Religion: Did you know?

[Amishism]

You're not only a shill, but a stupid shill.

I've alread disproven your billion year old earth in other threads, yet, you care not about facts instead clinging to this pagan religion you have been indoctrinated into.

The polystrate tree is just one of many proofs there was a global flood that your "science" textbooks deny and hide.



Radiometric dating can't be used to date anything unless it's in an closed environment. When the acid rain rains upon the porous rocks elements drain to the bottom of the multiple flood deposition layers giving the error of age, if measuring the elements to dating as is the geological column from bottom to the top.

Carbon dating actually shows a young earth when testing the many coal seems.

More evidences for the young earth not found in the textbooks, from Dr. Gentry, who worked in the coal industry and has published findings in Science and Nature Journals.
The Young Age of the Earth
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-1272542059740401469

Dr. Gentry's major published discovery was that granite formed instantanious not cooling down over the millenia. He used polonium halos within granite that has a half life of only a few seconds.

CAVEMAN is a textbook fiction they have
NEVER EXISTED


Your texbook religion diatribe is built on the same old earth lies, evidence shows monotheism descended into paganism.

[Amishism]

argument:
Textbooks are not "documented" they are scientific opinion.

ALL sources will be given, your religious shortcomings are not my problem.
Just as scientific opinion is given in the textbooks, there is opposing opinion that must be looked at to arrive at known truth. Just as is done in 9-11 science, opinions of experts has to be weighed and judged.

The videos are not given as a reference or as evidence or even for you, but for others who want more info or doubt what I've written, the video made by scientist may then be viewed for informational purposes, nothing to do with this thread.

Piltdown and peking "man" and the others can be verified by anybody with a quick search, wiki has articles on them. Are you saying piltdown was real?

Nothing has been debunked. Whether you think you've debunked the polystrate tree webpage there are many pages about the polystrate and they are not locallized, they are found worldwide, often washed into regions as in a flood. The signifigance is larger than the polystrate for it mearly connects the layers of alleged time found in the geological column.

You really argue a dead argument, evolution has been debunked long ago, it is just being force-fed to the children today.

[Kiwi]

I dont know why you bother NAS...

This muppet, and others like him, are not gonna come round to evolution and science.

[Kregener]

Yet more proof that you are EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of your handle.

[White Rose Sophie]

I dont know why you bother NAS...

This muppet, and others like him, are not gonna come round to evolution and science.

If the theory of evolution is the actual basis of creation, then why are you lot so bothered about the NWO and the killing of 3000+ people on 9-11?

If man is just an evolved animal form, then human life has no value above the life of any other animal. And so survival of the fittest (for evolutionary purposes) is good, and Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Rockefeller, Prince Philip, Dr Death,  etc all had/have the right idea. 

[Kiwi]

sup kiwi.

i know, but i want to expose them for what they are: under educated on these topics and using flawed logic and bad sources to needlessly argue and in the process of doing so, dividing the truth movement into factional infighting.

im using the anti thesis to what they operate on. so they resort to calling me names, its pathetic.

i mean, i can understand parts of the bible are true. and that there is more in heaven and earth than man knows about. but this line of thinking they use to go against what is proven by saying that it says in the bible is so flawed.

it doesnt say in the bible anything about creationism except in genisis. genisis was not written by jesus or his ministry. the entire old testement prior to daniel can be thrown in the bin, its bs. and most of the new testement is mis qouted and mis translated. its not a valid source to use for scientific arguement.

but i digress. this thread has rules. so i warn myself.

they need not come around to evolution or science. but i will speak my mind and expose them for what they are: ignorant and out of their intellectual depth. also, non contributing time wasting zombies comes to mind. 

Sweet as Bro...

Yeah.

To me, Christianity is all about conduct. Thats walking the walk.

You're right - the bible is no basis for forming unattached, and objective, theories and propositions.

Nor does the forming of theories from biblical narrative equal the forming of theories from the philosophical method ie from unattached logic.

ps God invented logic - is logical - whatever 

[Kiwi]

If the theory of evolution is the actual basis of creation, then why are you lot so bothered about the NWO and the killing of 3000+ people on 9-11?

If man is just an evolved animal form, then human life has no value above the life of any other animal. And so survival of the fittest (for evolutionary purposes) is good, and Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Rockefeller, Prince Philip, Dr Death,  etc all had/have the right idea. 

Well, thats a bit simplistic...

Personally, and to be precise with my language, Im not saying evolution is the basis for the creation of life. However, increasingly (with the discovery of DNA and carbon dating etc) it is looking like the method of life's creation.

The strict bible-believers in this forum know that the theory of evolution directly contradicts the idea of the seven-day creation as expressed in Genesis. Therefore, if evolution is true, then the bible cannot be literally true. That is a problem to them.

Man is an "evolved animal form". But that's not so bad, because animals have souls too. Ever owned a pet???

