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Author Topic: More intellectual cover for bullshit attempts to change the constitution  (Read 4618 times)
IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« on: July 02, 2010, 12:23:09 PM »

It's all failed! Why? Because we 'elect' people to represent us, instead of representing ourselves. Each congress person 'represents' something like 700,000 people. Impossible! Even if the guy you vote for would represent you, when he loses, you're out. Half the people always lose, and then have to wait in disappointment for years for another chance to potentially lose all over again.

If you want to be lead, then you will always be the slave you already are. If this were to be a movement, let it be a leaderless Leader Movement, where you lead yourself. This may all sound insane, but when you see what this is all about can you say I'm wrong?

Half of the people out there don't even vote. Why? I'll tell you. They already understand that it's irrelevant. There's so many important issues to try and understand, and now we're supposed to study up on all of these different candidates at different levels and try to figure out if they'll represent us. Odds are, not well enough, at best. Most of the people who didn't vote in 2008 likely understand that both McCain & Obama are puppets. If I'm not mistaken, virtually every political poll is formed by polling registered voters. The non-voters likely don't even want to be led to begin with, which is good. If you don't want to be led, then you lose either way. If only we could choose what laws are passed, and what is funded, and what isn't...

Few people even take the time to really understand the issues. Why? Considering what's already been covered, and will be, why bother? If you can't participate directly, and are almost sure to always be disenfranchised, why get all caught up in the drama?

Hardly anyone pays attention to or participates in petitions. Why? Odds are they're irrelevant. Suuure... you can sign a petition, and mail it in, and it goes to the shredder. If people believed petitions would do anything most would be involved. It's hard to find the important petitions anyways. It's not like they're hanging up at the local Post Office.

Few protest. Why? Because it's a rare day that it has any bearing on policy whatsoever. Why go and get shot by various painful devices, by thugs in storm trooper armor, for no reason? It makes no sense.

The US Constitution is flawed. Why? Because even though it did its job over 200 years ago, it still eventually leads to the system and situation outlined above. It isn't specific enough about limiting power, for the modern world. How to upgrade it is what this is all about...

Most congress critters are crooks. Why? Because they can vote themselves raises. Because they can get elected again and again. Because they have to do whatever it takes to get elected again, to perpetuate their own prestige. Because the system inherently involves special interest groups. Because the system inherently has those special interests groups going directly to the congress critters instead of directly to us. Because they don't have to read the legislation, and half of them don't even know how to read the language its written in even if they tried.

Presidents are absolutely corrupt. Why? Because they are a product of all of the above, and the rest of the system built up around DC only allows the corrupt from their ranks. The office of president has too much power. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The Supreme Court is no better off. Why? Because the 'justices' are selected by the President, and are 'confirmed' by the congress critters. And on top of everything else, they get lifetime positions. How many justices have you ever heard about getting thrown out for being scoundrels? How many Supreme Court justices can YOU even name (event though they have the most power in the government)Huh If you confirmed them yourself you'd know all about their names and what they're about.

Elitists and their banks and multinational corporations wield the true power. Why? Because the system is designed for corruptible humans to be 'elected', and then do things whether we like it or not. The system we know today will always build up under this scheme, to where those with power can electioneer the playing field where we get little choice in the end.

The Iron Law of Oligarchy, states that all forms of organization, regardless of how democratic or autocratic they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop into oligarchies. The reasons for this are the technical indispensability of leadership, the tendency of the leaders to organize themselves and to consolidate their interests; the gratitude of the led towards the leaders; and the general immobility and passivity of the masses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

Political parties, as we know them, need to go. Why? Because having large organizations inherently leads to the Iron Law. And history has proven that the 2 biggest ones will work together to smash their competitors. Independent candidates can't even get into the debates. If politicians are marginalized then what do we even need political parties for anyways? All we need are philosophies. The more the better. Currently there are only two, oh and some 'unelectable' independents somewhere out there sadly 'embarrassing themselves' by perpetrating their own futility.

