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Author Topic: 9 Killed/Hundreds Kidnapped by Israeli commandos who stormed Gaza Flotilla  (Read 90678 times)
citizenx
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« Reply #720 on: June 03, 2010, 06:58:55 AM »

There are reports some of these people were shot in the forehead execution style.

The UNHCR has already condemned these heinous acts, but the U.S. refuses to call for independent and impartial inquiries by international bodies, instead offically suggesting Israel investigate itself for possible crimes its military committed in international waters.

If it is found at some future time that Israel is involved in a cover-up of its criminal activities, the U.S. should be investigated as a co-conspirator.

Maybe, they could even take Barry's Peace Prize away.  Lord knows they should have done this already.
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Viper
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« Reply #721 on: June 03, 2010, 07:07:36 AM »

Misleading Photos Used by Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs to Justify Killing Activists

http://www.infowars.com/misleading-photos-used-by-israeli-ministry-of-foreign-affairs-to-justify-killing-activists/

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
June 2, 2010

If there is one constant about government it is this — they tell lies and fabricate propaganda in order to bamboozle their citizens. Israel is no exception.
In order to make the case that the Gaza aid flotilla consisted of terrorists — including al-Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah, never mind the absurdity — the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs has posted a number of photos on its Flickr page purporting to show weapons and military equipment supposedly found on the Mavi Marmara.

Several of the photos, however, were not taken on the ship as claimed. In fact, at least two of them were taken in 2006.

Israeli “Defense officials also say some activists had military-style gear such as bulletproof vests and night-vision goggles,” the Associated Press reports today.

EXIF data posted on the Flickr page reveals that both photos were taken in 2006. Digital cameras often save EXIF (Exchangeable Image File) data with the image file, including shutter speed, date and time, focal length, exposure compensation, metering pattern and if a flash was used. Ficklr as a matter of course mines this data and posts it on the page.


Bulletproof vests. See EXIF meta data on this image.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/4662343871/meta/


Night vision equipment. See EXIF meta data on this image.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/israel-mfa/4662343805/meta/

The corporate media often pegs internet journalists and bloggers as rank amateurs who have damaged the reputation of journalism and often spread conspiracy theories, lies, and disinformation. And yet the seasoned journalism professionals working the desks at the Associated Press were completely duped by the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs and its obviously bogus photos.

It was a French blogger going by the name of Ibn Kafka who discovered the EXIF data. The Political Theatrics blog translated his original post.

Digital cameras, of course, often do not have the time and date set correctly and this may be the case with the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs photos. Even so, the EXIF data should raise questions about the validity of the claims made by the Israeli government about what they found on the Mavi Marmara.

Don’t expect the Associated Press to do this. After all, they are basically script readers passing along official propaganda designed to dupe the masses and manufacture consent.

Governments tell pathological lies and it is the job of the corporate media to disseminate these lies.
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lovkarpin
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« Reply #722 on: June 03, 2010, 07:09:28 AM »

I don't get it nine or nineteen?

just reading this article from an Israeli news agency in hebrew http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/13/1682412 (page is fully hebrew)
cant find an article about it in english yet.

quick translation:
Flotilla participants: "IDF soldiers hid additional bodies"
"... according to "Reuters" news agency, a number of the activists who arrived earlier today in Turkey claims that more than 9 people were killed and the IDF hid additional bodies and destroyed forensic evidence from the ship"

so official story still says 9 were killed, and from what i gather only 9 bodies were sent to Turkey.
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Dok
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WWW
« Reply #723 on: June 03, 2010, 07:29:45 AM »

Israel rejects international investigation of raid

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Israel on Thursday rejected calls from the United Nations and others for an international investigation of its deadly raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla but left the door open to foreign involvement.

Israel says the commandos used force, killing nine people, only after activists attacked them with knives, crowbars and clubs, as well as two pistols grabbed from raiders. Activists who had set sail for Gaza with tons of aid, hoping to break Israel's 3-year-old blockade of Gaza, say Israeli commandos fired first.

Officials have insisted Israel's military already is investigating the raid and the country is capable of conducting a credible review.

"It is our standard practice after military operations, especially operations in which there have been fatalities, to conduct a prompt, professional, transparent and objective investigation in accordance with the highest international standards," government spokesman Mark Regev said.

Another official in the prime minister's office said there would be no separate international investigation. He spoke on condition of anonymity pending an official decision.

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, however, proposed attaching international observers to an internal Israeli probe.

He told the Ynet news website that he has proposed setting up a commission of inquiry, headed by a respected former Israeli Supreme Court judge. "If they'll ask to include foreign observers, we'll include them," Lieberman said.

A junior Cabinet member, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, went even further, saying, "an international commission of inquiry must be established because we have nothing to hide.

"We must quell world criticism," Ynet quoted Ben-Eliezer as telling fellow Labor Party ministers.

An inner Cabinet of ministers with security responsibilities must convene to discuss the matter.

Israel has refused to cooperate with previous international probes, most recently the U.N. investigation into Israel's 2009 war in the Gaza Strip that concluded that both the Israelis and Hamas militants, who control Gaza, committed war crimes.

Israel says the commission that ordered the probe has a record of anti-Israel conduct, and has rejected the investigation as fundamentally flawed.

The international outrage over the deaths on board the flotilla's lead ship, the Mavi Marmara, has sparked a wave of protests across the diplomatic world and condemnations by a sheaf of countries. South Africa became the latest country to recall its ambassador to Israel, although it stressed it has no intention of expelling the Israeli ambassador or cutting diplomatic ties with the Jewish state.

The raid has also provoked multiple demands for an international probe, and on Wednesday, U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon indicated he was headed in that direction.

In a strongly worded statement, the Arab League called the raid "state piracy and terrorism" and said it threatened regional stability and security. Arab foreign ministers also urged the U.N. Security Council to force Israel to lift the blockade.

Earlier this week, the 15-nation U.N Security Council called for a "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards" but stopped short of calling for an independent international investigation.