Reasoning that "human life would then have no greater value than that of other animal" does not necessarily follow for me.

Nonetheless...so what??

Survival of the fittest is certainly an idea the elitists you mentioned have used to pursue their ends. Remember that they have used religion in this capacity also.

A theory should not be discarded simply by its (nefarious) association.  

[Kiwi]

Cheers 

[dogmadestroyer]

[old_meme]

[/old_meme]

You'd think given my tag line and such I'd want to get involved in this thread. Nope, I'm sick of having the same debate over and over and over again. This is a waste of time.

[LarryInColumbus]

Not a Shill,  You have fallen into a left / right paradigm.  Have you even considered that neither may be right?  Would you vote for Goolaini because Hitlary is more evil?

To address your phoney facts:
1) Those ages of billions of years are ALL based on theory not scientific facts.

FACT: We do not have a reliable dating method.  All forms of radioactive dating are unreliable and unscientific.  Every year the age of the universe grows about 1/2 billion years.  When were we corrrect?  Now, 10 years ago, 20 years from now?

FACT: Waterfalls have a known errosion rate.  If you calculate the years of errosion nearly all waterfalls date to about 5 thousand years.  That is Scientific

FACT: The sun is shrinking at a constant rate.  20 million years ago, it would have touched the earth.

FACT: At the current rate of errosion, everything on planet earth would be underwater in 16 million years

FACT: The Human DNA is decaying at a constant rate which indicates that the human race cannot last another 5,000 years.  Also it started about 6,000 years ago.  Population curves also support this time frame.

I could go on forever but...   You should get your facts straight.

In 1939 the German Parliment declared evoluton to be a fact.  It was part of the dehumanisaton effort.  It is easier to kill someone if they are 99% ape and a threat to the human race.

[Amishism]

FACT: you give no sources for your FACT

and your sources if you do give them will be churchy psuedoscience bs.

i gave sources that give empirical facts as evidence.not psuedoscience bs.

im done argueing, its not left right paradigm tho, its facts verses theorys.

AND WHY IS IT THAT YOU CREATIONISTS CAN ARGUE THESE POINTS BUT ANYONE WITH BETTER EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY IS CORRECT GETS CALLED A SHILL OR A TROLL? suss motherf*ckering fundementalist crap.

The links you provided only give the same flawed dating methods under refute by the original points I made, the polystrate tree ends the geocolumn (which is used at you link), and the radiometric dating errors I outlined (again used at your link). That was the two used to date the earth.
Stellar time is dated by the date of the earth. But it is best you learn the true age of what you can touch and test first without getting into stellar theory.

[White Rose Sophie]

no, human life has value, we are all human and should treat our whole species as extended family. social darwinism is wrong. it doesnt mean evolution is wrong, it means we shouldnt play god.

SMI2LE
space migration intelligence increase life extension.

their is purpose without dogma. its just the elites want it for themselves and dont want to share.

no, human life has value, we are all human and should treat our whole species as extended family.

Says who?  Who says that human life is more valuable than a capuchin monkey?  Or a cockroach?

The Bible does, of course, as does the Quran, but other than that?

[dogmadestroyer]

Like a rubber necker looking at a burning wreck on the highway I find myself coming back to this thread.

I really hate to admit that some of the stuff that Amishism and others are saying about anomalies which nullify the conventional theories of earth age and the history of humanity is correct. There are considerable problems with the current timeline and it is possible that  researchers like Micheal Cremo contending that life began in a similar manner to what the Hindu Vedas describes; a spontaneous devolution from spirit into matter could be more likely. However, its quite hard to substantiate for quite obvious reasons. What he does have is a pile of research which shows that we have many more questions than answers.

I think what was meant above by "left/right paradigm" is basically just referencing that both sides in this argument are talking about absolutes... no gray area. Just because batshit fundies find little anomolies and can correctly pigeonhole some little detail they think that they can all of a sudden say "This proves the Bible!!11 LOL"

The writers of the bible assumed that the earth was flat as it was the prevailing wisdom for every civilization in the Mediterranean at that time. Many of the passages show that the Christian and Judaic theory on the earth required it to be a flat disc with a tent of the sky overhead. Observe: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm Now if this was the divine, infallible account that it was supposed to be, then by the Christians' own logic it now nullifies the entire credibility of the bible. You cannot pick and choose aspects of cogent theories like that. My doing this is different from what the bible thumpers often do with archeology because I'm not immediately assuming some outcome with no connection to evidence. Doing so thereby uses an absence of evidence for the opposing side instead of positive evidence for their side.. You see? This polarization is quite similar to what people stuck on their party (left/right) and have blinders on do to rationalize their own construction of reality.

