Austrian School monetary theory

[citizenx]

So, you basically admit that converting to the gold standard would have the immediate effect of further contracting the economy?

Do you think it has a snowball's chance in hell of being adopted by the politicians then -- even if it should?

Returning to the gold standard is definitely out there in left field right now.

At least at the present moment, I don't think we need any more "contraction".

Good luck with all that.

[planning4acrash]

So, you basically admit that converting to the gold standard would have the immediate effect of further contracting the economy?

Do you think it has a snowball's chance in hell of being adopted by the politicians then -- even if it should?

Returning to the gold standard is definitely out there in left field right now.

At least at the present moment, I don't think we need any more "contraction".

Good luck with all that.

A gold standard would contract the government sector and, the corporate sector, the wal marts, et al that expand off inflation.

The resultant deflation would expand the grass roots economy and boost the value of we the people's savings, income and capital, leading to a boom in mom and pop shops, family farms, etc.

The same would occur, whether you cancelled legal tender laws or whether you instated a gold standard.

[citizenx]

I do not necessarily agree that going over to a gold standard would lead to deflation.  It could in fact lead to an inflationary or hyperinfaltionary scenario if youa re talking about 100% gold backed currency.  (What would be the point of another kind of fractional reserve system?)

As for helping out mom an pops as you say, I am even more skeptical about that.

Again, I think in terms of deregulating currency laws, we are on the same track.  It is probably the best plan, and that is why I think RP has gone over in the direction of this kind of reform.

One thing is for sure:  the first thing we need to do is to audit the Fed and audit the gold.

I hope we agree on that, too.

[planning4acrash]

Well, whether you agree or not, a gold standard always produces deflation in prices, this is economic FACT, because goods and services will expand without a corresponding expansion in the money supply, meaning that prices fall AND, during the re-adjustment, where the vampiric government and corporate sector contract (through lack of fiat credit), there would be mass deflation, for example, mortgages would completely dry up for a while and go back to maybe 1.5 to 2 times earnings.

You really need to do some study about inflation rather than just parrot fiat money propaganda. It is very frustrating debating folk who state, baselessly that something is so, with total confidence, lacking any backup. This is just wishful thinking and desires do not make reality. Economics 101 show that the gold standard IS deflation. That is why government and corporations hate it, because they feed off inflation, aka theft from me and you. The contraction that would come is from the vampiric sector, aka walmart and washington.

I recommend the following MP3's to learn about Libertarian economics:

Peter Schiff: "Why Was Anyone Surprised By the Crash?": http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/index.php?p=episode&name=2009-03-15_104_why_was_anyone_surprised_by_the_crash.mp3

Lew Rockwell interviews Jorg Guido Hillisman: "The Austrian theory of the Business Cycle": http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-08-11_017_austrian_theory_of_the_business_cycle.mp3

What You Should Know About Inflation by Henry Hazlitt (1964): "What you should know about inflation": http://mises.org/daily/2914

Jorg Guido Hullisman "The Cultural and Spiritual Legacy of Fiat Inflation": http://mises.org/media/3200

[citizenx]

The only way it could work without casuing immediate inflation (or deflation) would be a fractional reserve type system where gold only backed up 1/60th of the dollar right now.

That is not propaganda.

That is just common sense.

[planning4acrash]

The only way it could work without casuing immediate inflation (or deflation) would be a fractional reserve type system where gold only backed up 1/60th of the dollar right now.

This is not common sense, it is fraud that merely avoids the true price of gold. The true way of doing it, impossible without force via legal tender laws, is to revalue gold upwards by 60 fold. However, the upper price of gold in this scenario would be lower if any debt and derivatives based on fraud are outlawed, shredded and thrown out the window, because they are what have contributed the most part to the inflation.

You have another option, currency destruction, which will be used to bring in a new world order one world currency. So, by fearing justice, by avoiding the adjustment, by demanding fraud to make life easier, you will walk into evil and a new world order. You ask, you get.

But remember this, Thou Shalt Not Steal, and avoiding the true price of gold is theft from those who hold true assets, and maintenance of a fiat system is theft from those who hold and are paid in fiat money.