The U.S., as a member of the council, supported that statement. Washington's special Mideast envoy, who is in the region to mediate another round of indirect talks between Israelis and Palestinians, said the raid "underscores the need to make progress in negotiations to lead to a two-state solution."

"The tragedy of last week can not be allowed to spiral out of control and undermine the limited but real progress that has been made," envoy George Mitchell said Thursday at an investment conference in the West Bank city of Bethlehem.

The activists on the flotilla want to end Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip, imposed after the militant Hamas group violently seized power in the territory three years ago. Israel says the blockade is meant to keep weapons out of Gaza and to put pressure on its Hamas rulers to moderate. But weapons and other goods continue to reach Gaza through underground tunnels with Egypt and Gazans blame Israel, not Hamas, for their hardship.

The activists already have another small Gaza-bound ship in the Mediterranean, which expects to arrive in the region early next week, and say they are organizing a new flotilla of at least three aid ships to try to breach the blockade in early fall.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday labeled the criticism "hypocrisy" as he rejected calls to lift the blockade, insisting the ban prevents missile attacks on Israel.

"This was not the 'Love Boat,'" Netanyahu said in an address to the nation. "It was a hate boat."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME
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http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
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True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Viper
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« Reply #724 on: June 03, 2010, 07:31:26 AM »


"This was not the 'Love Boat,'" Netanyahu said in an address to the nation. "It was a hate boat."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME

Oink Oink.
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larsonstdoc
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« Reply #725 on: June 03, 2010, 08:39:02 AM »

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/03/AR2010060301931.html?hpid=topnews

Mike Rivero reported yesterday that 12 Americans were captured and 11 were released.  This must be the 12th man.

U.S. citizen was among those killed in Gaza flotilla raid



JERUSALEM -- An American citizen of Turkish origin was among the nine people killed in a botched Israeli effort to stop a Turkish aid ship from reaching the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip, a Turkish official said on Thursday.

THIS STORY
U.S. citizen was among those killed in Gaza flotilla raid
IN GAZA: Living, not thriving, in Gaza
Israel: At least 9 pro-Palestinian activists killed on Gaza flotilla carrying aid
View All Items in This Story
"It's a Turkish origin, American citizen. We know that,'' the official said by phone from Turkey, adding that more details were not yet available.

The nine bodies were flown home from Israel to Turkey on Wednesday, along with hundreds of activists, aboard a Turkish plane. Israel was not able to identify the bodies because the dead had no identification on them, Israeli officials said.

The killing of nine Turks has created enormous tensions in the relationship between Israel and Turkey.

Israel has come under widespread criticism following the operation, aimed at maintaining a blockade of Gaza. Israel accused the Turkish contingent of being part of a radical Islamic movement and showed video of passengers attacking naval commandos as they landed on board.

The Obama administration said Wednesday that it had warned Israel's government repeatedly to use "caution and restraint" with the half a dozen aid boats bound for Gaza before Israeli commandos raided the flotilla this week in the operation that killed nine people.

"We communicated with Israel through multiple channels many times regarding the flotilla," P.J. Crowley, a State Department spokesman, said in a statement issued in response to a question from The Washington Post. "We emphasized caution and restraint given the anticipated presence of civilians, including American citizens."

The acknowledgment shed new light on the administration's contact with the Israeli government before the Monday morning raid, which has inflamed international opinion against Israel and complicated President Obama's efforts to improve U.S. relations with the Islamic world. White House officials said Wednesday that there is a growing consensus within the administration that U.S. and Israeli policy toward Gaza must change, even as Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu flatly rejected calls for his country to lift its blockade of the Palestinian territory.



Netanyahu, addressing his nation Wednesday for the first time since the raid, angrily defended Israel from mounting international criticism over its use of force against the flotilla, which was carrying construction materials, medicine, school paper and other aid to Gaza when Israeli commandos set upon it in international waters.

Netanyahu called the criticism "hypocrisy" and described Gaza, where 1.5 million people live in a narrow slice of dunes and refugee camps between southern Israel and the sea, as "a terror state funded by the Iranians."

"The same countries that are criticizing us today should know that they will be targeted tomorrow," he said, just a day after Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called Israel's policy toward Gaza "unsustainable." "It's for this and for many other reasons we have a right to inspect cargo heading into Gaza,'' Netanyahu added.

The flotilla was organized by the Free Gaza Movement and a Turkish charity that Israeli officials say has connections to radical groups.
U.S. citizen was among those killed in Gaza flotilla raid

 




In an interview with Charlie Rose broadcast Wednesday night, Vice President Biden agreed that Israel had a right to inspect the cargo. "You can argue whether Israel should have dropped people onto that ship or not . . . but the truth of the matter is, Israel has a right to know -- they're at war with Hamas -- has a right to know whether or not arms are being smuggled in," he said.


At the same time, Biden acknowledged that the administration is trying to sway the Israeli government on the issue of Gaza, which has been under some form of an Israeli blockade for five years.

"We have put as much pressure and as much cajoling on Israel as we can to allow them to get building materials" and other designated humanitarian aid into Gaza, he said.

Michael Oren, the Israeli ambassador to Washington, said that although lifting the blockade is out of the question, Israel shares the administration's goal of improving civilian life in the Gaza Strip. "We are open to the discussion of how best to reconcile the civilian needs of the people of Gaza with Israel's very real security needs," he said in an interview.

The Israeli raid on the flotilla has focused international attention on Israel's closure policy and the mixed results it has achieved.

Israel withdrew its soldiers and settlements from Gaza in 2005 after a nearly four-decade presence in the strip. But it has maintained strict control over the coast and crossing points for goods arriving from Israel, which has come under frequent attack over the years from rockets fired by the Islamist movement Hamas and other armed groups at war with the Jewish state.

In 2007, after Hamas's violent takeover of the strip, Israel effectively closed it to all but a limited amount of humanitarian aid. The goal was to turn the public against Hamas, and prevent arms-making materials from entering. Israel has also linked lifting the blockade -- which includes a ban on nearly all exports from Gaza -- to the release of Gilad Shalit, an Israeli soldier Hamas captured in Israel in 2006.

