9 Killed/Hundreds Kidnapped by Israeli commandos who stormed Gaza Flotilla

[needguide]

he should not have been killed.
I am not condoning the deaths of any of them.
I think a lot of use are just coming in to this story and don't have all the facts and
history in and around this event.

This story and stories surrounding it ,and posts are on the verge of hate and propaganda.
I don't know the outcome, but know that that part of the world is in danger of starting a fire that
will not be easy to put out.

I know that he was an american,
what i want to know is was he there to be a martyr?
did he believe in american values?
did he and his family believe in american values?

I am lost, please explain,  American values?

[citizenx]

Apparently, "American" values don't include being willing to put your neck on the line for humanity, truth, and justice.

[needguide]

Apparently, "American" values don't include being willing to put your neck on the line for humanity, truth, and justice.

I don't know although, 99 virgins seems to do the trick

[lovkarpin]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3898901,00.html
Netanyahu: No ships to reach Gaza

Prime minister tells forum of top seven government ministers he has no intention of allowing any vessels to breach Gaza naval blockade,
'now or later'; referring to Rachel Corrie ship, en route to Israel, PM says: We'll direct it to Israeli port

Officials expect no confrontation
Earlier, security officials estimated that activists aboard the Rachel Corrie will prefer to dock in Ashdod rather than to go on to Gaza. Officials believe the activists will seek to transfer their goods via land, while collaborating with Israel.

"If this is not the case, we will do everything to stop them without casualties," a security official said. "We are engaging in negotiations with whoever is out there."

Earlier Thursday, PM Netanyahu met with Quarter Envoy Tony Blair and told him he's willing to examine "creative ways" to bring aid into Gaza, after the goods are examined.

[needguide]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3898901,00.html
Netanyahu: No ships to reach Gaza

Prime minister tells forum of top seven government ministers he has no intention of allowing any vessels to breach Gaza naval blockade,
'now or later'; referring to Rachel Corrie ship, en route to Israel, PM says: We'll direct it to Israeli port

Officials expect no confrontation
Earlier, security officials estimated that activists aboard the Rachel Corrie will prefer to dock in Ashdod rather than to go on to Gaza. Officials believe the activists will seek to transfer their goods via land, while collaborating with Israel.




"If this is not the case, we will do everything to stop them without casualties," a security official said. "We are engaging in negotiations with whoever is out there."

Earlier Thursday, PM Netanyahu met with Quarter Envoy Tony Blair and told him he's willing to examine "creative ways" to bring aid into Gaza, after the goods are examined.

Well it seems to me, That A air drop would suffice!

[Dig]

S, What are you talking about? his last statement was "I'm afraid that is one piece of the propaganda i can't swallow"  Is  it me our is it you ?

Read his first statements:

i'm finding this "he was an american boy" thing a big stretch of the truth he may have be born here
BUT he left at the age of 2 years old.
That hardly makes him an american boy he was raised in a totality different culture than an american of his age.

and then his other comments about questioning his "values" because he wanted to feed staving, tortured, and forgotten children. I mean, wtf?

[Dig]

he should not have been killed.
I am not condoning the deaths of any of them.
I think a lot of use are just coming in to this story and don't have all the facts and
history in and around this event.

This story and stories surrounding it ,and posts are on the verge of hate and propaganda.
I don't know the outcome, but know that that part of the world is in danger of starting a fire that
will not be easy to put out.

I know that he was an american,
what i want to know is was he there to be a martyr?
did he believe in american values?
did he and his family believe in american values?

Do you believe in American values? Do you believe that you should not investigate the assassinations of American citiizens by black operations commando units of states that regularly engage in terrorism and who are actively covering up their actions by subverting basic logic and any semblance of reality?

I think Cindy Sheehan sai it best:

“Are you all outraged? I just want to say something, and please excuse my language. But just who in the f**k does Israel think they are!?!  To board a humanitarian aid ship in international waters, and slaughter our brothers and sisters, who in the f**k do they think they are!?! And the only reason they do this SHIT is because they get away with it. They’ve been getting away with slaughtering Palestinians now for decades. The international community has to put an end to this!”

~Cindy Sheehan, in San Francisco on Tuesday

Here's the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQpSscs9QwY

[citizenx]

I don't know although, 99 virgins seems to do the trick

We don't know that's why he was willing to die.

That is a cynical Western/American point-of-view, IMO.

Is hanging out with Jesus and playing a harp on a cloud, a better reason to risk your life to help other people?

Have you ever been willing to stick your own neck out for the things you believed in?  Why?

Needguide, you are wrong, too.

[Dig]

Maybe the commandos were on Obama orders to assassinate American citizens?

Would we ever know?

Is this what we are to expect with the Obama/Brzezinski "assassinate American citizens" program?

Are we going to see more of this?