Few are willing to FIGHT. Why? Because even if we voted out all of the incumbents, and undid most of the unconstitutional 'laws', it would be no time before we're right back to square NONE.

Basic psychology: People will either FIGHT or FLIGHT, when faced with problems. If they know they have no chance, they'll go back to American Idol to enjoy whats left of the party, like it's going out of style, because it is. If people even stop to think things all the way through, they'll end up realizing it will just go back to the way it was. No wonder all of those 'sheep' 'idiots' out there go into denial. If the most powerful system ever is evil, yet you can't do a thing about it, why messy up your outlook on life in acknowledging it?

What goals can the overwhelming majority even agree on to be worth fighting for, that isn't merely the same flawed system aforementioned? Why fight, and face death, when the pay off isn't as grand for us today as it was for those who fought in the original rebellion? Tyrants won't just hand over power. It doesn't take a genius to understand that, meaning, anyone can see the stakes of trying to truly take the power back will understand the lack of payoff for the risk involved.

Accountability? Nice try! Government accountability is dictated by all of the above, and below. The career politicians, even when failed, keep their jobs because they were 'elected'. And these same cronies are in charge of firing the government employees below them. Take a look at the total absence of reprimands after 9/11 to realize what a joke the concept of accountability is. It's like a kleptomaniac walking into a store, with no cameras or security tags, with only one employee present (that they know, who lets them steal), and only one customer (up at the front counter). Will the thief steal?

Lets go to the point:

All of the problems above have had me 'lost' trying to find a set of solutions, for over a year.

We need a new system that most can agree on. Who disagrees with any of this, and why? Let's find the solution. Without mass scale agreement, any movement is doomed. As it stands, the motions already in progress, currently only divide. If people want to fund global warming related studies, let them. If people want to fund alternative energy research, into breakthrough technologies, let them. If people want to fund the military, let them. If people want to fund abortion programs, or anti-abortion programs, let them. But let not even one of them fund something they don't support or believe in.

The power of mass agreement, and belief in, is potentially more powerful than the solution itself.

The only way to do all of this, that I've ever heard of or thought of, is...

Consensual Taxation (only).

In practice it's technically not a tax, it's more like donating to what you support.

Imagine your 'tax form' being more like a book, a massive checklist of sorts, where you can go through literally all of the various things the government is trying to do, all of the little things we normally get taxed for, all itemized for you to either ignore, or support.

In addition to this, 'Electronic Direct Democracy' could be heavily supplemental. The idea that we directly participate in the legislative process, further marginalizing the positions of congress and office of president. Despite the thread title, we don't necessarily have to "END" these things, but we do need to to marginalize or transform, end the way they operate as we know them. Sure we need a Supreme Court, but the citizens should confirm them, only by overwhelming majority, with plenty of time to wait it out (due process) to ensure that we know all there is to know about them.

I do realize the pitfalls of the traditional idea of direct democracy: MOB RULE. The premise of mob rule is that the 'mob' rules, not the law. The rule of law has obviously failed, because we have a form of direct democracy, where those with the most power, mobsters, RULE, and all they have to do is keep the masses divided over supporting the policies they perpetrate. The Rule of Law isn't properly enough defined by the Constitution, as proven by our situation. And when it comes to the 'dumb' masses, I doubt they would have ratified the 16th Amendment, Federal Reserve Act, and so on. Now that's all most of us have known our entire lives, its no wonder they roll their eyes when we say fiat currency and income taxes are wrong and illegitimate.

One item under the rule of law, which the electronic democracy cannot vote against or over-ride, is the inability for government growth to exceed economic growth.

