NATO strike? Polish elite assassinated in downed plane for not accepting €Euro

[Kilika]

I assume the Russians can still afford to run voice recordings of air traffic control? But seeing it is a military base, I suspect that would be "classified". No question radar would tell if that plane was diverted 4 times.

This guy claiming Russia was behind it is a standard expectation. Of course somebody is gonna yell "They did it!". Now that the outburst is over, get down to proving facts. Underhandedness can't hide from the truth, wherever it may be, but militaries can sure put a lid on evidence for "national security" reasons.

[Monkeypox]

Seriously, what government in their right mind would almost all their highest ranking officials get on the same airplane! 

Especially a crappy old Russian POS.

[trailhound]

 
 Im having a hard time believing that in 2010 the lives of those important people were left to human error of a pilot.  We have planes that fly themselves and fog is not a problem for such planes because they dont use human eyes to navigate. Fog? Are you f**king kidding me?  Fog killed the polish leadership? 

[Kilika]

Well, to hear the Russians tell it, it was a bad pilot that was scared he'd get in trouble for not landing on time.

[citizenx]

I would take the official (Russian) explanation with a big grain of salt.  I have never said that it was necessariy the Russians alone, but I don't think anyone could have puled this off in Putin's Russia without his knowledge and (at least tacit) approval.

Now, whether EU officials, Belarus, NATO officials, others were involved, I do not know.  It s certainly possible, plausible.

CIA involvement, at least directly, would make very little sense, however, given Kaczynski's very public pro-U.S. (anti-Russian) positions.  U.S. is one party that would seem to lack a motive in all this.

Looks like it could have been an EU (German?)/Russian joint plan.  Russia and Germany would have benefited from the planned pipeline Kaczynski opposed.

If this was a NATO op. one would have to explain how op.'s could have gotten around U.S. officials who would be very unlikely to have signed off on this thing given the U.S. is still large and in charge, for the most part, within NATO.

[Dig]

I would take the official (Russian) explanation with a big grain of salt.  I have never said that it was necessariy the Russians alone, but I don't think anyone could have puled this off in Putin's Russia without his knowledge and (at least tacit) approval.

Now, whether EU officials, Belarus, NATO officials, others were involved, I do not know.  It s certainly possible, plausible.

CIA involvement, at least directly, would make very little sense, however, given Kaczynski's very public pro-U.S. (anti-Russian) positions.  U.S. is one party that would seem to lack a motive in all this.

Looks like it could have been an EU (German?)/Russian joint plan.  Russia and Germany would have benefited from the planned pipeline Kaczynski opposed.

If this was a NATO op. one would have to explain how op.'s could have gotten around U.S. officials who would be very unlikely to have signed off on this thing given the U.S. is still large and in charge, for the most part, within NATO.

US is in charge of NATO?

Not a chance.

Britain-Netherlands-Germany-France/Italy...

but it is not countries, it is the elite manipulators who are mostly bankers/royals. NATO executed Aldo Moro. There is strong evidence that french assassin teams (NATO assets) were the ones that took the kill shot.

The president loved the US, was vocal against Russia, but actually threatened the survival of the EU (mainly through their central bank).

Like with Lincoln and Kennedy, it was the financial risks to the bankers/royals and their debt slavery system that enacts such activities.

Also like with JFK, many sub groups get their hands dirty. I suspect that Putin might have done some orders to deal with the ego of this guy, but just like during a war game, all of a sudden, the magic hand of the illuminati (via Ptech or 200 other methods) makes the whole thing go live. 

The biggest loser if the president stayed alive might have been belarus and they have motive. month or two earlier NATO cammanders were running drills in Belarus and Belarus for the last few weeks were arresting Poles onsight for trumped up charges (worried about possible spies?).

what is very telling is that the pro-euro PM came out and said Putin is to blame. That is very interesting seeing as he was the one who most benefited from the president out of the way (and head of the central bank). Of course by terminating all military leaders, no chance they can force the PM to obey the past president'sdirections for the welfare of the polish people.

[citizenx]

ACO Allied Commander - Europe
Admiral James G. Stavrides (USN)

In charge of NATO military operations (not training/transformation) in Europe.

This is one American who would have been in the loop, ostensibly.

[Dig]

ACO Allied Commander - Europe
Admiral James G. Stavrides (USN)

In charge of NATO military operations (not training/transformation) in Europe.

This is one American who would have been in the loop, ostensibly.

yeah and Obama is the commander in chief.