[Dig]

I don't know although, 99 virgins seems to do the trick

do the trick with what? 99 virgins is a Brzezinski invention. Are you saying that this guy worked for Brzezinski, Obama's National Security Advisor?

Are you saying he was CIA covert ops like the guy who planned the Mumbai attacks or Mohammed Atta who worked for "The Family"?

What are you saying?

[needguide]

do the trick with what? 99 virgins is a Brzezinski invention. Are you saying that this guy worked for Brzezinski, Obama's National Security Advisor?

Are you saying he was CIA covert ops like the guy who planned the Mumbai attacks or Mohammed Atta who worked for "The Family"?

What are you saying?

I am to busy laughing to say anything.....

[Dig]

US citizen killed on flotilla was shot four times in head, execution style
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0603/citizen-killed-flotilla-reportedly-shot-times-head/
By Raw Story Thursday, June 3rd, 2010 -- 2:20 pm

"One of the nine people killed in the Israeli raid on an aid flotilla Monday was a 19-year-old man with dual U.S.-Turkish citizenship, a U.S. State Department official said," CBS News reports.

The official identified the victim as Furkan Dogan, who was believed to have been residing in Turkey.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter has not been officially confirmed by the U.S. government.

The official said the victim had been shot but it was not clear who shot him. He was among eight of the dead being mourned at a funeral in Istanbul Thursday.

ABC NEWS adds, "A forensic report said he was shot at close range, with four bullets in his head and one in his chest, according to the Anatolian news agency."

Dogan was a high school student studying social sciences in the town of Kayseri in central Turkey. He was born in the United States and moved to Turkey at the age of 2. He will be buried in his hometown tomorrow.

Dogan's body was returned to Turkey today along with eight others, all Turkish nationals, who were on board the Mavi Marmara.

The nationalities of the dead were determined after post-mortem examinations at a forensic institute in Istanbul, where the bodies were flown early Thursday, Anatolia said.

The nine activists who died in an Israeli raid on aid ships bound for Gaza were shot dead, the Anatolia news agency reported.

Forensic experts in Istanbul found bullet marks on the bodies of all the victims.

The experts said the exact circumstances of the activists' deaths would become clear in a balistics examination that would take about a month to complete.

The New York Times reports, "The Cihan news agency reported that

[the American Citizen,] Mr. Dogan had one bullet in the chest and four bullets fired into his head from close range."

An official from Humanitarian Relief Foundation, or İHH, NGO that organized the flotilla to Gaza, identified the U.S. citizen as 19-year-old Furkan Doğan, originally from the central Turkish town of Kayseri. Doğan had four bullet wounds to the head and one to the chest, Ömer Yağmur of İHH, told Anatolia.

The 19 wounded activists deported from Israel were also suffering from gun wounds, the chief doctor of the hospital in Ankara treating them said.

"The patients generally have serious injuries to their chests, abdomens and limbs. What we have is mostly gun wounds," Metin Doğan said in televised remarks.

[Dok]

do the trick with what? 99 virgins is a Brzezinski invention. Are you saying that this guy worked for Brzezinski, Obama's National Security Advisor?

Are you saying he was CIA covert ops like the guy who planned the Mumbai attacks or Mohammed Atta who worked for "The Family"?

What are you saying?

its ah, 72 big breasted woman of equal age.

Surah an-Naba' (78:33)
Hadith number 2,562

[rio]

he should not have been killed.
I am not condoning the deaths of any of them.
I think a lot of use are just coming in to this story and don't have all the facts and
history in and around this event.

This story and stories surrounding it ,and posts are on the verge of hate and propaganda.
I don't know the outcome, but know that that part of the world is in danger of starting a fire that
will not be easy to put out.

I know that he was an american,
what i want to know is was he there to be a martyr?
did he believe in american values?
did he and his family believe in american values?
did he see himself as a american?

sorry i am not as fast at typing as most being a product of
California  public education.
I never professed love for beck like every thing he should be taken with a grain of salt.

Typical Israeli hasbra coming from the new forum member. It's the same baloney that Zio spammers came out in the aftermath of the Gaza slaughter: "we don't have all the facts, boths sides are at fault, you guys are haters" yada yada...

The only hate that was spewed was the hatred of the humanitarians by a bunch of psycho Israelis.

[chaosgods]

from what i am reading this is not the fist ship to be stopped and inspected.
It appears that they may have chosen to be martyrs for there cause
and some may have put the live of others on the ship in danger by attacking/provoking
the the Israeli commandos.
I am not saying they should have been killed.
I looks like a setup, and apparently by the statements in this article they will be "honored in Heaven"

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/163891/
"Let them do what they want, we know how to be martyrs for Palestine and Jerusalem, and that's what we became," said Bulent Yildirim, the head of the Islamic charity group IHH, which organized the Gaza flotilla, before mourners carried the coffins through the crowd to cars to be taken for burial"

I think this was what they wanted to happen.
I feel for the lose of life.

hopefully it will bring people to learn more about Gaza as it has me in the last few days.
I prey that it does not lead to a war because i fear that is what some want.