This has been off the charts for a long time:

http://grandfather-economic-report.com/piechart.htm

The US Constitution? It needs to be upgraded. Think of it as a computer Operating System. Having been written in the 18th Century, with this being the 21st Century, the original Constitution we all know is the equivalent of MS-DOS, compared to Windows XP. Anyone familiar with Windows OS's, and how they should work, knows that it doesn't take but a handful of months of online use until it becomes corrupted, needing a HD format and re-installation for it to work at full capacity. In our government, the system needed to be re-installed in 1912. In 1913, it went into worm virus meltdown, and somehow it's still going on today, almost 100 years later. We don't just need to reformat the hard disk. We need to upgrade the PC and the operating system.

So yes, END the US Constitution, as it is today. It's impossible that a document written before electricity was invented could have total relevance today, in the 21st Century. Clearly, it wasn't written with enough detail, and clarity, for it to not be manipulated today. We need a wake up drive. Clearly, just trying to return to the Constitution hasn't been enough.

But the masses are 'dumb'? Not quite. Over 200 years ago most people still couldn't read. Today we have the Internet, and most people can. The catch is getting them to wake up and get involved in research, and reflection, and so on. That little challenge is one of the strong points of all of this!

Re-education? No! Education. People need to understand the psychology and social psychology that is used to manipulate them. They need to have a full on deep insight into concepts of tyranny, and imperialism. They need to know all of the aspects and facets of systems that push systems into the Iron Law of Oligarchy. The dark side of systems of politics and economy, Communism and Capitalism included, are necessary aspects of realization, to not all be self-deluded. We all need to understand these things so that we can all consciously work against them. We need to learn this stuff as children, instead of being preyed upon as children by massive advertising firms bent on manipulating us into being mindless brand loyalists for the rest of our lives.

Revolution? Oh, you mean go back in a circle to the past? No! We need a renaissance. Revolving back to 200 years ago is not such.

Blackmail:
Another key example of why its hopeless having people politicians at the helm: They can be blackmailed. Many argue that most politicians have little hope of even making it big unless the elites have dirt on them that they can ruin their careers with if they step out of line. "Closet homos" and all of that.

Under this precedent, it's too dangerous having so much power in the hands of the politicians. If they're controlled then we're controlled its as simple as that. The elites would be pretty hard pressed to blackmail each and every one of us to try and control how each individual votes or what they fund, much like the special interest groups wouldn't be able to do one on one persuasion with every citizen.

Group Think:
I say end political parties because having parties ensures irrational group think blind loyalty. Instead, for whatever role we intend to be tomorrows version of 'politician' should be, that parties are done. Instead, we get a detailed profile page that covers the issues and the 'politicians' philosophies behind each issue.

Just having "two" parties only equates to obscene loyalty. If the Republicans had their wat Ron Paul wouldn't be allowed to claim to being Republican. Arguably, he he to run republican all those years just to have a shot at making the debates if he ever ran again, like he did in '08.


Am I wrong? Why? Do you have better, or supplementary ideas? I truly want to hear them, all. Weaknesses or additional strengths in any of this? I need to hear them all too.





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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2010, 04:12:12 PM »

Ok, I don't mind it getting moved to the 'right' forum, but why was the thread title changed?

I actually wanted to reword it a bit differently, but this new title is nowhere near my wording. This goes dramatically beyond just getting rid of the 2 party system. The process of this negates the needs for ANY political parties, as it marginalizes the need for politicians.

The premise in this thread isn't merely the 2 party system, nor did the thread title allude to anything like this new title.

C'mon now.

I couldn't find an edit button to even change the post.
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tritonman
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« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010, 04:15:23 PM »

I actually wanted to reword it a bit differently, but this new title is nowhere near my wording. I couldn't find an edit button to even change the post.

