PrisonPlanet Forum
May 24, 2013, 09:19:19 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New Evidence Implicates US For Cheonan (S. Korean Ship) Explosion in FF  (Read 9937 times)
Optimus
Globalist Destroyer
Global Moderator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,094


The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!


WWW
« on: May 29, 2010, 08:35:38 AM »

New Evidence Implicates US For Cheonan Explosion
http://www.hamsayeh.net/hamsayehnet_iran-international%20news1283.htm

The new technical assessment concludes the deadly explosion was caused by a US manufactured rising sea mine during the military drill.

May 29, 2010 (Hamsayeh.Net) - Overwhelming evidence now implicate the United States for the sinking of a South Korean military vessel on March 26 in the Yellow Sea.

An independent investigation conducted by Chinese and international team has revealed that a US rising sea mine caused the deadly blast and not a North Korean fired torpedo.

It was during the Sino-U.S. strategic talks last week in China when the Chinese side rejected South Korean and American claim of a North Korean torpedo as the cause of blast on the ship named Cheonan taking part in a joint military exercise. Following the incident South Korean government of Lee Myung-bak and US censored all other independent reports whereby telling only their own version of events.

The new technical assessment concludes the deadly explosion was caused by a US manufactured rising sea mine during the military drill. The report said it should have been impossible for a North Korean submarine to be present in the area without being detected by either US or South Korean forces.

It also said on March 26 a US mine-laying ship called Salvo was strangely present in the area. The Salvo was included in exercises and its mission was to lay sea mines secretly, the report revealed.  According to evidence the blast ripped the ship into two neat pieces a sign that indicates an explosion by a sea mine-like device.

A torpedo explosion involves puncturing a target's outer shield creating a sudden fire and smoke similar to what we see in movies. Moreover, the supposed propeller belonging to a North Korean torpedo presented as evidence by South Korean investigation team showed no sign of damage.

The truth is when a torpedo traveling at 40-50 knots per hour hits a target all its parts including drive shaft system and propeller would be shattered or bent by the high-powered blast.

Analysts say South Korean and US engagements in a media cover up of this friendly fire incident would constitute fraud, perjury and possibly treason.
Logged

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<<
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 08:47:42 AM »

Quote
According to evidence the blast ripped the ship into two neat pieces

What?? That didnt happen.

Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Optimus
Globalist Destroyer
Global Moderator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,094


The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!


WWW
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 08:48:11 AM »

Beijing suspects false flag attack on South Korean corvette
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_5930.shtml
By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer

May 28, 2010

(WMR) -- WMR's intelligence sources in Asia suspect that the March attack on the South Korean Navy anti-submarine warfare (ASW) corvette, the Cheonan, was a false flag attack designed to appear as coming from North Korea.

One of the main purposes for increasing tensions on the Korean peninsula was to apply pressure on Japanese Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama to reverse course on moving the U.S. Marine Corps base off Okinawa. Hatoyama has admitted that the tensions over the sinking of the Cheonan played a large part in his decision to allow the U.S. Marines to remain on Okinawa. Hatoyama's decision has resulted in a split in the ruling center-left coalition government, a development welcome in Washington, with Mizuho Fukushima, the Social Democratic Party leader threatening to bolt the coalition over the Okinawa reversal.

The Cheonan was sunk near Baengnyeong Island, a westernmost spot that is far from the South Korean coast, but opposite the North Korean coast. The island is heavily militarized and within artillery fire range of North Korean coastal defenses, which lie across a narrow channel.

The Cheonan, an ASW corvette, was decked out with state-of-the-art sonar, plus it was operating in waters with extensive hydrophone sonar arrays and acoustic underwater sensors. There is no South Korean sonar or audio evidence of a torpedo, submarine or mini-sub in the area. Since there is next to no shipping in the channel, the sea was silent at the time of the sinking.

However, Baengnyeong Island hosts a joint US-South Korea military intelligence base and the US Navy SEALS operate out of the base. In addition, four U.S. Navy ships were in the area, part of the joint U.S-South Korean Exercise Foal Eagle, during the sinking of the Cheonan. An investigation of the suspect torpedo's metallic and chemical fingerprints show it to be of German manufacture. There are suspicions that the US Navy SEALS maintains a sampling of European torpedoes for sake of plausible deniability for false flag attacks. Also, Berlin does not sell torpedoes to North Korea, however, Germany does maintain a close joint submarine and submarine weapons development program with Israel.

The presence of the USNS Salvor, one of the participants in Foal Eagle, so close to Baengnyeong Island during the sinking of the South Korean corvette also raises questions.

The Salvor, a civilian Navy salvage ship, which participated in mine laying activities for the Thai Marines in the Gulf of Thailand in 2006, was present near the time of the blast with a complement of 12 deep sea divers.

Beijing, satisfied with North Korea's Kim Jong Il's claim of innocence after a hurried train trip from Pyongyang to Beijing, suspects the U.S. Navy's role in the Cheonan's sinking, with particular suspicion on the role of the Salvor. The suspicions are as follows:

1. The Salvor engaged in a seabed mine-installation operation, in other words, attaching horizontally fired anti-submarine mines on the sea floor in the channel.

2. The Salvor was doing routine inspection and maintenance on seabed mines, and put them into an electronic active mode (hair trigger release) as part of the inspection program.

3. A SEALS diver attached a magnetic mine to the Cheonan, as part of a covert program aimed at influencing public opinion in South Korea, Japan and China.

The Korean peninsula tensions have conveniently overshadowed all other agenda items on Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visits to Beijing and Seoul.
Logged

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<<
PTTurboe
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 596


"Keep honking while I reload..."


WWW
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 09:10:06 AM »

Yep...
Logged

Saddam Hussein
Barack Hussein Obama
Joseph Robinette Biden
Osama Bin Laden

Its a Game. A Spiritual Game...

You need to Cross The River....
HAZMAT
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 778



« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 12:51:23 PM »

What?? That didnt happen.



That is only half the ship, here is a better picture where you can tell.



Logged
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 12:55:46 PM »

Im sorry, where do those pics show,
Quote
According to evidence the blast ripped the ship into two neat pieces
. ??

Just what is this evidence that shows the ship ripped into 2 neat pieces?
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Kilika
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,865

Thank you Jesus!


« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 01:02:30 PM »

OOps! Hadn't seen that last photo before. That looks to be the front half. I thought the first photo showed a rather short ship. The prop shaft seemed rather long for that length of ship. That bottom photo explains it, if that is really it's front half. If you look close at the second photo, on the aft section there is a number that appears to be the same as the hull number on the bow section of the last photo.
Logged

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10 (KJB)
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 01:13:22 PM »

OOps! Hadn't seen that last photo before. That looks to be the front half. I thought the first photo showed a rather short ship. The prop shaft seemed rather long for that length of ship. That bottom photo explains it, if that is really it's front half. If you look close at the second photo, on the aft section there is a number that appears to be the same as the hull number on the bow section of the last photo.


aahhhh, i see it now.  Shocked cant believe i didnt see it before, or the second time, or the third.

Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Optimus
Globalist Destroyer
Global Moderator
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11,094


The banksters are steaming piles of dog shit!


WWW
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 01:52:18 PM »

What?? That didnt happen.



That's only half the ship.

This is not the same ship, but the same class of ship as the Cheonan.

Logged

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it's an instrument for the people to restrain the government.” – Patrick Henry

>>> Global Gulag Media & Forum <<<
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 04:59:25 PM »

I am taking the China/NK explanation with as big a grain of salt as I take the official version.

So far, it looks like it was a German torpedo.

And what country gets subs and ships and torpedoes for free from the fatherland?
Logged
Kilika
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,865

Thank you Jesus!


« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 05:38:40 PM »

It would be a big help if there were pictures available of the ship as it sat in the water after the explosion. Those two photos have it already seperated, making it hard to tell what happened, but it appears it seperated just forward of the engine room. And it's kind of curious they have each open end of the sections covered with tarps.
Logged

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10 (KJB)
cjrocks
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 232


"The f**k you all lookin at"


« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 05:47:15 PM »

ANyone have a photo of the torpedo?
Logged

"As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
"I would be willing to use nuclear weapons against Iran if it were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel" - Hillary Rodham Clinton
Kilika
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,865

Thank you Jesus!


« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 05:51:55 PM »

Before or after it blowed up?  Wink
Logged

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
1 Timothy 6:10 (KJB)
cjrocks
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 232


"The f**k you all lookin at"


« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 06:20:36 PM »

Before or after it blowed up?  Wink

What kinda of torpedo and is there pictures of this torpedo that has the North Korean logo on it i read somewhere it had the logo. Is Germany selling Torpedo's to North Korea?
Logged

"As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
"I would be willing to use nuclear weapons against Iran if it were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel" - Hillary Rodham Clinton
HAZMAT
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 778



« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2010, 09:41:51 PM »

It would be a big help if there were pictures available of the ship as it sat in the water after the explosion. Those two photos have it already seperated, making it hard to tell what happened, but it appears it seperated just forward of the engine room. And it's kind of curious they have each open end of the sections covered with tarps.

I was curious about this also.
Logged
psy0ps
Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 374


Groom of the Stool


« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 11:11:40 PM »











Logged

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever."
clearmyst
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,604


« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2010, 11:29:43 PM »

http://gowans.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/the-sinking-of-the-cheonan-another-gulf-of-tonkin-incident/

By Stephen Gowans

While the South Korean government announced on May 20 that it has overwhelming evidence that one of its warships was sunk by a torpedo fired by a North Korean submarine, there is, in fact, no direct link between North Korea and the sunken ship. And it seems very unlikely that North Korea had anything to do with it.

That’s not my conclusion. It’s the conclusion of Won See-hoon, director of South Korea’s National Intelligence. Won told a South Korean parliamentary committee in early April, less than two weeks after the South Korean warship, the Cheonan, sank in waters off Baengnyeong Island, that there was no evidence linking North Korea to the Cheonan’s sinking. (1)

South Korea’s Defense Minister Kim Tae-young backed him up, pointing out that the Cheonan’s crew had not detected a torpedo (2), while Lee Ki-sik, head of the marine operations office at the South Korean joint chiefs of staff agreed that “No North Korean warships have been detected…(in) the waters where the accident took place.” (3)

Notice he said “accident.”

Soon after the sinking of the South Korean warship, the Cheonan, Defense Minister Kim Tae-young ruled out a North Korean torpedo attack, noting that a torpedo would have been spotted, and no torpedo had been spotted. Intelligence chief Won See-hoon, said there was no evidence linking North Korea to the Cheonan’s sinking.

Defense Ministry officials added that they had not detected any North Korean submarines in the area at the time of the incident. (4) According to Lee, “We didn’t detect any movement by North Korean submarines near” the area where the Cheonan went down. (5)

When speculation persisted that the Cheonan had been sunk by a North Korean torpedo, the Defense Ministry called another press conference to reiterate “there was no unusual North Korean activities detected at the time of the disaster.” (6)

A ministry spokesman, Won Tae-jae, told reporters that “With regard to this case, no particular activities by North Korean submarines or semi-submarines…have been verified. I am saying again that there were no activities that could be directly linked to” the Cheonan’s sinking. (7)

Rear Admiral Lee, the head of the marine operations office, added that, “We closely watched the movement of the North’s vessels, including submarines and semi-submersibles, at the time of the sinking. But military did not detect any North Korean submarines near the country’s western sea border.” (8)

North Korea has vehemently denied any involvement in the sinking.

So, a North Korean submarine is now said to have fired a torpedo which sank the Cheonan, but in the immediate aftermath of the sinking the South Korean navy detected no North Korean naval vessels, including submarines, in the area. Indeed, immediately following the incident defense minister Lee ruled out a North Korean torpedo attack, noting that a torpedo would have been spotted, and no torpedo had been spotted. (9)

The case gets weaker still.

It’s unlikely that a single torpedo could split a 1,200 ton warship in two. Baek Seung-joo, an analyst with the Korea Institute for Defense Analysis says that “If a single torpedo or floating mine causes a naval patrol vessel to split in half and sink, we will have to rewrite our military doctrine.” (10)

The Cheonan sank in shallow, rapidly running, waters, in which it’s virtually impossible for submarines to operate. “Some people are pointing the finger at North Korea,” notes Song Young-moo, a former South Korean navy chief of staff, “but anyone with knowledge about the waters where the shipwreck occurred would not draw that conclusion so easily.” (11)

Contrary to what looks like an improbable North-Korea-torpedo-hypothesis, the evidence points to the Cheonan splitting in two and sinking because it ran aground upon a reef, a real possibility given the shallow waters in which the warship was operating. According to Go Yeong-jae, the South Korean Coast Guard captain who rescued 56 of the stricken warship’s crew, he “received an order …that a naval patrol vessel had run aground in the waters 1.2 miles to the southwest of Baengnyeong Island, and that we were to move there quickly to rescue them.” (12)

Some members of South Korea’s opposition parties – which have been highly critical of the government for blaming North Korea for the disaster– “contend that the boat was sunk either by a ‘friendly fire’ torpedo during a training exercise or that it broke part while trying to get off a reef.” (13) Whatever the cause, they don’t believe the findings of the official inquiry.

So how is it that what looked like no North Korean involvement in the Cheonan’s sinking, according to the South Korean military in the days immediately following the incident, has now become, one and half months later, an open and shut case of North Korean aggression, according to government-appointed investigators?