As for what I think: I'm not going to claim to have a definite answer because I have not researched enough other than to know that there is considerable evidence for the conventional view. If you look at the history of science, it shows a constant arrogance that it is on the cusp of knowing everything only to be trumped by an outsider again and again that tears up the greater part of their understanding only to build upon it slowly. If you look at the history of religion, it shows constant gerrymandering of the facts to fit their preconceived notions and making excuses after they eat their own words.

You ever think that these secret societies running the planet might just have something to their occult view of the past? Just because they are not in our best interest does not mean that it nullifies any of the knowledge being passed down from at least being considered and investigated.

That isn't the perfect post and I know I could/should write more but have more important things to do at the moment than argue over absolutes on the internet. Thoughts, comments, criticism anyone?

[Amishism]

YOU ARE SO VERY WRONG!

the polystrate tree is not a fossil. as i pointed out from the BIAS article on a BIAS website, in its very conclusion it says this cant be used in the age of earth arguement.
and "stellar time" is not measured by dateing the earth, unless you also think the earth formed before the rest of the universe.

redshift from light moving away is used, and its VERY precise.

ACTUALLY READ MY FIRST POSTS AND REBUTTALS!!

small qoute from article:
"3. Conclusion
The main point of this article is simply to update readers on the state of knowledge of the process of creating petrified wood. While it may not even be a relevant topic in the "age of the earth" debate, it may be important to recovering artifacts from the Great Flood. We are simply reporting that the actual process of petrification in nature is currently being observed to occur on the time scale of months, and that now scientists can successfully complete the process in a few days. So the next time you see some petrified wood, do not think "millions of years" but simply "years.""

Fossils Of Ancient Plants & Animals
"Plants that flourished on earth millions of years ago are perfectly preserved as fossils. In petrified wood, the tissue of ancient trees is completely replaced by minerals, converting trunks and branches into stone."

This is not a debate on what a petrified tree is. Quit trying to tell me what a fossil is.

All sides are BIASED. Evolution is not science being refuted theory. When I strike a match to produce fire that is observable science, these theories are based on many assumptions, all subject to opinion, they certainly are not fact, anyone claiming such is unscientific.

Explain the polystrate tree or the geocolumn dating method is destroyed. Another destroyer of the geocolumn is the universal chalk layer comprising single cell sea algae, used not only to determine there was a global flood, but how deep the water was and how long the entire earth was covered.

edit:

As discussed in Chalk Facts by C. S. Harris and Scholle et al. (1983), the Chalk Formation consists mostly of coccolith biomicrite. A biomicrite is a limestone composed of fossil debris ("bio") and calcium carbonate mud ("micrite"). The majority of the fossil debris comprising this chalk consists of the microscopic plates, which are called coccoliths, of microscopic green algae known as coccolithophores. In addition to the coccoliths, the fossil debris includes a variable, but minor, percentage of the fragments of foraminifera, ostracods, and mollusks. The coccolithophores lived in the upper part of the water column. When they died, the microscopic calcium carbonate plates, which formed their shells settled downward through the ocean water and accumulated on the ocean bottom to form a thick layer of calcareous ooze, which eventually became the Chalk Formation.

If the earth ws covered in water (and it was), how did life continue?

Earth used to date the universe (references at the bottom of the page). Keep in mind they have date the universe many times. Redshift expanding universe has its problems also.

[Amishism]

dogmadestroyer, nowhere in the bible is found the flat earth. Knowledge of the round earth geos way back and is in the bible. Round earth can be observed during an eclipse.

[dogmadestroyer]

dogmadestroyer, nowhere in the bible is found the flat earth. Knowledge of the round earth geos way back and is in the bible. Round earth can be observed during an eclipse.

If so, I'm open to hearing your argument. All I'm seeing at this point are descriptions of the earth in biblical verses that could only have been written from the perspective of the day that the earth was flat. But I have an open mind so shoot.

[PatriotX]

Amish man is correct about this one (regardless what the revisionist history may show).

Scripture does indeed admit that the 'Lord sits upon the circle of the Earth'.....(not exact quote)


Patriot X

(A little rubber necking never hurt anyone.  But your neck sure gets awful sore!)

[PatriotX]

ISAIAH 40:22.

"It is He who sits upon the circle of the earth....."

[dogmadestroyer]

Circle ≠ Sphere

Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”
1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”

No, seriously read my link above. I don't want gerrymandering of the Bible's account only addressing the earth being a circle.

The sky also happens to be represented by a tent or curtains hung over this immovable, flat earth and god resides in back of that tent... This sounds quite similar to the prevailing wisdom in Egypt and Greece positioning everything else as scenery around the earth..

[White Rose Sophie]

people who are not complete morons. people with families and relationships and emotions. 90 percent of the world, 10 percent being mentally ill psychos.

all life has value, but the ability to have higher brain functions makes us appreciate it. god is a construct to simplify the world for DUMBARSES.
the first paragraph qouted is true, but the anomolies as you put it are hardly reason to write off science as dogma, religion is dogma tho so i write that off completely.

people who are not complete morons. people with families and relationships and emotions. 90 percent of the world, 10 percent being mentally ill psychos.