The allied commander takes orders from the "owners" of NATO. And the owners decide what to say and when to say it. BTW, here is just a little history of another allied commander whose appearance in front of the camera and behind the scenes are very different. I never heard of that guy and the media never mentioned him. i am not sure what he actually does, but this guy'shistory is all too apparent:


http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=16663

Like Bill Clinton, Wesley was a Rhodes Scholar at Oxford. While Clinton spent his time in sexual dalliances (and one alleged rape) and leading anti-American demonstrations in Europe and visiting the Kremlin in the dead of winter by special invitation, Clark was more studious. In August 1968 he emerged with a Master’s Degree in philosophy, politics and economics. 

The Rhodes Scholarships had been set up by British imperialist Cecil Rhodes to educate the brightest American youngsters in England, a once-secret codicil in his will made clear, so that they would go home and help bring America back under the political sway of the British Empire.

Wesley Clark’s career in the U.S. military was solid but not stellar. It included a variety of backwater assignments as well as one high point, White House Fellow 1975-76.

But an unexpected bolt from the blue suddenly ignited Clark’s life, turning mediocrity into a skyrocket ride that could yet land him in the Oval Office.  He was named Commander of the 1st Cavalry Division, III Corps, at sweltering Fort Hood southwest of Waco, Texas.

On a late winter day in 1993, Texas Governor Ann Richards suddenly called the base, later meeting with Clark’s Number Two to discuss an urgent matter.  Crazies at a Waco compound had killed Federal agents.  If newly-sworn-in President Bill Clinton signed a waiver setting aside the Posse Comitatus Act, which generally prohibits the military from using its arms against American citizens within our borders, could Fort Hood supply tanks and other equipment?

Clinton did. Wesley Clark’s command at Fort Hood “lent” 17 pieces of armor and 15 active service personnel under his command to the Waco Branch Davidian operation. It is absolute fact that the military equipment used by the government at Waco came from Fort Hood and Clark’s command. 

The only issue debated by experts is whether Clark was at Waco in person to help direct the assault against the church compound in a scene remarkably similar to the incineration of villagers in a church by the British in Mel Gibson’s movie “The Patriot.”

What happened at Waco was the death, mostly by fire, of at least 82 men, women and children, including two babies who died after being “fire aborted” from the dying bodies of their pregnant mothers.

Planning for this final assault involved a meeting between Clinton Attorney General Janet Reno and two military officers who developed the tactical plan used but who have never been identified. 

Some evidence and analysis suggests that Wesley Clark was one of these two who devised what happened at Waco. 

As Leftist journalists Alexander Cockburn and Jeffrey St. Clair noted, the ruthless tactics and attitude on display at Waco are strikingly similar to those Clark has used on other battlefields in his career.

Odd, isn’t it, that the Leftist establishment press has told you nothing about the connection between General Wesley Clark and Waco – or what happened to him immediately after the service he rendered the Clintons at Waco?

Immediately after Waco, Wesley Clark’s flat career began an incredible meteoric rise.

In April 1994 he was promoted to Director of Strategic Plans and Policy for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 

In June 1996 Clark was named Commander in Chief of the U.S. Southern Command in Panama and put in charge of most U.S. forces in all of Latin America and the Caribbean. 

In June 1997 President Clinton appointed him Commander in Chief of the United States European Command and SACEUR, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, in command of the forces of NATO, a position Clark would hold until May 2000.

As SACEUR General Wesley Clark would collect a truckload of honors. He would also prosecute Clinton’s war siding with Muslim Kosovars against Serbian Christians in the Balkans.

This war was largely fought from high altitude aircraft to minimize American casualties, an approach that increased civilian casualties on the ground.  Clark soon acquired a reputation as someone who lied about such casualties, lies reported even by Time Magazine.

Democrats who support Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich for their anti-war stance should know that when Russians landed and took over one provincial airport in the region, General Clark commanded British forces to attack the Russians.  British General Sir Mike Jackson reportedly refused, saying: “I’m not going to start the Third World War for you!”

Would peacenik Democrats really want General Wesley Clark, with a reputation for brutal and erratic behavior, one of those behind the events at Waco, to be only a heartbeat away from having his finger on the nuclear button?  If he were Vice President, how safe would a liberal President be from attacks by fanatic former combat veterans?  Can you take the risk of electing General Clark as your Vice President?

And then there is the underside of the Clark family with its faint whiff of disreputability. His son Wesley Clark, Jr., exaggerated his Hollywood credentials (he apparently worked briefly with Danny DeVito’s production company) to get a lucrative contract from the Bosnian government to make an epic film about the siege of Sarajevo.

