war, etc.

First of all competition is implemented into our very instinct, the food chain and the evolution engine of species through natural selection work upon competition, competition is not in any way a concept purely invented by mankind and just proposing the following about competition and its relation with scarcity shows how little do these zeitgeist technocracists really understand of the most important biological subjects known in the history of mankind, capitalism and money do invite competition but so does pretty much every game created by mankind, debate as well invites competition, the gathering of food for survival invites competition, the evolutive genetic and biological configuration of anatomy of EVERY LIVING THING ON THIS EARTH is based in a big part from competition.

Such things as greed, hunger, war, etc. are not defined by money, most of it is invited by distribution of power and the rest by hierarchical structure, and still the elimination of money wouldn't dismantle hierarchical structure in any human society since again is an instinct feature we have as well as many animals, lions have it, wolves have it dolphins have it, and we have it, we as these other three mammal species are social animals, we COMPETE for our place in our social structures, we do teamwork to reach a common goal, we impose our place upon other hierarchical structures, thus even in anarchy we create hierarchy, even the Venus project creates hierarchy by suggesting that a selective group of intelectuals will debate and regulate the global Resource Economy mainframe, they never get rid of hierarchical structure, they just get rid of middle class and impose two classes: the rules and the slaves.

Now if we define monopoly we see that it means mono, one, poly derives from polis which is city, a trasnational corporation and an institution can be themselves an inside city, or an organization of many sectors, since polis is also known to be used as many or more than two, J.D. Rockefeller for example didnít like competition and was driven to destroy any source of competition, with the funding of communism through Russia he expected for Russia to end up conquering the world and joining forces turning communist Russia into a New World Order which would become a Monopoly government, still his plans didnít work out but it seems that Peter Joseph trying to debunk the concept of competition and throwing in a very communist like mentallity sounds pretty fishy to me.

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Why religion? Because based on the views of the Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project religion besides being manipulative, missleading, and finally corrupt it also conditions people into thinking there is good and evil when based on their research there is no such thing, based on their scientific research they debunk ethics and actually say it is all based on the enviorment, the resources abalivable within this enviorment and psychological behaviourism which defines our ways of acting.

First of all its not religion the one that manipulates, censores, kills, etc. Religion in a general sense is no different than any proposal of thinking, it is just a way of thinking and a way of living, a way of thought and speech, religion alone is nothing more than something written down in religious texts, texts one can either choose to follow or not, now INSTITUTIONALIZED RELIGION is the one that manipulates, censores, kills, etc. It is an INSTITUTION, institutions are known to be either: functional, disfunctional, and afunctional. A functional institution is the one that carries out its task ethicly and properly resulting into a greater good for the group of people and other institutions it is attending. A dissfunctional institution is the one has been corrupted, does not effectivly carry out a task for a greater good and even is a prejudice to both the group of people and institutions it is attending. Finally an afunctional institution is the one doesn't carry out its task but it is beneficial to other institutions.

Institutions are known to be corruptible, they are known to either deviate from its greater good task into something greedy and corrupt or to even be these things since its very fundation, when religion meets institutions very risky and harmful things can happen, for example: The Vatican. 

Now claiming on the debunking of good and evil as well as ethics without an EXTENSIVE research is as missleading as you claim religion to be, through Freudian psychology we have discovered that we have two things implemented into our very insticts called EROS and THANATOS: Eros is the erotic, the life bringer, the drive force to creativity and creation, the empathy. Thanatos is death, the drive for destruction, the apathy, the hatred, etc.

We also have implemented into our very instincts and psychology what is called Ego, ID, and Superego: Ego is our central consciousness, our central way of being, a middle point between ID and Superego. ID is our unconsciousness, our sexual drive, our impulsive part, it is the opposite from superego. Superego is our ETHICAL part, our drive to structure and restrain from impulsive, unethical and unlawful drive. Now there are variations upon predominance of these three psychological parts which defines us human beings, We can have either a strong ego, a weak superego and a strong ID, or have it all the way around, or have a weak ego, a strong superego and a middle ID or many variations of these three. Mostly lawful sane people have all these three balanced in a general view, but people like psychopaths can have a strong ego, a strong ID and a weak superego, which results in them not having the ability of empathic assosiation and ethical structurization, driving him into braking the law, hurting people or even killing them, now these psychopaths may not be exactly guilty of their actions since again besides being a mess psychologicly they can't have a real feeling that makes them take responsibility of their actions, as well as since they cannot really have an empathic transference with anyone they are unable to tell what the other is feeling, either if its joy, sadness or even pain.

