Gunman Raoul Moat 'was a police informant for years' - Nazis publicly executed

[phasma]

No sh`t.
I`m not sure though that you are able to speak or scream once tazered - i think it locks down your whole system.

probabl screamed seeing cops with tazers 2 feet from him !

news just screened photo`s of him sitting with a gun - i didnt see a gun though

[H0llyw00d]

No sh`t.
I`m not sure though that you are able to speak or scream once tazered - i think it locks down your whole system.

probabl screamed seeing cops with tazers 2 feet from him !

news just screened photo`s of him sitting with a gun - i didnt see a gun though

you will cry out...trust me...even if ya don't want to...happened to me once, by accident, 50kv will make muscles do crazy shit

[phasma]

No doubt about that - i have no first hand experience so i`ll bow to your superior knowledge !

[H0llyw00d]

No doubt about that - i have no first hand experience so i`ll bow to your superior knowledge !

superior...no....hands on experience...hell ya...lol
you are literally paralyzed for a bit

[phasma]

i figured - so if he was paralysed - he couldnt shoot himself - right?

unless they tazed him AFTER he was dead in which case WTF man?

this is majorly messed up any way you look at it right?

[H0llyw00d]

i figured - so if he was paralysed - he couldnt shoot himself - right?

unless they tazed him AFTER he was dead in which case WTF man?

this is majorly messed up any way you look at it right?

oh yeah...wrong on all levels, seems like the guy was just another patsy in this silly ass game the rich dix keep trying to play

[phasma]

For sure - they wound him up then let him out knowing he was unstable?

They have another agenda - watch out for clues over the next few weeks

[phasma]

Moats brother -

IT WAS A PUBLIC EXECUTION

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Raoul-Moat-Police-Face-Questions-Over-Taser-Use-As-Family-May-Ask-For-Second-Post-Mortem/Article/201007215663060?lpos=UK_News_News_Your_Way_Region_9&lid=NewsYourWay_ARTICLE_15663060_Raoul_Moat%3A_Police_Face_Questions_Over_Taser_Use_As_Family_May_Ask_For_Second_Post_Mortem

The brother of gunman Raoul Moat has described the way he died as a "public execution" in an exclusive interview with Sky News.
Speaking for the first time since the death of his younger brother, Angus Moat said he watched the "horror story" unfold on his TV at home.

"I think I'm probably the only person in the UK who has watched their brother die on television, which is obviously horrific," he said.

"I felt absolutely powerless. It's happening behind glass and you're not there.

"It's all hotting up, you've got this constant round-the-clock news, it's like the whipping up to what could be a public execution in modern Britain of my little brother."

Meanwhile, the family of the man shot dead by Moat have thanked the police for their handling of the manhunt and expressed sympathy towards the gunman's relatives.

Chris Brown, the 29-year-old partner of Moat's ex-girlfriend, was gunned down last weekend.

His father, Geoffrey Brown, thanked Northumbria Police and all the other police forces involved in trying to bring the hunt for Moat to a "peaceful conclusion".

"We would especially like to thank the officers directly involved in the investigation into Chris' death and the professionalism shown by all," Mr Brown said in a statement on behalf of the family.

"Although we have lost a loved one, we realise there are other victims and our thoughts are with them.

"As we mourn our son and brother, we are aware that the cowardly act of Moat will effect others, including Moat's family who will have to live with his actions for the rest of their lives."

Meanwhile, Moat's family have told Sky News they may ask for a second independent post-mortem as the official report made "absolutely no specific mention of any taser injury".

The 37-year-old was pronounced dead at Newcastle General Hospital in the early hours of Saturday morning after a stand-off with police in Rothbury, Northumberland.

The self-confessed murderer had shot himself in the head.

Northumbria Police have confirmed that two officers shot Moat with taser stun guns during the stand-off with Britain's most wanted man.

But it remains unclear whether Moat pulled the trigger before or after being fired at with the electric shock devices.

His family said the post-mortem examination gave the cause of the fugitive's death as gunshot wounds consistent with the weapon he was carrying.

But they claim there was no mention in the report of any marks on Moat's body specifically linked to any injury from a stun gun.

There had been marks on his body consistent with "rough living".