But Israel has let several aid flotillas land at Gaza over the past two years, missions designed primarily to draw attention to the blockade. Before Monday's most ambitious attempt to run the blockade, Israel had turned back two previous flotillas and detained some participants for more than a week.



Israel said Wednesday that it had completed the deportation of the more than 700 activists detained after the raid. Most of them were flown to Turkey, which was Israel's chief Muslim ally in the region before the raid but has since withdrawn its ambassador.

The administration's acknowledgment that it warned Israel against using excessive force comes as White House officials have been meeting with Israeli diplomats and security officials to discuss how the blockade might be altered to allow more aid to enter Gaza without risking Israeli security.

White House officials said Obama has had several phone calls with Netanyahu since the incident, and national security adviser James L. Jones met with his Israeli counterpart for several hours this week.

A White House official briefed on those meetings said there is "a general sense in the administration that it's time to change our Gaza policy," although he would not elaborate on how the administration might change the way it engages an area controlled by a U.S.-designated terrorist organization.

The official said meetings have been held to explore "alternative approaches to dealing with ships who try to run the blockade, and to ensure the humanitarian aid reaches people in Gaza." The official added that "our militaries are in touch on this."

David Makovsky of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy said that discussion should focus on trimming the Israeli bans on many basic items for fear that they could be used for nefarious purposes. "It needs to be streamlined, so that everything is permitted unless it is forbidden, rather than everything is forbidden unless it is permitted," he said. "You have got to use common sense so that you just deny things that can be used for weapons."

Correspondent Janine Zacharia in Jerusalem contributed to this report.




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Viper
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« Reply #726 on: June 03, 2010, 09:57:08 AM »

But their powerless words were in vain
And the bombs fell down like acid rain
But through the tears and the blood and the pain
You can still hear that voice through the smoky haze

We Will not Go Down(Gaza)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkZEpJm-6Tc
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larsonstdoc
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« Reply #727 on: June 03, 2010, 10:12:21 AM »

But their powerless words were in vain
And the bombs fell down like acid rain
But through the tears and the blood and the pain
You can still hear that voice through the smoky haze

We Will not Go Down(Gaza)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkZEpJm-6Tc

Nice find Viper.  It is such a tragedy.
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Suriel
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« Reply #728 on: June 03, 2010, 10:21:12 AM »

Israel’s spin won’t work this time
http://mondoweiss.net/2010/06/israels-spin-wont-work-this-time.html
by Harsha Walia on June 2, 2010

As international outrage spreads at the Israeli elite commando attack on an unarmed humanitarian convey in the middle of the night on international waters, Israel is desperately trying to rebrand the incident as one of self-defence. It is nothing new for Israel, and other aggressing powers, to smear their victims as perpetrators. Afterall, unjustifiable murder is too jarring to stomach.

Yet, Amnesty International released a statement about Israel’s excessive use of force, further stating that Israel’s version of events begs credibility. Former Archbishop Desmond Tutu proclaimed the actions of Israel as “completely inexcusable”. According to Craig Murray, specialist on maritime law, “To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal.”

Deported activists tell a horrifying story of the use of electric shock, live ammunition, smoke bombs, gas canisters, beatings, and seizure of all evidence on cameras. Greek activist Michalis Grigoropoulos said, "They took us hostage, pointing guns at our heads…There was absolutely nothing we could do." A Turkish woman, with her 1 year old baby, recalls “The ship turned into a lake of blood.”

Israeli-Arab Knesset member Hanin Zoabi, who was on board, demanded an international inquiry: “It was clear from size of force that boarded ship that purpose was not to stop sail, but to cause largest number of fatalities to prevent future initiatives.” In contradiction of the carefully managed public relations campaign, a top Israeli Navy commander brags to the Jerusalem Post that “We boarded the ship and were attacked as if it was a war.” The names of the 10-19 dead, 60-80 injured, and hundreds detained have yet to be released.

Zoabi further stated that the passengers made clear they were non-confrontational, substantiated by live footage of a white flag raised shortly after the armed commandos descended from helicopters. Upon release from Israeli custody, two German parliamentarians also denied that the activists provoked the violence, though some had tried to stop the armed onslaught by using two wooden sticks. If that were not enough, custom officials in Greece confirmed that the boats were screened prior to departure and no weapons were aboard.

Even before the events of May 31, the Israeli government had publically warned that the Flotilla would be intercepted, even though the convoy would be entering from international waters in the Mediterranean and not from Israeli territory. An extensive May 25 article in the Jerusalem Post describes a campaign between the media, military, and government officials to “coordinate efforts to stop the flotilla and manage the potential media fallout.”

The Gaza Freedom Flotilla convoy was comprised of nine ships and 700 activists, politicians, journalists, Nobel laureates, and aid workers from 40 countries. An initiative that took almost two years of grassroots organization, they were bringing 10,000 tons of medical and humanitarian aid including toys, wheelchairs, construction supplies, paper, food, and medicines for Gaza's 1.5 million besieged residents.

Since 2007, Israel has imposed a tight blockade on Gaza: maintaining control of airspace, waters, and land crossings; disallowing residents to leave without permits; and prohibition on imports and exports including food, fuel, and medical supplies. The result has been catastrophic: 70% of Gazans live on under $1 a day, 60% have no daily access to water, only 23 of 3,900 industrial enterprises are operational. This constitutes collective punishment of an entire civilian population and condemns them to an open-air prison, leading the UN to call the siege ‘medieval’.

One of the justifications for the siege is the violence inflicted by Palestinian fighters. Palestinians live under occupation and lack any effective military capabilities. According to UN statistics, from 2000-2008, the Israeli military killed 2677 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. In the same period, 11 Israelis were killed by Palestinian home-made rockets. During the bombings of Gaza in 2008-2009, over 1400 Palestinians and five Israelis were killed. While these numbers are clearly asymmetrical, a focus on violence alone obscures the reality of the occupation of Palestine since 1948. UN Special Rapporteur John Dugard has stated that acts committed against a military occupation may not be justifiable but must be understood not as mindless acts of terror but as “a painful but inevitable consequence of colonialism, apartheid or occupation."