Nice opinion (and generalization) but if you follow logically, then the 'majority' decide what has value, no? So, technically speaking, there is no absolute truth in regards to the value of life - it's just what the majority think?  What happens when the majority changes their mind about that? 

[PatriotX]

O.K.  I get it.  Circle = flat....
Curtains = drapes.  

etc.

Patriot X

[PatriotX]

religion = training wheels.

SPIRIT OF LOVE & TRUTH = GOD.


Patriot X

[dogmadestroyer]

religion = training wheels.

SPIRIT OF LOVE & TRUTH = GOD.


Patriot X

Ah! I agree! That is the only reason why I'm bothering to get involved in this discussion. 

[PatriotX]

Good to end on a good note!  I like agreement.


Patriot X 

[LJE]

The correct quote is as follows:

   Isaias 40:22

"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."

There would be a lot less confusion if correct translations of the Bible were used. This is from the Douay Rheims. All through the Bible the earth is referred to as a globe, sphere, as having poles, etc... The second part of this is not saying that the heavens are just a small tent for some mythical being to sleep in, it is using a symbolization showing the power that God has. In the first part it states His majesty as King of the World.

[dogmadestroyer]

The correct quote is as follows:

   Isaias 40:22

"It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as locusts: he that stretcheth out the heavens as nothing and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."

There would be a lot less confusion if correct translations of the Bible were used. This is from the Douay Rheims. All through the Bible the earth is referred to as a globe, sphere, as having poles, etc... The second part of this is not saying that the heavens are just a small tent for some mythical being to sleep in, it is using a symbolization showing the power that God has. In the first part it states His majesty as King of the World.

Ok, I'm open. Please direct me to what the correct translations are or where the bible mentions poles and such.

[LJE]

I had two sites with the Douay Rheims version online. Both sites are now gone, otherwise I would have given you a link. I spent a lot of time just now trying to find a new site but could not. I had to copy that from my personal copy. I do not know the Bible backwards and forward, so I can not immediately point you to other passages, but I will look for them and direct you to them.

[LarryInColumbus]

Not a Shill,  You have fallen into a left / right paradigm.  Have you even considered that neither may be right?  Would you vote for Goolaini because Hitlary is more evil?

To address your phoney facts:
1) Those ages of billions of years are ALL based on theory not scientific facts.

FACT: We do not have a reliable dating method.  All forms of radioactive dating are unreliable and unscientific.  Every year the age of the universe grows about 1/2 billion years.  When were we corrrect?  Now, 10 years ago, 20 years from now?

FACT: Waterfalls have a known errosion rate.  If you calculate the years of errosion nearly all waterfalls date to about 5 thousand years.  That is Scientific

FACT: The sun is shrinking at a constant rate.  20 million years ago, it would have touched the earth.

FACT: At the current rate of errosion, everything on planet earth would be underwater in 16 million years

FACT: The Human DNA is decaying at a constant rate which indicates that the human race cannot last another 5,000 years.  Also it started about 6,000 years ago.  Population curves also support this time frame.

I could go on forever but...   You should get your facts straight.

In 1939 the German Parliment declared evoluton to be a fact.  It was part of the dehumanisaton effort.  It is easier to kill someone if they are 99% ape and a threat to the human race.

FACT: you give no sources for your FACT

and your sources if you do give them will be churchy psuedoscience bs.

i gave sources that give empirical facts as evidence.not psuedoscience bs.

im done argueing, its not left right paradigm tho, its facts verses theorys.

AND WHY IS IT THAT YOU CREATIONISTS CAN ARGUE THESE POINTS BUT ANYONE WITH BETTER EVIDENCE THAT CLEARLY IS CORRECT GETS CALLED A SHILL OR A TROLL? suss motherf*ckering fundementalist crap.

#1 - I never expressed ANY dogma, just the science.  Nor did I get Churchy.
#2 - I never called you a Shill or Troll.  I do not know you well enough to make any such determination

Let's follow the rules of argumentation
#1 - I claim that there is no reliable dating method as of today.  That is a Gratuitous Assertion.  Name one and you prove me wrong.  The burden of proof falls upon you.  Please name just one and let me put it through the meat grinder.

#2 - Waterfall decay rates.  The largest / best known waterfalls, Niagara, Victoria, Iguassu are all eroding at a rate of about 1.5 feet per month.  You can plainly see on Google Earth where they started.  Do the math.  Show me one that is over 10,000 years old.  There should be quite a few if the earth is billions of years old. You will not be able to find one.