There are psychologically two types of people: Neurotics and psychotics, Neurotics are the sane people, the ones that fall under the stadistical normality of human beings, the ones that can tell reality from fiction, psychotics on the other hand are people like Squizophrenics, Psychopaths, Sociopaths, etc. This last group of people don't have a normal neural activity from the stadistical majority of human beings, their sense of reality is damaged by this or even destroyed, they are not responsible for themselves and obviously not for others around them, in some cases the level of stress applied on a Neurotic can result in a nervous brakedown and result into these Neurotics turning into Psychotics, either for again stress or genetic disposition, there is a last group which are the Borderline Psychotics, the ones that suffer psychotic paranoiah like the Obsesive Compulsives, they can be defined as Neurotics, functional people in society, but they are propense to fall into being psychotic, examples of this are people like Howard Hughes, finally there can be a detachment from reality by brain damage, either caused by a contution, by intoxication, by sickness or even by the excesive use of some chemicals.

There are several levels of evil upon humans, but the final level of evil is the ones in which tyrants fall upon, those ones that are conscious of their actions and of reality but still decide to do unethical actions, most of them to reach their goals, those ones that agree upon the statement that the ends justify the means, these are people of pure evil which have NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER of their evil acts, and this alone proves how Zeitgeist is wrong on trying to debunk both concepts of good and evil as well as ethics.

Our way of being and acting is indeed caused by the enviorment and resources around us, it may even be a major influential on the way of being of people, but it is never a TOTAL influence over our way of being, besides being genetic predisposition to psychological profiles and ways of conduct there is also RATIONAL THOUGHT and DECISION which defines our way of being, something no other animal has, for example both my families are christian and my father is a highly stiff structured person which is highly conservative on his thoughts and a major defender of money and capitalism, even with this enviormental predisposition im practically a Budhist and an anarchist, no one else in both my families has been an anarchist, im the first and yes, maybe some enviormental issues led me to that paht, but mostly my way of being is on my decisions alone, we can find MANY examples of this everywhere and with this the claim that we are entirely defined by our enviorment and resources is a lie.

Psychological behaviourism is mostly applied to animals since they don't have a sense of reason or decision, they are entirely tied to their instincts of survival, when you train a dog by punishing him when he bites something or enters the house dirty or even defecates on an unwanted place you are training the dog to no longer do those things through this is called conductual suggestion through assosiation and in the end is behavioural programming, when you give the dog a prize for performing a trick you are basically doing the same, it is a conduct driven modus operandi.

Still there have been attempts to apply the same upon human beings which I personally see as completely unethical, anyways the Tavistock Institute in which B.F. Skinner belonged is the most important group of human appliance of behavioural psychology.

The Tavistock Institute is known for very tyranical practices like the MK-ULTRA experiment and the acomplishment of the biggest mass suicide in human history at the end of the 70's, just to put into context what the MK-ULTRA experiment was you can look upon "A clockwork orange" and see some of the results of applied behavioural psychology from this experiment.

Subjecting a human being into behaviourism is much more difficult than a dog because you are actually taking his freewill away as well as power of decision and you are actually PROGRAMMING him to behave a certain way instead of another, still human beings are not built to permanently be programmed and sooner or later the programming wares off, so the programming has to be constant in order for the human being to not brake it, it requires constant manipulation to keep the human being in tune, and here is only one permanent means of programming a human being: by causing him a nervous brakedown through constant stress, there is a window in which after the nervous brakedown the subject's identity remains blank, so like if it was a recording device you can actually "record" and identity into the human being, there is also an easier way to program the subject in long term: by adressing conductual suggestion since the subject is an infant, since the subject is on its essential level of formation and its brain is like a sponge it will retain the conductual suggestion more as a determinating factor on its way of being, as you can see behavioural psychology on human beings is nothing but manipulative and even suggesting it on the documentary pretty much tells you what kind of people these Peter Joseph and Jaques Fresco are.

You may not believe it but in western world today we are constantly being programmed by behaviourist psychology, in average a citizen of a globalized country gets bombarded with more than 3000 commercials a day, these commercials are carefully engineered by publicists, mostly behavioural psychologists, gestalt psychologists, social engineerings, models of persuasion and subliminal messeging for us to be not only persuaded into buying a product, but into being driven constantly in a perpetual circle of consumism, materialism and productivity.