Though Stephen Harper shamelessly rolled out the red carpet for Benjamin Netanyahu; UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk has called on the world to act: “It is essential that those Israelis responsible for this lawless and murderous behavior, including political leaders who issued the orders, be held criminally accountable for their wrongful acts. It is time to insist on the end of the blockade of Gaza. The worldwide campaign of boycott, divestment, and sanctions against Israel is now a moral and political imperative.”

Standing up to one of the worlds most powerful state’s - who possesses nuclear capabilities, one of the largest militaries, has repeatedly rebuked international law, and continues an immoral occupation - hundreds of thousands of people have spilled onto the streets in every continent. Spain, Sweden, Greece, Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey have recalled their ambassadors to Israel. Perhaps most poignantly, human rights activists in South Africa called the deadly raid ‘Israel's Sharpeville’ with a bold reminder that “the desperation of the oppressor is an indication of the beginning of freedom for the oppressed.”

Harsha Walia is a South Asian activist and writer, formally trained in the law, who is based in Vancouver, Canada. This article originally appeared as an op-ed in the major daily Vancouver Sun.
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"We have reached a stage at which we have surrounded ourselves with more things, but have less joy." - The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsky translated by Ignat Avsey
Suriel
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« Reply #729 on: June 03, 2010, 10:37:14 AM »

Israel’s Defenders Mobilize, Threaten
http://original.antiwar.com/lobe/2010/06/02/israels-defenders-mobilize-threaten/
by Jim Lobe, June 03, 2010

Faced with what the Wall Street Journal calls "one of Israel’s worst international relations disasters in years," the right-wing leadership of the so-called "Israel Lobby" has been pulling out all the stops to defend the Jewish state against global outrage over its deadly seizure of a Gaza-bound vessel in international waters carrying humanitarian supplies early Monday morning.

Its biggest concern for now is to prevent the administration of President Barack Obama from distancing itself in any way — let alone joining in the almost universal condemnation — from the military operation in which at least nine civilian passengers of Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara were killed by Israeli commandos.

"As the international community is engaged in a biased rush to judgment against Israel and a diplomatic lynching, now is the time for the United States to firmly stand with the Jewish state and its people," said Abraham Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), Wednesday.

"The U.S. must show the world that it not only supports Israel’s right to defend its borders and citizens against terrorism, but that it supports Israel’s right to protect itself from people who pretend to be ‘peace activists,’ and parade under the guise of humanitarians while supporting Hamas and violently attacking Israeli military personnel," he added.

Indeed, even after Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s spokesman publicly thanked Washington for its efforts to "water down" a statement by the president of the U.N. Security Council issued early Tuesday morning, hard- line neo-conservatives complained bitterly that Obama had betrayed its closest ally by not vetoing it.

"So why did we agree to the presidential statement?" asked Elliott Abrams, former President George W. Bush’s top Middle Eastern aide, in an article entitled "Joining the Jackals".

"The White House did not wish to stand with Israel against this mob [of Security Council members who condemned the Israeli attack] because it does not have a policy of solidarity with Israel," Abrams, who is now based at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), wrote for the neo-conservative Weekly Standard. "…t would have been simple to stop the mob had the White House wanted to." [Emphasis in the original.]

Some neo-conservatives, whose worldview is closely aligned to that of Netanyahu’s Likud Party, even suggested that Obama’s failure to unconditionally defend Israel in its hour of need could well make the Jewish state take even more aggressive action in the future.

"If Obama decides it is in America’s interest to make an example of Israel after the Gaza flotilla incident in order to win goodwill in Cairo, Beirut, Tehran, and Ankara," warned Michael Rubin of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), "then he must also recognize that the leadership in Jerusalem is going to conclude that it cannot trust the United States to safeguard its security, and that therefore it must take matters into its own hands on any number of issues, not the least of which is Iran’s nuclear program."

In effect, if the White House decides to come down hard on Israel now," he added in National Review Online, "it is the same as giving a green light for Israel to strike Iran."

That threat was echoed in a remarkable column published by the neo-conservative Wall Street Journal Tuesday in which the author, Ronen Bergman of Israel’s Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper, argued that the operation itself was "irresponsible" and evidence that a "siege mentality" — based on the belief that world opinion is irreversibly hostile to the Jewish state — had taken hold of the country and its governing elite.

Citing Iran’s nuclear program, Bergman argued that such an "unhealthy" mindset "is profoundly disturbing when the fatigued and isolated country itself has the means to strike preemptively and punishingly at its enemies, including in ways from which, realistically, there may be no return."

While neo-conservatives were warning darkly about the geo- political consequences for the administration of any distancing from Israel’s position, the Lobby’s leaders and their friends in Congress focused more on defending Israel’s version of the pre-dawn incident that took place Monday some 100 kms off Gaza’s coast.

They insisted, among other things, that the Israeli commandos who carried out the operation, armed only with paintball rifles and handguns, acted in self-defense after coming under attack from passengers brandishing iron bars, knives, and other crude weapons.

"Israeli soldiers had every right to defend their lives against a lynch mob attacking them with knives and clubs," said Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the top Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Based primarily on a short video distributed by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), this version of events, including the weapons involved on both sides, has been called into question by the testimony of many of the 600 some passengers. After being towed to Israel and held incommunicado for some 24 hours, they were deported Wednesday.

It also failed to take into account the right of self- defense of those aboard a vessel that came under attack in international waters. "This is like a carjacker complaining to the police that the driver bashed him with a crowbar that was under the seat," noted M.J. Rosenberg, a Middle East analyst at Media Matters.

Israel’s defenders have also tried to focus media and public attention on what they have called the "terrorist-linked, radical Islamic" group that reportedly bought the Mavi Marmara, the Turkish-based Insani Yardim Vakfi, or IHH, and helped sponsor the flotilla of eight vessels that set out to breach Israel’s three-year-old blockade of Gaza.

According to a release put out Monday by the powerful American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a declassified report by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) after 9/11 named the IHH "as part of 15 organizations that employed members or otherwise the facilitate the activities of terrorist groups — INCLUDING al-Qaeda."