C'mon now.
just type whatever you like into the title bar when you reply to me. Wink
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010, 05:19:15 PM »

This is what I wanted to change it to:

Upgrade the Constitution: no more politicians or parties via Consensual Taxation

Thanks!
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Dig
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 09:46:09 PM »

This is what I wanted to change it to:

Upgrade the Constitution: no more politicians or parties via Consensual Taxation

Thanks!

sorry, we ain't into changing or "upgrading" the constitution. feel free to go somewhere else pushing that insane idea. a con con is the last step the CFR/Bilderberg's need to justify their wholesale crimes against humanity.
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 10:07:00 PM »

Oh, ok, we'll just keep using an 18th Century document in the 21st Century, while we're already talking about 'reformatting' the system. That makes a lot of sense. History has proven that that version of the document gave rise to today's nightmare, despite its good intentions 234 years ago.

Oh, and we'll just keep being followers, following the shepherds, right? Elect corruptible and black mail exploitable humans and send them down into the belly of the beast to 'represent' us? Create a situation where special interest groups can go directly to these pawns? Just keep re-empowering the aristocracy over and over again? Keep talking about a constitution solution, an old idea, that isn't effectively rallying a disenfranchised and bewildered masses? I've got news for you: The original rebels had better rifles than the Red Coats did. And they were on their own land. We don't have those equalizers. We need a vast majority to be able to make the establishment stand down and give us our way, and they know it.

So do you alone speak for everyone, as your words suggest? Is that why the thread title was changed and the mods are ignoring me about fixing it: To marginalize fresh ideas as if its just another everyday 'get rid of the 2 party system' rant? Is that how we do things around here? I guess that beats getting banned for disagreeing, like with the Zeitgeist people, but then again I haven't gone all out dissenter against Alex, nor would I have reason to, to find out if that's how things are done here.

But that is all besides the point.

I appreciate that you commented, but what I'm really hoping for is an actual refutation against some of my specific talking points. A blanket sweeping dismissal, tied with a "Get outta my country if you don't like it" type response I'd expect out of the Rush Limbaugh forums.
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phosphene
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 10:25:30 PM »

What are ya gonna replace "society" with?

All you have suggested is to tear everything down.

I was once asked why I don't participate in anti-war demonstrations. I said that I will never do that, but as soon as you have a pro-peace rally, I'll be there.
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 10:31:26 PM »

2-party???...ain't seen that since '62
smoke and mirrors i keeps a sayin' Wink
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donnay
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 10:34:18 PM »

Oh, ok, we'll just keep using an 18th Century document in the 21st Century, while we're already talking about 'reformatting' the system. That makes a lot of sense. History has proven that that version of the document gave rise to today's nightmare, despite its good intentions 234 years ago.

Oh, and we'll just keep being followers, following the shepherds, right? Elect corruptible and black mail exploitable humans and send them down into the belly of the beast to 'represent' us? Create a situation where special interest groups can go directly to these pawns? Just keep re-empowering the aristocracy over and over again? Keep talking about a constitution solution, an old idea, that isn't effectively rallying a disenfranchised and bewildered masses? I've got news for you: The original rebels had better rifles than the Red Coats did. And they were on their own land. We don't have those equalizers. We need a vast majority to be able to make the establishment stand down and give us our way, and they know it.

So do you alone speak for everyone, as your words suggest? Is that why the thread title was changed and the mods are ignoring me about fixing it: To marginalize fresh ideas as if its just another everyday 'get rid of the 2 party system' rant? Is that how we do things around here? I guess that beats getting banned for disagreeing, like with the Zeitgeist people, but then again I haven't gone all out dissenter against Alex, nor would I have reason to, to find out if that's how things are done here.

But that is all besides the point.

I appreciate that you commented, but what I'm really hoping for is an actual refutation against some of my specific talking points. A blanket sweeping dismissal, tied with a "Get outta my country if you don't like it" type response I'd expect out of the Rush Limbaugh forums.