South Korean president Lee Myung-bak is a North Korea-phobe who prefers a confrontational stance toward his neighbor to the north to the policy of peaceful coexistence and growing cooperation favored by his recent predecessors. His foreign policy rests on the goal of forcing the collapse of North Korea.

The answer has much to do with the electoral fortunes of South Korea’s ruling Grand National Party, and the party’s need to marshal support for a tougher stance on the North. Lurking in the wings are US arms manufacturers who stand to profit if South Korean president Lee Myung-bak wins public backing for beefed up spending on sonar equipment and warships to deter a North Korean threat – all the more likely with the Cheonan incident chalked up to North Korean aggression.

Lee is a North Korea-phobe who prefers a confrontational stance toward his neighbor to the north to the policy of peaceful coexistence and growing cooperation favored by his recent predecessors (and by Pyongyang, as well. It’s worth mentioning that North Korea supports a policy of peace and cooperation. South Korea, under its hawkish president, does not.) Fabricating a case against the North serves Lee in a number of ways. If voters in the South can be persuaded that the North is indeed a menace – and it looks like this is exactly what is happening – Lee’s hawkish policies will be embraced as the right ones for present circumstances. This will prove immeasurably helpful in upcoming mayoral and gubernatorial elections in June.

What’s more, Lee’s foreign policy rests on the goal of forcing the collapse of North Korea. When he took office in February 2008, he set about reversing a 10-year-old policy of unconditional aid to the North. He has also refused to move ahead on cross-border economic projects. (14) Lee’s goal, as Selig Harrison, the US establishment’s foremost liberal expert on Korea describes it, is to “once again [seek] the collapse of the North and its absorption by the South.” (15) Forcing the collapse of North Korea was the main policy of past right-wing and military governments to which Lee’s government is historically linked. The claim that the sinking of the Cheonan is due to an unprovoked North Korean torpedo attack makes it easier for Lee to drum up support for his confrontational stance.

But it does more than that. It also helps Lee move ahead with his goal of re-unifying the Korean peninsula by engineering the collapse of the North. Lee has used the Cheonan incident to: cut off trade with the North; block the North’s use of the South’s shipping lanes; argue for stepped up international sanctions against Pyongyang; call for the beefing up of the South’s military; and issue a virtual declaration of war, branding North Korea the South’s principal foe and announcing that “It is now time for the North Korean regime to change.” (16) Seoul already spends $20 billion per year on its armed forces, almost three times more than the $7 billion Pyongyang allocates to military spending. South Korea has one of the most miserly social welfare systems in the industrialized world, in part because it spends so much on defense. (17) Only 28 percent of the South’s working population is covered by a government pension plan, a state of affairs that has given rise to “’silver’ job fairs, established to find jobs for people aged 60 and over.” (18) Even so, the South’s military spending as a percentage of its GDP is a drop in the bucket compared to the North’s. With a smaller economy, North Korea struggles (and fails) to keep up with its more formidably armed neighbor, channeling a crushingly large percentage of its GDP into defense. It is caught in a difficult bind in which it not only has to defend its borders against South Korea, but against the 30,000 US troops stationed on the Korean peninsula and twice as many more in nearby Japan. By expanding the South’s military budget, and using the Cheonan affair to put the country on a virtual war footing, Lee forces the North to either divert even more of its limited resources to its military – a reaction which will ratchet up the misery factor inside the North as guns take even more of a precedence over butter – or leave itself inadequately equipped to defend itself.

This meshes well with calls from the RAND Corporation for South Korea to buy sensors to detect North Korean submarines and more warships to intercept North Korean naval vessels. (19) An unequivocal US-lackey – protesters have called the security perimeter around Lee’s office “the U.S. state of South Korea” (20) – Lee would be pleased to hand US corporations fat contracts to furnish the South Korean military with more hardware. Lee’s right-wing party and US military contractors win, while North Koreans and the bulk of Koreans of the south are sacrificed on the altar of South Korean militarism.

The United States, too, has motivations to fabricate a case against North Korea. One is to justify the continued presence, 65 years after the end of WWII, of US troops on Japanese soil. Many Japanese bristle at what is effectively a permanent occupation of their country by more than a token contingent of US troops. There are 60,000 US soldiers, airmen and sailors in Japan. Washington, and the Japanese government – which, when it isn’t willingly collaborating with its own occupiers, is forced into submission by the considerable leverage Washington exercises — justifies the US troop presence through the sheer sophistry of presenting North Korea as an ongoing threat. The claim that North Korea sunk the Cheonan in an unprovoked attack strengthens Washington’s case for occupation. Not surprisingly, US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton has seized on the Cheonan incident to underline “the importance of the America-Japanese alliance, and the presence of American troops on Japanese soil.” (21)

Given these political realities, it comes as no surprise that from the start members of Lee’s party blamed the sinking of the Cheonan on a North Korean torpedo, (22) just as members of the Bush administration immediately blamed 9/11 on Saddam Hussein, and then proceeded to look for evidence to substantiate their case, in the hopes of justifying an already planned invasion. (Later, the Bush administration fabricated an intelligence dossier on Iraq’s banned weapons.) In fact, the reason the ministry of defense felt the need to reiterate there was no evidence of a North Korean link was the persistent speculation of GNP politicians that North Korea was the culprit. Lee himself, ever hostile to his northern neighbor, said his “intuition” told him that North Korea was to blame. (23) Today, opposition parties accuse Lee of using “red scare” tactics to garner support as the June 2 elections draw near. (24) And leaders of South Korea’s four main opposition parties, as well as a number of civil groups, have issued a joint statement denouncing the government’s findings as untrustworthy. Woo Sang-ho, a spokesman for South Korea’s Democratic Party has called the probe results “insufficient proof and questioned whether the North was involved at all.” (25)

Lee announced, even before the inquiry rendered its findings, that a task force will be launched to overhaul the national security system and bulk up the military to prepare itself for threats from North Korea. (26) He even prepared a package of sanctions against the North in the event the inquiry confirmed what his intuition told him. (27) No wonder civil society groups denounced the inquiry’s findings, arguing that “The probe started after the conclusions had already been drawn.” (28)

Jung Sung-ki, a staff reporter for The Korean Times, has raised a number of questions about the inquiry’s findings. The inquiry concluded that “two North Korean submarines, one 300-ton Sango class and the other 130-ton Yeono class, were involved in the attack. Under the cover of the Sango class, the midget Yeono class submarine approached the Cheonan and launched the CHT-02D torpedo manufactured by North Korea.” But “’Sango class submarines…do not have an advanced system to guide homing weapons,’ an expert at a missile manufacturer told The Korea Times on condition of anonymity. ‘If a smaller class submarine was involved, there is a bigger question mark.’” (29)