Another AIPAC release cited testimony by a "famed French counter-terrorism investigator" that the IHH had played "[a]n important role in the al-Qaeda Millennium bomb plot" that targeted Los Angeles International Airport.

But, while the IHH appears to have played a role in recruiting fighters in the Bosnia and Chechnya conflicts in the mid-1990s when the CIA report was written, it currently carries out relief operations in more than 100 countries, including Haiti and a number of African countries, as well as in Gaza, the New York Times reported Tuesday. And, aside from an assortment of sticks and kitchen knives, no weapons were found aboard any of the ships seized by Israel.

Similar talking points, however, were deployed by The Israel Project (TIP), another right-wing Zionist group that mobilized its members to write emails to lawmakers and media outlets in their area calling on them to stand by Israel. In the space of two hours Tuesday afternoon, the Washington bureau of IPS received nearly 20 emails from TIP members in support of Israel’s version of the incident.


(Inter Press Service)
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« Reply #730 on: June 03, 2010, 10:45:07 AM »

America’s Complicity in Evil
http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2010/06/02/americas-complicity-in-evil/
by Paul Craig Roberts, June 03, 2010

As I write at 5pm on Monday, May 31, all day has passed since the early morning reports of the Israeli commando attack on the unarmed ships carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza, and there has been no response from President Obama except to say that he needed to learn "all the facts about this morning’s tragic events" and that Israeli prime minister Netanyahu had canceled his plans to meet with him at the White House.

Thus has Obama made America complicit once again in Israel’s barbaric war crimes.

Just as the US Congress voted to deep-six Judge Goldstone’s report on Israel’s war crimes committed in Israel’s January 2009 invasion of Gaza, Obama has deep-sixed Israel’s latest act of barbarism by pretending that he doesn’t know what has happened.

No one in the world will believe that Israel attacked ships in international waters carrying Israeli citizens, a Nobel Laureate, elected politicians, and noted humanitarians bringing medicines and building materials to Palestinians in Gaza, who have been living in the rubble of their homes without repairs or medicines since January 2009, without first clearing the crime with its American protector. Without America’s protection, Israel, a totally artificial state, could not exist.

No one in the world will believe that America’s spy apparatus did not detect the movement of the Israeli attack force toward the aid ships in international waters in an act of piracy, killing 20, wounding 50, and kidnapping the rest.

Obama’s pretense at ignorance confirms his complicity.

Once again, the US government has permitted the Israeli state to murder good people known for their moral conscience. The Israeli state has declared that anyone with a moral conscience is an enemy of Israel, and every American president except Eisenhower and Carter has agreed.

Obama’s 12-hour silence in the face of extreme barbarity is his signal to the controlled corporate media to remain on the sidelines until Israeli propaganda sets the story.

The Israeli story, preposterous as always, is that the humanitarians on one of the ships took two pistols from Israeli commandos, highly trained troops armed with automatic weapons, and fired on the attack force. The Israeli government claims that the commandos’ response (70 casualties at last reporting) was justified self-defense.  Israel was innocent. Israel did not do anything except drop commandos aboard from helicopters in order to intercept an arms shipment to Gazans being brought in by ships manned by terrorists.

Many Christian evangelicals, brainwashed by their pastors that it is God’s will for Americans to protect Israel, will believe the Israeli story, especially when it is unlikely they will ever hear any other. Conservative Americans, especially on Memorial Day when they are celebrating feats of American arms, will admire Israel for its toughness.

Here in north Georgia, where I am at the moment, I have heard several say, admiringly,  "Them Israelis, they don’t put up with nuthin’."

Conservative Americans want the US to be like Israel. They do not understand why the US doesn’t stop pissing around after nine years and just go ahead and defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan.  They don’t understand why the US didn’t defeat whoever was opposing American forces in Iraq. Conservatives are incensed that America had to "win" the war by buying off the Iraqis and putting them on the US payroll.

Israel murders people and then blames its victims. This appeals to American conservatives, who want the US to do the same.

It is likely that Americans will accept Israeli propagandist Mark Regev’s story that Israelis were met by deadly fire when they tried to intercept an arms shipment to Palestinian terrorists from IHH, a radical Turkish Islamist organization hiding under the cover of humanitarian aid. This explanation is crafted to allow Americans to sink back into their stupor.

Americans will never hear from the US media that Turkey’s prime minister Erdogan declared that the aid ships were carefully inspected before departure from Turkey and that there were no terrorists or arms aboard:

"I want to say to the world, to the heads of state and the governments, that these boats that left from Turkey and other countries were checked in a strict way under the framework of the rules of international navigation and were only loaded with humanitarian aid."

Turkey is a US ally, a member of NATO. Turkey’s cooperation is important to American’s plan for world hegemony. Turkey now realizes that the Israeli state is comprised of total evil. Erdogan must wonder about the morality of Israel’s American protector. According to a report in Antiwar.com, the Turkish government declared that "future aid ships will be dispatched with a military escort so as to prevent future Israeli attacks."

Will the CIA assassinate Erdogan or pay the Turkish military to overthrow him?

Murat Mercan, head of Turkey’s foreign relations committee, said that Israel’s claim that there were terrorists aboard the aid ships was Israel’s way of covering up its crime. Mercan declared:

"Any allegation that the members of this ship is attached to al-Qaeda is a big lie because there are Israeli civilians, Israeli authorities, Israeli parliamentarians on board the ship."

The criminal Israeli state does not deny its act of piracy. Israeli military spokeswoman Avital Leibovich confirmed that the attack took place in international waters: "This happened in waters outside of Israeli territory, but we have the right to defend ourselves."

Americans, and their Western European puppet states and the puppet state in Canada, will be persuaded by the servile media to buy the story fabricated by Israeli propaganda that the humanitarian aid ships were manned by terrorists bringing weapons to the Palestinians in Gaza, and that the terrorists posing as humanitarians attacked the force of Israeli commandos with two pistols, clubs, and knives.