You ask for theft, you get it, but society becomes rotten and so do you.

[planning4acrash]

The only way it could work without casuing immediate inflation (or deflation) would be a fractional reserve type system where gold only backed up 1/60th of the dollar right now.

This is not common sense, it is fraud that merely avoids the true price of gold, and it can only be done via force, using legal tender laws, and force, except in defence, is always immoral. The true way of doing it, which the free market would do, absent legal tender laws, is to revalue gold upwards by 60 fold.

However, the upper price of gold in this scenario would be lower if any debt and derivatives based on fraud are outlawed, shredded and thrown out the window, because they are what have contributed the most part to the inflation.

You have another option, currency destruction, which will be used to bring in a new world order one world currency. So, by fearing justice, by avoiding the adjustment, by demanding fraud to make life easier, you will walk into evil and a new world order. You ask, you get.

But remember this, "Thou Shalt Not Steal", and avoiding the true price of gold is theft from those who hold true assets, and maintenance of a fiat system is theft from those who hold and are paid in fiat money.

You ask for theft, you get it, but society becomes rotten and so do you.

[lord edward coke]

The note (FRN)is backed by "Full Faith and Credit" in other words the acceptor's faith and the offerers promise. Real Estate is backed by Title Insurance not the Title itself. A certificate of Title or Warranty Deed (insurance) is the result of a Real Estate purchase, not the land itself. (Not an actual TITLE, but a CERTIFICATE of Title    )

What you "purchase" is legal title to real estate.

"Legal Title
Ownership of property that is cognizable or enforceable in a court of law, or one that is complete and perfect in terms of the apparent right of ownership and possession, but that, unlike equitable title, carries no beneficial interest in the property."

That beneficial interest is held by the State. It is, in part, the right to the increase found in improvement of the land. This benefit of increase is taken by the State in the form of "property tax" and the lien of bonding as well as the "right" of imminent domain.

This beneficial interest can be taken on future increase. This is the "Credit" part of the fiat equation. Bonding quite often exceeds the "value" of the "real estate" itself and binds the legal title holder to the promise of future, and past, payments on that bond. Property taxes are bound only by the entire value of the Real Estate. Your right to the legal portion of the title depends entirely on your willingness and ability to pay the beneficial owner. Just try not paying your property tax and you will see your legal title sold to the first party willing to satisfy the beneficial title holder. If the bonds (municipal, school, improvement, fire, sewer etc.) are not paid it is your legal title interest that will suffer.

Welcome to your tenement. I think you can see now that legal title is only a tenement at the sufferance of the beneficial title holder.

Now the question begs an answer:
What is the tangible "piece of land" that note is backed by?

A child can understand- http://www.takelifeback.com/hegawid/

[lord edward coke]

This is not common sense, it is fraud that merely avoids the true price of gold. The true way of doing it, impossible without force via legal tender laws, is to revalue gold upwards by 60 fold. However, the upper price of gold in this scenario would be lower if any debt and derivatives based on fraud are outlawed, shredded and thrown out the window, because they are what have contributed the most part to the inflation.

You have another option, currency destruction, which will be used to bring in a new world order one world currency. So, by fearing justice, by avoiding the adjustment, by demanding fraud to make life easier, you will walk into evil and a new world order. You ask, you get.

But remember this, Thou Shalt Not Steal, and avoiding the true price of gold is theft from those who hold true assets, and maintenance of a fiat system is theft from those who hold and are paid in fiat money.

You ask for theft, you get it, but society becomes rotten and so do you.

I Love this post and can see why you duplicated it ;as it deserves repeating.  Notice how other solutions call on big brother to have even more power to enslave the plebs. THIS is not the answer and those who promote should look from the big brother perspective and flee.
Only way to depreciate gold and silver is to increase the supply of it. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. The currency is what is devalued.

When the US confiscated gold in 1933, every ounce was valued at $20. A day later, a gold ounce pegged at $20 was re-pregged at $35. The 20 FRN was nearly devalued 50% in purchasing power.

What changed?
Was it the weight of the gold?
Was it the quality of the gold?

It wasn't the gold that was devalued, it was the banknote titled Federal Reserve Note that was devalued in purchasing power.