Much money was funneled into Wesley, Jr.’s, bank account for that film, but little of quality was produced. The situation apparently never quite crossed the line into clear illegality – like former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean’s son admitting that he drove the getaway car in a burglary. But the Bosnian government at the very least got badly shortchanged by Clark’s misrepresentation.  Like father, like son?

“Known by those who’ve served with him as the ‘Ultimate Perfumed Prince,’” writes veteran military combat soldier and journalist Col. David Hackworth about Gen. Wesley Clark, “he’s far more comfortable in a drawing room discussing political theories than hunkering down in the trenches where bullets fly and soldiers die.”

Clark’s nickname among soldiers under his command reportedly was “the Supreme Being.”  And that was when Clark was only a general or even lower-ranking officer.  What would he expect us to call him if he became Commander-in-Chief?

[Dig]

This is how things go down and the true chain of command...

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ST/

[citizenx]

Well, if that was the case, the U.S./CIA must have known and stood there with their thumb up their posteriors, while one of their staunchest suppporters in Eastern Europe was killed.  This would at least be very mysterious.

As for Belarus, isn't it more or less a puppet state of Russia, don't they have some sort of unification agreement right now, despite Belarus's outward "independence"?  Would Belarus really have been acting independent of Russia/Putin?

[Dig]

Well, if that was the case, the U.S./CIA must have known and stood there with their thumb up their posteriors, while one of their staunchest suppporters in Eastern Europe was killed.  This would at least be very mysterious.

As for Belarus, isn't it more or less a puppet state of Russia, don't they have some sort of unification agreement right now, despite Belarus's outward "independence"?  Would Belarus really have been acting independent of Russia/Putin?

well the pro US CIA took out JFK on behalf of the bankers.

the secret team explains that the actions are not in the interest of the country. they are in the interest of elite chessplayers who are basically drug runners and slave traders). we could have had china as an ally, but rockefeller supported mao to manufacture a threat that previouslly did not exist.

this is the nature of controlling the masses, creating threats. the president may have been our ally, but he was freeing his people, that made him a threat to the elite bankers/owners of the US like rockefeller

[worcesteradam]

comment on Damian Thompsons blog

"What feeds this situation is that Polish National TV has already reported journalists’ cameras have been confiscated by the Russian military. One reporter who was interviewed said that there was no fog when the plane attempted to land."

[citizenx]

That's what I was wondering about.  How real was the fog?

[worcesteradam]

if they lied about the fog then it was a definate elite inside job

lying like that is their classic m.o.
It would then have all the hallmarks of a nwo hit

[trailhound]

if they lied about the fog then it was a definate elite inside job

lying like that is their classic m.o.
It would then have all the hallmarks of a nwo hit

trailhound wrote

Fog? Are you f**king kidding me?  Fog killed the polish leadership?

[Kilika]

Fog didn't kill anyone. It was that sudden stop that did it.

[Brocke]

That's what I was wondering about.  How real was the fog?

A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

In theory, this can be just as easily termed an assassination of the Polish leadership by the evidence which is reported.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.

Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.

Is it possible to rip GPS satellites? If one recalls the information on this blog, in last Christmas, there were several reports of people being lost using GPS, that indicates it is quite possible to rig satellites or influence their data in shifting the grid.
That is a fact, and if it happens in Washington, America, then it can happen in Smolensk, Russia with an airliner if people with assets desire such an outcome. A lost car is a lost plane, in that all satellites are jigged to not be precise, so enemies of the United States can not fly missiles through our windows.
Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.



The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.

The Russians were far too immediate in pointing the fingers at the Poles. Furthermore it was reported this interesting quote:

The crash occurred three days after Putin and Tusk attended a joint memorial for the Katyn victims. The event was seen as a huge symbolic advance in Russia's often thorny relations with Poland.

Tusk is the Polish opposition to the current dead President Kaczynski, along with the entire Polish leadership in military, political and security circles.
How convenient like the current Putin puppet in the Ukraine that all were making nice just before their respective governments turned over from pro American political leadership.

There was no fog and is forecast no fog in Smolensk for the following week after this event of immediate dense fog, but yet the conditions with an east wind showed clear skies, without the heat to burn off fog during the day.



All of this appears to convenient in getting rid of a Polish government which Mr. Obama cast to the wind and the Russians were pointing nuclear missiles at.

I do not believe in coincidences and when one has heaps of coincidences piling up that puts a Polish assassination theory into a Polish assassination reality.

Could this be done by the Russian government? Yes.

Does this belong in the realm of the FBI, Polish security, French intelligence and British MI5? Most definitely.

Let this be investigated and not trusted to Russian mechanics servicing Polish Presidential planes and then Putin pointing fingers at Poles as he makes Obama buddies with the Polish opposition days before this happens.