I think some don't get that peaceful protest should bring more peace not be used to trick
others to go to War!

[Viper]

its ah, 72 big breasted woman of equal age.

Surah an-Naba' (78:33)
Hadith number 2,562

All religions blame women for the downfall of man.

[Dig]

I am to busy laughing to say anything.....

So you admit he was most likely a CIA asset used in some crazy "red team"/"blue team" wargames and then the "Larry Potts" of the engagement decided to cap off a few people for shits and giggles.

Iran/[Potomac] Encounter Grimly Echoes ’02 War Game
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/washington/12navy.html
By THOM SHANKER
Published: January 12, 2008

WASHINGTON — There is a reason American military officers express grim concern over the tactics used by Iranian sailors last weekend: a classified, $250 million war game in which small, agile speedboats swarmed a naval convoy to inflict devastating damage on more powerful warships.

In the days since the encounter with five Iranian patrol boats in the Strait of Hormuz, American officers have acknowledged that they have been studying anew the lessons from a startling simulation conducted in August 2002. In that war game, the Blue Team navy, representing the United States, lost 16 major warships — an aircraft carrier, cruisers and amphibious vessels — when they were sunk to the bottom of the Persian Gulf in an attack that included swarming tactics by enemy speedboats.

“The sheer numbers involved overloaded their ability, both mentally and electronically, to handle the attack,” said Lt. Gen. Paul K. Van Riper, a retired Marine Corps officer who served in the war game as commander of a Red Team force representing an unnamed Persian Gulf military. “The whole thing was over in 5, maybe 10 minutes.”

If the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, proved to the public how terrorists could transform hijacked airliners into hostage-filled cruise missiles, then the “Millennium Challenge 2002” war game with General Van Riper was a warning to the armed services as to how an adversary could apply similar, asymmetrical thinking to conflict at sea.

General Van Riper said he complained at the time that important lessons of his simulated victory were not adequately acknowledged across the military. But other senior officers say the war game and subsequent analysis and exercises helped to focus attention on the threat posed by Iran’s small, fast boats, and helped to prepare commanders for last weekend’s encounter.

“It’s clear, strategically, where the Iranian military has gone,” Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters on Friday. “For the years that this strategic shift toward their small, fast boats has taken place, we’ve been very focused on that.”

In the simulation, General Van Riper sent wave after wave of relatively inexpensive speedboats to charge at the costlier, more advanced fleet approaching the Persian Gulf. His force of small boats attacked with machine guns and rockets, reinforced with missiles launched from land and air. Some of the small boats were loaded with explosives to detonate alongside American warships in suicide attacks. That core tactic of swarming played out in real life last weekend, though on a much more limited scale and without any shots fired.

According to Pentagon and Navy officials, five small patrol boats belonging to Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps charged a three-ship Navy convoy, maneuvering around and between an American destroyer, cruiser and frigate during a tense half-hour encounter. The location was where the narrow Strait of Hormuz meets the open waters of the Persian Gulf — the same choke point chosen by General Van Riper for his attack.

In the encounter last Sunday, the commander of one American warship trained an M240 machine gun — which fires upward of 10 armor-piercing slugs per second — on an Iranian boat that pulled within 200 yards of the American vessel. But the Iranians turned away before the commander gave the order to fire.

That was not the case in the simulation, sponsored by the military’s Joint Forces Command. The victory of the force modeled after a Persian Gulf state — a composite of Iran and Iraq — astounded sponsors of what was then the largest joint war-fighting exercise ever held, involving 13,500 military members and civilians battling in nine live exercise ranges in the United States, and double that many computer simulations to replicate a number of different battles.

General Van Riper’s attack was much more complex and sophisticated than anything that could have involved the Iranian boats last weekend. The broad outline of the 2002 war game was reported at the time, but in interviews since last weekend’s episode, General Van Riper and other officers have provided new details about the simulation.

In the war game, scores of adversary speedboats and larger naval vessels had been shadowing and hectoring the Blue Team fleet for days. The Blue Team defenses also faced cruise missiles fired simultaneously from land and from warplanes, as well as the swarm of speedboats firing heavy machine guns and rockets — and pulling alongside to detonate explosives on board.

When the Red Team sank much of the Blue navy despite the Blue navy’s firing of guns and missiles, it illustrated a cheap way to beat a very expensive fleet. After the Blue force was sunk, the game was ordered to begin again, with the Blue Team eventually declared the victor.

In a telephone interview, General Van Riper recalled that his idea of a swarming attack grew from Marine Corps studies of the natural world, where insects and animals — from tiny ant colonies to wolf packs — move in groups to overwhelm larger prey.