Inflation in the US has been occurring since 1933. $1 today is worth 2 cents in 1913. That last 2 cents is what is being slated for destruction.

Inflation is cheaper to government than raising taxes along with much less fanfare.

[EvadingGrid]

I Love this post and can see why you duplicated it ;as it deserves repeating.   Notice how other solutions call on big brother to have even more power to enslave the plebs. THIS is not the answer and those who promote should look from the big brother perspective and flee.
Only way to depreciate gold and silver is to increase the supply of it. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. The currency is what is devalued.

When the US confiscated gold in 1933, every ounce was valued at $20. A day later, a gold ounce pegged at $20 was re-pregged at $35. The 20 FRN was nearly devalued 50% in purchasing power.

What changed?
Was it the weight of the gold?
Was it the quality of the gold?

It wasn't the gold that was devalued, it was the banknote titled Federal Reserve Note that was devalued in purchasing power.

Inflation in the US has been occurring since 1933. $1 today is worth 2 cents in 1913. That last 2 cents is what is being slated for destruction.

Inflation is cheaper to government than raising taxes along with much less fanfare.

While I mostly agree about inflation....

Gold is not the answer, nor is giving power to un-elected private institutions... Debt Free Money is the answer, created by institutions held accountable to We The People.


Beware of Rothschild Economic theories dressed up as solutions.

[planning4acrash]

Gold is not the answer, nor is giving power to un-elected private institutions... Debt Free Money is the answer, created by institutions held accountable to We The People.

Good gracious, since when did institutions ever stand up for We The People. Daily corporate lobbying is always mightier than a once every four year vote, so do not forget that. And doesn't the current situation prove to you that government, given the liberty to print money, be it debt free or debt laden, that they will do so with impunity to expand government? History shows this to be the case.

Infact, the reason government handed over money production to private central banks, was because the public lost faith in government prudence in money production. This is why the partnership was made.

And nobody said gold is the answer. Real things are the answer, and gold is a real thing. It is one of the answers. This general bashing of gold shows that you do not understand the reasons why people seek gold. They seek it primarily because it has the combination of being scarce AND, because it has little to no industrial value, thus, when the economy goes down, demand for gold does not fall. Gold is the only precious metal that is hardly affected by the ups and downs of the industrial economy.

Sure, you can hold debt free paper money, but can you trust a corporation or government who has the power to print it from thin air? Great in theory, terrible in practice, because of human nature. Greedy individuals, unrestrained by reality, go wild. Particularly given the power to print money backed by nothing but the blood sweat and tears of the people. Remember, that the types of people motivated to get to the top of banking and government tend to be psychopaths. And you wish to give them this power? You must be mad!

And yes, you can hold money backed by wheat, but what if the harvest fails, and wheat goes rancid after 10yrs. You can hold it in copper, but ask any economist, copper prices plummet during times of recession, yet the role of money is to retain its value during boom or recession. Gold does that. Near on 90% of the gold ever mined still exists in vaults, as money, no other commodity compares as a monetary commodity.

BUT, under free market conditions, if we treat money like any other commodity, to be provided, competitively, by private corporations, SUBJECT TO THE RULE OF LAW, (no counterfeiting, etc.) - Try telling that to the Fed!!, Then, at this stage, we will discover a broad choice of coinage and monies. No doubt, gold will be a major component, but we will see people put maybe 10% of their money into wheat, 20% into silver, maybe copper is used for tokens and small change, and maybe some notes are debt free money issued as bonds from corporations and government.

But the main reason to not go for debt free government money, is that this money is inferior to free market money, due to the risk of government hitting the printing press to fund war and socialism, combined with the government by-passing the rule of law. Try taking the Fed to court for devaluing the currency, it won't happen!!

Thus, and here is the main moral reason, because government money is inferior, as a result of the aforementioned moral hazard, its usage and value rely on force, on legal tender laws that force people to accept that money and use it. Without such laws, people would not use it, and the key concept people should understand about Libertarianism, is that no action by government, or anybody else, is moral, or right, if it relies on or involves force, and government money, relying on legal tender laws, involves force. It involves forcing people to not contract using free market monies that may or may not be superior to that issued by government.