[Dig]

Fog didn't kill anyone. It was that sudden stop that did it.

we do not even know that. the guy was there within minutes. no bodies. all the details are sketchy.

[Brocke]

Passenger list (google translation)

Lista osób na pok?adzie Tupolewa- Onet.pl - Wiadomo?ci -10.04.2010

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1st Mr Ryszard Kaczorowski, former president of Poland in Exile

2nd Mr. Krzysztof Putra Sejm Marshal

3rd Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski Sejm Marshal

4th Krystyna Bochenek Deputy Senate

5th BAHR Jerzy Ambassador of the Russian Federation

6th Mr. Wladyslaw STASIAK Chief Presidential Chancellery

7th Mr. Aleksander Szczyglo Head of National Security

8th Mr. Paul WYPYCH Secretary of State in the President's Chancellery

9th Mariusz Handzlik Undersecretary of State in the President's Chancellery

10th Mr. Andrzej Kremer, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs

11th Mr. Stanisław Komorowski, Undersecretary of State in the Defence

12th Mr. Tomasz Merta Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Culture

13th Gen. Francis Gągor Chief of General Staff of Polish Army

14th Mr Andrew CARRIER Secretary ROPWiM

15th Mr. Maciej Plazynski President of the Association "Polish Community"

16th Mariusz KAZANA MFA Diplomatic Protocol Director

PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVES RP

1st Mr. Leszek Deptuła deputy to the Sejm

2nd Mr. Gregory Dolniak deputy to the Sejm

3rd Ms. Grazyna Gęsicka deputy to the Sejm

4th Mr. Przemyslaw Gosiewski deputy to the Sejm

5th Lord Sebastian KARPINIUK deputy to the Sejm

6th Ms. Izabela Jaruga - Nowacka Deputy to the Sejm

7th Mr. Zbigniew Wassermann deputy to the Sejm

8th Ms. Alexander Natallia - WORLD Member of the Sejm

10th Mr. Arkadiusz Rybicki deputy to the Sejm

11th Jolanta Szymanek - Deresz Member of the Sejm

12th Wiesław WATER deputy to the Sejm

13th Mr. Edward Wojtas deputy to the Sejm

14th Janina FETLIŃSKA Senator RP

15th Mr. Stanislaw ZAJAC Senator RP

ACCOMPANYING PERSONS

1st Mr. Janusz Kochanowski Ombudsman

2nd Mr Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the Polish National Bank

3rd Janusz Kurtyka President of the Institute of National Remembrance

4th Janusz Krupski Director of the Office for War Veterans and Repressed Persons

REPRESENTATIVES Churches and Religious Affairs

1st Fr. Bp. Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz Ploski Ordinary of the Polish Army

2nd Archbishop Brig. Miron Chodakowski Orthodox Ordinary Polish Army

3rd Fr. Col. Adam Pilch Field Protestant Chaplaincy

4th Fr. Lt. Col. John OSIŃSKI Ordinariate of the Polish Army

Katyn Families REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER SOCIETIES

1st Mr. Edward Duchnowski Secretary General of Association of Siberian Deportees

2nd Fr. Monsignor Bronislaw Gostomski

3rd Fr. Association President Joseph Joniec Parafiada

4th Fr. Zdzislaw KING Chaplain Warsaw Katyn Families 1987-2007

5th Fr. Chaplain Andrew Kwasnik Federation of Katyn Families

6th Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI

7th Bozena Łojek President of the Polish Foundation for Katyn

8th Mr. Stefan Melaka Katyn Committee Chairman

9th Mr. Stanisław Mikke Vice ROPWiM

10th Mrs. Bronislaw Orawiec - Löffler

11th Ms. Catherine Piskorska

12th Mr Andrew SARIUSZ - SKĄPSKI President of the Federation of Katyn Families

13th Mr Wojciech SEWERYN

14th Mr. Leszek Solski

15th Ms. Teresa Walewska - PRZYJAŁKOWSKA Foundation Golgotha of the East "

16th Ms. Gabriela Zych

17th Ewa Bąkowska granddaughter Brig. Mieczyslaw Smorawinski

18th Mrs. Maria Borowska

19th Mr. Bartosz BOROWSKI

20th Dariusz MALINOWSKI

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES RP

1st Gen. Bronislaw KWIATKOWSKI Operational Commander of Polish Armed Forces

2nd Gen. pil. Andrew Błasik Polish Air Force Commander

3rd Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz BUK Commander of Land Forces of Poland

4th Maj.-Gen. Vladimir POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces Commander

5th Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta Commander Navy

6th Brig. Kazimierz GILARSKI Commander Training Centre

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-4.html

[agentbluescreen]

A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.

Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.


Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.



The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.

Well Hanni Hanjour is reputed to have flown a 757 at grass-blade high "altitude" (supposedly under 3 inches) across the Pentagon lawn for the the length of a football field, so in our post-911 world, altitude should not have been a problem....

This HUGE altitude of 100' should be lotsa room...

/sarcasm

[jerryweaver]

Will this action wake more people up to the planetary danger we all face? I think so. The IMF is losing credibility with each staged murder it seems. More people will choose to step into the light and rediscover their courage IMHO. Any thoughts on that?

[agentbluescreen]

When a jet airliner gets below a hundred feet with no gear down or thrust reversers deployed, a light comes on over a keyboard on the dash that says "Please Enter The Number of Body Bags"

[Femacamper]

When a jet airliner gets below a hundred feet with no gear down or thrust reversers deployed, a light comes on over a keyboard on the dash that says "Please Enter The Number of Body Bags"

LOL...that's almost true. Some skilled pilots can land planes without the landing gear, depending on what terrain you have below.

Concrete would be a b**ch, though.

[Femacamper]

Will this action wake more people up to the planetary danger we all face? I think so. The IMF is losing credibility with each staged murder it seems. More people will choose to step into the light and rediscover their courage IMHO. Any thoughts on that?

They're probably gonna false-flag nuke us into submission.

[Femacamper]

Passenger list (google translation)

Lista osób na pok?adzie Tupolewa- Onet.pl - Wiadomo?ci -10.04.2010

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1st Mr Ryszard Kaczorowski, former president of Poland in Exile

2nd Mr. Krzysztof Putra Sejm Marshal

3rd Mr. Jerzy Szmajdzinski Sejm Marshal

4th Krystyna Bochenek Deputy Senate

5th BAHR Jerzy Ambassador of the Russian Federation

6th Mr. Wladyslaw STASIAK Chief Presidential Chancellery

7th Mr. Aleksander Szczyglo Head of National Security

8th Mr. Paul WYPYCH Secretary of State in the President's Chancellery

9th Mariusz Handzlik Undersecretary of State in the President's Chancellery

10th Mr. Andrzej Kremer, Undersecretary of State for Foreign Affairs

11th Mr. Stanisław Komorowski, Undersecretary of State in the Defence

12th Mr. Tomasz Merta Undersecretary of State in the Ministry of Culture

13th Gen. Francis Gągor Chief of General Staff of Polish Army

14th Mr Andrew CARRIER Secretary ROPWiM

15th Mr. Maciej Plazynski President of the Association "Polish Community"

16th Mariusz KAZANA MFA Diplomatic Protocol Director

PARLIAMENT REPRESENTATIVES RP

1st Mr. Leszek Deptuła deputy to the Sejm

2nd Mr. Gregory Dolniak deputy to the Sejm

3rd Ms. Grazyna Gęsicka deputy to the Sejm

4th Mr. Przemyslaw Gosiewski deputy to the Sejm

5th Lord Sebastian KARPINIUK deputy to the Sejm

6th Ms. Izabela Jaruga - Nowacka Deputy to the Sejm

7th Mr. Zbigniew Wassermann deputy to the Sejm

8th Ms. Alexander Natallia - WORLD Member of the Sejm

10th Mr. Arkadiusz Rybicki deputy to the Sejm

11th Jolanta Szymanek - Deresz Member of the Sejm

12th Wiesław WATER deputy to the Sejm

13th Mr. Edward Wojtas deputy to the Sejm

14th Janina FETLIŃSKA Senator RP

15th Mr. Stanislaw ZAJAC Senator RP

ACCOMPANYING PERSONS

1st Mr. Janusz Kochanowski Ombudsman

2nd Mr Sławomir Skrzypek, President of the Polish National Bank

3rd Janusz Kurtyka President of the Institute of National Remembrance

4th Janusz Krupski Director of the Office for War Veterans and Repressed Persons

REPRESENTATIVES Churches and Religious Affairs

1st Fr. Bp. Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz Ploski Ordinary of the Polish Army