The ignorant Americans will swallow this story without a hiccup.
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« Reply #731 on: June 03, 2010, 10:49:35 AM »

Israeli Groups Condemn Government's Violence
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/70/515/Israeli_Groups_Condemn_Governments_Violence.html
Contributed by Econdemocracy (Reporter)
Monday, May 31, 2010 7:46

Gush Shalom, one of a number of grassrootes Israeli organization for peace with security and human rights for all, issued the following press release today following the violent and deadly assault by Israeli troops against the humanitarian aid ships:

A GOVERNMENT OF PYROMANICS SETS FIRE TO THE REGION

Uri Avnery: "This night a crime was perpetrated in the middle of the
sea, by order of the government of Israel and the IDF Command

A warlike attack against aid ships and deadly shooting at peace and
humanitarian aid activists

It is a crazy thing that only a government that crossed all red lines can do.

"Only a crazy government that has lost all restraint and all
connection to reality could something like that - consider ships
carrying humanitarian aid and peace activists from around the world as
an enemy and send massive military force to international waters to
attack them, shoot and kill.

"Noone in the world will believe the lies and excuses which the
government and army spokesmen come up with," said former Knesset
member Uri Avnery of the Gush Shalom movement. Gush Shalom activists
together with activists of other organizations demonstrated on this
very day in Ashdod, Tel-Aviv, Haifa and Jerusalem.

This is a day of disgrace to the State of Israel, a day of anxiety in
which we discover that our future was entrusted to a bunch of
trigger-happy people without any responsibility. This day is a day of
disgrace and madness and stupidity without limit, the day the Israeli
government took care to blacken the name of the country in the world,
adding convincing evidence of aggressiveness and brutality to Israel's
already bad international image, discouraging and distancing the few
remaining friends.

Indeed, today a provocation took place off the coast of Gaza - but the
provocateurs were not the peace activists invited by the Palestinians
and seeking to reach Gaza. The provocation was carried out by Navy
ships commandos at the bidding of the Israeli government, blocking the
way of the aid boats and using deadly force.

It is time to lift the siege on the Gaza Strip, which causes severe
suffering to its residents. Today the Israeli government ripped the
mask of its face with its own hands and exposed the fact that Israel
did not "disengage" from Gaza. Real disengagement from the area does
not go together with blocking the access to it or sending soldiers to
shoot and kill and wound those who try to get there.

The State of Israel promised in the Oslo Accords 17 years ago to
enable and encourage the establishment of a deep water port in Gaza,
through which Palestinians could import and export freely to develop
their economy. It's time to realize this commitment and open the Port
of Gaza. Only after the Gaza port will be open to free and undisturbed
movement, just like the Ashdod and Haifa ports, will Israel really
have disengaged from the Gaza Strip. Until then, the world will
continue - and rightly so - to consider the Gaza Strip under Israeli
occupation and the State of Israel as responsible for the fate of the
people living there.
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« Reply #732 on: June 03, 2010, 10:54:05 AM »

Ankara still waiting on final tally of flotilla casualties
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1560195.php/Ankara-still-waiting-on-final-tally-of-flotilla-casualties
Jun 2, 2010, 10:31 GMT

Istanbul - Turkish officials Wednesday said they are still waiting for a final account of how many of its citizens were injured or killed in Monday's Israeli commando raid on an aid flotilla heading to Gaza.

So far, some 20 injured Turks have been transported back to Turkey, but officials said they are waiting for word on how many other injured are still in Israel.

Of the nine killed in the raid, four have so far been positively identified as Turks. Turkish officials were not able to release their names.

The Israeli action has led to worldwide condemnation and to a severe strain in the once-close ties between Turkey and Israel.

Turkish officials have called for international action against Israel. In a speech in parliament yesterday, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Israel of committing a 'massacre' and warned it not to 'test Turkey's patience.'
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« Reply #733 on: June 03, 2010, 11:08:26 AM »

Alex says the terrorist attack was wrong and it was a debacle, i say it be no different that wako.
I say it needs the AJ spotlight shone on it immediately and enough of these mossad agents on the show.
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« Reply #734 on: June 03, 2010, 11:58:02 AM »

AJ is right it ain't about the israelis or the aid crew, but what it is about is that we must never accept such nekid terrorism in our faces ever, someone done it, it didn't happen itself, someone must be blamed, and exposed.
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« Reply #735 on: June 03, 2010, 12:08:10 PM »

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=hamas-refuses-israel8217s-delivery-of-flotilla-supplies-2010-06-03

Hamas refuses Israel’s delivery of flotilla supplies



Thursday, June 3, 2010
CAIRO – Bloomberg
Hamas refused Thursday to accept an Israeli delivery of at least 20 truckloads of humanitarian aid from the flotilla of ships that commandos intercepted in a raid that left nine people dead.

The group said it was waiting for instructions from the Turkish government on whether to accept the supplies.

Hamas officials in the Gaza Strip and Israel’s Defense Ministry said Thursday the cargo, including medical supplies, clothing, blankets and toys, was held up at the Kerem Shalom crossing after being brought 38 kilometers south from the port in Ashdod.

Hamas said it would not take the aid because Israel confiscated some of the supplies and was still holding some of the more than 700 passengers involved in the May 31 attempt to break Israel’s naval blockade of Gaza.

Israel said last night it had expelled all foreigners from the ships except for seven who are hospitalized. It is also detaining an Israeli Arab religious leader who may be prosecuted.

Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States and the European Union.

“The government decided not to receive any aid until the occupation releases all those who are held,” Ahmed al-Kurd, the Hamas minister for social welfare, said in a telephone interview from his office in Gaza City. “We will accept all of the aid or none of it.”

The Israeli Defense Ministry unit that coordinates civilian issues with the Palestinian Authority said it had checked the flotilla cargo for weapons and other prohibited materials before delivering it to Gaza.

Israel is “acting in coordination with international aid organizations operating in the Gaza Strip which are waiting for the transfer of the cargo on the other side of the border,” the Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories said in a statement posted on the Defense Forces website.

Al-Kurd said Hamas was waiting for instructions from the Turkish government on whether to accept the supplies. “We will wait for a Turkish green light to receive the aid because this flotilla was flying the Turkish flag,” he said. “Once it decides we should take the aid, we will take it.”