#3 - The sun is shrinking - I am guessing that you subscribe to Uniformatarionism if you believe the Billions of years. 
Reference:
Analyses of historical data suggest sun is shrinking
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1979PhT....32i..17L
Smithsonian/NASA ADS Astronomy Abstract Service / Harvard University (Not a bible college)

#4 - At the current rate of erosion... This is an argument which is inherently obvious and would be too long to address here.  I will if you wish but I think that it is obvious.

#5 - The Human DNA is decaying...
Reference:
“Mitochondrial DNA appears to mutate much faster than expected, prompting new DNA forensics procedures and raising troubling questions about the dating of evolutionary events.”
“...Regardless of the cause, evolutionists are most concerned about the effect of a faster mutation rate.  For example, researchers have calculated that "mitochondrial Eve"‑‑the woman whose mtDNA was ancestral to that in all living people‑‑lived 100,000 to 200,000 years ago in Africa. Using the new clock, she would be a mere 6000 years old…” 
Gibbons, Ann, “Calibrating the Mitochondrial Clock”, Science, Vol 279, No. 5347, Jan 1998, pp. 28 ‑ 29.(Not a religious publication)

If anything I stated is Churchy, or non-scientific, please point it out specifically.  I am trying to keep this debate scientific.

I did look at your references and they are great reading.  Most of them are based on assumptions such as the "Big Bang".  Take the first article, look at the changes in the "red shift" science. 

"In the theory of general relativity, there is time dilation within a gravitational well. This is known as the gravitational redshift or Einstein Shift". 

"The interactions and phenomena summarized in the subjects of radiative transfer and physical optics can result in shifts in the wavelength and frequency of electromagnetic radiation"

"In interstellar astronomy, visible spectra can appear redder due to scattering processes in a phenomenon referred to as interstellar reddening"

Now ask yourself two questions.  Do we know everything that there is to know about "red shift".  Secondly, does not this time frame calculated by the "red shift" require that everything had an original starting point.  Can't you see where the assumptions come in?  Einstein's "Original Event" question has never been answered.

Regarding the phony paradigm, just think about your position.  Are you saying because I am wrong that you must be right by default?  That is not reasonable.  Look at David Icke's position that evolution is a hoax and that we are so much more than a hybrid monkey.   He does not believe the bible.  What if he is right? 

Did you listen to Alex Jones today talking about Darwin.  He was the cousin to Edward Bernay and Sigmund Fruid.  They were very rich people who intend to control our lives.

[LarryInColumbus]

Not A Shill

I took the time to answer your questions with specific answers.  You on the other hand gave no response but to copy a bunch of crap from a web page and then tell me that you are right. 

Just to enlighten you a little, the speed of light in NOT a constant. 

Prof. Selim Shahriar Stops Light in its Tracks
In an experiment that received worldwide publicity late in 2001 and early
in 2002, Prof. Selim Shahriar and his research team succeeded in literally
stopping photons of light that normally travel through space at nature’s speed
limit of 186,000 miles per second.
http://129.105.5.1/news/newsletters/newsletter-08-2002.pdf

It is well known that we have varied the speed of light for years and have even stopped it.  The first premise of your argument is flawed.

I am trying to keep this debate scientific but you keep trying to make it a religious debate.  You keep saying that you have the FACTS but you are not able to defend your argument.  You just post some mumbo jumbo you found on a web page which I clearly demonstrated is flawed from its onset.

[LarryInColumbus]

...heres all arguements with unargurable evidence, the earth is at least 10000 years old and if you ignore stupid rebuttals (like the speed of light is not a constant, or...

  Emphasis added

Well it looks like you were corrected but you speak as if you were correct all along.

Your next error is that space is not a vacuum.  There is serious debate as to what is out there but there are no definitive answers.  The most popular theory is that most of space is made up of "Dark Matter".

Secondly, the distance calculations you use are not factual, they are estimates.  Parallax trigonometry is not accurate beyond 10 digits.  The Milky Way Galaxy is estimated to be 100,000 light years across.  100,000 light years = 587,850,000,000,000,000 miles.

One of the foremost Astronomers Alex Fillipenco PHD Berkley Univ did a teaching company series on Astronomy.  He plainly states that we just do not know how far away the stars are.  I would  suggest that you look into it because you clearly don't know what you are talking about.

I have repeatedly stated facts discovered by respected scientists.  Please state where I used conjecture.  The Web Page you posted first states a false premise and then builds an argument based upon the false premise.  That is a flawed argument.  It is easy to do the same with the rest of it because it is just a bunch of crap, plain and simple. 

The debate is not Science vs. Creation, it is you and your dumb-shit web page against respected science.  I think that by now I have made that perfectly clear.

The only reason that I am pursuing this debate is to prove to others just what knuckle-heads people like you are. 