 
Police had tried to negotiate with Moat before he shot himself



Sky's Midlands correspondent Lisa Dowd said the family have "big concerns" about the first post-mortem and are "angry" that none of them were asked by police to speak to Moat during the stand-off.

She said: "They have told me that his uncle, in particular, wanted to go and thought he could save his life but the police told him it was not safe for him to go.

"But there was a friend who was called to go up and speak to him, and he has said he thinks the discharge of the taser led to, or triggered, Raoul Moat to shoot himself.

"His friend has been saying that he seemed pretty calm and the negotiator up there seemed to think the negotiations would go on for many more hours than they did."

[Dig]

Here are the headlines:

Britain brings back the death penalty after 45 years
Hanging by the neck until dead as form of capital punishment was introduced to England by the Anglo-Saxon invaders of the fifth century, however the death penalty was abolished in 1965, for the offence of murder, the last execution was on 13th August 1964 at 8am Peter Anthony Allen was executed at Walton Prison in Liverpool. Although the death penalty remained for certain offences such as treason, these have now all been abolished, and no more executions took place. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_death_penalty_still_applied_in_England

Britain also brings back Queen/King's power of "execution without trial" after over 700 years
The Parliament of Henry III's son and heir, Edward I, reissued Magna Carta for the final time on 12 October 1297, as part of a statute called Confirmatio cartarum, reconfirming Henry III's shorter version of Magna Carta from 1225....For modern times, the most enduring legacy of Magna Carta is considered the right of habeas corpus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

[phasma]

Atleast the family are on the ball

A second post mortem would be a good start

The IPCC (independant police complaints comission) have said they will visit Moats brother (Angus Moat) this afternoon at 3pm, following his comments above - which were goven during a interview on Skynews

There are no tazer marks on his body - they say. . .

[phasma]

[phasma]

This from the telegraph today

who are they trying to convince?

and, that looks kinda short for a shot gun?

[Polaris]

Hey guys. I haven't been fallowing this story as long as you have, so tell me if I understood correctly.
This whole show parade is to demonstrate to the public what happens when you escape the grid (when full blown police state comes). They'll even
send jet pilots looking for you. Its just like in the movie public enemy. There is no escaping no matter what.

[d0rn]

This from the telegraph today

who are they trying to convince?

and, that looks kinda short for a shot gun?

Looks more like a sawed off shotgun.

[H0llyw00d]

Looks more like a sawed off shotgun.

it tis

[phasma]

@Polaris - EXACTLY - ONLY, they knew he would do this, his prison release forms warned local police he would kill his ex girlfriend, They knew, but they let him go. . .

seriously, tornado`s to find one guy?

It is beyond a joke. The police are going to go smother his brother this afternoon in an attempt to shut him up. If he doesn`t watch and see, he`ll end up dead next.

[phasma]

His Brother, Angus, just said that he had the gun to his head, they hit him with a tazer gun, all those volts caused his finger to contract and pull the trigger, he was going to give himself up . . .

he`s right of course - mass electrocution causes muscular contraction.

the way i see it :

If he had shot himself there was no need for tazering (and it woulod have been too late to tazer him once he pulled the trigger anyway)

If he was tazered he ought not to have shot himself

[Dig]

McChrystal's Secret "Death Star" TV: Watching Afghans Blown-up for Entertainment

Sacked General led Secret War Raids

Kim Sengupta
Saturday Jun 26, 2010

They called it the "Death Star" because according to one source who worked inside it, "you could just reach out with a finger and eliminate" somebody.

On the walls were television screens, known by the special forces boys as "Kill TV", where footage from image-intensifier cameras of the enemy being blown up by air strikes, or being gunned down by undercover hit teams was shown.

This place was "the Machine", a state-of-the-art military command centre hidden away in an airbase in Balad, a desolate stretch of land north of Baghdad.

It was created by Major General Stanley McChrystal, the chief of United States Special Forces, the most secretive force in the American military.

Here, in the permanently darkened communications cockpit, dozens of US and British (SAS) personnel would gather around as nightly raids took place against al Qaeda and their insurgent allies.