Right now, the US, through the Fed, has a similar position. Congress forces the public to use debt money issued by a monopoly corporate provider, the Fed, but it only does this because when it tried doing its own money, the Continental Dollar, it abused that privilege and caused hyperinflation!! So go figure, and please, stop this inane, BANAL bashing of gold. Its been currency for thousands of years, and will continue to be, GET USED TO IT.

[worcesteradam]

problem is the people dont stand up for themselves

[planning4acrash]

problem is the people dont stand up for themselves

No, the problem is, that people do not understand reality and economics, do not understand freedom and do not understand morality or human nature, so they get sold a hunk of faulty goods from "their" government. People are standing up for themselves, but they are working from a false perception of who they are and a false perception of the world they live in.

[worcesteradam]

a lot of people know their politicians lie to them

time to stand up and say no or get raped

[planning4acrash]

a lot of people know their politicians lie to them

Its one thing knowing you've been lied to. Its quite another recognising what the question was in the first place, and being able to recognise what the heck reality really is. Sure, I know I've been lied to, but do I know the truth? Or will I take half truths and spend the time chasing my tail?

[EvadingGrid]

I've seen enough strawman args on this thread to thatch a entire medieval city. 

[worcesteradam]

if we all just go up to our respective parliaments, drag the politicians out, suitably punish some of them in order to convince the others of who is really in charge, we dont need to know the issues, its the politicians job to know the issues, as long as they are made to work for our interests and not lie to us, things will work better.

[citizenx]

Beware of Rothschild Economic theories dressed up as solutions.

+1

The Rothschilds and the other banksters -- mostly Europe-based at the time used the 29' crash (engineered) in the U.S. to buy up all the gold again and furthered their control over the banking system and the U.S. economy until at least WWII.

They use fiat money and gold to achieve their aims at times.

The only thing they can't control are greenbacks -- paper money created debt-free by the government.  That is exactly why we lost two of our greatest leaders in all likelihood:  Abraham Lincoln and John Kennedy (I am almost 100% sure of that in the case of the latter.)

It will take some equally brave men or women to stand up to these bastards again, but it can be done. This time our break needs to be final.

No more debt money and no more yellow brick road.

[Freeski]

Good gracious, since when did institutions ever stand up for We The People. Daily corporate lobbying is always mightier than a once every four year vote, so do not forget that. And doesn't the current situation prove to you that government, given the liberty to print money, be it debt free or debt laden, that they will do so with impunity to expand government? History shows this to be the case.

Infact, the reason government handed over money production to private central banks, was because the public lost faith in government prudence in money production. This is why the partnership was made.

And nobody said gold is the answer. Real things are the answer, and gold is a real thing. It is one of the answers. This general bashing of gold shows that you do not understand the reasons why people seek gold. They seek it primarily because it has the combination of being scarce AND, because it has little to no industrial value, thus, when the economy goes down, demand for gold does not fall. Gold is the only precious metal that is hardly affected by the ups and downs of the industrial economy.

Sure, you can hold debt free paper money, but can you trust a corporation or government who has the power to print it from thin air? Great in theory, terrible in practice, because of human nature. Greedy individuals, unrestrained by reality, go wild. Particularly given the power to print money backed by nothing but the blood sweat and tears of the people. Remember, that the types of people motivated to get to the top of banking and government tend to be psychopaths. And you wish to give them this power? You must be mad!

And yes, you can hold money backed by wheat, but what if the harvest fails, and wheat goes rancid after 10yrs. You can hold it in copper, but ask any economist, copper prices plummet during times of recession, yet the role of money is to retain its value during boom or recession. Gold does that. Near on 90% of the gold ever mined still exists in vaults, as money, no other commodity compares as a monetary commodity.

BUT, under free market conditions, if we treat money like any other commodity, to be provided, competitively, by private corporations, SUBJECT TO THE RULE OF LAW, (no counterfeiting, etc.) - Try telling that to the Fed!!, Then, at this stage, we will discover a broad choice of coinage and monies. No doubt, gold will be a major component, but we will see people put maybe 10% of their money into wheat, 20% into silver, maybe copper is used for tokens and small change, and maybe some notes are debt free money issued as bonds from corporations and government.