[LarryInColumbus]

Nice concession speech

[Amishism]

The New Redshift Interpretation Affirmed
Robert V. Gentry
(arXiv:physics/9810051 26 Oct 1998)

For almost seven decades cosmologists have assumed the universe is governed by Friedmann-Lemaitre expanding-spacetime general relativity, and that both the Hubble relation and the 2.7K CBR have their origin in redshifts due to universal spacetime expansion. A widely accepted corollary of this belief has been that no other explanation of the Hubble relation and the 2.7K CBR is possible except that due to expansion redhifts.

Despite its long acceptance, this corollary was recently shown to be incorrect when I reported the discovery [1] of A New Redshift Interpretation (NRI) of the Hubble relation and the 2.7K CBR based on the premise that the universe is governed by Einstein's static-spacetime general relativity, rather than Friedmann-Lemaitre expanding-spacetime general relativity. In the NRI's Einstein framework the redshifts responsible for the Hubble relation and the 2.7K CBR are a combination of relativistic Doppler and gravitational effects rather than being attributed to Friedmann-Lemaitre spacetime expansion. The discovery of the NRI naturally raised the question of whether the universe is governed by the Einstein static-spacetime paradigm, or by the Friedmann-Lemaitre expanding spacetime paradigm.

To answer this crucially important cosmological question I subsequently compared the general relativistic predictions of both paradigms, and made a second discovery—namely, that the results of several general relativistic experiments provide proof that the universe is governed by Einstein's static-spacetime general relativity, not Friedmann-Lemaitre expanding spacetime general relativity [2]. As of early October 1998 I am unaware of any attempt to refute this second discovery.
*This paper was posted on what was then the Los Alamos National Laboratory E-Print arXive: physics/9810051 as yet unrefuted.


Dr. Robert Gentry has made a film entitled:
Center of the Universe
http://www.halos.com/videos/streaming-video.htm

[Amishism]

Evidence for a Young World/Universe
by Dr. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D., ICR associate professor of physics

1. Galaxies wind themselves up too fast.
2. Too few supernova remnants.
3. Comets disintegrate too quickly.
4. Not enough mud on the sea floor.
5. Not enough sodium in the sea.
6. The earth’s magnetic field is decaying too fast.
7. Many strata are too tightly bent.
8. Biological material decays too fast.
9. Fossil radioactivity shortens geologic “ages” to a few years.
10. Too much helium in minerals.
11. Too much carbon 14 in deep geologic strata.
12. Not enough Stone Age skeletons.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4005.asp

EVIDENCE FOR CREATION

1. The Fossil Record...Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance.1" "The lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."2 This supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "To the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." 3

2. Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the molecules necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

3. The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.8

4. Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.

5. Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form.

6. Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.11

7. Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.12

8. Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.

9. Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 4,478,296 .17

10. Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so.21

1Woodmorappe, John, "The Essential Non-Existence of the Evolutionary Uniformitarian Geologic Column: A Quantitative Assessment," Creation Research Society Quarterly, vol. 18, no.1 (Terre Haute, Indiana, June 1981),pp. 46-71

2 Nilsson, N. Heribert, as quoted in Arthur C. Custance, The Earth Before Man, Part II, Doorway Papers, no. 20 (Ontario, Canada: Doorway Publications), p. 51

3Corner, E.J.H., Contemporary Botanical Thought, ed. A.M. MacLeod and L.S. Cobley (Chicago: Quadrangle Books, 1961), p. 97

4Barnes, Thomas, ICR Technical Monograph #4, Origin and Destiny of the Earth's Magnetic Field (2nd edition, 1983)

5Blick, Edward, A Scientific Analysis of Genesis (Oklahoma City: Hearthstone, 1991) p. 103

6Clark, M.E. and Voss, H.D., "Fluid Mechanic Examination of the Tial Mechanism for Producing Mega-Sedimantary Layering" (Third International Conference on Creation, Pittsburg, July 1994)

7Ager, Derek, The Nature of the Stratigraphical Record (New York: John Wiley and Sons) p. 43 and p. 86

8West, John Anthony, Serpent in the Sky: The High Wisdom of Ancient Egypt (New York: Julian Press, 1987) pp. 13-14

9 See Morris, Henry, Scientific Creationism (El Cajon, CA: Master Books)

10Gentry, Robert, Creation's Tiny Mystery (Knoxville, Tenn.: Earth Science Assoc.,1988)

11 Baugh, Carl, Why Do Men Believe Evolution AGAINST ALL ODDS? (Oklahoma City: Hearthstone, 1999)

12Cook, Melvin, "Where is The Earth's Radiogenic Helium?" Nature, Vol. 179, p. 213

13Cowan, R., "Further Evidence of a Youthful Universe," Science News, Vol. 148, p. 166

14Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22

15Humphries, Russell, Starlight and Time (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1994)

16Denton, Michael, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (Bethesda, Maryland: Adler & Adler, 1986) p. 263

17 Mastropaolo, Joseph, "Evolution Is Biologically Impossible," Impact # 317 (El Cajon, CA: Institute For Creation Research,1999) p. 4

18Restak, Richard, The Brain: The Last Frontier, 1979, p. 390

19The Brain, Our Universe Within, PBS Video

20Wonders of God's Creation, Moody Video Series

21Weiss, Joseph, "Unconscious Mental Functioning," Scientific American, March 1990, p. 103
http://www.creationevidence.org

[Amishism]

Fossilized Hammer:(high res. pic)
Found in a formation famous for its dinosaurs, supposed to be 140 million years old (lower cretaceous).