The Constitution was not written for a Democracy.  Most of the founders literally loathed democracy.  That being said, the two party system is corrupt and it is only the appearance of voting--you have no say so anymore with the electronic ballets and our illegitimate government.  So once you wrap your mind around that, then and only then can you see it is not only a two party system we need be rid of, it is all of the corruption within government!
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 10:45:37 PM »

The Constitution was not written for a Democracy.  Most of the founders literally loathed democracy.  That being said, the two party system is corrupt and it is only the appearance of voting--you have no say so anymore with the electronic ballets and our illegitimate government.  So once you wrap your mind around that, then and only then can you see it is not only a two party system we need be rid of, it is all of the corruption within government!

Everyone please note the "Get rid of the 2 party system" thread title wasn't my words. The mods changed it on me, and wont change it to what I want it to be or explain why. I even started a thread in the Questions forum, and they deleted it in minutes.

Anyways... In the OP I have a section talking about direct democracy. The idea of a democracy is that it's "mob rule". The mob rips you out of your house and hangs you. No trial, no due process, no law.

What makes a republic different is the Rule of Law. I propose having both. And of course the founders were against the masses. Most people couldn't read, if I'm not mistaken. And most of them were secret society aristocrats, especially Ben Franklin.

Now if you want to talk about having testing, to vote, on issues like history, and so on, fine. We can go there.

The biggest flaw I see in the electronic voting process is having party officials counting the votes, and determining who even has a shot at being noticed. These are problem inherent in having political parties. We don't vote for who does that. We don't vote for the Electoral College. We don't vote for the Supreme Court. Can anyone here tell me who the Electoral College people in their state even are?
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2010, 10:50:49 PM »

What are ya gonna replace "society" with?

All you have suggested is to tear everything down.

I'm not talking about replacing society. I'm talking about empowering for perhaps the first time.

Tear down the system that enslaves us: yes. The system that if rebooted will still lead to corruption, extortion, black mail, theft, profiteering, fearmonger agenda pushing, behind the scenes shadiness, aristocracy elitism, and so on. In todays world, it will be back sooner than later.

Politicians who can't be fired, only 'voted out'. That's a problem. Politicians who can vote themselves raises, because we're completely out of the loop. That's what I'm talking about.
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phosphene
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 10:52:11 PM »

Anyways... In the OP I have a section talking about direct democracy.

What makes a republic different is the Rule of Law. I propose having both.
So we should tear down the democratic republic we have now...and replace it with a democratic republic? Tongue
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2010, 11:03:50 PM »

So we should tear down the democratic republic we have now...and replace it with a democratic republic? Tongue

I really get the feeling you didn't fully read the OP...
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2010, 01:41:26 PM »

Quote
Correction: it is Nalco genocidal chemtrailing, the oil gusher is actually a mud volcano. The whole purpose of this is to allow the chemtrails to cause a genocide of life in the gulf and surrounding coasts.

Interesting theory. Spoken in absolutes, that must be the case.

Quote
Billions were not awake, especially not in Western countries. The approval for Irawq at the time of bombings was over 85% in the US alone. The approval for Iran is less than 20%. The plas to commit wholesale genocide in Iran are not put off indefinitely, but they have been put off ofr over 4 years. That is an achievement and the more people see how they plan on going in without anything, not even a lie wkes more and more people up. So if progress continues then they will be put off indefinitely.

Hmm...

Quote
"Poll results available from Gallup International, as well as local sources for most of Europe, West and East, showed that support for a war carried out "unilaterally by America and its allies" did not rise above 11 percent in any country. Support for a war if mandated by the UN ranged from 13 percent (Spain) to 51 percent (Netherlands)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_Iraq_War
 Nearly six in 10 said they were ready for such an invasion "in the next week or two." But that support dropped off if the U.N. backing was not first obtained. If the U.N. Security Council were to reject a resolution paving the way for military action, 54% of Americans favored a U.S. invasion. And if the Bush administration didn't not seek a final Security Council vote, support for a war dropped to 47%.[9] An ABC News/Washington Post poll taken after the beginning of the war showed a 62% support for the war, lower than the 79% in favor at the beginning of the Persian Gulf War.[2]