“It is not a matter of size or of individual capability, but whether you have the numbers and come from multiple directions in a short period of time,” he said.

Although Washington and Tehran continue to duel over details of the encounter, American officials say the Iranians may have been seeking to provoke a violent confrontation as President Bush was about to visit the region. Or, the officials say, they might have been hoping to test the American reaction. Yet there is no certainty that the encounter was ordered by the government in Tehran.

Pentagon officials on Friday said there were two encounters with small Iranian boats in the region last month. In one, a Navy warship fired warning shots and in the other a warning whistle was sounded. Both encounters ended without injury after the Iranian vessels turned away.

Regardless, American sailors have not forgotten how a small boat that hid among refueling and garbage vessels off a port in Yemen detonated alongside the American destroyer Cole in October 2000, killing 17 Americans and crippling the warship.

Corporate Media Ignore Cheney False Flag Plan
http://stationcharon.blogspot.com/2008/08/corporate-media-ignore-cheney-false.html
Tuesday, August 05, 2008

As John McCain and Barack Obama traipse across the fruited plain jacking each other off with talking points designed to never cover the true problems that have brought the empire of greed and death to the edge of the abyss the neocon traitors in Dick Cheney's office are still busy plotting WWIII. The latest outrage is this from New Yorker journalist Seymour Hersh about the false flag options being planned to provide and excuse to pay Israeli right-wing freaks back for their assistance with 9/11 by attacking and eradicating Iran (and the rest of us) and that unbelievably included dressing up Navy Seals and then sending them out to attack U.S. Naval vessels. Not that it should come as a surprise that Cheney and his secret government scum would sacrifice the lives of Americans to pursue their PNAC plan for world conquest, they have the blood of 3,000 innocent victims already on their hands for 9/11 alone. Shameful that this doesn't merit any mention in the American mainstream media - then again Der Sturmer didn't report on Hitler's herding of Jews into gas chambers either.

To Provoke War, Cheney Considered Proposal To Dress Up Navy Seals As Iranians and Shoot at Them

Thursday 31 July 2008

by: Faiz Shakir, ThinkProgress.org (via Truthout)

Speaking at the Campus Progress journalism conference earlier this month, Seymour Hersh - a Pulitzer-Prize winning journalist for The New Yorker - revealed that Bush administration officials held a meeting recently in the Vice President's office to discuss ways to provoke a war with Iran.

In Hersh's most recent article, he reports that this meeting occurred in the wake of the overblown incident in the Strait of Hormuz, when a U.S. carrier almost shot at a few small Iranian speedboats. The "meeting took place in the Vice-President's office. 'The subject was how to create a casus belli between Tehran and Washington,'" according to one of Hersh's sources.

During the journalism conference event, I asked Hersh specifically about this meeting and if he could elaborate on what occurred. Hersh explained that, during the meeting in Cheney's office, an idea was considered to dress up Navy Seals as Iranians, put them on fake Iranian speedboats, and shoot at them. This idea, intended to provoke an Iran war, was ultimately rejected:

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.

Might cost some lives. And it was rejected because you can't have Americans killing Americans. That's the kind of - that's the level of stuff we're talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected

Hersh argued that one of the things the Bush administration learned during the encounter in the Strait of Hormuz was that, "if you get the right incident, the American public will support" it.

"Look, is it high school? Yeah," Hersh said. "Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We're playing, you know, who's the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran."

Transcript:

HERSH: There was a meeting. Among the items considered and rejected - which is why the New Yorker did not publish it, on grounds that it wasn't accepted - one of the items was why not…

There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up. Might cost some lives.

And it was rejected because you can't have Americans killing Americans. That's the kind of - that's the level of stuff we're talking about. Provocation. But that was rejected.

So I can understand the argument for not writing something that was rejected - uh maybe. My attitude always towards editors is they're mice training to be rats.

But the point is jejune, if you know what that means. Silly? Maybe. But potentially very lethal. Because one of the things they learned in the incident was the American public, if you get the right incident, the American public will support bang-bang-kiss-kiss. You know, we're into it.

…What happened in the Gulf was, in the Straits, in early January, the President was just about to go to the Middle East for a visit. So that was one reason they wanted to gin it up. Get it going.

Look, is it high school? Yeah. Are we playing high school with you know 5,000 nuclear warheads in our arsenal? Yeah we are. We're playing, you know, who's the first guy to run off the highway with us and Iran.

Kevin Drum adds:

If this story sounds familiar, that's because it is. In one of David Manning's famous memos describing a prewar meeting between George Bush and Tony Blair, he says that Bush admitted that WMD was unlikely to be found in Iraq and then mused on some possible options for justifying a war anyway:

"The U.S. was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in U.N. colours," the memo says, attributing the idea to Mr. Bush. "If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach."

In the end, of course, we didn't do this. We just didn't bother with any pretext at all

Looks like the state department is now sending in the clean up crew...