“Rear Adm. Moon Byung-ok, spokesman for [the official inquiry] told reporters, ‘We confirmed that two submarines left their base two or three days prior to the attack and returned to the port two or three days after the assault.’” But earlier “South Korean and U.S. military authorities confirmed several times that there had been no sign of North Korean infiltration in the” area in which the Cheonan went down. (30)

“In addition, Moon’s team reversed its position on whether or not there was a column of water following an air bubble effect” (caused by an underwater explosion.) “Earlier, the team said there were no sailors who had witnessed a column of water. But during [a] briefing session, the team said a soldier onshore at Baengnyeong Island witnessed ‘an approximately 100-meter-high pillar of white,’ adding that the phenomenon was consistent with a shockwave and bubble effect.” (31)

The inquiry produced a torpedo propeller recovered by fishing vessels that it said perfectly match the schematics of a North Korean torpedo. “But it seemed that the collected parts had been corroding at least for several months.” (32)

Finally, the investigators “claim the Korean word written on the driving shaft of the propeller parts was same as that seen on a North Korean torpedo discovered by the South …seven years ago.” But the “’word is not inscribed on the part but written on it,’ an analyst said, adding that “’the lettering issue is dubious.’” (33)

On August 2, 1964, the United States announced that three North Vietnamese torpedo boats had launched an unprovoked attacked on the USS Maddox, a US Navy destroyer, in the Gulf of Tonkin. The incident handed US president Lyndon Johnson the Congressional support he needed to step up military intervention in Vietnam. In 1971, the New York Times reported that the Pentagon Papers, a secret Pentagon report, revealed that the incident had been faked to provide a pretext for escalated military intervention. There had been no attack.

The Cheonan incident has all the markings of another Gulf of Tonkin incident. And as usual, the aggressor is accusing the intended victim of an unprovoked attack to justify a policy of aggression under the pretext of self-defense.

1. Kang Hyun-kyung, “Ruling camp differs over NK involvement in disaster”, The Korea Times, April 7, 2010.
2. Nicole Finnemann, “The sinking of the Cheonan”, Korea Economic Institute, April 1, 2010. http://newsmanager.commpartners.com/kei/issues/2010-04-01/1.html
3. “Military leadership adding to Cheonan chaos with contradictory statements”, The Hankyoreh, March 31, 2010.
4. “Birds or North Korean midget submarine?” The Korea Times, April 16, 2010.
5. Ibid.
6. “Military plays down N.K. foul play”, The Korea Herald, April 2, 2010.
7. Ibid.
8. “No subs near Cheonan: Ministry”, JoongAng Daily, April 2, 2010.
9. Jean H. Lee, “South Korea says mine from the North may have sunk warship”, The Washington Post, March 30, 2010.
10. “What caused the Cheonan to sink?” The Chosun Ilbo, March 29, 2010.
11. Ibid.
12. “Military leadership adding to Cheonan chaos with contradictory statements”, The Hankyoreh, March 31, 2010.
13. Barbara Demick, “In South Korea, competing reactions to sinking of warship”, The Los Angeles Times, May 28, 2010.
14. Blaine Harden, “Brawl Near Koreas’ Border,” The Washington Post, December 3, 2008.
15. Selig S. Harrison, “What Seoul should do despite the Cheonan”, The Hankyoreh, May 14, 2010.
16. “Full text of President’s Lee’s national address”, The Korea Times, May 24, 2010.
17. Selig S. Harrison, “What Seoul should do despite the Cheonan”, The Hankyoreh, May 14, 2010.
18. Su-Hyun Lee, “Aging and seeking work in South Korea,” The New York Times, September 11, 2009.
19. “Kim So-hyun, “A touchstone of Lee’s leadership”, The Korea Herald, May 13, 2010.
20. The New York Times, June 12, 2008.
21. Mark Landler, “Clinton condemns attack on South Korean Ship”, The New York Times, May 21, 2010.
22. Kang Hyun-kyung, “Ruling camp differs over NK involvement in disaster”, The Korea Times, April 7, 2010.
23. “Kim So-hyun, “A touchstone of Lee’s leadership”, Korea Herald, May 13, 2010.
24. Kang Hyun-kyung, “Ruling camp differs over NK involvement in disaster”, The Korea Times, April 7, 2010; Choe Sang-Hun, “South Korean sailors say blast that sank their ship came from outside vessel”, The New York Times, April 8, 2010.
25. Cho Jae-eun, “Probe satisfies some, others have doubts”, JoongAng Daily, May 21, 2010.
26. “Kim So-hyun, “A touchstone of Lee’s leadership”, The Korea Herald, May 13, 2010.
27. “Seoul prepares sanctions over Cheonan sinking”, The Choson Ilbo, May 13, 2010.
28. Cho Jae-eun, “Probe satisfies some, others have doubts”, JoongAng Daily, May 21, 2010.
29. Jung Sung-ki, “Questions raised about ‘smoking gun’”, The Korea Times, May 20, 2010.
30. Ibid.
31. Ibid.
32. Ibid.
33. Ibid.

Most of the articles cited here are posted on Tim Beal’s DPRK- North Korea website, http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~caplabtb/dprk/, an invaluable resource for anyone interested in Korea.
Logged
_CREATIONIST_
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,228


9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.


« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 03:50:20 PM »

http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-05-29/chonan-attack-us-china.html

watch the video embedded on site. What I have gathered so far is that the Torpedo was a German made torpedo and Germany does NOT trade with N. Korea.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6460FC20100507

Quote
The metallic debris and chemical residue appear to be consistent with a type of torpedo made in Germany, indicating the North may have been trying to disguise its involvement by avoiding arms made by allies China and Russia, Yonhap quoted the official as saying.

This isnt my blog, but it's something I found that I thought was very interesting.

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/german-made-torpedo-sunk-south-korean-cheonan/
Logged

" In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." - General Robert E. Lee
Monkeypox
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15,719


He Loved Big Brother


WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 04:02:29 PM »

Sure sounds like a FF, doesn't it?
Logged

War Is Peace - Freedom Is Slavery - Ignorance Is Strength


"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

—Thomas Jefferson
phasma
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,201


Have a H.A.A.R.P.Y DAY !


« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 04:06:25 PM »

Sure sounds like a FF, doesn't it?

It kinda does. Do we know who germany DOES trade with? may offer us some clues as to whom the puppet master might be - if it is in fact a FF op.
Logged

Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise - Surangama Sutra
_CREATIONIST_
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,228


9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB.


« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2010, 04:11:35 PM »

It kinda does. Do we know who germany DOES trade with? may offer us some clues as to whom the puppet master might be - if it is in fact a FF op.