But the main reason to not go for debt free government money, is that this money is inferior to free market money, due to the risk of government hitting the printing press to fund war and socialism, combined with the government by-passing the rule of law. Try taking the Fed to court for devaluing the currency, it won't happen!!

Thus, and here is the main moral reason, because government money is inferior, as a result of the aforementioned moral hazard, its usage and value rely on force, on legal tender laws that force people to accept that money and use it. Without such laws, people would not use it, and the key concept people should understand about Libertarianism, is that no action by government, or anybody else, is moral, or right, if it relies on or involves force, and government money, relying on legal tender laws, involves force. It involves forcing people to not contract using free market monies that may or may not be superior to that issued by government.

Right now, the US, through the Fed, has a similar position. Congress forces the public to use debt money issued by a monopoly corporate provider, the Fed, but it only does this because when it tried doing its own money, the Continental Dollar, it abused that privilege and caused hyperinflation!! So go figure, and please, stop this inane, BANAL bashing of gold. Its been currency for thousands of years, and will continue to be, GET USED TO IT.

Excellent post.

PS - "in fact" is two words.

[birther truther tenther]

The reason why I hate the "gold standard" is because gold is the currency of the elite.  

Has anybody told you about the golden rule?       Those who own the gold... rule.

The elite own METRIC TONS of the stuff.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6932NR20101004

The Austrian School cult members will still be serfs under the gold standard.  Their little tube of 20 one-ounce gold coins doesn't touch the Rothschilds' tonnes worth.  

North, Rockwell, and the rest of the gold cult refer to a public fiat system as Pelosi-dollars, but the last time I checked, Pelosi doesn't run the Bank of North Dakota.

Read this slop put out by North/Rockwell
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north878.html

These people call for "sovereign money." Whenever you hear "sovereign money," think "Nancy Pelosi dollars, Barney Frank dollars, and Obama dollars."

Let the free market choose the monetary unit. Let depositors determine which banks survive and which banks perish. In short, get government out of the money business.

Let the free market aka Wal-Mart, GE, Monsanto, Blackwater, ITRR, ExxonMobil, Haliburton, BP choose the monetary unit!  Get the government out of the money business??? even though the power "To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof", IS A GOVT FUNCTION under the US CONSTITUTION!

I gave up on LewRockwell because I only agree with 5 out of the 10 articles he posts each day, and that makes him equal to Fox news or the Huffington Post.  He demonizes whole wheat bread, talks about how great 1930s fashions are, defends BP during the oil spill, glamorizes/romanticizes smoking when Big Tobacco should be an enemy to anybody who halfass cares about their health, and demonizes locals who don't want a Wal-mart in their neighborhood because those protesters "get in the way of free-market".

Their idol is von Mises who got all of his funding from the Rockefeller Foundation ON RECORD!  you can't make this $h1t up!

Think of the gold standard as a back-up plan in case the NWO cashless enslavement grid fails.

Now, I might come across as a hypocrite, so be it, but I do support some Libertarian leaning candidates because of their anti-NWO stance, but if the NWO were to be defeated, I would stop supporting those type of people.

I'm afraid with the TEA Parties being fully co-opted and the neocons being exposed, the enemy of the 2020's decade will be the Big-L Libertarians who want to sell all of your roads to toll companies, sell off your wilderness areas for outdoor recreation to developers, whore out all government functions to private unaccountable mega corporations, and let mega monopolies run everything and there is no local/state government to protect you from their wrath!  The Big-L's are going to recreate the robber baron system which caused the Rockefellers, harrimans, Carnegies, Fords, etc to be as powerful as they are.

[planning4acrash]

The reason why I hate the "gold standard" is because gold is the currency of the elite.  

No, you knob jockey, gold is only the currency of the elite, because they preserve their survival instinct and keep what is real, substituting money for us with worthless paper, controlled by them.

THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION requires coinage in gold and silver to ensure that WE THE PEOPLE are the elite, that we get the gold, but that was taken away in the corporatist revolution that was the 16th amendment and the Ferral Reserve Act.

