What actually hit the Pentagon: an old stone apparently left unturned

[phasma]

yep. i figure its because its easier to just swallow the bull crap they spoon feed us than it is to actually think

[agentbluescreen]

It wasn't gravity, but an aspect of aerodynamics of a foil and lift. It creates a kind of suction under the airfoil as part of lift, as strange as that may sound. Once that area under the wing gets so low, it interacts with the ground, basically sucking the foil towards the ground, making flight very unstable. The y key to this is airspeed. At low speeds the effect is minimal, thus landing isn't a problem. Big foils create big "shockwaves" under their wings at speed. I know I don't have that technically exact, but that's the basic idea why a big plane couldn't have did that flight manuver.

High speed itself is a problem, in that when you fly over a building, and drop the nose to dive down to street level after passing over the building, consider how far past that building you are at 500 mph versus say 200mph. It takes time for a plane to respond and by the time your altitude drops, your way past the building, further past than if at 200mph. It's basic physics.

Oh, and it is claimed there were over 80 different security cameras in the area. And they release 5 frames of footage? Hmm, who's the sucker?

Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with you about the wings, but I think we also noticed two rather gargantuan vacuum cleaner jet engine intake "suckers" (like giant vacuum cleaner hose nozzles, in fact) that make it simply and categorically impossible for an airborne airliner to come across a lawn at the altitude of a John Deere tractor.

[agentbluescreen]

Even in a perfectly ideal (and next to impossible) accurate steep dive at full airspeed hit one or the other engine would have gone through the second or third floor, and the other would have dug a huge ditch.

[Kilika]

Maybe that explains the finely manicured lawn!

[agentbluescreen]

This is what happens when a 747 (dumps all fuel) and then has an air traffic problem with a 14 story concrete steel and masonry apartment building at only 200mph, flying sideways, note that there is still plenty of airplane left-over. I think it's safe to say that if a 757 hit the Pentagon at 500 all it would have left is a big "C" with two fires going..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqY65NTht4

[agentbluescreen]

The Amsterdam collision was at around 230-280 or so Knots since they were diving and yet presumably throttled back up to try to regain roll control, gaining downward velocity despite struggling to regain airspeed. Yet the building despite being unhardened and mostly concrete, still stopped the plane without crushing it's tail.

In fact, aside from cartwheeling disintegrations, the three airplanes in 9/11 are the only recorded head-on air disasters in history where a substantial part of the rear cabins and tail section did not remain more or less wholly intact, (or as with the WTC we shall never know) as physics dictates they always do and must. Lightweight rigid aluminum airframes can easily resist even the most prodigious decelorative G forces. (braking)  Aluminum's own inertial mass and innate rigidity (unlike steel or bullet-lead) at most practical velocities is insufficient to crush itself.

There should have been a more or less recognizable tail section left inside that "clean" hole at the Pentagon.

[jimd3100]

Second, it seems indeed that the CNN clip was edited to make it look as if Mcyntire said no plane ever hit the pentagon.. At the beginning of the vid, he said a plane did hit the pentagon and saw small pieces... Seeing how In Plain Site not only pushed the pod claim but also dishonestly edited the CNN clip..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8w0NbDJ2SY&feature=related
leads me to believe in the stronger possibility now that it was indeed a large plane that hit the pentagon...

Nicely done TheQ. That was an important post, as you point out that people need to do some more "waking up" There is disinfo and it's real, anyone can speculate on motives, but lies are lies, and the truth is the truth. DVK and no planers, are NOT being truthfull.
As you point out in this clip....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8w0NbDJ2SY&feature=related

DVK is either deliberately spreading disinfo or is a horrible researcher, in any case there is no point in listening to him. He is not being honest.....

MCINTYRE: The Web sites often take statements out of context, such as this exchange from CNN in which I -- myself -- appear to be questioning whether a plane really hit the building: From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon. In fact, I was answering a question based on a eyewitness account who thought the American Airlines plane landed short of the Pentagon. I was indicated there was no crash site near the pentagon only at the Pentagon.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/transcript.wed/

MCINTYRE: In fact there were thousands of tiny pieces of the plane, and I personally photographed a piece of the fuselage and what appeared to be part of the cockpit.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/05/16/transcript.wed/

Unedited video proves he's telling the truth....
Pay attention to what is said at the 2:31 mark to the 2:50 mark. You Dishonest no planers edited that out to make it appear he was reporting no plane crash. This is blatantly dishonest. In fact it's disinfo. And if you opened your eyes, what I am trying to do is WAKE YOU UP TO IT. There is a disinfo campain. And I call you no planers because this no plane BS started at the pentagon. You are the original no planers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjlBpChvzD8

The edited clip that duped you into no plane kookville land....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BQiFHpGglw

This isn't exactly new, but some of you duped by no plane disinfo (that includes no plane at the pentagon)refuse to acknowledge this....

"Von Kleist's video functions to marginalize the case that the attack was an inside job by associating that idea with sensationalism and lack of critical thinking. The video got top billing in the Popular Mechanics attack piece, which used several of its ill-founded claims to smear the entire 9/11 Truth community."
http://911review.com/disinfo/videos.html#ips

"With these and other articles and broadcasts, millions of people are being introduced to the idea that the attack was an inside job via theories that have no support in evidence, sound ludicrous, and are easily discredited. Unfortunately, first impressions are difficult to reverse."
http://911review.com/disinfo/press/index.html

Interesting how DVK gets on National TV so Glenn Beck can make fun of the 9-11 truth movement that I CLAIM HE DOES NOT REPRESENT!.....

DVK name drops Agent Stubblebine at the 1:55 mark, and George Nelson at the 2:02 mark, Nelson one of the pod people at the pilots4truth disinfo group......

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3464078070142118463&hl=en#

How much evidence do you need Stubblebine is an Agent?
see....
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=2822.msg60287#msg60287

"Homeland Security watch: meet your Homeland Security Executive Advisory Board members.
In this issue, we will present you with the other members of this prestigious board."

"Major Gen. Albert N. Stubblebine III, CHS-III"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go1613/is_7-8_12/ai_n9091297/

"Thinking outside the box: exploring unconventional methods to fight unconventional terrorist threats: an interview with Maj. Gen. Albert Stubblebine, Member, Executive Advisory Board. American Board for Certification in Homeland Security: CHS-III"

"Maj. Gen. Albert Stubblebine, CHS-III and member of the Executive Advisory Board for the American Board for Certification in Homeland Security, graduated from the U.S. Military Academy (West Point) and served in Europe, Korea and Vietnam during his 32-year career with the U.S. Army. He is an inductee of the U.S. Army Intelligence Hall of Fame"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go1613/is_11-12_12/ai_n6631977/

Just how do you think one gets into the U.S. Army Intelligence Hall of Fame?

you might find the 5 to 5:30 part of this clip interesting....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB3Qpe_7wuA

And now for Nelson.....