Sometimes McChrystal would lead the raids himself, his squad of elite undercover combat troops, known as Delta Force, being told at the last minute that the commander was coming along for the ride.

No one was quite sure what the Pentagon policy was on two star generals going on such dangerous missions, but then very few people in the US Department of Defence, and even fewer outside it in Washington, were even aware of these shadowy operations going on in Iraq.

This was the secret and violent world which shaped Stanley McChrystal, who three days ago was sacked from his job as commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan.

The irony, as his colleagues were pointing out yesterday, was that his spectacular downfall was not due to some illicit military action, but because of a magazine article his aides had arranged in order to publicise his most recent high-profile public career.

Nevertheless, the seeds of what was to bring him down may have been planted at his time running "black ops" [operations], the head of a close-knit team answerable to very few, where decisions were made about life and death on a daily basis.

The autonomy was not just military.

McChrystal and his men would go into the badlands - at that time most of Iraq - to make deals with local tribal leaders, pay out money, organise allies and informants. There was no question of practical civilian oversight as no diplomat, American or British, would venture into these areas.

Thus McChrystal and the group around him, many of whom would follow him to Kabul, would have little to do with US or British civilian leaders.

Their mistrust of what one of them described to Rolling Stone magazine as, "the wimps in the White House" was almost inevitable because of the shadowy nature of their work.

When they did meet the civilians, the men did not have much to say to them, because so much of what they knew was classified, and thus could not be imparted.

One American officer recalled for example how much McChrystal disliked entering the Green Zone, the heavily fortified conurbation in Baghdad where Western administrative officials were based.

"Stan always looked uncomfortable, he hated all the red tape. I guess, if anything, he was happier talking to the Iraqis than to most of our own people from State [the State department]; he wasn't a networker."

The General's preference for cultivating local leaders rather than Western officials continued in Afghanistan, where the President, Hamid Karzai, and others would speak of their regret at his departure.

But friends of McChrystal's say his time in Iraq should be put in context. It was the most ferocious period in the conflict following the US-led invasion, with Sunni and Shia militias killing each other and Iraqi and foreign troops. Armed criminal gangs were on the rampage, kidnapping and extorting money from an unprotected population.

McChrystal had been told, goes the lore: "The gates of hell had been opened and you have got to help to shut them". The US forces, stuck behind their heavily guarded bases, only able to move around in heavy armoured convoys, were not the answer: the war would have to be taken to the insurgents.

Over cups of coffee at the main US base, Camp Victory, McChrystal described to fellow officers, like the British Lieutenant Colonel Richard Williams, then leading an SAS unit in Baghdad, his plans to carry out relentless rounds of night raids, killing or capturing insurgents, especially their commanders, and break the cycle of the militant groups "organically" reproducing themselves.

There were many figures among the coalition forces who questioned the approach. One senior British officer dismissed the notion that such "industrial counter-insurgency" could work. But the targeted attacks began, and along with prisoners came intelligence vital in the programme of "decapitation" against al Qaeda.

McChrystal was in his element, eating just one meal a day, sleeping no more than four hours a night, constantly demanding more information on the militant networks.

Among the few "artefacts" in his spartan accommodation was a prosthetic limb, belonging to a Sunni sheikh his men had gone to hunt but failed to find. The false arm had been abandoned during the man's hurried getaway.

However, questions were being asked about how information was being obtained. There was an unofficial inquiry into the treatment of detainees at Balad. McChrystal was absolved because he was not there when the alleged abuses had taken place.

But then came information from a captured suspect which vindicated the commander's approach in the eyes of the US military. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, had been blamed for hundreds of bombings.

It is highly unlikely that all of them were his group's handiwork, but the publicity helped create a myth of a master terrorist and Washington was demanding he must be stopped.

Intelligence agents working with McChrystal spent weeks winning the confidence of a suspect captured in the "Sunni Triangle" south of Baghdad. They eventually got a location where Zarqawi was staying, enabling the Americans to carry out an attack mortally wounding the al Qaeda leader.

There were other successful operations, with the British SAS taking part in some of them, like the freeing of the missionary Norman Kember and Shia sheikhs supplying arms to be used against UK forces in Basra. Like their American boss, the SAS reported the bare minimum back to London.