I don't know where you get your numbers from... but the point is everyone was tricked over WMD's. The propaganda machine is doing a plenty good job stating that case against Iran, and you'll find nearly identical numbers here:
http://www.pollingreport.com/iran.htm

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I do not need republicans to do shit, the country is waking up to Hitler's genocideal healthcare plans being implemented in the US.

http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm

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The GOP can choose to eradicate this Hitlerian (Harriman/Carnegie/Rockefeller) plan on their own or realize that the American people ain't going to stand for it. It is their choice, the American people and the constitution have already spoken and are clear.

I often try to think of bad legislation that gets undone, and I always come up short. If you have a fancy list you know about that would be cool.

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The GOP can use the opportunity for more "perks" but they are just waking up more citizens when they do that. It is their choice to be on the right side of history,

Since when are they?

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The system is not flawed, the enforcement is flawed. All we need is the constitution and RICO and all these guys go directly to jail. The solicitor general is involved. ANy state can start fraud investigations. All of them can.

Yes it is, because humans are flawed, especially when you give them power and prestige.

Seriously, this is all way off topic here. It would be much better suited in my 'upgrade the Constitution thread. If you can move it there that would be great.

Quote
Sounds like boogie boogie boogie to me, but whatever. Just watch the movie EndGame, it is all there. They mean to exterminate over 90% of the humans, that is their plan. They also plan on a scientific technocracy for the 99.999% of the humans allowed to live. These people will be controlled by a finite group of scientists and bankers...less than 10,000. The whole world is waking up to this.

That is part of their plan. It doesn't answer why, but the rest of the story does. Check out my website. It's all in there.

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She will get in, that is the point. If such an obvious enemy of the constitution sits on the highest court then that allows the american people to see that the SCOTUS is just another occupied piece of AMerica and needs to be grand jury investigated. This is what they have been hiding for decades. They have been hiding the fact that the SCOTUS is controlled. Now everyone can see it becauseof her soon to be announced confirmation.

Who? This is assuming that the masses 'get it'. Party people either support her, or don't, based on party. THis is the flaw of having parties: Blind loyalty to the SOCIAL GROUP. This is a major reason why I say parties and politicians need to be marginalized dramatically.

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Carbon based monetary system was the primary plan, it was not a contingency. This was going to force a no child policy and the rise of the organ replacement necessity to keep people alive. That is the eventual system they want. But the carbon FUBAR is a monkey wrench to their plans.

The plan is to plunder us, and reduce our lifespans and populations. There's more than one way to skin a human. Carbon would be one way. Another is just plunder them if you have to. Let them kill each other off. The masses are already and still are divided and conquered.

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They are moving for the first time in over 50 years. Soo we will need to get out of their way Wink

They are? How many of them? How many of them get even half the picture, half of what's beyond the  left-right tunnel vision?

We don't have the strategic equalizers the colonialists had. The NWO knows it. They know we cant peacefully takeover without the overwhelming majority. According to the Constitution we can't without 2/3. Without more than 2/3 it WILL be war or enslavement. War can still lead to the same, or worse. If you think the Tea Party will go on to embody 85% of the population, in direct physical motivation, one can dream.
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Dig
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 02:23:02 PM »

You sound like you do not like the constitutional republic to me. If so, then you would like the NWO philosophy.

Here is what happens...the NWO comes in and tries to convince people that their system is flawed by corrupting different people within the system. They are the ones demanding a revolution, we are saying that this is total horseshit and are exposing these occupiers.
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 03:01:41 PM »

I don't like being led. That's what happens when you have celebrity leaders. Even during the Ron Paul campaign I observed Cult of Personality fervorism.Yes, we NEED him in there, but that doesn't mean any criticism of any his policies should be shouted down like Bush or Obama supporters would do.