Look its simple, the elite take things that are real, and steal them from us. Like, water is real, the elite go for water, don't have water, because it is the elite, what freaking nonsense. GO BACK TO SCHOOL. Either you grab it, or they will. Claim your liberties or they will take it from you.

Or lie down and take a shafting.

[worcesteradam]

but if you make it now that gold is currency, its value will surely go up.
those who own that gold will benefit

[birther truther tenther]

No, you knob jockey, gold is only the currency of the elite, because they preserve their survival instinct and keep what is real, substituting money for us with worthless paper, controlled by them.

THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION requires coinage in gold and silver to ensure that WE THE PEOPLE are the elite, that we get the gold, but that was taken away in the corporatist revolution that was the 16th amendment and the Ferral Reserve Act.

Look its simple, the elite take things that are real, and steal them from us. Like, water is real, the elite go for water, don't have water, because it is the elite, what freaking nonsense. GO BACK TO SCHOOL. Either you grab it, or they will. Claim your liberties or they will take it from you.

Or lie down and take a shafting.

I need to "GO BACK TO SCHOOL" which is a federal government indoctrination center that teaches communism, eugenics, feminism, globalism, and other forms of tyranny, because I DISAGREE WITH YOU?  Wow, grow the hell up.

[planning4acrash]

but if you make it now that gold is currency, its value will surely go up.
those who own that gold will benefit

The justice system is your mechanism to confiscate gold from people in the elite who stole our freedoms, who are criminals. Try to delineate the very separate issues of justice and sound money.

It is completely stupid to say that outlawing fake stuff (fiat paper) will make real stuff (gold) worth more, and we can't do that because those who hold real stuff will get rich, but they are rich already.

[planning4acrash]

"GO BACK TO SCHOOL"

at Mises.org and campaignforliberty.com

[EvadingGrid]

"For the first years of [Ludwig von] Mises’s life in the United States...he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.” -- Richard M. Ebeling

[planning4acrash]

"For the first years of [Ludwig von] Mises’s life in the United States...he was almost totally dependent on annual research grants from the Rockefeller Foundation.” -- Richard M. Ebeling

Mises fled to USA after the NAZI's destroyed his library. He had NOTHING when he landed in America. Mises was known to be a genius, so of course he was offered funding. BUT, any attempts to control him failed, and the quote above suggests that Mises was only funded for a couple of years. Maybe because he didn't toe the line? Maybe because, instead of using the destruction of his work to be pro-collectivism he published book after book explaining every facet of how personal liberty is better than government tyranny.

Ron Paul follows the works of Mises, and Mises wrote only about the evils of government. So, if you want to split hairs, and criticize a destroyed refugee of accepting some research cash in his first couple of years after emancipation from NAZI persecution, then be my guest, but let it be known that you are paid co-intel-pro.

[citizenx]

EG is paid COINTEL?

I would never have known, but then I suppose I am, too.

That is some serious contortionism you have going on there.  How do you get your head in exactly that position?

I guess rational argument so far having eluded you, you feel it necessary to throw random accusations at random posters on the forum -- or are you going to accuse me and BTT of being COINTEL as well.

Good luck with all that.

Up until now I just assumed you were a goldbug looking after the value of your investments, but now I think you bear more looking into yourself.

Here's one blast from the past:

The elite already have the gold and could already buy up everything.

I suspect there are many more.

[EvadingGrid]

Mises fled to USA after the NAZI's destroyed his library. He had NOTHING when he landed in America. Mises was known to be a genius, so of course he was offered funding. BUT, any attempts to control him failed, and the quote above suggests that Mises was only funded for a couple of years. Maybe because he didn't toe the line? Maybe because, instead of using the destruction of his work to be pro-collectivism he published book after book explaining every facet of how personal liberty is better than government tyranny.

Ron Paul follows the works of Mises, and Mises wrote only about the evils of government. So, if you want to split hairs, and criticize a destroyed refugee of accepting some research cash in his first couple of years after emancipation from NAZI persecution, then be my guest, but let it be known that you are paid co-intel-pro.