US to probe American death in Israeli raid
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/US_to_probe_American_death_in_Israe_06032010.html
Published: Thursday June 3, 2010

The United States said Thursday it would probe the death of a Turkish-American killed in an Israeli raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, but said the FBI were not involved "at this point."

"We will look into the circumstances of the death of an American citizen, as we would do anywhere in the world at all times," State Department spokesman Philip Crowley told reporters.

Crowley declined to specify who is "evaluating the facts" surrounding the death of the dual US-Turkish national, whom he identified as Furkan Dogan, a 19-year-old born in Troy, New York.

"We have officials at a variety of levels here and in Israel," he said, adding they were in contact with Israeli officials and the family of the deceased.

When asked if the FBI would be involved, he replied: "At this point, no."

Crowley said the Federal Bureau of Investigation might become involved if the US government launched a more formal inquiry.

"Anytime an American is killed overseas, we have the option of evaluating the circumstances and if we think a crime has been committed, then, working with the host government, we have the option of our own investigation," he said.

"We are evaluating the facts as we can best ascertain them and, based on that evaluation of the information that's available, we have a variety of options that are available to us," Crowley said.

The Turkish government confirmed Thursday that eight Turks and a US national of Turkish origin were shot dead in an Israeli raid before dawn Monday on Gaza-bound aid ships.

A statement by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's office released the identities of the nine victims, all men aged between 19 and 61, the youngest of whom was the Turk with US citizenship.

The bodies were handed over to families after post-mortem examinations in Istanbul, the statement said.

Crowley said US consular officials visited an Israeli morgue to view the bodies of those killed in the raid, but he was not aware that US officials had seen Dogan once he had been identified as a dual US-Turkish national.

[Dig]

THIS LOOKS LIKE MORE EVIDENCE THAT THIS MAY HAVE BEEN A WAR GAME WITH DEEP COVER PROVOCATEURS USED AS "RED TEAM" ASSETS. WE NOW KNOW THAT THE 19 HIJACKERS ON 9/11 WERE "RED TEAM" ASSETS AND WE KNOW THAT ON 9/11 THEY WERE RUNNING WAR GAMES INVOLVING MULTIPLE HIJACKINGS AND NRO"PLANES IN BUILDINGS" ACTIONS.THE THREE MAIN QUESTIONS REMAIN...

1] WHO PROVIDED THE INTEL?

2] WHO GAVE THE ORDERS?

3] WHAT ARE ALL OF THE DETAILS OF WARGAMES IN THE AREA DURING THE MONTHS BEFORE AND AFTER THE INCIDENT?

THE AMERICAN TURK MAY HAVE BEEN A "RED TEAM" ASSET FOR WAR GAMES. HE MAY HAVE BEEN RECRUITED DURING CHENEY'S MK ULTRA/MK PATRIOT KILLING ROOM PROJECTS! WE NEED FULL DISCLOSURE OF THESE TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL ASSETS ASAP!

WHO KNOWS IF IT IS TRUE. MAYBE IF OUR ALPHABET AGENCIES ACTUALLY DID EVEN A CURSORY INVESTIGATION, SOME ANSWERS AS TO THE VALIDITY OF THIS POSSIBILITY COULD QUICKLY BE EVALUATED. PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME YOU ARE TOO BUSY REVIEWING OBAMA'S NEW "INTERNATIONAL ORDERS TO PROTECT GLOBALISTS AND THEIR LIES" RATHER THAN YOUR  CONSTITUTIONAL OATHS.

[citizenx]

I'm not going to say it in big red caps, but I don't think this young man was a mind-controlled victim of MK Ultra.  I think he really may have been a real martyr.  We have some on planet Earth.  They are few and far between, and who is to say they do not necessarily represent the best part of humanity?

Was Ghandi a victim of mind-control, too?

If he was, sign me up.  Better yet, for my family's sake, don't.

I am not a young man any more.  I will leave idealism for them, but that is what I think he was -- an idealist.

[Satyagraha]

its ah, 72 big breasted woman of equal age.

Surah an-Naba' (78:33)
Hadith number 2,562

You had to go there, didn't you Dok?

"72 Virgins"

The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:

    "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[62]

Margaret Nydell states that mainstream Muslims regard this belief about 72 virgins in the same way that mainstream Christians regard the belief that after death they will be issued with wings and a harp, and walk on clouds.[63]

Another interpretation of the relevant passages of the Qur'an is The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an written by Christoph Luxenberg. In respect of this particular point, Luxenberg argues that the relevant passage actually translates to a portrayal of paradise as a lush garden with pooling water and trees with rare fruit, including white raisins (considered to be delicacies at the time that the Qur'an was written), not virgin maidens.[64][65]

Regarding the above statement, Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf has said: "The narration, which claims that everyone would have seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators." [46]

=================================================

But you can understand that ZBig and his minions would promote the interpretation which offers the most prurient and sexually titillating of 'stories' as part of their overall plan to demonize Islam, right? And pointing out the "buxom maidens" without also understanding that buxom (as in breast milk) is a reference to fertility (and not Playboy) is playing ZBig's game.