I don't like the potential for corruption. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the machine is corrupted and corruptible is the problem. There would end up being some other 'NWO' elitists if the ones at the tippy top were all 'ousted' decades ago.  

I don't like the Iron Law of Oligarchy. I hope you read my OP.

I don't like the potential for Nazi social engineering and propaganda that is inherent in political parties. As soon as libertarian philosophy becomes a political party the members are now a group, not individuals.

If a president etc is an abysmal failure, I don't like being stuck with them until their term ends. The democrats didn't even impeach Bush.

I don't like the masses being so disconnected from the whole thing. The less people are involved, the less they'll be interested. The less they feel like their time and thoughts matter, the less they'll spend thinking about it.

I don't like special interests groups. I can handle if if they runs ads trying to convince me to support their cause. Most of all: I don't like them being able to go over my head.

I don't like other people deciding where my money goes. I don't even like other people having to pay into things they don't support. That is the essence of 'representative government' aka constitutional republic (the one you're talking about).

I don't like backwardsness. "Stay the course", said Bush a few years ago, about a failed Iraq War policy.

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agentbluescreen
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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2010, 03:20:54 PM »

2-party???...ain't seen that since '62
smoke and mirrors i keeps a sayin' Wink


Indeed the DeMOBlican/RepublicRAT Zionist-Socialist /Tory-Episcopalist Corporate-Fascist Party is just a "6 of one half dozen of the other" 12 Pack. It's the same SINGLE, SOLITARY, ONE CIA/Pentagon Mafia Brewery Inc. operation...
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2010, 03:49:45 PM »

Indeed the DeMOBlican/RepublicRAT Zionist-Socialist /Tory-Episcopalist Corporate-Fascist Party is just a "6 of one half dozen of the other" 12 Pack. It's the same SINGLE, SOLITARY, ONE CIA/Pentagon Mafia Brewery Inc. operation...

It's too bad the mods changed the thread title. I can tell you didn't really read the OP, assuming it was just another anti-2 party system rant. It's much more than that. I hope you'll take the time thanks.
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Rebelitarian
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2010, 05:24:30 PM »

Check out the Constitution Party

http://www.believeinamerica.com/index.php
http://www.constitutionparty.org
 


Constitution Party Promotional Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_SobkISNrY
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agentbluescreen
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2010, 05:35:16 PM »

The problem with your direct democracy concept is that it is not Representative Publicanism (republican) at all.

The failure of the original "direct" Achean Democratic system was that it too was merely demonstrative, -only those who bothered to attend (with vested interests in whatever was on the agenda) got to vote. Thus those who didn't, by failing to be vigilant, always got shafted. Any established one party system is likewise no different than Marxism...

The OS badly needs an upgrade but the heart and soul of the system is the enthroned and anointed paper monarch - the Constitution, elected representatives (without party corruption) are necessary to assure constant full participation, rather than mere "mob" demonstrations.

Best we must outlaw parties and elect Supreme Court judges and Attorney Generals (like every other judge and prosecutor). They are the real defenders and protectors of Our Anointed Constitution. These corrupted SCOTUS and AG-minion PARTY HACKS are the root of all the problems in this country.

The presidency has become a corporate CIA/Pentagon Mafia godfather
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Rebelitarian
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« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2010, 05:55:18 PM »

The problem is equal air time and the corporate/Federal-Reserve sponsorship of the 2 Bilderberg Parties.
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2010, 06:46:10 PM »

The problem with your direct democracy concept is that it is not Representative Publicanism (republican) at all.

I'm to to point that I see a small group of 'elected' humans at the helm as the root problem. With such a system there will never be a shortage of crooks to use it to their advantage. By the very design: it inevitably facilitates the Iron Law of Oligarchy. Solving this challenge is a key objective, and marginalizing the role of 'politicians' as much as possible is the best way I can see to do that. I'm open to suggestions.

The Direct Democracy isn't my primary objective, nor is it anywhere near being my idea.