In Afghanistan, McChrystal initiated policies which may have been an attempt to curb the lethal violence of his past. He brought in the doctrine of "courageous restraint" to minimise civilian casualties. He ordered air strikes, which had killed hundreds, to be significantly reduced in scale.

But he demanded control of the special forces operations, which had been run by a separate command under his predecessor, General David McKiernan. Iraq-style night raids dramatically increased, causing outcry from human rights groups, which complained that innocent civilians were often being killed by masked assailants.

It was only in recent days that General McChrystal ordered them to halt, saying the killings of insurgents could not justify the local alienation. It was one of his last actions as commander before he was ordered back to face the wrath of his Commander in Chief.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10654454

Yup, we can see the writing on the walls

[agentbluescreen]

Well IMHO the only rightful and dignified form of capitol punishment - ever - should rightly only be by suicide.

Thankfully a law enforcement officer need not feel guilty for this sad spectacle .

[H0llyw00d]

[Georgiacopguy]

you will cry out...trust me...even if ya don't want to...happened to me once, by accident, 50kv will make muscles do crazy shit

Having been tasered for training, and observed other officers and people getting tasered, you will either lock up, clench up, or spasm on a small scale.  Fine motor skills go out the window. Gross motor skills are all that remain if at all. Some people scream, some people cannot even murmur. But it effects each person a little different. Which is why I do not like it; there are too many ways for it to go wrong with the variances that account for each victim, their circumstances, or the circumstances of the situation.

Howroverever, suggesting that two tasers being used tends to stack the voltage, they do not work that way. The voltage is not cumulative. The T waves that affect the nervous system cause short circuits of the nervous system. So using two or one or three isn't going to make a dramatic effect. it looks dramatic, but makes almost no change in the way the devices function. For demonstration purposes, I've been on the receiving end of two tasers, and the result was not that far different from the single taser. I'm thinking they took a much more active part in killing him, and the tasers were a PR stunt, in order to justify the killing, because the tasers did not have the desired effect, or they are throwing the two stormtroopers who fired them under the bus as sacrificial lamb to the slaughter of public opinion.

[holyghosttrance]

The degenerate media and police are both complicit in this, the former for totally sensationalising the situation even to the extent of finding his mentally unstable mother, getting the quote "he would be better off dead" and the later for insane overkill and possible murder (if they tasered him with the gun to his head). His brother even went so far as to say the police seemed to have had the whole situation planned out with an agenda despite the fact he offered to help with the negotiation process. The police apparently ignored him and he was forced to watch his brother get a "public execution" thanks to the despicable media who themselves clearly have only one agenda, to get as much attention as they can no matter what the decremental effects. It seems very likely this whole thing at the very least has been used to intimidate the public and divert attention from more important global issues.

[Freeski]

The degenerate media and police are both complicit in this

That is the truth!

[phasma]

So the latest is this - there were two teams - one coming from he left flank, one from the right, they were sneaking up on him, but he heard them.

One team fired a taser - but it hit his coat and didnt work, then simultaneously he shot him self while a second guy fired another tazer.

The type of tazer used was "illegal" (Not okay`d for use in the UK) Its a "shot gun tazer called the XREP Taser (long range weapon - scary !)

There is more to this story yet

[phasma]

The above from the itv news at 10.

[Georgiacopguy]

Now think of an automatic shotgun firing those things at high speed and high volume against a crowd.

So the latest is this - there were two teams - one coming from he left flank, one from the right, they were sneaking up on him, but he heard them.

One team fired a taser - but it hit his coat and didnt work, then simultaneously he shot him self while a second guy fired another tazer.

The type of tazer used was "illegal" (Not okay`d for use in the UK) Its a "shot gun tazer called the XREP Taser (long range weapon - scary !)

There is more to this story yet

[Dig]

Now think of an automatic shotgun firing those things at high speed and high volume against a crowd.

[Georgiacopguy]

I was referring to a more man portable type of deployment, such as the AA-12 loaded with the XREPs, "Mr. One-up-ya".

[2stevejc]

So they were close to getting their new Life Saving Taser in through the back door.

The media are having a problem with all these people saying he was a lovely guy, what, there's 2 sides to every story, when did that shit start.