Isreal
Logged

" In all my perplexities and distresses, the Bible has never failed to give me light and strength." - General Robert E. Lee
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2010, 04:28:07 PM »

That so far is the best explanation to me.  70% of the people here in South Korea believe the official government version.  Of those who do not, many still have strong feelings about the nationalistic nature of Pukan (North Korea, in Korean) under both Kim Il Sung and Kim Il Jong (though they are not traitors or communist sympathizers in any sense).  Many of them may believe the North Korean explanation which is also circulating in China nd in the West that the U.S. itself may be directly behind this false-flag attack as Wayne Madsen seems to believe now.

I, however, think it was Israeli inititated, though the U.S. government may have had some involvement or foreknowledge, and may in any event be involved in a cover up.

The offical explanation definitely has too many holes.

Either way those who initiated the attack win since people will line up for or against N. Korea or the U.S. and (present) South Korean government.  They want conflict in this part of the world as part of an attempt to tie up the giant (China) whent they attack Iran.

U.S. and Israeli nuclear-armed subs have already been dispatched to the waters off Iran.  It no longer looks like they will even necessarily avoid the use of nuclear weapons  in this conflict.  Furthermore, the BP ("Anglo-Persian Oil" at one time) appears to be connected to this whole scenario.

This thing is way bigger than South Korean elections or even the Okinawan base, IMO.  I also do not think it is simply a "wag the dog" type event designed to distract Americans from economic troubles.  This was a militarily strategic attack.
Logged
phasma
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,201


Have a H.A.A.R.P.Y DAY !


« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2010, 04:28:46 PM »

Isreal
hmmm . . and theyv`e never done any FF op`s for the west have they ! (Like 7/7 for instance!)
oh dear.
Logged

Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise - Surangama Sutra
HAZMAT
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 778



« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2010, 04:31:28 PM »

hmmm . . and theyv`e never done any FF op`s for the west have they ! (Like 7/7 for instance!)
oh dear.

Guess who has german made subs also.

Israel.
Logged
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2010, 04:58:36 PM »

North Korea Warns UN to Be Wary of False Evidence of Sinking

North Korea warned the United Nations to be wary of evidence that it said falsely accuses the country of torpedoing a South Korean warship, likening the case to the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The Security Council risks being “misused” by the U.S. if it takes up the North Korea case, the country’s foreign ministry said last night in a statement carried by the official Korean Central News Agency. “The U.S. is seriously mistaken if it thinks it can occupy the Korean Peninsula just as it did Iraq with sheer lies,” the statement said.

The U.S. is joining South Korea in blaming North Korea for the March 26 incident that killed 46 sailors to “put China into an awkward position and keep hold on Japan and South Korea as its servants,” KCNA said.

The statement came as the leaders of South Korea, China and Japan are set to start today a two-day trilateral summit on the South Korean resort island of Jeju. Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao avoided any reference yesterday to North Korea’s role in the sinking of the warship in his first public comments since arriving in Seoul for talks with President Lee Myung Bak.

South Korea wants China to accept findings that the North fired a torpedo that sank the 1,200-ton Cheonan. China holds veto powers in the UN Security Council, and its acquiescence will be needed to win a resolution condemning the North. Wen reiterated yesterday that China was still considering the evidence and said it won’t protect anyone found to be responsible for the attack.

China is North Korea’s largest trading partner and main political ally.

Joint Probe

China proposed to the U.S. a joint investigation with North and South Korea into the sinking, the Seoul-based Hankyoreh newspaper reported, citing a diplomat it didn’t name. Russia plans to send its own team to South Korea for an independent assessment of the incident, which a South Korea-led team involving experts from the U.S., U.K., Australia and Sweden blamed on North Korea in a May 20 announcement in Seoul.

Russia also has veto power in the Security Council and participates in the stalled six-party talks on North Korea’s nuclear weapons program that is hosted by China and also includes the U.S., Japan and South Korea.

North Korean Major General Pak Rim Su said in Pyongyang yesterday that the international investigation into the March 26 sinking of the Cheonan was biased because it was supervised by the South Korean military and included the U.S., KCNA said in a separate report.

“The noisy racket of confrontation with the DPRK kicked up by the group over the sinking of Cheonan is nothing but an act of precipitating its self-destruction as it is an undisguised declaration of war against the DPRK,” Pak said, according to KCNA. DPRK, or the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, is North Korea’s official name.

http://preview.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-28/north-korean-general-warns-of-all-out-war-as-u-s-south-deploy-vessels.html
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Freeski
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,744


« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2010, 05:03:30 PM »

This should scare the shit out of us.
Logged

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Dig
All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man.
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 63,103



WWW
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2010, 03:12:32 AM »

Seoul knows...



Seoul Weighs Shift in U.S. Military Ties
American and South Korean Leaders Plan New War Games and Strategy Sessions in Face of Rising Tensions With the North
http://www.jkwebco.com/wordpress/2010/05/seoul-reviews-us-military-ties-wall-street-journal/
By JAY SOLOMON JUNE 1, 2010

SEOUL—South Korea is reviewing its defense policy following North Korea's alleged sinking of a South Korean naval vessel, a process that could significantly change Seoul's military alliance with Washington, according to officials engaged in the process.

Over the past week, U.S. and South Korean leaders have outlined plans to conduct war games and strategy sessions to better equip the South for combating the type of submarine attack Pyongyang is accused by international investigators to have staged in March, killing 46 South Korean sailors.

For the longer term, President Lee Myung-bak's conservative government could seek to alter the alliance's command structure and Seoul's weapons arsenal in ways that would affect the Pentagon's current strategic planning for Northeast Asia, according to these officials

South Korean defense strategists already are publicly pressing Mr. Lee to delay the planned 2012 transfer of operational control of the combined U.S.-South Korean fighting force to Seoul from Washington, arguing South Korea isn't prepared yet to oversee American forces.

The agreement between Washington and Seoul has a clause that allows South Korea's president to formally request a suspension of the transfer. The U.S. currently deploys 29,000 troops in South Korea, and the South Korean military deploys 600,000.

Some South Korean officials involved in the president's military-overhaul drive also are calling for Seoul to develop more offensive strategic weapons as a means to deter the nuclear-armed North from future aggression. Currently, South Korea's defense agreement with the U.S. prohibits Seoul from deploying precision-guided missiles with a range of more than 300 kilometers.

"We need to have our own ways to threaten North Korea," said Kim Tae-woo, a South Korean defense expert who sits on one of two committees President Lee has established to assess Seoul's military preparedness. "We need to have this dialogue with our allies."

Mr. Lee took office in 2008 calling for an overhaul of South Korea's military apparatus, which his party had charged was weakened during 10 years of liberal rule in Seoul. But South Korea's new government initially agreed with its predecessor's plans to shrink the size of Seoul's military ranks while reining in defense spending.