No Planers depend on disinformation, misinformation, and lies, to keep their truth destroying BS alive. No plane parts found, 18 foot hole, 6 walls of reinforced concrete, blah blah...all lies, another no planer telling lies....

You claim to be a "moderator" here in this thread yet you call people like myself and Paul Watson "liars and disinfo agents" for not saluting your Pentagon warlords version of the events?

Which brings me to G Nelson.....

Another article written by Watson Sept 2006....

"9/11 Truth Movement Needs Legal Action Group
In same vain as 9/11 scholars, first action would be to distance itself from damaging unproven theories"
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | September 12 2006

"The dam on proving the destruction of the trade towers was an inside job has broken and the only thing that can stop it now is infiltration and misdirection towards unproven and discrediting theories about pods, missiles, ghost planes and other outlandish distractions."

"The pod people, CGI fakery dupes and dare I say it, Flight 77 skeptics, are harming the 9/11 truth movement."
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/september2006/120906legalaction.htm

Mr Pod person no planer and pilot 4 truth Nelson responded on DVK's website in an open letter to Watson, Site Admin of this forum......

"Copy of Ret. Col. George Nelson's letter to Prison Planet's Paul Watson
RE: Pods and Missiles.

To: Prison Planet. com
Attention: Paul Watson

Mr. Watson:

I'm writing to you in response to your 12 September 2006 announcement,
which suggests a need for a 9/11 legal group....

Just who the hell do you think you are, Mr. Watson?? Who appointed you as
judge and jury on what is or what isn't an "outlandish distraction"? Of
all the disinformation agents floating around, you are, in my opinion, the
most presumptuous egomaniac who has yet dared to float a trial balloon for
your truth movement's consideration."
http://www.thepowerhour.com/news2/nelson_watson.htm

WAHhhhh...cry us a river no planer.

CIT member Ranke of course also supports DVK and his no plane garbage....

I like DVK; he had me on his show last week and is even selling our dvd's for us on his website.

LOL! Gee....no kidding?

It's 2010, it's about time to wake up and smell the disinfo. On 9-11 planes flew into buildings.

[H0llyw00d]

ground effect has proven that something that big cant fly that low, that even, that fast (Be proud Mr. Hanjour)
engine pics have been proved NOT from a mercedes engine on a Boeing
the 1st pentagon and surrounding terrestrial pics prove NO Boeing 757 hit building
official flight plan proven to be false
Black Box Data proves plane never made it to wall
NTSB, DOT & FAA are proven LIARS

Lets just agree on disagreeing that "The official report" is BS!!!
9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB regardless of method of destruction, maybe after we start getting some indictments and trials going, we will then find out how these bastards operated their insanity!!!

[Kilika]

Exactly. Details are for trials. There is more than enough evidence to prove the government's official story is simply not true. They are withholding evidence and making claims they can't back up. That's why this hasn't gone anywhere in 9 years.

[agentbluescreen]

Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with you about the wings, but I think we also noticed two rather gargantuan vacuum cleaner jet engine intake "suckers" (like giant vacuum cleaner hose nozzles, in fact) that make it simply and categorically impossible for an airborne airliner to come across a lawn at the altitude of a John Deere tractor.

There was a cargo plane, but there ABSOLUTELY was no plane crash!

In view of the "video" we have been shown the imaginary "757" flight path shown above is BOTH SCIENTIFICALLY AND AERODYNAMICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!

--- and where are the photos of the more or less intact self-uncrushable tail fuselage that easily survived such exactly the same "sudden braking" in the Amsterdam incident??

[H0llyw00d]

good point ABS....

[agentbluescreen]

Judicial Watch Obtains September 11 Pentagon Video
May 16, 2006 Contact: Press Office
http://www.judicialwatch.org/5772.shtml

So what did Watson write when the video was released?

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones/Prison Planet.com | May 16 2006
Alex Jones and this website have always approached the Pentagon subject with caution because we were wary that it was a potential honey pot that would be used to distract and later discredit the 9/11 truth movement.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2006/160506pentagonimages.htm

It may well have had been my friend! ROTFLMAO

But in so doing (By having had manufactured this doctored, low-res, photo-multiplied blurry photo of the real thing-stretched and fattened concocted garbage) they have hung themselves by incriminating themselves with the entire aircraft piloting community!

Look at the Perdue photo - there is ZERO POSSIbility that a 757 could be the object in the video - ever!  A jet cannot ever either 'fly' nor "crash" that low, no way, no how.

It is impossible for a jet airliner type of airplane to not skid without hitting the 4th floor with wing heights at the second - maximum, otherwise it'd be sucked down one side or the other and would have torn through the roof.

The object in the video has nearly no rate of approaching decline, it is flying level.


I've shown you the missile launcher where the guys are not either 4 feet apart nor 16 feet apart in rows.

A "tent" with an air pallet floor and parachute bag bundle behind it.

Shown how the launcher opened, how it was dropped, explained witnesses who saw the plane fly over exactly before the supposed "crash" happened, explain how a something that was not a 757 hit poles without breaking up immediately.

Explained burn marks in your Jameseway decontamination-sized clubhouse-kitchen army "tent" the guys were hustling off the lawn by the edge of the road in front of the hole that morning. Explained how such a tent does not move in any army without being inside it's box that serves as thin floor covering when assembled, or may be discarded when a tarp is used.

TIed all the components of the attack to the evidence and aftermath where we see what a real Boeng jet does to a regular strong concrete building, shown guys who searched through the plane junkyard from a 747 wreck WITH DU wing-ballast weights without fear of radioactive pulverized munitions microdust.

Then I showed how a 757 couldn't possibly be the cause of any "contamination" at the Pentagon save if an AUP warhead (which I showed you pictures of that fits perfect in my PEGASYS missile launcher ) After it delivered itself behind 150kilos of Uranium oxide dust, strewn and smoked-out behind it neatly to the "Punch Out" Photo

Now what the heck do you need to   brighten up and to realize

   THEY SCREWED UP BIG RIGHT Then.

 

This one former possible honeypot is now a Waterloo. They should have NEVER tried to get away with that doctored mpeg.

[agentbluescreen]

I shall never understand as long as I live, how, despite that fact that over 80% of the world knows and accepts that 9/11, The Daniel Chapter 8 Show was most undoubtedly a staged, inside job by insider traitors and false flag double agents that is and has been covered up and manipulated to suit their ends some people simply refuse to accept anything but the official fable of what we are supposedly to believe might have happened at the Pentagon.

If the World Trade Center Demolitions were covered up by the airliners as missiles ruse then the far too small and minor Pentagon damage must have surely been a too-cleverly engineered ruse as well. It is now obvious that the official fiction is an illogical impossibility, the evidence now more apparent simply does not and no longer supports any such an irrational and deeply flawed conclusion. Airliners do not fly at under 80 feet across lawns without ditching into them.