[Dok]

You had to go there, didn't you Dok?

"72 Virgins"

The concept of 72 virgins in Islam refers to an aspect of paradise. In a collection by Imam at-Tirmidhi in his "Sunan" (Volume IV, Chapters on "The Features of Heaven as described by the Messenger of Allah", chapter 21: "About the Smallest Reward for the People of Heaven", hadith 2687) and also quoted by Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir (Qur'anic Commentary) of Surah Qur'an 55:72, it is stated that:

    "It was mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim, that Abu al-Haytham 'Adullah Ibn Wahb narrated from Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, who heard Muhammad saying, 'The smallest reward for the people of Heaven is an abode where there are eighty thousand servants and seventy-two houri, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine and ruby, as wide as the distance from al-Jabiyyah to San'a.[62]

Margaret Nydell states that mainstream Muslims regard this belief about 72 virgins in the same way that mainstream Christians regard the belief that after death they will be issued with wings and a harp, and walk on clouds.[63]

Another interpretation of the relevant passages of the Qur'an is The Syro-Aramaic Reading Of The Qur'an written by Christoph Luxenberg. In respect of this particular point, Luxenberg argues that the relevant passage actually translates to a portrayal of paradise as a lush garden with pooling water and trees with rare fruit, including white raisins (considered to be delicacies at the time that the Qur'an was written), not virgin maidens.[64][65]

Regarding the above statement, Hafiz Salahuddin Yusuf has said: "The narration, which claims that everyone would have seventy-two wives has a weak chain of narrators." [46]

=================================================

But you can understand that ZBig and his minions would promote the interpretation which offers the most prurient and sexually titillating of 'stories' as part of their overall plan to demonize Islam, right? And pointing out the "buxom maidens" without also understanding that buxom (as in breast milk) is a reference to fertility (and not Playboy) is playing ZBig's game.

sorry but i gave the 2 verses.  

Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi  says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby." 

Surah an-Naba' (78:33)

But, for the God-fearing is a blissful abode, Enclosed gardens and vineyards; And damsels with swelling breasts, their peers in age, And a full cup:

[citizenx]

All religions blame women for the downfall of man.

Including Zbigniew's apparently, whatever it is.  But, I agree with you.

"The Devil made me do it."

[Satyagraha]

sorry but i gave the 2 verses.  

Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi  says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."  

Surah an-Naba' (78:33)

But, for the God-fearing is a blissful abode, Enclosed gardens and vineyards; And damsels with swelling breasts, their peers in age, And a full cup:

Like the bible, it's all in the translation. I can show you three different Korans with three different translations of the same verse. As for Hadith, there are some that are generally accepted by scholars, and some that are not. (Not unlike books of the bible that 'made the cut' and others that did not). At any rate, promoting the most prurient of interpretations is something the NWO would prefer you do. Carry on then.

[Dok]

Like the bible, it's all in the translation. I can show you three different Korans with three different translations of the same verse. As for Hadith, there are some that are generally accepted by scholars, and some that are not. (Not unlike books of the bible that 'made the cut' and others that did not). At any rate, promoting the most prurient of interpretations is something the NWO would prefer you do. Carry on then.

sorry, but that is the generally accepted translation. but believe what you want, matters not to me.

[Dig]

sorry, but that is the generally accepted translation. but believe what you want, matters not to me.

sorry, but your pomposiity is getting a bit un-christian. you think you could possibly deflate your ego enough so that people can breathe here?

[tritonman]

http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12483&Itemid=139

TURKEY: PATROL SHIP CIRCLING NEAR GAZA COAST

According to a STRATFOR source, only a Turkish patrol ship is circling the area near the Gaza coast, but is not entering Israeli territorial waters. There is no sign of readiness on the part of the Turkish navy to provide escorts to aid ships making their way to the Gaza coast. The source indicated that the patrol ship is only in observation mode for the time being.

[Dig]

from what i am reading this is not the fist ship to be stopped and inspected.
It appears that they may have chosen to be martyrs for there cause
and some may have put the live of others on the ship in danger by attacking/provoking
the the Israeli commandos.
I am not saying they should have been killed.
I looks like a setup, and apparently by the statements in this article they will be "honored in Heaven"

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/163891/
"Let them do what they want, we know how to be martyrs for Palestine and Jerusalem, and that's what we became," said Bulent Yildirim, the head of the Islamic charity group IHH, which organized the Gaza flotilla, before mourners carried the coffins through the crowd to cars to be taken for burial"

I think this was what they wanted to happen.
I feel for the lose of life.

hopefully it will bring people to learn more about Gaza as it has me in the last few days.
I prey that it does not lead to a war because i fear that is what some want.