Many in South Korea have viewed North Korea's million-man military as largely targeted at the U.S. South Korea's late President Roh Moo-hyun successfully pushed for the U.S. to lower it military profile in his country and to transfer control of the joint military command to South Korea's defense department.

The North's alleged attack March 26 on the South Korean naval vessel, the Cheonan, however, has shaken up Seoul's strategic thinking, according to South Korean and U.S. officials. A major concern here now is that Pyongyang's development of nuclear technologies has provided leader Kim Jong Il with a deterrent against the more-advanced militaries of the U.S. and South Korea. This, in turn, could allow Pyongyang to stage more-aggressive conventional attacks on the South, with the belief that Seoul won't retaliate for fear of an escalation.

This fear seems to have been borne out in recent days as Mr. Lee's government has shown a reluctance to take some new steps to challenge Pyongyang over the Cheonan incident. Seoul, for example, stepped back from an initial pledge to use loudspeakers to blast propaganda across the Demilitarized Zone between the two Koreas, after the North threatened to attack the broadcasting structure.

South Korea's leaders also have publicly sought to play down the idea that the North's two recent nuclear tests have given it a military advantage or that it has succeeded in developing operational atomic weapons.

"Regarding North Korea's nuclear capabilities, we have not been able to verify those capabilities," South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said last week at a joint news conference with U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

Still, many leading defense thinkers in Seoul said Pyongyang's growing nuclear technologies are "game changers" that now require South Korea to significantly upgrade its own capabilities. In addition to urging the development of longer-range missiles, many experts are calling for the purchases of advanced new strike-fighters and antiballistic-missile batteries. They also say the Pentagon should remain in charge of the joint military command in South Korea beyond 2012, given the lethal effectiveness displayed by North Korea's mini-submarine fleet during the Cheonan attack.

"There has been an asymmetrical shift that has weakened our deterrence structure," said Kim Byungki of Seoul's Korea University. "We are supposed to have air, ground and sea dominance."

South Korea's effort to renegotiate in the coming months its decades-old nuclear-cooperation agreement with the U.S. could now prove particularly tricky, according to current and former U.S. officials.

South Korea, under the 1974 pact, faces strict guidelines on its ability to store and reprocess the spent nuclear fuel produced by the country's 20 power reactors, because of fears it could be diverted for military purposes. The U.S. is seeking to limit any major alterations in the treaty, which expires in 2014, so as not to undermine Washington's efforts to contain the nuclear advances of countries like North Korea and Iran.

South Korean officials have said they are seeking to amend the agreement to in a bid to allow Seoul to better manage the storage of its nuclear waster. They are specifically citing South Korea's need to reprocess the spent fuel into a form that can be more easily disposed. But some analysts said Mr. Lee's government also could resist the constrictive terms being sought by the U.S. by citing the North's flouting of a 1992 agreement calling for the removal of all atomic weapons on the Korean Peninsula.

"This incident with the Cheonan could be the spark for turning around a number of things" between the U.S. and South Korea, said Victor Cha, who served as a senior White House official working on Asia during President George W. Bush's second term.
Logged

All eyes are opened, or opening, to the rights of man. The general spread of the light of science has already laid open to every view the palpable truth, that the mass of mankind has not been born with saddles on their backs, nor a favored few booted and spurred, ready to ride them legitimately
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2010, 05:10:14 PM »

They (Seoul -- the present GNP gov't.) want closer ties to the U.S., (and ironically)more control over our military presence, and they want to be able to threaten their neighbor to the north when they want to.  Yes, that is their Christmas wish list.
Logged
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2010, 05:31:29 PM »

S.Korea hesitates bringing sea attack to U.N. council

(Reuters) - South Korea  is ready to ask the U.N. Security Council to censure North Korea for allegedly torpedoing a South Korean warship but is waiting for the "best time," a South Korean official said on Wednesday.

World  |  South Korea  |  North Korea

South Korea accuses North Korea of torpedoing South Korea's Cheonan corvette in March, killing 46 sailors -- the deadliest military incident since the Korean War. It has vowed to bring the case to the council to demand a rebuke for Pyongyang.

After meeting with Mexican U.N. Ambassador Claude Heller, who is president of the council this month, South Korean Vice Foreign Minister Chun Yung-woo told reporters that Seoul has not dropped plans to bring the case to the council.

"I have discussed when would be the best time to refer this case to the Security Council," Chun said about his meeting with Heller. "It depends on the schedule of the council."

Asked when he would submit a letter formally requesting that the council to take up the issue, Chun said: "At some point."

"We will have to find out what would be the best time to begin deliberations on this issue," he said. "When the council is ready to take this issue, then we will submit the letter."

Chun denied that South Korea was deliberately delaying its request for the council to discuss the sinking of the ship. He also declined to comment on China's position.

China, which is North Korea's biggest trade partner and which fought alongside the North in 1950-1953 Korean War, has declined to publicly join international condemnation of Pyongyang, saying it is still assessing the evidence.

Council diplomats have said on condition of anonymity that China, a veto-wielding permanent Security Council member and North Korea's only major ally, has made clear that Beijing would prefer not to take up the issue at the United Nations.

China, Western diplomats say, will not tolerate new sanctions against North Korea, while Seoul appears determined to have the council at least agree on some form of rebuke of North Korea.

At a three-way Japanese-Chinese-South Korean summit meeting last weekend, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao deflected pressure to censure North Korea, instead urging his neighbors to calm tensions over the sinking of the warship and avoid any clash that could shake Asia.

Wen did not mention North Korea by name, nor did he give any firm indication that China would accept any efforts to have the U.N. Security Council condemn or sanction the North.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6516OU20100602?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2010, 05:54:38 PM »

U.N. Plans More Cash for North Korea's Dictatorial Regime

 Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

Even as the United States tries to ratchet up sanctions against North Korea for its March 26 sinking of a South Korean warship, the United Nations is preparing to spend more than $170 million on new programs in the xenophobic communist state. More surprisingly, it is doing so with the knowledge and cooperation of the U.S. State Department.

The U.N. aid programs cover everything from health care, like anti-malaria campaigns and tuberculosis vaccinations, to agriculture projects, sanitation and water supply improvements, educational programs and and statistics-gathering to help in delivering "knowledge management products and information services."

According to documents obtained by Fox News, the programs include English-language lessons for North Korean bureaucrats, in order to help increase foreign trade and investment that fell to anemic levels more than a decade ago, and millions more for "advocacy." All are being planned in close cooperation with the North Korean dictatorship of Kim Jong-Il.

Many of the spending plans are well known to the Obama Administration, which recently featured a job search posting on a State Department website for one U.N. agency position, which would monitor some of the health-related program spending from the North Korean capital of Pyongyang.

After Fox News asked questions about the employment notice, it disappeared into an archive. State Department spokesmen did not reply to the questions before this article was published.