The Consensual Taxation concept is the Primary Objective. It's the best thing I've ever heard or thought of for stopping the funding of things we don't agree with. Direct Democracy, deeply limited by the Rule of Law, would be very supplementary. It would be the end of the power of politicians. A lot of corruption would have to be cleaned up to even get that far. Cutting off their money and ability to expand government faster than national growth is a desperate necessity in my view.

A few posts up I trimmed down my list of flaws of 'representative' government, in case you missed it.

Quote
The failure of the original "direct" Achean Democratic system was that it too was merely demonstrative, -only those who bothered to attend (with vested interests in whatever was on the agenda) got to vote. Thus those who didn't, by failing to be vigilant, always got shafted.

That's history. This is the 'electronic' 21st Century. But for it to work there are challenges to be overcome first. In particular, party official loyalists being in charge of counting votes. I recall the Rep's & Dem's colluding to note count his votes at various levels, basically every level.

Quote
Any established one party system is likewise no different than Marxism...

Oh, I am aware. My arch-nemesis is the Zeitgeist crowd. They advocate a monolithic one size fits all approach (controlled by AI machines) to the entire planet.

I advocate no political parties: only philosophies. Whatever someones philosophies are, whatever. We're no longer individuals when we join a group, not even libertarian types, and then group loyalty takes hold. If they want to fund socialist programs, via 'tax' donations, let them. I know I wont. They can go and have their own cities as far as I'm concerned, as long as it isn't shoved down my throat. And the advantage to this approach means vastly more people might agree that otherwise wouldn't.

Marxism pushes centralism, especially Zeitgeist. At the top of the list of the Rule of Law should be clearly stated measures to deter centralization. Leave nothing open to interpretation.

Quote
The OS badly needs an upgrade but the heart and soul of the system is the enthroned and anointed paper monarch - the Constitution, elected representatives (without party corruption) are necessary to assure constant full participation, rather than mere "mob" demonstrations.

Nice words: "paper monarch"! Really.

The problem is political parties. Inherently, following the Iron Law of Oligarchy, they will turn loyalist, corrupt. Dealing with this problem is what has most put me at odds with the ideas I was on the same page with you on until more recently.

Quote
Best we must outlaw parties and elect Supreme Court judges and Attorney Generals (like every other judge and prosecutor). They are the real defenders and protectors of Our Anointed Constitution. These corrupted SCOTUS and AG-minion PARTY HACKS are the root of all the problems in this country.

Alright! I concur.
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Rebelitarian
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« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2010, 07:02:42 PM »

Support the Constitution Party or see the end of America.
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IgnoranceIsntBliss
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2010, 10:17:06 AM »

Support the Constitution Party or see the end of America.

That's to imply they're our only hope, which means they alone have to save us, which means the majority of the public have to get behind them.

That doesn't mean to not support them, it just means don't put all of your eggs in one basket unless it has the real chance of massive unification.
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Geolibertarian
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9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB! www.ae911truth.org


« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2010, 09:00:28 AM »

Support the Constitution Party or see the end of America.

I've been telling people for years to either vote for their 3rd party or independent candidate of choice or not vote at all, but with our so-called "election" system being as rigged as it is in favor of the two corporate-owned major parties, that alone is far from enough.

Anyone wishing to save America should start by having everyone he or she knows read the following:

       http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=162212.0
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"Abolish all taxation save that upon land values." -- Henry George

"If our nation can issue a dollar bond, it can issue a dollar bill." -- Thomas Edison

http://webofdebt.com
http://schalkenbach.org
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=203330.0
H0llyw00d
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2010, 09:15:05 AM »

I've been telling people for years to either vote for their 3rd party or independent candidate of choice or not vote at all, but with our so-called "election" system being as rigged as it is in favor of the two corporate-owned major parties, that alone is far from enough.

Been my belief for years!!!
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