2nd Archbishop Brig. Miron Chodakowski Orthodox Ordinary Polish Army

3rd Fr. Col. Adam Pilch Field Protestant Chaplaincy

4th Fr. Lt. Col. John OSIŃSKI Ordinariate of the Polish Army

Katyn Families REPRESENTATIVES AND OTHER SOCIETIES

1st Mr. Edward Duchnowski Secretary General of Association of Siberian Deportees

2nd Fr. Monsignor Bronislaw Gostomski

3rd Fr. Association President Joseph Joniec Parafiada

4th Fr. Zdzislaw KING Chaplain Warsaw Katyn Families 1987-2007

5th Fr. Chaplain Andrew Kwasnik Federation of Katyn Families

6th Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI

7th Bozena Łojek President of the Polish Foundation for Katyn

8th Mr. Stefan Melaka Katyn Committee Chairman

9th Mr. Stanisław Mikke Vice ROPWiM

10th Mrs. Bronislaw Orawiec - Löffler

11th Ms. Catherine Piskorska

12th Mr Andrew SARIUSZ - SKĄPSKI President of the Federation of Katyn Families

13th Mr Wojciech SEWERYN

14th Mr. Leszek Solski

15th Ms. Teresa Walewska - PRZYJAŁKOWSKA Foundation Golgotha of the East "

16th Ms. Gabriela Zych

17th Ewa Bąkowska granddaughter Brig. Mieczyslaw Smorawinski

18th Mrs. Maria Borowska

19th Mr. Bartosz BOROWSKI

20th Dariusz MALINOWSKI

REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ARMED FORCES RP

1st Gen. Bronislaw KWIATKOWSKI Operational Commander of Polish Armed Forces

2nd Gen. pil. Andrew Błasik Polish Air Force Commander

3rd Maj.-Gen. Tadeusz BUK Commander of Land Forces of Poland

4th Maj.-Gen. Vladimir POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces Commander

5th Vice Admiral Andrzej Karweta Commander Navy

6th Brig. Kazimierz GILARSKI Commander Training Centre

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/411701-polish-government-tu154m-crash-4.html

If this happened in the US, they would be storming the White House right now.

[Femacamper]

A Polish Assassination in Theory

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2010/04/polish-assassination-in-theory.html

There is information concerning the deaths of the Polish leadership in Russia which are setting off red alerts for this blog, from the Russian leadership all over this, Russian military pointing to "pilot error" and the chiming of the press to blame this all on the Polish pilots when the TU-154 is a modern aircraft with all the alarm bells and whistles to alert a pilot that all is not well, so one does not use your jet as a tree trimmer.

In theory, this can be just as easily termed an assassination of the Polish leadership by the evidence which is reported.

As reported exclusively here, the TU-154 has a host of back up systems and autopilots to deal with pilot error. One must understand that altimeters, speed and GPS all have warning chirps and lights in the event an airliner is not where it is supposed to be.
For the Polish jet to be trimming trees, means it was off course, which it can not be due to GPS. It would have to be lower than 100 feet which should send off warning signals, so it could not be lower than it should have been, yet it was, and no pilot is going to ignore those signals.

Yet we are told from Russian air controllers, that the Polish pilots "ignored" Russian directions.

Now why would experienced Polish pilots do this? They apparently were believing their instruments over what the Russian flight controllers were directing them.

That would mean the instrumentation was off. Off in GPS is one thing, but when your instrumentation is having two separate malfunctions in the height the aircraft is flying, then that is not coincidence, but a deliberate act as two systems on a Presidential plane just service months ago, are not both going to go out, when there are 3 autopilots operating on a TU-154 in an over redundant system.

Is it possible to rip GPS satellites? If one recalls the information on this blog, in last Christmas, there were several reports of people being lost using GPS, that indicates it is quite possible to rig satellites or influence their data in shifting the grid.
That is a fact, and if it happens in Washington, America, then it can happen in Smolensk, Russia with an airliner if people with assets desire such an outcome. A lost car is a lost plane, in that all satellites are jigged to not be precise, so enemies of the United States can not fly missiles through our windows.
Would it be possible with enough radar amplification to jam and refeed an GPS signal if desired. Logic dictates the answer as an affirmative, especially if Russian engineers were servicing this aircraft months ago.



The condition of "fog" should have no bearing on this, but yet in researching screen grabs for Smolensk, there should not have been fog in the least in that area. Conditions were not 100% humidity, but as the information proves only 60%.
Fog requires in normal circumstances 100% humidity to form. In the extended forecast in Russian no mass fog banks are noted. There was not snow on the ground for thermal inversions, no stagnant air masses, and the most damning evidence of all, the barometric readings were 31 inches which is a high reading.

I will put this quote on for people to ponder about fog being created:

Another common type of formation is associated with sea fog (also known as haar or fret). This is due to the peculiar effect of salt. Clouds of all types require minute hygroscopic particles upon which water vapor can condense. Over the ocean surface, the most common particles are salt from salt spray produced by breaking waves. Except in areas of storminess, the most common areas of breaking waves are located near coastlines, hence the greatest densities of airborne salt particles are there. Condensation on salt particles has been observed to occur at humidities as low as 70%, thus fog can occur even in relatively dry air in suitable locations such as the California coast.