[phasma]

It started as soon as the news broke !

Its basically an illegal weapon in this country. They are up against it when trying to explain why it was used. If they wanted to try and intro it and use this as PR then they messed up. BIG TIME>

[Georgiacopguy]

It started as soon as the news broke !

Its basically an illegal weapon in this country. They are up against it when trying to explain why it was used. If they wanted to try and intro it and use this as PR then they messed up. BIG TIME>

Hopefully this poor lads death may serve as a wakeup call for people, and maybe, just maybe, they won't allow that poor excuse for a torture device into that country.

[phasma]

I`m guessing they`ll allow it.  I`m guessing its use probably bought about his death. either by shocking him when he had a gun to his head - causing contraction and him to shoot himself - or it actually killed him.

coroners inquest opened today.

lets see if its hushed up.

[worcesteradam]

this guy was a licensed gun owner
and yet you read all the stuff in the media about what a violent thug he was.

so, does gun licensing work?

[phasma]

Works about as well as banning them !

ie - not at all

@ worcesteradam - the guy with the manic face on your pic is the guy they say shot him with the tazer

[Dig]

this guy was a licensed gun owner
and yet you read all the stuff in the media about what a violent thug he was.

so, does gun licensing work?

Here is all you need to know...

HE WAS AN INTELLIGENCE INFORMANT FOR MI6 FOR YEARS!

Any intelligence informants that only leak one email to one person better leak everything to everyone ASAP or they are going to De Menezes your asses.

Watch Smoking Aces Assassin's Ball to find out what the Brzezinski chess players are planning for all intel operatives used over the past 50 years.

[Georgiacopguy]

Here is all you need to know...

HE WAS AN INTELLIGENCE INFORMANT FOR MI6 FOR YEARS!

Any intelligence informants that only leak one email to one person better leak everything to everyone ASAP or they are going to De Menezes your asses.

Watch Smoking Aces Assassin's Ball to find out what the Brzezinski chess players are planning for all intel operatives used over the past 50 years.

Are you suggesting they are about to clean house?

[2stevejc]

Here is all you need to know...

HE WAS AN INTELLIGENCE INFORMANT FOR MI6 FOR YEARS!

Source? Can't find anything on that one!

[worcesteradam]

It is not clear whether the Tasers were fired before or after the former nightclub bouncer turned his gun on himself, Independent Police Complaints Commission Steve Reynolds said.
The senior investigator told the hearing at Newcastle Civic Centre in Newcastle: 'At about 19.25 on Friday the 9th July a member of the public sighted  Raoul Moat on Riverside, Rothbury and alerted police.

'Armed police contained Mr Moat and negotiators were deployed hoping to allow a  peaceful end.
'He was in possession of a sawn-off shotgun and had it pointed at his head. At 1.12am Mr Moat's shotgun discharged, resulting in him receiving fatal injuries.

'At some point around the time of the fatal shot two West Yorkshire firearms officers armed with Tasers discharged their weapons at Mr Moat.
'This was understood to have been in an effort to prevent Mr Moat taking his own life.
'At this stage the precise sequence of events regarding the discharge of Taser has not been established and is under investigation.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1294378/Did-police-shoot-Moat-unapproved-Taser-rifle-killer-turned-gun-himself.html

Getting your story straight is a real bitch

[Dig]

Source? Can't find anything on that one!

Gunman Raoul Moat 'was a police informant for years'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1293951/Gunman-Raoul-Moat-police-informant-years.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
By Kate Loveys  Last updated at 1:49 PM on 12th July 2010

Gunman Raoul Moat acted as police informant for years, it was claimed last night. The killer, who shot innocent PC David Rathband and had vowed to murder other officers, had spent years handing information to police.  And it is believed that his relationship with the police had enabled him to avoid jail despite a string of arrests for violence, including conspiracy to murder. Informant: Acquaintances have claimed Raoul Moat was a long-time police informant who turned on the force after he was jailed for assaulting a minor. Despite considering himself 'untouchable' by the law, Moat eventually received an 18-week prison term for assaulting a minor. It is claimed the sentence sparked his hatred of the force and his 'declared war' on police. The claim was made yesterday by his former friend Brian Moulding who learnt Moat was feeding information to the law when he gave evidence to help police prosecute him. Mr Moulding, 29, of Newcastle, told the Mirror: 'I have evidence that proves he was a police informer. I learnt he was an informant because it was referred to in the legal papers in my case. 'I often wondered why he constantly seemed to escape justice whenever he ended up before the courts and that’s when I realised.  