The wood handle is partially coalifed with quartz and calcite crystalline inclusions. Tests performed at Battelle Laboratory document the hammer’s unusual metallurgy, 96% iron, 2.6% chlorine and .74% sulfur (no carbon). Density test indicate casting of exceptional quality. A unique coating of FeO, which does not readily form under present atmospheric conditions, appears to inhibit rusting.

The enclosing rock contains Lower Cretaceous fossils. It is a concretionary sandstone nodule from the nearby cliff which is made up of concretionary sandstone nodules.

The Lower Cretaceous Edwards Plateau which evolutionists tell us was formed 140 million years ago, when dinosaurs roamed the earth. Of course, the coexistence of humans and dinosaurs would destroy evolutionary theory, so maybe the hammer was made by dinosaurs. Do you really think so?



Giant Oysters:
Giant, fossilized oysters, over 500 of them have been found nearly two miles above sea level in the Andes mountains of Peru.

The bi-valve, ocean dwelling mollusks indicate quite obviously that at one time, despite the high altitude, that these mountains had once been under water—as would happen in say—a worldwide flood.

The fossils were found by Cuban paleontologist, Arturo Vildozola near the town of Acostambo in January of 2001. The fossilized oysters (Plagiostoma giganteum) reached a width of 12 feet and weighed up to 650 pounds.

notice: the oysters are in the closed position, unnatural, indicating rapid deposition of sediment that did then fossilize the spectaculare ocean life.

[Amishism]

Christianity is not pagan, there is no paganism in the bible. Christianity is just a continuation of the religion of Moses and before him Noah.

There have always been two religions from CREATION, knowledge and worship of our Creator and Satans paganism deception that included evolution.


The Heinous Nazi Ideology and the Hypothesis of Evolution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADixIqj8XyA


Impact of the Hypothesis of Evolution on Marxism & Communism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMZRYMlv9tU


If this were only a debate about evolution and science it would have no place here and would be un-needed devision, but the evolution debate is not just about science, it is also about religion and marxism, all having to do with the Vatican ran NWO, which is no more than the revived Holy Roman Empire using a Scientific Dictatorship.



If you follow the chart you can see how coming out of Babylon and Kabbalism came many of the pagan religions, this includes pagan Rome with it's Babylonian idols.

Rome created Islam.

Islam . . . the best enemy money can buy!!

Mohammad was 25 years old when he married a 40 year old rich widow named Khadija. She was an ex-nun and her rich backers had BIG plans for Mohammad.

There are so many similarities between the religion of Mohammad and the Vatican that we can only name a few for now.

Both religions believe in using FORCE to spread their version of the one true god to the unbelievers.

Both religions believe in a union with the State or of using the police powers of the State to compel obedience to their tenets.

Both religions have a "holy" shrine in which the believers are taught to look to as their headquarters e.g. Mecca and the Vatican.

Since Islam and the Vatican have so many similarities we don't have to look very far to find their common origin as long as we know a little about the Bible and history!!
http://reformation.org/vatican-and-islam.html

Total Onslaught - The Islamic Connection
Prof. Walter Veith
gives shows much more symbolism in Islam
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-8123863671663916724

Since the French revolution these pagans running the world have been indoctrinating the people into atheism/reason.

The MYSTERY BABYLON system above only confirms the bible which describes these very BEAST. Religion is reality, choose your sides wisely.

Nazis: The Occult Conspiracy part 1of 2
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=4360800110742625275

Nazis: The Occult Conspiracy part 2of 2
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-3797889292300937848

The Occult History of the Third Reich Adolf Hitler
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=3014581497309209211

Satanism: Satan's Bloody Teaching
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-7264206937159538355

[LarryInColumbus]

conjecture:
1obsolete a: interpretation of omens b: supposition
2 a: inference from defective or presumptive evidence b: a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork c: a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conjecture


Well Shill, it looks like you wish to persue your arguements with conjecture rather than scientific fact. 
IE  The speed of light is a constant therefore...  -- I have proven scientifically that the speed of light is not a constant
Space is a vacuum  -- Space is not a vacuum --
Wikipedia - Dark matter - ...According to present observations of structures larger than galaxies, as well as Big Bang cosmology, dark matter accounts for the vast majority of mass in the observable universe.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

ScienceDaily.com has an entire section called Dark Matter and Dark Energy News.  http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/space_time/dark_matter/ 
But I guess that they are zelots too.