So just as cloud seeding is known to eliminate fog, it is apparent that if one misted an area with low humidity with salts, that a dense fog could be induced.

While fog would not interfere with a Polish aircrew utilizing instrument flying, fog would make them blind to visual identification if the Russian controllers were telling them one thing, and their instruments were reporting another, that they were higher in altitude and at another GPS location.

In essence, it is possible to produced fog. It is possible to make GPS devices think they are at another location, adding the above evidence, when the TU-154 is a crash and pilot proof airliner that only comes down when shot down or runs out of fuel in it's history, it is not logical that the claim of pilot error is feasible on such a Russian aircraft of note.

Polish pilots are not going to ignore warning chirps on altimeters and GPS in being familiar with this aircraft. If the devices were giving bogus readings and not alerting the pilots, the pilots would ignore the Russian controllers and literally fly the plain into the trees thinking all was safe.

The Russians were far too immediate in pointing the fingers at the Poles. Furthermore it was reported this interesting quote:

The crash occurred three days after Putin and Tusk attended a joint memorial for the Katyn victims. The event was seen as a huge symbolic advance in Russia's often thorny relations with Poland.

Tusk is the Polish opposition to the current dead President Kaczynski, along with the entire Polish leadership in military, political and security circles.
How convenient like the current Putin puppet in the Ukraine that all were making nice just before their respective governments turned over from pro American political leadership.

There was no fog and is forecast no fog in Smolensk for the following week after this event of immediate dense fog, but yet the conditions with an east wind showed clear skies, without the heat to burn off fog during the day.



All of this appears to convenient in getting rid of a Polish government which Mr. Obama cast to the wind and the Russians were pointing nuclear missiles at.

I do not believe in coincidences and when one has heaps of coincidences piling up that puts a Polish assassination theory into a Polish assassination reality.

Could this be done by the Russian government? Yes.

Does this belong in the realm of the FBI, Polish security, French intelligence and British MI5? Most definitely.

Let this be investigated and not trusted to Russian mechanics servicing Polish Presidential planes and then Putin pointing fingers at Poles as he makes Obama buddies with the Polish opposition days before this happens.

This would look really good on the front page of Infowars.

[Femacamper]

This is how things go down and the true chain of command...

http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ST/

More good stuff by Col. L. Fletcher Prouty here:
http://www.prouty.org/

[Dig]

New Room:

The 2010 Coup d'etat in Poland - Regime Change by Decapitation
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?board=458.0

Polish elite were assassinated in a downed plane for not accepting the debt slavery of the € Euro. The Bilderberg "Project Mockingbird" media narrative says "fog" was to blame even though humidity was 60%, there was no forecast of fog, no eyewitness saw fog, and the video minutes after the assassination clearly shows no fog. The total and sudden extermination of dozens of high ranking officials included the president and wife, the head of the central bank (who was 100% opposed to the Euro), and multiple military commanders. Goldman Sachs "coincidently" landed in Warsaw two weeks before this coup. Just days before the attack, the now assassinated head of the central bank, via monetary policy, threatened the tough "mobster deals" that the EU and IMF were were imposing on Greece. It is important to also note that Goldman Sachs was very instrumental in destroying that EU member nation's economy. Poland is the only country out of the 27 member states of the EU to not suffer a recession this millennium. They are also the only country so opposed to the € Euro currency. The only head of state not assassinated is the Prime Minister of Poland who "coincidently" loves the € Euro and cannot wait to integrate his own country's powerful economy with the EU's failing economy. Adding fuel to the lack of fire 5 minutes after the incident, the PM declared that the fault concerning the extermination of these heads of state lies with Putin. Whether or not Putin has some blood on his hands concerning this event remains to be seen, but it is very odd that the PM would declare this openly prior to a thorough investigation and just hours after they signed a 50 year gas pipeline deal. Concerning the former President's enemies...Nicholas Sarkozy even went so far as to suggest that the EU kick out Poland until they accept the debt slavery creating currency and the head of the EU also considered Poland's central bank to be a "pebble in their shoe" concerning his agenda with implementing a continent-wide New World Order/IMF run monetary system. If cui bono and motive were ever important concerning a coup d'etat, they sure are now. Just like they were when NATO special operations assassinated Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

[Kilika]

Lord have mercy, that list is most of the top officials of Polands government. How is it that all those important people are all on one plane? Who's idea was that? That has to be answered, because it was an insanely careless decision. There was apparently even a Russian ambassador onboard as well.