I think some don't get that peaceful protest should bring more peace not be used to trick
others to go to War!

Again, this is the Brzezxiski program from the 1970's.

So you are saying that you suspect he was a victim of the Brzezinski initiative to create these cells for false flag terrorism?

that is a pretty bold statement.

[Dok]

sorry, but your pomposiity is getting a bit un-christian. you think you could possibly deflate your ego enough so that people can breathe here?

sure. 

[Dig]

I'm not going to say it in big red caps, but I don't think this young man was a mind-controlled victim of MK Ultra.  I think he really may have been a real martyr.  We have some on planet Earth.  They are few and far between, and who is to say they do not necessarily represent the best part of humanity?

Was Ghandi a victim of mind-control, too?

If he was, sign me up.  Better yet, for my family's sake, don't.

I am not a young man any more.  I will leave idealism for them, but that is what I think he was -- an idealist.

Ghandi was not this guy, he would hardly ever even put himself into such a mess.

He was an American citizen which is exactly the profile like the Fort Hood CIA agent psychiatrist patsy an the Mumbai logistics planner and the times square patsy.

He does not have to be a robotic MKK Ultra victim, he could just be an asset that is continually lied to and handled. I am requesting a simple and cursory investigation. Wouldn't that be the best way to understand what happened?

Why not just check his fricking DARPA file?

[Dig]

sure. 

you know i speak from personal experience on this matter as no one is better than allowing their passion to stifle others than me

anyway, thanks for being cool about the slam.

[citizenx]

Ghandi was not this guy, he would hardly ever even put himself into such a mess.

He was an American citizen which is exactly the profile like the Fort Hood CIA agent psychiatrist patsy an the Mumbai logistics planner and the times square patsy.

He does not have to be a robotic MKK Ultra victim, he could just be an asset that is continually lied to and handled. I am requesting a simple and cursory investigation. Wouldn't that be the best way to understand what happened?

Why not just check his fricking DARPA file?

As a young man Ghandi was an extremely idealistic young soldier fighting for the Queen in the Boer war.  Who is to say Ghandi could not have been this young man?


We have no proof, indeed, he was lied to.  He may have well know the dangers of what he was doing.

[grapecrusher1]

From a firsthand account.

Attack came in three phases

A red laser dot appeared on his head, and seconds later he was shot dead. A member of the organisers rushed to his aid, only to have the man's brains spill out onto his hands.

This was the first death in the deadly attack on the Mavi Marmara — lead ship in the Freedom Flotilla carrying 700 aid workers, journalists and diplomats.

Israeli forces first attacked the ship 74 nautical miles from Gaza — six miles from the extended Israeli zone.

Israeli troops attacked the boat in three stages. The first attack came during dawn prayers when smoke bombs were thrown on deck. These were thrown overboard by the defence teams on board the ship.

The Mavi Marmara tried to alter its course so that any further attack would occur during daylight, but the Israelis persisted and boarded the ship. They used paintball guns on passengers — the ammunition mixed with glass.

Israeli troops tried to board the ship from speedboats and the defence teams used hose pipes to prevent soldiers from boarding the vessel.

Makeshift weapons were fashioned from items lying on the deck, but there were absolutely no weapons on board the ship, as Israel claims. As chaos and panic swept the boat the Israelis began stage two, using rubber bullets. Once blood started flowing, anger mounted against the Israelis.

In the third attack, the injuries turned to deaths. Four people were killed instantly while 12 others bled to death. Finally, the captain surrendered and agreed to take the Mavi Marmara to the Israeli port city of Ashdod after an Israeli soldier pointed a gun at a one-year-old Turkish child.

— Abbas Al Lawati has been freed. He left Amman, Jordan, for Muscat, Oman, and was scheduled to arrive late last night.

Abbas Al Lawati

http://www.zawya.com/story.cfm/sidGN_02062010_030601/3-Phase%20Attack

[Dig]

As a young man Ghandi was an extremely idealistic young soldier fighting for the Queen in the Boer war.  Who is to say Ghandi could not have been this young man?


We have no proof, indeed, he was lied to.  He may have well know the dangers of what he was doing.

Exactly we have no proof, thus an investigation is manated to find out what is in his DARPA file, what his FBI file looked like, what the SITE report looks like, what the Turkish "deep state" file is on him. Etc. etc.

Are youy saying that we should promote the obstruction of justice in this investigation?

[Dig]

"In the third attack, the injuries turned to deaths. Four people were killed instantly while 12 others bled to death. Finally, the captain surrendered and agreed to take the Mavi Marmara to the Israeli port city of Ashdod after an Israeli soldier pointed a gun at a one-year-old Turkish child."


May god have mercy on all of our souls. How did it ever get to this? A full investigation is mandated by everyone, this is complete insanity.