You continue to espouse your DOGMA but you have yet to advance a single scientific argument.  I have clearly demonstrated scientificly that your arguments are clearly conjecture.  I have not advanced a single religeous point, all are scientific and yet you call me a zelot.

You do not have a single scientific fact to defend your silly position.  You have a religion and it is called "Social Darwinism"

[LJE]

Shill, you provide evolutionary theory as proof (notice the word "theory"), this so called theory been proven false time and time again. The people promoting this theory are the ones behind the curtain (ie; NWO, International Bankers, Communists, etc...) and anyone else who has a vendetta against God. You asked for scientific proof, Amishism gave you some. You did not even acknowledge anything he provided to you.  Go research the radio halos and polonuim-214. If the granite is heated these halos disappear. If granite was formed the way you say it was then there would be no polonuim-214 found in any granite anywhere in the world. Polonuim-214 has been found in every piece of granite ever analyzed by scientists.
Your scientists that are for the theory of evolution do not follow the scientific method. They only look for and only accept the proof that they need to fit into their little theory. Evolutionists have been caught many times over trying to tout bones from animals fused to human bones as proof of evolution. Evolution has no proof, nothing to back it up, evolution does not even have sound logic. Every time something comes up that contradicts what they preach, they change the age of the earth or the age of humans or the age of the universe. A few years ago evolutionists told us the earth was a few hundred million years old, now we are told over 4.5 billion years old! So much for concrete evidence, you can't just add millions or billions of years to counteract facts that keep exposing the evolutionary theory as a hoax.

[dogmadestroyer]

Ah, on the note of dumb zealots. Where is that allegedly correct translation where the bible doesn't clearly say the earth is flat???

[Amishism]

the internet is still writing the updates. i think i heard that google has all the answers, and we all know you can safely believe everything you read. 

hey man, they worship a book about talking snakes and beastitality, show me the translation that lists the author of genisis, if it was "adam" did he have a last name?
and what about the thing about noah living for 800 years?
the tower of babel reaching to heaven? well we have space shuttles and space stations above what any tower could reach, we send probes out past pluto, how tall was that tower going to be?
and we're is the evidence of sodom getting turned to salt? ive seen salt lakes but thats hardly a city thats evaporated water.

they may as well believe in scientology, its a complete sham to.

Why don't you and the rest of the dumb pagans go back and answer the first post of mine, this time with no deceptive legal-eze that has no place in a science debate.

The Physical remains of Sodom and Gomorrah

Pictures of the sulfur that caused the 4-5000 degrees necessary to ionize the stone structures that once were these two cities.


The sulfur is over 90% pure and still flammable as found nowhere on earth.


There are no volcanoes anywhere in the vicinity, maybe there was 3900 years ago.


The Physical remains of Sodom and Gomorrah - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQHQ992Wnw

It's been there all along, but like science you are not looking for it.
Sodom and Gomorrah discovered long ago
www.wyattmuseum.com

[White Rose Sophie]

this thread is proof that you cannot win a debate with zealots.



the hammer: things move in the earth, it probally sunk as the layer it settled in rose.

the shells above sea level: again, the earth moves, continental shelves colliding probally pushed them up from a much lower position.


most importantly, you are the reason the elite control the world, its a classic shell game. hide the truth, then pose a false truth to be taken by the masses. in this case, hide the science of life and create people ready to die for a god that has no proof of existance. your no different to a muslim extremist, and the first christian fundementalist to blow himself up and leave a letter attacking 9/11 will be the one that has everybody point to the amount of fundis in the truth movement and has it declared a crime to partake in or discuss. so thank you for eternal enslavement of humanity that you dont believe is possible as a god is coming to save you and topple satan. both of which dont exist and its just men being evil men lusting for greed and power and eternal youth and noone is comming for any of us.

religion murdered the human race. well done arseholes. you win your arguement by ignoring the truth to believe a myth and make us all look like radicals and end the chance to out these bastards before they nuke us. there is only two options for you: 1) you are idiots 2)you are paid trolls.

Oh my goodness, don't know WHERE to begin with this.

You never answered my question Shill...if mankind "evolved' from animals (who evolved from single-cell organisms I assume) why is 'killing' another human forbidden, stealing, lying, etc?  I don't understand?  Why are those things wrong?  Adultery/Incest/Rape - why is that wrong?  Animals mate with whomever they wish.

I love it when people claim that MAN invented 'religion' GOD, etc.....then complain about how 'religion' has caused all the misery in the world.  HAhahahaha.  Yet again....MAN refuses to accept the responsibility for his own wickedness and instead blames "Religion".  Which (according to you) he created.