So you have the decency honesty and virtue to admit its true, which counts for a lot in my book.

Naturally I forgive you having a little anger and venom in your post. That's good because we need people with a little backbone if we are to stand up to the bullying evil ones.



As to me being paid, or open to bribes that is laughable . . .
Consider what could they possibly offer me that I would accept as payment ?

Silly printed pieces of paper with occult symbols ?
Yellow metal that weighs more than lead - or polished beads ?
Bits of broken glass that are supposed to be rare ?
A bit of land that they can take back any time they please through emminent domain ?


What I do truly value, is my freedom, and that can not be bought, sold or traded. It is not theirs to give, grant, or take away - as it is mine by right of birth - my inalienable right granted by God.

Money is just a means of exchange for goods that have real value.
It is a means to and end, and not an end in itself.
You can not eat money, nor can you sow money, nor will it love you back.


Money is not a blessing, it is a burden of responsibility, for which God will hold us accountable.


I can forsee many people at some future date locked up in some FEMA death camp, thinking of their piles of gold buried at some secret location, wishing they had given it all away to The Money Bomb.

The things in life that have real value, such as friends, family and health - can not be purchased.

As to those private citizens or choose to invest a sensible proportion of their wealth in a few coins in order to protect their family and loved ones - I support that as part of a balanced survival and insurance plan.

[lord edward coke]

The problem is not fiat money. It is debt money.

WRONG!!!   Fiat money is always a problem. History shows that !00% of all fiat money has failed.We should not have to re-learn this truism. citizenx, you are too knowledgeable to get side-tracked by the false-solution pimped by the other money thread. They always run back to their GOD,Government, and give them MORE power!!! (that is not a solution-that is enslavement.)

You had already come up with an answer- If grandma wants to print her own money- it is her right,not governments. T. Jefferson agrees with the premise that the people decide what 'money' is:       http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bank-tj.asp

 Quotation: "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered...I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Genesis 47:15 (King James Version)

 15And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.

Gov does this on purpose to enslave.
A gold or silver certificate is not the answer, only intrinsic value or Grandma printed coupons.

Also consider that every war of the last few centuries has been enabled by funny money and 'credit.'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvA64O2LySc

[EvadingGrid]

WRONG!!!   Fiat money is always a problem. History shows that !00% of all fiat money has failed.We should not have to re-learn this truism. citizenx, you are too knowledgeable to get side-tracked by the false-solution pimped by the other money thread. They always run back to their GOD,Government, and give them MORE power!!! (that is not a solution-that is enslavement.)

We've had Tally Sticks, and they did not fail (for about 800 years), they finally got usurped.
We've also had gold / sliver backed money AND run away inflation.

[lord edward coke]

Mises fled to USA after the NAZI's destroyed his library. He had NOTHING when he landed in America. Mises was known to be a genius, so of course he was offered funding. BUT, any attempts to control him failed, and the quote above suggests that Mises was only funded for a couple of years. Maybe because he didn't toe the line? Maybe because, instead of using the destruction of his work to be pro-collectivism he published book after book explaining every facet of how personal liberty is better than government tyranny.

Ron Paul follows the works of Mises, and Mises wrote only about the evils of government. So, if you want to split hairs, and criticize a destroyed refugee of accepting some research cash in his first couple of years after emancipation from NAZI persecution, then be my guest, but let it be known that you are paid co-intel-pro.

This is a great post and sums it up nicely. They reject Mises,because he goes against the false god of government. The Bible
states 'you shall have just weights and measures.' This law was put into the constitution by the founders of this country. When they
made Gold and silver the coin of the realm. Of course, The co-conspirators ,g.washington and hamilton crapped on the constitution and gave you a national bank.
I do not agree with your last ten words tho, But would think that someone who cherishes the word of God could recognize the difference between real money and fake.(an item with intrinsic value and a government 'promise' to redeem in lawfull money; which was gold or silver.A real shame we have to re-learn the lessons of the past.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=insVgcOVVDQ&feature=related

[planning4acrash]

Gold is mentioned more times in the bible than any other metal, because it equals honest money "do not bear a false witness" and "thou shalt not steal". Fiat money is about theft and it and false weights and measures are about bearing a false witness. Folk here can attempt all they like to rationalize reduced, more prudent versions of lying and stealing, but in the end, it is an immoral society you are participating in, which sows the seeds of moral hazard that lead to tyranny down the road. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[EvadingGrid]

This is a great post and sums it up nicely. They reject Mises,because he goes against the false god of government.