We now know what it looks like when an airliner strikes a smaller low-rise building. There is no building left, no oxidized DU radiation and plenty of airplane left over.

Those who support the Saudi Conspiracy Theory are simply wrong.

[agentbluescreen]

9/11 truth has nothing to gain by speculating on what hit the pentagon, the official stance should be we don't know...just my 2 cents

Get ready, fellow infowarriors, tonight's Conspiracy Theory on TruTV deals with much of what we have discussed here in his thread. The "host of the stars phase of the ZioNAZI's DANIEL CHAPTER 8 SHOW on 9/11 is the most obvious case of criminal fraud ever perpetrated on the world.

The wink and a nod folly of these open criminal conspirators must be exposed and brought to justice or we are all doomed.

[citizenx]

God bless, Jesse.  My mom's been a big fan for years, too.  Got her to watch part of the FEMA camp epsiode.

He can really help to wake a lot of people up.

Glad to see him and AJ teaming up quite a bit.

[citizenx]

Conspiracy Theory w/Jesse Ventura  re. Pentagon and Missing Trillions ("911 Pentagon Attack"  Full Episode)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ14NRbT-s

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll just bring up one issue for starters from the show.  Why no impact hole from either of the engines?


Plane was travelling at over 500 m.p.h. It would seem as if inertia alone would have carried the engines into the Penatagon along with the crushed/compacted fuselage, and that they would have formed separate impact areas.  Even if the wings "fold up", the engines could have simply torn from them.  It seems impossible they would have followed the fuselage into the same exact hole.

The idea that they would have both ricocheted off the building seems quite incredible, too.

[citizenx]

Add'. link for "Conspiracy Theory" Show:

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/6048856/Conspiracy.Theory.with.Jesse.Ventura.S02E08.The.911.Pentagon.Con

(Just in case YouTube pulls the video.)

[agentbluescreen]

Dude it's undeniably the damage from a top-intake lawn-launched Naval Boeing AGM 86C with a hardbacked DU "Broach"-type AUP warhead, It was launched from that canvas-covered Pegasys JPADS hydraulically articulated front-launch-door wooden naval air-cargo pallet missile launcher that the guys hustled off the lawn with it's folded parasail-nav and chute package afterwards. It was dropped there by a military cargo plane that then flew over the building before the Pegasys landing and missile launch.

You can even see a fold-out starboard wing on the remains of the Boeing-colored AGM-86C  version of the cruise missile on the floor just beyond the final "punch-out" penetrator's (third and final hardback explosive stage) delivery point in the C ring wall.

Whatever became of Flight 77 remains a mystery, but it surely didn't hit any Pentagon

[Kilgore Trout]

I have always been in the "missile or other" camp on the pentagon , and watching this episode of CT , I am still and even more so ardent about the obvious FACT that there was no plane at the pentagon.

[citizenx]

Dude it's undeniably the damage from a top-intake lawn-launched Naval Boeing AGM 86C with a hardbacked DU "Broach"-type AUP warhead, It was launched from that canvas-covered Pegasys JPADS hydraulically articulated front-launch-door wooden naval air-cargo pallet missile launcher that the guys hustled off the lawn with it's folded parasail-nav and chute package afterwards. It was dropped there by a military cargo plane that then flew over the building before the Pegasys landing and missile launch.

You can even see a fold-out starboard wing on the remains of the Boeing-colored AGM-86C  version of the cruise missile on the floor just beyond the final "punch-out" penetrator's (third and final hardback explosive stage) delivery point in the C ring wall.

Whatever became of Flight 77 remains a mystery, but it surely didn't hit any Pentagon

 

Can't say I know exactly how they did it, but it is pretty clear how they didn't do it.

But I'm hardly arguing against you on this one.  On this we're pretty much on the same side.

[jimd3100]

Those who support the Saudi Conspiracy Theory are simply wrong.

Gee, that's to bad.

They say it isn't the crime that gets you, it's the cover up. Well, want to see a 9-11 cover up? It's very obvious and it's very easy to prove.

Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml

"The Administration has to date objected to the Inquiry’s efforts to interview the informant in order to attempt to resolve those
inconsistencies. The Administration also would not agree to allow the FBI to serve a Committee subpoena and deposition notice
on the informant. Instead, written interrogatories from the Joint Inquiry were, at the suggestion of the FBI, provided to the
informant. Through an attorney, the informant has declined to respond to those interrogatories and has indicated that, if
subpoenaed, the informant would request a grant of immunity prior to testifying."
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

"In July 2003, the asset was given a $100,000 payment and closed as an asset." {footnote number 197}
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/fbi-911/chap5.pdf

"2. Al-Bayoumi has been determined to have co-signed for hijackers
Nawaf Al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar when they rented an apartment at
the Parkwood Apartments complex and to have sometimes paid rent for
them." page 1/8
http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-10-03-FBI-penttbomb-bayoumi.pdf

"One of the FBI’s best sources in San Diego informed the FBI that he thought that al-Bayoumi must be an intelligence officer for
Saudi Arabia or another foreign power." page 226/858
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

After September 11, the FBI developed information clearly indicating that Bassnan is an extremist and a Bin Ladin supporter." page 229/858
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

"Then, last November, Newsweek reported that Princess Haifa, the wife of the long-time Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar, had over the course of a couple years sent $130,000 in charitable donations to the wives of al-Bayoumi and another San Diego-based Saudi friend of the San Diego hijackers, Osama Bassnan."

“Bayoumi should be in jail,” Baer told me by telephone this week. “He is much more connected to September 11th than Zacarias Moussaoui.”

“As a former intelligence officer, I focus on these governments,” Baer says. “It’s a classic operation where a government sets up front companies. How did Bassnan get on
Princess Haifa’s charity list? He didn’t just show up and write her a letter. The Saudis check these people.”
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/000011.html

"Sources close to the case told TIME that beginning in January 1999 monthly payments of $2,000 were made from Princess
Haifa's checking account to Majida Dwaikat, wife of Osama Bassnan. A Saudi national, Bassnan was living in San Diego last year
and has been linked to Omar al Bayoumi, a Saudi student who befriended two men who wound up helping crash Flight 77 into
the Pentagon. The sources also say that the ambassador, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, gave $15,000 to Bassnan."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003790,00.html

"Government officials told U.S. News that Butler disclosed that he had been monitoring a flow of Saudi Arabian money that
wound up in the hands of two of the 9/11 hijackers. The two men had rented a room from a man Butler had used as a
confidential informant, the sources say. According to officials familiar with his account, Butler said that he had alerted his
superiors about the money flows but the warning went nowhere. "Butler is claiming ... that people [in the FBI] didn't follow up,"
says a congressional source. Adds another: "He saw a pattern, a trail, and he told his supervisors, but it ended there."
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/features/saudi_021129.htm

"Speaking to the Arabic satellite network Al-Arabiya on Thursday, Bandar -- now Abdullah's national security adviser -- said Saudi
intelligence was "actively following" most of the September 11, 2001, plotters "with precision."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/01/saudiarabia.terrorism/index.html

Want to see just how corrupt this Government is? While Bush's Buddy Bandar was funneling money to the 9-11 hijackers, and Agent
Butler warned his supervisors and nothing was done Louis Freeh was the head of the FBI. He resigned in June 2001. He doesn't call Bandar a suspect. He calls him his client.....