Among the programs either under way or in the advanced planning stages:

• An $11.5 million, two-year anti-malaria program to be carried out by UNICEF and the World Health Organization (WHO). Another U.N. agency, the United Nations Office for Project Services (UNOPS) has been hired to monitor the program. According to UNICEF spokesman Christopher de Bono, "pre-implementation work" — including procurement of supplies — started shortly after a funding agreement was signed in February. According to another source, about $7.9 million has already been disbursed for that effort.

• a two-year anti-TB program that could cost up to $22.6 million that also would be carried out by UNICEF and WHO. The agreement covering the program is still being negotiated. Most of the money involved would go to TB diagnosis and treatment, including drugs.

The two anti-disease programs have renewal options for three additional years that could bring the total spending on them to $88 million.

• A $13.9 million plan by UNICEF to improve water, sanitation and hygiene, especially in rural areas.

• A $12.2 million education program run by UNICEF that "aims to improve the quality of education nationally." It will, among other things, help develop national standards for "child-friendly primary schools," and "new approaches in teacher training and instructional methodologies." The methods UNICEF is sponsoring "can be expanded to broader areas by the government and other partners."

UNICEF also reports that a revision of North Korea's primary school mathematics curriculum has already been carried out as a pilot project in 28 North Korean schools.

• A $13 million agriculture pilot project under the aegis of the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) to provide diverse food sources for North Korea's government-run agriculture cooperatives, and another $4.6 million to bolster North Korea's "food and agriculture information system," in the interest of enhanced "food security," starting next year.

• A $7.7 million program to bolster energy production and electrical transmission with assistance from the United Nations Environmental Program (UNEP) and the U.N. Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO), also starting in 2011.

• A $4.6 million UNIDO program to "support enterprises engaged in export trade," among other things, which would involve teaching "business English," establishing "networks of knowledge workers," as well as creating unspecified "knowledge management products and information services" to speed economic growth and development.

• A $2.9 million project for "improved national capacities in disaster management," involving the World Food Program, UNEP and FAO.

• A $9.7 million program by the U.N. Population Fund (UNFPA), largely in support of "reproductive health and rights."

Among the North Korean government agencies intimately involved with the welter of programs are the ministries of finance, foreign trade, education and agriculture, and the State Commission for Science and Technology.

Many of the projects in the works are outlined in documents that are being presented to the governing Executive boards of various U.N. agencies as part of a five-year United Nations Strategic Framework for collaboration between the U.N. and Kim, starting in 2011.

The UNICEF plans, for example, are contained in a "draft country program" for North Korea that was presented at a four-day UNICEF Executive Board meeting in New York that started on Tuesday, June 1. The U.S. is a member of the board.

read rest here

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/02/un-plans-more-cash-for-north-korea/?test=latestnews
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Freeski
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,744


« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2010, 05:56:10 PM »

They (Seoul -- the present GNP gov't.) want closer ties to the U.S., (and ironically)more control over our military presence, and they want to be able to threaten their neighbor to the north when they want to.  Yes, that is their Christmas wish list.

Would you agree that there's no question that they will go to war one day? I think so.
Logged

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2010, 06:12:26 PM »

Sadly, I had hoped that this would all blow over after the elections.  I am not sure that that is the case.  the U.S. is sending more warships as we speak and joint exercises are about to go on.

The GNP didn't even get what they wanted -- election results were mixed.  The Japanese PM has been forceds to step down already.  One day, Okinawa will be closed.

I think the S.K. and U.S. politicians have painted themselves in a corner where they can't, perhaps, avoid conflict now.  I think Lee Myung Pak will double-down on his N.K.-phobia, and Obama may be too tempted to use this as a distraction ("Wag the Dog" style) to avoid criticism for his handling of the economy and the BP disaster.

I have ceased thinking this was a false-flag by Israel.  I don't think the torpedo recovered ever even hit the ship, and if it was recovered recently, I wonder if it was anywhere near the vicinity of the sinking.  At first, I didn't think the GNP leader had the chutzpah to merely fabricate such evidence, but now I think it is quite possible.

The simplest explanation, and the one fitting all of the evidence, is that the ship hit a reef and split in two.  This is what was reported immediately in emergency transmissions, and none of the sailors ever reported a giant plume of water supposedly produced by the torpedoes' explosion.  This is probably why they are still not allowed to talk to the press.

The politicians in the U.S. and S.K. have brough the whole world to the brink of war.  It is not just the Korean peninsula.  Everyone everywhere should be upset about these manipulations.  They may yet have very far-ranging consequences for the whole world.
Logged
Freeski
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,744


« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2010, 06:17:39 PM »

Sadly, I had hoped that this would all blow over after the elections.  I am not sure that that is the case.  the U.S. is sending more warships as we speak and joint exercises are about to go on.

The GNP didn't even get what they wanted -- election results were mixed.  The Japanese PM has been forceds to step down already.  One day, Okinawa will be closed.

I think the S.K. and U.S. politicians have painted themselves in a corner where they can't, perhaps, avoid conflict now.  I think Lee Myung Pak will double-down on his N.K.-phobia, and Obama may be too tempted to use this as a distraction ("Wag the Dog" style) to avoid criticism for his handling of the economy and the BP disaster.

I have ceased thinking this was a false-flag by Israel.  I don't think the torpedo recovered ever even hit the ship, and if it was recovered recently, I wonder if it was anywhere near the vicinity of the sinking.  At first, I didn't think the GNP leader had the chutzpah to merely fabricate such evidence, but now I think it is quite possible.

The simplest explanation, and the one fitting all of the evidence, is that the ship hit a reef and split in two.  This is what was reported immediately in emergency transmissions, and none of the sailors ever reported a giant plume of water supposedly produced by the torpedoes' explosion.  This is probably why they are still not allowed to talk to the press.

The politicians in the U.S. and S.K. have brough the whole world to the brink of war.  It is not just the Korean peninsula.  Everyone everywhere should be upset about these manipulations.  They may yet have very far-ranging consequences for the whole world.

Once again we illustrate how government isn't the solution, but rather the problem itself!
Logged

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2010, 06:54:00 PM »

The less government the better, indeed.

I am not an anarchist, philosophically, but I think government should be as small as possible in scope and scale.

I like this term "minarchism".  I don't know who coined it, but I like it.
Logged
Freeski
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,744


« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2010, 06:58:37 PM »

The less government the better, indeed.

I am not an anarchist, philosophically, but I think government should be as small as possible in scope and scale.

I like this term "minarchism".  I don't know who coined it, but I like it.

Yep, the compromise.
Logged

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
citizenx
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,086


« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2010, 07:07:44 PM »

Well, I don't like it becuse it is a compromise, but because I believe that, like nature, political power abhorrs a vacuum. It should, therefore,  be kept to a minimum though, and it must ultimately rest with the people. It should be used only to make sure that people do not use force or fraud in such a way as to inhibit others' liberty.