[gabba2k7]

no fog only conspiracy?

[Femacamper]

New Room:

The 2010 Coup d'etat in Poland - Regime Change by Decapitation
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?board=458.0

Polish elite were assassinated in a downed plane for not accepting the debt slavery of the € Euro. The Bilderberg "Project Mockingbird" media narrative says "fog" was to blame even though humidity was 60%, there was no forecast of fog, no eyewitness saw fog, and the video minutes after the assassination clearly shows no fog. The total and sudden extermination of dozens of high ranking officials included the president and wife, the head of the central bank (who was 100% opposed to the Euro), and multiple military commanders. Goldman Sachs "coincidently" landed in Warsaw two weeks before this coup. Just days before the attack, the now assassinated head of the central bank, via monetary policy, threatened the tough "mobster deals" that the EU and IMF were were imposing on Greece. It is important to also note that Goldman Sachs was very instrumental in destroying that EU member nation's economy. Poland is the only country out of the 27 member states of the EU to not suffer a recession this millennium. They are also the only country so opposed to the € Euro currency. The only head of state not assassinated is the Prime Minister of Poland who "coincidently" loves the € Euro and cannot wait to integrate his own country's powerful economy with the EU's failing economy. Adding fuel to the lack of fire 5 minutes after the incident, the PM declared that the fault concerning the extermination of these heads of state lies with Putin. Whether or not Putin has some blood on his hands concerning this event remains to be seen, but it is very odd that the PM would declare this openly prior to a thorough investigation and just hours after they signed a 50 year gas pipeline deal. Concerning the former President's enemies...Nicholas Sarkozy even went so far as to suggest that the EU kick out Poland until they accept the debt slavery creating currency and the head of the EU also considered Poland's central bank to be a "pebble in their shoe" concerning his agenda with implementing a continent-wide New World Order/IMF run monetary system. If cui bono and motive were ever important concerning a coup d'etat, they sure are now. Just like they were when NATO special operations assassinated Italian Prime Minister Aldo Moro.

Awesome, Sane. This should give me material for research on a new article I'm working on.

[Dig]

This video will disappear.
Gunshots heard at Polish Plane Crash Site
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkEmHSIVDwE&feature=player_embedded

[UKStewart82]

I'm shocked that video hasn't already been taken down.  wow.   

[larsonstdoc]

I'm shocked that video hasn't already been taken down.  wow.   

  The writing appears to be Russian.  Maybe it has a chance for a while.  Does anybody have the capabilities to copy it?

[ImmortalTRUTH]

I have downloaded it..

I will put it on Mediafire soon..

[larsonstdoc]

I will put it on Mediafire soon..

Thanks

[Dig]

I have downloaded it..

I will put it on Mediafire soon..

spread it to at least 20 places and get it to infowars

[UKStewart82]

Thanks

Firefox with Flashgot Add-On.  Download anything not streaming through flash.  Awesome add-on.

Also, I've seen this "supposed" translation posted on a few sites...


As to my knowledge of Russian - the voices in the background shout “Idi otsyuda!”, which means - “Go away”. And the guy who’s filming is saying “Ni huya syebe” which is a vulgar expression, something like “Fu***g hell”, or something like that.
Most of a concern for me - the voice that orders after the shots were fired. Literally - “Everyone - go back! Leave the place!”. It’s an order to withdrawl.

[Femacamper]

From another forum:

Well before the man comes into the view of the camera, 3 gunshots has been heard then it pans to the old guy but while the guy was talking, there was another gunshot, the 3rd shot, again before the old man comes into view. So it's already 3 gunshots sounds has passed and as soon as the guy comes into view, it seems like he was actually looking towards the noise then you could see his head and body rotated around and started to walk away. I don't know what its being said but it could be the camera guy was talking to the old guy when the shots were being fired...

[Femacamper]

Firefox with Flashgot Add-On.  Download anything not streaming through flash.  Awesome add-on.

Also, I've seen this "supposed" translation posted on a few sites...


As to my knowledge of Russian - the voices in the background shout “Idi otsyuda!”, which means - “Go away”. And the guy who’s filming is saying “Ni huya syebe” which is a vulgar expression, something like “Fu***g hell”, or something like that.
Most of a concern for me - the voice that orders after the shots were fired. Literally - “Everyone - go back! Leave the place!”. It’s an order to withdrawl.

Stewart, if you can write up a blurb about it, then send that with the video youtube and direct download link (hotfile or something similar) to onedeaddj@yahoo.com, Paul will take a look at it...make sure you mention the translated Russian.