"Freeh says that when the FBI investigated Riggs Bank accounts under the control of Prince Bandar, "...they exonerated our client, Prince Bandar and his family with respect to any money laundering or any terrorist financing, because you remember that was really the focus as to whether two individuals who were Saudis who had connections with two of the [9/11] hijackers were using any monies from those [Riggs Bank] accounts to finance it."

"It was very unusual. In the public statements what they said is they found there was no activity, in the accounts that showed any wrongdoing by my client or members of his family. It's an extraordinary conclusion to make. But the government found no money laundering and no evidence of any terrorist financing and absolved my client and his family, which is a very extraordinary result."

"FRONTLINE inquired to the FBI and the U.S. Department of Justice about the "public statements" that "exonerated" Prince Bandar. The FBI responded saying it was unable to locate anything that matched what the former Director was referring to. Inquiries with the Department of Justice were met with instructions to contact the FBI. When asked to provide a copy of a statement or a private letter that may have been sent to him or his client, Mr. Freeh did not respond."
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/bribe/2009/04/louis-freeh-interview.html

"Lehman recalled asking Bush about the news reports that checks for thousands of dollars written by the wife of Prince Bandar,
the Saudi ambassador in Washington, might have been funneled to two of the hijackers in San Diego. "He dodged the
questions," said Lehman." page 344
http://www.amazon.com/Commission-Uncensored-History-11-Investigation/dp/0446580759/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271632815&sr=1-2

"I answered every question they asked" --G Bush after meeting with 9-11 Commission (1:55 mark of following video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vio68c0h-h4&feature=related

"He dodged the questions," said Lehman. page 344
http://www.amazon.com/Commission-Uncensored-History-11-Investigation/dp/0446580759/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271632815&sr=1-2

(a) Findings.--The Senate finds that--
(1) The President has prevented the release to the American
public of 28 pages of the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence
Community Activities Before and After the Terrorist Attacks
of September 2001.
(2) The contents of the redacted pages discuss sources of
foreign support for some of the September 11th hijackers
while they were in the United States.
(3) The Administration's decision to classify this
information prevents the American people from having access
to information about the involvement of certain foreign
governments in the terrorist attacks of September 2001.
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/s102803.html

This is a cover up. This will never be "debunked". This is not a "conspiracy theory" I made up. You wont see this exposed on TV. Instead you will see No plane "conspiracy theories" put forth by J Fetzer, Jesse Ventura, and Morgan Reynolds on TV. Because the MSM and Government want to portray 9-11 truth as fringe conspiracy theorists.
The Saudi, Israeli, and American Governments worked together to bring us 9-11. That is the conspiracy. The planes were real at all 4 locations.

[agentbluescreen]

Gee, that's to bad.

They say it isn't the crime that gets you, it's the cover up. Well, want to see a 9-11 cover up? It's very obvious and it's very easy to prove.

Hijackers Lived With FBI Informant
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/09/attack/main521223.shtml

"The Administration has to date objected to the Inquiry’s efforts to interview the informant in order to attempt to resolve those
inconsistencies. The Administration also would not agree to allow the FBI to serve a Committee subpoena and deposition notice
on the informant. Instead, written interrogatories from the Joint Inquiry were, at the suggestion of the FBI, provided to the
informant. Through an attorney, the informant has declined to respond to those interrogatories and has indicated that, if
subpoenaed, the informant would request a grant of immunity prior to testifying."
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

"In July 2003, the asset was given a $100,000 payment and closed as an asset." {footnote number 197}
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/fbi-911/chap5.pdf

"2. Al-Bayoumi has been determined to have co-signed for hijackers
Nawaf Al-Hazmi and Khalid Al-Mihdhar when they rented an apartment at
the Parkwood Apartments complex and to have sometimes paid rent for
them." page 1/8
http://intelfiles.egoplex.com/2001-10-03-FBI-penttbomb-bayoumi.pdf

"One of the FBI’s best sources in San Diego informed the FBI that he thought that al-Bayoumi must be an intelligence officer for
Saudi Arabia or another foreign power." page 226/858
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

After September 11, the FBI developed information clearly indicating that Bassnan is an extremist and a Bin Ladin supporter." page 229/858
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/fullreport_errata.pdf

XXXXXX

“As a former intelligence officer, I focus on these governments,” Baer says. “It’s a classic operation where a government sets up front companies. How did Bassnan get on
Princess Haifa’s charity list? He didn’t just show up and write her a letter. The Saudis check these people.”[/i]
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/000011.html

XXXXX

This is a cover up. This will never be "debunked". This is not a "conspiracy theory" I made up. You wont see this exposed on TV. Instead you will see No plane "conspiracy theories" put forth by J Fetzer, Jesse Ventura, and Morgan Reynolds on TV. Because the MSM and Government want to portray 9-11 truth as fringe conspiracy theorists.
The Saudi, Israeli, and American Governments worked together to bring us 9-11. That is the conspiracy. The planes were real at all 4 locations.

Jim I can't thank you enough for making me question and further investigate the depleted uranium "decontamination" Korean War era 'tent' they tried to put by us all, and the only possible reason such contamination could have existed at the Pentagon - after the 'broach' AUP warhead strike there. Without your invaluable debating points in this thread there wouldn't have been any discussion, and many loose ends would have been left ignored.

I fully agree with your points, above, here about Tory-Saudi Mohammedan ZioNAZI-conservative involvement in the religious-fascist Episcopal-Anglican's "Daniel Chapter 8 Show" planning and patsy setups. The evidence is overwhelming that masonic templar Constantinian, Levitican and Mohammedan ZioNAZI fascists fully collaborated and cooperated with corporate military fascists to stage their elaborate, evil, idolatrous "slave manual prophecy" communal dogma-reenactment mass murder shows for their own benefits on 9/11. I fully agree with you that all three (four) of these corporate dogmatic Noble Amun Priesthood Cults are Evil Incarnate and all are each directly and clearly the perpetrators, means, causes and motives for The 9/11 Show.

Unfortunately while the Tory Fascist Saudi's involvement with setting up the alleged "hijacker patsies" may have something to do with what whatever eventually happened to Flight 77 there is no reason (nor valid evidence) to conclude that any sort of a "Flight 77" (civilian 757 jetiner)  had anything to do with what bombed the Pentagon!