The pro-Palestinian activists were attempting to sail into Gaza, which has been under Israeli blockade since the Islamic Hamas movement took full control of the territory in 2007. A seventh ship has sailed for Gaza to try and breach the Israeli blockade.

Egypt temporarily eased its own blockade on the Gaza Strip yesterday to allow trucks of food and other supplies to cross the border and more than 600 Palestinians to leave, according to Palestinian border officials.

The Israeli raid on the ships has led to condemnation throughout the world. The United Nations Human Rights Council adopted a resolution to authorize an independent international investigation of the raid. The U.S., the Netherlands and Italy voted against the measure.

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« Reply #736 on: June 03, 2010, 12:12:21 PM »

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turk-israel-ties-suffer-fatal-blow-amid-hope-on-gaza-blockade-2010-06-03


Global ire shifts to Gaza blockade after Israeli raid on aid flotilla

ANKARA - Hürriyet Daily News
The relationship between Turkey and Israel, once regional allies, incurred irreparable damage from the aid-ship attack, but hopes are rising that the incident could lead to the removal of the blockade on Hamas-controlled Gaza. Diplomatic observers say the first thing that should be done is to carry out a credible, impartial investigation into the deaths


Hopes that the blockade against the besieged Gaza Strip may soon be lifted have been bolstered in the wake of the deadly Israeli attack on a flotilla seeking to deliver humanitarian aid to the area.

The possibility for this positive consequence to come out of the tragic incident does not mean, however, that bilateral Turkish-Israeli ties will return to normal, Ankara said Tuesday.

“The future of relations depends on Israel’s behavior and ties will not be restored unless an international probe is launched into what has happened in international waters, its results are implemented by Israel and the blockade on Gaza is lifted,” Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said.



Diplomatic observers say it is too early to come to a conclusion about the longer-term implications of the emotional and rapidly changing situation created by Monday’s raid.

“The most important thing for now is to ensure international action that brings about a full, credible and impartial international investigation into the events,” a Western diplomat who wished to remain anonymous told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review.

“The blockade has to be lifted in line with U.N. Security Council Resolution No. 1860,” the diplomat added. “As a regional leader, but also a country directly affected by recent events, Turkey has a unique role in working with others to encourage a coherent international response.”

Turkey is pressing the international community for an impartial, independent inquiry into the incident, which killed nine people, eight of them Turks. Ankara has dismissed the prospects for an Israeli probe, while demanding the lifting of the blockade on Gaza as a condition for normalizing relations.

Not all observers, however, agree that this will be easy – or even desirable – to do.

“I don’t think the incident will help break the Gaza blockade, but it might reshape its format and change policy regarding the land blockade,” said Israeli journalist Chico Menashe. “The maritime blockade is a security blockade that showed huge justification when Israel caught the Francop ship last November, for example. The ship was loaded with tons of weapons and missiles. Further ships coming freely into Gaza might worsen the security situation in the region.”

According to Menashe, there is a significant difference between the maritime blockade and the blockade on land crossings between Gaza and Israel/Egypt. He said the land blockade is political and much more problematic, as its goal seems more to weaken Hamas’ ability to govern Gaza. Changes in the blockade policy might danger deeply Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas’ position, Menashe said.

“And still, although the U.S. supported the Israeli blockade in order to keep Abbas’ position, we hear today voices from the [U.S.] administration about rethinking the blockade issue,” the Israeli journalist added.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has demanded that Israel immediately lift its blockade of the Gaza Strip and indicated he may eventually launch his own probe of the raid. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has hotly rejected calls to lift the blockade on Hamas-ruled Gaza, insisting it prevents missile attacks on Israel and labeling worldwide criticism of his navy’s bloody raid as “hypocrisy.”

According to senior American officials, the Obama administration considers Israel’s blockade of Gaza to be untenable and plans to press for another approach to ensure Israel’s security while allowing more supplies into the impoverished Palestinian area.

Rift in Turk-Israel ties

In the wake of the Israeli offensive, Turkey, a non-permanent member of the U.N. Security Council, called for an urgent meeting. Diplomatic sources said an Israeli representative also joined the U.N. session upon request. The Turkish delegation, led by Davutoğlu, reportedly left the room in protest once the Israeli representative began his address.

“This is a worst-case scenario for the United States,” said an observer. “One [party] is its traditional ally – Israel – and the other a NATO ally. The two falling out with each other is a nightmare for Washington.”

A diplomat who accompanied Davutoğlu on the plane and heard his phone conversation with Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak told the Daily News it was a very serious talk. Barak called two or three times following the Israeli attack as the Turkish minister’s plane changed course, going from Brazil to New York, the diplomat said.

“You cannot intercept the ships in international waters. This is tantamount to sea piracy. Release the ships at once and return the passengers,” Davutoğlu told Barak, who reportedly responded, “We’ll take care of the injured.”

“We’ll not even leave an injured person in a country that has behaved that way,” the Turkish foreign minister responded. “Turkey is not like any other country.”

The deaths of Turkish civilian in international waters have brought the already-strained relationship between Turkey and Israel to a breaking point, with both President Abdullah Gül, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and other government officials saying relations with Israel would never be the same again.

“As long as the combination is an Erdoğan-led Turkey and an Israeli right-wing government in power, there’s no chance in the near future that Turkey will change its strategic decision to isolate Israel, and to strengthen its bond with Hamas, Syria and Iran,” journalist Menashe said.

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« Reply #737 on: June 03, 2010, 12:20:00 PM »




Mr. mossad al caida is cia.

Alex jones "palestine is the mecca for terrorism"
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« Reply #738 on: June 03, 2010, 12:26:03 PM »




Mr. mossad al caida is cia.

Alex jones "palestine is the mecca for terrorism"


Thanks for your reports Viper. 
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« Reply #739 on: June 03, 2010, 12:27:35 PM »




Mr. mossad al caida is cia.