'Given his history and his constantly saying he hated police, you would not believe his past.

But it was a front to cover what he was in front of his criminal associates.'

PC David Rathbone after he was shot in the face by Moat and, right, the gunman with one of his children. It has been claimed he received a number of lenient punishments during his time as an informant. Mr Moulding said in one instance Moat had shown officers where some stolen number plates were hidden. Moat first became known to the police in 2000 when he was held for conspiracy to murder. He was freed without charge. In 2005 he was charged over possessing a knuckle-duster and a samurai sword. Despite admitting having an offensive weapon he walked away with an absolute discharge, a sentence usually reserved for defendants who get a tougher sentence at the same time for another crime. Moat was also involved in minor scams such as driving away from petrol stations without paying for fuel. A source who knew of Moat’s history said: 'You would expect a man capable of shooting and killing to have a series of convictions. Moat was detained onmany occasions yet was barely touched by the courts. He had a charmed life.' Another source close to the case said: 'He was arrogant whenever court officials dealt with him. He thought he was above the law.' Northumbria Police paid informants nearly £192,000 in 2008-09, the seventh highest in the country.
 
A source said: 'We know Moat had a grudge against us. The assumption was that he hated us because he was locked up. We could not comment on our use of informers.' Last night a former girlfriend of Moat and the mother of two of his children, Marissa Reid, 37, told how he had made her life hell with a string of beatings, a vicious rape and mental torture during jealous rages fuelled by a cocktail of steroid drugs.  Miss Reid, who had a nine-year-relationship with Moat, told the Mirror: 'I always thought that he would kill me and just hearing his voice would make me shiver.  'That man was a living, breathing monster. Thank God he's dead. He made mine and my children's live a misery, I can never forgive him for that.'

I bear no malice towards Moat, says shot officer The police officer who was shot and injured by Raoul Moat has today said he bears no malice towards his attacker. Pc David Rathband also thanked everyone who had helped him and sent him messages of support. In a statement issued through the Northumbria force, he said: 'I bear no malice towards the man who shot me but now wish to move on with my life. 'I am acutely aware of the impact events have had on many people and my thoughts are with them all, particularly the family of Chris Brown.' He added: ''My injuries are life-changing. It will require significant adjustments in the future in all aspects of my life. 'I enjoy my job as a police officer and I am totally committed to serving the public. 'Although I face long-term treatment, I am determined to return to duty as a police officer.' The 42-year-old married father of two was shot in an 'unprovoked attack' at a roundabout joining the A1 and A69 in East Denton, Newcastle, in the early hours of Sunday, July 4.

[chris jones]

The word comes down from the big dogs, what are we to do?
Silence him....The stories here are conflicting, i can't give a oppinion on Moat, but i can on a personell situation.
 my Uncle Richy, during the depression after his father died he let school to support his family, being the oldest. He worked for an oil company in Quicy Mass. cleaning oil tanks.
This required staging over  the tanks, boiling water with chemicals inside the tank. he was working the staging and a plank broke, he fell into the mix, holding on to the side of the tank. His burns were from the waist down. How he survived is beyond comprehension.
During his hospitolization and recuperation period of 2 years the oil firm(standard oil) did not help the family. Whne he left the hospitol and approached the company for fincial aid, he was laughed at and expelled from the supervisiors office.
Easy to understand he went over the edge  and began robbing banks. He was incacerted once, and returned to his life of crime. His MO was disquises and it must be mentioned he never carried a loaded gun, eahc and every robbery he committed was done with an empty revolver.
His last heist was in Mass. he was disquised as an old lady, veil etc. he was caught after the robbery, the police removed his unloaded weapon , brought him to a secluded area and pumped over 30 rounds into him, on a par with target practice.
When the street cops take out a guy, it is under orders, and usually a select group.