The third horn of the Ram that went to the pleasant lands to the south and the east and struck down some of the host of the stars was not Flight 77.

The mere fact that the FBI Mafia criminals have stolen and hidden all of the video evidence, totally proves conclusively that it is incriminating evidence and that the Pentagon was not hit by any Boeing 757! There can be NO OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSION.

Amun Priesthood "Prayer Card Photos" of a 757 hitting the Pentagon would be more popular than those of Our Lady of Guadeloupe. The only reason to hide such photographic evidence would be that it doesn't exist.

[agentbluescreen]

The mere fact that the FBI Mafia criminals have stolen and hidden all of the video evidence, totally proves conclusively that it is incriminating evidence and that the Pentagon was not hit by any Boeing 757! There can be NO OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSION.

Thomas 39

Jesus said, "The Pharisees and the scribes have taken the keys of Knowledge and hidden them. They themselves have not entered, nor have they allowed to enter those who wish to. You, however, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves."

[Kilika]

The mere fact that the FBI Mafia criminals have stolen and hidden all of the video evidence, totally proves conclusively that it is incriminating evidence and that the Pentagon was not hit by any Boeing 757! There can be NO OTHER POSSIBLE CONCLUSION.

80+ security cameras around the most famous military structure on the planet outside of maybe Area 51, and they got no tape of the plane when they knew ahead of time that the plane was inbound?

They actually expect the public to believe that? Where is the proof that there was even a Flight 77 in the first place? Curious that there was less than 60 people claimed onboard. Any survivors relatives been verified? How many of them were admitted military? It would be the first time that people thought they were participating in one thing when the reality is that they were doing something entirely different. There are those that think dead people can't argue.

Even more revealing is that this whole deal has been treated as an act of war so they are invoking certain things that would not be allowed under a criminal investigation. There has never been any other people named for this crime, the names have stayed the same so if you go by what the government alledges, they got there suspects, so why has there been no trial? Why aren't they showing the public the evidence such as videos? Because it's an "act of war", and that's the same reason people are being held in Gitmo without charges or trial because in a military action they can do it.

As soon as they try to take that person to court as they recently did, they get their backsides handed to them legally because under military rules they operate many times contrary to the civilian rule of law, such as due process and crime scene and evidence rules and practices.

If this were treated as a criminal action instead of an "act of terrorism", the government's case would have failed long ago and their lawyers disbarred, and the public would know who the real criminals are.

Legally, there is nothing stopping the government from pursuing criminal charges and implementing a criminal investigation. They just choose to not do it, and that in itself is criminal.


"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16 (KJB)

[jimd3100]

If this were treated as a criminal action instead of an "act of terrorism", the government's case would have failed long ago and their lawyers disbarred, and the public would know who the real criminals are.

If this were a criminal action eyewitness testimony would be taken and this is what would be presented....

She claims to see a passenger jet fly into the pentagon. Is she "in on it"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIJSXow0p0U&feature=related

He claims a he saw a passenger jet fly into the pentagon. Claims it was an American Airlines passenger jet. Is he "in on it"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRsuRao7A

This guy claims it was a "business jet" does that mean the first two I posted are liars and a missile hit? or it "flew over"? He doesn't speak English either. It's called gathering evidence and interviewing witness. Let's Try using some common sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6VuMHaZGuA&feature=related

This witness said it was an American Airlines 757. Are they "in on it"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh2iFhTYX5s

This guy said he was on a nearby roof, and watched a plane fly into the pentagon. Guess what that means? It didn't fly over it and "fool" everyone. But he must be "in on it" right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HBjxYrhI4E&feature=related

This guy said it was a plane, he didn't describe a silly missile theory, no one did. He must be "in on it".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3wzFxdVso&feature=related

This guy said an American Airlines Jet hit the pentagon. He saw it. But maybe the reporter told him what to say huh? He "in on it"? Maybe the media faked the videos of the WTC and there were no planes at all on 9-11?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_z9sCeYZ54&feature=related

Here is someone that didn't see the plane....OMG! We might have something here! Uh Oh...listen to what she says at the 50 second mark though LOL! She must be an actress huh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyIi7Z3fuhg

This guy lives in an apartment building on the 16th floor he SAW the flyover! Oh wait...no..sorry... he saw a plane fly into the building like everyone else. No one saw a BS missile no planers made up. No one. This guy is sure it was a Boeing 757 American Airlines Jet so he has to be "in on it"? And he is so stupid he f&*ks up and said he thought it hit the ground just before the pentagon. He should have rehearsed the script right? Or maybe....just maybe he like most witnesses get some minor details wrong. Are we allowed to use some common sense? Or is that a cointel jreffer type disinfo stunt?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBmgsjC6Nc&feature=related

These eyewitnesses all have something else in common. They are all getting slandered and harassed online by so called 9-11 truthers who can't face reality and the fact that their silly missile or flyover theories are a f*^king hoax. Get a clue. This is not helpful. It is the opposite of helpful. It's also disgusting.

Here are a bunch more that a member of this very forum has called and talked to.....
http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpitout/topic/3459052/1/

But we all love our videos don't we? So the forum member (Shure) also made this video...BTW- he fell for the hoax too. But realized he was duped and is now trying to prevent others from falling for this hoax--thanks Shure

9/11 Pentagon Witnesses - They Saw the Plane Hit!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfQEwxxVyKY&feature=player_embedded#!

And a quick check of the comments to these videos show that so called "truthers" think these ordinary working class Americans are lying operatives. They have to be, or a passenger jet hit the pentagon like all the physical evidence shows. Ordinary working class Americans. The very people we need on our side. Who cares right? Release the Government videos!!! Harassing and accusing these people -- no one does that but so called "truthers". Who is getting "fooled" here? ON 9-11 PLANES FLEW INTO BUILDINGS. No plane at the pentagon is a hoax. Who does it benefit?

[Kilika]

I'm quite amazed that your even allowed to continue to post this stuff here. The upside it does serve to show how people can be so blind and imagine things as a result of their conditioning by what they've been told. Your a perfect example, and what you post will never convince me that a 757 flew into the Pentagon.

There's a bunch of experts running around with professional degrees that say there is no god because among other things, they claim to have never seen a god. Your way of logic seems that you'd believe those people too seeing you place so much trust in what people claim to have seen.

Here's the deal, again: All I claim is that I believe based on my own actual professional level experience in aviation that there is no way that person flew a 757 into the Pentagon in the manner they claim. Impossible for him to do it. He couldn't have even gotten lucky and somehow manage to do it. Could not happen. The resulting damage to the building is just even more proof due to the lack of debris that should be there.