[chaosgods]

Again, this is the Brzezxiski program from the 1970's.

So you are saying that you suspect he was a victim of the Brzezinski initiative to create these cells for false flag terrorism?

that is a pretty bold statement.

dude i am so not that smart/knowledgeable o make that claim.
 but the videos on the net appear to show some people on the love boat.
with stuff that would not make it anywhere near an air port.

I guess my whole reason for jumping in in the first place was just to say don't believe all the Hype.
there are other ways for them to get supplies to the people in Gaza.
Makes me ? why they choose to do this Flotilla thing?
"
 He apparently was, in other words, a "birthright citizen," solely by virtue of the fact that his parents were residing in the U.S. when he was born."
OMG
did they just kill the future president of the U.S?

[citizenx]

Sane,

Should the government be able to investigate anybody without cause, when there is no evidence whatsoever they have committed a crime?

Is that really what you are suggesting?

There is no "probable cause" that this young man did anything wrong, unless getting shot in the head four times is a crime.

[Dig]

Sane,

Should the government be able to investigate anybody without cause, when there is no evidence whatsoever they have committed a crime?

Is that really what you are suggesting?

There is no "probable cause" that this young man did anything wrong, unless getting shot in the head four times is a crime.

probable cause?

he is dead.

what is in his DARPA file?

the 4th amendment is for humans who were given this right by god...NOT FOR UNCONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES!

you are saying that his DARPA file should be sealed, even now that he is dead?

why does DARPA even have a file on him? that alone is probable cause that he has government connections or that he was being monitored illegally by the government (without them proving probable cause to a judge).

[grapecrusher1]

From the Free Gaza site talking about admission by Israel of the sabotage of the other two boats (Challenger I and II) and this false report from Haaretz saying how the Rachel Corrie is scheduled to find port in Ashdod.


Sabotage on the High Sea

Written by Greta Berlin | 03 June 2010
Posted in News

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

(Cyprus, June 4, 2010) On Tuesday,, Colonel Itzik Tourgeman told the Knesset Defense and Foreign Affairs Committee on Tuesday that two more ships are on their way to try and break the naval blockade of Gaza. The head of research in the operations division said, "The ships have not reached their target as of today because covert action was taken against them." http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/187299

We had suspicions about our two boats, Challenger 1 and 2 and their mechanical problems as they sailed toward the flotilla, but we were not going to say anything unless we could prove it. Turns out we didn't have to prove it. Israeli mouthpieces did.

The Guardian ran a piece the same day, saying,

Israel gave strong indications today that its forces had secretly sabotaged some of the ships bound for Gaza as part of the freedom flotilla.

Matan Vilnai, the deputy defence minister, was asked on Israel Radio whether there had not been a smarter alternative to direct assault. He answered that "all possibilities had been considered," adding: "The fact is that there were less than the 10 ships that were due to participate in the flotilla."

An unnamed Israeli Defence Force source who briefed the Knesset's foreign affairs and defence committee on the widely criticised armed interception of the flotilla at sea, also spoke of "grey operations" being mounted against the flotilla."

We were lucky that our two captains were supurbly trained and able to offload the passengers safely.

So we are going to make sure the Rachel Corrie is well protected and that Israel is put on notice that anything that happens to her, the passengers and the crew will rest with Israel. As a result of these threats, we're going to pull Rachel Corrie into a port, add more high-profile people on board, and insist that journalists from around the world also come with us.

And sabotage happens with more than deeds. It also happens with words. In today's Haaretz, Barak Ravid reported,

"A diplomatic solution seems imminent to allow the humanitarian aid vessel the Rachel Corrie to dock without incident at the Ashdod Port. According to European diplomats and senior Foreign Ministry officials in Jerusalem, quiet messages have been exchanged over the past few days between Israel and the group operating the ship, to allow it to dock."

This, too, is sabotage in writing. We called Haaretz and the reporter. He did not return our call.

We have no intention nor would we ever have any intention of ever docking in Ashdod.

Contact: Greta Berlin 00 357 99 18 72 75

Mary Hughes, 00 357 96 38 38 09[/i]

[citizenx]

probable cause?

he is dead.

what is in his DARPA file?

the 4th amendment is for humans who were given this right by god...NOT FOR UNCONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES!

you are saying that his DARPA file should be sealed, even now that he is dead?

why does DARPA even have a file on him? that alone is probable cause that he has government connections or that he was being monitored illegally by the government (without them proving probable cause to a judge).

Why does DARPA have a right to have an investigatory file on any of us?  Or, is that your point?

They should ALL be destroyed.

I can't believe I am alone on this.

May he rest in peace.

[Viper]

..I can't believe I am alone on this...

Personally i've temporally lost the power of straight thought, the mods today let us do that much jumping around i gone done tired myself out, i say S deserves today's patriot trophy letting us all go nuts on the forum and all.