"The capitalist masses of today are driven in an endless motion of working to buy and buying to work." 
Herbert Marcuse.

Even if the Zeitgeist documentaries make mention and criticism of the last two paragraphs it doesn't mean it will erradicate it, it means it will replace it with something else, something similar and parallel, since again behaviourist psychology outside the reign of irrational animals works for little more than what the two paragraphs above state, it is another act of missleading for persuasion and manipulation.

"The shotgun has its place, but so the hypodermic syringe. In the chapters that follow I shall describe some of the more effective techniques for manipulating not only crowds, not entire publics, but isolated individuals.

"Brave New World Revisited" 1958, page 59. Huxley Aldous, Harperperennial modern classics, first edition of modern classics, 2006.

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Finally what they propose is a global Resource Based Economy to control the world's resources and distribute them in a fair way.

What it consists on is that with a central computer mainframe per city operated by a selective group of intelectuals the social structure will base itself upon this mainframe and the "fair" distribution of resources and technology so everyone in this system can grow to its full potential and functionality based on its behavioural imprint and the resources based upon it.

The Resource Based Economy consists of a universal centralization of power through a universal computer mainframe that administrates and distributes ALL of the resources of the earth, either biological as non biological, this universal computer mainframe will be administrated by a very selective group of intelectuals who will decide how the administration and distribution of resources and goods shall be carried out.

This is another word for GLOBAL PRIVATIZATION OF BIOLOGICAL AND NON BIOLOGICAL RESOURCES, GOODS AND SERVICES THROUGH CENTRALIZATION OF POWER, the tyranic power of money should be shifted into this system in which if a group of tyrants would ever get to be this selective group of intelectuals and suddenly decide to starve millions to death they could do it and no one outside this selective group could do anything about it since the Venus Project as the New World Order would ban the use of weapons globally and any weapon use should be holded by a "peacekeeping" universal army, both Peter Joseph and Jaques Fresco haven't talked about this but it is better for them to evade the subject of weapons restriction since if they would reveal their intentions they would be unmasked, but what they do is a smart thing, through the total control of all rsources, goods and services they would as well be controlling weapons since they fall in this category, and obviously the rest can easily be figured out.

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Technology and Science are viewed by the Venus project as our saviours, as an extension to ourselves, and without money such things as tedious repetitive labour can be replaced through technology, even medical cirurgical procedures could be done by AI instead of humans since their views dictate that is nothing but an assosiation process of knwoledge applied to a procedure, something that they presume can be easily be done by a porgrammed AI.

This is the view both Aldous Huxley and Herbert Marcuse warned us about, technology and science can not only be our saviours and extensions to ourselves, but they can also be our demise, a weapon pointed at our very heads, and you know what is the most ironic thing of all? that ethics is the one that defines science and technology from being the one or the other.

They are right on one thing, human tedious and repetitive labour like car assembling can be replaced completely by AI if there was no money, but if there was no money pretty much every job we have filled would be replaced by AI if there was no money or anything to drive mankind into performing a task, maybe things like art and science couldn't be filled by AI but still not all of us are artists or scientists, not all of us have the creativity for this and even if we did doesn't mean we are doing it all the time, I myself am a musician but that doesn't mean im composing all the time, it is even odd the process of composing music, every time I push myself into composing something new nothing results out of it, the compositions suddenly fall on my lap spontaniously when im improvising or playing something else, I can't consciously control it, so then what do I do in the meantime when I don't have to study or can't to come up with a song and im pretty much tired of being on vacation all the time? im not of those guys that shuts off so easily, I get bored and desperate sometimes from even summer brakes, and practically all jobs out there have a level of repetitiveness and tediousness, now being educationally oriented into not picking a job we end up hating and having to do our rest of our lives sounds like much more of a reasonable proposal.

Even though AI can even fill up pretty much every job except the one that involves creativity it doesn't mean it should, there are aptitudes for everything, there are people who enjoy constantly doing mental calculations by themselves even though there are more capable and faster technologies like calculators and computers to do the task, still calculators and computers haven't made us incapable of doing mental calculations now have it? and I think it never should, technology should be viewed as an extension of ourselves, not a replacement of ourselves.