Was it a missle? That is what I feel is most likely, but I do not think there is enough presented evidence to say it was a missle for a fact such as a cruise missle. Based on damage, I'd lean towards a cruise missle. They have wings too and some newer versions could be larger, looking like a corporate jet.

And seriously, how hard is it to paint something? Claiming they saw AA colors on it carries no weight at all. Show me the photographic evidence.

Ever been within say a half a mile of a passing jet traveling at 500mph? I have. Unless you got your eyes already on it, it's difficult to pick it up before it's out of viewing range. Apparently the 757 can operate at speeds way above it's structurally safe limits because that is exactly what a 757 would have had to do to pull that move off and not suffer major handling issues.

Was it a commercial 757? No way. Not possible.

Did Flight 77 at the last second pull up and avoid hitting the building, and not get as low to the ground as claimed, while something else hit it? I don't think so. I have very serious doubts because that would have been nearly as difficult to pull off.

Do you have any aviation experience at all? Any? I do. Even actually flown a real live airplane Sparky? I have not as I do not have a license. How about some seat time in a real live professional commercial aircraft simuator that real pilots train in? I have. Ever even seen one in person Mr. Expert? I have. Ever worked on a military fighter jet combat simulator that trains pilots air combat? I have. I use to fly better than many of the pilots that trained at the facility I worked at for the Navy. I suspect your answers are no to all questions, like the vast majority of people talking out their ignorant backsides.

And you well know that your "in on it" angle is simply juvenile. Grow up already. I really don't care what any of those witnesses say, or the other witnesses that you fail to mention that contradict the witnesses that you just happen to quote. Your not being objective, but rather biased in your evidence. How many of those people that you reference have any professional experience around jet aircraft? If they don't, they must immediately be eliminated as credible witnesses. Unlearned witnesses usually try to explain what they can't explain based on what they do know, and then make a ton of assumptions because they don't know what's possible and what's not possible.

So I ask again, along with all your expert eye witnesses, where's the video proof that will back their claims? OH, that's right, the government refuses to release it. Over 80 cameras and we get 5 frames? Wow. Dude, you really need to wake up.

[jimd3100]

So I ask again, along with all your expert eye witnesses, where's the video proof that will back their claims? OH, that's right, the government refuses to release it. Over 80 cameras and we get 5 frames? Wow. Dude, you really need to wake up.

LOL! You got duped by silly hoaxes how does it feel to be manipulated?

[Kilika]

LOL! You got duped by silly hoaxes how does it feel to be manipulated?

That's your reply to my questions? So I guess I can assume your just as ignorant about aviation as the next grounded wannabe pilot!

Well, what's your background? Are you speaking from any credibility at all? I can assure you that I have been duped by nothing. It's you that is avoiding answering my questions.

Answer them or shut up your apparently unqualified trap from spreading what you know not. So far, all you have done is muddy the waters for the unlearned with all your blustering and noise.

How about all the pilots that are basically calling you an idiot for not knowing what the heck your even talking about? You know better than pilots? So I guess all the time I spent in real simulators was just a hoax? And your background is what again? I didn't here you say.

[jimd3100]

That's your reply to my questions?

Yes, obviously it was.

So I guess I can assume your just as ignorant about aviation as the next grounded wannabe pilot!

I've never "wanted to be" a pilot.
You obviously assume a lot. LOL! Your idiotic "I sat in a flight simulator I am an expert on the pentagon not you!" Is a red herring canard

Well, what's your background?

None of your business
Maybe I am a homeless crack addict who lives in a box, and am to embarrassed to bring that up, or maybe my background is a CIA undercover centcom operative. Your argument that "you have no right to post anything on the pentagon that I don't agree with unless you are a pilot" is garbage and exposes how pathetic your argument actually is.

Are you speaking from any credibility at all?

Ignoring the physical evidence, common sense, and the witnesses to blabber on about how a missile hit the pentagon destroys the whole truth movements credibility. You are to stupid and wrapped up in your own ego and hoax to realize this.

Frank Legge  of Journal of 9/11 Studies is not as stupid....
http://www.journalof911studies.com/

His paper on this subject...
What Hit the Pentagon? Misinformation and its Effect on the Credibility of 9/11 Truth
http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/2009/WhatHitPentagonDrLeggeAug.pdf

I can assure you that I have been duped by nothing. It's you that is avoiding answering my questions.

Your questions are personal questions meant to extract personal information. It is a tactic that you had better never use on any other forum member again.
Are you really sure you want to play this game?

Answer them or shut up your apparently unqualified trap from spreading what you know not.

I wont be taking orders from you. And you have indeed been duped. One could respond with-Have you ever been to a crime scene and conducted any type of investigation before, or interviewed any witnesses or did intelligence analysis? Ever? If not stop blabbering about 9-11.  

So far, all you have done is muddy the waters for the unlearned with all your blustering and noise.

No one needs to be a crime scene investigator, or a pilot to realize the no plane hoax. And you don't have to be a structural engineer to have doubts about the WTC collapse. Your retarded assertions are the same thing the NIST scientists tried at their press conference.

How about all the pilots that are basically calling you an idiot for not knowing what the heck your even talking about?

Are you referring to pilots for 911 truth who should change their name to pilots who can't admit a plane hit the pentagon, because if it did they would be out of business? The truth is a little further down their agenda list.

You know better than pilots? So I guess all the time I spent in real simulators was just a hoax? And your background is what again? I didn't here you say.

It's not of your f%$king business. But I did say here long ago...

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. The perps that help carry out 9/11 are the same perps that tried to kill me with anthrax. They were successful at murdering my colleagues with their anthrax. I will go after the "people" that tried to kill me and murdered thousands of others on 9/11. And when I sit and watch you push disINfo garbage I will call you on it. This isn't a game with me, and if I don't hold your hand and be you little buddy it's because there is a war on. AJ is right when he talks about an Info War, and when you help Rumsfeld and the other perps that tried to kill me I will expose you. I would advise you to stop  implying...no outright writing that I support the "official version", when I am purposely going after the people who killed my colleagues, or you might not be around here much longer. If you want to debate issues and continue to show how uninformed and ignorant you are on them that's your right, but you better be careful about any accusations you make against me.

And this more recently (ref:Pat being Pat Tillman)....

I did the same thing. After 9-11 I went back in. And then wanted to find out all I could about 9-11, anthrax, and this "War on Terror" --what I found out was I got duped. Pat found the same thing but was to far gone. A real tragedy.

I also said this which also is none of you or anyone else's f^%king business....