This is why I am not an absloute anarchist or anarcho-capitalist.

I'm actually not very keen on compromise.
Logged
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2010, 05:54:30 PM »

South Korea's Lee to Press North on Nukes

SEOUL—South Korean President Lee Myung-bak, in a speech at a security conference in Singapore, on Friday will urge Pyongyang to give up nuclear weapons and encourage other countries not to accept North Korea as a nuclear state.

His keynote speech at the Shangri-La Dialogue, an annual gathering of defense ministers organized by London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies, comes amid heightened tensions between the two Koreas over the South's allegation that the North sank one of its warships, killing 46 sailors.

The South's Cheonan warship broke in two and sank after an explosion March 26 near the inter-Korean maritime border in the Yellow Sea, a line North Korea has disputed for years. After the ship was recovered, a South Korean-led international investigation team on May 20 announced it was destroyed by a torpedo of North Korean origin. North Korea has repeatedly denied involvement and blamed South Korea for ratcheting up tension between the two countries.

In his speech in Singapore, Mr. Lee will "stress the graveness" of the ship sinking and connect it to North Korea's broader strategy of becoming a nuclear state, according to a statement released by his office Thursday. He will also ask other countries to encourage North Korean leaders to give up their thinking that they can achieve "a strong and prosperous nation" through the possession of nuclear weapons.

In the aftermath of the sinking, South Korea's military opened a full review of its defense posture and held an antisubmarine exercise last week. Next week, a battle group from the U.S. Navy, led by the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, will join South Korea in another antisubmarine exercise.

South Korea also plans to present its findings on the sinking to the United Nations Security Council and seek a multilateral penalty against the North. Last week, Mr. Lee announced Seoul would unilaterally cut off about half of its trade with North Korea and block passage of the North's ships in the South's water. North Korea responded by saying it would abandon a nonaggression pact with the South.

But the two countries said they would continue to operate a joint industrial park that is by far their most valuable economic connection. Seoul backed off from a plan to blast propaganda messages across the inter-Korean border when Pyongyang threatened to close the industrial park, where about 120 South Korean companies employ more than 40,000 North Koreans.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704025304575284512461662610.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_World
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2010, 05:59:36 PM »

China and Japan 'back North Korea financial sanctions'

South Korea says it has persuaded China and Japan to take part in financial sanctions against North Korea.

It comes in the wake of the sinking of a South Korean naval ship by a North Korean submarine.

In a BBC interview, South Korean Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan speculated that the sinking of the Cheonan might have been the result of internal Pyongyang politics.

North Korea has angrily denied any responsibility for the attack.

The North Korean military, Mr Yu said, might have decided to do it in order to distract attention from other problems.

Mr Yu had no criticisms to make of China for failing to condemn North Korea publicly for the sinking of the Cheonan.

On the contrary, he felt that China had been privately helpful and understanding during the three-way summit with South Korea and Japan, which ended on Sunday.

South Korea is hoping to make the regime in Pyongyang pay a heavy price for its actions.

It is invoking UN resolution 1695, passed in 2006, which makes it possible to introduce economic sanctions against North Korea for breaching its international obligations.

The government in Seoul wants all inflows of money to North Korea to be stopped.

If China, which has so far delayed announcing its own findings on the sinking of the Cheonan, does take part in the sanctions, it could make life even harder for President Kim Jong-il's regime.

Fragile economy

Things are already difficult enough for him. The famine of the past seems mostly to have been dealt with, at least for now, as a result of the government's decision to allow a quiet measure of free enterprise.

But this has helped to create a great deal of corruption among low-level officials, on a scale which the North Korean regime had never previously allowed.

Towards the end of last year North Korea introduced a currency reform which had the effect of raising some salaries by as much as 10,000%.

This made it possible for a lot of people to buy things they had only previously dreamt of.

The shops were suddenly filled with great quantities of cheap consumer goods, mostly brought or smuggled in from China. But it also introduced alarming rates of inflation.

The inflow of cash from outside has never been large, but it has helped to keep North Korea's immensely fragile economy going. If the Chinese join in a wider blockade, it could have serious political consequences as well as economic ones.

It comes at a time when Kim Jong-il, the so-called "Dear Leader", is becoming manifestly weaker. He was once surprisingly clever at wrong-footing both South Korea and the United States in the past, but ever since his stroke in 2008 his powers have waned.
Continue reading the main story

Now his third and youngest son, Kim Jong-un, seems to have been selected to take over from him, just as Kim Jong-il himself was once chosen to succeed "the Great Leader", Kim Il-sung.

Scarcely anything is known about Kim Jong-un, who is either 27 or 28 - accounts vary. He is thought to have been educated in Switzerland, and he possibly speaks quite good English.

Only one authentic photograph of him exists in the public domain, and since that was taken when he was eleven it is not much of a guide to his appearance now.

Rumour in South Korea has it that he was involved in the disastrous decision to reform the currency last year.

Mr Yu admitted in his BBC interview that all these things made people feel nervous about the future of the peninsula at present.

"If things go wrong it could have very serious consequences far wider than just Korea," he said.

It sounds like a measured understatement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10201876.stm
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Dok
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,716



WWW
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2010, 06:59:40 PM »

DPRK warns of war risk on Korean peninsula

GENEVA, June 3 (Xinhua) -- The present situation of the Korean peninsula is so grave that a war may break out at any moment, a senior diplomat of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) warned here on Thursday.

Ri Jang-Gon, the DPRK's deputy permanent representative to the UN Office in Geneva, said the current grave situation was caused by South Korean in collaboration with its ally, the United States, over the sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan in March.

Ri reiterated his country's position that Pyongyang had nothing to do with the sinking of the warship, and South Korea's assertion that the vessel had been sunken by a torpedo attack from a DPRK submarine was not true.

"The results of investigation made by the South Korean regime is a sheer fabrication based on assumptions, guesses and supposition," he told a session of the UN-sponsored Conference on Disarmament.

Ri said the entire people of DPRK were "making their upmost efforts to attain the goal of a powerful and prosperous country by the year 2012."

He added that the Korean peninsula was the only region that had been in a state of war for over half a century, and only by concluding a "peace treaty" can realize the successful denuclearization of the peninsula.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-06/04/c_13332423.htm
Logged

HOW TO BE SAVED
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/how_to_be_saved.html

Ye Must Be Born Again!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/ye_must_be_born_again.htm

True Salvation & the TRUE Gospel/Good News!
http://www.contendingfortruth.com/?p=1060

how to avoid censorship Wink
Freeski
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20,744


« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2010, 12:16:58 AM »

Nothing new, but...

North Korea: ‘War may break out at any moment
http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article446168.ece
Logged

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King, Jr.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.17 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!