Now what happens when we make AI fill up a delicate job like cirugy? there is a possibility of disaster, AI doesn't get exhausted or complain or it is difficult to do error unlike human beings, these things ill accept, but it is not flexible, or creative or even empathic which is the thing that scares me the most, to an AI cutting through a wall or a human being is of no difference to it since its based on function and procedure, nothing more, doctors instead care about the patient, upon their ethics they measure the risks applied and if they commit a mistake or confront a major obstacle they get creative and work out a solution, when you apply a machine that doesn't really care about the patient, that has no sense of empathy and ethics and that finally only bases itself on functionallity and proceedure there is possibility of disaster: One of my grandfathers had to be operated, and an experimental chirurgical AI operated him, the AI did the proceedure screwing up pretty much everywhere, anatomicly my grandfather got internally devastated and died few hours later, now if a real life empathic doctor with good sense of ethics had operated him there would have been a bigger chance of my grandfather surviving the operation, im not saying AI will always be obsolete upon cirugies, again AI will advance with technology, but is it really necessary or even worth the risk?

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Through behaviourism the Venus project expects to recondition everyone in the world into accepting this system so then mankind can once in for all end their problems through centralization of power giving this power to a selective people of thinkers and intelectuals and going beyond our ill present ways we can serve our real purpose on nature and have harmony with it with our new ecologicaly focused and world uniting social infrastructure and thus have progress until we can reach the stars.

Reconditioning everyone into accepting your views specially through behaviourism is nothing but forcing everyone against their will into accepting your new government, and so far anyone that has successfuly done that is Adolf Hitler and he is FAR from being a saviour of mankind, all this talk of reaching the stars and harmony with nature sounds great, but it also sounds suspiciously Illuminati, and besides both documentaries are nothing but constant word games, half truths, fallacies and missleading "proof", so sorry but I don't buy it.

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To put an end point they say money is based on scarcity and scarcity monetary system is nothing but an ill wayed economic structure since once we get hold of the enviorment through this RBE there will no longer be scarcity thus there will no longer be the need for money.

You are doing the classic hypodermic syringe model proceedure, using both protagonists and antagonists you give the general public a "hero" and a "villan" even though you don't believe in good and evil, the hero in the documentaries is the RBE and the villan is Money, again money is not the source of power, power can come in many forms, money is just an implemented system by again power, but it is in no way the definitive source of power.

In conclussion the Zeitgeist movement is nothing but a missleading, manipulative, positivist and finally COMMUNIST attempt of a New World Order, and it is of no surprise that suddenly BILDERBERGERS like Bill Clinton, and the Rothschild family are suddenly supporting it, and how the U.N. which is a globalist and Bilderberg influenced organization is now so easily endorsing it without question, this is one of the oldest trick in the book, you make people believe you are the revolutionaries and suddenly you are the tyrants, this is not new, this happened with Robespierre and Napoleon in the french revolution, Hitler in a broken Germany, Stalin on a false utopia ilussion, and I can still go on.

Just for you people that believe in communism or on the RBE, let me tell you that in order for communist Russia to survive so much time they had to take the liberties of their citizens away with a false movement of NO POSSESIONS AND PRIVATE PROPERTY, everything gets shared and everything is of everyone, all for one and one for all, etc. while the citizens of Russia gave up their posessions, their privacy, liberties and so on to the government, the government instead of doing the same kept with them and gave nothing in return, it was all an excuse to deprive men of their liberties, then there where the antisovietic individuals who got exiled, tortured and interrogated or even executed, the ones that questioned the system, unhuman acts where forced upon them, in the end for Russia to last so long 150 million lives had to be unecessarly sacrificed.

There is only one thing on which I completely agree with them: Seek the truth and the truth shall set you free. Gota say seeking the truth set me free from their grasp, oh the irony, isn't it exquisit?

Zeitgeist Debunked.

Feel free to discuss.

Offline THX11384EB

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Re: Zeitgeist debunked for good.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2010, 12:14:30 am »
Please note that when I posted Daniel Stalin anyone I was actually saying Daniel Estulin, I didn't know why it got corrected by the spell check, maybe it slipped, I dunno.

Offline THX11384EB

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Re: Zeitgeist debunked for good.
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 04:46:30 am »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwuy2t6025k&feature=related

My god even the film falls short for the book, Huxley was a true prophet as well as Orwell, more and more I feel the Brave New World is comming... we got to open our damn eyes.