Like I said. I fell for it just like you. I saw what happened on 9/11. It was time to kick ass when that happened. I'm no "liberal" peace loving anti American. I will serve and fight this war on terror. See? That was brain washing. I know it for a fact. What I "witnessed" was a bunch of stuff. I signed as 94B that's counter Intelligence agent. While waiting to go to training at Fort Huachuca Arizona, I wanted to know all about this "War on Terror" and practiced obtaining information from open source and any other means. I turned off the TV and started using my brain. Guess what I was doing while not serving in the Guard? I was working for USPS. I wanted to know who killed my colleagues with anthrax. You see? I take this personal. Well, I found out that the Anthrax came from the Government. And I found out why. When the news in America announced that a judge had been appointed over Saddams' trial, and he was an Iraqi and the Americans have nothing to do with the trial, I found out that the judge also formed a company just before the invasion of Iraq with another person where they would for a fee help you obtain construction contracts for rebuilding the soon to be destroyed country. This company promised it's clients that it can deliver due to it's access to "high U.S. Government officials". The Judges' name was Saleem Chalabi. The nephew of Ahmed Chalabi, who was responsible for feeding the pentagon the BS Info that they desired to invade Iraq(the "faulty" intelligence)and his partner? His name was Marc Zell, who happened to be the bussiness partner of Doug Feith. And who lives in the Golan Heights(land seized by Israel from Syria) Doug Feith was the number 3 guy in the pentagon who was responsible for creating the BS "intelligence" that the "Military Industrial Complex" craved. He and Zell are also hard core Zionist who work for Israel, just like Larry Franklin, who was later arrested for spying for Israel. He worked under Feith. And Feiths' boss, the number 2 at the pentagon, Paul Wolfowitcz also a Zionist who works for Israel. You need to find this out for yourself, because you wont believe me but maybe you will believe your own research.
Anyway, I joined the U.S. Army...I didn't join the Israel defense Force. I had no desire to work under these traitors.

I was also, years ago, a military police officer (which only convinced me I had no intention of being one when I got out of the service)I've interviewed witnesses at crime scenes, like the the witnesses at the pentagon that I have been sitting and watching the so called truth movement slander for the last 10 years because of a stupid hoax that discredits us. And you blabber on about credibility and how I have no right to post anything unless it agrees with your BS missile theory because I've never sat in a "simulator" before. You wont see me say I have dead colleagues because of the anthrax false flag so no one can talk about the anthrax but me, I've collected evidence at crime scenes and talked to witnesses but you wont see me say no one can disagree with me about any crime scene because of that, I've analyzed intelligence but you wont see me say no one can gather information except for me and yet you parked your ass in a flight simulator which you think makes you some kind of expert. It doesn't, and your argument is stupid. And I would warn you to never try to elicit personal information from any other forum member again. Got it? The members of this forum (and I'm one) have a right to their privacy and that BS tactic better stop right now, you comprehend?

[agentbluescreen]

Merry Christmas, JIM!  

Thanks for taking these things seriously, but please let me re-iterate:

The onus is not upon us to agree on any theory, the burden of proof lies upon them to explain the lies, redactions, slip-ups, half-truths, contradictions of the laws of flight and physics, suspicious and convenient coincidences, their evidence-tampering, disinformation, obstruction of justice and criminal evidence cover-up secrecy.

What we have here is an official theory and cherry picked pack of "evidence" that does not agree with the official theory.

Volume and truth are two different things. When a choir of 10,000 come to Copernicus and Galileo to tell them that their bible-slavery manual and "common sense observation" decree that the earth is obviously flat and obviously is the center of the universe it does not change the truth

[jimd3100]

Merry Christmas, JIM!  

Thanks for taking these things seriously.

LOL!


Merry Christmas to you! 

[Kilika]

And I would warn you to never try to elicit personal information from any other forum member again. Got it?

We are done here. Check your pm please.

[Letsbereal]

9/11: Steven Gerard - 20 passenger corporate jet no markings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NLBMHYgpMI

A cruise missile like the one on the pics here could easely be mistaken for small business jet.


Pentagon 9-11 Surveillance Camera Video Impact 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Om9_Lbco6A









"NO PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON" only once aired report
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFz7gLz7CVk

Cause the cruise missile went trough the window



Photo just after the hit with the front of the pentagon still intact which only much later collapsed



Look how far it penetrated the Pentagon building



Leaving distinctive relative small holes in the Pentagon walls











Only some sort of cruise missile/bunker buster could do that not the very soft nose of any airliner which is a ridiculous thought to begin with.







9/11 Shanksville Eyewitness Susan McElwain defenitely saw a cruise missile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gliHOhXYFQ

Watch the complete 911 Slideshow - Pictures only to be found here: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v393/youricarma/NineOneOne/?albumview=slideshow

[Dok]

That's a plane, you can plainly see it. right there in the middle, big huge plane.

[Kilika]

It's obvious they have accounted for all those seats in the plane too! They did show all the seats at the crash site, or did they all get vaporized too? And it's obvious also that we must have been lied to because this is apparently proof that titanium can in fact be vaporized.

And how unlucky for the investigators that they can't provide any cockpit voice recordings it seems since the recorders apparently didn't survive the crash either. But seeing that the whole tail section of the plane apparently vaporized also, no wonder there's no recordings.

[citizenx]

14 Dec 2005, 07:57 am
Twitch
Fanatic Tremekian
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: PCMTL.com
Posts: 741
Twitch's Gallery   Loose Change 9/11 Documentary

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...20890224991194

1 hour documentary about the 9-11 incident. Interesting movie.

One of the point of the video, was that the alleged 757 that hit the pentagon, had engines that were made out of Titanium, and give facts from websites, and from the official engine manufacturer. 1. There was only 3 pieces of identifiable debris found from the plane according to the press. One of which, was a Turbine fan. In 2 of the photos, this turbine fan looks to be no more than 3 feet in diameter. A 757's turbine fan is 9 feet in diameter. 2. Titanium burns at 1684 Degrees celsius. The optimal temperature jet fuel can reach, with as much oxygen as possible, is ~800 degrees celsius. How were the engines destroyed "by the explosion of the jet fuel."? 3. Before the collapse of the wall on the outer ring, the only damage done according to photos, was a 16-foot hole. No wings, no holes from the fuselage, and no holes from the engines. Infact, no engines were ever recorved. These engines can withstand a blast 1 and a half times that magnitude.


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:cBlOJYET59IJ:www.tremek.com/forum/off-topic-chat/16012-loose-change-9-11-documentary.html+%22titanium+burns+at%22&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk 

Not vouching for the correctness of this info., but would like to hear a refutation of this combustion point for titanium and the temp. jet fuel can burn at optimally if anyone has better info.



 

[agentbluescreen]

And how unlucky for the investigators that they can't provide any cockpit voice recordings it seems since the recorders apparently didn't survive the crash either. But seeing that the whole tail section of the plane apparently vaporized also, no wonder there's no recordings.