Alex jones "palestine is the mecca for terrorism"



AJ is absolutely correct, except the terrorism wasn't a problem until Israel was invented right on top of Palestine.
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« Reply #740 on: June 03, 2010, 12:33:29 PM »

AJ is absolutely correct, except the terrorism wasn't a problem until Israel was invented right on top of Palestine.

There was no Palestine. Just as there was no Iran, Iraq or Trans-Jordan. Ther land occupied by Israel today was mostly bought and paid for from the Ottoman Empire.
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« Reply #741 on: June 03, 2010, 12:41:10 PM »

AJ is absolutely correct, except the terrorism wasn't a problem until Israel was invented right on top of Palestine.

Washington is the Mecca.
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« Reply #742 on: June 03, 2010, 12:43:06 PM »

 Cheesy This is ridiculous, Mr. mossad believes the terrorist attack wasn't pre-meditated, AJ believes the same.
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« Reply #743 on: June 03, 2010, 12:48:37 PM »

Cheesy This is ridiculous, Mr. mossad believes the terrorist attack wasn't pre-meditated, AJ believes the same.

At least his allegiance is well exposed with the USS Liberty talk.  AJ should have held his feet to the fire a little more though.

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« Reply #744 on: June 03, 2010, 12:59:03 PM »

Good old Cynthia McKinney telling the facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfLU77ctH8&feature=player_embedded#!
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« Reply #745 on: June 03, 2010, 01:00:42 PM »


The whole truth keep you clean, refreshes the soul.
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« Reply #746 on: June 03, 2010, 01:03:06 PM »

There was no Palestine. Just as there was no Iran, Iraq or Trans-Jordan. Ther land occupied by Israel today was mostly bought and paid for from the Ottoman Empire.

They called it Palestine for a reason.

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« Reply #747 on: June 03, 2010, 01:09:25 PM »

They called it Palestine for a reason.

http://www.judaicaheaven.com/catalog/JP117small.jpg

Yup the reason was Roman Propaganda

That anyone falls for Black Propaganda that is roughly 2,000 years old is laughable.
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« Reply #748 on: June 03, 2010, 01:10:56 PM »

The jewish religion was made up about 400bc.
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« Reply #749 on: June 03, 2010, 01:12:10 PM »

The jewish religion was made up about 400bc.

 Cheesy what a joke. wow.
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« Reply #750 on: June 03, 2010, 01:13:16 PM »

You terrorism apologists i feel the same.
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« Reply #751 on: June 03, 2010, 01:13:48 PM »

More details of the American killed.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/06/03/meet-the-19-year-old-american-killed-in-the-flotilla-attack/

But the dead now have names and faces and one turns out to be a nineteen-year-old American: Furkan Dogan.

Dogan is alleged to have been shot with five bullets, four in the head.


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« Reply #752 on: June 03, 2010, 01:18:10 PM »

You terrorism apologists i feel the same.

wow, read up on some history will ya.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #753 on: June 03, 2010, 01:18:31 PM »

Yup the reason was Roman Propaganda

That anyone falls for Black Propaganda that is roughly 2,000 years old is laughable.


Interesting that at the time the Jews who promoted tourism to "Palestine" weren't promoting it as tourism to Israel.
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« Reply #754 on: June 03, 2010, 01:24:25 PM »

Cheesy what a joke. wow.

Dok, I am true to my screen name on this one..A few questions...we are gentiles, they are Jews,the Indians are about wiped out..Why? why? would The creator of all things, care that the Jews might get wiped out...I know Christ was dubbed king of them..as a race, why is he more concerned with them being wiped out, than the Indians of this land?  questions like this make me wonder, what all, that book of books is trying to tell us.....Just your opinion will more than likely help me on this...But if you want to quote some scripture that may pertain to the question.That may help me also......thanks in advance.
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« Reply #755 on: June 03, 2010, 01:33:23 PM »

It is hard to say who is right or not in this case.

My head hurts with I think about the whole Middle East.

Overall, it is hard for me to trust any group of people who don't "allow" other religions to pray in their countries "free willingly" like the Israelis does when Israel isn't in "lock down" during times of war.

You can be Jewish, Christian, and Muslim in Israel and pray freely in Israel.

Can you say that about Islamic Republics in The Middle East?
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« Reply #756 on: June 03, 2010, 01:37:55 PM »

Facts are neutral, forget about right and wrong for a second and consider what half the world has witnessed in the last few days.

Never mind who done it for now, we must concentrate on who ordered it, and above all we must be outraged and never stand still for this kinda terrorism or the bs stories put out to cover for it, ya, terrorism is fine the msm tells us, we must accept it, BULLSHIT!
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« Reply #757 on: June 03, 2010, 01:40:34 PM »

Facts are neutral, forget about right and wrong for a second and consider what half the world has witnessed in the last few days.

Never mind who done it for now, we must concentrate on who ordered it, and above all we must be outraged and never stand still for this kinda terrorism or the bs stories put out to cover for it, ya, terrorism is fine the msm tells us, we must accept it, BULLSHIT!

Terrorism seems to be in the eye of the beholder..The government seems to be the beholder.

I am sure The Indian savages were terrorist, They Just used the word savage instead.
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« Reply #758 on: June 03, 2010, 01:41:20 PM »

No excuse for this slaughter.

From what i have been reading religious beliefs are taking the forefront. That depresses me, I agree that zealots are in the forefront of many an action.
Fn lunacy, I remember as a kid the catholics and protestants fighting, brawling, simply over their religiuos brand!

Ya this is a step beyond, how long have the jews and muslims been at it!!! TILL this very day.

What happened here was not simply religion differences for FK sake, lets not go there!!!!!!!!


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« Reply #759 on: June 03, 2010, 01:41:39 PM »

Facts are neutral, forget about right and wrong for a second and consider what half the world has witnessed in the last few days.

Never mind who done it for now, we must concentrate on who ordered it, and above all we must be outraged and never stand still for this kinda terrorism or the bs stories put out to cover for it, ya, terrorism is fine the msm tells us, we must accept it, BULLSHIT!
I concur.
This thread is about the flotilla attack and disputes of historic relevance should be posted elsewhere.
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