You just gone psycho because your cult leader has been exposed as a Rockefeller lackey ?
AND
That makes me paid cointel ?

Go back and read what I actually said earlier.

[planning4acrash]

Evading Grid, Mises, fleeing the Nazi's, after they destroyed his library and the books he was writing, accepted some money after landing in USA penniless. I mean, judge a fellow by his fruits will you,

[planning4acrash]

What I do truly value, is my freedom, and that can not be bought, sold or traded. It is not theirs to give, grant, or take away - as it is mine by right of birth - my inalienable right granted by God.

Yes, so the simple issue then is, to support Ron Paul's attempt to abolish legal tender laws. Money is merely a commodity, like any other. It is a means to store and exchange favors, if honest. I do something you value, you give me money, I then have currency to ask favors from others.

Money is a commodity, just as oil is a store of energy, and we don't have government provide any other commodity, so why let them provide money and force us to use inferior money substitutes?

If you accept that we should not be forced to use inferior money in transactions, then you should let free market corporations compete to provide the most suitable form of money, just as they compete to provide you cars and other things. That way, people can choose to reject inferior fake fiat money, and companies will compete to provide the soundest, and most suitable money.

Fortunately, there can be a government role, because through history, we know that silver and gold bullion are suitable for sound money, so it is a viable alternative to have Congress coin constitutional money, but even then, we should have the option of that money, as a standard, and should not be forced to use it via legal tender laws.

But any counterfeiter should suffer the hand of the law.

One big problem with the Jefferson quote is, that one should differentiate between regulated monopoly corporations providing money. The Fed is a monopoly corporation with its monopoly provided by government, which forces people to use its notes. That does not occur in a free market. The government does not force you to use Ford cars, so you don't buy them unless they meet you needs. Money is no different. Its just another commodity, that, if controlled, provides power to destroy, just as sound money provides people the power to co-operate and create.

[freedom_commonsense]

I take it you've not heard of gold-plated tungsten?

As for a comprehensive argument against the Austrian School take on money: http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=98465.msg1052052#msg1052052

Could you address the roles of land speculation and interest in creating inflation for example?

[planning4acrash]

Land speculation can only cause bubbles and general inflation if accompanied by undue expansion in the money supply, that can only occur with fractional reserve banking and manipulated interest rates. The speculators who cause damage are those that government give power to leverage assets with fake fiat money. Worse, the current bubble was primarily caused because government let mortgages be treated as assets, when they are infact liabilities until paid off. Thus, treating a liability as an asset, banks could pile liabilities upon each other, selling them and leveraging them as if they were assets, leveraged by fake fiat money.

In short, bubbles are caused by fraud, legalized and protected by government.

[worcesteradam]

anyone funded by Rockefeller needs to be treated with suspicion

Is there evidence that can confirm Ebeling's quote

[planning4acrash]

anyone funded by Rockefeller needs to be treated with suspicion

- If he was funded, it was for a couple of years, whilst they tried, but failed, to direct his research. The opposite can be found with Greenspan, who wrote a Treatise on gold standard and liberty only to become compromised. That never happened with Mises.

And please, think for yourself and research what he wrote:

Peter Schiff: "Why Was Anyone Surprised By the Crash?" http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/index.php?p=episode&name=2009-03-15_104_why_was_anyone_surprised_by_the_crash.mp3
Lew Rockwell interviews Jorg Guido Hillisman: "The Austrian theory of the Business Cycle": http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-08-11_017_austrian_theory_of_the_business_cycle.mp3
What You Should Know About Inflation by Henry Hazlitt (1964): "What you should know about inflation": http://mises.org/daily/2914
Jorg Guido Hullisman "The Cultural and Spiritual Legacy of Fiat Inflation": http://mises.org/media/3200

Please, research his literature and those associated with him before criticizing him.