Well apparently there was nothing much to record because according to the falsified, doctored 575 MPH 280 degree-turn (which is impossible to do with that aircraft even at 400) Flight Data Telemetry Recordings they made the mistake of too-hastily releasing without fully vetting beforehand, the "Flight 77" cockpit door also apparently never opened once throughout the whole "flight". Hanni Hanjour was therefore apparently a terrorist with advanced telekinetic-hijacking powers of some sort.

The reason they had to fabricate the lie of the impossibly too fast turn (that causes the simulator which cannot accurately predict airframe stress wing break-up to roll every time) was that this model of aircraft even completely out of control at maximum throttle and minimum control surface drag, (jet javelin mode) physically cannot accelerate to any speed fast enough (150 MPH beyond it's limit) to "near totally disintegrate" within the remaining post-turn altitude, time and distance.

Not only can no 757 make such a turn at such a speed, no jumbo jet transport aircraft can (thereafter) 'fly' across a lawn at the 'altitude' of a John Deere tractor, at any speed! Without throttles back, flaps up and gear down, (and even then, thrust reversers deployed on contact) below three stories, either jet engine immediately sucks itself and one wing (or the other) into the ground. In order to have caused little damage below 2 stories a 757 would need to come down at at least a 35 degree or steeper angle.

[iks83]

Its kinda late for me to join this *cough* discussion but I would like to respond to some retardedness here.

Hey jimd3100,

Do you have ANY flying experience at all? Not talking riding Delta to your grandmothers house, but bonafide piloting a plane in a real scenario? How about real flight simulators that real pilots train in? I suspect not even close, because if you did, you'd have a clue as to what is possible in flight. I have the flight training pal, and there is no way no how that a commercial airliner hit the Pentagon. IMPOSSIBLE according to the two different flight paths claimed, especially the one that supposedly went over the hotel. At 400-500 knots? Impossible.

Try again jim, you've been suckered in like the rest because your ignorant as to what is possible with an aircraft. That path over the hotel, over the street, WITHOUT hitting any lightpoles that are closest to the Pentagon, and then get low enough to hit the building BELOW the roofline, yet not hit the ground or anything on the ground in the path?  The physics of flight won't allow it. At high speed, you cannot fly that low without it being sucked right down to the ground due to ground effects with the movement of air over the foils. The plane becomes extremely unstable to fly. Cannot be done!

Only non-pilots that have no clue would even try to believe the claims of an airliner hit the Pentagon. I suppose you know better than all the pilots that say no way, eh? Whatever, keep believing your delusions.

Well you have no flying experience at all too. You said you do maintenance on flight simulators which probably means just fiddling with the hydraulics and electronics. Like I do maintenance on a computer. Check what part failed and get a replacement. I have no clue about programming hardware and stuff. So do you program simulators? Do you know the physics that well that go into it? Well I don't know how fast the plane went into the pentagon by heart, and your speed in knots doesn't tell me anything either. I'm not a genius like yourself, I can only handle km/h and with some strain of thought even mph. On another post you brabbled about something impossible below 80 feet. How high is the pentagon again? Is this plane here low enough for you? And fast enough? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26H-WzIe858

This is from the other side.... ok maybe it wasn't that low: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-wA17TF25Y   Still under 80 feet I guess which you say its impossible for a plane to be that fast.

Its no problem for a guided remote controlled plane to hit the pentagon.

What would have happened to the cars on the road if a 757 would flown over at FULL throttle lower than a 30 foot light pole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTY2MG-AgKQ&feature=related

You should go back to elementary school and start all over. Well a 757 weights like 100 tons. So you have a parked plane, breaks on and a car driving behind it. Of course a engine that's supposed to push 100 tons into movement will flip a car when the plane isn't moving. Once it is moving it just needs enough thrust to maintain the speed so it definitely wouldn't flip a car when flying over it. Seriously man you are disqualified from any serious debate. Just like Letsbeunreal who really thought a staged mockumentary about the moon landing was real and posted it as proof. Hah I think we need some new columns on the member page stating who is disqualified from having a serious discussion and why.

I don't care how often you people say its impossible for a plane to do this and that. Its just impossible within the safety regulations and standards. If you wanna fly a huge plane into a building and have no human pilot to worry about you absolutely can fly a huge plane into the pentagon. Why not? What do you have to worry about? If the plane cant take it and breaks apart in midair well then you have burning plane shrapnel coming down. Seriously what is the difference between a plane flying clean into the pentagon, breaking apart in the air over the pentagon, and touching the ground before the pentagon and shrapnelling into the pentagon? If you plan to blame Alkaida for flying planes into buildings you better fly damn planes into buildings. If by any chance they fail to hit you still have lots of destruction and death... except the remote control fails and the pilots took over again well then you have to shoot it down of course.

[adissenter2]

how about bring in a FAA whistleblower on the issue?? hhmmmm? maybe? 

may be not

is this ever about solutions through action?  maybe?

may be not

[Kilika]

Well you have no flying experience at all too. You said you do maintenance on flight simulators which probably means just fiddling with the hydraulics and electronics. Like I do maintenance on a computer. Check what part failed and get a replacement. I have no clue about programming hardware and stuff. So do you program simulators? Do you know the physics that well that go into it?

Don't need to know how to program to fly and know how it's suppose to work. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you put your triangle on the target and press your throttle button, and don't get a tone lock, something's broke. I know how tight a turn a high performance jet can make in relation to a commerical airliner. A 757 can't come close to doing what a fighter jet can do, so I have an even better reference as to what's possible. I know how long it takes for a jet to change course at high speeds. It doesn't happen immediately! You'd be amazed at how much ground you cover at 500mph over say a 2 second time span.

And it's called ground effect. Don't need to know the actual physics of it. It's a known fact of flight dynamics. agent explained to you as well.

As I said, I have never had a pilot's license. Never claimed to have flown a real aircraft. Yes, I DID(1980's) do maintenance on more than one simulator, which involved not just the mainframe computers to the card level(we had an I-level shop that repaired circuit cards), but also I worked on hydralics and pneumatics, eletrical, etc. We had to maintain it all. I suck at programming. I'm lucky if I can put together basic xhtml. I was O-level maintenance definately, though I managed to repair more than one television at the shop just using schematics and an o-scope. I'm far from retarded.

What I also was required to do is daily pre and post flight diagnostic tests of the whole system(ever used a card reader or actually made the cards? I have.), which in part involved doing flight checks and that means actually knowing how to fly the thing so that we could make sure it was really for training. It wasn't a pleasent experience when a squadron showed up and the trainer was down. Lots of brass start screaming! Not sure how many HOURS I logged in the seat, but I it was alot. Quite literally, we had Top Gun pilots come in to make sure it flew accurately to certify it was ready for pilots to train on. I worked on a Air Combat Manuevering simulator for the F-4 and F-14 fighter jets, and later a simulator for the SARS rescue helos. I can say, from personal experience, the Phantom really does fly like a rock. The Tomcat is a limo by comparison.